1. Sep 22 19:36:25 * RayJay (RayJay@synIRC-529E4D6D.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #council
  2. Sep 22 19:36:26 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council RayJay
  3. Sep 22 19:36:26 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to RayJay
  4. Sep 22 19:37:03 <RayJay> hi
  5. Sep 22 19:37:07 <RayJay> em
  6. Sep 22 19:37:08 <RayJay> iss
  7. Sep 22 19:37:09 <RayJay> prem
  8. Sep 22 19:37:10 <RayJay> comatt
  9. Sep 22 19:37:18 <RayJay> if you're ready, we can begin discussion.
  10. Sep 22 19:39:45 <comatt6> sure thing
  11. Sep 22 19:39:51 <comatt6> i still don't have sops
  12. Sep 22 19:39:52 <comatt6> w/e
  13. Sep 22 19:41:25 <RayJay> ok
  14. Sep 22 19:41:26 <RayJay> so
  15. Sep 22 19:41:26 <comatt6> ready if everyone else is
  16. Sep 22 19:41:35 <RayJay> let's start with drilbur
  17. Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6> can we start with drilbur? i'm still--
  18. Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6> ok
  19. Sep 22 19:41:43 <comatt6> rayjay knows me
  20. Sep 22 19:41:49 <RayJay> ...... / double sand rush
  21. Sep 22 19:42:01 <comatt6> double sand rush is powerful
  22. Sep 22 19:42:11 <comatt6> but can be played against properly
  23. Sep 22 19:42:33 <comatt6> but it's hard to find a team (IMO) that works well against double rush AND works against other teams in the meta
  24. Sep 22 19:43:11 <RayJay> see i disagree
  25. Sep 22 19:43:19 <comatt6> how so
  26. Sep 22 19:43:22 <elevator_music> hi
  27. Sep 22 19:43:22 <RayJay> tons of players are using Snover, who frankly stomps double rush even more than sand rush
  28. Sep 22 19:43:30 <elevator_music> ok i can come one sec
  29. Sep 22 19:43:30 <comatt6> well the problem with that is
  30. Sep 22 19:43:39 <comatt6> snover can't switch in directly
  31. Sep 22 19:43:43 <comatt6> because rock slide
  32. Sep 22 19:43:55 <RayJay> ok by that argument
  33. Sep 22 19:44:04 <comatt6> so it HAS to come in on eq or sd
  34. Sep 22 19:44:08 <comatt6> or revenge kill
  35. Sep 22 19:44:09 <RayJay> it's important to note that half your team can't come in on Snover
  36. Sep 22 19:44:11 <elevator_music> snover comes in on hippo
  37. Sep 22 19:44:28 <comatt6> this is true
  38. Sep 22 19:44:47 <comatt6> side note: if this is being recorded or whatever, v0x is a bitch.
  39. Sep 22 19:44:52 * elevator_music has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  40. Sep 22 19:45:02 * elevator_music (str@ng.pkmn.weak.pkmn.that.is.only.the.selfish.perception.of.people) has joined #council
  41. Sep 22 19:45:02 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council elevator_music
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  43. Sep 22 19:45:07 <RayJay> beyond snover, i struggle to see how double rush breaks through mienfoo 100% of the time
