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'Janiteam tries to answer the classic gaming question

a guest Nov 5th, 2015 5 Never
  1. (11:27:31) %WalterWhite: That is loli and it belongs in /b/ Volphied370. Also, dreamcast threads are allowed in /vr/ per rules. I don't think you were here yesterday.
  2. [...]
  3. (11:48:33) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, the rules clearly ban sixth gen consoles
  4. [...]
  5. (11:48:50) +Volphied370: dreamcast is a sixth gen console, so it's not allowed
  6. (11:50:19) +Volphied370: if there's a change in the rules then it should be made so officialy.Otherwise threads about sixth gen console will continue to get reported
  7. (11:53:42) +Volphied370: It's ridiculous to allow dreamcast. Most of it's games were released AFTER 1999 and it's a sixth gen console. Thus it's breaking BOTH rules
  8. (11:54:03) +Volphied370: It's not retro no matter how you look at it
  9. [...]
  10. (11:58:08) %WalterWhite: It was released in Japan in 1998. America and the rest of the world in 1999. Consoles, computer games, arcade games and any other games on plaforms launched in 1999 or EARLIER.
  11. (11:58:23) %WalterWhite: Dreamcast discussion is allowed. Do not ban request / warn / delete for it.
  12. (11:58:36) +Volphied370: The rules ban sixth gen
  13. (11:58:40) +Volphied370: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dreamcast_games
  14. (11:58:47) +Volphied370: almost all these games are 2000-2001
  15. (11:58:57) +Volphied370: BOTH rules are broken
  16. [...]
  17. (12:00:42) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, why are you telling me that Dreamcast is not 6th gen?
  18. (12:00:59) +Volphied370: are you serious?
  19. (12:01:03) %WalterWhite: I am telling you not to delete, ban or warn for Dreamcast threads.
  20. (12:01:20) +McNuggets: oh ... uh ... walked into a mod fight ... never mind.
  21. (12:01:44) +Volphied370: I'm telling you that the rules say the exact opposite
  22. (12:01:58) %WalterWhite: They don't.
  23. (12:02:02) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, the rules ban sixth gen consoles such as Dreamcast
  24. (12:02:24) +Volphied370: they ban games after 1999, which is the majority of Dreamcast games
  25. (12:02:40) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, you're not making any sense
  26. (12:03:04) %WalterWhite: What don't you understand about not touching those threads?
  27. (12:03:28) +Volphied370: I'm just following the rules
  28. (12:03:42) +Volphied370: change them ffs
  29. [...]
  30. (12:03:53) +Volphied370: people are rightfully reporting Dreamcast threads
  31. (12:03:55) %WalterWhite: Then follow this ruling: Do not delete, ban request or warn for dreamcast threads in /vr/. Thank you.
  32. (12:04:06) +Volphied370: they see that rules ban sixth gen
  33. (12:04:13) +Volphied370: dreamcast is sixth gen
  34. (12:04:27) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, why are you ignoring what i'm telling you???
  35. (12:04:36) +Volphied370: you haven't adressed this
  36. (12:04:50) +McNuggets: What we discuss in here doesn't get known to the general public. The users see only the rules as they are written. Just, you know, FYI.
  37. (12:04:59) +Volphied370: ^^^^exactly
  38. (12:05:41) +McNuggets: "This board is for the discussion of classic, or "retro" games. Retro gaming means consoles, computer games, arcade games (including pinball) and any other games on platforms launched in 1999 or earlier. Sixth generation and later consoles are not considered retro.
  39. (12:05:41) +McNuggets: " That's what they see.
  40. (12:05:55) +McNuggets: Oops ... misclick
  41. (12:06:02) +McNuggets: https://www.4chan.org/rules#vr
  42. (12:06:23) +Volphied370: it's hilarious that WalterWhite is now telling me to break the board rules
  43. (12:07:09) +McNuggets: No need to fight. If the rules have been changed to allow Dreamcast, excellent! But us lowly Janis have to enforce the rules "as written". So ... rewrite the rules. ;)
  44. (12:11:58) +McNuggets: Had a very entertaining case yesterday. Actually went to jury. Some guy, stepfather, hit his stepkid with a piece of mail. A "paper slap", as they called it. Went to full jury trial as a child abuse case. Jury ruled it an accident, but that poor schmuck's life is toast. Really neat case, though. Today is my day off. Can we not fight?
