[12:55 AM] i-4715☭: Alright, Shroom, this is probably bad timing because the April Fools event is about to happen and I know there’s already tension surrounding that, but this is something I personally feel the need to address.
[12:55 AM] i-4715☭: Before I say anything, I want to make clear that I’m not trying to instigate drama for the sake of it. I thought about having an open discussion on the forums, but I didn’t want you to feel like I was publically calling you out. That being said, I also I want to give full disclosure that I’ll probably share chat logs with staff. Also, I’m not trying to be a moral barometer, this is just me making clear what my stance on you being staff is after giving you a fair shot. I’m not going to go into any disagreements we have pertaining to policies on the forums. Instead I want to focus on how you handle situations.
[12:55 AM] i-4715☭: Flat out, I don’t feel that you’re currently capable of being a staff member. For some reason, deep down I want to see you succeed. You’re so passionate and dedicated to the forums, and I don’t want to see that wasted. But every time I think that, you do something that makes part of me start to boil. I probably wouldn’t be nearly as upset if I didn’t try to be understanding of you, but that’s no reason for me to not at least try. I get that this is probably incredibly frustrating for you, but I need to just lay out the issues I have (in no real order).
[12:55 AM] i-4715☭: 1. Grouping together people and trying to make people’s opinion sound less valuable because they’re part of that group. I probably sound most biased on this issue because I’m pretty sure I’m part of the group you consider “small-opinionated”, but I’m pretty sure I still have a valid point here. I get that you don’t like the FoA, and that’s fine. But you have to understand that because we all like to cut loose on a sub-forum, doesn’t mean we all share the same opinions. And that goes for all groups. During the discussion we had on Discord a few weeks ago about not over simplifying communities because not everyone in a community is the same, you said something along the lines of “I’m done talking about BS communities” (not exact quotation), which is completely infuriating to me. It went against the entire point of the conversation and showed that you didn’t change from it at all.
[12:55 AM] i-4715☭: 2. Gaslighting. I haven’t seen you do this as much recently, but it still happens way more than it should. No matter what, you’ll never fully understand someone’s life. So don’t try to play psychologist and make up reasons for them acting a certain way. It’s just not right. We’re all real people with complex issues that you aren’t going to get purely from sub-text over an online text chat.
[12:56 AM] i-4715☭: 3. Victimizing yourself. This is the easiest one for me to get where you’re coming from. You’re a lot more sensitive to some things than most other forum members, and I respect your right to that. But at the same time, it’s not okay to try and make it sound like you’re the one getting hurt every time. Drama is always going to impact more than one person, and I can say with certainty that people aren’t acting out of malice when it comes to you. We still have to respect your boundaries, but if so many things cause you to feel personally attacked, there’s only so much we can do.
[12:56 AM] i-4715☭: 4. Trying to change logs in order to make yourself look better. This is more of a one time thing, relating to you wanting to get rid of your ban log, but it’s still significant enough to me for me to say it. Changing history to remove evidence of you doing wrong is immoral no matter what. We’re all willing to accept that past is past.
[12:56 AM] i-4715☭: 5. Understanding of situations. This is one of the two biggest issues for me. Even in the best of circumstances during an argument, you feel really disconnected from the reality of the situation. Sorry to bring up the FoA again, but during that whole debacle you lacked understanding of the fundamental use of the sub-forum, and then went ahead and acted without any guidance or discussion with other staff members. Normally that would be bad, but it’s even worse considering that you’re an SR, who’s job is to communicate. And it isn’t just that one time, though I don’t really want to get into specifics because I’m writing this at 2 AM and I have school. Feel free to talk about this section more specifically after I wake up.
[12:56 AM] i-4715☭: 6. Change. This one’s the other biggest issue for me. I can say with certainty that you’ve improved from how you acted months ago. You’re a lot less aggressive in your arguments, which is fantastic, but I just don’t personally think that it’s been enough. Part of me really wants to say you’re trying when it comes to fixing these issues I’ve mentioned (because I have mentioned them before this instance), but the other part of me is struggling to believe that. Every time I see something come up I can guess with relative certainty how you’re going to act, and it’s never very positive. People bring up how you shouldnt oversimplify groups, you do that minutes after. People complain about you victimizing yourself, and you still do that. People say it’s wrong for you to try and assume how everyone’s life is going, and you still use that as an argument against them. And these have been issues for months. I’m not saying it’s impossible for you to change, but if this is how long it takes, I’d personally be more comfortable having you learn those lessons before you actually become staff.
[12:56 AM] i-4715☭: These aren’t things I want to hold against you forever, but I can’t in good conscious ignore them in the present.
