TVTropes: Internet Backdraft examples I - October 10, 2012

Korodzik Oct 11th, 2012 1,818 Never
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  1. [Anime and Manga]
  3.  * [[SubbingVersusDubbing Subs or dubs]]? Have at it, guys!
  4. ** And even more specifically for subs: translated vs. untranslated terms. Even MORE specifically, bring up TV-Nihon... especially among fans of ''SuperSentai'' and ''Franchise/KamenRider''. Some fans appreciate the leaving in of certain terms for the sake of authenticity, others see untranslated terms as being a case of [[TooLongDidntDub laziness]] and/or being a weeaboo.
  5. * [[ Bill 156]] (NSFW). 4chan, especially /a/, has been ''fuming'' over the ruling, which is understandable, considering the side effects it will cause. (For one, with all suggestive content being removed from shows aimed at children, which is [[ValuesDissonance surprisingly]] [[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids a lot]], several animation studios will be bankrupted from having to relocate outside Tokyo, causing unemployment rates to skyrocket, harming the Japanese economy due to the impact on exporting anime and manga, fueling hostilities between traditionalist and otaku cultures in Japan, leading to civil unrest, and... well maybe it won't be ''that'' bad... or will it?).
  6. ** Looking at [[ the first list of restricted anime and manga]], it seems like it's only going after the worst offenders.
  7. * In general, Anime and Manga and its position when it comes to AnimationAgeGhetto can rile up {{Flame War}}s. On one end, go up to any Anime forum and say any variation of "Anime is nothing more than cartoons from Japan". If you're lucky, you might make it out of there alive before the Anime fan strangles you. Even better, point out that the Japanese themselves don't classify "anime" as different from other forms of animation, and that the "distinction" between Japanese animation and so-called "Western" animation exists primarily in the opinions of the American fans and see how far that gets you.
  8. ** Likewise, go to a non-Anime related forum and simply start a discussion about Anime and Manga, or any given show, and you will get at least one person that will bash you and your taste in media, and that [[AndThatsTerrible you are watching stuff for kids]] or nothing but hentai and naughty tentacles.
  9. ** Also, just causally mention that people in Japan are ''not'' as into Anime/Manga as one would think or that only "Weeaboos" think people in Japan like Anime. If you're lucky, you'll manage to survive with only a few minor burns from the ensuing flames.
  10. *** Better yet, try mentioning that most people in Japan are not fans of Anime in general. Good luck, you're gonna need it.
  11. * Shipping wars. No matter what the fandom, they're never pretty.
  12. * Whether or not any given MagicalGirlWarrior (or really, MagicalGirl in general) series is a ripoff of ''Manga/SailorMoon''.
  13. ** This is especially true if it's ''Manga/WeddingPeach'' — that series is the one that most frequently gets accused of being a ''Manga/SailorMoon'' ripoff, which has made the fandom rather defensive.
  14. ** If you want to get really technical and obscure about it, they all have ''Anime/CuteyHoney'' to thank, not ''Manga/SailorMoon.'' But that's a different war.
  15. * Anything about ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. ''ANYTHING''.
  16. ** Say [[Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion Rebuild]] is better than the original because of the amount of fanservice, especially whilst bashing the original for its [[MindScrew complexity]] around a [[ItsPopularNowItSucks tried and true eva fan,]] and you'd better brace yourself.
  17. * The Great Trowa Rape Debate in the ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamWing'' fandom. Was Trowa raped as a child, thereby explaining [[LonersAreFreaks his withdrawn nature]]? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, don't ask.
  18. ** Speaking of ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamWing Gundam Wing]]'', mention Relena to a YaoiFangirl, and watch her foam at the mouth!
  19. ** If you wanna stir some ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny Gundam SEED Destiny]]'' wank, just ask: Who is Athrun's [[UnwantedHarem One True Love]]? "CAGALLI IS THE ONLY FEMALE GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM [[RealWomenNeverWearDresses BECAUSE SHE'S NOT AN ICKY GIRLY GIRL]]!" -- "Meyrin is just too cute, Cagalli [[{{Chickification}} lost her coolness because she doesn't punch men anymore]] so should die in a fire already!" -- "Meer is a whooooore" -- "Meer is a Woobieeeee!" -- [[YaoiFangirl "He should smooch Kira liekritenao, so stfu!"]]
  20. ** Any remotely-positive comment about ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny Gundam SEED Destiny]]'', its head writer, director, Lacus Clyne and/or Kira Yamato in the vicinity of other series' Gundam fans, especially fans of Gundam in the UC continuity.
  21. *** Mention that you actually like Shinn Asuka, Rey za Burrel, or Gilbert Durandal, and prepare to have people (even on this wiki) rant at you for being an idiot who didn't understand the plot and has crappy taste.
  22. ** In regards to ''Anime/MobileSuitGundam00''... Did [[spoiler:Ali rape Kinue before he killed her]]? Was [[spoiler: Louise's brutal killing of Nena]] justified? [[spoiler: Is Lyle a pale shadow of his twin brother Neil and doesn't deserve the name of "Lockon Stratos"]]? Was [[spoiler: the whole [[FanNickname "pixie dust"]] scene]] an AssPull? Either way, don't ask. ''Really, don't''.
  23. *** ''Gundam 00: Awakening of the Trailblazer''. [[spoiler:Aliens.]] you may enjoy the fire.
  24. ** Never say a bad word about the Universal Century, or point out the Gundams in it are just as "Hax" as some of the ones in other continuities, they will ''Crucify'' you.
  25. ** Also UC related, go on a forum and ask whether or not [[spoiler: Char and Amuro died]] at the end of ''[[Anime/MobileSuitGundamCharsCounterattack Chars Counterattack]]''. This seems to be a particular BerserkButton on MAHQ, mainly because [[NeverHeardThatOneBefore they're tired of hearing it]].
  26. ** Mentioning ''MobileSuitGundamAGE'', especially on /m/, even before the show started ''airing''. Prepare for diatribes about [[MerchandiseDriven toy commercials]] and how Hino and Level 5 make [[VideoGame/InazumaEleven "poorly written schlock"]] that is [[DanballSenki "written for little kids."]]
  27. ** On the other side of the fence, there will be someone wanting to make it like New ''[[Series/BattlestarGalacticaReimagined Battlestar Galactica]]'' or "Insert cynical science fiction here". That tends to drag out a burning debate as there are also people who think trying to be "mature" is bad for gundam.
  28. * The great "is downloading fansubs immoral/evil/going to destroy the animation industry as we know it?" debate in anime fandom. Especially dangerous to mention at Website/AnimeNewsNetwork. And while you're at it, it's also better that you don't mention Creator/{{Geneon}} or ADVFilms as well.
  29. ** And for an entirely different subject concerning fansubs: Mention [=OtaKing=] when discussing (the quality of) fansubs then run, run away unless you're a masochist.
  30. ** Replace "anime fansubs" with "manga scanlations", [[BerserkButton oh dear...]]
  31. ** Now replace "going to destroy" to "is destroying!" Debates occur as to what we can do to prevent SOPA/PIPA/ACTA from getting passed, or how Creator/BandaiEntertainment could've prevented discontinuing anime and manga releases. We'll save you some marshmallows.
  32. * "Is [[Manga/NausicaaOfTheValleyOfTheWind Nausicaa]] wearing pants?"
  33. * Another topic that can start a fight on this wiki if timed badly: ''FullmetalAlchemist'', manga versus anime.
  34. ** To make things worse there are now TWO anime. Which also brings in the whole "remake or not" argument.
  35. ** Scary things can happen if you bring up who to pair Ed with.
  36. ** A surefire way to start some big flames? Mention that you didn't like/hated [[ChaoticNeutral Greed]].
  37. ** Never casually ask whether or not Ed/Winry or Al/Winry is better. Smell the smoke? That's the flames startin'.
  38. ** [[ViewerGenderConfusion "Is Envy a boy or a girl?"]] DO NOT ASK THIS, EVER, if you wish to avoid the flames.
  39. ** Speaking of Greed, just casually asking whether or not [[spoiler:Original!]]Greed is better than [[spoiler:Ling!]]Greed (or vice versa) is bound to start a good-sized flame war.
  40. ** And, now, since the Manga is over, it's pretty easy to start a flame war simply by asking whether or not the ending was the "best thing ever", was "ok, but felt a bit rushed", or if "Mrs. Arakawa [[AssPull pretty much relied on entirely on "Writer Ex Machina"]] and that too many loose ends were never tied."
  41. ** [[TemptingFate Ask what Scar's real name is.]] [[SchmuckBait We dare you.]] Better yet, bring up the fact that Hiromu Arakawa was ''supposed'' to tell us what it was at the end of the Manga...but never did. If you're not roasted alive by flames, you're a very lucky person.
  42. ** In regards to ''[[TheMovie Conqueror of Shamballa]]'', ask whether the "real world" people are or not alternate versions of Greed or Archer. Flames ensue.
  43. ** Want to send just about any anime forum (and some non-anime ones) into apocalyptic rage? Mention that you don't like FMA ''at all''. Bonus points if you compare it to one of [[Manga/{{Naruto}} The]] [[Manga/{{Bleach}} Big]] [[Manga/OnePiece Three]] while doing so.
  44. * Fans of {{Bowdlerise}}d or CutAndPasteTranslation dubs tend to draw a lot of ire. Especially volatile is the debates over the merit of ''Anime/{{Robotech}}''.
  45. ** Even {{Woolseyism}} style translations get targeted. Argue the merits of changing ''Pokémon'' names for other markets and get people who claim the only real names are the Japanese ones.
  46. * The rift between the people who think ''Manga/{{Naruto}} Shippuden'' is good and the people who think it is not. Seriously, sparks start flying whenever someone ''mentions'' the series.
  47. ** Or anything about shipping. Or [[BaseBreaker Sasuke]]. Or Itachi [[spoiler:[[ShockingSwerve really being a good guy]]]]. Or Sakura. Or any main, major, or secondary protagonist. Or ''[[UnpleasableFanbase anything]]''! Seriously, the flames created by the fanbase last longer than Amaterasu's.
  48. ** Go to any anime forum or just post a video on Website/YouTube saying that you don't like ''Naruto'', and then count how much death threats you've just received. For extra vitriolic rage, be sure to include reasons like, "Sasuke is such a one-dimensional character."
  49. ** Mention basically any post-Shippuden event, especially [[spoiler: Hinata's apparent death (Ultimately, she survived)]]. Then sit back, relax, and wonder what on earth possessed you to do such a thing as the entire forum explodes.
  50. ** Who would win in a fight between Itachi and Jiraiya. After [=NaruSaku vs. NaruHina=] [[ShippingWars pairing wars]], it is the most crazed argument on the Internet about Naruto. At least one anime forum has banned discussion of it. The last major Internet backdraft came from some newbie pointing out they had the same total ability scores in the third installment of the money-grabbing 'Databook'.
  51. ** For even greater lulz, bring up how Women are treated on Naruto ''anywhere'', flames will burn - even though most people are in agreement that being a woman in Naruto SUCKS. But there's always going to be the one person that agrees with the treatment of them - they'll send Orochimaru and Madara after them.
  52. *** Go up to the "fandom feminists" and even ''question'' their constant bashing of the female characters ("Sakura is the worst character ever, even worse than Madara and Orochimaru!" "Hinata is a fat and weak bitch who doesn't deserve Naruto!" "All the women in Naruto are (re: useless, whores, bitches, sluts) and should either die or not exist!" "KISHIMOTO HATES WOMEN!") That will be the death of you. Doubly so if you're a female yourself.
  53. ** Asking "Why is Naruto such a crap Anime" on an anime forum gets three different responses; non-fans saying it is, fans saying it isn't and a third group that actually look at the question and point out its foibles & short comings, and try to answer it logically and factually. The first and second group will fight like hell, and the third inevitably joins in, and can take either side. Posting in the form of a question is best as it is open-ended; anyone can add any reason at all to like or dislike it. Also, the resulting {{Flame War}}s can look accidental (almost). For extra rage, toss up ''[[Manga/DragonBall DragonBall Z]]'' or even ''Anime/{{Hamtaro}}'' into the mix, suggesting that they are better animes.
  54. *** Bonus points if you dare to say ''Manga/OnePiece'' is a better than ''Manga/{{Naruto}}''.
  55. ** What, did we forget Shikamaru vs. Hidan? Shikamaru is either a super genius who should be the real protagonist, or a JerkAssStu as well as a walking BrokenAesop ("{{Revenge}} is bad? What's that?"). Hidan is either an FauxAffablyEvil [[LaughablyEvil and hilarious bastard]] who provides great interactions with his partner Kakuzu, or a super CompleteMonster whom you aren't even allowed to appreciate as a character. Put fangirls of these two in the same breathing space and get ready for spectacular InternetBackdraft.
  56. ** Just mention the fight between Sasuke and Deidara. The resulting inferno will have Deidara praising you AS A GOD!!!!!
  57. ** TheReveal that the Rinnegan, the eyes that were exclusive to Nagato at the time [[spoiler:was yet another Sharingan upgrade]] didn't sit well with a lot of fans.
  58. ** It's usually best to never ask anything related to "who would win in a fight?" You will have basically opened to very gates to hell and will be consumed by the ensuing flames for all of eternity while never being able to die and always experiencing the constant searing pain that you have unleashed upon yourself.
  59. * You won't get very far in a ''{{Yu-Gi-Oh}}'' forum without meeting someone who thinks one of the following things ruined the franchise: [[GameBreaker Chaos]], Heroes, Synchros, ''GX'' [[ExecutiveMeddling season 4]], ''GX'' period, ''5D's'' period, too much [[HoYay gay subtext]], not enough gay subtext, Scaling, not Scaling, Netdecking, not Netdecking, Cyberdark Impact, FourKidsEntertainment, all of the above, or everything else. Mentioning the Abridged Series, however, is A-okay.
  60. ** Don't ever pair your OriginalCharacter with any canon character. EVER.
  61. ** Go to any forum that talks about ''GX'' and ask if Yubel was a boy or a girl when he/she was human.
  62. ** Speaking of Yubel, DO NOT bash her/him at FanFictiondotNet [[ or else]]...
  63. ** The Dark Armed Dragon cards still causes controversy to this day.
  64. * In the 5D fandom, being a Crow fan is hell.
  65. ** Also, don't cross paths with faithful Faithshippers!
  66. ** Added: If you do not side with Carly in the [[OfficialCouple Carly]]-[[BodyguardCrush Mikage]]-[[RuleOfThree Stephanie]]-[[CannotSpitItOut Jack]] love pyramid, you have proclaimed to the world you want to die. And that's even ''excluding'' the ''[[YaoiFangirl KingCrab Shippers]]''.
  67. * Go to any ''Manga/OnePiece''-related forum or community and say something about "Zolo". Then run, if you value your skin.
  68. ** The same reaction will occur if you use just about ''any'' of the names of ''anything'' from the 4Kids version.
  69. ** Say that ''Bleach'' or ''Naruto'' have better art. And the flames will be there for long.
  70. ** For that matter, saying that One Piece isn't the best {{shonen}} series and that it has its share of flaws is likely to land you flames.
  71. ** Even ''implying'' that you think one character may have a serious thing for another, even for non-insane or [[MostFanficWritersAreGirls non-fanbratty reasons]], often guarantees trouble. It doesn't matter if you're not even really a shipper; you're still going to upset at least some people who seriously hate the idea of romance in the story.
  72. ** Is "haki" a new kind of {{Mana}} or just PureAwesomeness applied to willpower?
  73. * ''Anime/BlueGender'' is the source of much backdraft. Mention it on [[ImageBoards /a/]], it turns into a flame war between people who think it's a mindless ripoff of ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' and people who loved it because it had [[{{Fanservice}} boobs]] and HumongousMecha. Mention it on [[GameFAQs Other Titles]], and you get trolled for not blindly hating anything made by [[Anime/MDGeist Koichi]] [[Anime/{{Genocyber}} Ohata]], or watching something that isn't from the current season.
  74. * Attempt to debate the morality (or lack thereof) of '''any''' character in ''Anime/CodeGeass'' (except maybe the cat), and you're sure to see some fireworks. Alternately, compare Lelouch to [[Manga/DeathNote Light Yagami]], Suzaku to [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED Kira Yamato]], or say that you enjoyed the Ashford-centric episodes.
  75. ** Debates on who is the best pilot (Specifically Suzaku vs Kallen) tend to end in flame wars. ''Especially'' regarding their final battle in the GrandFinale.
  76. ** Or say you like ''R2'' / think it's as good as the original.
  77. ** So, is Lelouch ''really'' [[spoiler: dead]]?
  78. ** Rolo Lamperouge. Shirley Fenette. You like the first? You're a stupid, [[HetIsEw woman-hating]] YaoiFangirl who cheers for him [[spoiler: killing Shirley]] and [[DracoInLeatherPants overlooks his tremendous flaws because he's a]] {{Bishonen}}. You like the latter? You're a delusional fanbrat who twists Shirley into a PuritySue [[RelationshipSue perfect girlfriend for]] Lulu Baby and hates Rolo for [[spoiler: killing Lulu's One True Love]]. You like them both? '''''YOU DON'T EXIST, PERIOD'''''.
  79. ** Episode 14 of R2 is a '''huge''' point of contention. Was Lelouch really justified in [[spoiler: massacring the children and the non-combatants of the Geass Cult]], possibly as a ShootTheDog scenario? Was he doing this merely as a show of power or a hissy-fit over [[spoiler: Shirley's death at Rolo's hands]]? Did he truly cross the MoralEventHorizon? And what about [[spoiler: the kids themselves - were they innocent victims of their horrid surroundings, or were they already beyond salvation so there truly was no other thing to do]]? Ask any of these questions and you'll have either rabid Lelouch fangirls/fanboys baring their teeth [[DracoInLeatherPants at the suggestion that their "pretty Lulu Baby" isn't a poor perfect angel]], or rabid Lelouch haters screaming that [[RonTheDeathEater he was an horrible monster without any chance of redemption]].
  80. * LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya: un-socialized JerkWithAHeartOfGold, or serial sexual abusing sociopath and insane EldritchAbomination?
  81. ** And speaking of the franchise rather than its eponymous character, Kadokawa supposedly trolling the ''Haruhi'' fan base, what with the rerun news and the Website/YouTube Nice Boat incident, has left much of the Internet in rage.
  82. ** Endless Eight has careened right into this category, eclipsing the "morality of Haruhi" as the most polarizing subject on the series.
  83. ** Is this a dancing anime?
  84. * Do ''not'' mention [[Manga/FushigiYuugi Nuriko's sexuality]], especially in terms of his dealings with Miaka. Or the subject of whether or not Miaka counts as a CanonSue. The resulting wank will give you a headache.
  85. ** Even better/worse: Mention Nakago. Then RUN AWAY.
  86. * ''Manga/{{Hellsing}}'' TV series. Just say those 3 words on a ''Hellsing'' forum, and wackiness ensues. Try saying that it's better than the {{OVA}}s, that there should've been a second season, the characters were better and the other media ruined them, etc. There used to be a very vocal TV fanbase, but most of them disappeared after OVA III (the series split its continuity before that part).
  87. ** Oh, and say that [[{{Bifauxnen}} Integra]] is a nice guy, but a bit too feminine for a man. It always divides fans between humorous and irate. Mostly irate.
  88. ** Also, just casually mention [[ShipToShipCombat Alucard/Integra VS Seras/Integra VS Alucard/Seras]] and see what happens. On second thought, don't.
  89. ** Do NOT under any circumstances ask if ''Manga/{{Hellsing}}'' could be considered a direct sequel to ''{{Dracula}}''. Just. Don't. Some fans will say "yes" and point to all the similarities between the two, while others will say that it's an AU storyline, but not a direct sequel to the novel...and then others will just say that the only thing in common are the characters. No two fans will fully agree with the other on this.
  90. ** If you're really brave, compare ''Manga/{{Hellsing}}'' to ''Manga/VampireHunterD'' and wait for the imminent fan base explosion on both sides to happen.
  91. ** "Does Integra become a vampire at the end?" It's best '''not''' to ask...
  92. * Whether the battle between [[Anime/DigimonAdventure Gatomon]] should be with Patamon or Veemon. Forums taking one side or the other are still going, and fanfiction of both sides are still written, despite the season featuring it has been over for years. And that's not even throwing [[MoralityPet Wizard]][[PlatonicLifePartners mon]] into the mix.
  93. ** Yolei's DistantFinale. To an extension, anything from GrandFinale except Ken's future, which managed to be the only one with high levels of awesome.
  94. ** Speaking of ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'', calling it a ripoff of ''Pokémon'' (it's very different, and whether it is a ripoff at all remains to be debated).
  95. ** Many people, though Youtube commenters in general, see the SuperSentai Anime/DigimonFrontier, {{Shounen}} Anime/DigimonSavers, and SuperRobot Anime/DigimonXrosWars and shout "TheyChangedItNowItSucks!" This has filled the comments box of Youtube videos showing, say, Xros Wars's final battle with "[[SmallReferencePools OMG ITS JUST]] {{TRANSFORMERS}}!"
  96. * ''Manga/AxisPowersHetalia''... A funny and original way to introduce young people to World History? A stupid waste of paper that runs only on yaoi fanservice? A shame to the Japanese society as a whole? A racist, offensive trivialization of WWII? Sit down, ask fans and anti-fans their thoughts on it, and watch the wank roll.
  97. ** Special mention goes to "[[MemeticMutation those]] [[UsefulNotes/SouthKorea Koreans]]!" Since some Korean netizens have been ''very vocal'' about their hatred of it, many Hetalia wanks are tinged with anti-Korean sentiments.
  98. ** Or bring it up to someone who plays in panfandom journal-style [=RPs=], regardless of whether they like Hetalia or not. Unless they play a Hetalia character themselves, be prepared to sit back and listen to a lot of ranting and raving about how Hetalia has totally taken over/ruined their game.
  99. ** The ShipToShipCombat is getting bigger and bigger. With the expected {{flame war}}s. America/England vs. Russia/America vs. France/England vs. England/Japan vs. England/Portugal? Greece/Japan vs. Greece/Turkey? Hungary/Austria vs. Hungary/Prussia vs. Hungary/Turkey vs. Hungary/Romania vs. Hungary/Poland? Russia/Lithuania vs. Poland/Lithuania? Poland/Lithuania vs. Poland/Ukraine? Germany/Prussia vs. Germany/North Italy vs. Germany/Austria? China/Japan vs. China/Taiwan vs. Taiwan/Japan vs. Taiwan/Hong Kong? Spain/Romano vs. Spain/Belgium vs. Spain/Netherlands? France/Canada vs. Prussia/Canada vs. Canada/Cuba? Sweden/Finland vs. Sweden/Denmark? Denmark/Norway vs. Norway/Iceland vs. Hong Kong/Iceland? America/England vs. EVERY other ship? Pick your poison. (The last one in particular has caused more wank than all the other combats put together.)
  100. ** Then there was the ''tsunami'' of internet outrage when a group of Germany, Prussia and Austria cosplayers did a Nazi salute just ''minutes'' from a Holocaust memorial. [[FeeFiFauxPas On Passover]]. This is not helping ''anyone's'' case any AT ALL.
  101. *** Evidence on this can still be found on LiveJournal in the Hetalia community, since this happened at the start of April 2009.
  102. ** Try asking about the countries personified as females in a discussion on gender roles. Watch both sides tear each other apart in arguing whether Hetalia is sexist or not to its females, or even if the countries they represent have as much significance as "First World" nations like America. [[TakeAThirdOption Taking a third option]] might also not be very wise if the particular discussion is already heated.
  103. *** Even better if you discuss the girls in regards to ShippingWars. Is it valid to have them paired up, or would it kill their personalities? Do they become insta {{Relationship Sue}}s if they have boyfriends and would be better off alone - and preferently, ''[[HetIsEw completely]]'' [[HetIsEw out of the picture]] (so the boys can bone each other better)? ''Which'' guy should be The Chosen One? (re: Hungary/Austria vs. Hungary/Prussia vs. Hungary/Romania, Taiwan/Japan vs. Taiwan/Hong Kong vs. Taiwan/Korea vs. Taiwan/China, Belgium/Netherlands vs. Belgium/Spain vs. Belgium/Romano)? And what about LesYay: a convenient third option to have both girls ''and'' slashy goodness, or mere fetishization and oversexualisation? Oh, giiiiiiiirl.
  104. ** Mention the old version of the main storyline's third chapter, (''G-R Nonaggression Pact?''). See Russian and German fans tear each other down over the ''original'' one [[OldShame which Himaruya deleted and remade]] because of the UnfortunateImplications.
  105. ** ''Botticelli's Erotic Painting'': Post the translated strips to this old deleted story or ask people their opinions on its content. The fans will tear each other down over whether it was a satire on the effect of banning erotica, if the author was using it as an excuse to showcase a {{Shotacon}} fantasy, or if it's okay to be offended or not in general. France and Spain's behavior alone in the strip is also a very divisive matter among fans as to whether it should still be counted as "canon" or not.
  106. ** Now that the dub cast has been released, ask about VicMignogna being cast as [[BiTheWay Greece.]] Have fun by watching {{Yaoi Fangirl}}s screaming atop of their lungs and dissolving in utter, incoherent, but more or less understandable rage, considering Vic's... "polemic" stance on his characters' sexualities ([[HaveIMentionedIAmHeterosexualToday "They like girls, like I do!"]]).
  107. *** On that note, Vic in general can be a rather... controversial topic. Either he's an absolutely awesome voice actor who should be revered and is always right even when he's not, or he is an absolutely horrible gayhater of a monster who should die and NEVER touch the {{Yaoi Fangirl}}s' fandoms. Try to TakeAThirdOption, such as explaining that people are allowed to ship (and do in RealLife) whatever they want, he just always chooses to interpret his characters as straight (even with all the UnfortunateImplications coming from ''that'', and specially applied to {{CLAMP}} works where EveryoneIsBi), and enjoy being eaten alive by both sides.
  108. *** Once the dub voice of England was released, the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks outrage over the dub voices grew]], along with rage against liberties in the script and [=FUNimation=] calling him "Britain" (by request of the Japanese publisher), which is technically correct, but fandom has gotten used to calling him England. Asking about his voice or the name change will only generate more of a FlameWar.
  109. *** The dub itself has become a [[RatedMForMoney controversial subject]] of discussion due to its massive script rewrites which [=FUNimation=] claimed were necessary and [[CrossesTheLineTwice "purposely offensive"]] to reach a wider audience. The results of bringing up this subject are a lot more loaded than any {{Shipping}} debate; The Hetalia fans that love the dub, the fans that hate the dub, and even the haters of Hetalia itself will tear each other to shreds.
  110. ** Even within the fandom, the question of where to draw the line can get heated. When it comes to real warfare, natural disasters, political strife; what is or isn't appropriate cosplay attire; even the shipping of nations with especially bloody histories (such as Germany/Poland, China/Japan), there is no easy answer.
  111. * Go to a ''Manga/{{Berserk}}'' [[ forum populated mostly by guys]] and declare that you think Griffith is gay or bisexual and prepare to have people defend his manly honor (and don't even ''think'' about mentioning Guts). Mention that you think Griffith ''isn't'' gay on a [[LiveJournal forum populated mostly by girls]] and watch the heads roll as they accuse you of being homophobic and/or hating yaoi as a whole, no matter what your stance on RealLife LGBQT businesses are.
  112. ** Or call Casca a whore and see what happens.
  113. * Talk about [[FourKidsEntertainment 4Kids]]. Period. If you have a death wish, mention that you don't think the dub of [insert any show that 4Kids worked on here] was all that bad and/or that the [[FanDumb fans are dumb]] for getting so worked up over something so stupid. Even the most civilized board or chat room will dogpile you.
  114. ** God forbid if you even mention you like the dubs even for nostalgic sentimental value.
  115. *** Out of all of those, there is one in particular that even the mentioning of can be considered a form of suicide. Say that you like the 4Kids dub of ''Manga/OnePiece''. You. Will. DIE.
  116. *** That said, mentioning that ''[[Anime/KinnikumanNisei Ultimate Muscle]]'' or ''TMNT 2k3'' were ok will normally pass without incident.
  117. ** The 4Kids website has forums, one of which is Sonic based.
  118. * ''Anime/LuckyStar''. Just ''mention'' it on the wrong forum and the flames will start flying.
  119. ** "Like ''Lucky Star''? [[FanHater You're LUCKY you're not banned for STUPID!]]"
  120. * ''Manga/{{Kannagi}}'' fanboys apparently don't like the idea of their favorite female character having a boyfriend. And God FORBID that you even SUGGEST that she's not a virgin. Seriously, [[ read this shit (but be warned of the NWS ads)]]. It's pathetic.
  121. ** Show this article to any feminist forum, and see a flaming debate between otaku feminists and non-otaku ones.
  122. * Something similar happened in reaction to episode 9 of ''Anime/PantyAndStockingWithGarterbelt'', all because Stocking (gasp!) ''dared'' to fall in love! [[spoiler:With a Ghost, no less.]] It's rather ironic that ''she's'' labeled as a slut for that, all while Panty gets to sleep with almost anything with a Y chromosome.
  123. ** Speaking of ''Panty And Stocking'', mention anything about [[spoiler:TheStinger]] and prepare to run. FAST.
  124. * Mention that any ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' villain is better than Dio and flames are the least of your worries. Better yet, suggest that Kira Yoshikage or Diego Brando are better specifically and have fun.
  125. * Go to any ''Manga/DeathNote''-related site or forum, and dare to say you liked it when [[spoiler:L died]]. The fangirls will rip your legs apart if you don't run away fast enough.
  126. ** Say that you didn't mind the ending or that you like any bit of the dreaded second arc. Watch out for the flamethrowers.
  127. ** Call Light "Raito". Now watch the angry replies flood in. For added psychotic fan response, call L "Eru".
  128. ** There are a [[BlackAndGreyMorality load]] [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation of]] [[BrokenBase reasons]] you should never take a side in a Kira vs. L debate.
  129. ** Also, never mention that you don't see what the big fuss is over [[EnsembleDarkhorse Matt.]] Trying to ship him with anyone other than Mello is often asking for trouble, too.
  130. *** And in some communities, mentioning you like Matt will often get you labeled a stupid, shallow YaoiFangirl. Strange how such a small character can be a BaseBreaker.
  131. ** In some places, if you dare to mention you like Misa Amane, you'll be eaten alive by her haters and the "feminist fans". (Who coincidentally [[DoubleStandard forgive all the shit that L and Light pull on others]] while screaming that Misa is a dumb whore who must die.)
  132. ** Try asking whether or not Near was a good character or simply a shoddy knock-off of L. No two fans will agree.
  133. ** Do '''not''' ask if the "Nameless Shinigami" featured at the beginning of the ''Relight'' special is Light or not. Some fans will argue that WordOfGod stated that there is no afterlife whereas other fans will argue that "reincarnation" doesn't count as an afterlife and therefore Light could've become a Shinigami. Likewise, are the similarities between the two proof that it's Light or is it just a coincidence? Trying to ask/answer this will result in massive flames.
  134. ** Just saying you don't like Death Note in general is enough to warrant fandom rage.
  135. * Depending on the Yuri Forum you're in, mentioning ''KannazukiNoMiko'' can lead to the internet reaching through your computer screen and slapping you.
  136. ** This is specially huge if you ask people their opinion on [[WhamEpisode Episode 8]] (where [[spoiler: Chikane rapes Himeko right before her FaceHeelTurn]]) and the GrandFinale (where [[spoiler: we learnt that she "only" raped Himeko [[ThePlan to nullify her VirginPower and "save" her from being erased of existence]]]]) Either you think her overall intentions gave her an at least understandable reason to reach such an extreme, or you believe it's said intentions were just an AssPull to give her a KarmaHoudini over something that a male (like [[spoiler: Souma]]) would surely get slammed to death for.
  137. * Go to virtually any ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha'' Forum and just bring up the slightest hint of Yuuno and Nanoha, half the board will cheer you, half of it will attempt to murder you over the Internet.
  138. ** More like 99% will attempt to murder you over the Internet.
  139. ** Animesuki has actually calmed down and now accepts most pairings save OC/CC except in rare situations.
  140. ** Mentioning the "[[FanNickname White Devil Incident]]" in Episode 8 of [[MagicalGirlLyricalNanohaStrikerS StrikerS]] can get you flamed if you lean too heavily in favor of Nanoha or Teana.
  141. ** Do you ever '''dare''' say that you don't like the Nanoha franchise and/or don't think it's '''the bestest MagicalGirl franchise ever'''. For a bonus, compare Nanoha to Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica, and then RUN THE FUCK AWAY.
  142. ** Try making a Nanoha vs. anybody else fight and do not side with Nanoha... Don't even try running, no matter what you do, you're gonna get befriended. Apparently, Nanoha is more powerful than a Celestial.
  143. * ''Never'' defend the ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'' anime and ''never'' say the first season was not the best. And for the record never ''ever'' compare the anime to the manga, or you and your entire family and anyone who ''knows'' you will be crucified.
  144. ** Unless you're begging for hurt, don't mention shipping. No matter who you think Ash ends up with, someone is going to beat you to a pulp for it in favor of another ship. It's gotten better as of late, but it's still dangerous territory.
  145. ** Bring up Ash's Pidgeot; it is a sore spot with many fans.
  146. *** On a similar note - Dawn's Ambipom. More specifically, the infamous "Ping Pong" episode in which she's PutOnABus.
  147. ** If you call Lucario, Arcanine, Rotom, or Zoroark a legendary, you WILL get flamed.
  148. *** Speaking of Lucario, go ahead and say that he looks cool. [[EnsembleDarkhorse Mewtwo]] fans will eat you.
  149. *** Actually mentioning Lucario is a sore spot for many a Mewtwo fan, most likely stemming from the fact Lucario "replaced" Mewtwo in SuperSmashBros. Actually don't mention that either.
  150. ** Never ask which season was the best/worst. Some fans will argue that only the first few seasons are the best, others say it GrewTheBeard after the Johto League. Still others will say that only seasons related to the games are the best, while others argue that it's the side-seasons that have the best plots.
  151. ** Ask which genders you think any of the main characters' Pokémon are...yes, even the ones whose genders are already confirmed in the series.
  152. ** Try going onto ''any'' Pokémon forum and asking if the movies are canon to the main series. Go on. Ask.
  153. *** All the movies except 6, 9, 12, and 13 (plus the pre-Chronicles specials) are confirmed by the main anime.
  154. ** "Who would win in a fight between Pokémon and [[Franchise/{{Digimon}} Digimo-]] OH, GOD THE FLAMES! THEY BURN!"
  155. ** Misty. Never mention her. Ever. Or face an explosion of her fans coming in to defend her and ripping into May or Dawn (both at the same time, sometimes) and watch the board explode with flames and arguments.
  156. ** [[BerserkButton Was Tracey a good character?]]
  157. *** ''Is Brock just dark-skinned or a black person?''
  158. ** Team Rocket's characterization in the Unova episodes. 'nuff said.
  159. ** Tobias. Is he a CanonSue for using [[spoiler:both a Darkrai and a Latios]]? Is he an underrated character who just wasn't given the chance to have a good backstory? Or, is his use of [[spoiler:two Legendaries]] an awesome CurbStomp battle against Ash? Good luck getting people to not get into a flame war over this.
  160. *** Likewise, the very ''concept'' of trainers now using Legendaries is become a very touchy subject for the fandom.
  161. * Call Usagi "Bunny" or "Serena", Makoto "Lita", or Haruka "Amara" or "Alex" to '''any''' ''SailorMoon'' board/fan. Although it's dying off through the older fans (the ones that watched since the first airing in their countries or so), the younger ones are prone to a very destroying fit of nerd rage.
  162. ** Now that Toei is ''finally'' licensing the show again, wars over the Canadian ''SailorMoon'' dub are starting up again. FUNimation has made it clear that they want to license it and do a new dub, though they've yet to announce any plans. This inevitably leads to fights over whether a new dub, restoring the mountains of censorship and missing content for fans of ''SailorMoon'' that prefer dubbing, is a boon to the show or the greatest evil to commit on fans that grew up on the old dub.
  163. ** [[SpellMyNameWithAnS Names]]. The franchise used a lot of foreign loan words and went through so many fan and official translations that even translations ''trying'' to be faithful never agreed on them. This leads to serious fan fights as people argue over what to call every character, item, and power.
  164. ** DieForOurShip? ''Never dies''. Mamoru/Usagi vs. Seiya/Usagi? These ''still'' go on and on a decade later...
  165. * TsubasaReservoirChronicle. This should be enough said, but the amount of fan wank that persists over the series is ridiculous. Heaven forbid should you mention that [=KuroFai=] is canon (by CLAMP's standards anyway) in front of a [=KuroTomoyo=] fan [[spoiler:(for those not read CCS, Tomoyo is canon in love with Sakura)]] or in front of a [=FaiChii=] shipper [[spoiler:(the latter who is a 'clone' of Fai's mother)]] you will get torn apart. Then point out to them [[spoiler:that Tomoyo is a lesbian and Chii is Fai's mother.]]
  166. ** And that's without even wading into the backdraft a particular [[VicMignogna dub voice actor]] put himself into when he took on the CLAMP fans by telling them Fai wasn't gay, and that Fai obviously liked girls like him. Without researching the character, and without reading the manga first. Said VA also used religion as his backdrop for his "Fai is straight" claim, and claimed that ''he asked CLAMP themselves about Fai's sexuality'', something most people doubt has ever happened since the members of CLAMP do not speak English.
  167. *** When you have [[ two separate]] [[ tags]] in the [[ CLAMP Rants LJ comm]] claiming how much you suck, you know you've fucked up big time with CLAMP LJ fandom.
  168. ** Bring up how the TV anime wasn't a complete and total mess and you'll more than likely be told to bugger off back to ''Anime/{{Noir}}'' and enjoy the [[ViewersAreGeniuses perceived]] [[JigsawPuzzlePlot lack of story]] therein.
  169. * Projects between two or more major anime (for example, showing a ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' opening with a ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'' song, or a ''Manga/OnePiece'' AMV with a ''Naruto'' song) tend to invite trouble, as people inevitably start comparing the two in the discussions, with most favoring one over the other(s). It gets even worse when people do crossovers, or pose the question, "If (Character from Series A) fights (Character from Series B), who would win?" (and sometimes even when the question is about two characters from the same series).
  170. * [[Manga/{{Bleach}} Ishiruki, Ishihime, Ichiruki, and Ichihime all equally]] just some not as loudly as others, all the ships are wanktastic. Or any pairings that don't really fall nice in certain fans' ears. See the flamewars between each coupling's fans, and heavily bashing. BTW, to the most hardcore ones, any pairing might make these throw raging fits. Oh, and say Chad is the worst character you've ever seen, and that he should be more of a pervert, and even some people that ''don't'' like ''Bleach'' will want to burn you alive.
  171. ** Orihime- even beyond whether she should be with Ichigo- is quite a touchy subject, as any post about her is liable to anger either the part of the Bleach fandom that thinks that she is a wonderful person who has endured so much, who can't do anything wrong (even when she acknowledges herself as flawed) and whom no one should ever dare question, or the part that sees her as a DamselScrappy who is unable to do anything without Ichigo and should be killed for the sake of "feminism", uhm, the story. Say something like that you think Orihime is a good person, but is deprived of opportunities to prove herself or help her friends, and you're likely to offend both.
  172. *** We also dare you to suggest that [[ShipToShipCombat she and Rukia aren't OMG RIVALS for Ichigo's heart.]] See the [[VocalMinority most rabid Rukia]] [[StrawFeminist fangirls]] unleash their anger at the mere suggestion that their PossessionSue version of Rukia isn't 1000 times better than the "anti feminist", "stupid", "slutty" and "big breasted" Orihime bitch. And if you remind them that Rukia and Orihime are ''friends'' in canon and care for each other very much ([[LesYay or more, according to some]])... you're deader than dead.
  173. ** Likewise, say anything at all about Ulquiorra. If you say you hate him, then his rabid fangirls unleash ALLCAPSRAEG about how he's just a lonely, sensitive soul and kicks a lot of ass. Say you like him, and the haters spell out how he's an emotionless jackass that mentally tortures Orihime for the evulz. And God help you if you say you love/hate Ulquihime.
  174. ** Head to a mainly male board and express how you think Zaraki is secretly screwing Byakuya, or suggest the possibility of an Eleventh Company-wide orgy. They will go mad. Extra points if you say that Kenpachi and Nnoitra would make a good couple.
  175. *** Head to a mainly female board and say the opposite: that HoYay doesn't exist, it's all wishful thinking, and no one should ever be gay. Expect your death in ten, nine, eight...
  176. ** If you mention any shipping-related opinion apart from a pro-[=IchiRuki=] one in an Ending 19 posting on Website/YouTube, you will get many thumbs down, particularly if you point out how much [=IchiRuki=] subtext is anime-only.
  177. ** Don't ask about ethnicity in ''Bleach'', especially in the case of Yoruichi. What's especially disturbing about this is the number of people who don't just disagree, but are violently opposed, '''offended''' in fact, at the suggestion [[AmbiguouslyBrown that Yoruichi may be black.]] [[UnfortunateImplications Wonder what their problem is?]]
  178. * ''Anime/CorrectorYui''. The manga/anime had so many divided opinions that if you ever bring such name in certain anime forums, there'll be the ones that liked both seasons, ones that only liked one of them, and the ones that despise Corrector Yui like it's a 4-Kids dub, but made in Japan. To have a slight idea, even in Japan such backdraft happens, and some manage to call Yui an "indecent harlot", and say that was Kia Asamiya's second biggest error (some of them claim that his biggest error was to convert {{Batman}} into a manga, without the things that would make ''normal'' Japanese people think he was a villain).
  179. * Just try to go into any ''Manga/MahouSenseiNegima'' or ''MaiHime'' fan board and say you don't like Natsuki/Shizuru and/or Konoka/Setsuna pairings, regardless of your overall sexual views. Or that you like Yuiichi Tate and Shiho Munakata. Or that you like the Hime manga, in which, among other changes, Natsuki is pursuing Yuuichi instead of a CelibateHero who may return Shizuru's feelings for her. Or any of the ''Negima'' anime adaptations (other than the Ala Alba/Another World {{OVA}}s). On second thought, you'd better not, for your own sake.
  180. ** Heaven help you if you bring up ''Negima'''s LiveActionAdaptation...
  181. * How do you properly pronounce [[Manga/DragonBall Saiyan]] again? This question can be used to unlock the gates of Hell.
  182. ** Or "Kaioken" for that matter.