  44. Sep 22 19:45:16 <RayJay> and mienfoo is easily the most common poke
  45. Sep 22 19:45:19 <comatt6> what's the calc
  46. Sep 22 19:45:26 <comatt6> of a +2 sd sandshrew EQ
  47. Sep 22 19:45:33 <comatt6> +2 drilbur EQ is easy ohko
  48. Sep 22 19:45:38 <comatt6> unless i'm sadly mistaken
  49. Sep 22 19:45:47 <comatt6> assuming both have eviolite
  50. Sep 22 19:45:57 <RayJay> it does not ohko mienfoo
  51. Sep 22 19:46:04 <elevator_music> ok see my real problem with double rush
  52. Sep 22 19:46:13 <RayJay> unless i am also sadly mistaken
  53. Sep 22 19:46:13 <comatt6> hmm
  54. Sep 22 19:46:14 <elevator_music> is that you have to use only 3 pokemon to cover the rest of the metagame
  55. Sep 22 19:46:18 <comatt6> after rocks it's a ko
  56. Sep 22 19:46:26 <RayJay> uhm what calc are you using
  57. Sep 22 19:46:26 <comatt6> unless i'm thinking about a different spread
  58. Sep 22 19:46:27 <elevator_music> because hippo/drilbur/sandshrew all have the same like
  59. Sep 22 19:46:35 <comatt6> we're talking about a 0/196 right
  60. Sep 22 19:46:38 <elevator_music> handful of pokemon they can come in on, yknow?
  61. Sep 22 19:46:40 <comatt6> ray jay i
  62. Sep 22 19:46:48 <comatt6> *i'm not, i'm going off of past experience
  63. Sep 22 19:46:49 <comatt6> s
  64. Sep 22 19:46:52 <comatt6> which...all had rocks down
  65. Sep 22 19:46:55 <RayJay> because i've used my defensive mienfoo as essentially my sole drilbur / sandshrew counter and lost to double rush maybe once
  66. Sep 22 19:47:07 <comatt6> do you also use snover?
  67. Sep 22 19:47:15 <RayJay> no
  68. Sep 22 19:47:17 <comatt6> oh
  69. Sep 22 19:47:24 <comatt6> rayjay which calc are you using
  70. Sep 22 19:47:26 <comatt6> i need a reference
  71. Sep 22 19:47:35 <RayJay> you SHOULD be using masara
  72. Sep 22 19:47:39 <comatt6> ok
  73. Sep 22 19:47:47 <RayJay> my mienfoo is impish
  74. Sep 22 19:47:48 <RayJay> 156 hp
  75. Sep 22 19:47:52 <RayJay> 196 def
  76. Sep 22 19:47:54 <comatt6> oh impish 156/196
  77. Sep 22 19:47:55 <comatt6> i see
  78. Sep 22 19:47:59 <comatt6> that would prevent an OHKO
  79. Sep 22 19:48:03 <elevator_music> real niggas do calcs out by hand
  80. Sep 22 19:48:06 <comatt6> hahaha
  81. Sep 22 19:48:31 <comatt6> this being said, I'm NOT saying drilbur is broken
  82. Sep 22 19:48:37 <comatt6> I just want to throw this out there
  83. Sep 22 19:48:37 <RayJay> alright
  84. Sep 22 19:48:47 <RayJay> i mean i've heard the "arguments" for it being broken
  85. Sep 22 19:48:59 <RayJay> but i just have not seen a team comp with double rush that blows me away
  86. Sep 22 19:49:00 <comatt6> as have i
  87. Sep 22 19:49:05 <comatt6> word
  88. Sep 22 19:49:12 <comatt6> have you played heysup?
  89. Sep 22 19:49:31 <elevator_music> no because heysup doesnt really battle x.x
  90. Sep 22 19:49:37 <RayJay> heysup cant battle i thought
  91. Sep 22 19:49:51 <elevator_music> no he's good
  92. Sep 22 19:49:53 <comatt6> he claims to have gone 28-2 or some horse shit like that with a double rush
  93. Sep 22 19:50:03 <elevator_music> he just doesnt play lc much anymore
  94. Sep 22 19:50:04 <comatt6> I don't believe my double rush team can perform that well
  95. Sep 22 19:51:51 <RayJay> i mean i think it's pretty much understood at this point that drilbur is just frankly not broken by itself
