[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon> GUYS
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Birkal> and now I need to pay 700$ to fix the bumper -__-
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon> CONSTRUCTIVE CHAT TIME!
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Zt> ?_?
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon> What do you guys believe the purposes of promotions should be?
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <DetroitLolcat> I mean, voice does not confer any power to a user, so I see voices as people who have distinguished themselves from the average user for whatever reason.
[01/30/13 | 23:02] <Phwnemon> If we're going to promote people we need to pin this down first
[01/30/13 | 23:03] <DetroitLolcat> hmm...i remember when I got my bumper fucked up.
[01/30/13 | 23:03] * mikel|away is now known as mikel
[01/30/13 | 23:03] <jas61292> I see statuses as a measure of contribution. You contribute a decent amount, you get voice. Not much too it.
[01/30/13 | 23:03] <DetroitLolcat> I was driving one day and this shady guy with a heavy accent drove up to me and told me he "knew a guy" who could fix my car "for cheap"...
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <Phwnemon> Lolcat - is there really a need to voice users just because they distinguish themselves? I'd think that if you were a distinguished chatter you'd make it known via chatting
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <Zt> ^ @ jas
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <jas61292> Higher levels are more about discussion leadership, but it is not like you have to be absurdly amazing at everything
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <Zt> Why don't we follow loosely Showdown's structure?
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <DetroitLolcat> You can make it known via chatting, and voice is just a tangible reward for those who have done so.
[01/30/13 | 23:04] <Phwnemon> So it serves no actual purpose other than as a reward to those who get it?
[01/30/13 | 23:05] <Zt> People who contribute enough get voice (mostly regular stayers who tried, at least, to chat)
[01/30/13 | 23:05] <DetroitLolcat> Essentially, as what else is voice for?
[01/30/13 | 23:05] <Zt> And a drive to go further, too, pwne.
[01/30/13 | 23:05] * Tobes has quit (Ping timeout)
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[01/30/13 | 23:05] <DetroitLolcat> I mean, voice confers no significant powers, so why not just use it as a "badge of respect"?
[01/30/13 | 23:05] <Phwnemon> I was under the impression that it was to point out the distinguished chatters of the channel as models to emulate
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <imanalt|phone> abolish voice!
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <Zt> Pwne - maybe that status can be driven up to Hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <jas61292> Yes, but there are just as there are multiple levels of quality, there are multiple levels of status
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <Phwnemon> Then i fear that someone being voiced would give the wrong impression
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <Zt> Not really, Pwne.
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <Phwnemon> Basically nobody who isn't a role model to emulate should get any kind of auth
[01/30/13 | 23:06] <imanalt|phone> ive never liked voice anywhere because it just makes people feel superior or inferior, which is just bad
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon> That's what i was saying too alty
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon> For an /hour/ yesterday lol
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <DetroitLolcat> I agree alty, but that's why I think voice should be given sparingly.
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <capefeather> I was checking the access list today and I remembered why I stopped caring about auth levels
[01/30/13 | 23:07] * smashlloyd20 has quit (Ping timeout)
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <capefeather> is doug the "owner" of this channel now or what's going on?
[01/30/13 | 23:07] <Phwnemon> Yeah
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <DetroitLolcat> He wasn't always the owner?
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <jas61292> nope
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon> My agreement with alty is why i think voice needs to be conferred for a purpose other than a reward
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon> Because as a reward it does an awful shitty job
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <capefeather> tennisace has always been the owner afaik
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <jas61292> tennisace still is
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <imanalt|phone> no im saying dont give voice for anything
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <imanalt|phone> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:08] <Phwnemon> Neither am i
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <DetroitLolcat> Right, I understand your position alty. I just draw a different conclusion
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon> But giving voice as a "you're special" badge i don't like because as i said it makes people feel inferior or superior
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon> As you said*
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <capefeather> I don't think I'll truly be able to take auth levels seriously until that is addressed
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon> Djd is too lazy to take it over from tennis
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <DetroitLolcat> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <Phwnemon> It's seriously nbd
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <jas61292> Why does it matter?
[01/30/13 | 23:09] <jas61292> Its not important honestly
[01/30/13 | 23:10] * imanalt|phone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
[01/30/13 | 23:10] <Phwnemon> But back on topic
[01/30/13 | 23:10] <capefeather> it is if someone can arbitrarily dick around with a channel he doesn't go to anymore
[01/30/13 | 23:10] <Zt> We boycott #cap until it disintegrates, then DJD re-reg it?
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <Zt> Create a #captemp or something to fill in.
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <Phwnemon> Tennis isnt that kinda guy
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <jas61292> lol, I remember Birkal suggesting that once a while ago when the issue first came up
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <DetroitLolcat> Tennis still goes on smogon?
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <DetroitLolcat> o_O
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal> yes
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal> he regulars on smogon still
[01/30/13 | 23:11] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat> man I never see him lol
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <Fusxfaranto> yeah, he's really active in NU
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon> He posted like yesterday or today
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon> In a forum
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <Zt> eh forum?
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat> oh
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat> I don't go in eh forum much outside the NFL thread
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <DetroitLolcat> so that's probably why lol
[01/30/13 | 23:12] <Phwnemon> I dont keep up with the dumb name changes to a forum
[01/30/13 | 23:13] <Phwnemon> But ANYWAY
[01/30/13 | 23:13] <capefeather> he "was that kinda guy" once
[01/30/13 | 23:13] <Zt> cape - I think he simply stopped caring.
