== Topic for #futuristparty is: Next Meeting, Wednesday 5/7
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idk18
welcome, Houshalter
Houshalter
hello
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EdEnlightenU
Hey
idk18
hey Ed
EdEnlightenU
are we doing stack tonight?
idk18
I thought we would
in fact, do you want to facilitate?
EdEnlightenU
I could try... haven't dont it before
idk18
first time for everything
Xenophon1
idk18 will you take the honor?
EdEnlightenU
If we don't have too many people show then stack might not be necessary
idk18
I think it's good for someone new to do it as much as possible
EdEnlightenU
Having this sunday next week might be better than saturday
Xenophon1
Maybe once-a-week would be more popular
idk18
maybe. My sunday availability is iffy, but whatever the majority wants to do
EdEnlightenU
I kinda like meeting twice a week personally
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idk18
the drop in activity is to be expected
EdEnlightenU
Hey Jet
Jet
Hello
EdEnlightenU
Where are ya from?
Jet
North Carolina
I ran into the subreddit a few days ago, got interested
EdEnlightenU
nice... anywhere close to UNC greensboro?
Jet
Yes actually, south Charlotte
EdEnlightenU
really cool one of my best friends just graduated from there this year
Jet
About an hours drive
I hope this isn't going to be the max activity
EdEnlightenU
We'll start in 5 min
idk18
Jet: we're usually a bigger crowd
Jet
Alright cool
idk18
saturdays sound like they're not a good time for most folks
xenophon1's suggestion of once a week might not be a bad.
EdEnlightenU
I did a major update to the website
http://futurist-party.appspot.com/
kitzibot
[ Futurist Party ] - futurist-party.appspot.com
EdEnlightenU
Did a google venture layout
idk18
oooh, neat
I like
EdEnlightenU
Only the main page is done.... the rest shouldn't be too hard though once the template is done
Xeno or Jet any thoughts
or Houshalter
idk18
so it's 9:10. We can probably start. Should we take a vote on whether to use the stack system? There's only 5 of us tonight, it looks like
EdEnlightenU
I'd say no
Xenophon1
no
EdEnlightenU
no
idk18
I
will vote nay too
lol
but
I wrote a thing up in anticipation of being in stack
can I paste it in to start us off?
EdEnlightenU
sure
idk18
"Before going any farther, I want us to stop and examine the decision to create a political party.
A political party is a machine. Donors input money to fund campaigns. Successful campaigns produce politicians who output policy which the donors support.
We lack a donor list. But I think we all have an idea of who is most likely to fund our campaigns. That is, the newly made millionaires and billionaires of the technology industry. Men like Elon Musk and Pierre Omidyar. In a phrase, Silicon Valley Money.
All discussion about organizing politically should confront how the organization will be funded. Without money, we risk becoming another fringe party, the type of party which is registered in a dozen states, has a thousand members, and occasionally runs a candidate for a state-wide office who gets 5% of the vote. In other words, if we don't tackle this issue we will remain irrelevant.
I have a specific suggestion concerning this issue which I will propose later, but first I want to just start the conversation.
/end
EdEnlightenU
I am in favor of staying a political party
It's that or a think tank
Jet
The site looks great
EdEnlightenU
thanks
The democratic party is just as corrupt as the republican
Xenophon1
Great insights. Money plays an inalienable role
EdEnlightenU
We're at infant stage
we haven't tried to raise money....
idk what do you propose instead?
Xenophon1
Rithius had a post
http://www.reddit.com/r/futuristparty/comments/24kp9g/what_are_your_thoughts_on_money_in_politics/
kitzibot
[ What are your thoughts on money in politics? : futuristparty ] - www.reddit.com
EdEnlightenU
Isn't that more referring about lobbying?
idk18
lobbying is a part of it, but campaign contributions are huge
EdEnlightenU: I guess you've already heard my proposal. The "think tank"
I can copy that in here too if people'd like to read it
Xenophon1
Yeah that'd be great
idk18
So I call this the "three pronged" approach. The idea is to use the system to make the change, rather than biting at its angles
part 1:
A Think Tank and Public Awareness Institute, similar in function to the Heritage Foundation. At first glance this would probably be incorporated as a 501(c)3, though I need to do more research on the particulars. The purpose of this organization would be to change the content of political discourse. Like the Heritage Foundation helped make tax cuts the issue of the day, this organization would work to popularize a lot of the issues we are talking about (N
2. 501(c)4 organizations. A Political Action Committee to raise funds for candidates we support and a lobbyist organization to give us a voice in drafting legislation on the hill. Again, this is from the very sucessful Heritage Foundation model. They have a constellation of organizations which allow them to operate politically despite their non-political status as a 501(c)3.
3.Organizations to facilitate grass-roots campaigns. These would pop-up and fade away based on the on the issues of the day. For example, right now I feel we need to organize against the threats to Net Neutrality. These organizations would likely take the form of loose coalitions between our foundation and relevant groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and American Civil Liberties Union. Once steps 1. and 2. are accomplished, the resulting pol
basically, we want to formulate ourselves as something that the silicon valley types, whose money we want, could believe we have the potential power to make change
Xenophon1
We have much to contemplate as our movement evolves.
EdEnlightenU
idk18 if we were to label ourselves as a think tank do you think we would get more or less interest?
idk18
we wouldn't be relabeling ourselves. We would be developing a pitch to groups like the Millenium Project, Machine Intelligence Institute, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Basic Income Network, etc. etc. that we need to enact the above plan.
we need to move beyond the idea that this subreddit has any sort of significance
EdEnlightenU
We could still pitch them as the Futurist Party and they would be equally if not more interested
idk18
why is that?