  96. Sep 22 19:51:55 <comatt6> ^
  97. Sep 22 19:51:57 <comatt6> agreed.
  98. Sep 22 19:52:05 <RayJay> and sand rush is just balanced by the fact that it takes 3 team slots
  99. Sep 22 19:52:12 <RayJay> double rush, excuse me
  100. Sep 22 19:52:31 <comatt6> you are excused
  101. Sep 22 19:52:57 <RayJay> so do you two have any other notes on that?
  102. Sep 22 19:53:06 <comatt6> yeah kinda
  103. Sep 22 19:53:16 <comatt6> but it's just going to be a reiteration of what we've already said
  104. Sep 22 19:53:41 <RayJay> go ahead
  105. Sep 22 19:53:47 <comatt6> it's pretty much: without sand, drilbur is a support option with rapid spin; stealth rock; and mold breaker yes it beats koffing and bronzor but no one cares support isn't broken
  106. Sep 22 19:54:20 <elevator_music> iss is dumb
  107. Sep 22 19:54:25 <elevator_music> prem sucks penises
  108. Sep 22 19:54:30 <elevator_music> lol charmander
  109. Sep 22 19:54:39 <Charmander> sup
  110. Sep 22 19:55:01 <comatt6> with ONLY hippopotas as part of a sandstorm team, the only way drilbur can sweep is if it comes in lategame and manages to set up swords dance; however, players usually come prepared with 1-3 checks to drilbur so it cannot do that effectively
  111. Sep 22 19:55:23 <RayJay> yeah alright
  112. Sep 22 19:55:35 <RayJay> since no one else is here yet, i think we can probably talk about murkrow for a bit
  113. Sep 22 19:56:30 <comatt6> with Hippopotas AND sandshrew as a part of a sandstorm team, you are limited to the remaining slots and pretty much have to base the remaining half of the team to countering anti-sand/hail while your opponent may only need 1-2 pokemon to counter sand and can use 1-2 more pokemon to beat your counters and use the remaining mons to counter standard threats
