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- 20:20 < lkalif> nebadon: http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/about seems non functional
- 20:21 < lkalif> where can I find out more about how OSGrid is run?
- 20:22 < nebadon> 1 sec
- 20:22 < nebadon> we have a page on the grid menu
- 20:22 < nebadon> http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/regionconnect
- 20:23 < nebadon> where was the about link?
- 20:23 < nebadon> where did you get that from?
- 20:23 < lkalif> dropdown on the main page, grid -> about
- 20:23 < nebadon> oh ya on the menu
- 20:23 < nebadon> heh
- 20:23 < nebadon> guess i should remove that
- 20:23 < nebadon> its the 3rd option down on that menu
- 20:23 < nebadon> Connect a Region
- 20:23 < nebadon> sorry "Running a Simulator"
- 20:24 < lkalif> no i meant more about the organization, who is in charge, a company, a person?
- 20:24 < osmantis> Bug #6531: [PATCH] Allow setting the Phantom flag of a single prim in a linkset ( http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6531 ): A NOTE has been added to this issue.
- 20:24 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist has apparently been banning people left and right and introducing rules who can be on the grid
- 20:24 < Hiro_Protagonist> lkalif: that is absurd ;)
- 20:25 < lkalif> so child avatars are not banned?
- 20:25 < Hiro_Protagonist> only from the plazas
- 20:25 < Hiro_Protagonist> unless some complaint is made about abuse
- 20:25 < Hiro_Protagonist> http://pastebin.com/qhpPcCAZ
- 20:25 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist and you as soverign fearless leader get to make that decision?
- 20:25 < Hiro_Protagonist> there's the published position on several current matters
- 20:26 < Hiro_Protagonist> lkalif: dont go there
- 20:26 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist: why not?
- 20:26 < Hiro_Protagonist> because you have been subscribing to rumor instead of getting the facts
- 20:26 < lkalif> which is why I asked where can I learn more about OSGrid
- 20:27 < Hiro_Protagonist> if you are going to be confrontational with me over tripe you read on the web, I'll just go take a nap
- 20:27 < lkalif> who gets to make TOS, where they are published, etc.
- 20:27 < Hiro_Protagonist> I just gave you a link
- 20:27 < lkalif> pastebin?
- 20:27 < lkalif> lol
- 20:27 < Hiro_Protagonist> you would prefer something else?
- 20:27 < lkalif> you got to be kidding me, right?
- 20:27 < Hiro_Protagonist> do you have an inability to read whats on pastebin?
- 20:28 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: i beieve he is looking for soemthing that is officially santioned by an official governing body of osgrid
- 20:28 < lkalif> YES
- 20:28 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: some foundation, company, group
- 20:28 < Hiro_Protagonist> Melanie_T, as things stand right now, thats pretty much me. Doing what I can to improve that situation
- 20:29 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: and posted on an official site-thingy
- 20:29 < lkalif> so it is you and it's not a rumor
- 20:29 < Hiro_Protagonist> lkalif, perhaps you'd prefer that I pull my donations too, and we just go ahead and shut the thing down
- 20:29 < Hiro_Protagonist> no that is not a rumor
- 20:29 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: how has it come to be just you?
- 20:29 < WordfromtheWise> Hiro_Protagonist .. So i have a question why did you ejected that mid20 looking avatar on Sunday ?
- 20:29 < Hiro_Protagonist> ask Nebadon
- 20:29 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: no one cares enough?
- 20:29 < Hiro_Protagonist> Melanie_T, pretty much
- 20:29 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist: shutting the whole thing down would be preferable if you ask me
- 20:30 < lkalif> not having "dear leader" who like "it's so becausde i said so" attitude
- 20:30 < Hiro_Protagonist> Ok lkalif, on the strength of your concerns, I will deprive several thousand people of their hard work, and investment
- 20:30 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: i still don't see the harm in child avatars even on plazas. The issue isn't and never has been child avatars per se, it's sexual ageplay
- 20:30 < Hiro_Protagonist> dont be dim
- 20:30 < lkalif> Several of Singularity core devs have avatars that Hiro_Protagonist doesn't approve off
- 20:31 < Hiro_Protagonist> I dont even approve of singularity
- 20:31 < lkalif> and I like Singularity to be opensim compatible and the best viewr for it
- 20:31 -!- NickyP [~kvirc@24.89.44.106] has joined #opensim-dev
- 20:31 < lkalif> as OSGrid is the canonical place to test the newest opensim Hiro_Protagonist's actions seriously hinder the development
- 20:31 < Hiro_Protagonist> OSgrid barely runs stock opensim lkalif
- 20:32 < WordfromtheWise> you DONT APPROVE Singularity ? why , can i not use it on the osgrid anymore or am i lost in translation ( i know this is more for the #osgrid channel) ?