  183. ** Never under ''any'' circumstance ask what the scouter says about '''anyone's''' power level, no matter [[MemeticMutation how famous]] [[OverNineThousand the answer may be.]]
  184. ** Never ask which ''Manga/{{Dragonball}}'' cast is the best. You will be set upon by the Ocean dub fans, the FUNimation dub fans, and those who think original Japanese with subtitles is the only way to go. Don't worry too much though. They'll quickly forget about you the original poster once they turn on each other.
  185. ** Don't make the mistake of confusing [[ViewerGenderConfusion Frieza's gender]].
  186. *** Also, don't ever say that you prefer Linda Young to Chris Ayres or '''''Nakao Ryusei'''''.
  187. ** Also, never ask which one of Majin Buu's forms is the strongest, Super Buu or Kid Buu (Fat Buu is out of discussion).
  188. ** Just mention that you like {{Dragonball GT}} to most fans of the original series and watch the fireworks explode.
  189. *** Also say to them that you like the live action movies, and prepare to take cover from the explosion of fan rage and hatred that follows.
  190. ** Of the Goku/Vegeta fusions, we have the classic debate, "Who's stronger, Gogeta or Vegito?".
  191. ** For Spanish speakers, never use in a Dragon Ball forum the expression [[CutAndPasteTranslation "super warriors"]] when referring to Saiyans. Most Latin Americans will side against you, most Catalonians will join your side.
  192. ** Superman vs. Goku. It's opening up a can of worms.
  193. ** Ask who does a better job of voicing Kid/Teen Gohan in the Funimation dub, Stephanie Nadolny (DBZ) or Colleen Clinkenbeard (Kai), then run and don't look back.
  194. ** It's wise not to bring up ''DragonballEvolution'' under any circumstances.
  195. * Another from /a/: ''LightNovel/{{Toradora}}''. Use a tripcode for extra effect, and if you know Taiga's, then congratulations! You have the key of hell's gates.
  196. * It is not wise to bring up ''Kodomo no Jikan'' anywhere, except perhaps for /c/.
  197. * And on /m/ you're best not [[FanWank to bring up]] whether or not Yoko from ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' "counts" as a main character.
  198. ** People who like Kamina get bashed for being fanboys. People who like Simon get bashed for not recognising how GAR Kamina is. Don't bring up the possibility of Viral being a better character. And don't you even ''think'' of mentioning Rossiu either.
  199. ** Try this: [[HypeBacklash post that you don't like the series at all]].
  200. * Post an [[{{Netorare}} NTR]] pretty much anywhere on 4chan. /h/ is optimal, but it'll get a reaction even in /a/.
  201. ** Alternately, post Manga/{{Yotsuba}} porn. '''Especially''' that one doujin where she's aged up. Even ''/d/'' will come after you.
  202. ** {{Toonami}} is pretty much a taboo subject on 4chan nowadays since the users there would rather be seen as complete social pariahs than allowing the hobby to become popular.
  203. * Do not suggest that Japanese toy company Yamato has bad quality control, or that equally Japanese toy company Bandai makes better [[SuperDimensionFortressMacross Macross]] toys than Yamato on the [[ MacrossWorld forums]]. You're likely to get flamed for it. The truth is that Yamato has ongoing quality-control problems (since, like, 10 years), which tend to result in major breakages on multi-hundred-dollar toys and an on-going business in replacement parts, and of which [[FanDumb the fans are simply in total denial]].
  204. ** The mere mention of [[MacrossFrontier Ranka Lee]] can send half the ''Frontier'' fans in incontrollable hategasms. This would be funny to watch if not for them [[KickTheDog being assholes to]] [[MegumiNakajima her seiyuu]] [[KickTheDog as well]].
  205. ** The wanky reputation of the Frontier fandom is NOT helped by a massive case of [[ false information released by a former BNF]]. Discussing the canonicity of this, that, and whatever can bring up pretty brutal flame wars.
  206. * Thanks to Gorespammer's ''long'' trolling/reverse-trolling campaign, it has become virtually impossible to seriously discuss ''LightNovel/{{Bakemonogatari}}'' on /a/.
  207. ** As well as questioning the state of anime and how it has gotten "stale". You will be considered pathetic.
  208. * Also Visual Novel Adaptations like ''VisualNovel/{{CLANNAD}}'' and ''VisualNovel/UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' are impossible to discuss without an image spammer scouring the thread.
  209. * When ''VisualNovel/UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' was adapted from a series of sound novels into an anime, it was received pretty negatively among fans of the original. Just try and go on any forum or even Website/YouTube comments and mention that you thought the anime was alright. Or better yet, say that the anime is ''superior'' than the sound novels, or anything positive about Studio Deen.
  210. ** ''HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi'' gets hit with this too, but not as often or intensely.
  211. *** It also suffers from a shipping war amongst Rena/Keiichi and Mion/Keiichi fans.
  212. * Go find any ''KatekyoHitmanReborn'' fans that you can, and casually bring up whether 8059 is better than 5927 or not.
  213. ** Do not ever mention any pairing on any ''Reborn!'' related forum, if you want to stay alive.
  214. * BangZoom! Enterntainment CEO Eric P. Sherman started a massive InternetBackdraft when he [[ commented]] that Bang Zoom! would stop dubbing anime in 2011 without fan support and that the anime industry is dying. It also sparked the old SubbingVersusDubbing debate again due to the fact that he blamed fansubs for this.
  215. ** Creator/BandaiEntertainment did [[ ease the backdraft a bit]] saying that his comments doesn't relate to the state of the anime industry except for the cease dubbing part and Bandai might resort to releasing sub-only anime if this continues.
  216. * Want to start a FlameWar amongst the ''Manga/SoulEater'' fans? Just mention you don't like/hate [[EnsembleDarkhorse Death The Kid]].
  217. ** [[ViewerGenderConfusion "Is Chrona]] [[AmbiguousGender a boy or girl?"]] And...cue the ensuing flame war.
  218. ** Speaking of Kidd, the [[ShipToShipCombat shipping wars]] that ensue whenever someone asks who he should pair up with certainly applies. Some say he should be with Maka, others claim he'd be best with Chrona (which brings up the split of boy!Chrona vs girl!Chrona), and still ''others'' claim he's best with either Liz/Patti (or possibly both). Add in [[HoYay people who ship him with Black* Star and/or Soul]] and you're pretty much in a metaphorical land mine on this one.
  219. ** And, for heaven's sake, ''don't'' bring up the possibility he's asexual. Don't. Just... Don't, more like symmetrisexual.
  220. ** And what about [[spoiler: his FaceHeelTurn]]? ... [[TemptingFate Whoops.]]
  221. ** Medusa: CompleteMonster or MagnificentBitch? Aaaaand cue another flame war.
  222. ** Say "Soul Eater ripped off Harry Potter". Do it. '''I dare you.''' You will set the entire internet ablaze, and the fandom will call you a heretic/bastard/other unspeakable things.
  223. ** Excalibur can be seen as a hilarious character, or the most annoying in anime, depending on who you talk to.
  224. * Try mentioning ''Manga/OnePiece'', ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' or ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'' on /a/ and be sure to get the thread filled with fan-base bashing and tacky jokes.
  225. ** /a/ has already given up on this in official translations, but is it {{Macekre}} or {{Woolseyism}} when a fansubbing group translates around {{honorifics}}? The flame will burn forever.
  226. * In the [[ProjectAKo Project A-ko]] fandom, bringing the main girls' sexual orientation into question will lead to a [[FanWank long debate between the fans]], with opinions ranging from "They're totally lesbians who want to get into each other's panties" to "They're perfectly straight girls who simply haven't found their men, you sick fuck." Also, any topic with C-ko as the main focus may cause a stir, especially if it's sexual, due to being [[TheScrappy the most]] [[BaseBreaker controversial character]] in the series.
  227. * Do you prefer a [[TomboyAndGirlyGirl feminine anime girl over a tomboyish one]]? Never say it, even if you ARE fond of both of them and just happen to like the girly girl better. The "feminist fans" will immediately accuse you of stuff like "hating on strong women", "fetishizing females", "being a horny and sexist fanboy" (even if you're ''female''), [[RealWomenNeverWearDresses "setting back feminism 50 years"]], etc.
  228. ** And if we go to love triangles, let's add "how dare you think that the tomboy shouldn't get the guy she may or may not be interested in?! YOU'RE ANTI FEMINIST!?". [[{{Bleach}} Ichigo/Rukia fangirls]] are specially infamous for this one.
  229. ** If you pick the tomboy instead? '''You're not safe, either!''' There's this other group who will dogpile you for preferring her, because that apparently means that you hate femininity and view it as weak/wrong/annoying.
  230. * Want a good money sink? Discuss any anime (Ore No Imouto for example) that is remotely [[BrotherSisterIncest incest related]] and [[SomethingAwful Zorak]] will ban you.
  231. * ''TenchiMuyo''. Whatever you do, ''never'' mention that you liked the 3rd OVA. Or ''TenchiMuyoGXP''. Or ''TenchiInTokyo''. Or the movie ''Tenchi Forever''. Or any of the ''PrettySammy'' spinoffs. Come to think of it, just don't ever mention ''Tenchi Muyo'' on any kind of message board.
  232. ** Go to any decently active ''Tenchi'' web community and mention MonaMarshall's name. People will come at you with hot plasma pitchforks saying she's either not the real Ryoko or that she ruined Ryoko and/or ''Tenchi'' forever.
  233. * Try posting images of [[ the first Cosmonaut in outer space]] on any GirlsLove image boards and call them "Yuri Pictures". You'll get some tittering, then a whole lotta flame.
  234. * In regards to ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'', [[spoiler: Kyuubey's reasoning that involved science.]] Just mention anything about ''entropy'' in /a/ would cause an argument. Even if [[spoiler: two characters just died in that episode.]]
  235. ** And be ''very'' careful in debating pairings in the series. In example: Does [[spoiler: Sayaka and Kyouko]]'s relationship count as prospect {{yuri}}? Were [[spoiler: Kyouko]]'s feelings and her willingness to [[spoiler: go through an HeroicSacrifice for Sayaka]] a show of either explicit or potential romantic lesbian love, or just born from a motherly/sisterly instinct? Is [[spoiler: Sayaka]]'s crush on Kamijou detrimental or not for her character as a whole? You're crazy, [[spoiler: Sayaka]] would never be a lesbian, she's too in love with [[spoiler: Kamijou]] and would never ever return a girl's crush on her! You stupid homophobe, [[spoiler: Sayaka]]'s crush on [[spoiler: Kamijou]] is antifeminist and heterosexist and makes her weak, she'll only be cool by falling for a woman and not for an icky man! 14-year-old girls are way too young to know ''anything'' about lesbianism, you sick fuckers! WHY DID YOU ASK THAT YOU IDIOT, SEE THE FLAAAAAMEEEEES!
  236. ** Never mention that this isn't a typical magical girl show. Either you'll be flamed for ''daring'' to think it could've been like the standard, you'll get called "stupid" for any opinions on how TrueArtIsAngsty, or you'll see the old "THIS IS JUST FOR CREEPY OLDER MEN, WAH WAH!" debate in regards to {{Moe}} and FanService.
  237. ** And now that the series has ended, there is already much heated debate about [[spoiler:the ending, in which Madoka ''literally'' becomes a God.]] Talk about this in forums and '''boom''' goes the dynamite.
  238. ** "Is Madoka Magica a {{deconstruction}} or not in the end?" NOOOOOO! YOU BIIIIITCH! YOU BIIIIIITCH!
  239. ** Similar to the debates about ''ElfenLied'' below; is ''Madoka'' a groundbreaking, genre-redefining, SoCoolItsAwesome epic worthy of all its praise, popularity and [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic intellectual discussion]]...or an inch-deep, pretentious, clicheed ExploitationFilm that relied on {{Wangst}}, {{Gorn}} and ShockValue?
  240. * Go on any ''Manga/BlackButler'' forum and say you prefer [[ShipToShipCombat Ciel and Lizzie to Ciel and Sebastian.]]
  241. ** If you say you'd rather TakeAThirdOption and ship [[FoeYay Ciel and Alois]] instead? ''No. You're not safe, either.''
  242. *** Alois, Claude and the whole second season are also very, '''very''' hot topics. And by hot, we mean "'''''FIERY'''''"!
  243. **** For example, say you liked [[TheScrappy Hannah Anafeloz]] on any of the ''Manga/BlackButler'' forums. You'll be banned in an hour.
  244. **** Or say that you approved of [[spoiler: Claude killing Alois]]. '''THE FLAMES, THEY BURN!'''
  245. ** Even better: bring up Grelle Sutcliffe. More exactly: is Grelle a male-to-female {{Transsexual}}, or merely a CampGay male? Oh boy, minefields aplenty.
  246. * ''{{Inuyasha}}'' has tons of these when it comes to pairings [[UnpleasableFanbase IN GENERAL]]. Just bring up [=InuKag=] or [=InuKik=]. They will ''murder'' you.
  247. ** You don't even need to being up Inu/Kag or Inu/Kik, man. Sesshoumaru/Rin vs. Sess/Kagura? It will never ever die. ''Specially'' after a rabid trio of Sess/Rin shippers came out (or more exactly, a rabid Sess/Rin shipper and [[GirlPosse two "minions" that parroted everything she said]]) and left everyone '''mindfucked''' with {{lolicon}} related antics. The less said, the better.
  248. ** Also, there's not even the need of bringing Inuyasha himself into this. Just ask about the merits of Kagome and Kikyou as characters and you'll have a truly epic flame war in your hands. Is Kagome a stressed girl who was thrust into a really rocky situation and tries to deal like a normal person would, or a whiny MarySue who bitches way too much and gets away with shit that others wouldn't? Is Kikyou a selfcentered bitch who'll throw everyone under the bus to get what she wants, or a truly BrokenBird who has gone through way too much crap in both of her lives? Bring on the firefighters!
  249. ** Even easier! Ask anyone if Naraku is a VillainSue or not.
  250. * Anime Conventions are usually looked at with disdain at some anime dedicated forums and imageboards who think the exposure of your interest to anime to the public world should be kept a dirty secret locked away in a dark cold place like some sort of ArtifactOfDoom.
  251. * Go to [[ImageBoards /a/.]] Hop into a Anime/MawaruPenguindrum thread. Mention the "Is Shouma Takakura a potential [[CuteAndPsycho Yangire]]?" [[WMG/MawaruPenguindrum theory]]. Watch the thread dissolve in a FlameWar between those who support it and those who don't.
  252. ** When you bring up a certain scene from episode 14, be careful. If someone leans in favor of either [[spoiler: Shouma]] or [[spoiler: Ringo]] in there, a FlameWar will likely erupt.
  253. ** Episode 18 (more specifically, how [[spoiler: Kanba managed to not lose his arms]] and [[spoiler: Tabuki changing his mind and saving Himari from falling to her death]]) shall not be mentioned on /a/ unless you DO want a flamewar.
  254. ** [[WhamEpisode Episode 19]] may become a new point of contention, what with the somewhat always present animosity between Shouma fans and Kanba fans being take UpToEleven.
  255. ** Even better, we dare you to say that you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''RevolutionaryGirlUtena''. Pray you make it alive.
  256. * Never talk about pairings in ''RanmaOneHalf'' fandom. EVER. These ShippingWars have carried on for '''almost one and a half decades'''.
  257. ** For a bonus, ask whether [[TakahashiCouple Ranma/Akane]] is [[DomesticAbuse an abusive relationship]] or not. Add a question about ''who'' is the one to blame: Akane and her tendence to beat Ranma when he displeases her, or Ranma with his constant verbal abuse of Akane. Roast your mashmallows, and double if you bring the other girls and say that either they're more maliciously abusive than Akane would ever be, or that they'd worship and love Ranma more than Akane ever would do.
  258. * It's best not to wonder what the ''WanderingSon'' characters sexualities are. Also, similar to {{Yotsuba}}, posting or even mentioning porn - or sexuality period - of the characters isn't well received (especially on /a/).
  259. * ''TigerAndBunny''. We dare you to say you don't like [[HeroProtagonist Kotetsu]]; rest assured, you'll be dead in five seconds flat.
  260. ** Or go make a [[{{Deuteragonist}} Barnaby]] fan site in view of a Kotetsu fan...and watch them start screaming at each other within the next second.
  261. ** Also, never EVER ask if Nathan aka Fire Emblem is {{Transsexual}} or not. It's for your own sake.
  262. * {{Moe}} as a whole has become one of the most divisive topics of discussion within the anime fan/otaku community in the last decade. Is it a genre? An aesthetic? Both? Neither? Many fans of more action-oriented fare have come to hate moe (and the closely related [[HaremGenre harem]] and SliceOfLife shows that have become very popular among a sizeable segment of the otaku community) for "ruining modern anime" and act as though moe shows are the worst thing that's ever happened to anime or, in extreme cases, humanity as a whole. And let's not even get into the big question: whether moe encourages the objectification and submission of women (and is thus misogynistic) or not. There is a notable section such as [[ this review]] of ''VisualNovel/{{CLANNAD}}'' which suggest that there is some overlap between the people who cry misogyny and the "pissed off action anime fans complaining about shows that lack explosions". A similar overlap exists with this and "pissed off plot heavy fans complaining about shows that lack story and characterization"
  263. * Say that you do NOT necessarily think ''Anime/RevolutionaryGirlUtena'' is the most important, groundbreaking, perfect, complex and '''''unique''''' {{shoujo}} series ever. Prepare to be slain by the ''Utena'' fandom.
  264. ** Try bringing up the '''five''' different ''Utena'' canons: the TV series, the manga by Chiho Saitou, the ''Adolescence Mokushiroku'' movie, the manga based on TheMovie that's ''also'' by Saitou, and the [[NoExportForYou virtually unknown]] LightNovels. Within seconds, fans that support one of these medias will try to murder the fans who prefer the others. In particular, may God help you if you happen to prefer the first manga over the series; in fact, having a positive opinion of Saitou at all can get you slapped by those who think she's a homophobic so-and-so.
  265. ** We also dare you to ever insinuate you don't ship Utena/Anthy romantically. The Utena/Anthy rabid fans will tear you alive and accuse you of being an homophobe, regardless of your stance on LGBT rights on RealLife. On the other hand, refering to ''Utena'' as a yuri series can be controversial in itself, depending on which corner of the fandom you're looking at.
  266. *** Speaking of LGBT matters, discussing the characters' sexual orientations can be a messy affair. (Is Utena straight, bisexual or lesbian? Is Touga straight or bi? Could Shiori ever reciprocate Juri's feelings for her? And so on.) Wherever you stand, blood is gonna fly.
  267. ** Anthy Himemiya herself is the biggest BaseBreaker in the fandom. There's '''''no''''' middle ground on a character as complex as she is, specially on [[spoiler: her relationship with Akio]] and [[spoiler: her stabbing Utena at the end]]. Is she a person who [[spoiler: is broken beyond belief after a millenia of pain and abuse]], or a ManipulativeBitch who played everyone as fools as either [[spoiler: her revenge for said millenia of pain and abuse]], or as her way to [[spoiler: grasp power for herself and torture everyone (Akio included)]] Either way, don't ask: the mere mention of Anthy can send everyone into hategasms or lovegasms.
  268. ** Do ''not'' bring up a certain scene from [[RecapEpisode episode]] [[WhamEpisode 33]] on Tumblr. You'll regret it.
  269. ** Want to commit the ultimate capital offence in the fandom? Just say you're not a fan of [[EnsembleDarkhorse Juri Arisugawa]].
  270. ** Touga Kiryuu, perhaps the second biggest BaseBreaker. Mention his name and watch people either [[DracoInLeatherPants DILP him to blue hell]] or [[TheScrappy demand his gruesome death]]. Again, it's hard to find any middle ground.
  271. ** And as mentioned above, if you say you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''Utena'', you shall be marked for a painful death.
  272. * [[FateStayNight Shirou]] vs [[{{Tsukihime}} Shiki]] or can Shiki kill X.
  273. * Try bringing up anything to do with {{Tokyopop}} or Stu Levy.
  274. * Mention loving or hating MayuShinjo ''anywhere''. There is simply '''no''' middle ground. The YMMV section of her trope page had to be ''locked'', that's how bad and ultra-personal it got here on TVT.
  275. ** Same goes for stuff like ''BlackBird'' or ''HotGimmick''. Bonus if the "feminists" involved in these "debates" [[DoubleStandard call the (female) authors gendered insults while "protesting" the sexism in their mangas.]] Or even more, use misogynistic arguments full of victim-blaming ''in their "anti-sexism in manga" protests''. ("Teenage girls are inherently easier to influenciate than teenage boys, so they need rolemodels aka Strong Female Characters (tm)!" "There are NO SFC (tm)'s in shoujo, and [[HateDumb the stupid bitches in these mangas are so antifeminist that they deserve their abuse!]]")
  276. * ElfenLied seems to be one of the few series that [[ImageBoard 4chan]] '''''legitimately''''' hates. As such, even mentioning it on /a/ will be the death of you.
  277. ** Please don't attempt to even discuss the morality of the cast. Or whether the series's "message" [[TrueArtIsAngsty is wonderfully and heartbreakingly conveyed in a bloodily beautiful and superior story]] whose main character is a desperate DarkMagicalGirl who badly needs love and approval, or it's merely a mix of {{Wangst}}, ReactionaryFantasy, {{Gorn}} and cheaply-done {{Anvilicious}} situations that attempt to [[DracoInLeatherPants force us to feel sorry]] for a [[EvilisSexy hot]] but [[DesignatedHero ultimately unsympathetic]] VillainProtagonist. Really, don't do it. It's for your own sake.
  278. * Saying any nice things about an anime company that either doesn't exist anymore or no longer releases anime-related localizations. No one likes talking about how anime is dying in the West.
  279. * Are manga/anime also cartoons? There are people who'll get upset on both yes or no answers. By the formal definition in the dictionary, anime ''should'' be seen as one kind of cartoon, but many people agree that anime is ''so'' different than what we usually think of in cartoons that it shouldn't be labeled as such.
  280. * Bring up ''HououGakuenMisoragumi'' around bi/lesbian manga fans. ''I dare you''. This may be why the English publisher discontinued the release after the first volume.
  281. ** On a similar note, ''Manga/MariaHolic''. Absurd comedy that shouldn't be taken the slightest bit seriously, or the most (insert: homophobic, transphobic, etc.) piece of trash ever drawn? Are we supposed to sympathize with Kanako and think she's a massive {{Woobie}}, or to laugh at [[ComedicSociopathy how Mariya]] [[CrossestheLineTwice treats her]]? Actually, let's not get into it.
  282. ** Let's not forget ''{{Shitsurakuen}}''. Mention it around yuri fans and/or bi/lesbian manga fans; in few seconds, someone will reach out to you and slap you for it. Double if you bring up [[spoiler: [[BaseBreaker Tsuki Aoi]] ]] and how [[spoiler: she and Sora ended up married]]: some will say [[spoiler: she needed Sora's affection due to her past]], while others will reply that [[spoiler: she's an evil bitch whom Sora shouldn't have forgiven]], and in the end both bands will try to kill each other.
  283. * Go to an anime forum and say anything negative about ''{{Akira}}''. Then run like the freaking wind.
  284. ** Worse: say you like the movie better than the manga. Then fucking '''disappear'''.
  286. [Comics]
  288.  * When ''{{Nightwing}}'' # 93 came out, it was a major fight in the Comics Forum if Nightwing was raped, or it was consensual sex, or even if men can get raped at all. A poster on Something Awful's comics subforum actually took ''Nightwing'' # 93 to a rape counselor for their opinion on if it was rape or not, that's how far this one went. If you were wondering, according to the counselor, [[spoiler: it was]].
  289. * Wolverine. Go onto '''any''' ''{{Comicbook/X-Men}}'' forum and mention that you either love or hate Wolverine. In particular, the Origin comics and/or [[WolverinePublicity the way he's completely taken over Marvel]] are good for this sort of thing. If for some reason you survive this and still have a death wish, then just MENTION the fact that Rogue has a civilian name
  290. * Who is {{Spider-Man}}'s true love, [[BettyAndVeronica Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane Watson?]] Or is it [[ClassyCatBurglar Black Cat?]] And while we're on that topic, ask ''ComicBook/{{Spider-Man}}'' fans what they think of ''One More Day'', ''Brand New Day'', and ''One Moment in Time''. There are examples on this very wiki.
  291. ** ''One More Day'' has also opened the door to debate over whether marriage actually does tremendously age a character or not. Oh, and do not even ask if [[BaseBreaker Carlie Cooper]] is a good love interest.
  292. * Who is stronger, [[TheDCU DC]]'s Comicbook/{{Superman}}, or [[MarvelUniverse Marvel]]'s {{Thor}}? If you like your flamewars extra-crispy, throw in the question "Can Superman lift Mjolnir?", then stand back and watch the immolation. This is true of every single "Vs." scenario on a comics board. Every one, no matter how lopsided, will start a flamewar, because there's always someone who thinks Batman can beat the Anti-Monitor with a week of prep time or something.
  293. * ''{{Transformers}}'' fans come in many different varieties, but there is a vocal faction that maintains that the 1984-91 comic series (and its 1994-95 sequel mini-series, ''Generation 2'') published by Marvel Comics is the definitive iteration of the franchise and derides the existence of any other version of the story and mythology (apart from the [[TransformersTheMovie 1986 animated movie]], which seems to be universally enjoyed by the fandom). There is also a cross-over between this group and another that maintains that Simon Furman is the definitive ''Transformers'' writer and refuses to consider any version of the mythos that exists without his input or approval as canon. These groups thus refuse to consider the animated series (apart from the movie) as canon, but accept ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' as Furman wrote an episode and the series is broadly compatible with comic continuity. However, they then deride the sequel series, ''Beast Machines'', which reintroduces elements from the original animated series which clash with the comic, such as Vector Sigma. These flame wars and arguments can sometimes be exemplified by the debate between with the cartoon idea that the unimpressive Quintessons (whose entire civilisation was briefly brought down by just seven Autobots in the movie) were the creators of Cybertron and the Transformers, whilst the comics maintained that both were in fact created by a god-like hyper-intelligence from before the dawn of time (Primus).
  294. ** Simon Furman later attempted to straighten out the whole mess by decreeing that there is an enormous ''Transformers'' multiverse consisting of many different dimensions and realities in which the original comic, the numerous different cartoon series, the Japanese version of the mythos, the Michael Bay movie, etc., all coexist, and wrote some stories featuring cross-overs between them.
  295. *** Given the sometimes severe differences between the series, this doesn't help matters at all when someone attempts to reconcile them. Did the Quintessons create the Transformers or did Primus?
  296. ** Then there's the concept of female Transformers. Furman says that transformers have no gender, and yet individuals who self-identify as female appear in most continuities that aren't written by Furman (although they are rare). There has been a ''lot'' of {{fanwank}} over exactly how Transformers see gender and why there are so few females compared to males. This leads directly into {{Slash}} wank, where slash proponents claim that since Transformers have no human concept of gender they wouldn't care about the pronoun of the robot (or for that matter, robots) that they happen to be making out with.
  297. ** [[MemeticMutation TRUKK NOT MUNKY]]
  298. ** Then there is the problem of Bob Budiansky VS. Furman. Dare to mention that ''The Carwash of Doom'' or the ''Scraplets'' or the ''Underbase''-stories are better than Furman's later stories and you'll get flamed to hell.
  299. ** An old Transformers joke goes as follows: How many Transfans does it take to change a lightbulb? Twenty-one: one to change the bulb, and twenty to complain about how much better the bulb was in the eighties.
  300. ** Do '''not''' say you like Pat Lee unless you're a masochist.
  301. * ''ElfQuest''. The comic contains roc-like huge birds. Asking whether these would physically be able to fly is just asking for a flame war. "No, biology says they can't" -- "Yes, you can see them flying in issue 17". And so forth.
  302. ** Let's not even mention the whole plagiarism issue, will you?
  303. * Cassandra Cain, decent character ruined by being given to a horrible writer or horrible CanonSue that needs to be killed off as soon as possible? Also occurs to a lesser extent with X-23.
  304. * Ask comic book fans who is right in the ''ComicBook/CivilWar'': pro-regs or anti-regs, and watch how in less than 3 minutes [[GodwinsLaw grown up people start to accuse each other of being Nazis/Terrorists]].
  305. * The ''{{Watchmen}}'' [[Film/{{Watchmen}} film adaptation]] has caused a particular ping-ponging back draft, as the movie seems to inspire a clear amount of LoveItOrHateIt. Topics include whether it should have been made against the creator's wishes, the quality of the final product as a whole, or just the altered ending in the film and whether it worked or not. Note that this a vast understatement of how these arguments usually play out.
  306. * Mention ''ComicBook/YoungJustice'''s cancellation. Chances are, someone will go on a soapbox about how ''Comicbook/TeenTitans'' ruined the characters or [[DemotedToExtra ignored the good ones]], or just say that YJ [[strike:fans]] were a bunch of immature kids.
  307. * Ask ''Comicbook/TeenTitans'' fans who's better: The former ComicBook/YoungJustice members or the '80s-era ones? Sit back and watch the backdraft commence.
  308. * DC's Crises - Was ''InfiniteCrisis'' a load of crap? Is ''FinalCrisis'' the greatest thing ever? The only thing the fans can agree on is that ''Amazons Attack'' isn't even worth the paper it's printed on.
  309. * Is {{Supergirl}} a shallow megabitch Paris Hilton-wannabe with a belt instead of a skirt - or is she a legitimate character?
  310. ** Just for clarification, we are talking about the version that was reintroduced in 2004. Kal's cousin was originally killed in 1985 before Paris Hilton was invented.
  311. *** There's also her depiction in the Mike Turner Supergirls.
  312. * Feminism in comics in general.
  313. ** Also, whether any given female character's death is an example of WomenInRefrigerators.
  314. ** Say anything about GailSimone or Devin Grayson that isn't pure praise and worship. Prepare to be accused of being a "MISOGYNIST!" even if you're a RealLife feminist or if you point out ''legitimate'' flaws in their stories (like, you know, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale Nightwing and Tarantula]]).
  315. ** Oh, and if you happen to not be a fan of one of those female characters whose WomenInRefrigerators death continues to linger? So many flames, even if she's gotten better.
  316. *** Speaking of which, no one is allowed to negatively criticize WIR, ever, or the term derived from it.
  317. *** On the feminism issue, do not mention {{Stripperiffic}} or {{Most Common Superpower}} on an internet forum, approximately 30% of comic people will flame you for it hard enough to burn a hole through Adamantium
  318. * Legacy characters, particularly in DC, are a huge cause of this. For years, you couldn't set foot in a DC Comics GreenLantern forum and ask about Hal Jordan/Kyle Rayner without a debate sparking up. And Ron Raymond/Jason Rusch as Firestorm? It's almost punny.
  319. ** In the case of GL, TakeAThirdOption and tell the Hal and/or Kyle fans that you'd rather have (insert name: Alan Scott, John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Kilowog, G'nort, etc.). Say your prayers and wait for your martyrdom.
  320. * There's actually an example of this in an episode of ''TheBigBangTheory'', where Sheldon gets in an internet argument with Batman fans over which Robin should be the rightful successor of Batman, in the event of Batman's death. It then spills over ''in real life'' when Sheldon mentions the argument to a friend who's a comic book salesman, and then they begin arguing ''with each other.''
  321. ** It becomes HilariousInHindsight because Sheldon feels Dick Grayson should get the cowl, while Stuart wanted Jason Todd to take up the mantle, arguing that Dick Grayson has already established himself as Nightwing and Jason is therefore the logical choice(with one fan on a message board humorously replying "anybody that thinks Jason Todd should be Batman does not deserve to sleep with Penny'). Sheldon of course, was right.
  322. * Uncanny X-Men # 350. That's the issue that revealed Gambit was responsible for recruiting the Marauders on behalf of Mr. Sinister, resulting in him ultimately being responsible for the Morlock Massacre.
  323. * More to the point, that reveal is followed by Rogue leaving Gambit in Antarctica, without even the shirt on his back. They got back together.
  324. ** Oh just mention Remy/Rogue if you want a flame war. Either she killed his character or he killed hers and there are still fans of the pairing too.
  325. ** Mentioned above, but don't try to change the topic by saying Rogue's real name is "Marie", it will only make it worse
  326. * [[ArchieComics Archie's]] ''[[{{ComicBook/SonicTheHedgehog}} Sonic the Hedgehog]]'' comic: discussing the UnfortunateImplications of [[WordOfGay Rotor's life partner Cobar]] being tortured to death in the "25 Years Later" storyline has led to an argument on the discussion page that reached the point where an admin had to lock the page.
  327. * God help you if you defend "Justice League: Cry for Justice". And forget about defending [[spoiler: the death of Lian Harper]]. You might as well just turn off the internet now.
  328. ** ''[[ReviewsAreTheGospel Especially]]'' [[ReviewsAreTheGospel now that]] [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] [[ReviewsAreTheGospel has reviewed it.]]
  329. * Cassie Sandsmark: A horrible waste of ink and paper since the day she was created and propped up as [[PuritySue the best thing ever]] that deserves the most family unfriendly death EVER, or a once-fun character that was unfairly derailed by writers who keep undoing any development that others try to give her? For your own sake, do not bring up either view around people that think the opposite.
  330. ** Another question about her guaranteed to generate backdraft is if it's okay for her to grieve and "wangst" over her boyfriend's death, or if even her showing feelings for Superboy in the first place derailed her from being a compelling feminist character.
  331. * Say you liked anything written by Geoff Johns, even before his arguable DorkAge, in a forum populated by those who hate what he's done. Be prepared to be accused of supporting misogyny, being a white supremacist, and wanting your comics the way your granddaddy liked them (even if you're a fan of the '90s heroes that DC's been slaughtering and have qualms too).
  332. * Regarding ''FinalCrisis'', there's some intense debate over whether [[spoiler:Batman should've shot Darkseid. Specifically, whether he should've used a gun. For some reason, there are people who think that a guy who doesn't use guns should stick to that promise even when the entire Multiverse is at stake.]]
  333. * Mention that you have read {{Cerebus}} without qualifying your statement by saying that Dave Sim is the Worst Man Ever and a total big meany. Watch the flames come in as a result. Or, if you ''really'' want to start something, say that that you read it, but ''also'' say that you think Sim might by onto something with his views on women and on the Torah.
  334. * Pretty much any non-comic fan making character judgements about DC superheroes without taking into account the changes brought on by the CosmicRetcon of CrisisOnInfiniteEarths will cause comic book readers to blow a gasket in frustration.
  335. * Go on to a comics forum and simply ''mention'' the 2011 DC Comics reboot. If the server hasn't completely melted as a result of the ensuing arguments, then mention how Barbara Gordon is going to be Batgirl. Bonus points if you mention that you actually ''approve'' of that development. That should do the trick.
  336. ** Barbara Gordon's case is particularly complicated by the fact that, pre-reboot, she was both one of if not the most high-profile disabled characters in comic books ''and'' often cited as a prime example of the WomenInRefrigerators effect mentioned above. So naturally, once all of that was filtered through the Internet Arguments Oversimplification System, if you approved of her regaining use of her legs you were ableist, if you didn't you were sexist or even misogynistic. And that's not even getting into the arguments about whether Cassandra Cain and / or Stephanie Brown were better or more important as Batgirl than Barbara was.
  337. * The Dreamwidth community scans_daily is a veritable ''hive'' of wank. For instance:
  338. ** Mention ''anything'' bad happening to a female character. Even an innocent {{MASH}} reference got a mod-smackdown.
  339. *** Pretty much any posting which addresses race, sexuality and gender in comics can create a firestorm in the right conditions. Or even the wrong conditions.
  340. ** Say you think TheModernAgeOfComicBooks is the best age of comic books.
  341. ** Even GailSimone, one of the community's favorite writers and a semi-frequent poster there, isn't immune from their wrath. In an issue of ''ComicBook/BirdsOfPrey'', she wrote an issue in which a gay character apparently commits suicide. The community yelled at her to StopBeingStereotypical. When she explained that they should wait and see how the arc resolves, they fired back at her that it doesn't ''matter'' how the arc resolves, as it's still a stereotype. Simone said ScrewThisImOuttaHere. She got the last laugh, though, as the next issue revealed the character to be alive!
  342. * Almost anything and everything about WonderWoman and what's been happening to her in the last few years will provoke screaming matches in the right places:
  343. ** Whether she should have pants or not.
  344. ** Gail Simone's arc, particularly Genocyde.
  345. ** Pretty much ''everything'' J. Michael Straczynski's arc, but particularly the costume and the changes to her backstory.
  346. ** On the whole, Brian Azzarello's opening run following the 2011 reboot has been well-received, but arguments can still erupt about the changes to her origin: [[spoiler: specifically, whether her origin as a clay statue given life is superior to the revamp, where she was directly fathered by Zeus]].
  347. *** Then Wonder Woman # 7 came out. [[spoiler: Every thirty years the Amazons would have sex with men then kill them. They keep the girls that they conceive and give the boys to Hephaestus. Some were angry about how barbaric it made the Amazons look, while others [[ praised]] it for going back to it's mythological roots]]
  348. * Anything written by Scott Lobdell. Be it Starfire's sexuality, [[ItMakesSenseInContext Tim Drake and Bart Allen fighting over a sweater]], or waffles; there will be wank. You either think he's okay, or he's the RobLiefeld of comic book writers.
  349. ** Particularly funny because his fans rarely think more than one of his initial DCnU books to be above decent. RedHoodAndTheOutlaws has this in particular, as it sparked outrage for its portrayal of Starfire, but also proved to have a rabid fanbase.
  350. * The ''Comicbook/{{X-Men}}'' spinoff ''[[NewMutants New X-Men]]'' is something of a CultClassic, never reaching astronomical sales numbers but maintaining an enduring fanbase all the same, and it had two diametrically-opposed runs in its time: the first, by Nunzio [=DeFilippis=] and Christine Weir, was essentially a lighthearted high school drama, and the followup run by Craig Kyle and Chris Yost was a DarkerAndEdgier traditional superhero book. Now, you can quite easily get away with saying you liked either of these runs, but what you should ''never'' voice your opinion on is which you thought was ''better''. [=DeFilippis=]/Weir had no conflict! Kyle/Yost was gratuitously gory and insulting to fans! The title's been canceled for years and bringing up this subject is still a barrel of TVT waiting to go off. [=DeFilippis=], who is active in fan communities, has repeatedly come out to defend Kyle and Yost from angry fans, for what it's worth.
  351. * Go onto any ''BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' forum and bring up the comics. Sit back and watch a battle erupt over whether they're a good addition to the canon or totally screwed up and little better than glorified fanfic.
  352. * A recent ''LifeWithArchieTheMarriedLife'' story was highlighted by the marriage of Kevin Keller to his life partner. Groups such as [[NonIndicativeName One Million Moms]] raised hell about the issue, and about the ''{{Archie}}'' comics in general. The result was a massive backfire on their part--[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome the issue sold out in record time]], and secondhand copies are being sold online for up to ten times the original price.
  353. * Doing a series of prequel to ''{{Watchmen}}'' was always going to be controversial, as it's one of the most loved works in comics history. Add in the fact that AlanMoore has a well-publicised beef with the DCComics higher-ups over the rights to the series ''and'' has vocally spoken out against the prequels, however, and you're just creating the perfect circumstances for a wank of megaton proportions. And so it was when ''Before Watchmen'' was announced...
  354. ** Speaking of Moore, in the right circles, saying you think he is anything less than the greatest comic book writer who ever lived can cause this, even if you legitimately believe his storytelling (or his [[{{Jerkass}} personality]]) has flaws. If you ''really'' want to fry, say you think any one other comic writer, ''especially'' GrantMorrison or GeoffJohns (the latter of whom Moore himself dislikes) but really anyone except ''maybe'' JackKirby, is Moore's peer as a storyteller.
  355. * Superman and Wonder Woman have been announced as a couple in the DC reboot, and it's quickly proving to be a contested decision.
  356. ----
  358. [Fan Works]
  360.  * Go to any Fourm about Avatar: The Last Airbender fanfiction and mention you like [[ "Embers"]] by Vathara. Or you don't like it, for that matter. Either one will give birth to Flames that can be seen from the dark side of Pluto.
  361. * Mention the fanfic ''AllHeEverWanted'' to the AxisPowersHetalia fen. The fandom will be split among fans who tout it as BetterThanCanon and anti-fans who hate it to death. And it looks like this has been going even ''in this very wiki''. From the [[YMMV.HomePage ymmv]] page:
  362. ** "If you don't like it? Either you don't appreciate 'True Art' (which is [[TrueArtIsAngsty always angsty and contrived and what not]]), you're a butthurt Prussia or England/Japan fangirl who cannot stand their less-than-stellar portrayals, or YoureJustJealous of Mith and/or Puel's "online stardom" so you want to 'slander' them."
  363. ** "If you like it? You're a ProfessionalButtKisser who want to look good by saying you like their stuff, a pompous Jerk Ass who looks down on the average fandom and think you're superior because of your tastes, or you MUST be one of these fans that relentlessly bully those who dislike it."
  364. * About the only other Hetalia fanfic that's even more controversial than this one is a certain infamous fill over at the Hetalia KinkMeme - if you're familiar with the kink meme at all, you'll instantly know which one we mean. Said fanfic is so immensely popular that it has spawned numerous spinoffs and related requests, but its...shall we say...[[SexualHarassmentAndRapeTropes controversial]] [[RevengeFic subject]] has caused ''many'' anti-fans to call it CanonRape that should never, ever have been made, even as the fic's fans attack them for getting so uppity about a work that was created just for FetishFuel purposes.
  365. * Mentioning Phyrriccomedy's ''The Chosen End'' is like throwing fish in a barrel. You have discussions about characterization of the leads (DracoInleatherPants Russia and {{Uke}} America) about the [[DieForOurShip bashing of England]] supposedly "based" on "historical canon" (only applied to ''him'' and not to Russia or USA), the wanky and holier-than-thou behavior of the author (shown in the HateFic in which she makes England a crazy {{Yandere}} who ''rapes and tortures America''), the fangirls who can't [[ TOLERATE]] any criticism of TCE...
  366. * There's also one Hetalia fanwriter who used to be a well-respected and highly praised BigNameFan until a combination of real-life depression and criticism from people who viewed her France as OOC caused her to have an epic CreatorBreakdown and stir up a torrent of wank on the Hetalia kink meme discussion post that was so bad that the kink meme mods severely limited the topics allowed on the discussion post and a general discussion post had to be started on another journal. The wank died down over time, only to be resurrected when the fan returned to the kink meme, despite her earlier declaration that she was quitting it for good, and wrote a fill that left many readers disturbed at her treatment of France and commenting on how it seemed like she was vicariously torturing him and how she still seemed to be sensitive to criticism in spite of her insistence that she genuinely wanted to improve her characterization of France. Nowadays, the very mention of her name or portrayal of France is a one-way ticket to a whirlwind of wankery and complaints from anons who are sick about this topic being brought up again.