  114. Sep 22 19:57:02 <comatt6> that's all i have on drilbur
  115. Sep 22 19:57:07 <Charmander> yeah
  116. Sep 22 19:57:11 <Charmander> basically three ground-types
  117. Sep 22 19:57:16 <Charmander> makes your team already kind of weak
  118. Sep 22 19:57:18 <Charmander> you'll need like
  119. Sep 22 19:57:21 <comatt6> Did everything I said make sense?
  120. Sep 22 19:57:22 <Charmander> slowpoke bronzor lileep
  121. Sep 22 19:57:23 <Charmander> or something
  122. Sep 22 19:57:31 <RayJay> yup @ comatt
  123. Sep 22 19:57:33 <comatt6> you pretty much NEED lileep and/or croagunk for water
  124. Sep 22 19:57:39 <comatt6> and then uhhh
  125. Sep 22 19:57:45 <comatt6> something for grass bronzor makes sense
  126. Sep 22 19:58:21 * Aerrow (~aerrow@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
  127. Sep 22 19:58:21 * ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
  128. Sep 22 19:58:21 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
  129. Sep 22 19:58:32 <RayJay> hi aerrow
  130. Sep 22 19:58:42 <RayJay> we just finished discussing drilbur with the parties present
  131. Sep 22 19:58:43 <comatt6> hey aerrow
  132. Sep 22 19:58:50 <RayJay> now we're gonna move on to murkrow
  133. Sep 22 19:58:51 <comatt6> lol you mean 2 members + charmander
  134. Sep 22 19:58:57 <comatt6> so pretty much 2.5 members
  135. Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay> no
  136. Sep 22 19:59:07 <Aerrow> alright
  137. Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay> me
  138. Sep 22 19:59:08 <RayJay> em
  139. Sep 22 19:59:08 <Aerrow> Save the logs
  140. Sep 22 19:59:08 <elevator_music> where is bloserajan?
  141. Sep 22 19:59:09 <Aerrow> All of it
  142. Sep 22 19:59:09 <RayJay> iss
  143. Sep 22 19:59:12 <RayJay> you
  144. Sep 22 19:59:13 <comatt6> em didn't really talk
  145. Sep 22 19:59:16 <comatt6> iss is here?
  146. Sep 22 19:59:18 <comatt6> prem is here?
  147. Sep 22 19:59:21 <RayJay> iss is in the channel
  148. Sep 22 19:59:23 <Aerrow> ALL OF IT
  149. Sep 22 19:59:27 <comatt6> ok
  150. Sep 22 19:59:29 <RayJay> yeah i am saving the logs
  151. Sep 22 19:59:29 <Aerrow> alright?
  152. Sep 22 19:59:39 <comatt6> can i make a quick shout out
  153. Sep 22 19:59:44 <comatt6> now that we're saving ALL the logs?
  154. Sep 22 19:59:46 <Charmander> wait aerrow if one of the permanent members has to quit i replace them right
  155. Sep 22 19:59:57 <Aerrow> yea
  156. Sep 22 20:00:00 <RayJay> yeah also charmander has the right to chime into this discussion
  157. Sep 22 20:00:00 <Charmander> ok cool
  158. Sep 22 20:00:08 <comatt6> that's fair
  159. Sep 22 20:00:12 <comatt6> charmander is cool
  160. Sep 22 20:00:15 <elevator_music> charmander sux 8===D
  161. Sep 22 20:00:15 <Aerrow> yes obv meander has ther right
  162. Sep 22 20:00:26 <comatt6> charmander is minimember?
  163. Sep 22 20:00:28 <RayJay> em
  164. Sep 22 20:00:33 <RayJay> why did you show up to this while high
  165. Sep 22 20:00:38 <RayJay> this is supposed to be serious
  166. Sep 22 20:00:39 <RayJay> 9.9
  167. Sep 22 20:00:59 <elevator_music> haha i'll be on my best behavior
  168. Sep 22 20:01:04 <RayJay> so murkrow
  169. Sep 22 20:01:05 <Aerrow> everyone stfu and talk serious
  170. Sep 22 20:01:06 <RayJay> em start us off
  171. Sep 22 20:01:09 <RayJay> what do you think
  172. Sep 22 20:01:10 <Charmander> lol
  173. Sep 22 20:01:14 <Charmander> I love em when hes high
