[09:03:04] <@X-Ray_Dog> [02:27:38] I'm not restoring vanquish's points
[09:03:04] <@X-Ray_Dog> [02:27:43] He removed those fair and square
[09:03:04] <@X-Ray_Dog> [02:29:51] Also 6 points for agreeing to be called hitler in irc and then giving him points on the forum?
[09:03:04] <@X-Ray_Dog> [02:29:53] What logic??
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[09:03:04] <grenadier> [13:29:42] something changed
[09:03:04] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:13:12] grenadier: Why did you insta ban marti?
[09:03:04] <grenadier> [15:19:22] http://forum.cubers.net/modcp.php?action=banning + http://forum.cubers.net/search.php?action=results&sid=6b59a723e9e27d02ed0d6ed0ff8827b5
[09:03:04] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:22:23] The main question I have is the “insta” banning and the fact that there was no reason to ban him over a quote
[09:03:04] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:22:42] If you find that quote embarassing then maybe stef shouldn’t of let it happen
[09:03:04] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:23:04] But honestly this instant banning shit is why Marti and others give you greif
[09:03:04] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:23:18] If you would relax and give it up, they would have nothing to bug you about
[09:03:04] <grenadier> [15:24:47] I am relaxed :)
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:25:25] Then why the instant ban?
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:27:11] Anyways, I’m going to unban him. Feel free to give him a +3 warning
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:27:17] But really it wasn’t that bad
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:27:48] there is given a reasons + I save the project
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:28:27] There are given reason for a warning
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:28:42] Have you seen the posts on the mod forums about how we want moderation to be done
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:28:55] Outlines warning and banning procedures
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:29:10] http://forum.cubers.net/thread-10.html
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:29:18] Read the “Insta-ban offences” section
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:29:24] These rules have worked out well in the past
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:30:52] Marti provokes and provokes, so there shouldn't be surprise, that he is banned again
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:31:33] Just going to be honest, he provokes because a ton of people don’t apperciate you or stef
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:31:51] You and stef start devving and then start cracking down half of the active users
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:32:14] This sort of moderation has never been the precedent so ofc people are going to retaliate
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:32:26] This retaliation comes in the only form they can do, “provoking” you
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:32:50] Honest to god, the only reason why the other admins haven’t removed your powers is that we understand what good you do to the game
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:33:15] But in truth half of the game is in the development, the other half is in the community
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:33:20] what I did wrong?
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:33:30] Both you and stef crack down way too fast
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:33:36] With these sorts of instant banning.
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:33:38] what I did wrong?
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:34:15] You have been way too quick with banning people
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:34:28] who?
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:34:44] people don't remember bans by RK or Brahma?
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:34:57] And then makke would come on and yell at them for it
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:35:12] and I would wait awhile and silently remove them myself
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:35:17] who is banned to quick?
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:35:18] But nothing of this scale
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:35:22] Marti
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:35:27] He posted a quote and instant ban
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:35:33] There is a warning system in place
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:35:53] no, reposted deleted, in order to offend the dev
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:35:58] deleted post
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:36:24] The dev shouldn’t be offeneded by something he did in IRC
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:36:40] Anyways, the procedure is this:
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:36:47] Warn when they post, delete the post
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:36:55] If they repost, make harsher warning
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:37:06] By then they might be up to 60% which prevents them from doing it again
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:37:33] Not instant banning
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:38:11] http://forum.cubers.net/thread-8138-post-161936.html#pid161936
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:38:37] Paul went through the warning gambet many times
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:38:55] iirc banned from the forums for a period of months several times
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:39:01] and he did things much worse than marti
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:40:24] there is only about 5 trolls which get habitually warnings, bans etc.
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:40:30] Anyways, looking at what RK does isn’t the greatest, because RK is also too fast to ban
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:44:52] if people working on the project aren't specially protected, when they are habitually offended on project "space",  then...
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:45:51] They are habitually offended because they are bad community moderators
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:45:55] they are protected
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:49:38] ok, I thought, that something wrong is with Undead, Marti, Andrez, Boomhauer, but it looks, that I mistook
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:49:57] http://forum.cubers.net/modcp.php?action=warninglogs&filter%5Busername%5D=&filter%5Bmod_username%5D=grenadier&filter%5Breason%5D=&filter%5Bsortby%5D=dateline&filter%5Border%5D=desc&filter%5Bper_page%5D=20
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:53:45] Haven’t looked at what they have said recently
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:53:52] But honestly, I don’t see many warnings of marti
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:53:58] So perhaps you should warn him more often
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:59:30] Now you are personally responsible for Marti and others
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [15:59:47] No?
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [15:59:50] and negative effects for the project
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:00:18] XRD? :)
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:00:33] Honestly, do you not see most AC’ers hating you and stef right now?