  367. * Ask for opinions on sub quality between ''Miss Dream'' or ''Sailor Moon Fansubs'' for Sailor Moon videos, prepare to run from the explosion of flames. Drama such as this has ''also'' caused vandalism in this very wiki.
  368. * Likewise, following either Ian Andreas Miller or Hitsuji Kinno's spellings for different character terms or names may wind up getting you torn down by the anti-fans of the one whose spellings you support. That's not even getting into the debates over which one of them is the [[SmallNameBigEgo more pompous]]. If you thought even the most simple spellings weren't serious business, you might wind up having to think again with certain forums.
  369. * [[ "The Tie"]]: Hottest/most emotional/greatest ''AmericanIdol'' fanfic ever, or purple/out-of-character/melodramatic InNameOnly claptrap that should've ended x number of chapters ago? Ooooooh, pretty bonfire!
  370. * CallistoHime, fanfiction's equivalent to Music/JustinBieber. That is all.
  371. * Fanfic/DumbledoresArmyAndTheYearOfDarkness for HarryPotter fans. You'll either love it or hate it. There is no middle ground and both sides are quite vocal.
  372. ** And please, don't even bring up the author's... turbulent personal life. It's for your own good. Really.
  373. * Go to any ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' forum, fan site, or image board and mention {{Fanfic/Cupcakes}}, [[Fanfic/PastSins Nyx]], [[Fanfic/TheConversionBureau The Conversion Bureau and spinoffs,]] or any [[FetishFuel sexual art of the characters]]. The ensuing firestorm will leave you wishing that [[BigGood Princess Celestia]] would show up and send everyone involved to the moon.
  374. ** Try posting artwork of any (and we do mean ''any'') fictional character as a pony. The flames are inevitable.
  375. * Mention the "[[BigNameFan Draco Trilogy]]" on any ''HarryPotter'' fan site. Then stand well back.
  376. ** Oh, the ''HP'' fandom. You can cause a flamewar about {{Shipping}}, saying that WordOfGod isn't Canon, the Epilogue...
  377. ** Before the GainaxEnding was unveiled, many a FlameWar was caused on the ''Fanfic/ParadigmOfUncertainty'' mailing list by a hapless newbie stumbling in and asking when the next chapter was due. Back in the Golden Age of ''HarryPotter'' {{fanfic}} the fic itself generated as many {{Flame War}}s as you'd expect from an epic MindScrew with {{Alternate Character Interpretation}}s and a [[ShippingWars controversial ship]], but nothing on the scale of ''Fanfic/TheDracoTrilogy''.
  378. ** Bring up, or better yet say you like ''MyImmortal''.
  379. *** Also, ask the question "Is ''My Immortal'' a quality fanfiction, or is it just [[TrollFic the work of a troll]]?"
  381. [Film]
  383.  * ''JamesBond''. Which of the (to date) six actors portraying the world's favorite spy is best, and whether or not any given actor is good. There was a ''BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' episode where three nerds argue over Bond: two pick the usual populist choices of SeanConnery and Roger Moore, while the third nerd finally erupts in frustration that less-liked actor TimothyDalton would kick both their asses. This came to particular prominence in the international media due to the casting of DanielCraig.
  384. * The Oscars are always going to cause epic flame wars, no matter what films win, lose, or don't get nominated in the first place. Some notable examples
  385. ** 1998: ''ShakespeareInLove'' winning Best Picture over ''SavingPrivateRyan'', not helped by the backlash against the Weinstein's massive Oscar campaign for the former
  386. ** 2006: Nothing makes old wounds ache like bringing up ''Film/{{Crash}}'' winning in 2006 over ''BrokebackMountain''. Not helped by the author of the book BrokebackMountain is based on claiming this was due to homophobia
  387. ** 2007: ''TheGoldenCompass'' winning Best Visual Effects over ''Film/{{Transformers}}''.
  388. ** 2009: ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' (and to a lesser extent ''WesternAnimation/{{WALL-E}}'') not receiving Best Picture nods (while the much less well received OscarBait ''Literature/TheReader'' did) caused enough backlash to inspire the Academy to expand the Best Picture category from five to ten films. Still pisses off a lot of people though
  389. ** And of course there are those who argue the converse: that increasing the number of possible nominees either cheapens the award or divides votes to the extent where lesser movies win over much better ones
  390. ** 2010: ''Avatar'' losing Best Picture to ''TheHurtLocker'' is going to be FlameBait for years to come. Revolutionary, breath-taking epic snubbed in favor of obscure, angsty, [[WarIsHell war-is-hell]] critical darling just because of the SciFiGhetto / AnimationAgeGhetto / TrueArtIsNotPopular and people hatin' on JamesCameron? Or bloated, derivative, overhyped, overrated spectacle getting a deserved slapdown in favor of honest, relevant filmmaking? Or did neither of them deserve it and [[QuentinTarantino Quentin]] [[IngloriousBasterds Tarantino]]/{{Pixar}} [[Film/{{Up}} Studios]] get screwed again?
  391. ** 2011 with major FandomRivalry between ''TheSocialNetwork'' and ''TheKingsSpeech'' fans (Innovative, relevant and edgy film about youth culture versus prime OscarBait? Or well-acted, emotional piece against superficially clever film [[TooSoon lacking historical distance from its subject?]]) with input from the ''ToyStory3'', ''Film/{{Inception}}'' and ''TrueGrit'' fans. Further inflamed by ChristopherNolan not even receiving a nomination for Best Director, joining Tarantino in the "Just what the hell do these directors have to ''do'' to get Academy recognition!?!" club.
  392. ** 2012: MerylStreep vs. Viola Davis. Was Meryl long overdue? Was Viola robbed? And then bring race issues into it, and prepare to watch the Internet go up in toasty, toasty flames.
  393. *** ''[[{{Film/HarryPotter}} Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2]]'', which is quickly becoming among the most infamous snubs in the show's history.
  394. ** This trope is OlderThanYouThink, predating the internet as we know it. ''ForrestGump'' beat ''Film/PulpFiction'' and ''TheShawshankRedemption'' in 1994 (and ''JurassicPark'' wasn't even nominated), ''DancesWithWolves'' beat {{Goodfellas}} in 1990, ''OrdinaryPeople'' won instead of ''RagingBull'' in 1980, ''KramerVsKramer'' won over ''Film/ApocalypseNow'' in 1979, ''MyFairLady'' beat out ''Dr. Strangelove'' in 1964, and so on and so on. Not to mention the dozens of brilliant films that were never nominated.
  395. ** Another source of irritation is the way the Academy treats the major awards like lifetime achievement awards at times. Thus, Marlon Brando wins Best Actor for ''Film/TheGodfather'', when the award should have gone to Al Pacino (who inexplicably was nominated for Supporting Actor that year). Pacino eventually won for ''Scent of a Woman'', even though arguably it was the weakest performance out of those nominated in 1993.
  396. ** Let's just say this is why AwardSnub no longer allows examples on that page.
  397. ** Speaking of Academy and Oscar awards, tell anyone that you think ''{{Juno}}'' was a great movie and deserved all the awards it won. You will be flamed and mutilated endlessly.
  398. ** Until MartinScorsese won an Oscar, a common trope on film nerd boards was "I guess the Academy thinks [[INSERT WINNER HERE]] is better than Scorsese!", whether or not he was even nominated that year. It got old fast.
  399. * As follows from the NotUsingTheZWord article, there have been some pretty nerdy debates on whether the Infection in ''Film/TwentyEightDaysLater'' is zombie-like in nature, whether the movie "counted" as a zombie film and the various ethical debates within the series. The "WAI NO ZOMBEES??" debate is the main one, unfortunately, as no one apparently cares about what the plot was for -- just, why the hell aren't those zombies lusting for human flesh and lurching appropriately?
  400. * Go to any sci-fi related forum and claim that Harrison Ford's Deckard in ''Film/BladeRunner'' is/isn't a replicant.
  401. * Wanna start a FlameWar within the ''{{Godzilla}}'' fandom? It's easy. Just mention that the American remake of ''Film/{{Godzilla}}'' is even slightly good.
  402. ** For added flames, mention that you liked ''Godzilla's Revenge''.
  403. ** Likewise, just casually ask whether or not Film/KingKong, {{Gamera}}, or, more recently, the {{Cloverfield}} monster could beat Godzilla. Then, sit back, relax, and enjoy the oncoming flames.
  404. ** Never ask where [[TheScrappy Minya]] came from (or Junior or even Godzooky for that matter). Just, don't. Too many Godzilla fans have been decimated in the resulting flame wars.
  405. ** [[ViewerGenderConfusion "Is Destoroyah a boy or a girl?"]] Cue flamewar in 3... 2... 1...
  406. ** Mention that you like any of the following monsters- [[TheScrappy Minya, Godzooky, Gabara, or Jet Jaguar.]] The fandom will tear you to shreds.
  407. ** Ask whether or not the [[DarkerAndEdgier more serious and darker]] Godzilla films are better than the [[LighterAndSofter goofier and cheesy]] Godzilla films. The flames will commence immediately.
  408. ** Likewise, ask which era is best. Showa, Heisei, or Millennium?
  409. ** Ishiro Honda. Either he's one of the greatest Japanese film directors who created brilliant monster movies, or he's ridiculously over-hyped and takes the attention away from underappreciated Godzilla film directors. No two fans will fully agree.
  410. ** Go onto a Godzilla fan forum. Post a negative review of ''Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack''. Sit back, and enjoy the flames.
  411. ** Should Godzilla fight classic foes like Mothra, King Ghidorah, and Mechagodzilla? Or, should he fight more original monsters like Biollante, Orga, and Destroyah? The fandom has been at each other's throats for ''years'', and it just keeps going on whenever some poor soul asks this eternal-struggle causing question.
  412. * Which GeorgeRomero film is the best zombie movie? For extra fun, what is the symbolism of each movie, if any?
  413. * Unless you want to start a massive flame war with Serbian internet goers, you probably shouldn't even mention Angelina Jolie's directorial debut ''InTheLandOfBloodAndHoney''. Check out [[ the trailer's]] comments for more examples than you could shake a stick at.
  414. * Go to any ''{{Batman}}''/movie forum/ Website/YouTube video and say you prefer the TimBurton 1989 ''Film/{{Batman}}'' or for that matter any Batman film from 1966 to ''Begins'' as opposed to ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' and watch the fanboys attack. Seriously, when they start claiming that HeathLedger actually became SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, mention how him terrorizing cities in real life had no press coverage.
  415. ** Same goes for saying that you prefer the new one to the old one.
  416. ** And just for laughs: Who is the better Batman?
  417. ** Who was the better Joker: Ledger, Nicholson, or Hamill?
  418. ** Better yet: Who was the best Bruce Wayne in addition to who was the best Batman?
  419. ** Recipe for complete destruction: "Joel Schumacher made WAAAAAAY better Batman movies than Christopher Nolan and Tim Burton put together."
  420. * Back when the movie ''Film/{{Constantine}}'' was released, stating that the movie version was superior to [[ComicBook/{{Hellblazer}} his comic counterpart]] would result in 10+ pages worth of rants and flames on forums.
  421. * Do ''not'' mention the JoelSchumacher film on a ''[[ThePhantomOfTheOpera Phantom of the Opera]]'' forum. On one discussion forum, the pro-film and anti-film parties were segregated into separate threads to keep the peace. The drama has subsided somewhat due to the various factions [[BrokenBase quietly ignoring each other]], but still... enough lives have been lost already. Don't mention him near the ''{{Batman}}'' fans either... it's not pretty.
  422. * In the "Phantom" vein, don't ever, ever, EVER, say that you like the Tim Burton ''Film/SweeneyToddTheDemonBarberOfFleetStreet'' movie around musical theater fans, or say that you like the original stage play around Johnny Depp fangirls. Either way, you're gonna get burned. Better yet, don't say that both versions have a lot of good points and you don't see what's so bad about one or the other.
  423. * ''HighSchoolMusical''...pretty much for its mere existence.
  424. * The latest ''Film/StarTrek'' movie generated these, even before opening. This has led to "Post this and get banned" notices at several bulletin boards.
  425. ** Give it anything but complete praise and you ''will'' get attacked... even if you write a ''positive'' review. On one major fansite [[EightPointEight a score of a 6]] provoked a huge amount of hate mail-a 6 was also given by the author to ''Film/StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome'', and that score is higher than the ones for ''Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock, Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier'' and ''Film/StarTrekNemesis''. But still, ''it wasn't a 10'', so it was bad.
  426. ** Among some groups saying anything positive about the film will get you attacked as a moron or someone who hates what ''Franchise/StarTrek'' is supposed to stand for.
  427. * ''Franchise/StarWars'' there's lots of fun here. Some highlights:
  428. ** Try saying you liked any of the prequels (Episode I if you are brave).
  429. ** You ''might'' be able to get away with saying you liked ''RevengeOfTheSith''
  430. ** Try saying you hated any of the originals (Episode V if you have the nerve)
  431. ** ''ReturnOfTheJedi'' might be fair game in some circles though.
  432. ** Ask whether the Expanded Universe is worth consideration. Bonus points if you do so in []'s lit forum
  433. ** State Book Series X is not as good as Book Series Y
  434. ** Opine that George Lucas is a Genius/Moron
  435. ** Question an author's interpretation/writing of a character (EU sources)
  436. ** Try to seriously ponder the moral culpability on the Jedi for accepting the clone army...
  437. ** ...or any other mention of Karen Traviss
  438. ** Mention General Grievous. Was he an AnticlimaxBoss? Was Lucas wrong for going against GenndyTartakovsky's version of the character in ''CloneWars''? Was Tartakovsky wrong for going against Lucas's original idea? Was Mace Windu Force-Crushing his chest enough justification for any perceived VillainDecay? You will not, however, be flamed for claiming the ''CloneWars'' incarnation was a BadAss, or that you liked the comic explaining his origin.
  439. ** Mention that you have refrained from watching any of them, and never intend to, and watch fans of any of the movies' jaws drop, and listen to them insist that you 'have to' watch the movies.
  440. ** Imply Curtis Saxton's data in the technical manuals is anything less than accurate or honest.
  441. * Go into any horror movie forum and bring up the issue of whether ''EvilDead II'' is a remake, reboot, or sequel. No matter what side you support (or even if you're neutral), you're bound to stir up some flames.
  442. * ''{{Goodfellas}}'' vs. ''Film/TheGodfather'', or the directorial skills of [[FrancisFordCoppola Coppola]] vs. [[MartinScorsese Scorsese]].
  443. * With critics savagely blasting ''[[Film/{{Transformers}} Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]'', they appear to have designated themselves to be the recipients of extra strength flames (Most notably RogerEbert, [[ who then responded to the hate mail from his initial review]] not unlike [[WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation Yatzhee]] and ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros. Brawl'', noted below). On top of that, there's [[UncleTomfoolery the Twins]], who made the medias implode over the perceived racism.
  444. * The ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' movies. Quick ways to piss off entire forums: StephenieMeyer's "dream team" casting should have been put into place by Summit. RobertPattinson is the best/worst Edward ever. Same for KristenStewart and Bella. TaylorLautner should have been fired. Bryce Dallas Howard will make a FAR better Victoria. NewMoon was horrible. Twilight's special effects were awesome. And, easiest of all: there should be no sex in BreakingDawn, because won't anyone ThinkOfTheChildren?
  445. * ''Film/{{Avatar}}'' is a good source of InternetBackdraft. Especially when you put them in [[UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny fights against]] [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} less]] [[{{Aliens}} idealistic]] [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquer worlds]]. Some will use this as an outlet to kill the Na'vi while others will view this with disgust
  446. ** Even better, the plot of the film alone is enough to start a flame war. Especially if you compare it to ''FernGully'', ''DancesWithWolves'', and/or ''{{Pocahontas}}''.
  447. ** Note, however, that this is usually not so much because of any disagreement about the validity of the comparisons (assuming the issue is even considered relevant) as the jokes being ''supremely'' stale. Even people who agreed, for instance, that the creators of ''Series/{{Lost}}'' were making it up as they went along got sick to death of jokes about this long before the series finale came.
  448. ** Also, expect WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender fans to complain about the title.
  449. * "Is ''Shock Treatment'' a sequel or not?" The official answer: [[spoiler:yes and no. It does take place AFTER ''{{Rocky Horror| Picture Show}}'', but it's not a continuation of the first film]]. Try telling that to the fandom, though. Likewise, never, ''never'', '''NEVER''' mention that you find the AudienceParticipation in ''Rocky Horror'' to be pointless or a "silly gimmick that's the only thing keeping a mediocre cult film alive". You will be burned by flames.
  450. * The remake of ''Film/ANightmareOnElmStreet2010'' and how Creator/RobertEnglund and only Robert Englund is allowed to play Freddy Krueger. You'd think casting JackieEarleHaley as everyones' favorite claw-handed killing machine was a crime worse than the Lindbergh kidnapping the way some of the fanboys are carrying on about it.
  451. * To this very day there are flamewars over which parent in ''Film/MrsDoubtfire'' was actually sympathetic. It basically boils down to "Miranda was a total bitch and Daniel was just a guy who loved his kids and would do anything to be with them" vs. "Miranda was the only responsible person in the house and Daniel was a pathetic, whiny, slightly creepy jerk worthy of contempt". And it's not just limited to the film's IMDB board either. The film's entry in the FamilyUnfriendlyAesop page of this very wiki used to be full of {{natter}} from Team Miranda vs. Team Daniel.
  452. * Want to start a FlameWar within ''TheLionKing'' fandom? [[TwoWords Four Words]]: KimbaTheWhiteLion.
  453. ** Heck, the same could be said if it's vice versa.
  454. ** Never, ''Never'', '''NEVER''' ask whether or not the sequels are any good. The answers will vary, to say the least.
  455. ** It's also not a good idea to ask whether or not ''TimonAndPumbaa'' is canon to how the titular meerkat and warthog duo met or if the midquel ''Lion King 1 1/2'' is.
  456. ** Nala. Especially when it involves the topic of her parentage (IE: Is Scar her father? Is Mufasa? Is it some random unknown lion?)
  457. ** The film in general. Is it Disney's greatest 2D animated film, ever? Is it a good film, but not worth all the hype? Or, is it just an [[HypeBacklash over-hyped animal musical]] that doesn't deserve all the attention/praise it gets? You're bound to get at least two or more people with ''very'' different opinions on the matter.
  458. ** Do '''NOT''', under any circumstances, mention that you dislike/hate Scar. Just...don't. Unless you want to be mauled by rabid fangirls.
  459. ** '''NEVER''' say that you dislike the film, or think it is a bad film. You will face an end worse than the above.
  460. * Apparently, do not mention that you think JamesCameron is the greatest filmmaker of all time in front of ChristopherNolan fans. Or vice versa. Otherwise, [[ this happens]]. Yikes! In general, try to avoid dissing ChristopherNolan.
  461. * ''ShutterIsland'': the debate over whether or not [[spoiler:Teddy is insane.]]
  462. * Ask people on the Website/ThatGuyWithTheGlasses forums if they'll buy a DVD or go see a live screening of ''TheRoom'' now.
  463. * Sites boycotting the film ''Film/TwentyOne'' popped up in the aftermath of the "whitewash casting" controversy, and there were many netizens hating on Jeff Ma, who had a cameo in the film but didn't push for an Asian to be cast as the lead.
  464. * Whatever you do, don't mention how similar ''RepoTheGeneticOpera'' is to ''RepoMen'' in the presence of the fans of either. There will be blood.
  465. * Just for giggles, post a video on Website/YouTube with the ever-popular song "[[TeamAmericaWorldPolice America! FUCK YEAH!]] and enjoy the political FlameWar that is to follow. Actually, post ANY video on ANY subject on Youtube, and be prepared for massive amounts of jingoism, xenophobia, and opinionated political grandstanding. Flame-wars about Obama's presidency can pop up on Spongebob Squarepants videos.
  466. * ''Film/{{Inception}}'' versus ''{{Paprika}}'', and whether the former is just an unimaginative rip-off of the latter (not helped by Nolan admitting ''{{Paprika}}'' influenced ''Film/{{Inception}}'' a great deal)
  467. ** You could probably diffuse both parties by giving them a little push toward the PhilipKDick section of Amazon.
  468. ** And while we're on ''Film/{{Inception}}'', [[spoiler:Whether the top fell at the end or not. It got to the point where people contacted the costumer to see whether the kids at the end were wearing different clothes than the ones they wore throughout the rest of the film [[WordOfGod (They were)]], and to where had to moderate its own page on the film after ''[[SerialEscalation commenters started analyzing the spin of the top just to see if the lean exceeded the amount allowed by gravity]]''.]]
  469. * ''EVERY TIME'' a new movie enters the IMDb Top 250. No matter what, there's always a complaint when someone brings it up.
  470. * ''Film/TheDarkKnightRises'': Given the success and excitement surrounding the previous films, backdraft was pretty much inevitable, with arguments essentially boiling down to [[JumpingTheShark "Nolan has jumped the shark]]" vs [[MemeticMutation "In Nolan We Trust"]]. Some highlights include:
  471. ** Whether AnneHathaway can pull off Catwoman (Similar arguments surrounded whether TomHardy could pull off Bane, but these have quieted down a great deal since [[ the first still of Bane in costume was released.]]
  472. ** Whether MarionCotillard is/is not Talia Al'Ghul (Bonus points for mentioning that Josh Pence will be playing a young Ras Al'Ghul, that Joey King looks like a young Marion, and [[EpilepticTrees theorizing that]] JosephGordonLevitt [[EpilepticTrees will turn out to be the Riddler]])
  473. ** Whether Bane makes a good final villain. Supporters emphasize that [[GeniusBruiser Comic-Book Bane]] is NOTHING like [[Film/BatmanAndRobin Schumacher]] [[DumbMuscle Bane]] and cite the Knightfall story arc of how [[spoiler:Bane broke Batman's back]] as a good jumping-off point for a finale, while detractors claim that Bane has nothing going for him other than the fact that he [[spoiler:broke Batman's back]], claiming that any other villain (the most popular choice being the Riddler) would make a better final enemy.
  474. ** What role the League of Shadows will play, and whether or not Lazarus Pits will be involved, one side claiming that they wouldn't fit into Nolan's hyper realist approach while others claiming [[CreatorWorship Nolan is just so awesome he could figure out a way to make it work.]]
  475. ** Whether there are too many/too few/just the right amount of villains
  476. ** Whether or not Nolan should break his "no sidekicks" rule and include Robin, which often descend into arguments about whether you like Robin in general
  477. ** UnfortunateImplications ([[RaceLift THEY GOT A WHITE DUDE TO PLAY BANE!?!]] [[ChristopherNolan NOLAN]] [[WomenInRefrigerators CAN'T WRITE WOMEN!]])
  478. ** Even the ''title'' has people complaining about how much it sucks.
  479. ** Most notoriously, there was such an explosion of backlash against [[HePannedItNowHeSucks movie critics who gave the film "Rotten" reviews]] on RottenTomatoes that the site staff blocked all comments and even considered reworking the site's profiles so that [[{{GIFT}} users would have to use their real life Facebook identities rather than anonymous usernames]].
  480. * Never, ''ever'', '''''EVER''''' say that you like the HarryPotter films more than the books. You will be ripped to shreds by the fandom.
  481. ** Steve Kloves (the screenwriter for all the movies except ''OrderOfThePhoenix'') gets a lot of hate for the changes he made to the book. Ron/Hermione shippers (and Ron fans in general), despise him in particular for his treatment of Ron (giving many of his best lines to other characters, removing a lot of his intelligence and making him much more goofy and essentially reducing his role in the trio to PluckyComicRelief) and Hermione (giving her many of the best lines, including several of Ron's, playing up her intelligence and competence to almost MarySue-ish proportions), and his seeming preference for [[FanPreferredCouple Harry/Hermione]]. Not helped by Kloves saying that his favorite character is Hermione and many Harmonians (militant H/Hr shippers) citing the movies as evidence for their 'ship (Despite the fact that the movies aren't, y'
  482. ** Also don't lament against ''The Prisoner Of Azkaban'' (The Harry Potter equivalent of TheEmpireStrikesBack) if you know what's good for you (especially not if it's ''The Chamber of Secrets'', the equivalent of ''ThePhantomMenace'')
  483. ** Also which Dumbledore is better? Older fans will tell you Richard Harris and his CoolOldGuy, TheObiWan, authoratative portrayal was the best against the flamboyant, expressive, LargeHam-like Michael Gambon. The others would say Michael Gambon gave Dumbledore more depth and Richard Harris was just giving a Santa Claus-like portrayal. Either way the results are very ugly
  484. * ''SuckerPunch''. Hoo boy. Either it is an unabashed ode to all things geeky or an incomprehensible mess of AuthorAppeal and MaleGaze with a more than healthy dose of UnfortunateImplications. Bonus points if you use "video game" to describe it negatively.
  485. * Admit anywhere that you don't think SeltzerAndFriedberg are the worst filmmakers of all time and the sum of everything wrong with modern cinema. There's a reason their page on this wiki is locked.
  486. * Ever since ''JurassicParkIII'', bringing up [[TyrannosaurusRex T. rex]] vs. Spinosaurus and who would win will cause wars among fans.
  487. ** Ask whether or not ''Jurassic Park III'' was the better sequel or if ''The Lost World'' was.
  488. ** Heck, try even casually mentioning you like ''either'' of the sequels.
  489. ** Try asking if they should do a reboot of the franchise that's closer to the book. Fans from both sides will tear you to shreds.
  490. * ANY movie with an ambiguous ending will do this. Some people wil say that films with ambiguous endings are open to interpretation. That said endings are subject to their emotional and subjective understanding of the film. That they are designed for the audience to process during their quiet, post-watching introspection. Some people, however, want a DAMN answer and will not only expect one but get irritated when people defend the endings, seeing them as nothing more than cop outs. The side that values the ambiguity then gets frustrated and angry themselves and arguments break out. A third side that will chime in are those that claim to have it figured out and will shut out any appropriate argument back. What really exacerbates the problem is the subjectivity of ambiguous endings which makes it hard to argue in physical or practical terms. TheWrestler and ''Film/{{Inception}}'' are two films that suffered from this in recent memory.
  491. * Among black movie goers there's the debate over Romance Comedies (or any other type of comedy) vs Dramas. Some see the former as UncleTomFoolery, while some sees the latter as depressing sap fests, that show blacks as impoverished criminal stereotypes living miserable lives, and having miserable relationships. Both genres seems to be the antithesis to the other. Also bring up TylerPerry ForMassiveDamage
  492. * To that end..TylerPerry, '''Tyler Freaking Perry'''. Tyler is polarizing even among black audiences for widely different reasons. He gets criticism from both genders (though black women are mostly supportive), and the general black populace is bitterly divided over him. Though some think the dissenters are just a very vocal minority. Some of this over laps with the comedy vs drama in black movies debate mentioned above.
  493. * Is the 2012 {{Spider-Man}} reboot a great move or a horrible idea? Is Tobey Maguire the one and only Spider-Man, or will AndrewGarfield be better? Should Emma Stone have played Mary-Jane, or is she perfect as Gwen Stacy? Which is better, organic webs or mechanical web-shooters? The list goes on....
  494. ** Now with the new official pictures of the Lizard, there's been backdraft everywhere.
  495. ** And on a related note, there is a third group: the people who not only think the reboot is unnecessary, but that the original films shouldn't have been made in the first place.
  496. * Somewhat related, but even ''logos for film companies'' aren't exempt from this trope-some people perfer the [[ previous]] WaltDisney Pictures movie logo over the [[ current]] movie logo, which they [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks complain that it takes way too long]] [[NostalgiaFilter and that new people who like it don't know what Disney used to be like]].
  497. * Do NOT say at a ''PlanetOfTheApes'' forum that you liked the Tim Burton remake. The results will not be pretty. "Rise" has generated a bit of squabbling over whether it was a decent reboot or had too many flaws and MythologyGag stuff, but nowhere near the level of the 2001 remake.
  498. ** That said, just try asking if 'Rise' is an intelligent film with flaws or a failed film with too many big plotholes.
  499. ** The timelines. Good grief, the timelines. There will be heated arguments if you ask whether the original films are a circular timeline (ie the aftermath of the final film takes the world right back to the first film and the world's eventual distruction) or if Zira and Cornelius changed the future by returning to the past. (Hasselin's 'multi-lane highway theory' with its many variations).
  500. ** Can happen if you say you like 'Battle',which many consider the weakest film of all the originals.
  501. * Never, ever, '''EVER''' mention these two words to a ''Film/{{Paul}}'' fan: ''Comicbook/ScottPilgrim...'' They will skin you alive. There are a few ''Paul'' fans who like ''Scott Pilgrim'', but the majority of them despise it with a passion, passing it off as an "unfunny, geeky comic/film for boneheaded gaming nerds who like video game [[ShoutOut shout-outs]], [[ToiletHumor pee jokes]], homosexuality, and random humor". (Never mind the fact that ''Paul'' had lots of shout-outs, pee jokes, and homosexual jokes as well, had a ''Scott Pilgrim: Odds and Ends'' book seen in the background of a comic book shop in one scene, and SimonPegg himself has even stated that he loves ''Scott Pilgrim''.) For example, a Website/YouTube upload of the [[ElectricLightOrchestra ELO]] song ''All Over the World'' (which played during the end credits and epilogue of ''Paul'') had a person comment on the video saying "''Paul is this year's Scott Pilgrim!''", and then a douchebag replied to him with a comment that said something like "''Except Paul was actually a good, funny movie''", the latter comment ended up getting more thumbs up than the former comment.
  502. ** This rivalry takes on even more bewildering tones when you remember that Edgar Wright, the director of ''Scott Pilgrim'', has worked closely in the past with Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, the stars of ''Paul''. Not only that, but their previous collaborations -- ''Series/{{Spaced}}'', ''Film/ShaunOfTheDead'' and ''Film/HotFuzz'' -- are not only by and large very well regarded but are in many ways as similar in tone, style and content to both movies as you would expect. You would think that given this the two movies would have a certain amount of overlap in their audiences.
  503. * Go to a HungerGames fan forum and bring up BattleRoyale and how the former rips off the latter. Or vice versa, go to a BattleRoyale forum and tell them how you DON'T think HungerGames is a rip off. Go on.
  504. ** On the whole, ''BattleRoyale'' fans tend to be a lot more vocal and unfriendly about that issue. Better yet, go on a BR community and proclaim that ''TheHungerGames'' is ''better''. God help you.
  505. * A lot of Creator/MelGibson's work, particularly after the ''Film/LethalWeapon'' series.
  506. * Zeist in ''HighlanderIITheQuickening''. That is all.
  507. ** Worse, say you like ''Film/HighlanderTheSource'' and see what happens.
  508. ** Some will do it with any of the sequels, as they only like the original and the TV series.
  509. ** Ask whether Duncan or Connor are better.
  510. * Horror movie fans on ''everything''. If a franchise gets popular, they will trash it. If a horror film gets acclaimed and the fan is underwhelmed, they cry "Worst movie ever!". If a horror film is rated PG-13, they blindly bash it (despite the fact there have been some good PG-13 horror films). This is a fanbase that acts as if there hasn't been any good horror movies since the 1980's and will defend even the worst 1980's horror film simply because it came out then. No wonder why Hollywood has stopped trying to pander to this base.
  511. * If anyone says they even remotely like The Last Airbender, prepare to be burned with the hottest flames of hell from all the fans of the TV show who know that M Night Shyamalan absolutely ruined it.
  512. * As of TheExpendables, especially after the sequel was nearly made a PG-13 after ChuckNorris objected to the language, just mentioning PG-13, especially in reference to Creator/ArnoldSchwarzenegger and SylvesterStallone, is enough to start very passionate arguements that true action movies can never be PG-13 or lower. A favorite arguement is that whenever Arnold and Sly do movies rated lower than R, it rarely if ever works out. Yes, '''[[BatmanAndRobin THAT MOVIE]]''' does get brought up.
  513. * Actually, Remakes of ''anything'' in general. You're bound to get a flame war from rabid fans of the older take of any remake by saying you liked it.
  515. ----
  517. [Literature]
  519.  * '''''Literature/TheBible.''''' That is all.
  520. ** Really, any religious book.
  521. * If you ever happen to wander into a JaneAusten fan community, never, ever mention Fanny Price. However polite and proper and old ladylike you might think Austen fans are, they can get as crazy as anyone else when the subject of her comes up.
  522. ** And whatever you do, don't bring up the ITV specials. Especially "Mansfield Park".
  523. ** It's also prudent not to state strong opinions about Marianne Dashwood, particularly if you have thoughts on whether she should have ended up with Willoughby or Colonel Brandon.
  524. * The next time you find yourself in a situation that necessitates causing a punch-up at a fantasy convention, go into a crowded room and yell "The [[LordOfTheRings Balrog]] has (no) wings!" Some fatalities are likely.
  525. ** If such a discussion ''does'' start, you can try to defuse it by changing the question about the Balrog to [[ if it had fluffy slippers]], as it [[{{Narm}} fully did in Bakshi's animated version]].
  526. ** Even people who agree about Balrog wings or the lack thereof can sometimes find themselves at each other's throats over the issue of whether or not Balrogs can fly.
  527. * The flame wars over the merits of the works of Creator/RobertAHeinlein have been raging since before the World Wide Web was invented.
  528. ** "Sircar's Corollary to GodwinsLaw" states that if Heinlein, or especially ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'', is brought up in a conversation, ThoseWackyNazis will be mentioned within three days.
  529. * Here's a neat trick. Walk into a ''Theatre/LesMiserables'' forum and throw a metaphorical dart. 75% percent of the time you'll hit one of the following arguments: Cosette vs. Eponine, Frances Ruffelle vs. Lea Salonga, or Michael Maguire vs. Anthony Warlow.
  530. * ''Literature/HarryPotter'':
  531. ** Severus Snape: [[TheWoobie poor bullied]] TragicHero with a HiddenHeartOfGold, or [[FantasticRacism racist]] [[SchoolyardBullyAllGrownUp child-abusing]] JerkAss with a completely MisaimedFandom? Have fun with that. Note that there is still wanking several years after the series finished.
  532. ** Say how much Harry Potter sucks to Twilight. You'll get 3rd degree burns.
  533. ** Ginny, just plain and simple. Bring her up and you'll hear that she and Harry belonged together, or that she's just a fan girl who doesn't love the real Harry Potter.
  534. *** Same for Ron. Hermione too.
  535. *** Wonder whether or not Ginny is a slut for having three boyfriends in two years and kissing one of them in a deserted corridor. It will not be pretty.
  536. ** Dumbledore, a manipulative bastard or not?
  537. *** Bonus points for using "the Dursleys," "Severus Snape" and "Tom Riddle" all in one sentence.
  538. ** Say [[Film/HarryPotter the movies]] are better than the books and that the first two films were too long and faithful. Declare that SteveKloves and/or AlfonsoCuaron are brilliant.
  539. ** There's a whole artform of not saying either "Philosopher's Stone" or "Sorcerer's Stone" because they'll both start {{Flame War}}s full of MisplacedNationalism. The first installment of the series must always be referred to as "the first book" or "the first movie". If it's already well-established that you're talking about ''Harry Potter'' installments, it can be innocently abbreviated as "''Stone''". If you have to refer to the object, say "the stone of the title" or "the titular stone". It's the only way, my friend.
  540. ** Say almost anything from [[ this video]].
  541. ** Talk about the moderately [[BaseBreaker base-breaking]] epilogue and final climax of ''DeathlyHallows''.
  542. * Similar to the ''Twilight'' effect, mentioning R.A. Salvatore's [[TheLegendOfDrizzt Drizzt]] series on just about any ''Forgotten Realms'' forum is going to set the forum on fire, haters and lovers will clash over and over again, even the seasoned forum-goers seem to ignore the obvious flamebait.
  543. * ''ASongOfIceAndFire'': "Hey, what's Martin's deal? It's been years since ''A Feast for Crows''. When is he going to write this book? Is he lazy? Does he hate fans?" Oh, the flames. The flames.
  544. ** Also, expressing any strong opinion regarding Catelyn Stark is generally like to spark a flame war between those who see her as a truly tragic [[TheWoobie woobie]] and those who think she is a self-pitying moron.
  545. ** Cersei's [[spoiler:Walk of Shame]] in ''A Dance with Dragons''. Opinions are divided on whether her punishment was too lenient, too harsh, or just plain sexist.
  546. ** Don your flameproof suit, then say that Darkstar is a totally awesome badass character you want to see more of.
  547. ** Run for your life if you happen to mention that you think Daario is pretty badass and perfect for Daenerys.
  548. ** Mention that you like the POV chapters from any Greyjoy character that is not Theon or Asha and find them interesting.
  549. * Mention ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' '''''anywhere on the internet'''''. Just mention it, and watch as fans and anti-fans tear themselves apart over it.
  550. ** Among fans, any character interpretation, any ship, any scene, ANY DETAIL. There will be a strong enough anti-anything faction to start a good-sized war. Most common: Edward's abusive, Jacob's forced kiss was in no way sexual harrassment, Bella's the most anti-feminist character ever... and you can't mention BreakingDawn in any capacity without starting some shit.
  551. ** [[ This is the freakin motherload of stories from this trope.]] But which ones are true "attacks" of the rabid Twitards? Which ones are inventions coming from rabid Twihaters [[WoundedGazelleGambit who want to play victim]]? (Hint: [[ More than one]]) Which were submitted by trolls for the lulz? Ask about them, and get ready to be stoned by both fans and haters.
  552. ** A funner and simpler way is to just say that Twilight sucks, plain and simple. Especially on any site like [[GaiaOnline gaia.]]
  553. *** Bonus points if you say either TheHungerGames or HarryPotter is better.
  554. ** Edward or Jacob?
  555. * Same goes for the ''InheritanceCycle''.
  556. * The ''WheelOfTime'' series also kicks these off regularly, with backdrafts being caused by fans arguing over which is the best book or character, or by someone innocently asking who killed a minor character in Book 5 (an unimportant mystery that has nevertheless probably generated more discussion than the rest of the series put together), or if Jordan deliberately doubled the length of the series to make money or if it was instead a valid artistic decision. Probably the most devastating backdrafts can be caused by claiming that the male-female relationships in the books can be construed as unhealthy, juvenile, unrealistic, not particularly funny or somewhat sexist, which can generate counter-arguments from some fans of epic proportions. The choice of writer to finish the series after Jordan's death also generated considerable heat.
  557. * Ask if ''SecondApocalypse'' is sexist.
  558. * And another thing... there is now ''[[Literature/HitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy And Another Thing]]''.
  559. * Anywhere on the Internet, make a topic about Creator/AynRand. Positive or negative. Doesn't matter. The sheer volume of FanDumb and HateDumb guarantees a nice flamewar.
  560. * Mention the ''Literature/{{Gor}}'' series...well...''anywhere''. Bring popcorn.
  561. * ''Literature/WarriorCats''. Bring up FantasticRacism, use the phrase "MarySue," and utter the name "Ashfur." Bonus points if you can get all three in the same post. Also, [[UnpleasableFanbase is it]] TheyChangedItNowItSucks or ItsTheSameNowItSucks? For that matter, bring up the UnpleasableFanbase itself.
  562. * In-universe example: in the short story [[ "Wikihistory"]], by Desmond Warzel, time-traveler forum poster "[=SaucyAussie=]" seems concerned that discussion of certain sensitive historical events carries the risk of InternetBackdraft:
  563. -->''At 17:12:52, [=SaucyAussie=] wrote:''
  564. -->[=AsianAvenger=], you're not rehashing that whole Nagasaki issue again, are you? We just got everyone calmed down from last time.
  565. * [[Literature/TheIliad Are Achilles and Patroclus having sex?]] For bonus points, this debate has been raging '''since ancient Athens'''.
  566. * Similar to the Theater example, go ahead and bring up Gelphie or Fiyerba in any [[TheWickedYears Wicked]] forum. For the most part the fandom is fairly polite about it's shipping (and both of them are technically [[WordOfGay canon]]) but brought up in the wrong space it can get...ugly.
  567. * Things can get ugly in some ''Literature/{{Animorphs}}'' forums if you mention actually liking Cassie.
  568. * ''Literature/TheHungerGames''. Particularly the third book.
  569. * JamesJoyce, or any author known for [[TrueArtIsIncomprehensible "experimental"]] literature, including ThomasPynchon and DavidFosterWallace.
  570. * Treat yourself to a crate of wine/beer/other drink of choice. Make sure you have plenty of food to hand, preferably ready-cooked. Then go to a HisDarkMaterials forum and suggest that Will and Lyra actually had sex (or didn't). Watch the fun run and run!
  571. * Terry Pratchett's ''Literature/{{Discworld}}''. Pratchett fans are generally a laid-back easy-going lot, but a surefire way for them to get riled is if a Harry Potter fan drops by and accuses Pratchett of talentlessly plagiarising the creation of the Blessed Joanna Katherine. As Pratchett's fans point out, Unseen University predates Hogwarts by fourteen years, and in any case is drawn from the same mediaeval folklore JKR must have consulted when creating Hogwarts. The young wizard Ponder Stibbons might be drawn in a suspiciously similar way to Harry Potter, but his visual depiction predates HP by a good two years and if plagiarism has hapened, it would therefore have required a time machine....
  572. ** Similarly, opening a debate as to whether Sir Terry's earliest books are the best and/or stating the later ones have lost the spark and are just an author, bored with his creation, going through the motions....
  574. [Live Action TV]
  576.  * Any discussion of which character in a certain role was better:
  577. * Mike or Joel of ''MST3K'' used to be like this to the point where it was a banned topic on all MST3K discussion groups. In the years since the show ended, this topic has cooled down enough that people may have polite conversations about it, but such fights were very heavy during the 90s.
  578. ** The show itself got in a great TakeThat when Joel returned for a guest spot: Mike gets jealous about how well Joel's life has gone and asks "What's he got that I don't?!", to which Tom replies "Don't compare yourself, man. It ain't healthy."
  579. ** Interestingly, if you study of one of the most active boards during the switch (and, more importantly, one of the few to have archived their posts), Usenet group, you will see comparatively little flame warring over Joel/Mike. It seems that, for at least one board, much more anger and vitriol was spilled over whether certain elements of the show were sexist and if Jim Mallon had been instrumental in "forcing" Joel out.