  174. Sep 22 20:01:18 <elevator_music> i posted my opinion in the thread
  175. Sep 22 20:01:23 <elevator_music> (and im actually not high lol)
  176. Sep 22 20:01:24 <elevator_music> but
  177. Sep 22 20:01:27 <Charmander> ok
  178. Sep 22 20:01:31 <Charmander> I love em when he acts high*
  179. Sep 22 20:01:34 * blarajan (~blarajan@synIRC-998F151F.wireless.umd.edu) has joined #council
  180. Sep 22 20:01:34 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council blarajan
  181. Sep 22 20:01:34 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to blarajan
  182. Sep 22 20:01:37 <elevator_music> about time
  183. Sep 22 20:01:38 <Aerrow> I'll be listening for the most part btw
  184. Sep 22 20:01:40 <comatt6> lol
  185. Sep 22 20:01:47 <Charmander> look what the cat dragged in........
  186. Sep 22 20:01:49 <blarajan> yo
  187. Sep 22 20:01:54 <RayJay> blarajan
  188. Sep 22 20:01:56 <comatt6> hi blara!
  189. Sep 22 20:01:57 <RayJay> before
  190. Sep 22 20:02:03 <RayJay> we go on to murkrow
  191. Sep 22 20:02:04 <comatt6> btw aerrow could i get sops on this channel
  192. Sep 22 20:02:06 <RayJay> thoughts on drilbur and double rush
  193. Sep 22 20:02:08 <comatt6> i feel inadequate
  194. Sep 22 20:03:42 <RayJay> blarajan answer the questionb
  195. Sep 22 20:03:44 <RayJay> question
  196. Sep 22 20:03:50 <Charmander> i'll give my opinion
  197. Sep 22 20:03:51 <blarajan> sorry my laptop was being silly
  198. Sep 22 20:03:57 <blarajan> uhhh
  199. Sep 22 20:04:00 <Charmander> like you said it gives you three snover weak mons
  200. Sep 22 20:04:09 <Charmander> its can wreck non snover teams or non sand teams
  201. Sep 22 20:04:15 <Charmander> but if you dont have a check you deserve to lose anyway
  202. Sep 22 20:04:28 <elevator_music> the problem with double rush isnt not having a check
  203. Sep 22 20:04:30 <elevator_music> lol
  204. Sep 22 20:04:38 <Charmander> its centralizing but
  205. Sep 22 20:04:40 <elevator_music> the point of double rush is to try and win even though you do have a check
  206. Sep 22 20:04:41 <blarajan> double rush requires you to use three mono ground type pokemon on the same team
  207. Sep 22 20:04:45 <Charmander> centralization isnt ground to be banned
  208. Sep 22 20:04:50 <Charmander> being plan broken is
  209. Sep 22 20:04:54 <Charmander> and sandrush is pretty far from that
  210. Sep 22 20:04:56 <elevator_music> lol
  211. Sep 22 20:05:00 <Charmander> plain*
  212. Sep 22 20:05:08 <Charmander> also can missy be a suspect
  213. Sep 22 20:05:16 <elevator_music> no
  214. Sep 22 20:05:16 <Charmander> or are we past that stage
  215. Sep 22 20:05:19 <blarajan> which is pretty problematic in a tier like little cup
  216. Sep 22 20:05:19 <Charmander> fine
  217. Sep 22 20:05:26 <RayJay> lol we are going to vote tonight charmander
  218. Sep 22 20:06:05 <comatt6> missy isn't broken ><
  219. Sep 22 20:06:13 <comatt6> we've gotten a tad bit off topic haven't we
  220. Sep 22 20:06:25 <Charmander> yeah
  221. Sep 22 20:06:27 <Charmander> im j/s
  222. Sep 22 20:06:27 <RayJay> ok blarajan any other thoughts?
  223. Sep 22 20:06:28 <Charmander> but go on
  224. Sep 22 20:06:41 <blarajan> synergetic issues like that really matter
  225. Sep 22 20:06:57 <blarajan> likewise honestly if you check one of them you check both
  226. Sep 22 20:07:35 <RayJay> what is your response to the potential naysayers that say sandshrew wears down drilbur's checks?