[01/30/13 | 23:13] <Phwnemon> Since auth as we've established has no real use for discipline or very little
[01/30/13 | 23:14] <Zt> So if it really comes to that, we can just move to another channel.
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[01/30/13 | 23:14] <Phwnemon> It needs to be assigned for a different purpose
[01/30/13 | 23:14] <Phwnemon> Agreed?
[01/30/13 | 23:14] <jas61292> Not really. Its purpose now is fine.
[01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon> Discipline takes second fiddle to whatever we decide to do with our auth system - i believe that we'll be fine discipline wide either way
[01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon> Wise
[01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon> Jas are you advocating not to change our auth system
[01/30/13 | 23:15] <Phwnemon> Besides i don't even know what its purpose now is lol its kinda a mess
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Birkal> can't we just have whoever is the IRC operator choose
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <jas61292> I agree that disipline has little to do with it. Obviously if you can't trust someone with op power you don't give it to them, but otherwise it shouldn't matter
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon> Birkal uh
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat> hmm
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon> A) that sounds a lot autocratic
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <jas61292> There is nothing wrong with the purpose though. Just the system that decides it
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat> birkal wants IRC operators to have more power
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Phwnemon> B) how do we decide the irc op
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat> birkal is an IRC operator
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat> TYRANT! AUTOCRAT! OVERTHROW
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <DetroitLolcat> :P
[01/30/13 | 23:16] <Zt> Powah abooze
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <DetroitLolcat> viva la revolucion
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon> Jas you still never said what its purpose is
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon> I'm not being an ass here frankly i dont know
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon> What is the purpose of auth atm on #cap
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <jas61292> Recognition to people who are good chat presence
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal> I am in a way, lolcat
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal> currently the mods are the IRC operators
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal> that's why status is so wonky
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Birkal> because it's like, we have to confirm all changes with each other
[01/30/13 | 23:17] <Phwnemon> Recognition how jas
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon> As in a reward?
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> Not reward.
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <DetroitLolcat> I think what pwnemon is getting at is that "recognition" is an ambiguous term.
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon> Yes
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> Because what, having ops in an IRC channel is a reward?
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew> recognition means gold stars
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew> everybody loves gold stars
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon> We're saying "recognition" as if it settles it
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Kadew> give out gold stars to everybody
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Phwnemon> When it still leaves a fuckton of ambiguity
[01/30/13 | 23:18] * dodrio (dodrio@Trainer.Of.Birds) has left #cap
[01/30/13 | 23:18] <Zt> I don't think so - recognition is simply "Hey you've been here long enough"
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292> Not a reward at all. It is more of a label, honestly. Its saying "see that person with a % (or @ or whatever)? They are good"
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <Kadew> been here long enough /and/ talked a bunch
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <DetroitLolcat> "recognition" as in that this person is a role model and should be recognized, or "recognition" as in that this person is an experienced member of CAP
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292> "Follow their example"
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <Phwnemon> So you're saying recognition as in showing others who to emulate
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <jas61292> pretty much
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <Phwnemon> Good so we're on the same page
[01/30/13 | 23:19] <Zt> My answer to that, DLC is "recognition" as in this person has been around IRC long enough.
[01/30/13 | 23:20] <Phwnemon> So you think we should voice someone just for being experienced zt?
[01/30/13 | 23:20] <DetroitLolcat> And the other question is: should an experienced but mediocre-quality user be given voice?
[01/30/13 | 23:20] <Zt> I don't see why not, Pwne - since voice and below still have to look up to drivers/mods/hops and above.
[01/30/13 | 23:20] <Zt> Same to DLC.
[01/30/13 | 23:20] <Phwnemon> But it's not about that, zt
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon> It's all about what the lower auth levels have to look up to
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <jas61292> Exactly, that is what a multitiered system is about. It is not "good users" and "bad users"
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon> If we voice a mediocre user, it sets a bad role model for non-voiced users
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Zt> When people see voice, they go "Oh this guys has been around long enough, if I'm not voiced, maybe I should listen for a while to how he talks the talk"
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon> But being around for long doesn't make you a good user
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <DetroitLolcat> However, regular users will probably look up to voiced users more than any other group, because any regular user who wants to move up will shoot for voice.
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <jas61292> Voice is not the be all and end all of good chat
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Phwnemon> .-.
[01/30/13 | 23:21] <Zt> And users learn fast who is a better role model, even amongst voice.
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon> But if we're voicing users to prove who is a role model
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <DetroitLolcat> but should bad or average role models be given voice in the first place?
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon> Then saying "you'll learn who's a role model among the voice"
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon> Kinda defeats the point of voicing
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <DetroitLolcat> Why not cut the ambiguity and only voice the role models?
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <Zt> Pwne - "better role model"
[01/30/13 | 23:22] <Phwnemon> I agree with dlc
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon> I don't think voicing is graduating fourth grade
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon> Where when you hang around long enough they hand it to you
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Neither do I.
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Voicing would be more like acing fourth grade.
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Phwnemon> ? Zt i am confused as hell
[01/30/13 | 23:23] <Zt> Where you have to hang out and be good enough before you get it.
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Zt> Not the best, but at least good enough.
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon> I don't think time in the channel
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon> Should have anything to do with it
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon> For voice at least, higher auth yes
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <DetroitLolcat> and then we move to the "what is good enough"
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon> Yeah
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <DetroitLolcat> are average users with lots of experience considered good role models for their dedication?