- 20:32 < Hiro_Protagonist> it uses pieces of robust
- 20:32 < lkalif> the less the viewers get tested on osgrid, the less feedback opensimulator project gets, the harm gets incrementaly larger
- 20:33 < Hiro_Protagonist> I havent banned any viewers
- 20:33 < Hiro_Protagonist> just because I dont like the viewer, it doesnt extrapolate that I prevent it from connecting
- 20:33 < nebadon> you can use Singularity on OSgrid
- 20:33 < Melanie_T> i'm not aware in what way a viewer can use iecesof robust - seing that robust is written in c#
- 20:33 < lkalif> nebadon: Hiro_Protagonist bannede some people just because he didn't like their avatars
- 20:34 < lkalif> as it happens, some of the core Singularity devs have those
- 20:34 < nebadon> only from the plazas
- 20:34 < Hiro_Protagonist> lkahlif, I dont care if they have them, but they better not use them on the plazas
- 20:34 * Melanie_T makes a parrot that squawks "Pieces of Robust, pieces of Robust" ;)
- 20:34 < Hiro_Protagonist> end of story
- 20:35 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist: "end of story", just what a "dear leader" would say
- 20:40 < lkalif> so i guess simulator/viewer/library development should be moved somewhere less hostile
- 20:41 < lkalif> where not one power-crazed person gets to decide all the rules
- 20:41 < Hiro_Protagonist> so you gonna tell us we cant run bsd code now?
- 20:41 < Hiro_Protagonist> these rules were decided long ago and rarely enforced
- 20:41 < Hiro_Protagonist> all I've done is begin enforcing them consistentyl
- 20:41 < Melanie_T> to be honest, they're news to me
- 20:41 < lkalif> sure you can use BSD code
- 20:41 < Hiro_Protagonist> and if you dont like osgrid, or how its run, dont go there
- 20:41 < Hiro_Protagonist> simple
- 20:41 < lkalif> I'll just encourage development to take place elsewhere
- 20:42 < lkalif> where sane people prevail
- 20:42 < Hiro_Protagonist> Melanie_T, since when do you have anything to do with running osgrid?
- 20:42 < Melanie_T> i don't
- 20:42 < Melanie_T> just saying that these rules weren't known to me
- 20:42 < lkalif> Melanie_T: when they're published on pastebin how could anyone now?
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> i wasn't aware that isg had any rules regarding child avatars
- 20:43 < lkalif> unless you show up on the townhall and get banned by Hiro_Protagonist
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> the rules against actual children are of course clear
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> i had assumed they'd be in place
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> it's the law
- 20:43 < lkalif> who thought himself the ruler of the grids
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> lkalif: i'm sure they're not only on pb
- 20:43 < Melanie_T> they are probably in town hall logs, etc
- 20:44 < Melanie_T> and possibly in notecards
- 20:44 < lkalif> Melanie_T: i tried to find them on the about page, anywhere on osgrid.org
- 20:44 < nebadon> these are not really grid wide rules
- 20:44 < nebadon> they are for the plazas like i said
- 20:45 < nebadon> the problem is most of the people we see wearing child avatars in the plazas are also in adult type groups and portray adult like things in their profile with thier avatars
- 20:45 < Plugh> If they are rules related to osgrid they should be published somewhere that can easily be found.
- 20:46 < Hiro_Protagonist> http://pastebin.com/qhpPcCAZ
- 20:46 < lkalif> lol
- 20:46 < Hiro_Protagonist> latest update to the rules
- 20:46 < Hiro_Protagonist> read it or not, not my problem
- 20:46 < lkalif> anybody can post any crap on pastebin
- 20:47 < Melanie_T> what we have here is a ....
- 20:47 < Melanie_T> .... tempest in a teacup
- 20:47 * Plugh thought Melanie_T was about to say "failure to communicate" ;-)
- 20:48 < Melanie_T> lkalif: they should probably be on the website. but i'm sure sone day some one will get a round tuit.
- 20:48 < Melanie_T> Hiro_Protagonist: if a child avatar has adult-y things in the profile, is naked or wearing inappropriate attire, engages in sexual ageplay etc. - no issue at all.
- 20:48 < Melanie_T> but if the child av is clean, why ban?
- 20:49 < lkalif> I just want to get one more thing straigt: so OSGrid does not have a formal organization, it's Hiro_Protagonist mood swings that determine the rules there?