  580. * Other captains get it too, but principally "Kirk or Picard?" of ''Franchise/StarTrek''. Music/WeirdAlYankovic's parody "White and Nerdy" references this:
  581. --->''Only question I ever thought was hard''\\
  582. ''Was "Do I like [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries Kirk]], or do I like [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Picard?]]"''
  583. ** Depending on who you're talking to, don't mention to a hardcore ''Star Trek'' fan that you like ''[[Series/StarTrekVoyager Voyager]]'', ''[[Series/StarTrekEnterprise Enterprise]]'', [[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]], or [[Film/StarTrek the Abrams film]]. A large proportion of fans will hate at least one of these, and it's sometimes not easy to tell which. Insulting Voyager, [=DS9=] or Enterprise is also another major cause of flamewars when fans rush to defend them, while the Abrams film is more of a BaseBreaker.
  584. ** Is [[Series/StarTrekVoyager Janeway]] a raging psychotic bitch or a brilliant and daring captain?
  585. ** Ship wars. Good grief, the ship wars.
  586. *** Were [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries Kirk and Spock]] [[HoYay doing it]]? Did they, at any point, ''want'' to do it? And did they ever actually do it? The result is a bonfire hot enough to power a warp engine.
  587. ** [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration Wesley Crusher]]: CreatorsPet, or much-needed, well-liked addition of youth to the cast? Bonus points if you ever argued the latter on Wil Wheaton Dot Net's forums.
  588. ** Here's a quick way to start a flame war. Go onto Website/YouTube and/or any ''Star Trek'' forum. Find a video/thread about Q. Make a [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic reference to Discord.]] Sit back, and enjoy the flames.
  589. * ''Series/ICarly'': Creddie or Seddie? Or Cam?
  590. ** By extension, ''iOMG''.
  591. ** The creator of the show ended up involved with this when he joined the fandom and started blogging about the show. It eventually got so bad, that they eventually wrote an episode with a blatant AuthorTract from the main characters telling a bunch of crazed fans that the show is a comedy and not a relationship drama. ItGotWorse.
  592. * The ReTool of ''Series/{{Stargate SG-1}}''. Just decide on your opinion and go to the appropriate pro/anti thread (i.e. "The Pro(Anti) Season 10 Thread") if you want to keep your sanity.
  593. * "I Hate Carter" communities. Do not wake the beast that is the ''Series/{{Stargate SG-1}}'' fandom.
  594. ** Mentioning that you think it's a great idea for Carter to crossover to ''Series/StargateAtlantis'' in the Atlantis fandom. The actor who plays Rodney [=McKay=] actually got booed at a convention for this. Not that it stopped the writers from actually doing so.
  595. ** All it took was the producers to mention that ''Series/StargateUniverse'' would featured a younger cast and was partly intended to draw in new viewers for immediate assumptions to be made that the series would be nothing more than a soap opera aimed at teenagers. Eventually the producers decided to announce that this was very much not the case, especially considering the lead character (ironically named Colonel Young) would be about the same age Jack was at the start of ''SG-1''.
  596. * There are several ways to do this in ''Series/DoctorWho'' forums, including:
  597. ** Whether the new series or the old series is better -- this can then turn into a four-sided fight when the DoctorWhoExpandedUniverse is mentioned
  598. ** Just about anything to do with the MadeForTVMovie.
  599. *** Although in some parts of the internet it's widely accepted that it's SoBadItsGood and Paul [=McGann=] did the best he could with the material he got. The only ''real'' question is whether it's canon.
  600. ** RussellTDavies -- is he a good or bad writer?
  601. ** Who was the best Doctor? (Which has at least eleven sides in the fight.)
  602. ** And almost anything to do with Rose Tyler and/or BilliePiper.
  603. ** The hilariously titled "UNIT dating controversy", as described on the other wiki.
  604. ** Are the sexual innuendos and {{double entendre}}s since "The Doctor Dances" clever [[ParentalBonus parental bonuses]] or just a cheap attempt to go HotterAndSexier?
  605. ** Was ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'' needed? Or, indeed, any good?
  606. *** Was Ianto or Gwen any good? And who did Jack love more?
  607. *** Just try saying "[[LovePotion rape spray]]" and see what happens.
  608. ** Some guy called Lawrence Miles wrote some DoctorWhoExpandedUniverse fiction once. Posters on OutpostGallifrey, ''Behind the Sofa'' and other fora/blogs seem to have very strong opinions about this fact. Mainly because Miles himself has some very strong opinions about the new series.
  609. ** Canon status of the books, audios and comics. Just start a thread called "The books are not canon" and stand well back. ''Then'' say that ''Doctor Who'' doesn't have an official canon or UniverseBible.
  610. *** Speaking of the books and ExpandedUniverse, the argument over whether the books should be 'rad' (i.e. more adult, playing around with the traditional formulas and, usually, DarkerAndEdgier) or 'trad' (staying as close as possible to the tone and formulas of the original series as possible, just in a different format) were guaranteed to cause online meltdowns for a while. Since the new series came along and completely stole the Expanded Universe's thunder, however, these arguments have by and large quietened down.
  611. ** Just say Looms around any ''Doctor Who'' fan.
  612. ** Say that [[TheScrappy Adric]] or [[ScreamingWoman Mel]] were fantastic companions.
  613. *** Conversely, use caution when bringing up ''[[BigFinishDoctorWho The Boy That Time Forgot]]'' around Adric fans.
  614. ** By this point, anyone who goes onto a ''Series/DoctorWho'' forum and innocently wonders whether Paul [=McGann=] will be making a guest appearance in the new series as the Eighth Doctor -- no doubt in a story which explains what happened in the Time War once and for all and shows his regeneration -- deserves exactly what they get.
  615. ** For years the main Doctor Who newsgroup, rec.arts.drwho, was plagued by flamewars between defenders of the Seventh Doctor, Sylvester [=McCoy=] and the quality of stories in his era (called "pro-[=McCoy=] trolls" by their enemies), and their detractors (sometimes called "Hatfields" in a punning reference to the Hatfield-[=McCoy=] feud of Appalachia). The argument became so heated because it took in whether [=McCoy=]'s seasons, the last three before Doctor Who's sixteen-year hiatus, were the cause of its cancellation or a high point that was tragically cut short by it. Arguments and heated language still surround the subject on rec.arts.drwho, but since the new series has been airing it has become possible to discuss it politely, if carefully, on many Doctor Who forums.
  616. ** Discussions of the Third Doctor can sometimes result in one of these; this stems mainly from an interview given by one of the writers of the ExpandedUniverse novels which derided the Third Doctor along the lines of him being an imperialist right-wing tool of the Establishment because he used to work with the soldiers in UNIT, in contrast to the apparently anti-establishment nature of the other Doctors. Connected to the above, for some reason there seems to be particular tension between fans of the Third Doctor and fans of the Seventh Doctor along these lines.
  617. *** "For some reason" being that many Seventh Doctor TV stories were {{Anvilicious}} left-wing polemics to some degree or other, so fans of the era tend to be pretty leftist in real life.
  618. ** Mentioning that you don't like River Song is a good way to get people to insult you and give you [[FanDumb death threats]].
  619. ** Hey, question; is the series a ''children's'' show (i.e. a show intended for kids, but which adults form a significant PeripheryDemographic of) or a ''family'' show (i.e. a show in which adults are intended to be part of the audience to begin with)? Again, ''seems'' like it would be a straightforward question (or even a slightly pedantic distinction either way) but oh, the amount of energy expounded in lengthy diatribes and nerd rage (on ''both'' sides) over ''that'' one could fuel a small country. Forever. %%%And that is all we shall say. Please no natter.
  620. ** Asking if MattSmith is a good Doctor inevitably brings up arguments. Asking if he's attractive might, as well.
  621. ** TheMaster gets a lot of this as well. Which was the best incarnation? Was he better as a ManipulativeBastard or as a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds? Or both? Was "The Drums" a good explanation for his insanity, or a poor excuse to make fans feel sorry for him? No two fans will agree on any of them.
  622. *** Mention his HeroicSacrifice. On second thought, don't.
  623. *** Here's a good one, try asking whether or not they should've revealed the Master as the Doctor's brother or not. Or that they were going to be the same person. Fans will tear each other apart within seconds of anyone asking this.
  624. *** Mention you ''liked''' Eric Robert's portrayal as the Master. Or, simply mention you find his performance underrated.
  625. *** On the inverse, mention you hated JohnSimm or Roger Delgado's portrayals. Or that they're overrated.
  626. *** Try mentioning you find JohnSimm to be unattractive...or ask if he's hot. You will not get far.
  627. *** [[FoeYay Master X Doctor pairings]]. Just acknowleding the pairing exists on a Doctor Who forum (or any Doctor Who related discussion) will almost always guarantee a flame war.
  628. ** Try to call The Doctor "Theta" and claim it's his real name. You will not survive the oncoming flame war. Though, you might get away with calling TheMaster "Koschei", but don't ask if the name is canon to the series or not.
  629. ** Go onto ''any'' Website/YouTube video showing a clip featuring an actor from the series. Now, try to post a reference to Doctor Who. The flames will commence immediately.
  630. ** The 2012 Olympics. No, seriously. Try mentioning you think DavidTennant should've been there to light the torch. You'll start a flame war between Who fans and everyone else immediately. Heck, you'll start a flame war ''among'' Who fans as well.
  631. ** Are Time Lords an actual species or is "Gallifreyian" the correct term with "Time Lord" simply being a title? No two fans will agree.
  632. ** Do '''not''' mention Steven Moffat's departure from Twitter in 2012 (he left due to receiving death threats from people) at all. The results won't be pretty.
  633. ** Try asking whether or not the companion who's to be introduced in the 2012 Christmas special is Oswin from the series 7 premiere. You'll have a flame war large enough to decimate the Amazon Rainforest in minutes.
  634. * This happens whenever RobinWilliams is brought up on an internet forum. Cue the funny/not funny/only funny in the early days camps getting all up in arms at each other.
  635. ** On comedy forums, this will also dredge up his reputation for 'stealing' material from lesser-known talent. Add a community of amateur/upcoming comedians and you can guess the reaction.
  636. * British comedy in particular seems to get this. Was the 1970s a GoldenAge or not? Was the 1990s? Is British comedy rubbish since ''TheOffice''? Is the purpose of comedy to make people laugh, or is there a higher calling? In some corners of the Internet, either an affirmative or negative answer to any of these questions will have people lunging through their ''monitors'' to beat the living snot out of you.
  637. ** RickyGervais - an edgy genius drawing needed attention to societal issues, or a down-punching bully playing for cheap laughs behind a veneer of irony? Whichever side of the fence you're on, someone's going to call you out on it.
  638. * ChannelFour's official ''BigBrother'' forum is populated by {{Single Issue Wonk}}s who see virtually everything that happens on the show as evidence of bullying and/or racism, to the extent that people joke about running a sweepstake on when those issues would first raise their ugly heads whenever a new series begins. This led to some pretty epic {{Flame War}}s, not helped by the inconsistent moderation. More recently the Shilpa Shetty racism row left the [=SIWs=] with a sense of smug vindication that didn't fade when Shilpa herself invoked the MST3KMantra.
  639. * Who would win in a fight between any given ''Franchise/StarTrek'' versus any given ''StarWars'' ship (not ''that'' kind of {{ship|ping}}). Numerous websites have been created around this all important question. The most popular is the ''Enterprise-D'' against a ''Star Destroyer''; what nearly all of these sites ignore ([[MST3KMantra likely in the interests of fun]]) is that those series were two of the most egregious examples of SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale, making most comparisons meaningless. (The fights usually start like this. "The ''Enterprise'''s shields are immune to lasers!" -- "The Star Destroyers mount ''turbo''lasers, which plainly don't act in any way that a normal laser could..."
  640. ** '''200-gigaton''' turbolasers. On that note, the ''Incredible Cross Sections'' books, and the ExpandedUniverse in general.
  641. ** Isn't the Enterprise basically a diplomatic ship? Didn't a diplomatic ship not fair so well against a Star Destroyer in like the first five minutes of Star Wars?
  642. * Even within the Star Wars fandom, mentioning the ICS can spark a civil war.
  643. ** Hell, any sci-fi versus argument where both franchises being debated have large, vocal fanbases count.
  644. * It's been fifteen years, but the one central debate in the ''PowerRangers'' fandom is apparently whether Ranger [[GodModeSue uber-stu]] Tommy Oliver belongs with Kimberly (his first love, whose actress quit the show in a snit) or Kat (Kimberly's replacement, with whom he was shown to be married and have kids in a flash-forward episode widely ignored by much of the fandom). The series itself seems to have {{Jossed}} ''both'' pairings, but even bringing ''that'' up will get you killed.
  645. ** Also, do not mention "Forever Red". The near-instantaneous backdraft has been known to kill people, despite only being on a computer screen.
  646. *** Which raises the question of why people [[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids old enough to care about things like that]] are watching it in the first place.
  647. ** What about if Kimberly belongs with Tommy or Jason?
  648. ** Ask whether Kimberly or Kira is hotter. The debating will ''not'' stop.
  649. *** Say a ranger besides either one of them are the hottest. You will be attacked forever.
  650. ** Don't ever say that the original seasons weren't the best.
  651. * ''Series/{{CSI}}'''s Fur and Loathing. Beginning to die out now that most furs find it more ridiculous than offensive, but...
  652. ** You also have little to fear in bringing it up since the majority of people find furs more ridiculous than offensive.
  653. ** There are some wars of the ship variety too. For example, saying you like Danny/Lindsay can get some ''CSINY''places going. Ditto with regular CSI if you want to discuss Grissom/Sara. It's died down a bit since they first became canon, but things flare up every now and then.
  654. ** Also, just Ray Langston in general. Debating him can really raise a ruckus between the pro-Ray and anti-Ray groups.j
  655. ** Also, try bringing up ''CSIMiami'' and Horatio Caine in some of the NY or Las Vegas version areas. Then watch the flames heat up.
  656. * Throw a dart on a ''BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' forum. You'll still find arguments. Especially of the shipping war variety.
  657. ** The words "Seeing Red" work ''really'' well.
  658. ** And while you're at it, casually mention you hate [[ShipToShipCombat Angel/Buffy, Spike/Buffy]] ''[[ShipToShipCombat and]]'' [[ShipToShipCombat Angel/Cordelia]].
  659. ** For that matter, mention that you actually liked Buffy/Riley. Bonus points for saying it was better than Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike, which will draw in more incensed fans ''and'' bring in another argument. Even saying you liked Riley himself, or that he's decent, is a seriously [[IdiotBall bad]] idea.
  660. ** Never let anyone know you ship, or are at least okay with, Xander/Dawn unless you want to be called a paedophile or lectured on how it's basically incest.
  661. * Mention just about anything on a ''Series/{{Supernatural}}'' forum and you will be caught up in a flame war so fast that it would make your head spin. Some of the classics:
  662. ** Any discussion of the differences between Sam and Dean's characters will devolve into a scuffle over which brother is better. This may or may not include bitter assertions that the writers are favoring one brother and shortchanging the other.
  663. ** Recurring female characters of the appropriate age to be love interests tend to inspire hate, defensiveness, and accusations of misogyny all around. Just try discussing the merits of Jo, Bela, or Ruby as characters.
  664. ** Speaking of, go to a forum and say you like Bela.
  665. ** Is the {{mytharc}} stupid, or are the MonsterOfTheWeek episodes just filler? Do you really want to ask?
  666. ** Bring up the incredibly high deathcount of female recurring characters (something like two or three survive from the entire series). And the fact that almost all of them die in fire and/or a stab in the gut, reminiscent of Mary Winchester's death in the pilot - expression of misogyny, thematic resonance, or both?
  667. *** Likewise the death of all the BadAss black male characters.
  668. ** Try suggesting in some forums that Wincest is gross, and you will lose your eyebrows to the resulting fireball.
  669. ** Anything negative about Destiel, and you'll probably be missing major appendages by the end.
  670. *** The tide's starting to turn. Now both negative and positive comments about Destiel get flamed in turns.
  671. **** Just mention Destiel and stand back. There will be flames from all sides.
  672. * A small but extremely vocal minority of ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|Classic}}'' fans continue to maintain that the original series (in which, remember, monkeys were used to portray robot dogs) is superior to the [[Series/BattlestarGalacticaReimagined newer]], usually citing ratings to back up their argument and becoming angry to the point of hysteria when reminded that their dream project, a continuation of the original show with much of the original cast, was about to go into production when it was delayed by 9/11 and the Sci-Fi Channel had second thoughts and decided to go for the reimagining instead, which they took personally. These fans proclaim the new show to be "''Galactica'' In Name Only" (GINO), which amused the new series producer Ronald D. Moore so much he named a character "Gina" in their honour, which didn't help matters much.
  673. ** Also, do not mention the new ''Battlestar Galactica'' around fans of ''Babylon 5'', who seem to think Moore has ripped off J. Michael Straczynski's magnum opus. (Possibly guilt by association with ''Star Trek: Deep Space 9'' a series frequently accused of borrowing liberally from ''Bablyon 5''; Moore was the co-executive producer of ''Deep Space 9'')
  674. ** The finale has opened entire cans of worms: [[spoiler:Kara's disappearance, giving up technology, the timeline, etc...]]
  675. ** Athena vs Boomer -- even when the territory is ostenibly about the actress, flame wars about which version of the same character will erupt.
  676. ** Saying that you like either "Black Market" or "The Woman King" is probably not a good idea.
  677. * ''AmericanIdol''. Bring up season 2's finale on certain boards, and watch everything go up in flames. Season 8 is starting to look like it'll be equally inflammatory.
  678. ** Speaking of Season 8, go into any ''LiveJournal'' community for it and bring up any permutation of [[DieForOurShip Kradam vs. Kraty.]] THEN RUN LIKE THE MOTHERFUCKING WIND.
  679. *** Even better, bring up the Season 11 finale and say whether you agree or disagree with the results. Then sit back and watch the flames erupt.
  680. ** Try mentioning that you think the latter seasons (After Simon Cowell left) are better than the former seasons.
  681. *** Heck, just try saying you think (insert judge here) is better than (insert judge here) or that you think the show got better once (insert judge here) left the show. You will not make it out in one piece.
  682. ** Simon Cowell. Is he just an extremely strict judge on what qualifies as talent who is only doing his job, or his he a complete JerkAss who takes joy in shattering people's dreams by insulting them? No two fans will agree.
  683. * Venture onto a ''Terminator:TheSarahConnorChronicles'' board and mention ''Dollhouse'', or vice-versa. Then stand back as the foaming at the mouth begins.
  684. * And ''{{Dollhouse}}'' in general: is it attacking sexualised abuse of women and wider dehumanisation for commercial entertainment, or wallowing in it while pretending to attack it?
  685. ** Announce that ''{{Dollhouse}}'' is the best thing JossWhedon's ever made. Bonus points if you're in the company of [[Series/{{Firefly}} Browncoats]].
  686. *** Speaking of Browncoats, go just about anywhere science-fiction TV is discussed (including this wiki) and suggest that ''Series/{{Firefly}}'' is anything other than perfect and without flaw.
  687. ** Speaking of Joss Whedon in general, criticise his reputation as a feminist or his depiction of women. Then enter your nuclear fallout shelter buried deep within a mountain and bunker down. Oh, you don't have one of these? Poor you...
  688. *** Depends on the forum. In some parts nowadays, praising Whedon as a feminist will get you dogpiled by people explaining in exhaustive detail what a hypocritical misogynist he is.
  689. * Go to any discussion on ''TheDailyShow'' and say you think Jon's started to take the show too seriously. ''TheDailyShow'': where serious business is SeriousBusiness.
  690. * ''{{Smallville}}''. It used to be that merely saying you loved/hated Lana would require you to bring a fire extinguisher. However, after the first few seasons the civil war over Lana wore the hatred of Lana pretty much became the ''majority consensus'' as time went by. Now, saying you liked or God forbid loved Lana is what brings the flames out.
  691. ** The Chlois Theory debate can still be agitated even though it ''has never calmed down'' for the past '''''six years'''''. (For the uninitiated, the Chlois Theory was basically about the fervent desire of many Chloe fans for the original character of Chloe to ''become Lois Lane'' so that she could "win" Clark; this theory continued ''even after Lois Lane was brought onto the show.'')
  692. *** Try being a {{Smallville}} fan who doesn't mind the deviations from {{Superman}} comic book canon, or expressing the view that you ''liked'' the witches/lost artifacts storyline from Season 4, or saying that you ''don't'' think that every new plot development is a "retcon." Or, perhaps worst of all, try expressing the opinion that Chloe Sullivan is '''NOT''' the living embodiment of perfection. The InternetBackdraft will probably burn you to a smoldering crisp.
  693. * ''Series/BabylonFive'': Sheridan, or Sinclair. While probably nowhere near the levels of some of these other examples('Fivers' tend to be much more calm about this show, amazingly enough), the result is probably going to still be interesting, to say the least. For that matter, if there were 4 seasons, or 5. The fandom seems to be split on this one.
  694. ** Calm? Try telling a 'Fiver' that the displayed power levels for weapons and shield/armour resistances seem poor (for example the infamous 2 megaton nuclear mine from [=In the Beginning=]) or try to claim that the Vorlon planet killer did anything other than reduce the target planet to it's component atoms (we never see how it destroys planets) and make sure you're saying this from within the safety of an asbestos bunker.
  695. * ''Series/{{Heroes}}'': Volume 4 ending, An Invisible Thread. While other fans approve of the developments in the finale, the Nathan and Sylar fan contingents have joined forces and are baying for ''blood''. It's not pretty, bring bandages and aloe vera if you venture in.
  696. ** Heck, just bring up when you think the show jumped the shark (or if it ever did) and watch the anger build.
  697. ** After it was revealed that Adrian Pasdar only found out he was fired when reading his character's death scene, the anger among his fans could probably be measured in megatons.
  698. * A rather amusing case from a while back, when the 'Retribution' episode of ''HoratioHornblower'' aired, [[spoiler:which had a popular character die saving Horatio's life and career]], so many people went to the A&E boards to react to it that the servers actuallly ''crashed''.
  699. * ''Series/{{Merlin}}''. Season 2. Five words: [[JumpTheShark Did it jump the shark]]? That is all. Bonus points if you take a side on the [[FanPreferredCouple Arthur/Morgana & Arthur/Merlin]] [[ShipToShipCombat vs.]] [[OfficialCouple Arthur/Gwen]] shipping war.
  700. ** Increase that Season 2 discussion by a few degrees and you've got the post-Season 4 talks.
  701. * [[TheTonightShow Jay Leno fans vs. Conan O'Brien fans.]] About the only thing they have in common is a fiery hatred for TooDumbToLive NBC executive Jeff Zucker.
  702. * The latest episode (3x07) of Series/{{Chuck}} has caused this due to extreme shipper issues: [[ c4441503162851562400 Chuck, "Chuck vs. the Mask": Night at the museum]], [[ Chuck: Schwartz and Fedak vs. the controversy]], [[ The Double-Edged Sword Of Devotion: 'Chuck' Vs. The Entitled Fan Base]]
  703. * Series/{{Lost}}. Oh, Lost. What causes more wank: that it's got more [[ShipToShipCombat ships]] than the Spanish Armada, that its [[GambitPileup complex]] [[ContinuityLockOut storylines]] and [[FlashbacksAndChronology time]] [[TimeTravel jumping]] lead to slightly overinvested analyses, or that it's run by a couple of {{Promoted Fanboy}}s who know ''far'' too well how to stir both bases' pots? And that's not mentioning the once-vast amount of {{Fan Hater}}s...That's not even the tip of the iceberg. There's part of the fanbase that are bitter, ''bitter'' over whether or not the show was making the plot up as it went along during the early season, and whether or not it's suffering from the TheChrisCarterEffect.
  704. ** Post finale it's 10x worse. Most forums are split over whether the finale was the best episode of the series or a pointless cop-out that allowed the writers to avoid answering any questions. Not to mention those angered that the popular Jacket/Skate ship alignment was thrown aside despite it being built up as the endgame since the end of Season 5. AND not to mention those offended by the religious undertones of the final scene.
  705. * {{Jericho}}:while it will always be dangerous to go into any forum and declare a preference for [[ShippingWars Emily or Heather]]. Things really went [[IncrediblyLamePun nuts]] after two different groups (one based out of Jeritopia chat room and another from [[ Shaun O'Mac's]] show chat) claimed to have originated the campaign to save the show. the melee the ensued was so nasty it killed the second campaign to save the show and eventually most of the fandom itself. Hell these days there is so little activity in that corner not because everyone's lost interest but because so few fans can stand each other long enough to have a conversation about it. (The real irony is that its entirely possible that the idea came from someone posting in both chats concurrently as several were known to do. So both sides actually may be right.)
  706. * Just about anywhere, and ''certainly'' in this wiki, suggest that ''Series/{{Firefly}}'' is not perfect and without flaw.
  707. ** Bring up the fact that the series is about a blended American-Chinese culture, yet no Asian actors were cast in any of the lead roles, and only one was given any lines even in minor roles. The consensus is that it was an accidental oversight, but whether it was because of Joss being occupied with trying to keep the show afloat, or whether all the Chinese stuff was just window-dressing is heavily contested.
  708. ** Or mention that [[TheWoobie Kaylee]] is never anything but a useless, helpless little DamselInDistress unless engines are involved.
  709. * Every episode of ''DeadliestWarrior'' can, and likely will, provoke some of these. Because they deal with such SeriousBusiness topics as warriors throughout history, martial arts, military, guns, firearms, swords, etc, as well as the age old "who would win in a fight?" question, someone's panties will get twisted as soon as an episode airs.
  710. ** It's pretty much for this reason alone that the producers refuse to do a 'Pirates Vs. Ninjas' episode.
  711. * Go onto any ''Series/{{Survivor}}'' forum and mention Russell Hantz, and you'll have flames hotter than any campfire ever started in the game.
  712. ** And not a day goes by without someone inciting another argument about whether people who have won the game deserve to be called the "best player" of their particular season for actually, y'know, ''winning'', versus a CreatorsPet whom the editors deemed to be the better player, or if an extremely strategic player "should" have won over a less strategic but more socially-adept and/or challenge-adept player.
  713. * Go onto any ''BigBrother'' (US version) forum and in USENET and mention Natalie Martinez and you'll have flames hotter than in the backyard grill explosion they ever had in the game.
  714. ** For a few years, you couldn't even ''mention'' anything positive about contestant [[UnpopularPopularCharacter Evel Dick Donato]] without someone bringing up Dick's rather cruel treatment of a certain contestant, or the validity of his win(certain scenes during the live feed footage led some fans to think that Season 8 might have been rigged in his favor).
  715. * Find a Series/{{House}}/Wilson community, any House/Wilson community, and mention "Huddy". Cue the raging inferno.
  716. * Don't ever... EVER... call FatherTed a BritCom. Trust me you'll never hear the end of it.
  717. * Go ahead, go to any KamenRider forum and say that [[KamenRider555 Faiz]] or [[KamenRiderKiva Kiva]] was your favorite series. Bonus points if you say you liked either of them more than [[KamenRiderKuuga Kuuga]] or [[KamenRiderDouble W]].
  718. ** Alternatively, go on any KamenRider video on Youtube and compare it to Power Rangers. Saying that you prefer Power Rangers over Kamen Rider will earn you some extra flames.
  719. ** Also, go and try to say that KamenRider is a show for little kids. Hard-core fans of the series will defend it for being DarkerAndEdgier than their Power Ranger (technically Super Sentai) counterparts and that the series is aimed at an older audience, while opponents will use the same argument as stated above (that the series is basically Power Rangers without the [[ColourCodedForYourConvenience convenient color schemes]]).
  720. ** Go pretty much anywhere on the Internet and say that you liked ''KamenRiderDecade''. For bonus points:
  721. *** Mention that you liked [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Tsukasa]] or [[{{Tsundere}} Natsumi]].
  722. *** Say that you actually prefer [[TheOtherDarrin Yusuke Onodera]] to [[KamenRiderKuuga Yusuke Godai]].
  723. *** Disagree with the suggestion that [[TheWorfEffect everyone was made weaker to make Decade look better]], or say that you don't mind the {{Toyetic}} nature of the Final Form Rides.
  724. *** For extra fun, go on a Kamen Rider forum (or anywhere on the Internet) and say that you liked ''MaskedRider.'' Have fun being burned.
  725. * ''{{Passions}}'' : Mention you're a Sheridan/Luis fan OR a Fancy/Luis fan on any of the Passions boards and just see the FlameWar that develops.
  726. * ''Series/{{Bones}}'': The backdraft from the departure of Eric Milligan's much beloved character was so enormous that a) the writers [[RetCon retconned]] at least part of the horror, and b) it was nicknamed; the [[FanNickname Zackdraft]].
  727. ** Say you like Brennan/Sully better than Booth/Brennan or just that you liked Sully. Then RUN AWAY FAST.
  728. *** Even better, say something nice about Hannah. Make sure you're wearing a bullet proof vest.
  729. ** The developments at the end of Season 6 are guaranteed to bring up debate as well. It started literally as soon as the episode aired.
  730. * Go to a {{Glee}} forum and bring up the Kurt-Finn-Burt scene in the episode Theatricality. The explosion will occur approximately .02 seconds after you hit 'post.'
  731. ** Do ''not'' mention the "Rocky Horror" episode to a fan of the ''RockyHorrorPictureShow''. Just don't. A flame war '''will''' ensue over whether or not it did the film/musical justice.
  732. ** {{Glee}} in general now. Charming, groundbreaking TV show? Overrated, autotuned cliche fest? Run and don't look back.
  733. * Whether or not Isiah Washington deserved to be fired from GreysAnatomy or not. And by extension his adversaries T.R. Knight, and Katherine Heigl can cause backdrafts as well all their own. Especially the polarizing Ms. Heigl.
  734. * ''DancingWithTheStars'' was Bristol Palin's EliminationHoudini the result of fans wanting to see a sweet GirlNextDoor improve or the result of a Tea Party conspiracy to hijack the results and stick it to the "liberal media." Further, is she just an average girl out of her depth dealing with the spotlight or a smug entitled brat who is so self-absorbed that she genuinely thinks that she was as good as most of the dancers she outlasted and that people who are upset about it are just "haters?"
  735. * ''FreaksandGeeks'': Go to The AV Club and tell them that Freaks and Geeks is not the greatest show ever made. I ''dare'' you.
  736. ** ''TheWire'' gets about the same amount of reverence.
  737. * If you criticize [[MisterRogersNeighborhood Mr. Rogers]], his fans will either flame you to hell and back... or allude to the fact that, while what you said pissed them off, Mr. Rogers himself would want them to forgive you and let it slide.
  738. * ''ThePriceIsRight'': As soon as Drew Carey took over the hosting position from longtime host Bob Barker, the fandom was immediately split in two over which host is/was better/worse. The debate rages on to this day.
  739. ** For that matter, just about anything that changed after Drew took over, in part because the show had been very static beforehand: from the set to the prizes, from the firing of announcer Rich Fields (himself a divisive figure; many of the fans wanted Randy West instead because of his rapport with the fandom), to the hiring of Rich's successor George Gray (some fans wanted Jeff Davis or David H. Lawrence XVII instead, and felt that George Gray was hired only because he's a close friend of executive producer Mike Richards). There's also the retirement or firing of countless other staff members who had been with the show since well before Barker retired.
  740. * Similarly, even though it was over 20 years ago, game show fans still argue about whether Ray Combs or Richard Dawson was the better host of ''FamilyFeud''.
  741. ** Defenders of Drew and Ray both use Bob's lawsuits and Richard's ''prima donna'' nature, and both men's constant backstage shenanigans, as strikes against them, while Bob and Richard defenders both find Ray and Drew comparatively sloppy and unskilled.
  742. * If you go on a ''Series/{{Charmed}}'' forum and bring up which you actress you believe was in the wrong during the whole Alyssa Milano/Shannen Doherty feud that happened 10 years ago, you'd better have a hose with you to put out all the flames you're going to cause...
  743. * ''Series/{{Community}}''. Is ''Modern Warfare'' just good or the best episode of the series - if not of all TV? Is Jeff's storyline the real one in ''Remedial Chaos Theory''? Jeff/Annie or Jeff/Britta? Was the show better before all of the "special" episodes? Is Abed the greatest character ever or just a delusional MetaGuy? Any of these inquiries will bring only death and destruction.
  744. * Just bringing up ''Series/NineteenKidsAndCounting'' can start this, because of the Duggar family's extreme religious beliefs. They don't believe in birth control and homeschool all of their children. People will get into arguments over whether Michelle Duggar is a victim of the patriarchy or if she should be left alone because she chose this lifestyle for herself. Expect someone to bring up over-population as well and also to start a flame war about religion.
  745. * Within the ''BigWolfOnCampus'' fandom, do ''not'' mention [[ShipToShipCombat Tommy/Lori VS Tommy/Merton VS Lori/Merton VS Tommy/Stacy]] and so on and so forth. You will get flamed no matter which pair you ship, or even if you're completely neutral about pairings.
  746. ** Don't ask which season is better. Just, don't. Though, you may survive mentioning not liking the [[SeasonalRot third season]].
  747. ** Lori VS Stacy. Was Stacy a pointless DamselInDistress who had no character development beyond being Tommy's on-again-off-again-girlfriend, or is Lori nothing more than a third wheel in the Tommy-N-Merton duo?
  748. ** Speaking of Merton, mention you don't like him, or, to a lesser extent, say that he was over-used as the series progressed.
  749. ** Try mentioning you don't like either ''Imaginary Fiend'' and/or the ''Manchurian Werewolf'' two-parter in terms of episodes. You will immediately get hit by a backlash of flames.
  750. ** Becky, Merton's [[AnnoyingYoungerSibling sarcastic teenage sister]] falls under this. Some fans found her to be an [[EnsembleDarkhorse underused character with]] [[DeadpanSnarker hilarious snarky quips]] that had a lot of potential. Others, however, merely saw her as a [[BrattyHalfPint spoiled brat]] [[TheScrappy of an obnoxious one-note character.]] Do ''not'' ask the fandom whether or not they like her. It will result in flames.
  751. * [[Creator/CartoonNetwork CN Real]]. Every time someone says they like it in a discussion, something catches on fire. It doesn't matter which discussion. Or if it's possible for the object to burn. (Burning bubbles? Sure, why not.) CN Real attracted so much bile on ThisVeryWiki that the main page for the block was [[Administrivia/PermanentRedLinkClub permanently redlinked]].
  752. * Go onto just about any forum and say that you think Ashton Kutcher's Walden Schmidt is a bigger improvement over CharlieSheen's Charlie Harper and that ''TwoAndAHalfMen'' is much better this way. And for icing on it, state your opinion of who was wrong on why Charlie Sheen left: Chuck Lorre or Charlie Sheen. Bring an umbrella for the storm that will rain upon you.
  753. * Go onto a ''Series/{{Highlander}}'' forum and say you don't like Methos. Or if you want to get the film fans going too, ask which is better, Duncan or Connor. It might not be as bad now as when the show was on, but it's still not good. Oh and although he drifted into TheScrappy territory at times, try saying you're glad Richie died. The Richie fans will hate you and the non-Riche fans will start arguing with them about it.
  754. ** Never say you actually like ''[[Film/HighlanderTheSource The Source]]''. It's not pretty. ''Film/{{Highlander}} II'' gets this as well, but ''The Source'' possibly surpassed it. And at least ''[=HL2=]'' has a small handful of admirers.
  755. ** Go tell someone you don't like Tessa. Really, try it, you will be called a misogynist by every ''Highlander'' fan in the tri-galactic area.
  756. * BBC's ''Series/{{Sherlock}}'' vs. CBS's ''Series/{{Elementary}}''. Note that this kicked off long before ''Elementary'''s premiere in September 2012.
  757. * Just bringing up HBO's show ''{{Girls}}'' can cause this, mostly because of the racial/class issues. One piece of FlameBait is the reason for the MonochromeCasting. Is Lena Dunham, the writer and star of the show, a blatant racist, just woefully ignorant of race in general, or is she just trying to replicate the whitewashed areas of Brooklyn where the show takes place? Is show writer Lesley Arfin also a racist (because of her questionable comments on Twitter)? Is the show [[HypeBacklash truly "the voice of a generation"]]?
  758. * {{SNL}} vs. MADtv
  759. * Go to {{Tinsel}}'s facebook page and wonder aloud about who was/is right/justified/wrong/unforgivable in the whole Amaka/Angela/Reginald/Sunom/Mrs.Etuk/Nero saga. I dare you.
  760. ** Or start a [[ShipToShipCombat Team Soji vs. Team Kwame debate]].
  762. [Music]
  764.  * Generally speaking, don't talk about music in polite company, with the ''possible'' exception of when you're at a concert. Everyone hates what you listen to, this goes double if you're a big fan of a DeadHorseGenre.
  765. * If someone asks to peek at your iPod to see what you listen to DO NOT LET THEM. There's a 75% that they will either love a band you don't listen to much or they will love a band that you think is rubbish.
  766. ** Having an iPod in the first place is enough to trigger a backdraft.
  767. * Go on to any music video of a song that ''Series/{{Glee}}'' covered and say they sang it better. Then run and don't look back. Or better yet, go on to the ''Glee'' cover video and say either it sucked and/or the original version was better. Then sit back and watch the flames erupt.
  768. * James Blake: Is he really dubstep? In general it seems that if someone is a big fan, then yes, how could he not? If not, then how is that even close?
  769. * What ''is'' dubstep for that matter? The dark, atmospheric early works of artists like Skream? Or is it the more wobbly bass-centric tracks of Skrillex and his ilk? Seemingly '''any''' dubstep video or discussion has already devolved, or is mere hours away from devolving, into a perpetual flame war between the two camps.
  770. * Electronic music vs. music performed live. Enjoy your planet-melting heat.
  771. ** {{Vocaloid}} [[ seems to have combined the two.]]
  772. * Go on to any Music/{{Rammstein}} music video and call them Nazis. Then run for your life.
  773. * Same goes for KMFDM. Best put on your running shoes beforehand.
  774. * Music/NineInchNails vs. every other industrial band, or better yet, whether NIN is actually Industrial.
  775. * Whether ''anything'' is "real industrial". Expect it to boil down to Throbbing Gristle fans against everyone else.
  776. * {{Auto-Tune}} is a big source of contention amongst groups that pride musical talent or groups who like individuality or groups who like individuality with auto tune/vocoder, or groups who like no-limitation in musical growth, groups who''hate'' musical growth, or perfection, or just the plain useage of the term Auto-Tune over Vocoder winds people up.
  777. * Loads of endless heated debates are within fans of the same band or solo artist regarding their 'best' and 'worst' material. Usually it comes in the following types: old material vs new material, hits vs no-hits, electric vs acoustic, analogue vs digital, this composer vs that composer, before or after 'x' member entered or left, etc. More often than not, asking what your favourite song is by said band or artist can be a dangerous topic. Some will insist that there is only one correct answer to that question (the fan favourite, SignatureSong or not), while others will insist that choosing the signature song (fan favourite or not) is a sign of being a {{noob}}. Others still will say that you're not a true fan if you can easily choose a single favourite.
  778. * Pick a video of "IstanbulNotConstantinople" by Music/TheyMightBeGiants on Website/YouTube. Any one. Guaranteed there'll be a huge Greece vs. Turkey flame war in the comments section.
  779. * Similar video example: videos for Music/IronMaiden's "Alexander the Great" attract flames between Greeks, Macedons and people from Balkanic nations.
  780. * Similar video example: Find a video of a piece or opera fragment by Richard Wagner. Chances are there will be an ongoing argument concerning his antisemitism, the fact that {{Hitler}} [[HitlerAteSugar was a big fan]], and whether these two points are related, relevant to the music, or covered by statute of limitations.
  781. * In general, a song which has been covered/parodied by somebody else will have flames on both pages over which is better. Music/JohnnyCash's cover of "[[NineInchNails Hurt]]" being an exception.
  782. * The EurovisionSongContest. Oh boy, ''the Eurovision contest''. Every year brings a renewed lot of "Losing Country vs. Winning Country" debates, some countries even have "Last year's commentators vs. This year's" internal flamewars. Of course, those are nothing compared to the politically loaded debates, such as 2008's "Did eastern european countries vote for Russia because they're afraid of VladimirPutin?" And let's not forget "Armenia/Azerbaijan/Turkey/Israel isn't European!"
  783. * Claiming that/asking if the band Music/DragonForce speeds up or otherwise modifies their songs.
  784. * Let the newbie wandering into any forum discussions of Music/{{Nightwish}}, or any discussion on Music/{{Nightwish}}, be forewarned now, Tarja vs. Annete, bad idea. One singular mentioning could result in the equivalent of a 50 megaton nuke going off.
  785. * There is a similar reaction in regards to discussion on any of Sirenia's three female singers.
  786. * "Music/{{Metallica}} v. Music/{{Megadeth}}" threads turn into legendary flame wars.
  787. * Same goes for "Old" Metallica versus "New Metallica," for that matter.
  788. * [[Music/TupacShakur 2Pac]] vs. [[Music/TheNotoriousBIG Biggie]].
  789. * Music/TheWho vs. Music/LedZeppelin
  790. * Music/TheCure vs. Music/TheSmiths
  791. * Music/{{Jay-Z}} vs. [[Music/TheNotoriousBIG Biggie]]
  792. * Music/{{Nas}} vs. Music/{{Jay-Z}}
  793. * Music/FaithNoMore vs. Music/RedHotChiliPeppers
  794. * Music/NewEdition vs. Music/NewKidsOnTheBlock, when you bring it up in the right circles.
  795. * Pick a Velvet Revolver video on Website/YouTube. The comments page will, without exception, degenerate into a "'Old' Music/GunsNRoses vs. Stone Temple Pilots" or "Axl Rose vs. Scott Weiland" flame war.
  796. * And if it doesn't become Axl vs. Scott, it will become Velvet Revolver vs. "New" Guns n Roses (or some other Slash vs. Axl war)
  797. * Ask for an opinion on any {{post-grunge}} band. Watch sparks fly.
  798. * Or ask a group of grunge fans whether Stone Temple Pilots are grunge or post-grunge. It will get ugly.
  799. * HipHop gets this a lot; just ask whether hip-hop is better now or was much better back in the day, and watch the net get set ablaze. It's mostly pre-2000's rap fans vs post-[[TheNineties 90's]] rap fans. Of course, both of these groups are diverse as far as age and gender goes, but it doesn't stop people from calling the other group of fans "old fogies with a NostalgiaFilter" or "little suburban girls who don't know anything about hip-hop."