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Zt> a) Able to throw out sound ideas. Agreed?
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Phwnemon> I don't think anyone who's got argumentative (in a bad way) tendencies should be voiced
[01/30/13 | 23:24] <Yilx> yeah
[01/30/13 | 23:25] <Yilx> too riksy a move
[01/30/13 | 23:25] <DetroitLolcat> Quality should be stressed over quantity, but there's something to be said for voluble posters
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[01/30/13 | 23:25] <DetroitLolcat> err, chatters!
[01/30/13 | 23:25] <jas61292> Exactly
[01/30/13 | 23:25] <Phwnemon> You can't get voice by piping up once in a blue moon, either
[01/30/13 | 23:25] <Zt> A voice should, at least, be able to say "Wonder Guard is bad optics" without needing to read PRC.
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> (of course this is a mere illustrated example)
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon> That's like easier than shitting in a toilet, zt
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> Of course - all it takes is common sense, right?
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <DetroitLolcat> what if these "once in a blue moon" chatters contribute great material to the chat?
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon> I believe you are setting the bar a bit too low for voice
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Phwnemon> They're still not active enough to be a role model
[01/30/13 | 23:26] <Zt> Perhaps, Pwne - raise the bar if you will?
[01/30/13 | 23:27] <Zt> We can always haggle/bargain/consent.
[01/30/13 | 23:27] <Zt> :P
[01/30/13 | 23:27] <Phwnemon> Basically we've all been in that chat where someone has auth and you go "why the fuck do they have auth they don't even talk"
[01/30/13 | 23:27] <Phwnemon> Even if their occasional contributions are stellar they don't deserve auth
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> So first off - we need chat presence and common sense. We can all agree to that as a minimum requirement, no?
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon> Because they rarely demonstrate why they have it
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon> Yeah i agree zt
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon> And you need to be a unifying rather than attacking and dividing presence in the chat
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Phwnemon> Even if those users are fun, they're terrible role models
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> Then moving up, what addendum to the minimum should be to get voice.
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Zt> ??
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Birkal> I think everyone should believe in themselves
[01/30/13 | 23:28] <Birkal> :<
[01/30/13 | 23:29] <Phwnemon> One thing i don't want - And i wish i'd used different language in my post
[01/30/13 | 23:29] <DetroitLolcat> you can edit the post...
[01/30/13 | 23:30] <Phwnemon> Is for someone to think a voiced user is a better contributor than themselves
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[01/30/13 | 23:30] <DetroitLolcat> then what should a newbie or regular user think of a voiced user?
[01/30/13 | 23:30] <Zt> Pwne - what about drivers/mods/higher?
[01/30/13 | 23:30] <Phwnemon> The only thing that separates voice from a good non-voice is the demeanor - voiced people are helpful and kind where non-voiced ones might be a riproarin asshole
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> ... You got me there Pwne. Keep going?
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <jas61292> I agree pwnemon, but I think that is better achieved by voicing MORE rather than less
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <Phwnemon> You can be a great contributor to chat, and have great ideas
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <Phwnemon> Think dusk
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> Think srk
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather> don't believe in yourself
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <DetroitLolcat> man I never see srk anymore :(
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather> believe in me
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <capefeather> because I believe in you
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <DetroitLolcat> believe in Big Brother
[01/30/13 | 23:31] <Zt> God of Vestfurs..
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon> But if you have a tendency to be a douchebag, you're not setting a good model for new users to emulate
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <DetroitLolcat> Big Brother will do the believing
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Zt> Okay.
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <jas61292> Nah cape, don't believe in yourself, and don't believe in the cape that believes in you. Believe in the you that believes in yourself.
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon> And even though you may be a better contributor than some voiced users, you don't get voice because you are a dick
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon> And that's ok
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Zt> So voiced users should be... helpful and moderate in demeanor. Accurate enough summary?
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <capefeather> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:32] <Phwnemon> Yes
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[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon> And active
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> That's what separates voice from regular contributors.
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon> Yep
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> Okay, I'm convinced.
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat> okay birkal
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> Moving on up - Hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat> we're at a consensus.
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat> close the PR, please!
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Phwnemon> Lol
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> DLC - I ain't done yet.
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <DetroitLolcat> o_O
[01/30/13 | 23:33] <Zt> What pushes a voice up to Hops?
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[01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon> Hop is a voice who does have the good ideas
[01/30/13 | 23:34] <DetroitLolcat> Hops are a position of authority rather than respect, so some leadership quality needs to be in there.
[01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon> Who is intelligent in debates
[01/30/13 | 23:34] <Phwnemon> Who contributes to CAP well
[01/30/13 | 23:35] <Phwnemon> And who's the role model we want from voice
[01/30/13 | 23:35] <DetroitLolcat> I would relate hops to project mods on the forums
[01/30/13 | 23:35] <Zt> Backtrack a bit, Pwne - you're saying a voice does not necessarily needs "good ideas"?
[01/30/13 | 23:35] <Phwnemon> Voice is what you get for social chatter
[01/30/13 | 23:35] <Zt> Ah I see.
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <DetroitLolcat> pwnemon, I fail to see the difference between your definition of voice and of hops
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon> You don't necessarily need to be good with the actual hard-core capping
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon> For example yilx
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Zt> Hops is what you get from good competitive discussion in the chat.