EdEnlightenU
To support a party aligned with their interests
idk18
I'm sorry, but third parties don't work
the only time a new party has ever succeeded is when the one it replaced was dying
EdEnlightenU
I mean that is the difference in our opinion
The republican party is somewhat dying
idk18
and it's an extremely serious difference which deserves to be fully hashed out, because if I'm right then this party thing is a massive waste of time
EdEnlightenU
Why can't we do the things you're suggesting as the party is growing?
idk18
my basic point is that the party won't grow beyond the "registered in 12 states, ran a candidate who got 5% in a state election once" stage
and so my alternative is something I think is feasible
EdEnlightenU
Why couldn't it be accomplished in parallel?
Houshalter
I don't recognize the website lol
EdEnlightenU
yea definitely changed it up a bit
hah
EdEnlightenU
idk are yo uncomfortable doing both in parallel?
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Xenophon1
Greetings
idk18
EdEnlightenU, I think associating those organizations with a new political party will cause them to be stillborn
if the funders we need aren't willing to fund a political party, then pitching them an idea which is linked to a third party will make it toxic
EdEnlightenU
we haven't approached the funders.... they may love the idea of funding our party...
so it just as likely might be beneficial to be a think tank tied to our party
Aren't there think tanks that exist that promote Net Neutrality?
How would our think tank be any different?
idk18
I'm clearly not getting through
no, we haven't approached them
Xenophon1
Free Press, Demand Progress
Media Justice, Open Technology Institute
BipolarBear0
Do people want to make a political party/
That / should be a ?
EdEnlightenU
Yes there is a lot of interest
That's is what the people on the subreddit have been talking about the last month
BipolarBear0
Think about this
EdEnlightenU
every day
BipolarBear0
Gary Johnson -- wildly popular guy, left New Mexico with a $1 billion dollar surplus
The biggest third party candidate in the past two decades
Ran in 2012 and I actually helped organize a few of his events in Denver
Gary Johnson got over 1 million votes in the 2012 election
Which totalled... 1 percent of the national vote
Now he's still speaking and touring, but the impact he had as a third party candidate? Almost nonexistent.
And that's just his running as an LP candidate, which is the largest third party by a wide margin
As an advocacy group there's a much larger potential to enact actual change than anything else
Xenophon1
Interesting thoughts. Good to hear from you.
A major political party does not become one over night though.
They start
on the fringe.
BipolarBear0
The Libertarian Party has been in existence for 41 years
41 years later, Gary Johnson was the party's most successful candidate with 1 percent of the national vote
EdEnlightenU
We are promoting a new way of approaching politics
idk18
The socialists were a "successful" third party at the beginning of the 20th century, before the first red scare
their best presidential campaign got 6% of the popular vote
but socialism as a political ideology was much stronger
and exercised its influence primarily through labor unions
political movements just about always manifest themselves first outside the party system through various interest groups
EdEnlightenU
If you are against forming a political party, why did you join the Futurist Party subreddit?
Xenophon1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Democratic_Party
kitzibot
[ History of the United States Democratic Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] - en.wikipedia.org
idk18
EdEnlightenU: because I do believe the political discourse needs to be changed to recognize the threat that constantly changing technology represents to our social fabric
and the Futurist Party looked like an attempt to address that concern
Houshalter
well if everyone skeptical left, you'd just be a bunch of overly optimistic people reinforcing your own optimism
EdEnlightenU
Do you think the people who come to these IRC meetings would continue if it was a think tank rather than the Futurist Party?
Jet would you have come if it was a think tank?
idk18
do I care?
I'm not sure
EdEnlightenU
Who would be the think tank
Houshalter
isn't there already a think tank
idk18
In my experience, most of the people who get caught up in IRC excitement disappear after a week or two
EdEnlightenU
Have you considered getting involved with an already existing think tank that is doing the things you are talking about?
Xenophon1
Skepticism is critical. But there is a dichotomy between support and opposition
EdEnlightenU
Wouldn't it be much more effort to start an entirely new think tank if they already exist?
The Futurist Party doesn't exisit
It is new
[ChanServ]
Foundership transfer from idk18 to Xenophon1 forced by Snoonet administration.
idk18
:)
You make good points
BipolarBear0
!fflags idk18 -*
[ChanServ]
BipolarBear0 forced flags change -AORfhiorstv on idk18.
idk18
I'm going to leave you guys to it
I hope I introduced useful processes for IRC management
best of luck to you all in this endeavor, I hope you succeed!
Xenophon1
from my experience, I have come from a Think-Tank. I have been loosely involved as a volunteer with non-profits and foundations ever since I worked with MIRI. I believe that many of them, from this future-centric culture I experienced at the Singularity Summit and Singularity University, suffer a similar illness.
This common illness is a distinct impotence. There is no unified banner. No widespread social momentum.
The holders of real seats in congress are wary to adopt the opinions of these groups. They work with them, they sidestep them. If they want to find themselves in another term, they holders of these places of power must court the multiplicity of opinions and goals.
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Xenophon1
I think that alongside schenbergs steps he have carefully outlined, there is no mutual exclusiveness to an effective third party
believe a third party could not only represent all these initiatives but unite them and guide them with a single banner, a single logo, a single idea
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Xenophon1
If we launch a third party, we could achieve the institutionalization of this singular idea. The same as the Green Party represents a national institutionalization of sustainability, we might cement a national institutionalization of forward thinking and long-term solutions.
BipolarBear0
Do you want to represent an ideal, or do you want to accomplish an ideal
Xenophon1
We do not know what the future holds.
BipolarBear0
Because the Green Party sure as hell represents an ideal, but they haven't accomplished anything
Xenophon1
Agreed.
I vote to adjourn this meeting. 7.05
EdEnlightenU
ok
EdEnlightenU
I have some family over having a bofire
I'll catch up with you guys soon
Xenophon1
Live long and prosper