  227. Sep 22 20:08:36 <blarajan> who..cares? that's what playing pokemon does? you use things to wear down checks?
  228. Sep 22 20:08:44 <RayJay> makes sense
  229. Sep 22 20:08:51 <RayJay> alright so i think we're all pretty much in agreement there
  230. Sep 22 20:09:12 <RayJay> i have to go afk for a bit, so we'll either vote later tonight or via pm
  231. Sep 22 20:09:23 <RayJay> in the meantime, discuss murkrow
  232. Sep 22 20:09:27 * RayJay is now known as AwayJay
  233. Sep 22 20:09:33 <blarajan> you're the one that scheduled this...
  234. Sep 22 20:09:36 <elevator_music> lol
  235. Sep 22 20:09:52 <AwayJay> i had to schedule a time that worked best for the council as a whole
  236. Sep 22 20:10:06 <AwayJay> which is more than just me
  237. Sep 22 20:10:10 <comatt6> lol
  238. Sep 22 20:10:12 * MarceloDK (~MarceloDK@BBC2B918.98FA4916.E778BCE0.IP) has joined #council
  239. Sep 22 20:10:13 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council MarceloDK
  240. Sep 22 20:10:13 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to MarceloDK
  241. Sep 22 20:10:15 <comatt6> look at rayjay
  242. Sep 22 20:10:19 <comatt6> being the pragmatic man
  243. Sep 22 20:10:22 <comatt6> hey marcelo
  244. Sep 22 20:10:25 <comatt6> thoughts on: Drilbur
  245. Sep 22 20:10:27 <MarceloDK> hi
  246. Sep 22 20:10:29 <MarceloDK> n_n
  247. Sep 22 20:10:31 <comatt6> by itself / part of SS / double rush
  248. Sep 22 20:11:21 <MarceloDK> i'm like 35/4 on ps with an alt
  249. Sep 22 20:11:32 <comatt6> cool
  250. Sep 22 20:11:34 <MarceloDK> 3 loses to dc or a lot of hax
  251. Sep 22 20:11:43 <MarceloDK> and 1 to oposing sand team
  252. Sep 22 20:11:57 <MarceloDK> ~using a double rush team~
  253. Sep 22 20:12:00 <blarajan> why do we care about thaht?
  254. Sep 22 20:12:03 <blarajan> that*
  255. Sep 22 20:12:10 <elevator_music> loladder
  256. Sep 22 20:12:18 <blarajan> i've gone 35-0 on the ru ladder using electivire and metang
  257. Sep 22 20:12:24 <MarceloDK> hm k
  258. Sep 22 20:12:25 <blarajan> the ladder means nothing
  259. Sep 22 20:12:29 <blarajan> lc ladder means even less
  260. Sep 22 20:12:36 <blarajan> people think iss is a top player
  261. Sep 22 20:12:40 <blarajan> you know tath's sad
  262. Sep 22 20:13:02 <elevator_music> lol
  263. Sep 22 20:13:24 <comatt6> lol
  264. Sep 22 20:13:47 <comatt6> blara so blunt
  265. Sep 22 20:15:38 <blarajan> it's true
  266. Sep 22 20:15:47 <MarceloDK> anyways
  267. Sep 22 20:17:42 <MarceloDK> my point is that double rush gives you an instant advantage vs. other kind of teams
  268. Sep 22 20:17:53 <elevator_music> it comes at a big cost though :(
  269. Sep 22 20:18:02 <MarceloDK> is you support it correctly
  270. Sep 22 20:18:06 <MarceloDK> *if
  271. Sep 22 20:18:12 <elevator_music> you can say the same thing for like
  272. Sep 22 20:18:15 <elevator_music> riolu though :(
  273. Sep 22 20:18:51 <MarceloDK> u just need keep harzards out and/or carry prioritys to beat riolu
  274. Sep 22 20:19:06 <MarceloDK> but double rush u cant beat even with snover or pory scarf or bronzor
  275. Sep 22 20:20:17 <blarajan> yes you can..?
  276. Sep 22 20:20:20 <MarceloDK> see heysup's team: hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour
  277. Sep 22 20:20:21 <elevator_music> you're both underestimating the effectiveness of riolu and overestimating double rush -.-