  45. [...]
  46. (12:13:07) +Volphied370: i'm just frustrated that people in /vr/ don't know about this apparent rule change
  47. (12:13:39) +Volphied370: and will rigthfully keep reporting dreamcast threads for breaking both rules
  48. (12:13:55) +McNuggets: I don't blame you for that. The rules are the rules and from what I'm reading in the actual codified rules, Dreamcast is persona non grata.
  49. (12:14:27) +Volphied370: ffs, Sonic adventure 2 came out in 2001 on the DC, which is 6th gen
  50. [...]
  51. (12:14:44) +Volphied370: this is totaly breaking board rules
  52. (12:15:14) +McNuggets: I do understand Walter's viewpoint, though, in that things have been changed. That's fine too ... but change requires codification. And god dammit I'm taking off my lawyer hat today. >_<
  53. (12:15:53) +Volphied370: still, if we're allowing DC, we should allow Gamecube too
  54. (12:16:40) +Volphied370: and the PS2
  55. (12:16:45) +SerWind: Oh boy, /vr/. People are going to treat it like a gentleman's club for video games. When everyone can discuss everything everyone is going to flood it and it's going to be /v/ 1.5
  56. (12:18:13) +Volphied370: not only is DC breaking board rules, allowing it will just give a reason for people to post GC and PS2 too. If SA2 on the DC is retro, then so is SA2B on the GC
  57. (12:18:17) +McNuggets: I think maybe a ruling from moots would be in order. It's his board. Though if DC is allowed, then rock on. If not, rock on. I loves me some vidya, but I'm a total casual and have no opinion on this matter at all.
  58. (12:18:32) LingeringParticles: You don't have to enforce the rules as written. You have some latitude to get ahead of the rule change. No one is getting hurt by not deleting or br'ing dc threads. On the contrary, br'ing for them causes more strife than letting them alone. Are the rules ambiguos and unclear? Yes. Do they need to be changed? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean you can't get ahead of it by taking a hands off aproach to the offen
  59. (12:18:32) LingeringParticles: ding threads, which I suggest you do.
  60. (12:18:33) +McNuggets: But I understand rules, law ... and written vs implied.
  61. (12:18:50) +Volphied370: moot wrote in the rules that 6th gen is not allowed
  62. (12:19:35) +McNuggets: I am informed that maybe a conversation on this channel was had concerning DC? Am I misinformed?
  63. (12:21:36) +McNuggets: Eh ... I'll just go back to my terrible 90s movie.
  64. (12:21:40) +SerWind: Lol
  65. (12:21:42) +Volphied370: > On the contrary, br'ing for them causes more strife than letting them alone.
  66. (12:21:49) +SerWind: Exclusivity is what makes /vr/ good <.<
  67. (12:21:55) +Volphied370: actually, it's the exact opposite
  68. (12:22:09) +Volphied370: people complain in DC threads about it being against the rules
  69. (12:22:16) +Volphied370: and they're right!
  70. (12:22:44) +Volphied370: allowing more modern consoles and games will only push older, trully retro games away
  71. (12:23:05) +Volphied370: but if that's what moot want, I won't complain
  72. (12:23:30) +Volphied370: BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO MAKE THE RULES TO REFLECT THIS CHANGE
  73. (12:23:50) LingeringParticles: I don't think the slippery slope argument applies here. The argument is about dc only--in or out. Not ps2 or gc.
  74. (12:23:51) +Volphied370: otherwise we'll get swamped with reports
  75. (12:23:59) LingeringParticles: I agree the rules need to be clarified
  76. (12:24:07) +Volphied370: but we already chenged the rules once by allowing 5th gen
  77. (12:24:26) +Volphied370: now there's talk about allowing a sixth gen console
  78. (12:24:35) LingeringParticles: I think ban requesting someone is inherently more problematic than people complaining.