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon> He's a great guy and a good role model
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon> But he never participates in these kind of debates
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Zt> Vary riksy to him.
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <DetroitLolcat> Hops should also have to be trusted with authority
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[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Steamroll> what about aops
[01/30/13 | 23:36] <Phwnemon> Hops you need to actually contribute to this shit
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <jas61292> I don't think you necessarily need to be involved with competitive stuff, but just with the project itself
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat> we'll probably get to aops once we're done definiing hops
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat> I disagree with that.
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <Zt> To be able to lead the discussions, at least partially. That's hops, agreed?
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon> If you mean
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon> Current prc and cap debates
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[01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon> Then that's what i meant
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <DetroitLolcat> Hops should have to be knowledgable of every facet of the CAP project in my opinion, as they are responsible in part for moderating the chat
[01/30/13 | 23:37] <Phwnemon> Just knowing cap history is a vops thing
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[01/30/13 | 23:38] <Zt> ^ @ DLC, except that it might not need be in-depth.
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[01/30/13 | 23:38] <jas61292> I mean, it should be about what goes on here. If someone is great in a ton of common discussions but is not the best competitive contributor, I have no problem. We need to remember this is about their chat ability.
[01/30/13 | 23:38] <Deck_Knight> Meganium Sulphate has never taken a marketing class, ever :(
[01/30/13 | 23:38] <Phwnemon> Basically while voice may set the standard for how to conduct yourself in social chatter, hops is the standard for CAP discussions
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> that a familar sounding name
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <DetroitLolcat> Right, I don't mean that this person needs to have every nuance and quirk of the CAP project stored neatly in their memory banks, but they should have *significant* knowledge of every part of CAP
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> has in
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Zt> For example, you can't possibly have to remember BSR off-hand just to get Hops, but you do need to be able to explain and pull up a link, right DLC?
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> i remember bad things from that name
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Zt> I think Pwne can agree to that too, right?
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Phwnemon> ...that's what i thought vops were
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <DetroitLolcat> yeah DK MeSO4 doesn't have the best app...
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Steamroll> the only person I expect to know BSR on command
[01/30/13 | 23:39] <Steamroll> is DjD
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon> It is amusing though you gotta admir
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon> T
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <DetroitLolcat> I agree Zt
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> i remember someone tryed to summit a literal flaming poo for B/W cap 3
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> for art
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <DetroitLolcat> Honestly, I suggest very high standards for hops in #cap
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Steamroll> I remember that
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Zt> Okay, Pwne - why do you think that requirement is a must for even vops?
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon> I think that's what vops are zt
[01/30/13 | 23:40] <Phwnemon> Because if you can't pull up a link i can't imagine you being too helpful
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[01/30/13 | 23:41] <jas61292> Basicially what I am saying is that there are definitely people (artists for example) who I think are excellent examples of what chat here should be and I wouldn't mind seeing as HOps who are not that fluent in all the competitive stuff. Understand it sure, but I don't think we should require much more
[01/30/13 | 23:41] <DetroitLolcat> being able to recognize past links and citing them is a pretty advanced skill for IRC
[01/30/13 | 23:41] <Zt> ^
[01/30/13 | 23:41] <Phwnemon> Hops i think should be as or almost as competent as vops in social chatter
[01/30/13 | 23:41] <Zt> There are some links, after all, that are obscure enough to search - take the Defensive Typing thread, for example.
[01/30/13 | 23:41] <Phwnemon> But also have the ability to hold their own in more serious discussion
[01/30/13 | 23:42] <Yilx> i still think toxican should have been mollluks
[01/30/13 | 23:42] <DetroitLolcat> I mean, with the speed that some #cap discussions go, if you can think of a germane link, find it, and bring it into the chat, you really know your shit lol
[01/30/13 | 23:42] <Zt> To be able to hold their own, Pwne - I think it comes from knowing enough about the whole CAP process.
[01/30/13 | 23:42] <DetroitLolcat> Hops should be able to do much more than hold their own in discussions IMO
[01/30/13 | 23:42] <Phwnemon> Do you think my definition of hop should be bumped up to aop?
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Pwne - maybe.
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <DetroitLolcat> Hops should also be able to correct and, if necessary, punish the behavior of users.
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon> Detroitlolcat i mean people who could engage in this policy debate, or a debate about stat spreads, or just social chatter
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> I think you are all
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> nuts
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:43] * ChanServ sets mode +a #cap Birkal
[01/30/13 | 23:43] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Birkal
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon> And are useful in chat
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx> i think we should introduce a new kind of op
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx> "rops"
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Phwnemon> But maybe that should be aops
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Birkal - yeah, we take this too seriously.
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx> which stands for "riksy operators"
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> Real Operators
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> oh risky
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Yilx> y/y
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <DetroitLolcat> "flops"- bad users
[01/30/13 | 23:43] <Zt> Okay, get back on topic lol
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <jas61292> While I hate naming names, I think a good example of what I was trying to say before would be paintseagull. Competitive stuff may not be her forte, but she understands it well enough to be part of discussions, and is generally a great chat presence.
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> I am more of a mop than a sop
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon> Someone give me a flops badge
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto> "mops"
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto> the users that have to clean up the messes
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> I clean up after Deck Knight makes messes ;__;
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Yilx> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> ;)
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <DetroitLolcat> ^_^
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Fusxfaranto> ;)
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> oh he's not responding
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon> I still would say that that's exactly what we were saying about voice
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> that's no fun :(
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Deck_Knight> Pfft. The only thing I've ever made messes of are things that deserved it.
