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a guest Nov 9th, 2015 2,786 Never
  1. [1/25/2015 6:15:43 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Are you free for a quick moment?
  2. [1/25/2015 6:15:49 PM] John Kelly: yes
  3. [1/30/2015 1:19:40 AM] John Kelly: new hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g5dd74ctfzhhrar5qu5mff3jyaa?hl=en
  4. [2/9/2015 10:21:32 PM] John Kelly: hey Nick - got a second?
  5. [2/9/2015 10:21:42 PM] Nicholas Goroff: whats up?
  6. [2/9/2015 10:21:52 PM] John Kelly: need to discuss it in a call
  7. [2/9/2015 10:22:07 PM] Nicholas Goroff: give me a bit. I'll call you when I'm done with the one I'm on.
  8. [2/9/2015 10:22:13 PM] John Kelly: okay
  9. [2/9/2015 11:27:27 PM] John Kelly: ?
  10. [2/9/2015 11:27:54 PM] *** Call to John Kelly ***
  11. [2/10/2015 12:06:18 AM] *** Call ended, duration 38:12 ***
  12. [2/22/2015 4:41:37 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Be sure to congratulate Sargon on the birth of his son. He has a cute frikken kid on his hands.
  13. [2/22/2015 6:28:06 PM] John Kelly: he had a son? didn't know that
  14. [2/22/2015 6:43:13 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Yep.
  15. [2/22/2015 6:49:00 PM] John Kelly: awesome
  16. [4/8/2015 7:00:35 PM] John Kelly: hey Nick - I have a few counter-points to what Beardmo is saying. mind if I join?
  17. [4/8/2015 7:01:36 PM] Nicholas Goroff: go ahead
  18. [4/8/2015 7:01:42 PM] John Kelly: okay, one sec
  19. [9/4/2015 11:45:49 PM] *** (cake)
  20.  
  21. It's John Kelly's birthday today.
  22. Give the gift of birthday calls to mobiles and landlines with a Skype Gift Card. ***
  23. [10/4/2015 2:31:16 PM] John Kelly: >lolcow in the making
  24. >check DMs fam
  25.  
  26. Interesting turn of events.
  27. [10/7/2015 8:13:18 PM] Nicholas Goroff: You're getting into drama and bullshit all over the place while you try to assert what you think GG is or should be, so if someone makes a lolcow out of you, I won't be surprised. That's what that means. I'm not a channer, so if someone there decides you've gone to the lengths of Gething or Endo with your drama and one shows up, it'll just be one of those times in which I say "called it" and that's that.
  28. The DM was about a series of articles I'm working on for one of my publishers examining the SJW question in respect to the broader ideological realities that are developing between left, right and center. Nothing to do with you.
  29. Hope that clarifies things.
  30. [10/7/2015 8:43:14 PM] John Kelly: It clarifies a bit. It was a really bad example to be frank.
  31. [10/7/2015 8:44:47 PM] John Kelly: I only define GamerGate as an event. what it's goals are up to the individual
  32. [10/7/2015 8:51:05 PM] Nicholas Goroff: It was, but you seemed bothered and I thought it would be polite to clarify.
  33. [10/7/2015 8:53:16 PM] John Kelly: I appreciate that.
  34. [10/7/2015 11:01:02 PM] John Kelly: also saw your comments under the video
  35.  
  36. the example I gave was tin-foily
  37. [10/7/2015 11:01:06 PM] John Kelly: but there are networks
  38. [10/7/2015 11:01:10 PM] John Kelly: and they do fuck people over
  39. [10/7/2015 11:01:37 PM] John Kelly: trouble is they are extremely hard to prove
  40. [10/7/2015 11:01:58 PM] John Kelly: though in Sargon's case
  41. [10/7/2015 11:02:01 PM] *** John Kelly grins ***
  42. [10/7/2015 11:04:47 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Do they have secret handshakes, John?
  43. [10/7/2015 11:05:01 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Do they get discounts at pizza hut?
  44. [10/7/2015 11:05:28 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Seriously man, bow out or something. You will only embarrass yourself if you keep barking up this tree. Because there is no tree.