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:00:54] no :D
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:01:07] btw why me? :D
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:01:17] Because you are lumped in with stef
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:01:22] (they also hate lucas, but thats a given)
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:01:41] and jamz
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:02:02] No, most people liked jamz
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:02:04] there is only a few provocators, I don't care them
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:03:11] There could be even less if you and stef moderated a lost lighter
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:03:26] why me? :D
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:03:43] Because you moderate heavy handed sometimes as well
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:04:48] usually when situation needs it
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:05:27] Yeah, maybe
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:05:43] I am not good in English arguments
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:05:45] In general I’ve just seen a load of deleted posts, not sure who does it, but that is unprecedented
[09:03:05] <grenadier> [16:05:48] as in English
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:05:53] yar, understandable
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:06:23] But inless the post is disgusting or totally unnappropriate we leave them, if anything you edit the post adding a mod note at the bottom
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:07:42] Also realized that V-Man put a perma ban on bullpup awhile ago. The ban is still listed in the mod cp, yet he is unbanned
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:07:43] huh
[09:03:05] <B}Ronald_Reagan> [16:08:00] odd, must’ve been someone in the admin cp who removed it by changing his user group
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[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:26:05] X-Ray_Dog: do you want to finish up some moderating before we talk or are you good to go?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:28:22] What?
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:32:20] you do remember our last conversation?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:32:48] I do
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:35:03] so this is your decision?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:35:55] Vanquish removed his points fair and square. You dinged him for something silly that happened in IRC. Affecting his forum profile due to IRC for a petty little thing isn't fair.
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:36:20] We all take insults from people and in irc, it's an easy kick or temp ban to fix
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:36:33] Myself, I /ignore and problem fixed
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:36:58] You may have been in AC longer than I but I've been moderating the forum longer
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:37:23] There are many people that would agree with the way I do it and the way things are outlined in the mod forum
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:37:40] But you seem to have an underlying issue
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:41:23] what issue would that be?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:41:54] How would I know, you're taking it out on the forum
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:43:11] You're too quick to moderation
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:45:53] so you say, insults and offtopic crap should be dealt with with a certain delay? what for? how long would that delay be?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:46:41] If it's off topic, it's easily deleted. If it comes back again for being off topic, then you can dish out a warning.
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:46:53] If an off topic post is complete hate, then you can do a warning the first go
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:47:04] But you nearly insta ban people for single posts that aren't even that bad
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:47:34] These people aren't cheaters, they're sheep
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:48:03] They need guidance and slamming the door in their face for some stupid post makes it so they get no feedback
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [15:51:19] would you like to give me an example? who did i insta ban since we last talked about mod rules?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:54:31] I said nearly insta banning, vanquish in this case
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:54:41] 60% blocks posting ability
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:54:48] for something he did in irc
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:55:52] The last thing that got me was your thread split which was bitching about clan and blah blah blah
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:56:11] You deliberately used the word bitching but if anyone else did, you'd probably give them a warning, no?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:56:18] You're supposed to be a leader
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:56:23] But you provoked them in this case
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [15:56:53] That's why I revoked the warnings in that thread because I don't think that was very fair, and just closed it
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:04:52] when i split that last thread, i cut off the offtopic part and moved it to "offtopic" - i didn't delete it, because a) lucas was involved and b) it was only offtopic, so it could have continued in "offtopic" without problem
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:05:04] you may notice at this point, that i did something, while you did nothing, even though you always say, "that you moderate the forum"
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:05:25] when in fact you mostly don't
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:06:12] when they started insulting, i started giving warnings -  not before
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:07:03] even though all of them would have known before the split, that they went offtopic
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:08:04] and: they got single points
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:09:17] however: I'd still like an example for "But you nearly insta ban people for single posts that aren't even that bad"
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:11:27] You've issued vanquish enough points to be banned
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:11:32] marti twice over
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:11:38] mise has quite a few
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:11:47] alert too
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:11:56] Most of these are for being off topic
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:12:03] As I had said before, just delete the posts
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:12:08] If they come up again, then warn
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:12:44] I very actively moderate the forum, just filter the moderator logs by my name
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:12:51] The last 20 results are all from this month
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:13:20] they're all posts deleted or threads moved
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:15:26] g1gantuan made a really off topic shit post that was completely cussing out the OP and I still only gave him 4 points
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:15:35] But you give 3 for off topic posts sometimes
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:31:39] Look, I've only revoked 3 of your warnings recently which means the rest are ok. I've expressed why I thought they were wrong too
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [16:31:43] I've g2g
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:46:18] actually, you revoked all warning points that i gave during the last two weeks
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:46:41] also: what happened to the warning logs? are you editing them?