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Phwnemon> Maybe just very distinguished voices are hops?
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> hahaha
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Deck_Knight> Example: tennisace's power trip
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <Birkal> that is true
[01/30/13 | 23:44] <DetroitLolcat> heh
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Birkal> I like to think that some CAP members have anti-thesis members
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> Not just that, Pwne - the voices must prove that they can recognize and correct improper behaviour in the chat, too.
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Birkal> and I always think of deck and tennis as that
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Deck_Knight> Example: Pretty much every pushback I've ever done on policy threads.
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat> hmm
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> And are able to stand up to it, even against the likes of Birkal.
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat> I'm not sure about that zt
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Phwnemon> Zt are you talking about vops or hops
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Deck_Knight> Though I probably shouldn't have encouraged EVO so much
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <DetroitLolcat> I think that's more of what hops should have to do
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Zt> Hops requirement.
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Yilx> we could have "drops" for r_d and bmb and such :(
[01/30/13 | 23:45] <Phwnemon> Yeah ok then
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat> okay yeah
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> :<
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Deck_Knight> But that was before Birkal's time and a priori he cannot claim to have fixed it.
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[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> I read about it
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> ;__;
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> I was BASICALLY there
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> Ok I do have to make one comment about this whole #cap status stuff
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Deck_Knight> The Dusk thing got out of hand, but that was a massive downward spirial and invariably I ended up breaking it.
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat> heh yilx
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat> that was funny!
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> if any form of this allows for "the mollux night" to not occur
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <Birkal> then we have screwed up
[01/30/13 | 23:46] <DetroitLolcat> "the mollux night"?
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <jas61292> Mollux night?
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <DetroitLolcat> is that Drought War 2012?
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon> Hops need to show that they understand what is acceptable and not in chat and can correct the mistakes; hops need to have a good all-around knowledge of the history and present of cap, hops have to be a unifying presence in chat as opposed to a divisive one
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon> ANTIGRAVITY BOOBS
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal> pwnemon knows what I am talking about
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Birkal> yep
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Zt> So chat presence and common sense = vops, behaviour upholder + process knowledge = hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon> yep
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Phwnemon> Everyone like those?
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Zt> aops must then have a VERY GOOD SENSE of humour.
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[01/30/13 | 23:47] <Deck_Knight> Also I do not know why Birkal was razzing me.
[01/30/13 | 23:47] <DetroitLolcat> so should hops, for that matter.
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight> EXCEPT THAT HE IS DRUNK WITH POWER!
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Zt> In order to reapply antigravity mammaries.
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal> YAHARR
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal> MUTINY
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal> IT SEEMS
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat> Hops need to be able to determine whether or not comments are made in jest or actual punishable offenses
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Phwnemon> Aops would be people who can do all that hops can and are also actively engaged in the CAP process
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight> I like female human mammaries that gravitate into the possession of my hands and/or mouth.
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight> That is all.
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Phwnemon> Yeah thats a good point dlc
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal> CAP5 will be a bird-mon or otherwise I am banning everyone from this chat
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Birkal> :|
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat> shit
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Zt> Agreeing with Pwne and DLC there.
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> sure
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <DetroitLolcat> we better do what this guy says
[01/30/13 | 23:48] <Deck_Knight> Wyverii already has art for that Birkal
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal> caw
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> Concept: burd
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> i'll make it flying 121 speed with 125 special attack
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> Justification: i like birds
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal> hahaha deck I love you
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal> 22:48 Deck_Knight EXCEPT THAT HE IS DRUNK WITH POWER!
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal> and then when I'm drunk with power your response is
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kyosuke_Nanbu> and regen
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Birkal> "wyverii has art for that"
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <DetroitLolcat> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> Lol
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <DetroitLolcat> is kadew on?
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Kadew> yes
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Zt> Though I rather think Hops must still speak out against all form of inappropriate behaviour, be it in jest or in plain stupidity.
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> No i dont think oj
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> Oh
[01/30/13 | 23:49] <Phwnemon> Disagreed zt
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew> If I am online I am usually lurking paying attention
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat> you should totally do a drawing of birkal's avatar drunk with power :D
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> When we're in a silly mood, silliness is fine
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> no don't do that
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> I like my current avatar too much to change it
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> :<
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> Don't hate the mollux night
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew> the bird, the rotom, or that wierd orange guy?
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Deck_Knight> I consider all contingencies. Then I eradicate about half of them and blame them on tennisace.
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Zt> My reason for that being I envision Aops to override hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> Birkal I LOVE YOSHIS ISLAND
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> OK
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat> Doesn't matter to me :D
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Kadew> or perhaps a wierd orange bird rotom (rotom-s)?
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> yoshi's island is a fantastic game
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat> o_O
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy> the way i see it is
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy> there's a line
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Birkal> pwnemon you see the trailer for yoshi yarn?