  45. [10/7/2015 11:05:29 PM] John Kelly: thing is, Nick, people who play the conspiracy-theorist game suck at this
  46. [10/7/2015 11:06:05 PM] John Kelly: if people are all talking to eachother in Skype groups, DM groups, facebook groups, email lists, etc. it does indeed lead to collusion
  47. [10/7/2015 11:06:05 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Yes, you're making that very evident.
  48. [10/7/2015 11:06:22 PM] Nicholas Goroff: We were in "Skype" groups. And it lead to...fuck all.
  49. [10/7/2015 11:07:29 PM] John Kelly: not really. people have told me they enjoy talking shit behind my back without coming to me direct
  50. [10/7/2015 11:07:52 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Isn't that talking shit to your face after the fact?
  51. [10/7/2015 11:08:14 PM | Edited 11:08:23 PM] John Kelly: it's more or less the loose lips
  52. [10/7/2015 11:10:33 PM] Nicholas Goroff: I'll tell you to your face again then dude, you're a fucking riot. Conspiracy theories, sperging on streams, accusing people of being SJWs and having plots. Come on now. The reason CTers suck is because they assume a level of coordination and intrigue that ordinary people are just not capable of. Also, none of this gamer or consumer advocacy shit is worth a thing in comparison to real ideological warfare, which you seem to understand at a woefully pedestrian level.
  53. [10/7/2015 11:11:43 PM] John Kelly: there is a problem with your narrative given how many of your ilk endorse Trump, Alex Jones, Milo, and other clowns
  54. [10/7/2015 11:13:11 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Clowns like my publishers at Occupy.com, clowns like Gary Edwards, clowns like Mike of the Yes Men.
  55. Thing is John, when someone like me, with experience and education in politics finds common ground between left and right and someone like you gets cornered by people from left and right, it says something rather telling about the standings of our respective positions.
  56. [10/7/2015 11:13:44 PM] John Kelly: well it seems you have picked up on numerous thought terminating clichés to achieve an end
  57. [10/7/2015 11:13:54 PM] John Kelly: doesn't really say anything about yourself at all
  58. [10/7/2015 11:15:31 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Remember, I'm a liberal. I've got my fucking service pins. And when a liberal like myself and conservatives like "clowns" such as Milo who despite their failure to adopt your clearly legit train of thought still manage to come to consensus on a topic such as free speech or what the fringe identity politics movement means, maybe its time you reevaluate your own absolute certainty, even if just a little bit.
  59. [10/7/2015 11:17:19 PM | Edited 11:17:40 PM] John Kelly: think your evaluation of me, if I were to judge myself poorly, lately I have become less and less absolutist
  60. [10/7/2015 11:18:12 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Yet you insist that failure to see things your way constitutes thought termination.
  61. [10/7/2015 11:18:39 PM] John Kelly: negative. "conspiracy theorist", "sperg", etc. are TTC's
  62. [10/7/2015 11:21:24 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Shall I refine the terms a bit then? How about instead of CT, I'll say "one who believes in unfounded and overly contrived narratives of collusion to suppress themselves and their viewpoints in spite of no evidence existing to support such, other than the fact that when such arguments as are supposedly suppressed see the light of day, they are shot down in the open market of ideas," and instead of sperg, I'll say "someone who loses their shit, going off endlessly about trivial or contrived bullshit because they are upset that exterior factors failed to fit their desired narrative outcome."
  63. [10/7/2015 11:22:40 PM] John Kelly: are you familiar with The QuQu Incident?
  64. [10/7/2015 11:23:04 PM] Nicholas Goroff: No, please enlighten me.
