12:50 SilentVerse whee, don't really wanna bring this up again, but 12:50 SilentVerse "Subjectivity around Queen? Yes I agree which is why it shouldn't even be a suspect. You can't objectively demonstrate that it's broken so don't ban it." 12:50 SilentVerse i disagree with this, on the basis that 12:51 SilentVerse if people disagree about something, it SHOULD be suspected 12:51 SilentVerse because that is the point of a suspect test 12:51 Texas i honestly dont care if its SUSPECTED because lol omastar, but I have a huge issue if it gets banned 12:53 Texas I honestly can't think of anyone in recent memory who's said, "man, nidoqueen really destroys this team even though i knew it was good and made sure to check it when teambuilding" 12:53 SilentVerse i have lol 12:53 SilentVerse not in rarelyused, but 12:53 SilentVerse there have so many times where i have though 12:54 SilentVerse "oh, man, tangrowth checks this and this and this and this" 12:54 SilentVerse oh shit, it leaves me vulnerable to queen and i gotta slap uxie on my team if i use it 12:54 SilentVerse etc etc 12:55 Texas which is not the same thing as what i said 12:55 SilentVerse do explain what you said then 12:55 Texas "man, nidoqueen really destroys this team even though i knew it was good and made sure to check it when teambuilding" 12:55 Texas i dont think its that hard to understand what i said lol 12:56 SilentVerse o 12:56 SilentVerse yeah ok 12:56 SilentVerse that happened to me too~ 12:56 SilentVerse take my 12:56 SilentVerse stall team vs windsong for example 12:56 SilentVerse i have still lost to nidoqueen multiple times 12:56 SilentVerse even though i ran a pokemon that is supposed to outright beat it 12:56 Texas you;ll have to provide team examples i dont have them memorized 12:58 SilentVerse ugh 12:58 SilentVerse fine 12:58 SilentVerse steelix 12:58 SilentVerse poliwrath 12:58 SilentVerse lickilikcy 12:58 Texas also i dont think its necessary that all team styles be viable anymore 12:58 SilentVerse roselia 12:58 Texas look at OU 12:58 SilentVerse cryogonal 12:58 Texas stall hasnt been viable in years 12:58 SilentVerse spiritomb 12:58 SilentVerse yes, which is why 12:58 SilentVerse so many people quit because of bw ou 12:58 SilentVerse 9.9 12:59 Texas thats a very sweeping generalization 12:59 Texas and a potentially faulty cause and effect 13:00 Texas also explain to me how your team lost 13:00 Texas it looks to me like windsong removed licky and cryo 13:00 Texas and then cleaned up with queen? 13:00 SilentVerse not just in windsong's match 13:00 SilentVerse in my grand slam match vs blarajan for example 13:00 Texas speaking specifically to that match though 13:00 SilentVerse i used a similar team with wish gallade 13:00 Texas is that more or less what happened? 13:00 SilentVerse no, i had to risk 13:00 SilentVerse burning it with tomb to kill it 13:01 SilentVerse otherwise i'm pretty sure i still would've lost 13:01 SilentVerse because his team kept pressuring mine 13:01 SilentVerse and licki did not have time to use wish + protect 13:01 SilentVerse without letting shit like kabutops set up for free 13:01 Texas ah see now we see the logical flaw 13:01 Texas you've attributed nidoqueens brokenness to factors outside of its influence 13:02 Texas including team pressure 13:02 SilentVerse are you 13:02 SilentVerse kidding me 13:02 SilentVerse so because nidoqueen doesn't automatically 6-0 a team by it's own 13:02 SilentVerse doesn't mean it's broken 13:02 Texas nidoqueen cannot sweep most of the tier with little or no effort on its own 13:03 Texas would you say that is a false statement? 13:03 SilentVerse it sweeps most of the tier 13:03 SilentVerse with little or no effort 13:04 SilentVerse lol 13:04 Texas really? 13:04 SilentVerse and it supports offensive teams 13:04 Texas pick a pokemon that its faster than 13:04 SilentVerse but providing enough support to pressure defensive teams 13:04 SilentVerse tangrowth 13:04 Texas pick the ones slower then it that check it 13:04 Texas err sorry, thats faster than it 13:04 Texas is what i meant to say 13:05 Texas the majority of things faster than it, roughly 40-50% of the tier can KO it 13:05 Texas a smaller percentage of things slower than it 13:05 Texas say 5% will wall it 13:05 Texas say 10% of things slower than it can take a hit and KO back but will be 2HKOd 13:06 Texas by no logical reasoning does nidoqueen sweep through the majority of the metagame with little effort 13:06 SilentVerse so what you're saying is 13:06 SilentVerse "fuk stall / defensive balance" 13:06 SilentVerse bitch please, just use offense 13:07 Texas if the metagame with nidoqueen in it is more conducive to using offense then more people will use that 13:07 Texas if the metagame without nidoqueen in it is more conducive to defensive