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> aops shouldnt override hops they should work with them lol
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Zt> So that when hops go "okay, stop that", aops can do "nah, we're just having fun, take it easy"
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <SgtWoodsy> most of you don't cross it but some of you cross the line embarassingly regularly
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <DetroitLolcat> Honesly, I just see Aops as the best of the hops
[01/30/13 | 23:50] <Phwnemon> No birkal kirby yarn saddened me
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal> WHAT
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal> NO YOU NEED TO SEE THIS
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> i'm not feeling yarn yoshi
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> if it was like
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> HD yoshi's island
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> graphically
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <DetroitLolcat> when a hop proves to have done a great job moderating the chat for an extended period of time, they can move on to aop
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> then it would be incredible
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon> Yoshis island was the sex ok
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <SgtWoodsy> but why yarn
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJMjQAJjio
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal> watch
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon> Dlc i'd propose this
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <DetroitLolcat> also, are there any differences in power between hops and aops?
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Birkal> watch watch watch
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Zt> I can agree to that DLC.
[01/30/13 | 23:51] <Phwnemon> Aops can promote to voice
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> Owait.
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew> oh my goodness that yarn yoshi looks adorable
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew> I need it
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Birkal> I KNOW RIGHT
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> So aops must be able to recognize potential voice users too?
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <DetroitLolcat> well, then the distinction between who deserves aop and hop should have to do with that...
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Kadew> NEEED IT
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <DetroitLolcat> Aops should have to be very, very well integrated into the community
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Zt> How do we subjectively measure that criterion?
[01/30/13 | 23:52] <Phwnemon> I think: an aop is a hop that also has demonstrated above average competency in CAP and PRC serious discussions, while meeting reqs for hop as well
[01/30/13 | 23:53] <DetroitLolcat> the same way we subjectively measure every other criterion?
[01/30/13 | 23:53] <Zt> DLC - guess no other way but that.
[01/30/13 | 23:53] <SgtWoodsy> 'are they trying to deliberately cause trouble and do they chip into a conversation every once in a while'
[01/30/13 | 23:53] <Phwnemon> What do you guys think about my idea of aop
[01/30/13 | 23:54] <Phwnemon> I really think we need higher auth to set the model for how to conduct yourself seriously
[01/30/13 | 23:54] <Phwnemon> (Also the only person who should be promoting is sop+ so we dont need to worry about that)
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> Woody would make a half-decent aops.... Owait, already a hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx> whats aops stand for
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy> @
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx> aeroplaneo perator
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Yilx> oh
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> Admin operator
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> While hops need to be 100% perfectly acquainted with the rules and processes of CAP, aops should have the same level of proficiency when it comes to running the chat
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> and throw in some "leading discussion" stuff to make it a little less subjective.
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> Woody makes a great hop imo
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> ^
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> as he identifies bad behavior, warns/punishes appropriately, etc.
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Phwnemon> For example, birkal can flip between discussing "mollux night" and bsr ratings and policy so he'd be fit for aop
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> yep
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Birkal> aww
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Birkal> :>
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Phwnemon> Not that you couldn't be a sop js~
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy> wow
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <SgtWoodsy> he's trying to demote you
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <DetroitLolcat> we just havent gotten to sops yet!
[01/30/13 | 23:55] <Zt> lol
[01/30/13 | 23:56] <Phwnemon> So an aop is a person who meets qualifications for hop and can go toe-to-toe with the best of them when it comes to actual CAP debate
[01/30/13 | 23:56] <Zt> *Can be better than them.
[01/30/13 | 23:56] <DetroitLolcat> I like that definition, though I have trouble making the distinction between hop and aop
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[01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon> Best of them being a turn of phrase
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon> Not referring to hops
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <Zt> Don't forget that an aops must be able to recognize potential vops and able to promote them too.
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <jas61292> I kind of disagree. I think competence in all discussion is necessary, but I don't think they need to be amazing debaters.
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <DetroitLolcat> I mean, I just see aops being more experienced hops.
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <Phwnemon> Nope, promotions are left to sops
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <DetroitLolcat> can't aops promote to voice?
[01/30/13 | 23:57] <Steamroll> on default chans yes
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon> Yes but that doesn't mean we need to let them
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll> considering doug runs this shit
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <DetroitLolcat> is this a default chain?
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292> I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll> he probably modded it so only sop+ can promote
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Yilx> createjustapokemon
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Steamroll> like what pokemon has
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon> Jas can kickban me he never will
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <DetroitLolcat> <-- knows very little about IRC btw
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292> try me
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <jas61292> :P
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Zt> <jas61292> I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Zt> Agreed
[01/30/13 | 23:58] <Phwnemon> My point being just because you have power doesnt mean you use it
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> [23:58:55] <Zt> <jas61292> I think AOps should be on the lookout for voices, but I do think that they should apeal to SOps before doing so
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> [23:58:57] <Zt> Agreed
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon> Yes only sops can promote
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> so basically
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> PS system
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat> then there isn't a difference between hops and aops from a purely technical standpoint.
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> of finding vops
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <jas61292> pretty much
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon> Jas, my goal here is for aops to set the standard of how to conduct yourself in a real debate
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat> I think one way of looking at this is
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> logical falicies
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Steamroll> alwayys work
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <DetroitLolcat> Aops are to hops as voices are to regular users
[01/30/13 | 23:59] <Phwnemon> Instead of the more social chatter of hops and vops
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon> I don't think so, lolcat
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <Zt> Since there's no difference between power levels, aops are better competitors than hops in a nutshell?