  65. [10/7/2015 11:23:54 PM] John Kelly: It involved GameDiviner (spelling might be off) having gone around whispering in people's ears to get them to "end gamergate"
  66. [10/7/2015 11:24:26 PM] John Kelly: facts are not entirely clear, but he had contacted a lot of popular people in his networking
  67. [10/7/2015 11:25:22 PM] John Kelly: QuQu would be the one who made a counter-proposal in devil's advocate which got others talking even more
  68. [10/7/2015 11:25:24 PM] John Kelly: Ralph and Netscape9 blew the whistle on that one
  69. [10/7/2015 11:25:56 PM] John Kelly: Sargon got away by the skin of his teeth. though Netscape9 tipped him off just in time
  70. [10/7/2015 11:26:54 PM] John Kelly: this isn't conspiracies. it is common sense. everyone networks, everyone talks behind the scenes, and everyone forms cliques. law of probability would indicate their would be actors being untoward
  71. [10/7/2015 11:27:33 PM] John Kelly: it becomes difficult proving them because you require first-hand information which is often confidential
  72. [10/7/2015 11:28:21 PM] John Kelly: to a degree, you are correct. I have jumped the gun a couple of times. in your case I needed something more substantive then requesting a DM
  73. [10/7/2015 11:28:52 PM] John Kelly: networking isn't inherently bad. it is what people do with it that makes it right or wrong
  74. [10/7/2015 11:29:07 PM] Nicholas Goroff: You're losing your shit John Kelly.
  75. [10/7/2015 11:29:28 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Also the delay there was because I needed to prep some wings I forgot I left under a heatlamp to defrost.
  76. [10/7/2015 11:30:36 PM] Nicholas Goroff: But what you have is a batch of he said she said irrelevant bullshit about an organic movement of people who make decisions by general consensus and who as a movement are starting to settle into a pattern of quiet establishment, as all movements that aren't utterly destroyed are known to do.
  77. [10/7/2015 11:31:59 PM] Nicholas Goroff: You, as far as I can tell, are part of a small faction that has a specific goal and desire set that gets upset whenever that fails to be acted on and have implemented terms such as thought killing process or whatever the fuck that was, that are invoke to my mind, thoughts of cultish behavior like scientology.
  78. [10/7/2015 11:32:42 PM] Nicholas Goroff: In this game, you make an argument in public. You make it the best that you can. If it is accepted on its merits, it succeeds. If it fails, its because it either A: wasn't argued effectively, or B: sucked.
  79. [10/7/2015 11:33:17 PM] John Kelly: in a world wherein people are perfectly logical and rational you are correct
  80. [10/7/2015 11:33:51 PM] Nicholas Goroff: No, in a world where you and your lot have all the attention you need to make your case yet it still fails, I am also correct. That is, btw, this world.
  81. [10/7/2015 11:35:07 PM] John Kelly: then why refrence Scientology earlier when before that you said IDpol = bad?
  82. [10/7/2015 11:36:03 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Because you invoke the use of terms such as "thought kill." If you can't come up with a thought that can effectively counter an argument, your thought has not been killed, but rather it died from exposure.
  83. [10/7/2015 11:36:18 PM] John Kelly: thought terminating cliché isn't anything new
  84. [10/7/2015 11:36:42 PM] John Kelly: it isn't literally the death of thought but a means of taking an idea and dismissing it without proper assessment
  85. [10/7/2015 11:38:49 PM] Nicholas Goroff: New or old, your use of it is still akin to Scientologist rhetoric, or really any other cultish rhetoric I can think of, short of asinine charges of heresy, which at this point is largely reserved for SJWs. But the path your walking with this line of conspiratorial intrigue and dismissive buzz words, you're getting closer and closer. I'd recommend some self evalution John. Have you own opinions and ideas about where things should head. By all means. But don't start thinking that their failure to become a cultural zeitgeist is due to some plot against you by forces you can only barely perceive and whom it is your duty to expose to the world.
  86. [10/7/2015 11:39:58 PM] John Kelly: I'll take that under advisement
  87. [10/7/2015 11:40:22 PM] John Kelly: I don't agree with your assessment, though, for I have made it a point to listen to anyone will to talk to me
  88. [10/7/2015 11:42:10 PM] John Kelly: I think by proxy people have labeled me as "autistic" because I even engage in the most asinine of discourse
  89. [10/7/2015 11:42:26 PM] Nicholas Goroff: That's just shitposter talk. Read through it.
  90. [10/7/2015 11:42:44 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Its a euphemism for retard, which is as you know being of our generation, a euphemistic insult for idiot.