  79. (12:24:41) +Volphied370: we ARE slipping down this slope
  80. [...]
  81. (12:25:39) LingeringParticles: DC is a unique case. It's not quite in league with the gc, xbox, or ps2. An exception can reasonably be made for it.
  82. (12:25:54) +McNuggets: HA! Forgot Seth Green was in this thing.
  83. (12:25:58) +Volphied370: most of its games were released 2000-2001
  84. (12:26:16) +Volphied370: SA2 is 2001. Is this suddenly retro?
  85. (12:26:31) +Volphied370: and what about the gamecube version?
  86. (12:26:39) +Volphied370: is it retro too?
  87. (12:29:36) +Volphied370: LingeringParticles, SA1 was released in 1998, but SA1DX is 2003
  88. (12:30:02) +McNuggets: Well, we've all been told that our personal opinion shouldn't matter ... but ...
  89. (12:30:03) +Volphied370: does this mean that I'm supposed to keep only the former, despite them being nearly identical games?
  90. (12:30:51) +Volphied370: this is what happens when we allow only one 6th gen console
  91. (12:31:15) +Volphied370: but hey, no problem. The rules clearly state that 6th gen is banned
  92. (12:31:16) +McNuggets: I personally slap the shit out of Pedos on /lgbt/ even though the written rules don't say anything anywhere ... so ... use your best judgement.
  93. (12:31:56) +McNuggets: But with /vr/ and allowing only one 6th gen console? That's tough.
  94. (12:32:35) +Volphied370: it's retarded. You either allow them all or ban them all
  95. (12:32:44) +Volphied370: ./vr/ will be confused as hell
  96. (12:32:49) LingeringParticles: The wording is "on platforms launched in 1999 and earlier." By that logic dc threads should be permitted. I think we're all agreeing, though, that the wording needs to be clarified. So, the question really isn't "what do the rules say", but "what should the rules say".
  97. (12:33:04) +McNuggets: Well, I'm not gonna throw around words like "retarded" ... but I can see tha it might be a difficult issue.
  98. (12:33:10) +Volphied370: LingeringParticles, most of DC games were released 2000-2001
  99. (12:33:26) +Volphied370: i've said this so many times...
  100. (12:33:51) +McNuggets: Of course "retro" is suspect in many ways ... I woke up this morning and yesterday was retro. XD
  101. (12:34:29) +Volphied370: LingeringParticles, tell me what would you do if you saw two threads. One about SA1, another about SA1DX
  102. (12:34:42) +Volphied370: which would you delete due to breaking rules?
  103. (12:35:11) LingeringParticles: Try not to get so hung up on the classification of generation.
  104. (12:35:22) +Volphied370: tell that to /vr/
  105. (12:35:43) +Volphied370: people will report and shitpost about this
  106. (12:36:19) +Volphied370: making a mess out of the rules by givin an exception to one 6th gen console while banning the others
  107. (12:37:07) LingeringParticles: Depends on context. Janiting can require more than simple following of rules. If someone posted a thread expressly about a gc game, I would delete it. If the posted a thread comparing a gc game with a dc game I'd let it alone. If a thread started out about a dc game and then took a turn towards talking about a gc game, I'd let it alone.
  108. (12:37:54) +Volphied370: but you have to realise that there are tons of games that are identical, with the only difference being that they were released on different consoles
  109. (12:38:34) +Volphied370: there will be huge confusions over not just the sonic adventure games,, but about all the other multiplatform games
  110. (12:39:14) +McNuggets: It's a delicate balance, using judgement and following "the rules".
  111. (12:39:37) +McNuggets: Are there other /vr/ Janis? Have you talked to them/
  112. (12:39:53) +Volphied370: Crazy Taxi was released on the PS2, GC and Dreamcast
  113. (12:40:04) +Volphied370: it's identical on all of those consoles
  114. (12:40:14) +McNuggets: Heh ... Crazy Taxi ... holy cow ... that game
  115. (12:40:18) +Volphied370: yet we're only allowed to talk about the DC one?