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon> Unless you're referring to power wise
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <jas61292> debate is only part of what happens here though. I don't think we should value debate over discussion. I think general competence is what is needed, not specific skill
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <SgtWoodsy> no there are differences between hops and aops
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <DetroitLolcat> well, debate is much more difficult than discussion
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon> Jas, hops are a perfectly good role model of non-serious discussion
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <DetroitLolcat> and CAP is just as debate based as it is discussion based, if not more so
[01/31/13 | 00:00] <Phwnemon> And semi-serious discussion
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon> But in the end, this channel is about debate
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon> Debate about the latest cap
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon> About whether to yea or nay QD on aurum
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <DetroitLolcat> We have plenty of fun discussions such as "beedrill is scarier than pinsir", but #cap exists as a way to discuss the CAP project in real time
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <Phwnemon> What dlc said
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <DetroitLolcat> and though both are important to CAP culture, the latter is more important.
[01/31/13 | 00:01] <Yilx> vary riksy
[01/31/13 | 00:02] <jas61292> I agree. I'm just saying that leadership is about more than simply debate
[01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon> Oh i agree but only sops have real "leadership" imo
[01/31/13 | 00:02] <Zt> "Being able to listen is better than just being able to speak"?
[01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon> Everyone else is mostly a role model
[01/31/13 | 00:02] <Phwnemon> Some who can kick but mostly a role model
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon> Only sops can delegate for example
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon> W
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat> There is one other thing, though
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon> And only sops can set the channel
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat> Aops can kick and discipline hops, right?
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon> Tone for a channel*
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <Phwnemon> Yes lolcat but it should never happen
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <DetroitLolcat> theoretically it shouldn't.
[01/31/13 | 00:03] <jas61292> disciple in general should not be an issue
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon> If they're getting disciplined they probably shouldnt be hops lol
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon> Discipline is hardly on the table
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <Zt> Not sholdn't Pwne - wouldn't in the first place.
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <DetroitLolcat> Yes, that's why I see aops as a kind of "oversight committee"
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <jas61292> In my time as HOp I have done actual OP actions (other than a joke kick) twice.
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <DetroitLolcat> Aops can make sure hops and the like are doing their jobs.
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon> Again i think that should mostly be the role of the sop
[01/31/13 | 00:04] <Phwnemon> Sops are true leaders, aops are just true role models
[01/31/13 | 00:05] <Zt> But I think Aops should be given a role in leading as observation for pormotion.
[01/31/13 | 00:05] <DetroitLolcat> In terms of quantity of users, how many sops and aops will there be?
[01/31/13 | 00:05] <Zt> Much like projmods are given to test a user before forum mods.
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat> As if there are few sops, then aops will have to take on the role of leader when there are no sops on
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <Zt> ^
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <Phwnemon> I think probably two or three sops, two or three aops, three or four hops, around 5-10 voice?
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat> and given the small size of our IRC community, for sop to be a truly meaningful rank, there can't be more than 2-3 of them.
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat> probably 3 tbh.
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <Phwnemon> Oh but if we have the mods all be sops which i still find perfectly fair, we only really need one other sop
[01/31/13 | 00:06] <DetroitLolcat> eh, specifics can wait.
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon> If any
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat> how many mods are there?
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon> Six
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <Zt> Numbers isn't that great a factor imo - not when we're all subjectively measuring what position a user should be.
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292> ^^^
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <Phwnemon> Zt has a point
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat> yes he does...
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292> if we are putting numbers on levels we are doing it wrong
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <jas61292> (other than QOp)
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat> right... (there are 6 cap mods???)
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <DetroitLolcat> I thought there were like 4
[01/31/13 | 00:07] <Birkal> yes
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Zt> So can we agree that aops to sops are similar to how projmods are to forum mods?
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat> hmm
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon> No
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <jas61292> And I am still personally against the whole auto SOp for mods. Nothing against them, but it sends the wrong idea, imo
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat> No
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Zt> Argh :(
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat> I see hops:aops as projmods:mods
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon> Because a) thats not how pmods even work
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll> that was like #pokemon with
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll> promoting tiering leaders to sops
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <DetroitLolcat> not that I know how project mods work in all honesty.
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Phwnemon> And b) aops are still just role models, but sops are real leaders
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll> tried to spark discussion
[01/31/13 | 00:08] <Steamroll> and instead it just killed overall activity
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon> Like, you could sit at aops for your entire life
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat> why did it kill overall activity btw?
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon> If you were a great contributor but bad at really /leading.
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon> /
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Zt> So can I say Sops are for people like R_D when he's sober?
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Phwnemon> Sops is people who we trust to run the channel
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat> no, R_D is drops remember?
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <Zt> Emphasis on "sober".
[01/31/13 | 00:09] <DetroitLolcat> :P
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> [00:09:20] <DetroitLolcat> why did it kill overall activity btw?
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> because none of the sops ever talked
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Kadew> sops are sober operators?
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon> Who we defer to their judgment on who's a good candidate for promotion, discipline, and direction
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Zt> Drunk ops is a fitting title, too.
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <DetroitLolcat> oh shit kadew
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> basically did a #smogon
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <DetroitLolcat> i think you're on to something!
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon> Rd was no fun sober tho
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Birkal> man I liked R_D better when he was drunk
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> a lot of people sitting around with status
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Birkal> to be honest
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon> Same birj
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> intimidated people
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Zt> Yeah, Kadew nailed it spot-on.
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Phwnemon> Birk
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> and died
[01/31/13 | 00:10] <Steamroll> we need eops
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll> for enebriated operators
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon> Jellicent?