- 20:49 < Hiro_Protagonist> because it provides cover for othersw, and confuses people into believing that anything they want to do with a child av is ok
- 20:49 < Melanie_T> lkalif: i know eneough about OSG to be able to tell you it is not so
- 20:49 < Hiro_Protagonist> we have a long history of this sort of problem, thanks to the people who came to osgrid from meta7
- 20:49 < Hiro_Protagonist> that trouble is the origin of these concerns and these rules
- 20:49 < Melanie_T> lkalif: there area number of people involved in the administration and running of osg
- 20:50 < lkalif> Melanie_T: this child avatar thing seems to be pure Hiro_Protagonist's bone up his rear
- 20:50 < Melanie_T> lkalif: "dirty" child avatars are an issue in many legislations and offend a lot of people
- 20:50 < lkalif> we are not talking about "dirty" avatars
- 20:51 < nebadon> I think we might actually have some rules posted at Lbsa Plaza
- 20:51 < nebadon> let me log in and look
- 20:51 < Melanie_T> lkalif: i just don't subscribe to "lump all child avatars into the ageplay corner"
- 20:51 < lkalif> we are talking about a child avatar properly dressed, properly behaiving, just wishing to attend the townhall
- 20:51 < Melanie_T> lkalif: i can't say anything about the case at hand - i wasn't there and would not allow myself to speculate
- 20:52 < Hiro_Protagonist> lkalif: that person was in lbsa plaza for no other reason than to push limits
- 20:52 < lkalif> Melanie_T: i did not hear any denial here
- 20:52 < Hiro_Protagonist> and everything in that persons blog concerning myself and OSgrid is an outright lie
- 20:52 < lkalif> they were banned just for being a child avatar
- 20:52 < Plugh> Hm... the link the the TOS on the osgrid webpage seems to be bad.
- 20:52 < Melanie_T> oh there is a blog now?
- 20:52 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist: i did not read any blog
- 20:52 < Melanie_T> all i had was a chat log copypasta
- 20:53 < WordfromtheWise> this was the avatar in question on Sunday .. http://imgur.com/kXnI6zj more a mid18 or such dressed appropriate ..
- 20:53 < Hiro_Protagonist> the avatar lkalif is complaining about being banned
- 20:53 < Hiro_Protagonist> has a blog
- 20:53 < lkalif> I have Singularity core devs asking for osgrid to be removed from our grid selector
- 20:53 < lkalif> and boycotting any dev work there
- 20:53 < lkalif> but I want Singularity to be the best opensim viewer
- 20:53 < nebadon> I think eveyrone just needs to take a step back and calm down
- 20:53 < Hiro_Protagonist> well if they cant abide by the rules, perhaps osgrid is not the best place for them to work
- 20:54 < Hiro_Protagonist> I dont know what else to tell you
- 20:54 < lkalif> Hiro_Protagonist: i completely agree for once
- 20:54 < nebadon> perhaps we can be more clear about the rules
- 20:54 < nebadon> no doubt
- 20:54 < Hiro_Protagonist> we've been working on that, but lkalif wont read them so I dont know what making them more clear would help
- 20:54 < lkalif> if some wannabe dictator wants to express his personal hangups as the official osgrid policy, it is indeed not a place for me
- 20:55 < Plugh> Can anyone else bring up the TOS linked under the Info menu on the osgrid website?
- 20:55 < nebadon> well guys we are so off topic here I am going to ask this conversation end
- 20:55 < Hiro_Protagonist> I havent tried Plugh
- 20:55 < nebadon> this is a development channel
- 20:55 < Hiro_Protagonist> thank you
- 20:55 < nebadon> this discussion should not even be occuring here
- 20:55 < nebadon> we can all talk in private, but i suggest everyone step back for a bit and cool off
- 20:56 < nebadon> making decisions when your upset is never a good idea
- 20:56 < lkalif> nebadon: you have a governence problem
- 20:56 < lkalif> no amount of trying to silence it will help that
- 20:56 < Plugh> Add the info to the TOS and done.
- 20:56 < nebadon> ok well like i said, conversation here is done for now
- 20:56 < nebadon> no need to keep beating a dead horse
- 20:56 < nebadon> we get it
- 20:57 < nebadon> we'll talk more about it and get things a little more clear so everyone understands
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> let's see how hiro does not approve of Songularity, shall we
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> 21:47 <Hiro_Protagonist> I would, without qualifi
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> cation, apologize for getting off to a bad start
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> with you
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> 21:48 <Hiro_Protagonist> your viewer is a very ni
- 20:58 < SianaGearz> ce piece of work
- 21:00 < lkalif> heh
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