[12:57 AM] i-4715☭: I'm off to bed now, talk to you in a few hours
[6:10 AM] i-4715☭: Alright, just finished reading back through my wall of text I wrote last night. It's a lot more wall-of-texty than I originally intended, but I still stand wholeheartedly by what I said (with a few minor corrections like meaning to type 1 AM instead of 2 AM).
[7:05 AM] Shroom: If you want some sort of rebuttal now, I can give you one
[7:06 AM] i-4715☭: you don't need to if you don't want to, I just thought you deserved to know why I've been uncomfortable with your position as staff
[7:08 AM] Shroom: Isn't it more because of your general disliking of my person? And btw, Doram actually isn't uncomfortable with it at all
[7:08 AM] i-4715☭: no, as a person you're fine. And I stand by what I think regardless of Doram's opinion
[7:08 AM] i-4715☭: my opinion is mine and I said why
April 2, 2016
[5:50 AM] Shroom: 1. (okay, with the bottom lines you've probably meant that day when I was on and people talked about real badass communities, and also about 4chan, and all I did was saying that 4chan is the classic example of a dark community, and in the end all I've said was "I should stop talking about this before I get dragged into it too much")
But anyway, the belief of an Anti-Shroom group with its most prominent members being Raz, FF, OJ and brando did not simply grow from looking at the FoA, it has grown over plenty of discussions where it was always the same scheme that some of these 4 people dragged away from the subject and lashed me out destructively, thus I'm seeing how biased they are in the way they think, and even if their opinion is not "less valuable" because of that, it's at least a very predictable or even bigoted opinion. Fair enough, OJ and FF ARE able to do mature conversation if they're up for it, but often enough they also refuse to it.(edited)
[5:50 AM] Shroom: 2. Well, for this I'm responding something that always applies in general, just because you struggle with your real life, it doesn't give you (and everyone, myself included) a reason to be rude and grumpy; and whenever I "play psychologist", I rather try to screen a situation from both sides, which is only meant to be fair.
[5:50 AM] Shroom: 3/4. Well, yeah ...You obviously haven't taken into consideration that in all of the dramatic situations, I was always the one to come off second best, and the one who got punishments and public humiliations over and over. While at some points I clearly wasn't entirely innocent and at some points the necessity of victimization may be questionable, the reasons are definitely there. And when I've asked to change the ban log, I've made clear how much of an injustice-crying-to-heaven it was, and yet after some discussion I've stopped bothering on it.(edited)
[5:51 AM] Shroom: 5. The FoA stuff is really not a representant for my entire SRship given that I've fallen quite involuntarily into it, and you hopefully understand that there was harrassment indeed carried out by Raz, OJ and FF; and even then, at first I wanted to leave immediately, but before that I wanted to give it one last chance, trying to change the FoA etiquette for the better, for everyone's benefit. But meh, it didn't work, also due to unfortunate wording. I generally have the feeling that many of the "specifics" Bryce has in mind actually fall under his biased pro-Raz-worldview. And generally as a Site Rep I call it my highest priority to have the future of the site in mind, as you actually already know, and I communicate a lot with newer members as well (see further below).
[5:51 AM] Shroom: 6. Yeah, generally I keep having the feelings that the people complaining about "simplifying groups" simply refuse to acknowledge the true core behind it, and the people complaining about "victimization" also stick to thinking of all the situations behind it in the way of "you've had all the blame and we did nothing wrong, so what do you dare saying". But still, I don't see how this would discredit my role as staff in any way, or how this should really restrict my freedom of speech.
[11:06 PM] i-4715☭: First off I want to respond to you mentioning there being an “Anti-Shroom” group and me having a “Pro-Raz-worldview”. I’m not going to pretend that there isn’t a group of people that are against you being staff, but I want to make sure that you know to not let the label of them being an “Anti-Shroom” group define all their arguments. They aren’t actively trying to make your life miserable and they all have legitimate arguments for their opinion. Now for the whole me having a “pro-Raz-worldview” thing. Just because he and I have the same opinion on several topics, doesn’t mean I support him 100% in everything he says. It’s an important distinction to make that it’s not that he and I have similar ideas because we’re friends, it’s that we’re friends because we have similar ideas. Also, there’s really no pro-Raz/anti-Raz side to this argument, since this argument is about if you should be staff or not. Raz is just the highest level staff member who’s clearly against you.