  278. Sep 22 20:20:21 <comatt6> yeah...you can
  279. Sep 22 20:20:34 <MarceloDK> how can a snover beat this?
  280. Sep 22 20:20:39 <MarceloDK> double trap...
  281. Sep 22 20:20:45 <elevator_music> yeah
  282. Sep 22 20:20:48 <elevator_music> run lileep and staryu
  283. Sep 22 20:20:56 <blarajan> you mean heysup effectively built a team to well support a strategy?
  284. Sep 22 20:21:02 <prem> okay im here
  285. Sep 22 20:21:07 <elevator_music> or any two pokemon that moles cant set up on
  286. Sep 22 20:21:10 <blarajan> heaven's forbid
  287. Sep 22 20:21:35 <MarceloDK> i mean this strategy cant be countered with standard teams
  288. Sep 22 20:21:43 <comatt6> hi prem
  289. Sep 22 20:21:53 <prem> hi
  290. Sep 22 20:21:58 <blarajan> that's really not true lol
  291. Sep 22 20:21:58 <MarceloDK> i mean
  292. Sep 22 20:22:12 <MarceloDK> you're about to use bronzor and shroo in the same team?
  293. Sep 22 20:22:15 <blarajan> i play fairly standard things lol
  294. Sep 22 20:22:23 <elevator_music> no
  295. Sep 22 20:22:26 <blarajan> i hardly use either of those pokemon
  296. Sep 22 20:22:26 <elevator_music> because you dont need to
  297. Sep 22 20:22:39 <blarajan> and i never have issues with double rushh
  298. Sep 22 20:22:42 <blarajan> as it's not a problem
  299. Sep 22 20:22:55 <prem> i have issues single rush!
  300. Sep 22 20:22:56 <MarceloDK> or your oponents sucks
  301. Sep 22 20:23:02 <prem> but my teams are kinda odd
  302. Sep 22 20:23:29 <blarajan> i really don't get what the problem is
  303. Sep 22 20:23:32 <blarajan> lol
  304. Sep 22 20:23:55 <prem> its too strong and fast and doesnt get ohkoed by all forms of priority
  305. Sep 22 20:24:02 <prem> well
  306. Sep 22 20:24:03 <prem> really strong
  307. Sep 22 20:24:05 <prem> and too fast
  308. Sep 22 20:24:08 <MarceloDK> this
  309. Sep 22 20:24:14 <prem> im not saying too strong
  310. Sep 22 20:24:20 <comatt6> drilbur is strong
  311. Sep 22 20:24:23 <prem> even though i agree that drilbur should be banned
  312. Sep 22 20:24:24 <comatt6> no one is going to debate that
  313. Sep 22 20:24:31 <MarceloDK> both are strong
  314. Sep 22 20:24:42 <prem> but thats my opinion based on me trying to like completely counter sand teams and still failr