balance / stall more people will use that 13:07 Texas there is no "right" metagame 13:08 Texas which is why you HAVE to evaluate Nidoqueen bsed on its own merits 13:11 SilentVerse except 13:11 SilentVerse the key difference between the metagames 13:11 SilentVerse is the difference in viability 13:11 SilentVerse between certain teamstyles 13:11 SilentVerse i have no doubt that a metagame without nidoqueen 13:11 SilentVerse will have every type of teamstyle be at least viable 13:11 SilentVerse like 13:11 SilentVerse nidoqueen has just singlehandedly 13:12 SilentVerse eradicated defensive balanced / stall 13:12 SilentVerse and even stuff like 13:12 SilentVerse trick room 13:12 SilentVerse which were once incredibly effective 13:12 Texas you cannot attribute tr to queen 13:12 SilentVerse yes 13:12 SilentVerse you can 13:12 Texas that was solely cofags domain 13:12 SilentVerse even with cofag 13:12 SilentVerse tr was dying 13:12 SilentVerse because nidoqueen utterly demolished it 13:12 SilentVerse single-handedly 13:12 Texas lol 13:13 Texas slowking, druddigon, aggron 13:13 Texas common tr sweepers that demolish queen 13:13 SilentVerse 2hkoed 13:13 Texas cofag, sets up in its face 13:13 SilentVerse queen is killing like 2-3 mons at least 13:13 SilentVerse nope, 2hkoed 13:13 SilentVerse just switch queen in on aggron on the last turn of tr 13:13 Texas tr is up 13:13 Texas irrelevant 13:13 SilentVerse and see how many issues tr has recovering from it 13:13 SilentVerse no 13:13 SilentVerse tr lasts 13:13 SilentVerse for 3 turns basically 13:13 Texas you said cofag is 2hkod 13:14 Texas what does it care 13:14 Texas it set up tr and weakened queen 13:14 SilentVerse my point is 13:14 SilentVerse NOTHING 13:14 SilentVerse can switch in on nidoqueen 13:14 Texas mesprit 13:14 SilentVerse to get cofag in safely to set up tr again in the first place 13:14 SilentVerse you have to sac something 13:14 SilentVerse 2hkoed 13:14 Texas prediction 13:14 SilentVerse ah yes 13:14 SilentVerse nidoqueen is always going to make the most obvious moves 13:14 Texas ah yes 13:14 SilentVerse arguably the best told me 13:14 SilentVerse *tournament player 13:14 Texas queen is always predicting perfectly 13:15 SilentVerse that if you are in the position to have to predict 13:15 SilentVerse you are losing 13:15 Texas wouldn't disagree witht hat statemtn; but that inherently assumes that the queen player is always winning 13:15 SilentVerse no 13:15 SilentVerse but the queen player 13:15 SilentVerse has the inherent advantage here 13:15 Texas if queen never has to predict then yes it does assume that 13:16 SilentVerse it doesn't really have to 13:16 SilentVerse it's not hard to weaken mesprit 13:16 Texas lets assume we have queen vs cofag 13:16 SilentVerse no 13:16 SilentVerse why the fuck 13:16 Texas are you really sludge waving that cofag? 13:16 SilentVerse would you do that 13:16 SilentVerse unless you are in on the last turn of tr 13:16 SilentVerse you're not gonna sludge wave 13:16 SilentVerse however, you are gonna 13:16 SilentVerse fire blast 13:16 SilentVerse because that + ep probably 2hkoes 13:17 Texas terrible probability management there 13:17 SilentVerse lol 13:17 Texas why open yourself up to the possiblity of a miss 13:17 Texas when you arent even guaranteed to get a 2hko 13:17 SilentVerse yes 13:17 SilentVerse you are 13:17 SilentVerse . 13:18 SilentVerse there is literally 13:18 SilentVerse very little risk to fire blast / flamethrower first 13:18 SilentVerse to catch the potential mesprit switch in 13:18 SilentVerse instead of letting it switch in for free 13:19 Texas is it necessary to argue about queen every day >_> 13:19 Texas i dont think either of us are changing our opinions 13:19 SilentVerse yes 13:19 SilentVerse 13:19 SilentVerse troo 13:19 SilentVerse but the point of these arguments 13:19 SilentVerse is that 13:19 Texas yeah but i have to shower before a teammate does an spl battle 13:20 SilentVerse queen shifts the metagame and outright makes certain teamstyles almost unviable 13:20 Texas can we please discard shifting the metagame as a legitimate argument 13:20 Texas its literally the most pointless thing 13:20 SilentVerse fine 13:20 SilentVerse but can we 13:20 SilentVerse say making certain playstyles almost unviable 13:21 Texas like what do you think would happen if houndoom drops down 13:21 SilentVerse is a perfectly legitimate argument 13:21 SilentVerse obviously 13:21 SilentVerse it is to the extent it shifts the metagame that matters however 13:21 SilentVerse but ok w/e, not gonna go on that train of that 13:21 Texas making certain playstyles almost unviable 13:21 SilentVerse *thought 13:21 Texas is legitimate if you can empirically support that they are in fact unviable 13:22 Texas ima afk now 13:23 SilentVerse kk