  800. * Claim that Music/LilWayne is the Greatest Rapper Alive. Watch all the Music/{{Eminem}} / Music/{{Jay-Z}} / Music/{{Nas}} / [[Music/TupacShakur 2pac]] / [[Music/TheNotoriousBIG Biggie]] / hell every non-Lil' Wayne fans jump you at once.
  801. * Worse yet if you claim Music/SouljaBoy is talented. Given the new song of his about anime makes it clear that he doesn't actually watch anime, but that's besides the point.
  802. * Internet forums get especially hot over any "rock versus rap" discussion brought forward. These discussions tend to skew predominantly one way or another (depending on the forum), but the flame still kicks up pretty high. You can find those in the "Rock Covers of 'Lollipop' and 'Crank Dat'" aisle.
  803. * Whether in real life or on the internet, bring up what band is and isn't goth amongst a group of goths and you're bound to see some angry debates. Mentioning Music/MarilynManson is probably the quickest way to stir anger, but battles over Music/JoyDivision (whether they were just influential to the genre or actually part of it), Siouxsie and the Banshees, Music/TheCure, Music/DepecheMode, Music/{{Ministry}}, and numerous others are all fairly common.
  804. * Also entire flamewars over modern "Cybergoth" music like VNV Nation, Blutengel, and so on.
  805. * On the subject of goth music, which lead singer of Christian Death was better -- Rozz or Valor?
  806. * [[JapanesePopMusic Johnny's]] vs [[KoreanPopMusic SM Entertainment]]. Or just Kpop vs Jpop {{boy band}}s in general.
  807. * Though the flames have died down in the last two or three years, a heated internet debate of the past surrounded j-rockers Music/MaliceMizer: Who was the best lead singer, Tetsu, Music/{{Gackt}}, or Klaha?
  808. * Music/XJapan. Here's only a few of the ways to start a fight to rival any fight the band was ever involved in:
  809. ** Discussing anything related to sexuality and/or gender of the band members. Mentioning EveryoneIsBi on a forum composed mostly of straight fans can light off a flamewar, as can insisting that any given member is [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial 100 percent totally straight dammit!!!]] in other venues.
  810. ** Who's the better guitarist, hide or Pata or some of those old guys from 1985? Who's the better bassist, Taiji or Heath? Pages of flames later, you'll be regretting you ever got into it.
  811. ** Discussing anything related to SexDrugsAndRockAndRoll. Even if you DID see Taiji with cocaine smeared all over his shirt at a live. Even if that pic of Yoshiki passed out has rounded the Internet and come back again. This is just Not To Be Discussed.
  812. ** How did hide die? Was it an accident, suicide, or murder? Forget detectives, this debate needs firefighters.
  813. ** Yoshiki in general. Fans vs. FanHater is the usual.
  814. ** Yoshiki/hide or Yoshiki/Toshi? How about "run for your life"?
  815. * Find ANY Sabaton clip on youtube. Watch several countries rage across the comments, more often then not atleast one not even mentioned in the song. For example, how did we get from a music video about WWI to a Hitler vs Mao flamewar?
  816. * [[ Chalga.]] Essentially, influential folk genres (like traditional Roma and Turkish music) infused with dance pop and the bitches-bling-beefs attitude. Depending on your point of view it's either a recipe for a fun night at the clubs or THE END OF BULGARIAN CULTURE AS WE KNOW IT. Even if the music's not good, it's pretty depressing seeing the [[DudeNotFunny classist and racist arguments against it.]]
  817. ** It's more of a generalized Balkan thing - Romanians have [[ manele]] (whose {{Hatedom}} is larger and more vocal ''and'' it's a country where anti-Roma prejudice is still pretty widespread, so expect more UnfortunateImplications given that the genre arguably got codified in the poorer, Roma-majority neighbourhoods of Bucharest), Serbians have [[ turbo-folk]] (less UnfortunateImplications arguments because Serbia doesn't have as large a Roma minority, and if anything the way turbo-folk flourished and was promoted heavily during the wars in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo in the 1990s can be interesting from a socio-political perspective) and Greece arguably has laiko and skyladiko.
  818. * Music/MichaelJackson, after his death in 2009, has become something of a hot-button topic... specially MistakenForPedophile [[TooSoon jokes]].
  819. * If you go to any fan-made [[Music/HelloProject Morning Musume]] forum and say something positive about Koharu Kusumi, there's a small chance you'll make it out alive.
  820. * Go on youtube to any white guy covering a blues song. It has already erupted into people arguing whether the old version is better than the new one and whether the new one's artists are racist.
  821. * Make a [[TooSoon joke]] about Music/JohnLennon's death. Then run. Quickly.
  822. * Try to find a Website/YouTube video of Yusuf Islam (the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens) that hasn't devolved into a massive wank over religion.
  823. * ''And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda'' tends to end up with people getting into arguments about Winston Churchill's involvement in that particular battle the song's about.
  824. * ''40:1'' commentary ends up pretty much flame wars over Poland's politics in WWII.
  825. * Rock vs. pop is another genre fight, especially post-1995 pop.
  826. * On related news, ''Rolling Stone'''s declaring Music/BritneySpears a 'Queen of Rock' really struck a nerve amongst rock fans.
  827. * Anything involving Music/TheJonasBrothers and/or Series/HannahMontana / Music/MileyCyrus, anything at all, will summon tween fangirls who think they are the best thing since sliced bread, and fans of other kinds of music who think thes "musicians" who owe all of their success to Disney. This isn't a flame war so much as a massive explosion.
  828. * This isn't even safe among the tween fangirls. Just try to say you like Miley on a forum for Music/SelenaGomez / Music/DemiLovato fans.
  829. * To a lesser extent, [[ Miley hate appears]] on Music/TaylorSwift forums.
  830. * Because of an incident on {{Twitter}} when Music/DemiLovato criticized a ''Series/ShakeItUp'' joke for mocking anorexia, then observed in her tweets how skinnier and skinnier Creator/DisneyChannel actresses have gotten (a comment which unintentionally drew ire from ZendayaColeman's dad, who claimed that Zendaya took the comments personally), and SIU actor DavisCleveland making comments defending his show and his co-stars while criticizing Demi, there is a FandomRivalry between Demi's fans and Davis'/''Shake It Up'''s. It can get...nasty. (Demi has since apologized, but that has not seemed to stop the FandomRivalry.)
  831. * Find any Music/{{Tool}} video on Youtube. The argument will always go something along the lines of "Tool sucks", "Maynard is a God", "I don't understand the song", "Only REAL fans understand the song", "Anyone claiming to understand the song is a wanker", "[[Music/NineInchNails NIN]] is better".
  832. * Talk about major record labels. Especially the one whose acronym is identical to a large section of the TV Tropes page.
  833. * "Hi! My favorite band is (insert band name here). Let's talk about them!"
  834. * If you're ever unwise enough to go on a jazz or saxophone forum and mention Kenny G, make sure you take good cover afterwards. There will be fatalities.
  835. * It's hard to be a Music/KanyeWest fan nowadays. Ever since he changed his style from rap to auto tune singing, compared himself to Jesus, claimed that GeorgeBush doesn't care about black people, and just recently, interrupted Music/TaylorSwift during her 2009 VMA Award speech, you can't safely admit liking him without somebody bringing these things up. It doesn't help that he is known as "[[BarackObama Jackass]]" or "[[WesternAnimation/SouthPark Gay Fish]]" either.
  836. * Like the above hip-hop example, the contemporary R&B/Soul genre gets this as well, regarding who can and can't sing, what measures a soul singer, and what time period was the best. If you ever dare say Music/{{Rihanna}}, Ciara, Nicole Scherzinger, Kerri Hillson, Music/{{Beyonce}}, etc. are great singers, prepare to get hit with a megaton nuke and watch people say they can't sing and only made it because of their looks. Male stars get this as well.
  837. * A large number of R&B fans think MusicIsPolitics is in play every time a ButNotTooBlack {{Stripperific}} female singer whose talent lies more in dancing and looking good than actually singing becomes popular. Unfairly or not, these people like to point at Rihanna, Cassie, Ashanti, Beyonce, Kristina Debarge (though this has more to do with whether or not she's screwing up the Debarge name), Keri Hilson, Nicole Scherzinger, Ciara, Christina Millian, Mya, and even Aaliyah ([[NeverSpeakIllOfTheDead until she died]]) as examples of "industry whores". Of course, these artists still have fans and they will come out in droves to defend them. Detractors of the aforementioned singers will accuse them and the industry of impeding the success of more "pure", and "mature" R&B/Soul singers like Conya Doss, Amel Lareaux, Heather Headly, India.Arie, Angie Stone, Corin Bailey Rae, Vivian Green, Jill Scott, and so on.
  838. * Go to any video featuring a drum solo by any popular drummer, especially Buddy Rich. Cue arguments over who is best, usually mentioning Travis Barker of Blink182 (either he's the best or just overrated) specifically.
  839. * When discussing Music/{{Nirvana}}:
  840. ** Do not mention Music/KurtCobain's death. If it's too late for that, avoid mentioning [[YokoOhNo Courtney Love]] or anything related to her at all costs. If you aren't careful, you will end up with a "Was it suicide or did she bump him off?" flame war on your hands, complete with dodgy old rumours being dragged up and gratuitous Courtney Love bashing, going on and on and on whilst the original discussion about Nirvana's music lies forgotten. For examples of this, read the discussions under any, meaning ANY, Youtube video related to Nirvana or Hole.
  841. ** Likewise, never ''never'' '''NEVER''' mention Music/WeirdAlYankovic's parody "Smells Like Nirvana" around fans of..well...Nirvana. Ironic, considering that Kurt Cobain himself actually ''liked'' the parody song.
  842. ** Ditto with Music/ToriAmos' cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit", which Kurt also enjoyed.
  843. * Mention liking any version of "Don't Rain on My Parade" not done by Music/BarbraStreisand. Then run away. Quickly.[[note]]The exceptions to this seem to be Rachel Berry's CrowningMomentOfAwesome during the season finale of ''Series/{{Glee}}'' and Music/{{Japan}}'s cover.[[/note]]
  844. * Compare Music/TaylorSwift, Music/CarrieUnderwood or Kellie Pickler to each other in a thread related to any of the three. Fans of any individual artist will ''viciously'' state that "their" artist is superior to the other two.
  845. * A newbie to {{Vocaloid}} watches a Miku video. Suddenly, he comments, "What anime is this?" That poor guy.
  846. ** Let's not get into the flame wars over new voices, or shipping.
  847. ** The never-ending argument on whether Rin and Len are twins, mirror images, or even related at all?
  848. ** People who aren't fans that see a video of a live concert always remark in a way that will cause an eruption of hate.
  849. ** Kids react to Hatsune Miku. Both the video and discussions about it...
  850. ** Heck, even mentioning Hatsune Miku's short hair version is better than her original one...
  851. *** Or maybe just mentioning that Hatsune Miku is better than (insert other Vocaloid here)...
  852. * Believe it or not, the fans of pop/opera singer Music/JoshGroban have a massive tendency to explode into Holy Wars. Want to start a FlameWar that'll last for a good month? Waltz onto those forums and announce that you think he's cute when he's tipsy, or that you liked that Blender quote where he admitted to making booty calls. Saying that he's anything less than 100% angelic all the time WILL cause a mass of crazies to bring out the torches and pitchforks, no matter how much the poor guy protests that he's normal. And God help you if you even hint at a certain picture of him taken in New Orleans. Or compare him unfavorably to Clay Aiken. Sit back and enjoy your popcorn.
  853. * Metal fans are known for this. If it's not intense FandomRivalry between fans of different subgenres, it's arguing over what's "true" metal and what's not.
  854. * Woe be to the person who brings up any NuMetal or {{Metalcore}} band on a metal forum. Perhaps the one thing that all metalheads agree on is that neither of those two genres are real metal. Also counts for 80's HardRock a.k.a. "Glam Metal". Or Grunge. However, you might be able to get away with calling Music/{{Soundgarden}} or Music/AliceInChains metal, as the [[SeriousBusiness experts]] at Metal-Archives have decreed that [[ both]] [[ bands]] are indeed metal.
  855. * Music/{{Kesha}} vs. Music/{{Uffie}} can be pretty intense, especially on Youtube comments on their videos, particularily the latter. Uffie is often claimed to have [[OlderThanTheyThink done it first]] and be of higher quality musically, whilst Ke$ha is often claimed to be more popular.
  856. * As a result of this trope, Music/KingCrimson discussion list Elephant Talk had an ''internet fire door'' operated by the moderator. Interdicted subjects included just about any position on the relative merits of band members past and present, comparisons with any other prog rock group, bad encounters with Robert Fripp, essays into music theory, the Crimso tune ''Larks Tongues in Aspic'' being used as background music in ''Emanuelle'', and just about anything that strays off topic.
  857. * Arch Enemy:
  858. ** Mention the name Johan Liiva in a Gossow-era Arch Enemy video (or vice versa). Sparks will fly.
  859. ** Not only is Johan's voice polarizing to the fanbase, but his departure (let's not even get into whether he quit or was fired) and the band's hiring of Angela Gossow as his replacement marked a drastic change in direction for the band (more emphasis on the "melodic" part of MelodicDeathMetal, ''far'' less on the "death" part). Many old fans of the band [[MisBlamed go as far as to blame Angela]] for the change in direction ([[FanDumb never mid the fact that Michael Amott has always done pretty much all of the songwriting anyway]]).
  860. ** Even in the most civil of discussions on the Liiva vs. Gossow subject, tread waters carefully. Without exception, someone will always play the gender card, and things will get ugly fast.
  861. * Mention Music/LadyGaga on any internet forum. Cue arguments consisting of "She's awesome/is trolling the music industry/is creative" vs. "She's a fake, prepackaged annoyance/is unoriginal/is pretentious/her fans are elitist." Nine times out of ten, she will be compared to Music/DavidBowie. Cue arguing over which of the two is better.
  862. * Don't you DARE Say Lady Gaga, Music/ChristinaAguilera or Music/BritneySpears sucks on ONTD if you're in the mood for a stan war....
  863. * And really don't mention Lady Gaga around fans of electroclash, particularly RobotsInDisguise or you'll hear about how she did nothing but steal their genre, make it suck musically, and make it mainstream. It doesn't help that music critic Simon Reynolds came up with the idea, giving it some degree of "legitimacy"
  864. * When the tragic backstory of Music/EvelynEvelyn was first posted online by Music/AmandaPalmer and JasonWebley, backdraft happened on several levels. Some people didn't like the fact that disabled characters were portrayed as being socially awkward. And some people didn't like the fact that Amanda and Jason played victims of sexual abuse, even though Amanda herself is a rape survivor.
  865. * In fact, just mention Amanda Palmer at all if you want to start a flamewar. She has a Hatedom that rivals her fandom in dedication.
  866. * On any emo forum, bring up what music is emo. The site will then divide itself into four camps, the young under 18 kids who like Good Charlotte, Music/PanicAtTheDisco and other stereotypical bands, the people declaring screamo to be the only legitimate form of emo, the people who listen to a blend of both aforementioned groups music, and the older forum members declaring all new emo sucks and recommending virtually nothing released past 2002. All four groups will gladly rip each other apart without ever arriving at an answer.
  867. * Heck, call any rock band that that tackles negative romantic themes and stuff that isn't sunshine and rainbows emo and see the sparks fly.
  868. * Music in other languages is ''not'' free of this. Go to Website/YouTube, search for any Silvio Rodriguez or Pablo Milanes video, and bask in the neverending heat coming from all the wank between people who think Silvio and Pablo are mere puppets of the Cuban government and others who believe that Emilio and Gloria Estefan are sell-outs who want to kill Cuban music.
  869. * Mention Mark Russell in the presence of any Music/TomLehrer fan--or, even worse, confuse the two--and you'd better set your affairs in order and make peace with your deity.
  870. * Did Music/ToriAmos copy Music/KateBush, and worse, who is better?
  871. * Did [insert eccentric female singer-songwriter] copy Music/KateBush?
  872. * Anything related to religious music, especially ChristianRock.
  873. * If you say you like the Music/ScissorSisters' version of '[[Music/PinkFloyd Comfortably Numb]]' you will be repeatedly told that you are stupid.
  874. * There are still some heated discussions over whether Music/{{Genesis}} was any good after Music/PeterGabriel left. Or after Steve Hackett left. Or after Music/PhilCollins "left" - i.e., was "Calling All Stations" redeemable, and if not, was it Ray Wilson's fault or not?
  875. * Make a thread about [[Music/{{Burzum}} Varg Vikernes]] on any metal forum. Given how belligerent black metal fans tend to be, things will get ugly. Varg is either an immensely talented musical genius, or a vile racist whose music is overshadowed by his persona. Doesn't help that his most vocal fans tend to be either teenagers who like him ''due to'' the [[EvilIsCool church burnings and Euronymous's murder]] or Neo-Nazis.
  876. * Mentioning any of the following in a progressive rock forum: Neo-Prog, Prog Metal (especially Music/DreamTheater), whether any given band is prog or not, any 70s prog rock band's 80s or later material, Prog vs. Punk, whether any particular widely liked/hated album is overrated/underrated.
  877. * Synthesizers and whether they're "real instruments" or not.
  878. * Whether a band counts as indie rock or not and what exactly the definition of indie rock is.
  879. * Similarly, Punk Rock. There is a fair amount of intersect between the two backdrafts.
  880. * Try admitting that you like Music/MyChemicalRomance online.
  881. * Another point of contention within the HipHop community is whether or not the state of current Hip-Hop is natural progression or is it [[AstroTurf astro turfed]] thanks to ExecutiveMeddling and due to the fact that MusicIsPolitics?
  882. ** Gets more complicated if you believe the mainstream media and white America is the one that's driving hip-hop now instead of the inner city streets, blacks and latinos. Some even believing young urban blacks are being marginalized within their ''own'' culture.
  883. * Just don't mention Music/JustinBieber at all: other people already have, and either they compared him and his fans to something negative, or fangirls did and everyone else started a flame war. The InternetBackdraft on him is so extreme that he is mentioned on '''every single music video''' on Youtube. Every. Single. One. Usually in a "[number of dislike votes] are Justin Bieber fans", occasionally something like "I don't want the Bieber fans ever discovering this music, they aren't worthy to listen to it". He gets even more hate than Vevo ads.
  884. * Go practically ''anywhere'' and announce that Music/TheBeatles were terrible. And prepare to be torn limb from limb. If you amend this to 'overrated', you just might survive. ''Might''. Hell, even just stating that the band's music is simply not your personal preference (but you still respect their role in rock music) is quite risky.
  885. * To a lesser extent, any discussion about whether Music/TheBeatles, Music/TheRollingStones or Music/TheWho were the better 1960s BritishInvasion band will get very interesting, very quickly.
  886. * The age-old debate over what is more important in music: the lyrics or the melody?
  887. * Go on and ask whether or not "Virtual Bands" (IE: TheGorillaz, AlvinAndTheChipmunks, etc.) count as legitimate musicians or if their technical non-existence is taking away attention from "Real Musicians".
  888. * Mention anywhere on the internet that you enjoy Music/{{Creed}} or Music/{{Nickelback}}.
  889. * Callas or Tebaldi? The war among opera fans is still going strong even though both ladies are dead. Also Ye Golden Age of Opera (Callas, Tebaldi, Gobbi, ect.) vs. Young Opera Singers (Netrebko, Georghiu, Alagna...). Somewhere, there are opera fans sadly shaking their heads at how the standards have fallen since the days of the great Francesco Tamagno (1850 - 1905).
  890. * Don't mention that you prefer Music/GreenDay's work after 2000 to their work before that--the sides will continue to be divided long after you've disappeared. Expect terms like "emo" and "real music" to be used. Also, don't mention Pinhead Gunpowder or Foxboro Hot Tubs. Just don't.
  891. * Pretty much any star singer/rapper/band who used to perform "underground" that shoots up to popularity suddenly will have a BrokenBase of people who think they are fake (often these are the most vocal) to the new fans who think they are better now and everyone else has a NostalgiaFilter.
  892. * Whether or not Music/{{Eminem}}'s success is mostly due to talent, or because he's a [[ButNotTooBlack white rapper]].
  893. * Another example of "vocalist wars" is Music/EscapeTheFate. Their Youtube videos can very quickly devolve into a massive flame war between the "Team Ronnie Radke" and "Team Craig Mabbitt" factions. Even though [[FanDumb both parties have clearly moved on]], Radke with his own band, and EscapeTheFate with Mabbitt.
  894. * Don't mention the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Music/{{Rush}} fans in particular will take it real bad.
  895. * Music/{{Blink182}}. You have the people who don't like Enema of the State and anything put out after, the people who don't like the direction of the self-titled album and Neighborhoods, AVA and +44 flame wars, the people who really really really hate Tom, his sideprojects and [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking his beanie hat]], the people who really really really hate Mark and HIS sideprojects, the people who complain about the lack of crude humor on recent albums despite it still [[RefugeInVulgarity the fuel]] on which their live on-stage banter runs on, the people who think that they're only in it for [[MoneyDearBoy the money]], the people who are still sour over the breakup despite them being back together and on friendly terms...the list goes on. The only band member to remain relatively unscathed in terms of reputation is Travis, but even then that's RELATIVE. Not that [[TricksterArchetype the band]] themselves cares what the BrokenBase thinks, however.
  896. * Dare mention you think Music/RebeccaBlack's music is good, ''especially'' Music/{{Friday}}.
  897. * Rhapsody of Fire v. Music/DragonForce. Better pray you live through it.
  898. * Never mention Music/{{U2}}, especially not their work after 1997. Or else be prepared to find loads of hate comments attacking Bono accusing him on being a tax-evading, attention-hungry narcissist (most of which are utter BS) or people moaning about The Edge's effects-driven guitar work. It's simply cool and easy to hate them, sadly.
  899. * Mentioning that you like Music/InsaneClownPosse or any other Creator/PsychopathicRecords artists anywhere on the internet will result in you being verbally crucified. Admitting to being a hardcore {{Juggalo}} and showing anything less than genius-level intellect to [[SubvertedTrope subvert]] [[FanDumb the expectations of detractors]] will net you ten times worse.
  900. * Of course, Juggalos aren't above this either. Go onto an ICP video and make even the slightest mention of not really liking the song and expect several hundred badly-spelled replies threatening to [[DisproportionateRetribution cut your head off and burn your house down]]. On one hand, Juggalos have to deal with a lot of hate coming from all directions, so defensiveness and being a bit quick to retaliate is expected, but ''wow!''
  901. * Say, you posted up a song parody you got off a filesharing site? Cool. Better double check if it's really by Music/WeirdAlYankovic, though, lest you be crucified by vitriolic comments all saying that it's not really Al. [[ The "Not Al Page" is your friend]].
  902. * Finally, the real question. Which music format is better: Vinyl, CD, MP3, Spotify, etc.?
  903. * Any time there's a top 10/20/50/100 greatest singer/band/group/song/rapper/album/musician or whatever list, expect nuclear fallout over who made the list, or didn't make the list, and the order of the list. Especially if the top 10 of the list contain a lot of crossover pop artists.
  904. * Do you want an easy way to ensure that you will get tarred, feathered and thrown out of town? Admit to liking Music/{{Nickelback}} on any music - nay - ''any'' internet forum. We dare you.
  905. * Which Asian music genre is better: [[JapanesePopMusic J-Pop]] or [[KoreanPopMusic K-Pop]]? Don't answer unless you want to be torn to shreds. Heck, just mention you like ''either'' (or both) on any forum. Be prepared to be burned by flames stating "Stop being a weeaboo and listen to real music!".
  906. * Saying Music/{{Radiohead}}'s OK Computer is overrated will make dozens of members on sites call you an idiot. Saying it is worse than The Bends will make a large site argument. Comparing OK Computer to Kid A is more acceptable. Now say you don't like OK Computer, and duck your head.
  907. * Music/FleetwoodMac: Peter Green/Jeremy Spencer/Danny Kirwan vs. Lindsey Buckingham/Stevie Nicks. Also, Buckingham vs. Nicks, though this was more driven by 1980's-era critics who preferred Buckingham to Nicks, and would make slighting comments about the latter in print, and has faded away since the two have rejoined Fleetwood Mac and become close friends again (to the extent that Buckingham did extensive work on Nicks' latest album).
  908. * With the latest wave of boybands, there has been multiple fandom wars, mainly Music/OneDirection vs whichever other boyband, special mention to the ''Series/BigTimeRush'' fandom. Say you like 1D to BTR fans, be prepared to run fast and run far. Say you like BTR to 1D fans however, you won't even be in tact by the end of the sentence.
  909. * Never say Music/LinkinPark used to be metal. You won't be able to deflect the hate comments for days.
  910. * Whether Music/{{Deftones}} is a NuMetal band or not. Even today, over a decade after their emergence, the debate rages on among metal fans.
  911. * Another common thing that sets metal fans off: Don't EVER admit that you don't like Music/{{Slayer}}. You will pretty much lose your cred as a metalhead.
  912. * Want to ''really'' grind the gears of Music/{{Sugababes}} fans? Go on a pop music forum (''Popjustice'' is ripe for this) and say that you at least somewhat liked the fourth lineup change consisting of Heidi Range, Amelle Berrabah and Jade Ewen. Oh, and make sure you have a heavy-duty shield with you.
  913. * Find a group of Music/{{Versailles}} fans. Suggest that you think Masashi is a better bassist than Jasmine You (or vice versa). Watch as the fangroup implodes upon itself. You don't even have to express any preferences yourself--just imply that there are people who ''have'' a preference, and people will automatically assume that you're on the side they're not.
  914. * Want to trigger negative complaints from {{Coldplay}} fans? "'''[[PunctuatedForEmphasis Princess. Of. China.]]'''" These three words will set off a bitch-fight for pages. It's either too mainstream for Coldplay fans, too weird for Rihanna fans, or it's blasted for not using exclusively Chinese elements in its video. Those who actually like the song and think the video is well-done are quickly drowned out and accused of not knowing "real" music.
  916. [New Media]
  918.  * Mention Encyclopaedia Dramatica anywhere. Especially on [[ any]] [[ website]] [[ that]] [[ has]] [[ an]] [[ article]]. If you can't [[InvokedTrope invoke]] ConvectionSchmonvection, you'd better RUN!!!
  919. * The exact definition and proper use of the term MarySue. It gets especially bad when applying it to canon characters.
  920. * The January 2006 dispute between Ebaum's World and YTMND over a Lindsey Lohan gif resulted in such horrid flamewars that "Ebaum" became a banned word at {{GameFAQs}}.
  921. * Give an opinion on [[SlashFic Slash]]/{{Yaoi}} (other than "it exists") on any fiction forum. It got so bad [[ Fanficrants]] put a permanent ban on topics involving the BoysLove that isn't ''strictly'' canonical. It's gotten to the point where "These are my thoughts on yaoi" has become shorthand in the snark communities for "I'd like to start a fight" and is often used (usually facetiously) in place of "I don't mean to offend, but..." or "I'm about to talk at length about something that may bore you."
  922. * {{Wikipedia}} {{Edit War}}s. Among the [[ more notorious examples]] are the spelling of the chemical element with the symbol Al, and the name of the port located at the mouth of the Vistula.
  923. ** Also on the Wiki: [[ How reliable of a source it is]] [[hottip:* :typically causes backdraft among college professors]], [[ the credibility of its admins]] [[hottip:* :Essjay himself also sparks this trope]], the Biographies of Living Persons policy [[hottip:* :which many have interpreted as "don't say anything negative about anyone, ever, regardless of how well-sourced it may be; also, the policy was introduced right after [[ John Seigenthaler's little butthurt tirade on the Wiki]], creating ParanoiaFuel. TV Tropes kinda sorta has a similar policy under the RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment]], the Oversight function [[hottip:* :also came from the Seigenthaler thingy]], [[ so-called "Office Actions"]] [[hottip:* :MOAR Paranoia Fuel]], and so-called "attack sites", especially critics of the Wiki like Encyclopedia Dramatica and [[ Daniel Brandt]] who post the real names of certain suspicious editors [[hottip:* :apparently privacy and anonymity are more important than being an encyclopedia. Ironically, it was Daniel himself who helped expose Essjay for who he REALLY was.]].
  924. ** Copyrighted images. If the Wiki doesn't accept [[ Fair Use]] images, there will be flames about allowing them. If it does (such as the English wiki), the number of images and how they'll be used is SeriousBusiness.
  925. ** The "Disputed Prison Convictions" list/articles. So much so it doesn't exist anymore. Likely due to heated "Neutrality" disputes.
  926. * Saying positive things about Creator/DavidGonterman in a non-ironic fashion. Especially if the forum has ties to the ''Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog'', ''Manga/SailorMoon'', or [[FurryFandom furry]] communities. Saying you liked ''Sailor Moon: American Kitsune'' (or even just that it's not as rampant CanonDefilement as one would believe) on a ''Manga/SailorMoon'' forum will most likely get you IP banned for life.
  927. ** This may be partially caused by irrational suspicions that David is [[JustifyingEdit writing said non-ironic positive things himself]].
  928. * The Version 6 interface of [[DeviantArt deviantArt]] polarized just about every user registered on the site within the first 24 hours. There seems to be absolutely no middle ground whatsoever.
  929. ** Every version of the site causes controversy, even so much as altering the categories system. Do not, however, mention Jark's firing.
  930. ** Anytime someone goes onto DA's music message board, and writes "So, who here likes [name any mainstream pop-punk band]? They're amazing, aren't they?"
  931. ** [[ Raptorization]], a term that emerged in the DA kaiju fandom which refers to when one draws fanart of a monster (such as {{Godzilla}}) and heavily alters its design or downplays its distinctive "monstrous" characteristics for whatever reason, be it to "modernise" it or make it "cooler" or "more accurate", often making them appear more generic in the process (an analogy can be seen in the {{Slurpasaur}}.) A common trend is to make Godzilla stand horizontally and resemble a velociraptor, hence the name of the term, though this is by no means the only way it's done. Artists who indulge in Raptorization run the risk of being harshly criticized by fans of the original designs, who view it as a [[CanonDefilement disservice to the character]].
  932. ** There tend to be many topics that bring up debates that eventually turn into flame wars. Among these include [[ItsNotPornItsArt artistic nudity vs. pornography]], anime/manga vs. any other cartoony style (and sometimes vs. realism), and whether or not fan art is truly original. These arguments tend to spring up anywhere you can post on the site, from the forums to the chat rooms and even in the comments section of artworks.
  933. ** Never, ''never'', '''NEVER''' bring up wolves for ''any'' reason on DA. Even if you casually draw and/or mention wolves, you're bound to stir up some "Wolves are the most beautiful and misunderstood animals on earth" VS "Wolves are overrated" flame wars.
  934. *** Likewise, there's Sparkledogs/Sparklewolves (Drawings of canines that are often brightly colored). Either you'll be praised for your "creative artwork" or you'll be criticized ''harshly'' for "being unable to draw a dog/wolf correctly".
  935. ** DA Stamps (Small rectangular images often reflecting the artist's viewpoint or interests). Either they're a great way for an artist to express themselves, if a bit simplistic at times. Or, they're just a lazy over-done fad that has taken the popularity away from "real" art. No two people will agree.
  936. *** Also, ''any'' stamp about ''any'' topic. It will cause a flame war, even if it has no opinion at all.
  937. ** Demotivational Posters. It's best not to ask if they can be considered photomanipulation or not.
  938. ** Never, ''never'', '''NEVER''' mention "Tracing" at all on DA. [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment NEVER!]] The flame-filled cries of "IT'S ART THEFT!" VS "It helps artists practice different styles" would be enough to reduce the internet to ash.
  939. *** Also, the idea of using references of any sort. Either you're just someone who is practicing a new style and using a screenshot as a learning aid, or you're a thief who is "copying" someone else's work out of "laziness". There is no middle ground it seems.
  940. ** Draw a character, ''any'' character [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic as a pony]]. Good luck ''not'' inticing a flame war.
  941. ** In general, it's a bad idea to ask if people should disable comments or not. These usuall escalate into flames shouting "They just can't handle criticism!" VS "People should have the right to censor comments they don't like!" VS "They're just over-sensitive" VS "People won't stop trolling!" and variations thereof.
  942. ** In general, ''never'' mention you have Autism/Asperger's Syndrome (or that you know someone who does). Otherwise, you'll just bring up the old flame war of "Autistics are people too!" VS "Ass-Burgers is just an excuse to be a jerk!".
  943. *** Pretty much any disability falls under this, unfortunately. Especially due to the sheer number of [[{{Troll}} trolls]] that lurk about deviantart that just love to post Anti-(insert disability here) images just to intice flame wars.
  944. ** Clubs in DA seem to be specifically centered around these lately. For every Pro-(insert topic here) club, there's about 20 Anti-(insert topic here) clubs created for no other reason than to intice flames and vice versa.
  945. *** Likewise, '''never''' make a club about a specific artist (regardless of whether you like them or not). Chaos will ensue no matter what.
  946. ** The "Daily Deviation" (Images selected by the higher-ups at DA as being their "personal favorites" they've seen that day). True works of art that should deserve the praise they get, or over-hyped trash that takes the attention away from "true" art? It's best not to ask.
  947. *** Especially when the "Daily Deviation" in question is ''fanart'' of any sort.
  948. ** Three words. [[AxisPowersHetalia Axis. Powers. Hetalia.]] Simply '''mentioning''' this show ''anywhere'' on DA is bound to create an unstoppable inferno.
  949. ** There is one word that can summon flame wars intense enough to engulf the entire planet into a blazing inferno: Anime. Simply mentioning you're a fan of Anime on DA is enough to cause people to either praise you for being a fan of the genre or to shout angrily that you are a "Weeaboo that doesn't know anything about Japan!".
  950. *** Just mentioning you have an interest in Japanese culture (or just Japan in general) will cause this as well.
  951. *** Speaking of Anime, never mention you draw fanart of one of the more "popular" shows such as OnePiece or {{Naruto}}.
  952. * Thanks to a few high profile cases, mentioning {{Something Awful}} anywhere, or that you're a "Goon" is just an invitation for very opiniated people to declare the place as the bane of the interbutts.
  953. * And even the Goons look down on the people who inhabit [[FightClub certain nameless imageboards]].
  954. * Here's a fun one! Go to any Fan-Fic site, forum, or community, and ask if anyone considers {{Shotacon}} or {{Lolicon}} to be pedophilia, sit back, and break out the weenies to roast over the flames. Bonus points if you mention the great strikethrough on LJ.
  955. * Go to any dolling community and say anything about ''traced bases'', preferrably using a proxy. There'll be the tracers, the anti-tracers, and the anti-basers. Watch it carefully. The discussion's tone manages to get so immature it's ''amusing''. But then, it's known to have been lethal, or, at least, numbing.
  956. * Bring up the matter of posting other people's artwork on the internet, and you can pretty much polarize everyone on that little section of the internet. It may not have the bang [[TheTokyoFireball to destroy Tokyo]], but it will level a few towns in the carnage.
  957. * {{Subeta}}'s Longcat and [=EnderBSD=]'s incident. Well, even mentioning the word Subeta at some places may be a good way to make yourself crispy.
  958. * Go to [[ImageBoards 4chan]]. Enter /b/. Bring up any topic. Roast marshmallows.
  959. ** Saying that you like 4chan or even find it useful will get you so much flaming hatred in anyplace other than the site itself. Expected to be immediately deemed a troll, have your intelligence and/or sexuality questioned and other things. More than once has that site been called "the asshole of the internet".
  960. * Bring up nagas, especially those drawn by Snapesnogger. The heat that you will generate could cause a small forest fire.
  961. * Whatever you do, '''never''' use random Japanese words like "Kawaii" or "Chibi" or whatnot in your journal entries/comments/etc. That is, unless you ''want'' to rekindle the "Shut up weeaboo! U don't know Japanese!" VS "People can say whatever they want!" flame wars.
  962. ** Likewise, many a flame-war has occured by some poor innocent sap who drew fanart of certain WesternAnimation characters in manga/anime style and decided to show it to his/her friends online. Be prepared for rekindling of the flames of "That is so cute/awesome/etc." vs "Anime-style sucks! Any so-called "artist" with no real talent can draw that!" or "How dare you ruin (insert cartoonist here)'s art style with your over-used garbage! You only draw Anime style because you can't draw the characters the right way!"
  963. ** Don't ask whether or not editing screencaps counts as fanart. Just don't.
  964. ** Likewise, there's the whole debate as to whether not tracing (of any sort) should be considered Art Theft. On the one hand the person is simply copying off of a screen-cap (or whatnot)...On the other, it does technically count as a fanart drawing (even if it's not 100% original).
  965. * Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER even VISIT the website Pony Island. Sounds like a nice place, sounds happy and good...but the second you pay for your account (it's not even an AllegedlyFreeGame, it's a pay-to-play) and step through the forum door, YOU WILL BE ABSOLUTELY BURNED. If you are suicidal, bring up that you think the community is a bad place. In about five seconds, the mods will have banned you.
  966. * Weight Gain (also known as WG), or "Inflation Art". Even if you were to draw a character as "slightly chubby" or write a WG fanfic purely for humorous purposes, chances are, people are going to flame you for "having a fetish" (even if the artwork in question is of a non-sexual manner) or flame you for "making people believe that it's ok to be fat" (prompting further flaming from people who already have this opinion).
  967. ** Likewise, even saying you find overweight people to be attractive (or unattractive) is enough to cause this.
  968. ** Ditto, artwork (particularly photography) using extremely thin women. A flame-war will inevitably start between people accusing the poster of oppressing all women by presenting unrealistic beauty ideals, those who pity the model or claim she is ugly and/or unattractive, those who think she is just naturally thin and the posters are just fat, and so forth.
  969. ** Try stating you prefer WG artwork of one sex over another. You'll soon be flooded with flames crying out "DoubleStandard" before you get through the first few replies. For bonus points, state that there's only female WG/Inflation art and that male weight-gain is underappreciated.
  970. *** Likewise, try stating one form of inflation is "True Art" and that anything else is "vulgar pornography". The flame wars will be inevitable.
  971. ** Heck, Weight Gain Art VS Inflation Art has been known to incinerate whole forums with a poorly-timed discussion over which is preferable.
  972. *** And, on the subject of Inflation Art, "Breast Inflation VS Butt Inflation". Yes, there are flame wars over this. No, you really don't want to start one (even unintentionally).
  973. * Ballet videos on youtube invariably set of flame wars. For one thing, there are a bunch of different styles and every poster thinks the way their teacher taught them is correct or better. For another, while the dancers are usually pretty healthy , the posters will invariably start fighting among themselves on whether the model is too skinny or fat or just right. If the girl has a little muscle tone ( the sort you'd associate with broadway or acrobatic dancers) the fighting will get even worse, with different parties arguing that she is both too skinny and too fat.
  974. * SeanMalstrom. [[ShownTheirWork Well-researched]] video game blogger, or [[SmallNameBigEgo self-aggrandizing]] {{Troll}}?
  975. * The {{Bioware}} Social Forums. You have to feel some sympathy for the moderators and Bioware employees who regularly post on the boards, because the epic amount of flamebait and arguing that goes on over there would kill lesser mortals. Some notable examples:
  976. ** Any announcement of {{DLC}} content for any ''MassEffect'' game (especially alternate costumes for the supporting characters) will be met with, "Why doesn't (character x) have armor yet?", "Why haven't you fixed Legion's armor?" and "Bioware sucks for releasing this instead of story-driven DLC." When story-driven DLC is announced, people yell, "Why isn't the Virmire survivor in this DLC?", "This is too expensive and I can't afford it - you suck", and "2 hours? TOO SHORT!!!"
  977. ** Go on the ''DragonAgeII'' boards and mention any of the following: that you think Sony SecuROM DRM is needed in modern games, that hack-and-slash games are pretty good or that you thought the Metacritic score for the game was way too low. Prepare to be thoroughly roasted by overzealous users who think DAII is the worst game ever made and has caused the death of Bioware.
  978. * Mention Facebook or Twitter on any site that considers itself "independent" (like indie media sites, alternative news sites). Watch how everyone tries to up each other on how "different" they are, by how much they don't use Facebook/Twitter/don't watch mainstream movies/don't have a TV.
  979. * The {{Valve}} Software Forums. Basically, holding any opinion on any Valve game is likely to get you roasted by someone who holds the complete opposite view. Classic examples include going on and stating that ''VideoGame/Left4Dead2'' was innovative and unique, the length of time it takes to complete either of the ''VideoGame/{{Portal}}'' games (which will get you called as a newbie if you took too long to play the game) or asking about the release date of the next ''VideoGame/{{Half-Life}}'' episode or game.
  980. ** More specifically, the great "''VideoGame/{{Portal 2}}'' Potato Sack Fiasco of 2011" was an AlternateRealityGame that was announced for the then-upcoming release of the game. A site launched (based on GLaDOS' computing mainframe) with a countdown window of four days. In order to accelerate the timer (and get the game to be released early), {{Steam}} users could purchase "The Potato Sack", a collection of 11 indie games which had ''Portal 2''-related content in each of them (which included potatoes that could be pooled by Steam to speed up the computing process). Naturally, members of the Valve message boards complained that they had to pay to support indie games (even though they were under no obligation to buy the pack), and that the countdown timer was moving too slow for their tastes. When the game was finally released early (a few hours ahead of schedule), said users that started a massive flame war criticizing Valve for a pointless waste of time. In an effort to appease their fanbase, Valve gave everyone who completed all 11 indie games the Valve Complete Pack (which had almost every single game the company released) - naturally, this wasn't enough for some people, who complained that they already had all the games and couldn't gift them to their friends. This can still cause flame wars to this day.
  981. * Go to the Site Feedback forum on Gaia Online and suggest that Gaia should tone down obscenity in items, or that you think certain items should be taken off the site. Your thread WILL quickly be flooded with users who oppose your opinion and are very vocal about it. When an item ban actually DID happen, all hell broke loose, with everyone protesting in the forums, boycotting the real-money items, and making obscene avatars. (with the joke that they were okay "as long as they weren't smoking", as the ban got rid of smoking-related items ) The few people who were in support of the item ban were swarmed with comments about how items shouldn't be banned based on moral reasons, though to be fair, it's hard to justify banning cigarette items for moral reasons while still permitting items featuring alcohol, violence, or sexual themes.
  982. * Although it takes some doing, mentioning certain things at ''{{That Guy with the Glasses}}'' will trigger flaming, if not IP banning. Some of these include:
  983. ** Bringing up the Nostalgia Critic/AVGN feud. It was played for laughs, but [[FanDumb not everyone sees it that way....]]