  91. [10/7/2015 11:43:14 PM] John Kelly: not really. people don't have a counter-argument so they go ad-hom and pretend it isn't ad-hom
  92. [10/7/2015 11:43:36 PM] Nicholas Goroff: You're dealing with internet people.
  93. [10/7/2015 11:43:39 PM] John Kelly: true
  94. [10/7/2015 11:43:55 PM] Nicholas Goroff: I just gave you an argument. Sargon did too, though his was of a lighter touch.
  95. [10/7/2015 11:44:09 PM] John Kelly: I wasn't as hard on Sargon as I should have been
  96. [10/7/2015 11:44:21 PM] Nicholas Goroff: He wasn't as hard on you as I'd have been.
  97. [10/7/2015 11:44:22 PM] John Kelly: (ironically enough Satan argued I was too soft on him)
  98. [10/7/2015 11:44:37 PM] John Kelly: I was surprised by his tactics
  99. [10/7/2015 11:44:47 PM] John Kelly: last time me and Sargon duked it out Sargon lost his shit
  100. [10/7/2015 11:45:17 PM] John Kelly: I will give him this. he has won back some of my respect
  101. [10/7/2015 11:46:38 PM] Nicholas Goroff: John, I don't even know half of what the GG/GGRevolt bullshit and drama has been, but in an open debate I'd chew you up and not waste a word. Sargon is not a debater. He never pretended to be and his anger with you was largely over your intentional misrepresentations of statements and points.
  102. [10/7/2015 11:47:22 PM] John Kelly: I wasn't giving intentionally misrepresented points, though
  103. [10/7/2015 11:47:47 PM] John Kelly: Sargon had to concede faults in Cultural Liberterianism, as an example
  104. [10/7/2015 11:48:37 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Because a proposed ideological moniker in what is an altogether fluid and borderless range of human political and sociological thought is a difficult thing to adequately defend when its only a few weeks old.
  105. [10/7/2015 11:50:26 PM] John Kelly: can agree. my criticisms challenge the idea as-is as opposed to as-it-might-become. open forum and all that
  106. [10/7/2015 11:51:22 PM] Nicholas Goroff: As it is is a general notion of one being socially geared towards opposing state or other powers regulating thought and speech.
  107. [10/7/2015 11:51:43 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Had it been me in that stream, you'd have been steamrolled about the meaning and I've only skimmed Allum's article but know what he means through and through.
  108. [10/7/2015 11:53:01 PM] John Kelly: your welcome to come and rip me apart any time. I welcome the challenge. Not going to lie, it would be an uphill battle for me
  109. [10/7/2015 11:55:46 PM] Nicholas Goroff: The Fox guy is pissed with your behavior, so he can't moderate. I have a series of interviews to hold over the next couple weeks for my articles on Occupy but I'm down.
  110. [10/7/2015 11:56:32 PM] Nicholas Goroff: Do you know Brandon Morse?
  111. [10/7/2015 11:56:47 PM] John Kelly: we follow eachother actually. he's pretty cool
  112. [10/7/2015 11:57:21 PM] Nicholas Goroff: I agree. I'll speak with him tomorrow and see if he'd moderate. I'll host as I have more followers and they've been bitching at me for content.
  113. [10/7/2015 11:58:24 PM] John Kelly: sounds like a plan
  114. [10/7/2015 11:58:39 PM] Nicholas Goroff: I'll get back to you with details.
  115. [10/7/2015 11:58:53 PM] John Kelly: I'll keep an eye out
  116. [10/8/2015 11:22:26 PM] John Kelly: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/sSPRzi9D_lW370zVqAVw0x4FtzSLAcqsaHbZobBpQQ4=?hl=en_US&authuser=0
  117. [10/9/2015 12:40:30 AM] Nicholas Goroff: Nigga, I literally have to work at 8 am. That was fun. I look forward to crushing you again later on. Brandon isn't interested, but I'll find us a moderator.
  118. [10/9/2015 12:40:44 AM] Nicholas Goroff: And be honest, that was a great mic drop.
  119. [10/9/2015 12:40:50 AM] John Kelly: alrighty
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