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat> *inebriated iirc
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Fusxfaranto> *inebriated
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll> o
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat> iops
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Fusxfaranto> :[
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll> ihops
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon> Lol
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat> ^^^
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll> well hops can work
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Steamroll> hammered operators
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon> Hammered
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat> man i haven't been to ihop in forever
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <jas61292> Status should really be based on who doees stuff here. I know all mods talk some, and are probably all HOp+ quality (and should be so they can update the topic), but I don't think they are all what we want as SOps
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <Phwnemon> Ninjas
[01/31/13 | 00:11] <DetroitLolcat> those are sooooo goooooo pancakes
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat> but if i am ever a hop there will be no pancakes
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat> ONLY BANCAKES
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon> I agree jas
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon> Because to be a sop you really need to be engaged in the channel's activities
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <DetroitLolcat> I agree as well jas
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <Phwnemon> And know what's going down
[01/31/13 | 00:12] <Zt> Okay, recap on aops, if anyone is less hungry than I am? (hunger wears my mind out)
[01/31/13 | 00:13] <Phwnemon> Aops are the great role models - they contribute well in social chatter and serious chatter and they're not dicks
[01/31/13 | 00:14] <Zt> Pretty much meaning they're hops who are better than most hops on competitive discussion and debates?
[01/31/13 | 00:14] <Phwnemon> Yep
[01/31/13 | 00:14] <Phwnemon> And sops - do we all agree that they're active, have a firm grasp on the personalities they're dealing with in the channel, are trusted and available?
[01/31/13 | 00:14] <DetroitLolcat> fine by me :D
[01/31/13 | 00:14] <DetroitLolcat> and now we get to qops
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat> to be a qop
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon> Doug
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon> That was easy
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat> you have to know Doug's password
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Zt> Done.
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon> Yes
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll> watch doug's qop password be like
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <jas61292> You have to be Doug. (Or tennis, technically)
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll> fidgit
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Birkal> you know the password is Doug, right?
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Steamroll> or dogjustdog
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Birkal> Doug. Just Doug.
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat> lol
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <jas61292> lol
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <DetroitLolcat> it's probably "password"
[01/31/13 | 00:15] <Phwnemon> Can someone with big scrollback on their irc client post this up to the thread with a synopsis?
[01/31/13 | 00:16] * Oglemi (~Oglemi@synIRC-436D3FAF.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) has joined #cap
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Zt> Pwne - back to sops, I just wanna say "be always available as possible"
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll> tl;dr this chat is weird as fuck
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Zt> Usually this would warrant a few sops to cover all timezones, but whatever.
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll> oh btw
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll> I want a tl;dr requirement
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll> for every post above
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <jas61292> lol
[01/31/13 | 00:16] <Steamroll> 750 words
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <Zt> Steam - you probably should read X-Act's attitude on tl'dr.
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat> now that bmb's gone
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat> that's reasonable
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <Zt> I laughed when I read that OP.
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat> wait so is someone going to c+v the log of this chat?
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll> I did read x-acts policy on it
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll> DLC I'm not lol
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <DetroitLolcat> yeah I don't know how
[01/31/13 | 00:17] <Steamroll> an I can scroll back to the time I joined this chan tonight
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <Zt> Not large enough scrollback, so off to lunch.
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <Zt> poof
[01/31/13 | 00:18] * Zt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat> bye
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat> man
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat> after that long discussion
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <DetroitLolcat> @chanstats
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <ChanStat> (ChanStats): Channel statistics for #cap can be found by going to http://chanstat.net/stats/synirc/%23cap
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <Phwnemon> Voice - helpful and friendly, active enough. Hops - voice with a good grasp on the history and status of the cap project. Aops - hops who are also models of behavior in serious debates. Sops - true leaders. All the reqs of an aop, Available and trusted, with charisma and a good idea of what's happening in the channel and a firm grasp of the personalities they're working with
[01/31/13 | 00:18] <Phwnemon> Agreed?
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <jas61292> I have 50 thousand lines of scrollback, so I guess I could do it, but I already posted twice in the short thread. Someone else should.
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Fusxfaranto> sounds good to me
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat> Gine.
[01/31/13 | 00:19] * RBG has quit (Quit: )
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat> *Fine
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll> lol jax
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll> *jas
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll> I have about
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Steamroll> 650000 lines of pokemon chat
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <Phwnemon> Dlc unfortunately that only updates so often, still not updated for this chat yet
[01/31/13 | 00:19] <DetroitLolcat> jas could you take the log and PM it to pwnemon me and zt and anyone else?
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll> takes five minutes to load it
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <DetroitLolcat> oh nvm
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll> also I'm going to bed
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <Steamroll> night
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <DetroitLolcat> goodnight :D
[01/31/13 | 00:20] * Steamroll has quit (Quit: )
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <Phwnemon> I think there's a character limit on pm/
[01/31/13 | 00:20] <Phwnemon> He could pb it though
[01/31/13 | 00:21] <Phwnemon> Well, we worked that out and nobody died in the process o/
[01/31/13 | 00:21] <DetroitLolcat> then he can still save the log for posterity/future reference right?
[01/31/13 | 00:22] <jas61292> also, I don't know why I bother having 50000 lines of scrollback its a bitch to c+p from, and I have a log that is much easier to use that goes back til last april
[01/31/13 | 00:22] <DetroitLolcat> lol