  984. ** Stating or implying that ''{{Obscurus Lupa}}'' may be a racist.
  985. ** Stating or implying that {{Iron Liz}} is at all {{bifauxnen}}.
  986. ** Whether or not ''WebVideo/TheNostalgiaChick'' side project "The A Word" is a legitimate film. Even worse would be bringing up the topic at its core.
  987. ** Mentioning [[UnPerson Daniel "That Aussie Guy" Rizzo]].
  988. ** Bringing up the Nostalgia Critic's infamous LetsPlay and the accompanying WebVideo/{{Retsupurae}}. Want extra heat? Take any side; whether the LP was atrocious and deserved the riffing, if Retsupurae should stay on Youtube, or even if you like or dislike both of them.
  989. ** Do '''not''' under any circumstances even causually mention [[TheSpoonyExperiment Spoony's]] departure from the site. Just don't.
  990. *** Furthermore, do ''not'' ask if ObscurusLupa was over-reacting or if Spoony had crossed the line. In fact, it's best not to ask if ''any'' of the people involved in the incident are in the right/wrong regarding the situation.
  991. *** Him revealing he suffers from depression falls under this. No, really. It's best not to ask if this justifies his recent meltdown or if he should take responsibility for his actions and not use his depression as an excuse.
  992. ** Try mentioning ''TheBlockbusterBuster''. You won't get far before you're hit by flames.
  993. *** To be more specific, try mentioning his review(s) of ''[[StarWars The Phantom Menace]]''. You'll have a nice warm fire in no time.
  994. * ''TheIrateGamer''. Seriously. Just bringing up his name anywhere WILL start a flame war. There's a reason his main TV Tropes page is locked.
  995. ** Say you like ''Irate Gamer''.
  996. *** Say you ''love'' ''Irate Gamer''.
  997. **** Say you think ''AVGN'' sucks and ''The Irate Gamer'' is the best webseries in the world.
  998. * Say you like Mike Matei better than JamesRolfe. Of course, on his YouTube page, everyone will agree, since he's an OrwellianEditor and all, but beyond that...
  999. ** Worse, mention the Cheetamen 2 "scam". Or don't, if you value your life.
  1000. * Because it's well known that TVTropesWillRuinYourLife, link to or mention this wiki at your peril.
  1001. * On the subject of WebVideo/{{Retsupurae}}, mention the [=SSoHPKC=] RP around their fans. Then step back. Waaaaay back.
  1002. * [[ Kony 2012.]] Oh, where do we even start? The campaign is an attempt to get notoriously AxCrazy [[AfricanTerrorists Joseph Kony]] to justice, and many responded to the video they posted positively. But then people started doing some research... it turns out that Invisible Children(the charity behind the campaign) only donates '''31%''' of the proceeds to actual help, the rest going to themselves and their filmmaking business. The money that does go toward Africa goes towards the [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny corrupt Ugandan government]], especially their army.[[hottip:*:which has perpetuated many, ''many'' atrocities, [[NotSoDifferent some of which are the very same things the LRA has done]])]] The video began getting some serious HypeBacklash from experts, criticizing the [[DocumentaryOfLies misleading and outright false information]][[hottip:*:For example, Kony left Uganda 6 years before the film was made, yet the film outright states that he's still there]], and the [[MightyWhitey outright insulting way]] it treats victims, such as giving more representation to a ''toddler'' than any victim. A [[ screening in Northern Uganda]] [[GoneHorriblyWrong was a disaster]], and bringing up the video anywhere is not advised.
  1003. ** And then, [[ this happened.]] Invisible Children's credibility is practically gone after this little incident.
  1004. * Even happens on this very wiki. It's responsible for many of the LockedPages or [[Administrivia/PermanentRedLinkClub Red Links]] on the site.
  1005. * Anita Sarkeesian of [[ Feminist Frequency]] launched a Kickstarter project to analyze the depictions of women in video games. The response from the male gamer community was huge and '''[[ ugly]]'''.
  1006. ** A smaller version of this happens to any woman ever who talks feminism on the Internet, more so if they happen to be something other than straight, white, or cisgender. Many prominent female bloggers (for a given definition of "prominent") get death threats, rape threats, and [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs rape]] ''[[BreadEggsBreadedEggs and]]'' [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs death threats]], sometimes with a topping of anti-gay, racial, or anti-trans slurs (depending on the blogger's particulars, obviously). It was just bigger this time because Sarkeesian was asking for money.
  1007. * Criticize ThisVeryWiki's policies or its stance on sexual content. It'll be hilar'''user was banned for this post'''.
  1008. * ''WebVideo/GameGrumps'' has already garnered a '''lot''' of these despite being a relatively new show.
  1009. ** Mention you like/dislike JonTron. Is he hilarious or is he just [[TheScrappy an annoyance compared to]] EgoRaptor? Flames will commence.
  1010. ** There are five words that can make a fan foam at the mouth in rage. ''NewSuperMarioBrosWii''. To say the fandom is [[BrokenBase divided would be a huge understatement.]]
  1011. *** To elaborate, the LP has garned a huge flame war with three sides fighting against one another. "They're being hipsters and not appreciating new games!" VS "They have a right to an opinion!" VS "Why aren't you guys funny anymore?" with neither side backing down.
  1013. [Other]
  1015.  * For a change of pace, take a group of amateur mathematicians and ask whether 0.999... (infinitely repeating) is equal to 1, or take a position on the subject. [[hottip:*:In case you're wondering: Yes, it is.]]
  1016. * Browser Preference. You might as well be flying near a hurricane/doing aerobics beside lava.
  1017. ** It's especially bad if you say you use anything besides Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, or Opera.
  1018. *** Just mentioning that you like using Internet Explorer is enough to get everyone to call you an idiot for using an "inferior browser" and then proceed to shove their favorite browser down your throat.
  1019. * One should never even approach any computer science/geek newsgroup without taking much care about subjects that could generate a flamewar, such as:
  1020. ** vi versus Emacs ([[{{UNIX}} UN* X]] text editors)
  1021. ** Windows vs. Mac OS vs. free UN* X clones
  1022. *** The free UN* X clones vs. each other.
  1023. ** Flash. Just... FLASH. Any topic at all, and both lovers and haters of the program will argue.
  1024. ** (IBM) PC vs Mac. So ([[ in]])famous, Apple played upon it in their ads, and correspondingly somebody [[ made a rap about it]].
  1025. ** C++ vs Java vs Python vs Perl vs <insert favorite programming language here>
  1026. *** Related: Object-oriented vs functional vs imperative vs declarative programming paradigm.
  1027. ** ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 (old 8-bit home micros), which has raged unabated for the last 25 years.
  1028. *** Or you can TakeAThirdOption and go for the AmstradCPC
  1029. ** Amiga vs. Macintosh, which is almost as old.
  1030. *** Versus Mac, hell! Try "original Amiga" (i.e. running the original OS on stock or souped-up original Amiga hardware) versus any or all of the "next-gen" alternatives (Amiga OS4, AROS, or MorphOS.) (Or, even ''more'' acrimoniously, any of the "next-gen" systems versus ''each other.'')
  1031. ** [[ DAZ|Studio]] against [[ Poser]] Just drop in on any related forum and ask which one is better - in seconds you will have a flame war that will burn for weeks.
  1032. *** For extra fun, go to any forum that supports CG modeling and bring up either.
  1033. *** There's a running war on DeviantArt to try and have art made with Poser/DAZ|Studio separated from scratch-made models.
  1034. ** Whether software with little or no restrictions on use, modification, and distribution should be called free software or open source. Occasionally you'll even come across software licenses accepted by either the Free Software Foundation or the Open Source Initiative but rejected by the other organization (such licenses are never compatible with the most common free/open-source license, the GNU General Public License, which was accepted by both groups). The latest term is 'FOSS' (Free and Open Source Software.)
  1035. ** AMD vs. Intel.
  1036. ** Are you a Linux user? Don't admit to using any proprietary software, ever!
  1037. ** Don't ever admit to a geek that you don't like Linux. They will explode with anger, and provide a lengthy rant on why Linux is the best operating system. For even more entertainment, start praising Windows.
  1038. ** Don't point out that there is a DoubleStandard against {{Microsoft}} and in favor of Apple. Apple fans [[{{Hypocrite}} will just call you a "sheep" for Microsoft]]; even if you aren't a fan of Microsoft and/or you think both companies are equally greedy, and just say it is [[JustifiedTrope justified]].
  1039. ** Graphics cards are not immune either. Whether you use Nvidia or AMD, you're bound to be hated by someone for using an "inferior" product.
  1040. *** Intel may be trying to enter the party as well.
  1041. * The flame wars generated by programming languages pale before the flame wars brought on by real life foreign languages.
  1042. ** Ask which language you should learn. MisplacedNationalism almost always gets in the way and people start bickering over economies, cultures, GPD, HDI, crime rate, history, population, conflicts, and over which has more speakers.
  1043. ** Ask about the hardest and easiest languages to learn. Nobody can seem to agree on the difficulty of the German Language. Some folks claim that it's in fact one of the easiest languages in the world while others say that it is an incredibly hard language. Then there are people who say that [[WeAllLiveInAmerica everyone should take Spanish instead of wasting their time.]] The only consistencies are that Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Polish, Russian (if starting from a non-Slavic language), and Hungarian often show up as being the hardest.
  1044. *** Oddly enough, the language is one of the few topics about Germany which does not quickly invoke [[GodwinsLaw the Godwin]], at least most of the time. A forum for Jewish issues would not be a good place to discuss the merits of [[BerserkButton the German language]].
  1045. * TankGoodness versus HumongousMecha (Both sides will try to use science and technology to justify their opinion, and some try to compromise by pulling MasamuneShirow into the mix. We won't reveal which side always wins here, to avoid napalm-bombing).
  1046. * On firearms forums, a sure flame is M-16 versus AK-47, Springfield versus Enfield, FAL versus M-14, 5.56mm vs 7.62mm, sights versus scopes, and different AR builders. SonsOfGuns? good publicity for the hobby or a junk-filled affirmation of gunnies as rednecks?
  1047. ** Also, Never mention Desert Eagles in gun forums. Ever! Unless you're talking about plinking or target shooting, and even then, never on a serious target shooting board. Some people will say that it's a wonderful, though powerful gun while others will go on about it being a glorified piece of impractical junk.
  1048. ** Along those lines, though much less potent, never mistake a ''magazine'' for a ''clip'' on a gun forum.
  1049. * Here is a great way to get a flame war ignited: Mention that you want a home defense gun and that the guns you are looking at are: an AK, FAL, SKS, anything bolt action, or any rifle in 7.62x39 caliber or larger with none of them being an M1 Carbine, AR15, any handgun, or a shotgun. Oh, and just for added heat, throw in a barrel length of at least 20" and a bayonet.
  1050. ** Recommend a bolt action rifle, a battle rifle, an AK, or an SKS as a home defense gun.
  1051. ** HD guns in general generate flame wars. You've got the handgun group, the AR-15 group, the shotgun group, and the pistol caliber carbine group. The handgun guys always go on about maneuverability, overpenetration, overkill, and what if you get into a gun struggle. They are attacked because handguns are not so easy to use under stress and they fire the weakest projectiles. The AR-15 group talks about tactical accessories, customizability, Frangible bullets, lower wall penetration, how penetration depth doesn't matter, and that their gun is more controllable than the pistols and not deafeningly loud. The shotgun guys will say how the shotgun is the best weapon because everyone's conditioned to run so soon as they hear the gun pumping. Some people will then fight about the benefits of pumping versus not pumping, and they they talk about how they can put out a huge number of pistol bullets in a guy with one shot, which then invites debates over which load to use. Birdshot is adequate, says on group. Another group claims that #4 buckshot is what it takes. Another group then says that both of them are wrong and posts penetration data. Everyone fights about necessity of penetration depth versus just taking a big shallow chunk out of the target. The pistol caliber carbine guys talk about having handgun bullets, but being easier to control than rifles without penetrating so far through wall and potentially hitting someone in another room.
  1052. * Is penetration all that matters, or is a shallow wound just as effective? Do you need to get at least that 12 inches of penetration like the FBI recommends for a defensive weapon, or is that a dangerously high amount which increases the odds of overpenetration and makes collateral damage more likely? Do 55 gr V-max or TAP rounds fired from a 16" barrel AR-15 make the cut as adequate? They don't penetrate 12" through just gel, but they fragment and break apart very early in the wound channel. Does carving out this piece of flesh make up for not affecting the vital organs?
  1053. * Gun safety! Are photos in which someone is aiming a loaded weapon anywhere other than at a (non-human) target an unacceptable breach of safety and the hallmark of a dangerous amateur or justified by context? Is it inexcusable to have your finger on the trigger when you don't intend to fire? Where and how should you store a weapon in your home/vehicle/office?
  1054. * The Morgue Monsters vs. Jello Junkies debate on wound ballistics, the single-action/double-action/double-action-only debate, and of course the revolver vs semi-auto debate.
  1055. * In philosophical circles, Modernism vs. Postmodernism. Hooooo doggies. Or any philosopher vs. any other philosopher, really.
  1056. * {{Pirate}}s vs. {{Ninja}}s anyone?
  1057. * Meta-parody: Cake vs Pie.
  1058. ** Or Pancakes vs Waffles.
  1059. * Or lions vs. tigers. No, seriously. Go to Youtube and you'll even find scientific discussions about who would win a battle in real life.
  1060. * Stuffing or Potatoes? Anyone?
  1061. * There's a major flame war waiting to happen if Dane Cook is mentioned. You have people say he's funny, he's not funny, he's only funny because he stole jokes, that jokes can't really be stolen, or that he's only famous because he knows how to exploit the word of mouth method.
  1062. ** The same may apply to Carlos Mencia.
  1063. ** JeffDunham applies as well. Is he funny? Not funny? Are only certain puppets funny? Is he offensive? Is he poking fun at offensiveness? No two people will agree.
  1064. * Whether or not an airplane on a conveyor belt could take off. It has been confirmed through multiple real-life experiments that yes, it does take off every time, and the scientific explanation is elementary. But someone will always misinterpret the question, repeating [[YouFailLogicForever "the experiment didn't count because the plane moved and the plane isn't supposed to move"]] until the thread is locked.
  1065. * Wanna piss off Bill Hicks fans? Say that you like Denis Leary better (or maybe vice-versa).
  1066. * ''Chronicles of the Horse'' was once subject to a flame war so immense that it earned a name: "The Tennessee Walker Wars". More recently, there was a conflict so bad it resulted in the resignation of the admin and death threats being tossed around. Also do not mention Parelli, Rollkur and "Big Lick" Tennessee Walker Horses unless you are prepared to both receive and give flames. Also in the equestrian world: English vs. Western, whether dressage is a training method or an end in itself, and oh, lord, Barefoot vs Shod. Hundreds of tons of iron could have been forged into horseshoes over the flames that that one has provided.
  1067. * The MontyHallProblem is always good for an argument. In a real-life FlameWar, when Marylin vos Savant answered it in ''Parade Magazine'', thousands of letters were sent in to berate her for her "obviously" incorrect answer, including almost a thousand from [=Ph.D.s=]. Even people who know the correct answer can easily be fooled by variants which are mathematically equivalent.
  1068. ** Part of that problem is that many people know the answer, but don't fully understand the math. That means that they don't know how to tell if a variant is mathematically equivalent or not.
  1069. ** This one may be dying out, at least slightly, as it's been addressed by Snopes and in numerous books, which explain the problem and the mathematics of the solution for non-mathematicians. Once the structure of the problem is understood, the solution and equivalent problems are much easier to spot.
  1070. * Mercifully the merging of the Indy Racing League and [=ChampCar=] in 2008 finally shut up much of the mud-slinging between each side (not that there were many people left on either side). Woe betide any unwitting newbie who suggested to either side that there was any merit whatsoever in the other series.
  1071. * Seen on this Wiki and worse elsewhere: the debate around {{Mary Sue}}s, their characteristics, their subtypes, etc. Also, whether there really can be a CanonSue and whether it's okay to declare a popular character or mythological figure one. Or heck, even discussing whether MarySue is really a Bad Writing Trope...
  1072. * Mention Boxxy on any popular site with knowledge of internet fads and its userbase will crack in half (support or destroy); 4chan's /b/ crashed under the sheer pain the flame wars over her were causing the server. Also, you'll likely get a temporary ban if you post anything about Boxxy on the chans.
  1073. * FurryFandom, full stop. Mention it on any forum and try not to pass out from the smoke.
  1074. * Furries have their own backdrafts, including: fursonas from species that are considered [[ItsPopularSoItSucks overpopular]], fursonas of species that don't exist in real life, fursonas based off of cartoon or cartoon-style characters (''especially'' recolors of ''SonicTheHedgehog''), intersexed fursonas (or, for that matter, intersexed ''anything'' furry, especially if drawn by Doug Winger), "babyfurs" (drawings of furries in diapers), furries in historical contexts (especially Nazi wolves and furry Jesus), and zoophilia. Sites for furries who don't fully identify as animals also have a strong backlash against anyone who does, and sites for furries who aren't into furry porn ''really'' backlash against furries who are.
  1075. * Honey on Vegan forums - whether you can indulge or not. Some say it's an animal byproduct, therefore you can't; some say it's just spit, therefore you can.
  1076. * Be religious, or irreligious, or agnostic anywhere on the internet, and watch the sparks fly. If you're a Christian, then obviously you must be a homophobic, bigoted idiot who doesn't believe in science (despite the fact that religious scientists do exist and some faiths actually believe that knowledge is the best way to be closer to God). If you're an atheist, then you automatically look down upon people of faith, are depressed and "think you know everything," and if you're an agnostic you're a "fence sitter" - because its impossible to not know whether there is a God or not and you must be completely black and white on the issue.
  1077. ** Get into the semantics of what's religious and what isn't, and you'll start numerous wars at once. A few common examples include whether atheism, agnosticism or something else is the 'default' belief; whether agnostics and followers of godless religions can be considered atheists; and whether it's appropriate to liken the 'New Atheist' movement to fundamentalists, or use the word 'militant'.
  1078. * In's Tangency board, '''do not''' express a strong opinion on any of the following topics: the existence of Bigfoot, the existence of God, breastfeeding, gay marriage, tipping at restaurants, the posters on any other gaming-related forum[[hottip:*:''especially'' The RPG Site]], and banned former users.
  1079. ** And Michelle Kwan. Don't go there.
  1080. ** And Fred Phelps - this one got so bad that he's officially a banned topic on the site.
  1081. ** Anything relating to transgenderism; even accidentally using a wrong term somewhere will have the Trans Pack frothing at the mouth.
  1082. * On a certain unnamed ImageBoard, a good way to start a flame war is to bring up the practice of circumcision. And if you think that's not enough, add in a preference for cut/uncut. Yay s'mores!
  1083. ** Not just on that certain image board. Mentioning circumcision virtually anywhere on the internet is bound to start a huge FlameWar debate.
  1084. * In the TroperIRCChannel, the channel's topic often advises against discussing religion or FasterThanLightTravel. There is a very good reason for this.
  1085. * 1. Go into LJ's egl comm or any ElegantGothicLolita forum. 2. Mention brand replicas (bonus points if you bring up Bodyline). 3. Sit back, hit F5, and enjoy the fireworks.
  1086. * Disney: Toons vs Tweens. State that [[TheDisneyAfternoon 90s Disney cartoons]] like ''WesternAnimation/DuckTales'', ''WesternAnimation/GoofTroop'', ''WesternAnimation/ChipNDaleRescueRangers'', ''WesternAnimation/TaleSpin'', ''{{Recess}}'', ''WesternAnimation/{{Bonkers}}'' or any other shows that were on when 'you-were-a-kid' that you can think of, are way better than the tween crap that Disney spouts now. Fans of ''HannahMontana'', ''WizardsOfWaverlyPlace'', ''TheSuiteLifeOfZackAndCody'' and other recent non-toon live-action productions will have a fit. People who agree with the statement will bash Eisner relentlessly, whether what's being discussed has anything to do with him or not.
  1087. ** Speaking of live-action shows on Disney, ask whether or not the earlier shows (IE: ''EvenStevens'', ''FamousJetJackson'', ''LizzieMcguire'', etc.) are better than the newer ones (IE: ''HannahMontana'', ''SuiteLifeOfZachAndCody'', ''WizardsOfWaverlyPlace'' etc.). The fandom will rip one another to shreds.
  1088. * Say '''ANYTHING''' about a major social networking site (MySpace, {{Facebook}}, Twitter, etc.) The discussion will degrade into people ranting about [[{{Hatedom}} how much they hate these sites]] and [[FanHater their hatred for anybody who uses them]].
  1089. ** Any (and we do mean ''any'') time there is a major change to a social networking site, this is an inevitable outcome. Even '''rumored''' changes are met with outrage.
  1090. * [[Manga/DragonBall Goku]] vs {{Superman}}. Just try starting a topic saying [[UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny who would win]]. Then you get Goku fanboys saying he is millions of times faster than light and can destroy the universe by powering up, and the Superman fanboys claiming Supes is omnipotent, and he is unbeatable. For added fun, try making a topic on who was the better hero. The flames will be hotter than Supe's heat vision.
  1091. ** Pretty much any "(Insert character here) VS (Insert character here)" debate will fall under this. [[DoctorWho Daleks]] VS [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration The Borg]]? {{Pokemon}} VS Franchise/{{Digimon}}? Ask who would win in a battle between any two characters and you'll be sure to start a flame war large enough to incinerate Mars.
  1092. * Improve your Spanish! Go to any film/show/anime dubbed in Spanish-Spanish or Latin American-Spanish, and say that as you're familiar with the opposite accent the dub sounds a bit strange for you. You'll have to deal with the biggest Latin America vs. Spain war since the Conquista as a result. Also works with European/Brazilian Portuguese.
  1093. ** The same applies for British English vs. American English.
  1094. * Go to a board for fans of cheese products and say that you like Velveeta. Hell, just mention the name Velveeta. Or admit to liking any packaged food to a forum full of foodies. Nice knowing you.
  1095. * You can start your very own flame war on the fan forums for DisneyThemeParks. No, seriously. Just mention any one of the following: strollers, [=ECVs=] (motorized wheelchairs), safety enhancements, annual passes, or Fastpass (a line reservation system), and watch the combustion. Older posters will usually just PassThePopcorn, but newer members will dive right in. If you want to escalate things to nuclear levels, just toss in a pro/anti Disney's California Adventure sentiment.
  1096. ** Alternately, if you're on the East Coast, mention anything even remotely negative about Horizons, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, or the original Journey Into Imagination. Talk about fireworks. Interestingly, you'll almost never find flames over which park is better.
  1097. * Any discussion of Pluto and its reclassification from a planet to a dwarf planet/Kuiper Belt object, especially on astronomy and science fiction boards.
  1098. * Now for the [[IncrediblyLamePun burning]] question: Does ''real'' chili have beans or not?
  1099. * Go to any Singaporean bus-spotting forum (for example, [[]]). Mention that you even remotely like the new Scania KUB buses being brought in by one of the bus companies there. Pray to God that the bus nerds have mercy on you.
  1100. ** Start a topic that involves heavy and direct discussion of the two major Singaporean bus companies, [[ SBS Transit]] and [[ SMRT Buses]], such as comparisons between the two, asking whether they should merge, and so on. Now run, run very very far away...
  1101. ** Another one that get the bus nerds riled up: photography of buses. From techniques to equipment to copyrights to... hoo boy.
  1102. * Go to a CyberPunk forum and post anything related to cybergoth or SteamPunk.
  1103. * {{Original Character}}s in any fanfic is a good way to start a fire at any imageboard. DeviantArt is a primary source of firewood.
  1104. * Speaking of DeviantArt, the use of bases. Are they a useful tool for developing your artistic technique, or are they cheating, lazy, theft of other people's hard work and "not really your own work?"
  1105. * [[ The DSM]], and whether it's valid with regards to alternative sexuality. If you're not familiar with the debate; homosexuality used to be in it. Now it's not. Gender Identity Disorder, however, still is. You see how controversy could arise.
  1106. ** Or, more generally, go to [[GranolaGirl certain]] [[ people]] and assert that ''any'' mental illness ''exists''.
  1107. ** Autism: whether it should be accepted or cured, what causes it, and Autism Speaks, a nonprofit foundation which either wants to help autistics or is a bunch of Nazis trying to wipe them out.
  1108. * Whether it's possible to have a DepravedHomosexual, DepravedBisexual, or PsychoLesbian ''without'' it being UnfortunateImplications, ever.
  1109. * Go to an ImageBoard and start a thread for black females and watch the the mushroom cloud rise to the stratosphere. Racist and sexist Flame Wars erupt every time someone makes a thread devoted to pics of Black Females. Some arguing over the fact that there's too many lightskin girls, and others saying that the light skin girls can't be black (I.E. they're too attractive to be considered black), as if sending the message that it's ''physically impossible'' for black women to be attractive unless they're mixed with something, or light complected.
  1110. ** Go to any porn forum and ask why certain performers refuse to work with black performers. The thread will almost always either get deleted or locked after a certain period of time due to intense arguing (Depending on how intense the discussion gets).
  1111. * Go to a cycling forum and mention the name Lance Armstrong. That's enough. The entire topic will very quickly be engulfed in a massive flamewar between the majority of American posters who think he is a saintly figure versus the rest of the world's posters (plus a small minority of Americans) who think he's a CompleteMonster. Logic does not enter into it. And don't try to sit on anything even resembling a middle ground or both sides will gang up on you.
  1112. * Go to a knitting forum and ask what's better, acrylic or wool yarn. Then ask if you can sell stuff made from copyrighted patterns. Almost as flammable: Mention ''crocheting'' on a fiber-arts board with a high population of knitters.
  1113. * Pregnancy forums. The single worst topic to bring up is birth plans (especially natural childbirth vs. using medication), but flames can quite easily ensue from breast vs. bottle, how long to breastfeed, cloth vs. disposable, how long to leave a car seat rear-facing, and pretty much any subject you might actually need advice on.
  1114. * Bring up spanking. Just about anywhere is fine, but you get bonus points if you mention it on a parenting forum.
  1115. * Vaccination. Also best on parenting forums. You're abusing your children if you vaccinate them (Autism!!!) or if you don't (for obvious reasons.)
  1116. * On any feminist/womanist website, mentioning whether or not you should have children will cause the thread to explode until the comments either are locked or the blog owner writes an angry response to the people opposite whatever their view is.
  1117. ** Also, try to ask about whether or not feminists are ignoring non-white women or about whether or not transgendered women should be included.
  1118. ** Also, being a housewife/stay-at-home mom is OK as long as it's what the woman is happily choosing to do, right? Right? AHH! THE FLAMES! THEY BURN!
  1119. ** And for that matter, gender politics in general, and what does and does not constitute sexism.
  1120. ** Has feminism ruined women? Are things really so bad as feminists claim? Are feminists actually just trying to get all the advantages of being a man with all the protections of being a woman? Do men have any right to the children?
  1121. ** Are feminists actually misandrists cloaking their hatred in a progressive ideology? Is misandry a serious problem? Does it exist at all?
  1122. ** The subject of right to life will likely do it too. There are pro-life feminists out there, and the generated flames will probably be atomic before it's over.
  1123. * For Maximum Troll, bring up Nice Guys versus Bad Boys. Are nice guys men who believe in treating women courteously and are genuinely kind people who unfortunately DidNotGetTheGirl ever, or are they StepfordSmilers who hate women because they are too pathetic and indirect to ever hope to get a women of their own? Who is to blame for the nice guy phenomenon? Is it the Nice Guys themselves? Is it impossibly high female standards which meant that some men were screwed from the start? Is the very idea of the Nice Guy sexist, because the closest female equivalent of the Nice Guy is TheIngenue?
  1124. * Is it possible to subvert MonochromeCasting and make diversity seem ''normal'' without people screaming "PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad?"
  1125. ** If it's a historical setting, also expect intense debate over the extent to which ethnic diversity is OlderThanTheyThink.
  1126. * Bringing up the issue of cochlear implants in a deaf forum is a surefire way to get roasted, ''especially'' if you say that you think cochlear implants could actually be beneficial for some deaf people.
  1127. * On any article/blog relating to LGBTQI or genderqueer (people who don't identify with male or female but are physically one sex) people, there are a lot, including should they adopt kids, should they get surgery, what to call bisexual people (bisexual? pansexual?). But, the biggest one is what English pronoun should be used for genderqueer/intersex people. Should it be what gender they look like? What gender they were born with? A gender neutral pronoun from a foreign language? Don't bother asking, or there will be a flame war. And suggesting "singular-they" not only doesn't satisfy anyone, but it will also start a secondary flame war about whether it's grammatically correct or not.
  1128. ** Also, whether or not asexuals should be filed under "queer/LGBT+." Asking this question is the internet equivalent of shooting an archduke. Tumblr and LiveJournal being particularly bad about it.
  1129. * Wolves. Just casually mention wolves ''anywhere'' and you'll be sure to entice the ongoing "Wolves are the most beautiful and misunderstood animal on earth" vs. "Wolves should be hunted since they're a danger to people and livestock" flame wars.
  1130. ** Pandas are another animal that will cause the flames on the topic of whether we should save them from extinction or not. Opponents will say "Pandas are stupid animals that refuse to breed and have no effect on their ecosystem and we shouldn't spend millions of dollars on them!" and defenders will respond "Pandas are adorable creatures that we should save because we'll lose them forever if we don't!!" and the flames will spread like wildfire.
  1131. ** Try saying you have a pet wolf. Either wolves make "beloved pets who are just as loving as any dog" or they're "dangerous wild animals that will attack at any moment". That, or you'll be flamed for just "having a huskey/malamute/(insert sled dog breed here) and just pretending to have a wolf". Either way, you'll have a nice warm fire to warm yourself up with in no time.
  1132. ** Wolves VS Hyenas is a big one. Which is the more misunderstood animal? Which is more badass? Which could beat the other in a fight? Fans of either side of the issue will tear any poor sap who asks these to shreds.
  1133. * Just bring up animal rights, and ask if there really are [[AnimalWrongsGroup Animal Wrongs Groups]] in RealLife or not. For real fun, bring up the fact that the head of PETA denounces animal research even when it saves human lives but uses insulin derived from that very research. The ensuing flame war will resemble the destruction of Alderaan for sheer ferocity.
  1134. * Which way the toilet paper should go. Apparently, this is SeriousBusiness among many housewives. How serious? [[ This serious!]]
  1135. * The NCAA Football Board on GameFaqs. Anything you mention will often lead to internet backdraft, if you are a fan of a team that is in the Big 10, SEC, or Notre Dame, expect even more backdraft.
  1136. * Designer dogs are a really touchy subject at the pet section of Yahoo answers. If you mention that you bought a designer dog from a breeder while asking a question there; expect to be insulted for buying a mutt from a breeder instead of adopting from the shelter. The flames will get much bigger if you mention that you plan to breed mixed bred dogs.
  1137. * Racial identity (and the ''one drop rule'') can cause this within ethnic groups, particularly African Americans. For example when people say they're one quarter this, and two thirds that (and the whole [[MemeticMutation ''I got Indian in my family'']] cliche), are they being genuine? or are they just trying to separate themselves from other black people due to social reasons like racism, and [[ButNotTooBlack trying to be more acceptable to the white mainstream]]? This tend to overlap with colourism (essentially a black caste system), and classicism. Very very deep wounds left over from darker times in America.
  1138. ** Even within people who are considered black there's problems. If anyone brings up Light skinned vs. dark skinned a debate will happen. In very extreme cases, dark skinned people will get called ugly and light skinned people will get called "not black enough".
  1139. * On name sites, especially, expect a debate in the comments of any name about whether or not it is okay to name a child or not. Usually though, a name that is fairly different but not too different or old-fashioned but not too old fashioned (like say, Phoebe) will be praised but a name like Emily will have debates over whether or not it is good because it is old-fashioned or bad because it is popular. More modern names (Haylee, Kayla, Kaitlin etc.) will usually be disliked because they are seen as trashy. There usually is more than a hint of UnfortunateImplications with these, ''especially'' the "GhettoNames" (such as Shaniqua, Tamika) , implying that they are for poor black people and poor black people are automatically bad or stupid.
  1140. * On [[ Damn You Autocorrect!]], a site about the phone feature autocorrect going bad and texting the wrong word, there is always a flame war about women for some reason. For example, a guy might say "I was at Mary" when they meant to say "I was at the mall" or something. If the woman gets angry assumes he is cheating, people in the comments will automatically call her names and assume that she's just being bitchy. That could be true, or he could have a history of cheating, or that could be his ex, nobody can really judge. Sometimes it gets so bad that the person who actually submitted the picture will have to comment about the real situation.
  1141. * Just talk colleges and universities. Have fun with people arguing with various stereotypes against each other.
  1142. * {{Spoiler}}s. On this very website even. This can be a really sneaky one too. Depending on where you are, some places are apathetic to spoilers, while in other places, spoilers are SeriousBusiness. Chances are, if you're a fan of something, you'll probably end up "spoiling" something at one time or another by accident (and thus invoking this trope) unless you're very lucky. Be careful.
  1143. * SecondLife. Just ask whether or not Viewer 2 is an improvement from Viewer 1 and watch everyone froth at the mouth.
  1144. * GodwinsLaw. Just bringing up the law itself is enough to derail a thread into an argument about Nazis.
  1145. * TheAnnoyingOrange: Just comment on Youtube saying that the show sucks and hope you run away from the fire as fast as you can. The fanbase is one-sided.
  1146. * Are the airlines justified in making passengers turn off their electronics during takeoff and landing? The heat is stronger than burning jet fuel.
  1147. * What do you get when you combine something that proponents consider to be a cosmic truth, cannot accept any compromise on, and view differing opinions as very literally evil? A religious flame war, that's what! Go to any post about religion (particularly on a news site) and let even a hint of religious bias out. The rest will handle itself.
  1148. ** Imply that Christians can be terrorists or that modern, Evangelical Christianity isn't what Jesus had in mind.
  1149. ** Say that the god-figure in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity is the same god. All hell will break loose from one side of the fence or another.
  1150. ** Compare attempts to get Christian religiously-motivated laws (e.g. most anti-abortion bills) passed with Islamic fundamentalist countries and you're good to go.
  1151. ** Say you support religious studies being compulsory at school. Expect two opposing camps: one which thinks it would result in science being struck off the timetable and children being brainwashed, and one which thinks it's a good idea but should only cover their religion.
  1152. * Go onto Website/YouTube. Post a video of your pet. Even if it's as something as innocent as you playing fetch with your new puppy, you'll be sure to entice a flame war about how to best care for your pet.
  1153. ** Fish. No, really. Anytime someone posts a video about their pet fish, be prepared to witness a flood of flame-wars regarding proper feeding, tank care, and whatnot.
  1154. *** Goldfish. Are they best kept in a bowl? A tank? A pond? If so, how large? Even further, should they be fed flakes? Freeze-dried shrimp? Or something else? And that's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Let's just say that the sheer number of InternetBackdraft goldfish care creates would be enough to fill its own page.
  1155. ** Exotic pets, or rescued wild animals that cannot survive in the wild (Often due to severe injury or abandoned by people who wanted one for a pet but weren't ready for the responsibility and end up abandoning it) fall under this a '''LOT'''. Flame wars erupt between people who go "Aww, that person cares. Look how they're taking care of that animal with so much love" and "How dare you take that beautiful creature from the wild!?".
  1156. ** Go onto Website/YouTube. Ask if it's better to get a pet from a big-name pet chain or from a local breeder. Flame wars will ensue.
  1157. *** As an added bonus, say you got your pet from Petco, Wal-Mart, or Petsmart and that said pet is healthy and happy. Be prepared to be '''flooded''' with flaming messages from both sides.
  1158. *** And you can also expect heat from the rescue crowd saying you should have adopted it from an animal shelter.
  1159. ** Posting a video of a snake being fed live food will result in this, all of which (for some reason) accuse the person of animal cruelty. IE: "You're so cruel for killing that poor rat by feeding it to that ugly snake!" VS "How dare you feed a live mouse to that snake! That's way too stressful on the snake!" VS "Frozen food is inhumane because snakes naturally eat live prey!"
  1160. ** Say ''anything'' negative about dogs. Anything. Even casually mentioning you don't like dogs will cause a flame war.
  1161. *** The same goes for cats.
  1162. ** Speaking of dogs, pit bulls in particular. Either they're a beloved and horribly misunderstood breed of dog, or they're vicious animals that will tear you apart in seconds. And don't even ''try'' to take a neutral stance on the issue.
  1163. ** Try mentioning you feed your dog/cat a "vegan" diet. On pet boards in particular, this is extremely contentious.
  1164. ** Would you believe the proper way to clean up your dog's poop would fall under this? Everyone, and we mean '''everyone''', has their own opinion on the matter and will gladly state it as vocally as possible.
  1165. ** Whether or not any animal can be considered "smart", definitely falls under this, especially when it involves people comparing their pets with one another.
  1166. ** Reptiles could rival fish in terms of the sheer number of InternetBackdraft that results in asking how to properly care for them. How big should the enclosure be? How often should you feed it? What should you feed it (See the snake example above for a more specific variation of this)? Should you use heating lamps or heated floors? No two people will ever fully agree with one another...if at all.
  1167. *** Mention you think turtles make a great beginner pet and that they're easy to care for. Reptile fans from both sides of the argument will be all over you.
  1168. ** To declaw or not to declaw a cat? That is the question, and no one will ever agree on the answer.
  1169. *** Speaking of cats, try asking if it's ok to let them roam outside. Either A.) You'll be praised for letting the cat get some exercise, B.) You'll be berated for risking the cat's life with various dangers, or C.) You'll be berated for allowing the cat to hurt the "poor defenseless outdoor critters". No matter what, flames will ensue.
  1170. * 9/11. Truthers versus people who believe the official story. Don't you dare bring up any flaws in a Truther argument, or you'll be flamed for being a sheep who believes everything the government tells them. Don't even try defending your argument with facts, or even video of the attack itself!
  1171. * Videos of StephenMerchant on youtube have become of this as of late. More specifically, the comments people leave behind. Let's just say that posting anything (And we do mean '''ANYTHING''') containing a ''VideoGame/{{Portal 2}}'' quote will result in you being flamed.
  1172. ** Likewise, even mentioning Wheatley on anything Stephen Merchant related will result in a ressurection of "Wheatley was awesome!" VS "Shut up about Portal! Steve was in other stuff ya know!" flame wars.
  1173. * TheHolocaust. Believers versus deniers. Nothing else will be said.
  1174. * Go onto a cell phone forum. Ask which is better, iOS or Android. Break out the marshmallows and hot dogs. Bonus points if the Blackberry fans start adding their opinions. Apple fans tend to complain about Android being a knockoff of (or worse, stolen)iOS technology,too fragmented with the number of phones running various OS versions, and the system being too open to hacking. Android fans counter that Apple is overpriced and too closed off/can't be customized unless you jailbreak it.
  1175. ** Ask a group of Android fans which phone is best,and war will ensue because it runs on so many phones.
  1176. * In some corners of the Internet, praising anything about the [[{{Eagleland}} United States]], mentioning being American (or worse, mentioning being a ''proud'' American) and sometimes even just ''mentioning'' the US will cause comments about how the US is a nation of corrupt, warlike, money-grabbing, knuckle-dragging, border-line fascist simpletons who fail [[YouFailGeographyForever geography]], [[YouFailHistoryForever history]], [[YouFailLogicForever logic]] etc., and yet [[CulturalPosturing consider themselves to be superior to everyone else]]. And [[CulturalCringe that's just from Americans]].
  1177. * Discussions about WW2 in any medium will eventually erupt into one of three battles, Which Allied Nation played the most crucial role in the Victory in Europe?, If X happened Germany would have won, or Was the US right to drop The Bomb on Japan? Break out the marshmallows.
  1178. * Go on any writing forum and mention that there are/aren't any writing rules and watch the spit hit the fan. Mention that you would like to earn money writing commercial fiction and prepare to be likened to the whore of Babylon.
  1179. * Go to the Internet Movie Database. Click any film or show's message board. You'll pretty much find people agreeing and disagreeing on everything, including other movies, Whether or not CGI should die, and even complaining about IMDb itself. There's just no pleasing nobody on there.
  1180. * The current debate about paedophilia and works featuring such on ThisVeryWiki.
  1181. * Post anything about an animal shelter or a group of altruist people helping dogs or cats with cancer o disabilities to find a good home. [[TemptingFate Nobody will flame that, right?]]. WRONG. Expect some random poster questioning why all that people doesn't spend their time and money helping other people instead, and watch the flames erupt.
  1182. * The debate over whether it's ever acceptable for a man to use physical violence against a woman. If you're a man, either stance will get you branded unmanly, sexist, or both. If you're generally against it, you're either an emasculated coward or a sexist pig who thinks women are too weak for equality. If you believe it is acceptable in certain circumstances (usually self-defence), you're either a pathetic excuse for a man or an oppressive caveman who readily uses violence to keep women in the kitchen. If you're a woman making the argument, you're an insult to feminism whatever you say.
  1183. ** There's also whether it's okay for a man to be ''chivalrous'' towards a woman. Is it an honourable act for a man to voluntarily go out of his way and help a woman, or a patronising insult to independent women?
  1184. * Fat people. If you try to bring up on how they should just put down the junk food and get up and exercise, you can expect everyone to jump on you for being very bigoted and ignorant on how people can be fat from things other than food. Likewise, trying to say whether or not it is a good idea to actually force people to eat or drink certain things via regulations is also a hot button waiting to be pressed over and over.
  1185. ** When Mayor Micheal Bloomberg of NewYorkCity decided to forbid most eateries from selling soft drinks that are 64 ounces in order to combat obesity, people blew up into a fit of rage. Naturally, there's two sides of this debate. You got those who believe the mayor is infringing on peoples' rights to eat and drink what they want and how much they want and the other side that believe the mayor is doing the right thing and are blaming obese people for the current state of the country (higher healthcare costs, less space, etc.) No matter how you present your side, the other side will always say you'er wrong.
  1186. ** Try mentioning you find [[BigBeautifulWoman overweight people]] [[BigBeautifulMan attractive]] (Known as a "Chubby Chaser"). Either you're someone who simply finds beauty in a particular group of people, or your a sick fetishist.
  1187. *** Furthermore, try mentioning that prefering fat (or skinny) people encourages eating disorders of any sort.
  1188. ** Mention that (insert big-name fast food chain here) is to blame for obesity. You won't get very far.
  1189. ** Ask if a nation's lifestyle or culture contributes to obesity in any way. You'll get flames in no time. Bonus points if you mention America at any point.