  116. (12:40:30) +Volphied370: This makes absolutely no sense
  117. (12:40:52) +Volphied370: allowing just one 6th gen console makes no sense
  118. (12:41:25) +Volphied370: McNuggets, I'm not the only one /vr/ janitor
  119. (12:41:32) LingeringParticles: Let them talk about crazy taxi.
  120. (12:41:38) +Volphied370: Kazisho is another one, and I think that there are more too
  121. (12:41:53) +Volphied370: LingeringParticles, so it's okay to talk about PS2 and GC games now?
  122. (12:42:16) +Volphied370: Because people will point out that it's the same game on all of those consoles
  123. (12:42:34) +McNuggets: Well, sometimes I have to take feedback from other Janis. I watch 4 boards. I also sleep, shower, and sometimes have to do my job and argue for my client in court.
  124. (12:42:54) +Volphied370: McNuggets, I haven't talked with them yet
  125. (12:43:09) +McNuggets: 4chan is a hobby. A hobby I love ... and I'm gonna fuck it up from time to time. Talk to your other Janis.
  126. (12:43:23) +Volphied370: WalterWhite, was the first one to tell me this change in rules, and he seems to have gone AFK
  127. (12:43:33) +SerWind: Is there an /a/ janitor about/
  128. (12:43:35) +SerWind: ?*
  129. (12:43:51) +McNuggets: However, I do agree that the enumerated rules need absolute clarification.
  130. [...]
  131. (13:00:35) LingeringParticles: Depends on context like a said earlier. And like McNuggets said, remember that people come to post for fun.
  132. (13:03:22) +Volphied370: LingeringParticles, tell me why we should ban PS2 and GC.
  133. (13:03:24) +Volphied370: ?
  134. (13:04:41) LingeringParticles: Because a line needs to be drawn somewhere, I just don't agree it should be in a place that excludes the DreamCast.
  135. (13:05:30) +Volphied370: but your line is going straight through 6th gen
  136. (13:06:11) +Volphied370: excluding one games while allowing another, even thought they are all the same
  137. (13:06:52) +Volphied370: do you really think it makes sense to ban SA1DX talk?
  138. (13:07:17) +Volphied370: while allowing SA1?
  139. (13:14:56) LingeringParticles: If it turns out that DC and DC games are going to be allowed on /vr/, it'll be up to you guys how to regulate that sort of thing. Just because a dc game is similar to a gc game isn't a reason in and of itself to exclude the DC altogether.
  140. (13:15:32) +Volphied370: you completely missed the point
  141. (13:15:54) +Volphied370: you're the one excluding GC
  142. (13:16:05) +Volphied370: and making an arbitrary ''line''
  143. (13:16:15) +Volphied370: straight trought 6th gen
  144. (13:16:31) +Volphied370: allowing the same game on DC but not on the PS2 and GC
  145. (13:18:16) +Volphied370: if you really want DC in /vr/ so much, you WILL have to allow GC and PS2 too
  146. (13:20:07) +Volphied370: otherwise /vr/ WILL be bitching in /q/ about how mods are giving preferential treatment to just one 6th gen console
  147. (13:20:27) +Volphied370: while leaving the others out despite sharing many games
  148. (13:24:35) +andonuts: Volphied370: Alternative said to allow Dreamcast threads on /vr/ like a week ago, only because of the 1999 and older portion of the rules.
  149. (13:27:07) +andonuts: (00:21:00) @ALTERNATIVE: I think we can make an exception for dreamcast threads in /vr/
  150. (13:27:07) +andonuts: (00:21:06) @ALTERNATIVE: even though it was part of the named sixth generation
  151. (13:27:07) +andonuts: (00:21:12) @ALTERNATIVE: it came out in 1998/99
  152. (13:27:07) +andonuts: (00:21:33) @ALTERNATIVE: if the board doesnt rail against them, they should stay
  153. (13:27:58) +Volphied370: well, they DO rail against them after reading the rules
  154. (13:28:20) +andonuts: Most people are fine with allowing Dreamcast threads on /vr/.