[11:06 PM] i-4715☭: 1. It's probably really easy to call me out for be biased on this one since I'm also against you being staff at this point, but I don't think Raz, FF, Tommy, or Brando's opinions are you are destructive. If anything they're the opposite. I mean, yeah, they can probably express their opinions better in a few cases, but everyone can, including you. At this point they’re just fed up with always getting the same kind of response when they try to make a case against you. (I’m speaking for other people, so take that with a grain of salt, but I feel like I’ve talked with them enough about this issue to understand their stance). Also, you might say Raz, FF, Tommy, and Brando are all biased against you, but you also have your own clear personal biases. We all have biases based on past experiences, because that’s how people work, it’s just important that you know what they are. Regardless, the main issue about this point was talking about grouping people together so I should probably focus on that now. The main reason I bring this up is when you talked about Bowser being ‘dragged down into’ the FoA. You made pretty clear that you thought that because Bowser was going to become a member of the FoA, his attitude could potentially be impacted.

Also, 6:38 AM Shroom said: the FoA also forms the way you act outside of it, even if you don't notice

If that doesn’t show you that you’ve said joining a specific group alone has a negative impact on someone, I don’t know what will.
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: 2. I really do get that you’re trying to do this to be more understanding, but you’ve been told by multiple people that this isn’t alright, and you need to acknowledge that. There’s a huge difference between getting where someone is coming from, and trying to make arguments against someone based on assumptions about their psychology. There was that one time that you tried to convince Raz that he was “ sick with [his] inner self not willing to take the subject properly”, which sounds more like you’re trying to control his argument instead of understand it. Or the time more recently when you tried to describe how Bowser’s mentality would be negatively impacted by joining the FoA. These aren’t thing you can actually know from basic knowledge of a person’s life, and even if you’re doing this to try and be more understanding, the result is still arguments being based on assumptions.
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: 3/4. I get that you feel wronged, but at no point have I felt like your bans have been in any way unjust. Your official punishments have been a 3 day ban, a 3 week ban, and unofficially you said you’ve been publically humiliated. I haven’t seen you mention the 3 day ban being unfair, but you described the second one as an “injustice-crying-to-heaven”, so I’m going to focus on that. First, you weren’t the only person who was punished in that instance, warnings were given out to other people who deserved them. Yes, your punishment was harsher, but so were your actions. You were banned for aggressively attacking people and stirring up conflict, and there’s no denying that’s what happened. It’s hardly unjust to receive punishment for something that’s clearly against the rules. I think you’ve grown from that experience and are a lot less aggressive, and a lot of us are willing to move on. At this point, the fact that you’re lingering on this ban is the reason everyone else remembers it. That kind of leads into you feeling publically humiliated. It’s undeniable that every time you’ve been called out on the forums, you’ve had some hand in it. I was going to try and find some examples proving this, but honestly, there’s really not a lot of times you were publicly humiliated on the forums, at least in my eyes. I could talk about the FoA thing or your bans, which you did have a hand in, but I’ve already talked to you about them at one point or another. A lot of the times when you’ve taken an action that most of the staff wasn’t okay with, it was discussed with you over PM or staff chat, which is far from public eyes. As a whole, we’re pretty laid back people on the forums and are willing to live and let live when someone makes a minor mistake. To me, it feels like the only one remembering these cases are you.
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: 5. I’m going to call you out again for labeling FF and Tommy unlocking your thread and making a sarcastic comment as “harassment”. If that’s what you consider harassment, I sincerely hope you never experience actual harassment, because it’s far worse. A small  joke aimed at you isn’t comparable to be repeatedly abused by people with the intention of malice. In addition, the whole “New FoA Etiquette” thing wouldn't have worked out, even if it was worded better. It’s possible that people might’ve had less of a reaction if you had better wording, but the rules still went against the entire point of the sub-forum. As for specific examples of you taking action without understanding of the situation (also, this is the part where you call me out on having access to tons of staff chat logs):
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: - I’m going to get this out of the way first because it’s been done to death, you’ve admitted that you’ve made mistakes here, and I feel like both of us want to move on. The “New FoA Etiquette” topic may have had good intentions, but it displayed a complete and utter lack of understanding for what the use of the sub-forum was. I’m not going to hold you to misunderstanding the point of the FoA, but I will hold you to acting in a situation that you don’t understand without any discussion with other members first.
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: - I’m also going to bring up you playing psychologist again. The fact that you make arguments through making someone question their own psychology already shows a huge lack of understanding.
[11:07 PM] i-4715☭: - (Proof I’m not making stuff up http://pastebin.com/z3C98xBU) In preparation for the April Fools Day Event it felt like you completely missunderstood the humor behind the event and instead tried to hold people to past drama.
[11:08 PM] i-4715☭: - And this is probably the most personal one for me, overreacting to jokes. We’re just a forum for some flash games, let’s have some fun. I get why you want to forums to be taken seriously, but at some points you need to just let people enjoy themselves. Things like me changing my name to #4715, Bowser joining the FoA, and people posting “low effort” messages on Discord during times where the chat is mostly dead don’t hurt anybody in any way, and if people are having fun without making it at the expense of other people, why try to stop it.