  1190. *** Likewise, ask if certain cultural cuisines are more likely to cause obesity than others.
  1191. * {{Netflix}} timing their massive price hikes around the same time [[MegaCorp Blockbusters essentially went out of business.]] It went over about as well as you would expect.
  1192. * Which is better to use on a computer? A mouse? Trackpad? Stylus? Good old-fashioned keyboard? No two people will fully agree. To further fuel the flames. Try asking which is best for which type of computer, or even specific brands.
  1193. * Post anything (and we mean '''anything''') online about Autism/Asperger's. The flames will commence immediately.
  1194. ** Try asking whether or not vaccines cause Autism. Or if certain medicines do.
  1195. ** Do ''not'' refer to Asperger's as "Ass Burgers". It will cause a flame war.
  1196. ** In general, it's a bad idea to say that people with Autism use their disability as an excuse to be a JerkAss online (Which often leads to the "Ass Burgers" statement above). Flames will surround you on all sides.
  1197. ** Try bringing up anything to do with [[{{Sonichu}} Christian Weston Chandler]], and that his autism made him [[PsychopathicManchild what he is]].
  1198. ** Try asking if any famous person (or any fictional character for that matter) is Autistic or not. Be prepared to be flooded with flaming messages containing "evidence" for either side.
  1199. ** Autism Speaks, '''PERIOD'''. The fact that they've done some genuinely disgusting and sickening things (like the infamous "Autism Every Day" and commericials that compare autism to ''death'') doesn't help ''at all''.
  1200. * Economics: Mises vs. Keynes. Or Von Hayek vs. Keynes.
  1201. ** And unless you're really, really cold, don't ever mention Paul Krugman.
  1202. ** What, no Milton Friedman?
  1203. * One word: Progeria
  1204. * Take a trip to any social science department and ask about the "science" part. You can spend an entire career watching graduate students and tenured faculty arguing over qualitative vs. quantitative vs. mixed methods, the uses and abuses of game theory, the rationality of "rational choice," whether or not there's something to consciousness beyond neurons firing, the inability of the "bio/physio/mathematical" half of the department to talk to "social/theoretical/normative" side, Foucault, the gap between what's proven by methods and what occurs in the world, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking what sociology is]], how much of physical reality is given meaning by social constructions, who invented social constructionism, whether or not neuroscience will reveal all answers, and more! Watch reasonable adults hurl expletives at each other over the direction of their particular field before breaking to go for a drink as friends.
  1206. [Politics]
  1208.  As one of the most controversial of all topics, politics is a very, ''very'' large cause of {{Flame War}}s. But some things in politics can get you an InternetBackdraft of epic proportions.
  1209. ----
  1210. * The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and the Protect IP Act (PIPA) bills, ''especially'' the former. When it was announced in Congress that they are trying to pass the bill, the entire internet exploded with rage, which is really understandable, considering the [[ potentially unfortunate side effects]] it will cause (such as making any International communication nonexistent and putting sites like Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr and even '''ThisVeryWiki''' at risk). So many users of the internet had signed petitions, called their Representatives, among other things in an attempt to stop the bill from coming into pass. It certainly helps that, in this case, it's not just the ordinary users of the internet that are raging, but many of the companies responsible for ''running it'' as well.
  1211. ** One of the more interesting examples related to this is the [] boycott. [=GoDaddy=] intially supported the bill (they would later withdraw their support). The final result? [[InternetCounterattack A massive site-wide boycott of the company led by Reddit,]] which led to over ''70,000 domains being moved'' from [=GoDaddy=] and they even declared December 29 "Move Your Domain Day".
  1212. ** And God help you if you actually support the bill, no matter what the reason is. Or even worse, don't even try to say that the opponents of the bill are a VocalMinority that don't know their facts. It doesn't help that supporters who do the latter (or both) either [[CriticalResearchFailure don't read the fine print or make false claims of people supporting the bill when they aren't]] just to get their point across.
  1213. * It's always been said never to bring up politics or religion ([[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking or the]] [[{{Peanuts}} Great Pumpkin]]) in polite conversation. This holds doubly true on the Internet, where political and religious discussion will often trigger some pretty massive flame wars, more so than any other topic you can think of. It is for this reason that discussions of political or religious topics [[BanOnPolitics are frowned upon, if not banned outright, in most forums that are not specifically about politics or religion]].
  1214. ** Has happened numerous times on [[ParanoiaFuel this very wiki!]]
  1215. * [[MisplacedNationalism Mention anything]] about [[{{Eagleland}} The United States of America]], and watch the FlameWar [[OnlyInAmerica crank]] UpToEleven. Enough said.
  1216. ** The biggest points of InternetBackdraft here is whether America deserves credit for many of its accomplishments in history(ie: the Moon Landing), as well as its foreign policy. Is it justified in protecting democracy and American interests or is it a facade hiding the real desire to protect the interests of corporations, billionaires and special interest groups at the expense of everyone else? Another point of contention that can result in many a FlameWar is America's support of dictators with poor human rights records in places like Saudi it unjustified hypocrisy? Or a form of RealPolitik that can be used to protect American interests in the long run?
  1217. *** Interesting to note that most of these argument are not necessarily Americans vs foreigners but [[BrokenBase Americans vs Americans]]. [[CulturalCringe Yeah]].
  1218. * Likewise, anything about early American history may provoke flame wars-----especially if you go on sites with socialist bias or sites with a large amount of minority users, more specifically, the treatment of natives and slaves, as well as the celebration of Columbus Day. While most would condemn these actions and find them indefensible the debate is about wheather these acts could be explained by ValuesDissonance and the fact that the early European colonizers did not "know better" or was there a "universal morality" that existed since the dawn of time that made these things unexplainable in any way.
  1219. * Generally, say that Creator/AynRand has some good points in her Objectivism to anyone outside of that group. Or for a change, go to an Objectivist forum and comment that Alan Greenspan is a staunch believer, and had been following the laws set out by it until he retired.
  1220. * FoxNewsChannel Or Faux News Channel? Are they really as "Fair and Balanced" as their tagline claims, or are the other news stations just as biased, if not more so? (It's really best if we leave it at that.)
  1221. ** Bring up any of the channel's pundits ForMassiveDamage.
  1222. *** [[CompletelyMissingThePoint Interestingly, most people don't realise Faux is pronounced "Foe", not "Fox."]]
  1223. ** Ditto for {{MSNBC}}.
  1224. *** The debate over MSNBC isn't about whether or not it's liberally biased (most fans agree it is), but whether or not it's as biased as Fox News. Some think it's a false equivalency as they believe Fox is way more biased. Either way you shouldn't bring the topic up in polite company.
  1225. ** CNN is a weird hybrid of both Fox and MSNBC according to some of the network's detractors. It's been accused of having a liberal bias from conservatives, and a conservative bias from liberals. Some TakeAThirdOption and say they're biased towards the status quo, In fact all the networks not Fox News (who's accused of conservative bias) are usually called biased towards the status quo of popular opinion. Excluding the ones that claim they're liberally biased mind you.
  1226. *** CNN has also been accused of [[GoldenMeanFallacy pseudo centrism]] out of fear of being called bias. So they split the difference by being ineffectual journalists. Backdraft comes from arguments regarding whether or not being centrists is actually good reporting.
  1227. * Is MichaelMoore the brilliant director who pursues the issues that are being ignored by the media, or is he a talentless one-man propaganda machine?
  1228. ** [[MathematiciansAnswer Yes]].
  1229. ** Hell, ''anything vaguely related'' to Michael Moore. The only thing that might -- ''might'' -- not cause a fight is criticizing his push to have ''Fahrenheit 9/11'' nominated for an Oscar. (It was ultimately shut out.)
  1230. ** Initially, this was not as contentious, since ''Roger & Me'' and ''Bowling for Columbine'' were critically acclaimed and went after AcceptableTargets. Post-''Fahrenheit'', however, Moore has become far more contentious a subject, due to his increasingly {{Anvilicious}} documenting and {{Author Tract}}s.
  1231. *** A more mundane reason is that Moore is a lot more mainstream now compared to his low key indie days. Being mainstream generally = more detractors and defenders given how wider the audience is.
  1232. * Global Warming. And it's ''not'' just the Internet.
  1233. * Abortion, gay marriage, and every flamebait wedge issue that any and every politician spout about in order to turn out their base for an election.
  1234. * The Romney vs. Huckabee wars went all through the primaries and on up until [=McCain=] picked someone else for his running mate.
  1235. * Any kind of opinion on RonPaul, especially the suggestion that his support was mainly AstroTurf. Go into any forum with a political discussion related to the 2012 elections, say you think he's America's [[TheMessiah only hope]] who is [[HeroWithBadPublicity constantly ignored or sidestepped by the media]], [[OnlySaneMan the only decent Republican candidate]] or a [[ManipulativeBastard manipulative]] [[KnightTemplar overzealous fanatic]] who's followers are acting like a [[ReligionOfEvil cult]]. Never come out sane again!
  1236. ** Within the Republican Party, there is much division on him. On domestic issues, a lot of mainstream Republicans find much to agree with Ron Paul, and respect his uncompromising defense of the US Constitution. But on ''foreign policy'' issues....hoo boy, just mentioning his foreign policy views results in a FlameWar that could burn down the Amazon rainforest!
  1237. ** Unsurprisingly, Ron Paul's foreign policy issues and defense of the constitution and of personal liberties have found more supporters on the left, especially with former democrats who are disillusioned with Obama. However, in this spectrum, his social views(ie: closing the Department of Education and ending the Civil Rights act) results in the aforementioned FlameWar.
  1238. *** By extension, Libertarians. The right thinks they're Democrats but with more drugs and prostitutes, and the left thinks they're Republicans with more worship of corporate overlords. Mention you are one pretty much anywhere but a Libertarian forum and prepare to be beaten down by both sides who will accuse you of being a sociopath either way.
  1239. ** The Newsletters: In the early 90s, Ron Paul's think tank began publishing ''The Ron Paul Investment Newsletter'', featuring a number of articles printed under his name and bearing his signature. These articles included statements that Martin Luther King was a pedophile and that a holiday celebrating him was equal to "Hate-Whitey" day, that "only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions" and most were "barbarians", and that society was much better when homosexuals were forced to hide their activities. While Paul has disavowed the content of your letters, and it seems determined that much, if not all of the newsletters were ghostwritten, if you want to start ''another'' Ron Paul argument, try suggesting that A. It strains credulity that Paul didn’t write, didn’t read, and didn’t bother to check what was going out under his name (and making him money) or B. If that is the case, then that makes him a completely irresponsible manager.
  1240. *** Speaking of the Newsletters, there's a supposed leak by Anonymous that apparently ties Ron Paul with Neo-Nazi groups. Anonymous denies that they did it(or did they?) and it can't be found anywhere on their "Nazi leaks" site or any Anonymous-based site, which lead to claims that it was a setup by the government to ruin Ron Paul's image. Be extra careful when talking about this, especially when near Ron Paul supporters.
  1241. ** Ron Paul's delegate strategy is also a questionable issue. With many of his supporters disregarding the popular vote as a "beauty contest" and focusing solely on proportional delegates. Is it a fair strategy or it it based around cheating the delegate system in caucus states to stack the convention with a VocalMinority and hope that there will be a brokered convention?
  1242. ** Gary Johnson: Is he the best successor to Ron Paul's legacy or the lesser of three evils? Don't ask.
  1243. *** Ditto for Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son. His popularity more with the "establishiment" and orthodox conservatives in contrast to Ron Paul's bipartisan support, as well as his endorsement of Mitt Romney didn't help.
  1244. * Speaking of the 2012 election, let's not forget Rick Perry's [[Horrible/{{Advertising}} terrible]](and now [[MemeticMutation memetic]]) ''Strong'' ad. Basically, it amounted to delivering a TakeThat towards the fact that gays that are able to serve in the military, and [[InsaneTrollLogic somehow]] relates it back to the fact that Christian children can't pray in school, which would be [[FridgeLogic all kinds of problematic]] in this day and age because, oh you know, ''there are people who either worship different religions or don't have one at all.'' This has caused a [[BerserkButton major uproar]] on the internet, as the ad amounted to hate speech to gays (while, hilariously, wearing a ''BrokebackMountain''-styled jacket) and other religions, and essentially stating that Freedom of Religion is overrated. Perry quickly became the most mocked candidate in America, soon leading to his exit from the race. Considering [[HeteronormativeCrusader his]] [[KnightTemplar reputation,]] few complained.
  1245. ** It should be noted that other than Ron Paul and (to a much lesser extent) Jon Huntsman, none of the other GOP candidates are popular in the internet. Claim to support any GOP candidate other than RonPaul ''anywhere'' on the Internet. Watch the thread burn.
  1246. *** ''Especially'' [[KnightTemplar Rick Santorum.]] The fact that he was an initial SOPA supporter (he tried to defend certain aspects of the bill in the Florida debate) and his views on race, same-sex marriage, birth control, pornography, college education and women's rights doesn't help things either. Neither does being listed as one of the corrupt politicians in 2005.
  1247. ** Also, mentioning the neologism coined of his last name (naming a byproduct of poorly executed anal sex "santorum") can lead to arguments as to whether it was justified
  1248. * RushLimbaugh's opinions on Sandra Fluke and contraception, [[InsaneTrollLogic and his conclusion that she must be a slut if she wants free contraception]]. The ensuing responses by other Republicans made it worse, with enough UnfortunateImplications that many have concluded that Republicans [[StayInTheKitchen are actively trying to revert the social standing of women in America to medieval levels.]] And good Lord if you actually agree with them...
  1249. * Anything having to do with [[ArabIsraeliConflict Israel and the Palestinians]]. Better yet, be Jewish AND critical of Israel. You'll be more or less called a self-hating Jew.
  1250. ** Similarly, anything relating to the War On Terror, Islam, The Arab Spring, US-[Insert Country Here] relations, or anything related to the Middle East in general.
  1251. * Hillary Rodham Clinton on...anything, really. Just mentioning her name will summon the hordes.
  1252. ** Actually, since the 2008 election she's become a far less contentious figure, especially after the media started framing her as the more "moderate" alternative to ultra-liberal Obama. During the 2008 primaries, she famously accused Obama of being naive and unrealistic, and presented herself as being much more grounded and tougher. Conservatives and moderates who'd previously despised Hillary found themselves gradually warming up to her, much to everyone's surprise...even ''they'' were surprised at themselves! Even if they still didn't like her opinions on domestic issues, many people found that they could at least respect her, especially on foreign policy issues, where she was seen as being a tough negotiator (which is arguably a big part of the reason she was appointed Secretary of State). As Secretary of State, she's maintained that tough reputation, and now has a higher approval rating than the President she works for!
  1253. *** Her surprising rise in popularity has gotten to the point where in a recent opinion piece, the Huffington Post mournfully fantasized about Hillary running for President again in 2012 and replacing Obama as the Democratic nominee.
  1254. * Whether or not any given currently- or recently-active politician qualifies as a "dictator", particular hotspots being George Bush, Vladimir Putin, Ariel Sharon, Stephen Harper, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, anyone who has led China since Mao Zedong, and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak(through since his downfall in the Arab Spring, it's easier to call him a dictator), whose talkpage on TheOtherWiki is clogged up by this very debate, including a nice little discussion on whether or not ''Parade'' magazine has any say in the matter of who is "officially" a dictator.
  1255. ** And speaking of China... just don't bring up China. Ever. Unless you want a China vs. Tibet or China vs. America flamewar, that is.
  1256. ** DO NOT bring up Taiwan. Just. Don't. Or the moniker "Chinese Taipei" or "Republic of China", but the correct terminology is "Formosa".
  1257. * And please, don't talk about the Holocaust. ''Especially'' on a site populated by Central/Eastern Europeans.
  1258. ** On the same note, it's often declared that you can't call anything other than the Jewish Holocaust a holocaust, even if it fits the definition and there is a distinction of capitalization. This goes for anything that may have been called such even before World War II. Saying something is remotely near the horror of the Jewish Holocaust will also have others jump on you and call you hateful names. You'll never live it down.
  1259. *** Case in point the decimation of Native American tribes, and American Slavery.
  1260. * TheIrishQuestion: Need we say more? [[ Look at these comments, if you dare...]]
  1261. * [[IrregularWebComic David Morgan-Mar]] once observed that you can't make fun of any politician but you can make fun of ''politicians'' as much as you wish.
  1262. * Two words: Sarah Palin. Even if you mention her name in a fairly politically homogeneous setting, you're likely to get blasted across the Web by flames as soon as someone either implies that she isn't the savior of the Republican Party or suggests that she has any redeeming qualities whatsoever.
  1263. ** This goes back to well before the 2008 election; she's been a fairly polarizing figure for most of her political career. It's just that the election brought her to national/international attention.
  1264. * Gun control. Whatever side you are on in the debate...[[FailureIsTheOnlyOption You will never win]].
  1265. * Bring up 9/11 conspiracy theories, either for or against. Supporters and detractors will come out of the woodwork, and the discussion will get personal within the page.
  1266. * Accusing a politician, or anybody in general, of being a racist. Hoo boy.
  1267. * Alternately, accuse a racist of being a racist. In the ensuing discussion, see how long it takes to fill out [[ the Bingo card.]]
  1268. ** Alternatively wait for some one to call ''YOU'' a racist when you point out perceived racism. Which causes a flame war within the flame war.
  1269. *** It's called hijacking the topic, or diverting the topic to avoid the discussion.
  1270. * Any political ideology which has been subjected to divergent approaches and/or applications. Examples include communism, socialism (which is a very popular word these days), anarchism and so on.
  1271. ** Asking which country is socialist is like bringing a flamethrower. (Some leftists like to say that the Soviet Union and its satellites and other nations espousing "Marxism-Leninism" in the Cold War era were never really socialist, let alone Communist, but "state capitalist" or "Stalinist", and will get very huffy when anyone points out that those nations did in fact see themselves as socialist and on the way to Communism.) Is communism what China does? What the USSR did? What North Korea (and Stalin) did? Who was a true communist: Lennin, Trotsky or Stalin? Is Kruschev a revisionist for de-stalinizing the USSR or a hero for doing so?
  1272. * Whether or not ''The War on Drugs'' is a [[HopelessWar hopeless battle]], racially biased, or even a just cause.
  1273. * The government of Canada recently partnered with Google to allow people to submit questions to the Prime Minister via the Internet. Turns out the Canadian Internet doesn't like the Prime Minister all that much, but absolutely ''loves'' weed.
  1274. ** Ditto with the American Internet -- when Website/YouTube accepted questions for a live interview with BarackObama, one of the most popular questions was about his stance on legalization of illicit drugs.
  1275. * Are you in UsefulNotes/{{Chile}}? Do NOT ask people about the 1973 Coup d'etat. Or about Pinochet and Allende. Even the most polite Chileans will go up in arms about what happened in the years that either preceded it or followed it.
  1276. ** Sebastian Piñera, as the first right-wing President after 20 years of left wing governments, is becoming more and more of a wank magnet.
  1277. ** You want another kind of flame war? Ask anyone living in there which hero of the Independence Process is '''the''' Chilean hero: [[RedHeadedHero Bernardo]] [[HeroicBastard O'Higgins]], [[ColonelBadass Jose Miguel]] [[TragicHero Carrera]], or [[MasterOfDisguise Manuel]] [[GuileHero Rodriguez]]. Make the question, sit down, and hope the ''enormous'' flames won't reach you.
  1278. ** Don't talk about Chile in front of Argentinians, Pervians or Bolivians (and vice versa). It doesn't help that the Peruvians and Bolivians have a huge grudge against Chileans for more than ''130 years''.
  1279. * People playing ''The Race Card''. And the term it self as far as how people use it as a sort of "equalizer" against people who claims racism.
  1280. * Is bringing up race issues a great way to have a open dialog on race? Or are said people "race baiting"?
  1281. * The Death Penalty and any issue that is considered one of the right-to-life issues. Abortion was already mentioned, the others are contraception, euthanasia, war, cruel and unusual punishment, and, sometimes, self-defense (although most [=RTLers=] will make an exception for that last one).
  1282. * Anything having to do with Turkey, Armenia, Greece, Macedonia or Azerbaijan. Can't even have an innocent, non-confrontational music video on Youtube from one of the countries sometimes without a flame war in the comments. Of course the countries all have a very [[ItsALongStory complicated history with each other]].
  1283. * Whether or not desegregation ended up being actually bad for black cities and neighborhoods in hindsight. Some think it was a double edged sword.
  1284. * The 2009 Iranian election is notable for causing ''massive'' InternetBackdraft directed at a single source: the Iranian government. So much that ''Hillary Clinton'' ordered Twitter to stay running so that people in Iran could tweet what was happening. Sadly, it was a real life ShootTheShaggyDog ending...
  1285. * Are we in a "post racial" society because of Obama's presidency, Or is that some liberal fantasy that naive people ''desperately'' wants to believe in so they can [[ElephantInTheLivingRoom avoid confronting]] racial issues? Or is it a ''conservative'' fantasy which is cover for junking all political correctness and giving everyone NWordPrivileges?
  1286. ** [[TakeAThirdOption Or both?]]
  1287. * Is transcending race about moving past our differences and coming together, Or is that a weasel word that really means [[ElephantInTheLivingRoom ignore the cultural/racial problems and not talk about them]]?
  1288. * Professional women and working mothers vs. Stay at home moms/homemakers. The latter sees the former as a bunch of self centered, judgmental, elitists. The former see the latter as a bunch of lazy, uneducated gold diggers who have no real ambition and set feminism back due to their acceptance of society's misogynistic gender roles. On the surface this does seem like conservatism and liberalism at war again. But both sides can actually fall on either side of the ideological spectrum, so it definitely goes much deeper than socio-politics. The problem here seems to be that some women genuinely believe that [[FamilyVersusCareer a woman's job is family rearing]]. (in the literal sense of having a family instead of a career), despite how politically incorrect that is. While Professional women...don't. This caused many a flame war on feminist type message boards.
  1289. ** The problem is that when some women got the taste of having a career they liked it, and found it more fulfilling then domestic life. While other women ''preferred'' domestic life. The backdraft itself comes from each side trying to prove that one of these decisions is the supreme ultimate goal of women. [[FalseDichotomy For whatever reason]] [[TakeAThirdOption it can never be both]].
  1290. ** A microcosm of this is whether or not there's truly a glass ceiling anymore, and whether or not the lack of women in high positions and high paying jobs has more to do with lack of interest among women.
  1291. ** There's also a double standard regarding stay at home fathers, this tends to be perpetuated by ''both'' genders. Is it ok for a man to be a stay at home parent or not?
  1292. * Do people (specifically minorities, especially blacks) who ''exclusively'' date out side their race just have a "preference"? Or perhaps people who just date what ever race is of convenience due to their job, and or environment not having any significant amount of men/women of the same race? Or are they just a BoomerangBigot whom are just making up excuses as to why they don't date their own race?
  1293. ** Alternatively is there a DoubleStandard when it comes to black men who date outside their race? Which is to say it is seen in a negative light. As oppose to black women who date out side their race? Either answer you give will melt your face off. The BlameGame around I.R. dating in the black community can get rather disgusting. To wit:
  1294. *** A microcosm of this is the debates over who dates whites the most (or any non-black people), black men or black women?
  1295. *** Do ''MOST'' well off black men date white women?, or are people cherry picking examples?
  1296. *** The reason some black women give for overlooking BW/WM couples is because as hetero women they're naturally more concerned about the loss of potential black male partners to white women, more so than the loss of black women to white men. But is this a valid reason?, Or a waaay too convenient cop out?
  1297. *** Then there's the debate over whether or not black women are "whining" about it too much vs the "''STOP TRYING TO TELL BLACK WOMEN TO SHUT UP ABOUT THIS!!''" crowd.
  1298. *** Black men give sexist, racist, reasoning for not wanting to date black women vs "''BUT BLACK WOMEN DO THE SAME!!!''" debates.
  1299. *** Is it ok for blacks and browns to mix?, or is that no different then dating a white person?
  1300. *** Then there's debates on whom has a monopoly on suffering in the black community men or women? Some TakeAThirdOption and say this argument is like 2 one legged athletes complaining about how harder they have it then the other person in a ass kicking contest.
  1301. ** preference or self hatred?, depending on your gender this could be acceptable or a deplorable excuse.
  1302. ** The same can be said for White people with a strong preference for another race - whether they truly just find certain features attractive or if it's based on ethnic stereotypes. People generally don't like when you suggest their personal preferences in romance/sex are based on some sort of -ism.
  1303. * Never, ever, post anything even tangentially related to Chechnya or Chechen people on Youtube. Even if it's the bubbliest, most benign Chechen language pop song you could possibly conceive of, it will turn into a huge flamewar over the Russian-Chechen wars. (Actually, same applies to just about any other post-Soviet area, especially if it's being contested like Kosovo.)
  1304. * What side of the political spectrum the Nazi's were.
  1305. ** In Germany rightwing-extremism (Rechtsextremismus) is used as a synonym for nationalsocialism and fascism. Just saying.
  1306. ** Bringing up the Nazi's in general is a bad, bad idea. Even mentioning them in passing is the small spark that starts fires.
  1307. * Trying to place any specified culture, or people of a specified skin color, on a single part of the political spectrum. A huge chunk of southern black voters have been called [[FoxNewsLiberal DINO's]] by others, including by other blacks, as many of the former have conservative Christian social views which the latter believe are more in line with the GOP. Some claim that these voters have come out in droves to vote against gay marriage, and that doing so involves undermining issues concerning African Americans by proxy when they vote republican. This issue can be a HUGE inferno if brought up in the right places.
  1308. ** Then there's the issue of homosexuals, and homophobia which the black community generally don't like to talk about openly.
  1309. *** This polarization within the black community reared it's ugly head the moment Obama came out in support of same sex marriage. The mushroom cloud could be seen from sub-orbit.
  1310. ** By extension some female and minority groups (and even some white people) cant comprehend that there are females and minorities who will vote with their political/Moral beliefs in mind, over issues specifically related to their Gender/Race. But of course vise versa as well. This can cause nuclear fall out when discussed. Mostly people arguing over whether or not issues regarding their gender/race/and sexual orientation are more important then voting for "moral values" or any other conservative agenda. Which is why some have considered themselves to be "closeted" republicans/social-conservatives, and refuse to give their true political beliefs. Almost like a version of BeneathTheMask of sorts.
  1311. *** Doubly so if the person is a minority, female, and or homosexual dem/liberal who is voting conservative ''solely'' because of a SingleIssueWonk.
  1312. * In Mexico, mention that Andrés Manuel López Obrador should have been president in 2006 in any news portal or at any forum with a large Mexican presence, and prepare for a good ''Carne Asada'', as threads will always get derailed back and forth by the sole mention of his name.
  1313. ** Who was the best president of Mexico? Just the question (implied or directly asked) is arson in forums. Also, NEVER mention the presidents Gustavo Díaz Ordaz to Carlos Salinas de Gortari. And don't talk about the "change" (that in itself is debatable) in Mexican politics after Fox became president. And don't mention Felipe Calderón with the War on Drugs: is he making a fairly good job at being president or is he failing for not being able to stop the drug lords? In fact, never mention Mexican politics ANYWHERE.
  1314. * Whether or not the legal/justice system is just, fair and or unbiased. This especially gets volatile when class, gender, age, and race is brought up. People think if you don't have money for good defense you're basically screwed (especially if your a poor minority), If your a female people tend to think you'll just get a slap on the wrist (unless it's one of those equally controversial lengthy drug sentences). There's tons of FlameBait arguments for and against these debates.
  1315. ** For fun, mention the phrase "activist judge(s)" and watch the fireworks.
  1316. * Racial Profiling
  1317. * Whether or not the news media can be effective while being objective, Or is objectivity a GoldenMeanFallacy that benefits no one?
  1318. * Some winners of the Nobel Peace Prize, especially if they're not exactly known for being peaceful.
  1319. ** In particular, AlGore and BarackObama winning the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007 and 2009 respectively are the biggest examples of InternetBackdraft in this issue. However, this is only because the internet was in its infancy in 1994, when the prize was more properly the "did not kill each other half as much this year as you did last year" prize and went to Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, and Yitzhak Rabin.
  1320. *** Going back to pre-Internet times, the awarding of the prize to Henry Kissinger was described by TomLehrer as proof that [[PoesLaw satire could not keep up with reality]].
  1321. * Speaking of politics in the black community: There's also [[WeAREStrugglingTogether contention within the black community]] over whether or not Obama is shortchanging blacks because he knows they're gonna vote for him anyway.
  1322. ** In general there's also polarization on whether or not he's compromising too much. And whether or not he's more of a moderate than a real liberal. Or is he just ''weak'', and afraid to look like he's not being bi-partisan?
  1323. *** This is also polarizing among his black voting base as well. With some black Hillary Clinton supporters and [[TakeAThirdOption black independents]] saying "IToldYouSo" to the black dissenters. And others whom are still loyal to Obama no matter what vs the ones whom are starting to be vocal against him because of the aforementioned reasons. This can get '''''REAL''''' nasty on and off the internet. Even among black journalists/political analysts etc it gets dicey. A jarring example would be the backlash from some blacks against ''Cornell West''. A guy that was at one point very respected in the black community, now he's a polarizing figure because of his critique of Obama.
  1324. **** Is it racist to be a progressive critic of Obama who happens to be white?
  1325. ** This is incredibly ironic cause as it's been already pointed out above, Clinton supporters think Obama's ''too'' liberal. Just don't go to a liberal message board and say that to disgruntled Obama supporters.
  1326. * Call something "communist" in Europe, (especially Germany) or "socialist" in the US. And don't say that raising the age on which you can retire is a good idea.
  1327. * Ask whether life has changed for better or worse in post-Communist Eastern Europe.
  1328. * Bring up the role of the Balkans in WW2 in any online outlet vaguely related to the Balkans, Germany or (perhaps most specifically) Russia. Lithuanians and the like will point out that Russia's treatment of the Balkan states pre-war was so bad, that it made [[EnemyMine Nazi collaboration]] the best option. Russians will retort with the fact pro-Nazi militias from the Balkans were so enthusiastic about the Holocaust, they were sent to commit mass murders the German command felt would de-moralize even the hyper-loyal Waffen SS units.
  1329. ** Lithuania and the Balkans? You sure mean the Baltics, where Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia lies.
  1330. * The Occupy movement as a whole, and Occupy Wall Street in particular. Say you agree or disagree with it's motives on a political site. [[SarcasmMode Have fun!]]
  1331. ** Want to add insult to injury? Claim to support the movement on a Conservative or Right-Wing fourm if you're brave enough and see what happens....(you might be able to get away with saying it in a Ron Paul-related fourm through, given the fact that some of the occupiers are Ron Paul supporters and that he himself supports the movement.)
  1332. ** Alternatively, say whether it works as a leaderless movement or that it needs a leader, or claim that it's dead or that it's become no more than a recurring nuisance following the eviction notices.
  1333. * Likewise, The Tea Party for the same reasons. The backlash generated to both of these groups has lead to some people(mostly Ron Paul supporters) claiming that both groups should unite against a common, shared enemy(big government and corporations). However, the "unification" argument is another heated point of debate on it's own....
  1334. ** If you assert that it is fundamentally racist because Obama is less strongly Liberal than Clinton but Bill Clinton didn't get called a Socialist, then you obviously don't understand how things really are. But if you assert that the Tea Party is not racist because its membership really is fed up with a government and a Republican Party which seems to take them for granted and never pursue things that they'd lie to see done, then you're a lying apologist.
  1335. * Mention the idea that the last President of the United States to be a Conservative was Bill Clinton, because he didn't spend money the country didn't have.
  1336. ** Asser that the Tea Party is or is not about race.
  1337. * Gentrification...
  1338. * [[DigitalPiracyIsEvil Internet Piracy]] as a whole, ties into the backdraft for SOPA/PIPA (see above).
  1339. ** [[ ACTA]] and the TPP can cause topics to heat up like wildfire. And NEVER panic and post when you see [[ this video about ACTA]].
  1340. *** Thing is, both ACTA and the TPP's effects on the US internet are ''slightly'' [[ overblown]] - at least in [[{{Eagleland}} America]]. ACTA's been watered down to be ''less powerful'' than America's DMCA (itself a cause of InternetBackdraft) - considering that the Copyright Alert system is going into force, TPP's own disconnection laws are likely to be removed just like ACTA's were.
  1341. *** However, the effects TPP will have the international internet (mainly some of the US' worst laws, such as the NET Act, which criminalizes infringement without monetary gain, and the abusable bits of the DMCA will be exported without Fair Use or a Copyright Alert System) ''are'' pretty bad, but TPP's other potential effects could be very, very bad indeed. Corporations ''will be able to sue governments if they feel their laws are cutting into their profits'', meaning that environmental and health regulations could be sued out of existence by ExxonMobil or Pfizer. In essence, corporations would be accountable to no one but ''themselves'', making them essentially sovereign states and allowing them to [[KarmaHoudini escape karma]]. The whole thing is basically a big MoralEventHorizon on the part of the [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Corrupt Executives]] of America. Fortunately, Congress (for once) seems to be on the public's side, and it'll have to pass through Congress to be ratified in America. Not only that, but the other negotiators, especially Australia and New Zealand, aren't too fond of the ideas America's corporate cronies have.
  1342. *** Good news, BarackObama, one of the only US politicians who knows anything about the TPP, is ironsiding negotiators into [[ including Fair Use]] in the TPP, hinting that the draconian IP chapter is most likely gone. People rejoiced, considering that it was formerly the US that was going for the gusto to such insane proposals over a year ago and the other countries weren't too keen on it. Presumably, the Copyright Alert System and the fall of SOPA and PIPA had a hand in this.
  1343. ** Was the shutdown of Megaupload justified? Be extra careful when talking about this in forums.
  1344. * Anything about [[OmniscientCouncilOfVagueness Anonymous]]. More specifically, The Internet "hacktivist" group known as Anonymous. Have fun being utterly burned by discussions about whether they are a [[LaResistance good cause rebelling against]] an [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Corrupt Capitalist]] [[TheEmpire Empire]], or a bunch of destructive AxCrazy [[KnightTemplar overzealous]], [[ReligionOfEvil cult-like]] cyber-terrorists only trying to get [[BigBadWannabe Media Attention]]. Don't ask!
  1345. * HR 1981, which was written by the same person who wrote SOPA. The bill is meant to fight [[PaedoHunt child porngraphy]], but many fear its true purpose is to [[ParanoiaFuel collect information every time you use your credit card, every time you read your bank statement, ALL of your IP information, and your search history for the last 18 months]], making it incredibly vulnerable [[NiceJobBreakingItHero to hackers.]] The many people who saw though the ThinkOfTheChildren facade were not pleased.
  1346. ** The bill seems to be one of the last things on any Congressman/woman's mind, fortunately. Smith tried to get a similar and worse bill that would retain the same information for far, far longer, a few years ago, and it wasn't even given a full hearing in the house. The same fate seems to have befallen HR 1981. And no, the Union Calendar isn't a full scheduling of what they'll vote on. It's actually ANOTHER committee, which will probably change the bill.
  1347. *** Oh, and one [[{{Reddit}} Redditor]] took it upon himself do actually do the research on the bill - [[ Turns out a lot of the stuff people panicked about either wasn't there or is in laws that are already in effect]]. Whether this is relieving to know it's not the BigBrother analog people who didn't check their facts claimed it was, or if it's ParanoiaFuel that a lot of the parts that seem awful in it are already in effect is up to you. All it will do is harshen the penalties for anyone caught distributing child porn and set a baseline for ISPs to keep info. There is '''nothing''' in the law that says ISPs must/can voluntarily give info to the government - the protection given to ISPs is protection from lawsuits by users if/when the info is stolen by hackers or identity thieves. Corporations also can't look at said info. A warrant or subpoena is '''still''' required if the government wants to see someone's data - which is exactly how it is now, and still requires a court order and probable cause - and there will be no-one in the ISPs or government who will be tasked with looking over each and every piece of data for something suspicious. Make sure you spread the word about these actual facts on HR 1981. It's bad, all right, since it has the "precrime" attitude written all over it, but it's not SOPA 2.0. Also, the EU and UK have similar data retention laws, and yet most EU and UK tropers haven't been arrested - hell, those laws are being repealed as we speak.
  1348. *** Also, the fact that ABC, which is owned by {{Disney}}, which was one of SOPA's key supporters, ran an article on it back in 2011 means that even the big media corporations are against this bill.
  1349. *** Oh, and it doesn't store people's browsing history.
  1350. *** Also, an "unregistered sex offender" - which is the only thing an administrative subpoena, which does not require probable cause, is allowed to be used on - is someone who has been convicted of a sex crime, but failed to place themselves on a registry, which is another crime entirely and unrelated to someone suspected of being a sex offender - most often, it's someone who moved to a new state, but failed to put themselves on that state's sex offender registry. This means most of the internet is in the clear.
  1351. *** As of now, it seems to have been removed from the Union Calendar - meaning it's not scheduled for any debates.
  1352. *** Apparently, even [[JerkAss Lamar]] wasn't dumb enough to realize that data retention isn't going to pass, and introduced a new bill that lacked data retention or... Well, anything bad. I guess the SOPA debacle taught him a lesson.
  1353. * Whether or not the Democrats is a true liberal party, Or are they Republican-Lite.
  1354. ** And by extension has the Republican party moved too far to the right. Even among Republican this ls polarizing. Interestingly enough some think the repubs purged the party of moderates. Whom are now in the ranks of the dems moving the party to the center right. Much to the chagrin of progressive/liberal dems.
  1355. * The Tea Party. Is it a bunch of racists who are angry that a black man is President, or do they have legitimate grievances? Nothing like them happened last time a Democrat was president, and Clinton pursued and enacted more staunch Liberal policies than Obama, yet he didn't get called Socialist, Muslim, or have news networks and political movements dedicated to defeating him.
  1356. ** Bring up how the average Tea Party member is older, white, better educated, and wealthier than the average American and then call them out on being a bunch of bigots who are more upset over race than having any legitimate political grievance.
  1357. * Major ISPs, effictively July 1 [[ will act as hollywood's personal guards]]. People are not happy.
  1358. ** It's not as bad as Europe's existing "three strikes" laws, fortunately. In addition, an article [[ here]] states: "Those not engaging in file-sharing on P2P networks will probably notice very little (cyberlocker sharing is not covered), apart from ultimately having to help finance the scheme through their ISP bills." That said, since a lot of users DO use torrents...
  1359. ** Ironically, the Copyright Alert System is one of the biggest reasons why ACTA isn't going to be as bad as it once was, and will likely prevent similar measures to SOPA/PIPA from surfacing any time soon. It's the lesser of three evils, one might say.
  1360. *** To put it bluntly, the CAS will make civil copyright infringement something that ISPs will police - without disconnecting or arresting people.
  1361. * Any effort by a politician or lawyer to effectively tie mature media (especially video games) with real-life violence and/or sexual deviancy and the corresponding moves to restrict or ban such mediums are met with rather livid responses, particularly among gamers or anyone well-versed in the fact that there's no correlation between the two.
  1362. * BillClinton. Good president? Great president? Worst president? Unfairly hurt by something not at all related to his policies? Bring some marshmallows. Same goes for BarackObama. Or any president, really.
  1363. * Like SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA, CISPA has come under fire, although the current version of the bill is far less bad than the original. The worrying Quayle amendment is also overblown, as A): ISPS can already voluntarily share data relating to the the abduction and/or abuse of minors and the threat of bodily harm or death to an individual, and B): Much like the rest of the bill, ISPS and the government cannot mine data for these. However, if data relevant to the abduction of and/or abuse of a minor or a death threat appears in legitimately obtained cyberthreat data, it can be used to bolster it.
  1364. ** In addition, the Democrat-controlled senate and [[BarackObama President Obama]] aren't too fond of the bill, and are unlikely to pass it in its current form. The one that's likely to pass, a bill by Joseph Lieberman, is, while far from being perfect, far better when it comes to privacy protections. All that one needs is its own "Quayle Amendment" to narrow its scope.
  1365. *** And Lieberman-Collins just got some '''[[SincerityMode incredible]]''' privacy protections and scope-narrowing put into it: the ACLU no longer opposes the bill, and in fact, supports it. Now the internet is rooting for Lieberman-Collins to pass.
  1366. * Simply say "GeorgeWBush" and start digging your grave.
  1367. * The Brazilian political cartoonist Carlos Latuff, '''especially''' if you bring up his views and cartoons on the US and Israel.
  1368. ** He even got banned from the Comicbookresources forum.
  1369. * Arguing whether or not weed should be legalized.
  1370. * If you're in the North of England or certain parts of Scotland, wind farms. Just mentioning them will start a debate over their efficiency, attractiveness, safety, economic impact and cost compared to other forms of renewable energy production, and which of those are valid points when constructing an argument for or against them.
  1371. * Anything to do with Julian Assange or Wikileaks.
  1372. * The Black Panther Party, Was either a violent racist group (although people forget they had white members), Or they was necessary to protect the black community from racist law enforcement, and overt police brutality during the turbulent 60's, and help also provide breakfast/lunch programs for school kids.
  1373. * [[TwoWordsObviousTrope Four Words]]: ''The Innocence of Muslims''. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement That's all we wish to say about this.]]
  1374. * Michelle Rhee a highly controversial figure in the field of education due to her aggressive style of reform and what some believe to be anti-union sentiments. Some parents and community leaders said that Rhee's speed left them without input on the changes. Some say she was a bold reformer, others had more...detracting things to say about her.
  1375. ----
  1377. [Professional Wrestling]
  1379.  * Any debate on whether HulkHogan or RicFlair was the greatest wrestler of all time.
  1380. ** StoneColdSteveAustin has crept into that debate as well, mostly on the strength of a comment made by Flair himself at his own Hall of Fame induction.
  1381. ** And fans of old-school or foreign wrestling might throw Lou Thesz, Rikidozan, and ElSanto into the mix.
  1382. ** And the "pure wrestling" fans might throw BretHart's name in, as well. They used to throw in ChrisBenoit, but... well... just see below.
  1383. ** It's not just mentioning Hogan in the same breath as Flair. Be careful about comparing Hogan to Nick Bockwinkel. Or Harley Race. Or Verne Gagne. Or Bruno Sammartino.
  1384. * In any ProfessionalWrestling forum, the general subject of the MontrealScrewjob can generally be brought up with relative civility, but ''never'' mention whether you take Vince's side or Bret's side. You won't like the results.