  155. (13:28:51) +Volphied370: define ''most''
  156. (13:29:55) +Volphied370: I've seen plenty of reports and arguing
  157. (13:31:01) +Volphied370: people even assume that the part about ''sixth gen not allowed'' is directly referencing dreamcast
  158. (13:31:05) +andonuts: And I've seen plenty of Dreamcast threads that were completely polite, after the first few Dreamcast spam incidents.
  159. (13:31:21) +Volphied370: due to both PS2 and GC being released after 1999
  160. [...]
  161. (13:32:46) +Volphied370: PS2, GC and XBOX were released after 1999, DC was 1998. So the ''no 6th gen rule'' was made to exlude DC
  162. (13:33:50) +Volphied370: that's how almost everyone in /vr/ understands the rules
  163. (13:35:15) +andonuts: A lot of people may see it that way, but we were told to not remove Dreamcast threads by a few people. They consider it an anamoly of sorts.
  164. (13:36:45) +Volphied370: ALTERNATIVE, should have updated the rules when he allowed Dreamcast
  165. [...]
  166. (13:37:40) +Volphied370: because there's no point in the ''no sixth gen'' rule when the remaining 6th gen consoles were released after 1999
  167. (13:39:36) +andonuts: I'm pretty sure that the 1999 in the rules was more referring to PC games and arcade games.
  168. (13:39:54) +andonuts: The ruleset is poorly worded.
  169. (13:40:35) +Volphied370: the ruleset made perfect sense before we allowed Dreamcast
  170. (13:41:04) %Katsurugi: gotta talk about parappa the rappa and jet set radio
  171. (13:41:15) %Katsurugi: I only own fighting games though .__.
  172. (13:41:26) +Volphied370: Katsurugi, what do you think?
  173. [...]
  174. (13:42:02) +Volphied370: Kazisho, good to see you
  175. (13:42:02) %Katsurugi: I'm okay with dreamcast as it was really an anomaly
  176. (13:42:23) +Volphied370: what do you think about dreamcast in /vr/?
  177. (13:42:44) %Katsurugi: and the hardware is probably more related to arcade cabinets than traditional consoles
  178. (13:43:06) +Volphied370: Katsurugi, most of dreamcast games were released 2000-2001, and there are many that were multiplatform on GC, PS2, XBOX
  179. (13:43:17) +Kazisho: I would be okay with allowing them but seeing as they're 6th Gen, technically...
  180. (13:43:29) +Volphied370: what am I supposed to do when someone posts SA1DX
  181. (13:43:41) +Volphied370: it's the same game as SA1
  182. (13:43:56) +Volphied370: just one was on GC and another on DC
  183. (13:44:42) %Katsurugi: it was probably better on dreamcast to be honest
  184. (13:44:53) +Volphied370: there's no reason to ban GC, PS2 and XBOX of we allow DC
  185. [...]
  186. (13:46:06) +Kazisho: What did we decide and/or not decide yet?
  187. (13:46:18) %Katsurugi: I think just allowing DC is fine and only DC multiplatform games
  188. (13:46:27) %Katsurugi: PS2 library is just too huge
  189. (13:46:50) %Katsurugi: you want people to talk about idolmaster on /vr/?
  190. (13:47:05) +Volphied370: I don't want any 6th gen console in /vr/
  191. (13:47:43) +Volphied370: if people see a DC multiplatform, they'll wonder why they're allowed but other PS2, GC and XBOX games arent
  192. (13:47:59) +Volphied370: despite being the same age
  193. (13:48:35) %Katsurugi: just put in the rules and ban those that don't adhere to them if that happens
  194. (13:48:43) %Katsurugi: obviously people will not read the sticky or the rules
  195. (13:49:06) +andonuts: >idolmaster
  196. (13:49:15) +andonuts: >implying they're not just going to talk about Dark Souls instead
  197. (13:49:16) +andonuts: http://i.imgur.com/BzV9a1D.jpg
  198. (13:49:27) +Volphied370: people are already rightfully reporting DC due to 6th gen being banned
  199. (13:49:44) +Volphied370: they don't know about one mod allowing it someowhere in IRC
  200. (13:52:24) %Katsurugi: this is my opinion, I haven't acted on anything based on it as of yet
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