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [16:50:14] and: I'd still like an example for "But you nearly insta ban people for single posts that aren't even that bad"
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:38:30] <stef|grue> actually, you revoked all warning points that i gave during the last two weeks
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:38:32] <@X-Ray_Dog> Look, I've only revoked 3 of your warnings recently
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:38:51] technically I only revoked two, I was wrong
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:38:54] Vanquish did the last one
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:39:11] I can't edit the warning log as you think
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:39:22] I can sort it or delete everything completely
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:42:47] the warning vanquish gave me (and revoked) is gone
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:42:55] instead i now have a warning from marti - would you care to explain that one?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:43:18] http://forum.cubers.net/warnings.php?action=view&wid=612
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:43:22] it's right there
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:43:41] vanquish never warned you, you warned him
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:44:41] i showed you the warning and the message he sent me through the system
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:45:45] http://i.imgur.com/G7l7Zd4.png
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:45:48] This is your ss
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:45:55] I only see a marti on there
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:47:17] it's a quote from marti, but the warning was from vanquish
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:47:25] i showed it to you
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:47:33] <X-Ray_Dog>	Titans can do that??
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:47:53] vanquish isn't a titan
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:47:59] He's an actual mod for specific forums
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:48:11] marti is a tester and suggester and I mistook it for titan
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:48:16] Because they used to be titans
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:48:20] your words
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:48:23] how did i get a warning from marti?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:49:24] I'm not even sure vanquish can warn you, let alone marti
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:49:42] how did i get a warning from marti?
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:49:57] you see that one, right?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:51:21] I do yes but I can't play with it now
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:51:56] Revoke it if you want
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:52:16] what did i get that warning for?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:53:14] It's not tied to a post
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:54:22] k off again, 8 hour shift. Could be something in martis profile
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:54:32] you remember, that i told you two days ago, that i won't be moderating the forum anymore?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:54:48] You don't have to mod the forum, no one is forcing you :P
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:54:54] you said, _you_ would moderate
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:55:41] and i asked you earlier, if you had some catching up to do, moderating
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:56:44] Pretty sure you were making a reference to vanquish
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:56:59] Moderating the forum isn't the only thing I do around here and there are plenty of other people to look after the forum too
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:57:05] Anyone can report posts as well and they do
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:58:23] you have time enough to moderate other moderators
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:58:50] I'm trying to keep an eye on everything as I can, yes
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:58:54] you revoked martis single point, that he got for calling me an idiot, the same day he got it
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:01] THat's easy to click on the mod cp
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:10] Marti also joins irc and mesages me
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [17:59:17] so, what did i get those three points for - any why do i still have them?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:19] As do planty of others regarding the forum and other people
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:28] I revoked them
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:33] plenty**
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:43] The community talks to me openly
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:54] I join teamspeak sometimes, I'm in irc 24/7 to take messages
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [17:59:56] etc etc
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:00:14] I'm embedded in a way people are willing to talk to me and it helps in propper moderation
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:00:44] We all have different ideas of moderation but it's always been to simply delete offending posts
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:00:49] if it repeats, then warn
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:01:09] Lucas and RK used to take tons of shit from people and it took a lot of that before they went and banned or warned people
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:02:10] did i in some way not follow the rules we set up for warnings?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:03:20] You're jumping to warnings too quickly
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:03:30] We talked about this before
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:03:44] I won't stop you from moderating and warning people unless I feel it's out of line
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:03:47] aka that thread
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:03:55] But I've only revoked those two
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:04:34] i won't be moderating the forum anymore - that's not what this is about
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:04:36] Undead has said tons of shit about me as well and I've only ever banned him for doing it to others, not myself
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:04:45] As an example
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:04:58] Rule of thumb has always been to get another mods opinion if someone is attacking you
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:05:24] RR can vouch for me on that specifically too
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:05:38] but i am quite sure, that 1 point for a direct insult is not exceeding what we agreed upon
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:06:48] But it was in a thread that never should have existed
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:07:03] Because it was provoked
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:07:17] yeah, that's bs
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:07:50] Again, if marti created a thread that said bitching about brc, would you have done anything?
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:07:52] Probably
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:08:01] So why can you do it?
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:08:37] the thread needed a new title, the content didn't match the old title - which is why part of the thread was moved
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:08:55] the edited title was accurate toi the content
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:09:49] it was (in small parts) a legitimate discussion - which is why i didn't delete it
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:10:21] and it was a single point
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:10:26] for a direct insult
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:10:52] if marti manages to get his level up to where it hurts, he should stop insulting
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:10:58] Everything in that thread was ok until lucas posted
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:11:04] "who gives a fuck really ? "
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:11:06] ... which is btw the whole point of giving warnings
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:11:12] Should have stopped there
[09:03:05] <@X-Ray_Dog> [18:11:27] But again, he's at 0% warning
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:11:39] you could have, if you wanted to - you didn't
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:12:10] if you see a thread that would warrant warning points for lucas, go ahead
[09:03:05] <stef|grue> [18:13:10] but again: i won't be moderating the forum anymore - that's not what this is about