  1385. * Another wrestling example is the ElephantInTheLivingRoom: Steroids. Any mention of the S word is likely to touch off a long and bloody flamewar, not over whether they're being used (because it's simply generally accepted that they are, to one degree or another), but whether they're always harmful or can be helpful if used properly, whether Roid Rage is a real phenomenon, whether entertainment companies running a fake sport are obligated to, or even have a right to, screen for them, whether there are bigger problems (the two most common that become embroiled in this mess are painkiller abuse and concussions), etc.
  1386. ** Another ElephantInTheLivingRoom: the "f" word. Fake. Mention either that wrestling is "fake," or that it isn't, but as long as you use that word you'll have more than enough flames to roast marshmallows over.
  1387. ** It's less steroids nowadays and more about drugs and pills. Accuse any wrestler of abusing either (or often both) and you'll have a raging inferno in no time.
  1388. * Also, the legacy of ChrisBenoit is another sticking point among wrestling fans. Massive flame wars have been waged between fans who believe Benoit's murder of his wife and child invalidates anything he's ever done in the ring and everyone should burn their videos of Benoit's matches in a massive bonfire and pretend he never existed, and fans who think Benoit doing cool suplexes on TV invalidates his brutal murder of a woman and child and everyone should pretend that it never happened. Even those who decide on a reasonable medium between the two are still thrown by whether he should be inducted in the hall of fame, how his brains-state affected the situation, or how the WWE should address featuring him in future compilation videos.
  1389. ** And then you have the conspiracy theorists, who still claim someone else did the murders.
  1390. ** It's calmed down a lot in recent years, one can easily bring up the Benoit double-murder suicide in general discussion with civility mostly intact. Just don't take a hard-line side on the issue or all the ugliness will come back.
  1391. * It's not a wise idea to bring up JeffHardy anywhere in the IWC unless you are ready for the consequences. You'll get people who think he is a highly entertaining wrestler who is popular and puts forth energetic matches. Then along get the people who say he's a painted-up spot monkey who flips around with no technical skill or style. Then those two fight for a bit until someone comes in who says Jeff Hardy is a drug addict which invalidates everything he has ever accomplished. This has gotten infinitely worse since he won the WWE Championship because so many people have very extreme opinions on it. There are people that say he can't draw and his skills don't deserve titles, then you'll have people who say he's popular and entertaining thus he deserves a title. Then the "he's a drug addict" people come back into the picture and it's flame-war all over again.
  1392. ** Jeff's brother MattHardy is also a popular flame war topic, though for entirely different reasons. This stems from his conduct during the {{Lita}} / {{Edge}} debacle.
  1393. ** And now that Jeff's been arrested on drug-related charges, it's come down between people who support him and think he's innocent and people who think he had this coming for a long time and should go to jail.
  1394. * When it comes to the {{Wrestlecrap}} forums, start up a thread about Mickie James' weight issues, grab a GIF of Michael Jackson eating popcorn, and watch how far the thread goes long after the issue's been resolved.
  1395. ** And this is where the DoubleStandard kicks in at said forums; [[LayCool Michelle [=McCool=]]] has been derisively called "[=McRibs=]" due to the real-life weight issues she went through.
  1396. * Create a topic about TripleH or JohnCena. Then, just sit there and watch.
  1397. ** ReyMysterioJr and his status as a Main Eventer is also another hot topic.
  1398. ** On a similar note, bring up the PG Era. You'll get enough nutcases to fill an insane asylum.
  1399. * If Over the Edge 1999 should have been continued after OwenHart's death. There are those that say the event should have been cancelled after the tragedy out of respect and to help the locker room grieve. Then there are those that say this would have been logistically impossible to clear out an arena and explain to paying customers when they can collect a refund. The only thing both sides agree on is that it was a damn hard call for VinceMcMahon to make.
  1400. * Do NOT Criticize CMPunk. Do NOT imply that a SmartMark will make excuses for his behavior when they would NOT do it for someone else who did something similar (ie : MichaelCole). Just DON'T. You won't survive the next hour.
  1401. * TheUndertaker's winning streak can cause some pretty massive debates on some wrestling forums. There are those that feel it should end because it results in a older star taking the spotlight away from the new blood on the roster, or that it could help push a new guy into superstardom, or simply because Taker just isn't used that much outside of Wresltemania anymore due to his injuries and that he should just step down and retire. Those that support it point out that the Streak matches are some of the, if THE biggest draws of the event, it's a testament to the man's legacy, and that if it was broken, no man or corporation could reliably handle the controversy and aftermath. THEN you've got the arguments about WHO should challenge the Streak. It just goes on, and on, and on...
  1402. * Either criticize or praise TNA in any way, shape or form. For bonus points, compare WWE and TNA to each other. That'll really cause some fireworks. The vast majority of wrestling fans, will quite possibly verbally assassinate TNA, to be honest, but TNA's few defenders are much louder, and will literally explode with far more flaming and profanity-laced nuclear explosion-sized screaming ranting and raving to more than make up for their smaller numbers. Much in the same way you can expect to deal with Twilight fans when criticizing Meyer's literary ability.
  1403. * Also, bring up CZW on either the site, the forum, or any of Maffew's channels.
  1404. * Criticize JohnCena where a WWE fan younger than 14 can see it. Prepare for butt-hurt. Conversely, praise him in a room full of smarks. That might be the only thing worse.
  1405. * Mention ECW anywhere at all, and then prepare yourself for the responses either way, after you clarify which ECW you meant. if it's classic ECW then either Vince ruined it, stole all of Heyman's ideas and ECW was the counter-culture re-invention of wrestling to shape the second golden age of the business that gave the mainstream world ChrisJericho, EddieGuerrero, ReyMysterioJr and put wrestling directly into the 90's hip grungy, socially relevant second coming OR it was always trash wrestling with blood, guts, trash can lids and drunken hacks that couldn't do anything aside from bleed. And if it the "new" ECW, it was either a revival of a brand that brought ECW in to the big time that created new stars and a fresh alternative to Raw and Smackdown, or it was VinceMcMahon screwing Heyman over, spitting ECW in the face, and wringing the name out for a quick buck.
  1406. * On that note: Hardcore wrestling in general. Some feel that it's nothing more than glorified stuntmen hitting each other with random objects with no story to be told aside from exploitation for the crowd to gawk at. Mention being a fan of XPW, CZW, or IWA:MidSouth then get ready to be lynched. Others think it's a great way for really brutal and personal feuds to be settled with some wrestlers squeezing incredible drama out of the hardcore style. In addition: be very careful how and where you use the term "garbage wrestling". Some take it as a term of endearment while others see it as a knock on the hardcore style of wrestling.
  1407. * Lately, another hot topic has been unprotected chair shots to the head during matches (where wrestlers intentionally do not raise their arms to absorb some of the blow). Even since the ChrisBenoit tragedy and the revelation that Benoit had serious brain damage this has been just one big flamewar. One side believes they should be banned because of the dangers of head injury and brain damage. The other side believes that they are no more dangerous than any other move or bump in wrestling. This usually goes hand-in-hand with the criticisms of hardcore wrestling and the flame-wars they cause.
  1408. * VinceRusso used to get nuclear heat from internet fans. Some of it has died down over the years but you can still expect some Smarks to start foaming at the mouth if you bring up the Oklahoma character or David Arquette winning the WCW championship.
  1410. [Sports]
  1412.  * Tell any [[TheBeautifulGame association football]] fan that you don't like their sport and you prefer [[UsefulNotes/AmericanFootball American Football]] and everyone and their mom will try and hunt you down. Heck just being an American in an association football topic is grounds to being an [[AcceptableTargets Acceptable Target]]. Also calling the sport ''soccer'' instead of ''football''; even if they are both words in the dictionary to call the sport, even if the word was coined by a Britain and not an American ([[ no, really]]), and even if you are a fan of the sport, will cause [[SeriousBusiness even more enragement]] (Notice that I used ''association football'' for this reason). On the flip side, tell a American Football fan that you like soccer and you will be called a pussy, sissy, girl, etc. When these two internet backdrafts conflict...[[FlameWar look out]]. [[StopHavingFunGuys Oh yeah and you can't like both sports either]].
  1413. ** This also can apply if you replace Association Football with Rugby Football. Try and say you like it when you're with some rugby fans who will tell you that is the football players who are pussies for wearing all that padding!
  1414. ** For that matter, American Team Sports (American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey, even Lacrosse for that matter) vs British Team Sports (Association Football/Soccer, Rugby and Cricket). Sit back and watch both sides riot and call each others preferred sports "Lame and Fake Sports For Girls and Pussies".
  1415. * If you were wondering where all these sports called "Football" came from, in the 19th century, kids played their own versions of football however they felt like it. But soon after, there was a call in England for standardizing the rules of Football, which of course led to lots of arguing. In the end the arguers settled on two games: Rugby Football and Association football. Not long after, other organized sports based on these two sports as well as others were formed (AustralianRulesFootball, AmericanFootball, GaelicFootball, etc.) and all of these "Football" sports have since gained a foothold in sports culture. Of course since there are quite a few sports that claim the name Football many of these arguments continue on to this very day.
  1416. ** And why "foot" ball? Not because you kick the ball, but because these games were played by "the foot" - ie by people who couldn't afford horses.
  1417. * Speaking of association football, Diego Maradona is another example of a flamewar waiting to happen, especially if you compare him to Pele. Maradona is beloved for taking football/soccer to another level after Pele retired, while he is also ridiculed and hated for his drug habits, big mouth, and defeating England in the World Cup in part by scoring an accepted handball goal for Argentina (known as the "Hand of God" goal).
  1418. * Football forums where there are rules against Messi vs Ronaldo debates exist to keep debates as such out of every thread. Most commonly with a rule that goes "keep the Messi vs Ronaldo in the appropriate thread, and keep it away from the rest of the forum"
  1419. * In Latin America - particularly Brazil - it's Messi vs Neymar. If you compare either (specially Messi) to Pelé, make sure to bring some marshmellows.
  1420. * Oh no, that's not the best associated football/soccer/whatever-its-name-is war. '''Every single country''' in which TheBeautifulGame is popular enough to have its own league will have its own local flamewars. [[UsefulNotes/{{Spain}} Barcelona vs. Real Madrid?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Portugal}} Sporting Lisbon vs. Benfica vs. Porto]]? [[UsefulNotes/{{Italy}} Roma vs. Inter vs. Milan?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Germany}} Bayern Munich vs. Werder Bremen vs. Schalke 04 vs. Bayern Leverkusen?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{France}} Paris St. Germain vs. Marseille vs. Lyon?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Britain}} Westham United vs. Manchester United vs. Tottenham vs. (insert English/Welsh/Scottish/etc. team)?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Argentina}} Boca Juniors vs. River Plate?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Chile}} Colo Colo vs. Universidad de Chile vs. Universidad Catolica]]? [[UsefulNotes/{{Brazil}} Corinthians vs. Cruzeiro vs. Flamengo?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Denmark}} Brøndby vs FC København?]] [[UsefulNotes/{{Russia}} Spartak vs. Dynamo Moscow vs. Lokomotiv vs. Zenit Saint Petersburg?]]... Everytime, everywhere, someone will make the wrong question to the wrong fan, and everyone will be flamed to death.
  1421. * Unless you want a flamewar in football boards, do not mention the 1972 Miami Dolphins perfect season. Despite the fact that the Dolphins finished with a 17-0 season record after their Superbowl win, Patriots fans accuse the '71 Dolphins about having a lackluster schedule, about being an inferior team who just got lucky, about how the 2007 [[EpicFail 18-1]] New England Patriots had a longer schedule, and so on and so forth. The urban legend that some of the surviving original Dolphins supposedly get together and have a toast after the last remaining perfect team gets its first loss does not help matters at all.
  1422. * HorseRacing fans love to do this. Among the more notable wars:
  1423. ** Man O' War vs. Secretariat.
  1424. ** War Admiral vs. Seabiscuit.
  1425. ** Zenyatta vs. Rachel Alexandra.
  1426. * Tennis : everything and anything about Federer's GOAT status/alleged smugness vs. Nadal's Spartan status/alleged false modesty.
  1427. ** Also Federer's "boring-ness" vs Djokovic's "humour and charisma".
  1428. * Ice skating fans! Try asking about the new judging system. Now run away. RUN AWAY.
  1429. ** Vancouver 2010. Evgeni Plushenko vs. Evan Lycasek. Did Plushenko act like a SpoiledBrat upon not getting gold? Did Evan really deserve his gold medal or was he unfairly favored by the judges just for his nationality? Do NOT ask. Really, don't.
  1430. ** ItGotWorse for Plushenko fans. The International Skating Union [[ has banned him from international play]], putting his hopes for redemption in Sochi and his career as a skater in doubt. The reason: [[DisproportionateRetribution due to participating in skating shows without his federation's authorization]].
  1431. *** As of recent, it's actually gotten better for Plushenko's fans. The ISU [[ has restored him to ametur status]]. Just don't bring this up unless you're prepared to deal with huge flamewars questioning if his banning was justified.
  1432. ** Evan isn't having it easier, but because of a VERY different matter: his thoughts on Johnny Weir. Don't ask about them. It's for your own good.
  1433. *** Actually, [[BrokenBase Evan vs. Johnny]] itself is another flame war in itself. Accoring to fans, the topics are: Evan is an homo-hating gay basher who only gets medals because of the homophobia in the ice skating circles, Johnny is all show off and no real talent, Evan is an ArmoredClosetGay who hides his homosexuality by throwing potshots at others and specially at Johnny, Johnny is a prima donna SmallNameBigEgo, blahblahblah...
  1434. ** This has died down just a little, but debating over whether Yuna Kim or Mao Asada is better a few years ago is absolute suicide. Especially since the whole Korea vs. Japan conflict was inevitably brought into it and then the forums just explode.
  1435. ** These days, anything involving Patrick Chan.
  1436. * When it comes to IceHockey, the debate on whether Alexander Ovechkin or Sidney Crosby is the better player, can become very heated.
  1437. ** On that note, mentioning Crosby's "Gold Medal Goal" can sicken many [[AmericansHateTingle American hockey fans]].
  1438. * [=LeBron=] James, after he told everyone on national television that he was going to leave the {{Cleveland}} Cavaliers to sign with the {{Miami}} Heat. Suddenly the most beloved NBA player became...[[FaceHeelTurn not so beloved]].
  1439. * Despite that the OlympicGames are supposed to be about the best athletes, not the best countries, nationalism [[SeriousBusiness is regardless a very serious matter]]. Rooting for your countrymen can be subject to you being trolled on the Internet, especially if you root for a high medal nation like the United States or China.
  1440. * In Australia, the major sporting divide is between two codes of football: Australian Rules (played mostly in Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia and West Australia) and Rugby (played mostly in New South Wales and Queensland). The argument between fans long predates the internet, but the flamewars have gotten worse in recent years, as the national leagues for each code attempt to move in on the other code's territory...
  1441. ** Making things even more worse recently, soccer has a recently gained a foothold in Australia and has recently joined in the debate, which has not went well with fans of the other two codes and has started a bit of a back draft with Australians not embracing it in the international scene.
  1442. * Easy way to tell if someone is from the [[TheOtherRainforest Pacific Northwest]]: Bring up Super Bowl XL, between the Seattle Seahawks and Pittsburgh Steelers. Steelers fans will be smug, the rest of the country will have varying opinions on the game, while 99% of Seahawks fans will be happy to tell you all about how the '[[PunnyName Stealers]]' robbed the win thanks to a glorified home venue and in collusion with the entire officiating staff. For bonus points, suggest that the referees didn't affect the outcome. If you're lucky, you might escape with only hearing about the lack of an investigation by the mainstream sports media. If not...well, Seattle isn't really known as a pro sport powerhouse, but when the collective BerserkButton is pressed, it gets pressed ''hard''.
  1443. ** To this day, even unrelated sports pundits will treat every game between the two teams as a rivalry match-up, even though they are in different conferences and play one another once every four years and most of the players from both teams in that game have either retired or gone to another team entirely.
  1444. * The Cleveland Browns' relocation and as the Baltimore Ravens remains a touchy subject. Expect people to claim out of jealousy that the Super Bowl trophy won in 2001 by the Ravens counts as a Browns win, since many of the players on that team were on the final Browns roster before the move.
  1445. * The 2002 NBA Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Sacramento Kings, particularly Game 6. Basically, the Lakers won the game benefitting from shoddy officiating and bad calls against the Kings. The Lakers would eventually win Game 7 and the championship after. Kings/non-Laker fans believe that the game was fixed.
  1446. * Generally, don't ever talk about the San Francisco Giants in LA, and never talk about the Los Angeles Dodgers in San Fran. I think the fact that such arguments have resulted in fatal stabbings in some cases says enough about the matter.
  1447. ** Two words: [[ScrappyMechanic Designated hitter]].
  1448. * In CollegeFootball: Should the BCS be replaced with a Playoff system?
  1449. * Fighting in IceHockey. Do NOT argue against it in Canada under any circumstances. In fact, bringing up the debate up here is incredibly unwise.
  1450. ** [[CombatPragmatist Bring up Todd Bertuzzi and Steve Moore]]...then duck.
  1451. * Just DON'T mention if [[{{Scandalgate}} Spygate and Bountygate]] have tarnished the Patriots' and Saints' Super Bowl victories, respectively.
  1452. * Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, [[OverlyLongGag ever]], ever, ever, ever, ''ever'' say you like the [[TheScrappy New York Yankees]] anywhere. Not even in [[BigApplesauce New York]] itself, thanks to irritated Mets fans. '''And don't even think of saying anything remotely positive about the Yankees in [[HollywoodNewEngland Rhode Island and Massachusetts]].'''
  1453. * Lolo Jones: People either think she's a media darling because of her great personality, or it's because she's ButNotTooBlack, AmbiguouslyBrown and attractive. Also bring up how the media overly profile her at the expense of her other team mates, whom some believe is more deserving of the attention.
  1454. ** Compare her to Anna Kournikova ForMassiveDamage, which by the way is not a complement.
  1455. ** Some would justify her media coverage due to the fact she has personality and is media friendly. But that within itself is controversial. What's more important looks and personality? or skill? Ideally both but her popularity seems to primarily be based on her looks and charisma more so than athletic ability.
  1457. [Tabletop Games]
  1459.  * Whether or not KatanasAreJustBetter, on the WizardsOfTheCoast ''[[DungeonsAndDragons Dungeons & Dragons]]'' forum. Even suggesting that a katana should have different ''D&D'' stats from a longsword or bastard sword will get you flamed. Katana threads were actually officially banned for a while.
  1460. ** Recently, the biggest infernos have raged about 4E in comparison to either version of 3E. Just ''try'' to start a civil conversation one way or the other. And that's not even ''mentioning'' the other edition wars that go on.
  1461. ** It's now occurring within the 4E fandom. Go on a message board and say you like the Essentials martial classes or the web-based Character Builder, or try using the term "4.5". Watch the servers spontaneously combust from trying to handle all the angry posts for or against your position.
  1462. ** In addition to the infamous "Edition Wars" on ''D&D'' forums, is its lesser-known cousin "Setting Wars." ''{{Eberron}}'' is a particularly volatile topic as it tends to be one of those "Love it or hate it" topics, supporting fans applaud the use "DungeonPunk" setting, they feel that it makes the game unique. Haters are vehemently against it for the same reason. ''Forgotten Realms'' has undergone some ''major'' changes and therefore, has also caused a schism between fans of old-FR and new-FR.
  1463. *** Also, the FandomRivalry between ''ForgottenRealms'' fans and ''{{Eberron}}'' fans...
  1464. ** Within the third edition, a major source of rage is whether the ''Tome Of Battle'' sourcebook is the greatest thing for fighters ever, or the much-maligned "book of weeaboo fightan magic". Also, in certain forums, you really shouldn't mention that you think a non-caster could successfully kill a high level wizard, or that you think the monk class is overpowered.
  1465. ** Never suggest that Pathfinder is/is not D&D. 4E players will point out their game has D&D in its title, some PF players will say it carries the true spirit of D&D, while other PF players will argue that it has become a game on its own, and detractors will claim it to be a bunch of 3E houserules with pretty art.
  1466. ** Armor Class: ascending or descending? And don't get started on THAC0...
  1467. ** Another mostly obsolete D&D & fantasy debate was whether dwarven women have beards or not. Lack of beards (and attractive female dwarves) seems to have won out from the 90's on.
  1468. ** Challenging the accepted "class tiers" in 3.0/3.5, ever. Any build that calls them into question is invariably "twinking," even or especially one that just allows a low-tier class to compete with a high-tier one.
  1469. *** The issue seems to have finally be solved by putting the tiers into a system of ''how much'' twinking it takes to make them a GameBreaker.
  1470. ** In the earlier days of 3.0, discussing how a paladin's code should weigh in on any specific scenario was often a recipe for an instant flamewar. Still true to some extent.
  1471. ** Likewise, suggesting that nothing in the rules prevented monks from wearing gauntlets to obtain the benefits of enchanted weapons.
  1472. ** [[ScapegoatCreator Monte Cook]]. There are some [[CreatorWorship worshipers]] who are loyal to him no matter what for his role in designed 3E, and then there's his hatedom who think he's a prime example of SmallNameBigEgo due to his refusal to admit that, yes, he and the 3E design team did make some mistakes - that's why they had to make 3.5. You'll find that fans of Martial classes usually aren't too fond of him and his [[CreatorsPet beloved]] Wizards.
  1473. *** Related to Cook, there's the DND Next playtest. Is it a horribly broken game that has Cook's trademark GameBreaker casters and TierInducedScrappy Martial classes, or is it a well-designed GeorgeLucasThrowback to the old editions after the abomination that was 4E? Of course, there are some who are just sitting back and waiting for the kinks to be ironed out for the final version.
  1474. *** Shortly before the playtest went public, Cook resigned from his position at Wizards of the Coast. Is it a coincidence, or is he afraid of the InternetBackdraft from a broken game he designed?
  1475. *** Mike Mearls has a similar reputation among Caster fans who are afraid that he'll [[SarcasmMode break the game by making Martial classes just as powerful as Wizards]].
  1476. *** In any case it is still only in its FIRST version of the play test and we don't even have partial character creation rules yet. [[SelfDemonstratingArticle Lets not start an argument here.]]
  1477. * Talk about that WarhammerFantasy was once connected with Warhammer 40k or that you think that Aenarion is better than Sigmar or vice versa.
  1478. ** Try this fun little experiment. Head over to Warhammer forum and start a discussion about which is Warhammer Fantasy Rules Set is better: 7th or 8th edition. Enjoy.
  1479. ** For the longest time in Fantasy, there was a war between two groups of Chaos Dwarf players: those who liked their models to wear giant hats, and those who thought that the giant hats were stupid.
  1480. ** Swing by a ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' forum and bring up the Necrons, Squats, Chaos Tau or female Space Marines, and watch a rough approximation of the fanatical fire and violence of the setting play out across the Internet.
  1481. ** "There was a Black and White Space Marine on a Black and White bi--" [[KillItWithFire Hell]] [[BigNo Nooooooooo!]]
  1482. ** Do ''not'' mention the fanfic ''Squad Broken'' on a ''40k'' board. Or in ''any'' ''40K'' related gathering, for that matter.
  1483. ** What about Matt Ward? For extra bonus points, mention that you think Matt Ward does good work. Actually, probably not a good idea...
  1484. * Try mentioning anything remotely positive about any WhiteWolf game on a Pen&Paper roleplaying board that favors [[WizardsOfTheCoast WotC]]. If you REALLY want to get a bonfire started, use one or more of the following words: "Deep," "Conflicted," or "Morality System."
  1485. ** Not that debates on CharacterAlignment are any more civil, especially in regards to characters utterly dependent on a certain alignment (such as [[ThePaladin paladins]]).
  1486. ** This has caused drama ''on this very wiki''. See TheGreatCharacterAlignmentDebate.
  1487. * Swing by any forum that talks about WhiteWolf games with folks who remember the ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'' and ask if ''Mage'' 2nd edition or Revised is better. Despite the fact that the entire gameline has ended, this is still a great way to get a fire going. 2nd was more typical of the "mad, beautiful ideas" vein of ''Mage'', with frequent excursions to the Umbral Realms, whereas Revised went for a "the war is over, and nobody won" theme that brought it in line with the rest of the World of Darkness (and had a gigantic storm in the Umbra that hampered travel to any of the more fantastic realms).
  1488. * While you're at it, ask which is better, ''TabletopGame/MageTheAscension'' or ''TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening''. Fortunately, the ''Mage'' fandom as a whole has more or less come to a common opinion -- ''Ascension'' has better fluff, ''Awakening'' has better rules. [[TakeAThirdOption Most will then suggest you play]] ''Ascension'' using ''Awakening''[='s=] rules.
  1489. * With M10, [[WizardsOfTheCoast WotC]] announced the biggest rule change to ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'' since the 6th edition. Cue massive flaming war.
  1490. ** Every single card that is leaked for an upcoming set will produce a huge flamethrower duel on the MTG Salvation forums.
  1491. * Plastic versus metal for miniature war games. Or [[TakeAThirdOption Resin]]?
  1492. * ''{{Traveller}}'' has a few topics players are advised to tread lightly if they have to discuss, but none more so than piracy (in the sense of attacking ships to steal their cargo, not that other kind) and how viable it is under the ''Traveller'' universe's economic model. In fact, the chapter on piracy in one of the Mongoose books has a "FlameWar Warning" sidebar advising of the controversial nature of the subject.
  1493. ** Also to be avoided; Jump Torpedoes (small uncrewed message carrying drones), are they canon or not; the Virus, possible or not; Sonic Stunners; and of course Mega Traveller, a wonderful reboot or total crap ripoff of Twilight 2000.
  1494. * Go to a gaming forum and say ''TabletopGame/HunterTheReckoning'' sucks, and the diehard fans will come out of the woodwork. Although ''Hunter'' is generally panned by [=oWoD=] fans (which, depending on who you ask, is either because hunters are overpowered, because they're underpowered, because they kill creatures from other [=oWoD=] games and thus imply that Vampire or Mage or Werewolf characters are inherently evil, or because the art was absolutely TERRIBLE and had nothing whatsoever to do with the actual mood and themes of the game), it has its devotees, and if you assume that everyone on the board shares the common opinion, you WILL get soaked in gasoline and set on fire.
  1495. * Go to and mention ANY Palladium RPG, [[SchmuckBait see how it works out for you]].
  1496. * Don't mention board games like Monopoly around Euro board gamers or you will be burned for it.
  1497. * Propose any kind of fix or patch to the rules that makes Perfect Defenses easier to use on White Wolf's {{Exalted}} forums. Bonus points if you can get someone to froth at the mouth, or recite the "don't touch perfects unless you fix Lethality" mantra.
  1498. ** You get twice the rage if you make perfects ''harder'' to use. Also, if you discuss morality, someone will burn your house down. No, there are no exceptions.
  1499. ** With ''Exalted 2.5'' (A long-awaited piece of errata purporting to fix the lethality problem) released, well, it's anyone's guess whether or not flamewars will still erupt over perfects. Especially since 2.5 made it a lot harder to spam perfects.
  1500. *** The flamewars now erupt around the third edition that comes out in December and what any given aspect of it should be like.
  1501. ----
  1503. [Theater]
  1505.  !!! Wicked:
  1506. * Go to a British ''Theatre/{{Wicked}}'' forum and start talking about your favorite actress for the role of Elphaba. Once the dust settles between the Idina Menzel fans and the Kerry Ellis fans, you may be surprised to learn there are many more actresses who have played the role.
  1507. * You can do the same trick on most Broadway ''Theatre/{{Wicked}}'' forums with Idina Menzel vs Shoshana Bean, or by suggesting that "Defying Gravity" is Stephanie J. Block's song rather than Menzel's.
  1508. * Liking a Glinda who wasn't Kristin Chenoweth is always good for a fight.
  1509. * Another British Wicked fight - Adam Garcia vs. Oliver Tompsett. And then Americans throw in Seb, Kris, and NLB. Loosely translated, it's an all-out battle royale for who the crap is the hottest Fiyero.
  1510. * [[DieForOurShip Shippings shouldn't be talked about if you don't want to start a riot]]. Is the FanPreferredCouple [[LesYay Glinda and Elphaba]] the one true pairing and fantastic case of StarcrossedLovers, or is it just shippers thinking everything is romantic? Is Fiyero's and Elphaba's lovely or just getting in the way? They're [[WordOfGay both]] canon so that adds fuel to flame.
  1511. ** Related to it, but the sexualities of anyone. Is everyone Bisexual until proven otherwise or not? Is Glinda gay, or not?
  1512. * Preferring either the book or musical, depending who you ask, is just asking for trouble.
  1514. !!! ''Theatre/LesMiserables'':
  1515. * Do you prefer Frances Ruffelle as [[Theatre/LesMiserables Eponine]]? Yes? Then prepare for the Lea Salonga fangirls to rip you to shreds.
  1516. * Do you prefer Lea Salonga as Eponine? Yes? Then prepare for the Frances Ruffelle fangirls to tear you to pieces.
  1517. * Do you prefer Samantha Barks as Eponine? Yes? Then prepare for both sets of fangirls to turn on you and leave you splattered in a bloody mess all over the floor.
  1518. * Do you think Marius belongs with [[OfficialCouple Cosette]]? Yes? You will die.
  1519. * Do you think Marius belongs with [[FanPreferredCouple Eponine]]? Yes? You will die.
  1520. * Do you love Colm Wilkinson as Valjean? Yes? You will die.
  1521. * Do you think Colm Wilkinson wasn't all that great as Valjean? Yes? You will die.
  1522. * Do you think Michael Ball is the Best Marius Ever and no one else could ever compare? Yes? You... will actually be all right on that one, come to think of it.
  1523. * Say that Ruthie Henshall is the best Fantine? Prepare to be killed by the Lea Salonga fans.
  1524. * Say that Lea Salonga is the best Fantine? Prepare to be killed by the Ruthie Henshall fans.
  1525. * Say that Patti LuPone is the best Fantine. Prepare to be ignored.
  1526. * Say anything remotely positive about Nick Jonas's performance as Marius. Enjoy the fireworks.
  1528. !!! {{Rent}}
  1529. * Who was the best Mimi: Daphne Rubin-Vega or RosarioDawson? Cue flamewar in 3... 2... 1...
  1530. ** Suggest that VanessaHudgens was the best Mimi and you will either be torn to shreds or completely ignored.
  1531. * Say Adam Pascal is the best Roger and prepare to be killed by Will Chase fans.
  1532. * Say Will Chase is the best Roger and prepare to be killed by Adam Pascal fans.
  1533. * Idina Menzel or Eden Espinosa, who is the better Maureen? Either answer will get you eaten alive by the other actress' fans.
  1534. * Insult [[AuthorExistenceFailure Jonathan Larson]], the play itself, and/or any of its characters (especially [[TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth Angel]]) and you ''will'' die.
  1535. * Don't express any preference to the play or TheMovie, unless you have a death wish.
  1537. !!! Awards:
  1538. * ''Wicked'' v. ''Avenue Q'' for the 2003 Tony is a polarizing topic, and it's ''not'' the oldest fight still going on.
  1539. * Going further back, we have the Great ''Lion King'' Vs. ''Ragtime'' Debate of 1998.
  1540. * 1988's ''PhantomOfTheOpera'' vs. ''IntoTheWoods'' combines the "Who really should have won the Tony" and the "AndrewLloydWebber vs StephenSondheim" debates ForMassiveDamage.
  1541. * There are still heated discussions on whether or not ''Hair'' should have won back in 1969 over ''1776''.
  1542. * Or ''Billy Elliot'' beating ''Next to Normal'' in 2009. In general, any time a more traditional or tourist-oriented show beats an original show catering to hardcore fans, there will be polarization.
  1543. * Mention [[{{Company}} Raúl Esparza]]'s loss to David Hyde Pierce for Best Actor in a Musical in 2007. Watch the fireworks.
  1545. !!! Other
  1546. * Saying that you like ANY other version of [[RockyHorrorPictureShow Dr. Frank N Furter]] other than TimCurry. Flaming will ensue.
  1547. ** Which is better? The play or the movie? Which has better audience participation? Which had better actors? The fandom will tear each other apart over anyone asking any of these questions.
  1548. ** Riff Raff VS Dr. Frank N. Furter. If asked at the wrong time, this can spark a huge inferno.
  1549. ** Try to ask if the scrapped sequel ''Revenge Of The Old Queen'' really was written by Richard O'Brien or if it was just an elaborate TrollFic that everyone fell for. You will not get far before getting burned.
  1550. ** [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Was Frank a misunderstood being who had some emotional problems or is he a cruel sex-crazed lunatic who manipulates people for his own personal gain?]] Cue flamewar in 3...2...1....
  1551. ** Try mentioning you dislike/hate Columbia. Good luck. You'll need it.
  1552. * Guaranteed Backdraft bait: Bernadette Peters, MandyPatinkin, Patti [=LuPone=], StephenSondheim, AndrewLloydWebber. Express either liking or disliking them and the other side will start flaming. For an evenbigger flamefest, say they're [[SoOkayItsAverage OK -- not great, not horrible]], and you get to watch both the Haters and the Fans go up in a fireball together.
  1553. * State a preference for either StephenSondheim or Andrew Lloyd Webber. If it's the former, expect to be called an elitist who can't enjoy entertainment, and the latter, a soppy, sentimental idiot. Expect the ALW fans to talk about how Stephen Sondheim doesn't write "hummable" music, and the Sondheimites to drag out the whole stealing-from-opera thing. However, saying you like ''both'' may defuse the situation as both sides stare at you in blank incomprehension.
  1554. * On the Andrew Lloyd Webber note: mention the ''PhantomOfTheOpera'' sequel ''Love Never Dies''. The very name is enough to erupt flames. Not hot enough for you? Don't just mention it, say that it's a ''good'' show.
  1555. ** Say you think ''{{Cats}}'' was good on a theatre forum. Wear asbestos underwear -- you will be flamed.
  1556. ** If that doesn't work, rinse and repeat, replacing the title with ''SpringAwakening''.
  1557. * ''ThePhantomOfTheOpera'':
  1558. ** Sarah Brightman vs. Rebecca Caine.
  1559. ** Michael Crawford vs. Howard [=McGillin=] vs. Colm Wilkinson.
  1560. *** These days, mentioning Ramin Karimloo and/or Sierra Boggess (especially in comparison to any of the above performers) can also cause a healthy amount of backdraft. It doesn't help that they were featured in the show's ContestedSequel ''and'' the 25th anniversary concert.
  1561. ** The Phantom: Heroic romantic figure, or creepy stalker?
  1562. * Antistratfordianism (the hypothesis that Creator/WilliamShakespeare's plays were not really written by William Shakespeare) is a can of worms you don't want to even mention, much less open. Be careful, the mere mention of [[Creator/ChristopherMarlowe Kit Marlowe]] or Sir Francis Bacon is playing with fire on some Shakespeare forums as it can be constued as having antistratfordian implications.
  1563. * Or Shakespeare's sexuality, for that matter. It's been less of a hot-button topic lately, but don't bring that up. Don't even bring up the sexualities of some of his characters.
  1564. * Ask five musical theatre fans about the origin of the term 11 O'Clock Number. You'll get fifteen explanations and a sore head.
  1565. * Like TanzDerVampire? Like the Hamburg DVD? Prepare to be bombed with endless commentary on how it features The Worst Cast Ever.
  1566. ** Magda: blonde or redhead? Village bicycle or virginal victim?
  1567. ** Say anything positive about the Broadway production, or praise Michael Crawford around ''Tanz'' fans. [[PassThePopcorn It's especially entertaining]] when hardcore ''Tanz'' fans (who tend to despise Crawford) meet ''[[ThePhantomOfTheOpera Phantom of the Opera]]'' [[FanNickname Phans]] (who generally adore him).
  1570. [Toys]
  1572.  * Bring knockoffs topic up in any of the twisty puzzle communities.
  1573. * {{Webkinz}}. Even casually mentioning them is bound to bring up wars of "OMG! They are so cute and awesome. I collect all of them!" VS "They are so overrated! Just stupid plush toys with a virtual pet gimmick!" flame wars.
  1574. ** Beanie Babies as well. Were they the most famous toy fad ever? Cute, but over-rated, or just a bunch of worthless plush animals everyone went crazy over for some silly reason? No one will ever fully agree on the answer.
  1575. ** Speaking of Webkinz, ask whether or not the virtual-only pets go against the original point of Webkinz (IE: Plush toys you can also play with online). You will be flamed immediately.
  1576. ** Don't ask if Webkinz ripped-off Neopets or if Beanie Babies ripped-off Webkinz or if Webkinz ripped-off Beanie Babies or...pretty much don't ask if any of them are mere rip-offs of the other. Just don't.
  1577. * There has been a semi-subdued flame war raging on {{Bzpower}} over whether {{Hero Factory}} is any good or not. While most people are satisfied with meeting in the middle, there are some {{Stop Having Fun Guys}} extremists on both sides. Hey, even plastic toys can be {{Serious Business}}.
  1578. ** Also be careful about bringing up ''{{Bionicle}}'', or really, ''any'' Constraction line (''{{Slizers}}'', ''RoboRiders'') in a positive light, especially when older fans of LEGO are around. They're not compatible with "real" LEGO pieces, [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch and they have these lame and kiddie/violent and gory stories]], [[BlatantLies see]]?
  1579. * Barbie. Just, Barbie. On one side, Barbie is nothing but a DumbBlonde who is too obsessed with shopping and fashion, and is a terrible role model for girls. On the other side, Barbie is a great role model because the dolls come with a wide variety of hobbies and careers. Post either opinion and let the flaming ensue.
  1580. ** Fashion Fever VS The Fashionistas. [[SeriousBusiness Just watch as long time fans explain how]] CharacterDevelopment has been killed by the NoNameGiven SchrodingersPlayerCharacter versus the moms who like that the dolls can now literally have whatever personality the little girls want and name their dolls. Don't even try bringing up ''Swappin' Styles''...
  1581. * Bratz dolls: some see them as fun fashion dolls with attitude, others see them as slutty bimbos who do nothing but shop and talk about boys.
  1582. ** Also bringing up whether Bratz or Barbie dolls are better. Bratz supporters insist that Bratz are cooler, have more attitude, and Barbie fans are just jealous of the success of the Bratz dolls. Barbie supporters believe that Bratz are brainless bimbos with no interest other than fashion, while Barbie has many interests and career options.
  1583. * Ball. Jointed. Dolls. Do you like Chinese companies? Prepare to be told that 'you're settling for cheap' or that 'you're going to get a knockoff'. Don't like Chinese companies? You're an elitist. Opinions on companies going through problems is also flame bait. And don't even get started on whether or not Volks is the best company, the worst company, or merely 'good'.
  1584. * Most ''{{Transformers}}'' fans know better than to ever speak the words "''Classics'' Thundercracker" in the presence of other fans. For the uninitiated, Thundercracker is a character known primarily for being one of several "Seekers" who are just [[TheStarscream Starscream]] [[PaletteSwap in different colors]], and ''Classics'' was a 2006 toyline revisiting various older ''Transformers'' characters (and colloquially also refers to similar updated toys in later lines). ''Classics'' ended with only two of the three original Seekers released, so to complete the set, Fun Publications decided to sell a Thundercracker version of the ''Classics'' Starscream toy as a limited-run exclusive at [[FanConvention BotCon 2007]]. Years later, in the 2010-2011 ''[[SpiritualSuccessor Transformers: Generations]]'' line, Hasbro reused the same plastic molds to make another, slightly different Thundercracker toy. The result of this is that one group of fans is adamant that Fun Publications "stole" Thundercracker in a travesty of toymaking which has only recently been corrected by ''Generations'' Thundercracker, while another group holds that a ''Classics''-like Thundercracker should have been the exclusive right of convention exclusive owners forever, a sacred contract that was ''Generations'' Thundercracker violated.
  1585. ** For more fun, bring up third-party figures and/or accessories. You'll quickly discover two exciting new kinds of fans: people who view even the best third-party toys in about the same light as dollar store bootlegs (that is, poorly-produced garbage) and think any ''true fan'' would focus solely on the far superior official Hasbro and Takara toys, and people who think the same thing except with "third-party" and "official Hasbro and Takara" switched.
  1586. * Bootlegs. No, seriously. It's best ''not'' to mention bootleg toys online.
  1587. * Try mentioning you even ''remotely'' like Megabloks, or, for added flames, claim that they're better than LEGO.
  1588. * ''MonsterHigh'': Say you like the [[FanonDiscontinuity book series]] better than the webisodes.
  1589. * Try to claim that toys are only for kids and that adults who play with/collect toys have no social life. You won't get far.
  1590. ** Likewise, try claiming that action figures geared towards older consumers are not really "toys" but rather "collectables". Even if you claim ''both'' sides are technically correct, the flame war that ensues would be enought to power a small town for centuries.
  1591. ** If your'e an adult and you collect toys, do NOT mention you play with them. Furthermore, never mention that they are anything but "Mint In Box/Package".
  1592. * For a long time, Squishables (A toy company that produces large rotund plush animals) and Pillow Pets fans were at a huge flame war with one another. Merely ''mentioning'' one company around another was enough to cause either side to foam at the mouth in rage.
  1593. ** And don't you '''dare''' say you like both. It will cause fans from either side to rain their wrath down upon you.
  1594. *** Ironic, considering Squishables themselves said that they liked Pillow Pets and believed ''all'' plushies deserve to be loved.
  1595. ** Are Beanie Ballz (A rotund plush toy created by TY) knock-offs of Squishables. Technically, no, since you can't copyright a generic shape (In this case, a circle). Try telling that to the fandom, though. You might want to wear a fire-proof suit while doing so.
  1596. ** One that Squishables has brought upon themselves is that their Facebook page allows fans to suggest ideas for new [[FanNickname Squishy]] designs. Unfortunately, this has constantly renewed the old flame war of "Make (Insert character here)" VS "Squishables can't make copyrighted characters!". [[hottip:note: This is true. Legally, Squishables cannot make plush of copyrighted characters unless they get permission from the copyright holders first. And that's not including liscencing fees or royalties.]]
  1597. *** Likewise, there's the whole endless loop of "Make a zombie/ninja [[hottip:note: They did make a DrMcNinja Squishables, one of the very few copyrighted-character Squishables produced]] /vampire Squishy!" VS "Squishables doesn't do humanoid characters."
  1598. ** In March 2012, Squishables held a "Squishy March Madness" event on Facebook in which they had fans vote for which Squishable should be made next. Needless to say, it quickly turned into a flame war where fans would post photos degrading the other choice and the mere mentioning of one animal would cause backlash from fans of the other. It wasn't long before a few fans left in disgust. To say it's a touchy subject for them would be an understatement.
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