[11:08 PM] i-4715☭: Also, you said “And generally as a Site Rep I call it my highest priority to have the future of the site in mind, as you actually already know, and I communicate a lot with newer members as well (see further below)”, but I didn’t see anything below relating to that.
[11:08 PM] i-4715☭: 6. I in no way believe, or have ever stated, that all of these issues and you not wanting to change should restrict your freedom of speech. However, if you think any of these issues in no way impact your effectiveness as a staff member, that alone is enough for me to be against you having a position of power. Everything I’ve mentioned deals with someone’s ability to properly address or act in a situation, which is vital for a staff member because that’s their job. You say people don’t acknowledge the core of the issue on you oversimplifying groups of people, but I honestly think you’re the one unable to actually understand the issue. In this conversation alone you group people into anti-Shroom/pro-Raz and instantly say their opinions are destructive because of that. You say the everyone complaining about you victimizing yourself is doing so because they think you have all the blame, but that’s also untrue. They’re complaining about you victimizing yourself because you’re trying to pin your own negative actions on someone else. Again, this conversation alone provides an example to this. Most of your rebuttals are blaming Raz/Brando/FF/Tommy. You said that you made a rash decision because Tommy and FF harassed you. You said that you wanted to remove the banlog because you were unjustly treated. You tried to discredit Raz’s, Brando’s, FF’s, and Tommy’s opinions simply saying that they’re bigoted and immature. These all show you trying to paint other people as bullies to make your claims. When a significant amount of influential forum members, including the majority of staff members address issues to you, you need to at least try to look at yourself in a different light in order to be an effective role model and staff member.
[11:08 PM] i-4715☭: I stand by what I said, even more strongly now, that you’re unfit to be a staff member in my eyes.
April 3, 2016
[6:37 AM] Shroom: And I say the exact same about MK and Raz, jsyk; and please tone down the talk about FoA and the bans, it was done and dusted for me until you've brought it back up here (EDIT: http://runouw.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=50621#p385525 - perfect example of how to NOT deal with a situation)(edited)
[9:10 AM] Shroom: and strictly spoken, you're also not authorized to read staff chat logs, and I also don't really feel like replying further since you could pass it(edited)
[9:24 AM] Shroom: Also BY made a lemod on the LL site without me pushing on it. Guess why.
[10:14 AM] i-4715☭: I only brought up the bans to explain why I thought they were justified, since you mentioned thinking they were unfair in response to me. I brought up the FoA because you continue to try and crowbar in how much you dislike it at every opportunity. I do think MK's response was disproportionately rude, but right here and right now, I'm talking about you.

k

I'm not questioning BY's judgement on a different forum that I'm not even a member of. It's his call to make, and I don't have any context for what's going on over there. Also, saying "Guess why" doesn't tell me anything. I'm not going to magically be able to assume what qualities BY sees in you to make you a worthy staff member on a completely different forum.
[10:17 AM] Shroom: have you actually read the logs about the day where I've brought it up? (and anyway, it was legit to bring it up)
[10:17 AM] i-4715☭: brought what up
[10:18 AM] Shroom: le ban
[10:18 AM] Shroom: and my essay about why it was unjust
[10:18 AM] i-4715☭: I think I got snippets of it second hand from conversation, but not the specfic logs
[10:19 AM] Shroom: anyway, point of it that it was not me who made the first destructive comment and it was not me who produced the drama, as it happened so often(edited)
[10:21 AM] i-4715☭: I want you to send me SPECIFICALLY what words you considered desctructive
[10:21 AM] Shroom: I don't wanna go so far into detail again
[10:21 AM] Shroom: but still, read the thread and you will know
[10:22 AM] i-4715☭: no, I'm not going to guess what you found offensive
[10:24 AM] i-4715☭: If you actually want me to understand your situation, it doesn't help to just say you don't want to talk about a past experience, even though you already brought it up to support your argument
[10:44 AM] i-4715☭: you already called me out on having logs I shouldn't, but whatever http://pastebin.com/WkVjy2t8
Pastebin
I'd say just promote Shroom already If he's bugging you a lot a...

[10:46 AM] Shroom: Odd. He's said to me that I have his trust on doing level approvals and handing out warnings as well.
[10:47 AM] i-4715☭: he can still trust you despite having his doubts, but I just wanted to make sure you know that he DOES have his doubts
[10:48 AM] i-4715☭: also, I was going to just let this slide, but a lot of your a arguments are about either someone else holding you back or someone else supporting you
[10:49 AM] i-4715☭: I still feel it reflects negatively on you to blame actions on other people and I don't care if other people support you as staff because my opinion is mine
[10:49 AM] i-4715☭: not theirs