  315. Sep 22 20:24:43 <MarceloDK> +2 sd lo can 1hko everything, but bronzor
  316. Sep 22 20:24:44 <prem> fail
  317. Sep 22 20:24:54 <blarajan> lileep
  318. Sep 22 20:24:55 <prem> +2 sd lo is also very hard to set up
  319. Sep 22 20:24:55 <iss> oh hi
  320. Sep 22 20:24:56 <iss> i'm here
  321. Sep 22 20:24:58 <elevator_music> im sure running lo staryu doesnt help....
  322. Sep 22 20:24:59 <blarajan> is never ohkoed by +2 life orb
  323. Sep 22 20:25:00 <comatt6> lol iss
  324. Sep 22 20:25:00 <prem> lileep probably dies
  325. Sep 22 20:25:02 <comatt6> ok
  326. Sep 22 20:25:02 <iss> sorry
  327. Sep 22 20:25:03 <blarajan> just saying
  328. Sep 22 20:25:06 <blarajan> it's never ohkoed
  329. Sep 22 20:25:07 <MarceloDK> nah
  330. Sep 22 20:25:08 <prem> it isnt?
  331. Sep 22 20:25:08 <comatt6> lileep will lose to a +2 LO eq
  332. Sep 22 20:25:10 <blarajan> nope
  333. Sep 22 20:25:12 <blarajan> 96% max
  334. Sep 22 20:25:13 <MarceloDK> isnt hard to setup
  335. Sep 22 20:25:14 <prem> i call bullshit
  336. Sep 22 20:25:15 <iss> the problem is
  337. Sep 22 20:25:16 <prem> you have rocks
  338. Sep 22 20:25:18 <blarajan> want to bet?
  339. Sep 22 20:25:19 <prem> if you are running hippo
  340. Sep 22 20:25:20 <elevator_music> thing is
  341. Sep 22 20:25:21 <iss> getting an sd with lo
  342. Sep 22 20:25:22 <comatt6> actually
  343. Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss> is impossible
  344. Sep 22 20:25:23 <MarceloDK> sand can setup in mienfoo and a lot of things
  345. Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss> lol
  346. Sep 22 20:25:25 * Aerrow has kicked comatt6 from #council (Aerrow)
  347. Sep 22 20:25:25 <blarajan> okay well if you're running fucking sd on lo
  348. Sep 22 20:25:29 * comatt6 (~com@synIRC-1883DAA4.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #council
  349. Sep 22 20:25:29 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council comatt6
  350. Sep 22 20:25:29 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to comatt6
  351. Sep 22 20:25:29 <prem> iss thats not impossible at all lol
  352. Sep 22 20:25:32 <comatt6> thank you
  353. Sep 22 20:25:37 <Aerrow> no
  354. Sep 22 20:25:39 <comatt6> i just lost all the logs now
  355. Sep 22 20:25:40 <elevator_music> thing is
  356. Sep 22 20:25:41 <prem> but ya its very difficult to set up
  357. Sep 22 20:25:44 <Aerrow> np*
  358. Sep 22 20:25:44 <iss> prem it's pretty hard if you have an opponent who has any idea what they're doing
  359. Sep 22 20:25:49 <iss> also priority ...
  360. Sep 22 20:25:52 <prem> priority...
  361. Sep 22 20:25:55 <MarceloDK> lol
  362. Sep 22 20:25:59 <comatt6> well then there's protect =/
  363. Sep 22 20:26:01 <prem> the common one is groagunk vw?
  364. Sep 22 20:26:05 <comatt6> eq + rs is pretty good coverage
  365. Sep 22 20:26:06 <prem> what else is common
  366. Sep 22 20:26:10 <iss> mienfoo fake out
  367. Sep 22 20:26:11 <MarceloDK> sandsherew dgaf about priority
  368. Sep 22 20:26:13 <iss> murkrow sucker punch
  369. Sep 22 20:26:14 <comatt6> or are we not talking about fake out
  370. Sep 22 20:26:15 <MarceloDK> just aqua jet, but lol
  371. Sep 22 20:26:15 <prem> is fake out still common?
  372. Sep 22 20:26:17 <elevator_music> sandshrew and drilbur and hippo share a lot of pokemon that the former two cant set up on and are threatened by
  373. Sep 22 20:26:19 <iss> sandshrew is weak though
  374. Sep 22 20:26:19 <prem> murkrow wins anyway
  375. Sep 22 20:26:22 <prem> no matter what
  376. Sep 22 20:26:25 <iss> the problem is if you go double rush
  377. Sep 22 20:26:26 <comatt6> murkrow sucker punch doens't ohko sandshrew
  378. Sep 22 20:26:28 <elevator_music> you cant cover all of them with 3 pokemon
  379. Sep 22 20:26:30 <iss> you only have two slots left
  380. Sep 22 20:26:32 <iss> three*
  381. Sep 22 20:26:38 <iss> so you actually just die to stuff like
  382. Sep 22 20:26:39 <elevator_music> so all the opponent needs to do
  383. Sep 22 20:26:39 <MarceloDK> @emma
  384. Sep 22 20:26:43 <MarceloDK> you don't need to
  385. Sep 22 20:26:43 <elevator_music> is keep one of those pokemon in
  386. Sep 22 20:26:46 <iss> snover or scarf porygon or anything
  387. Sep 22 20:26:46 <elevator_music> lol
  388. Sep 22 20:26:50 <MarceloDK> it's a offensive team
  389. Sep 22 20:27:02 <MarceloDK> u don't need to cover everything
  390. Sep 22 20:27:03 <elevator_music> yeah but if you have nothing that can switch into like
  391. Sep 22 20:27:04 <elevator_music> lileep
  392. Sep 22 20:27:05 <blarajan> marcelo you're completely and utterly overestimating how easy it is to slap on an offensive little cup team and win
  393. Sep 22 20:27:06 <elevator_music> or staryu
  394. Sep 22 20:27:12 <elevator_music> you're going to lose
  395. Sep 22 20:27:14 <blarajan> you're taking prem's side of the argument
  396. Sep 22 20:27:18 <blarajan> because he uses offensive teams
  397. Sep 22 20:27:18 <iss> i mean snover simply shits on double rush completely tbh
  398. Sep 22 20:27:23 <iss> double rush is an autoloss vs snover
  399. Sep 22 20:27:25 <blarajan> guess how often he actually wins?
  400. Sep 22 20:27:27 <MarceloDK> lol
  401. Sep 22 20:27:29 <blarajan> not frequently
  402. Sep 22 20:27:30 <prem> iss
  403. Sep 22 20:27:31 <comatt6> I use offensive teams
  404. Sep 22 20:27:31 <elevator_music> lol
  405. Sep 22 20:27:33 <comatt6> that being said
  406. Sep 22 20:27:36 <prem> there are ways around a snover
  407. Sep 22 20:27:38 <blarajan> by offensive i mean
  408. Sep 22 20:27:40 <prem> in a double rush team lol
  409. Sep 22 20:27:43 <blarajan> let's run life orb on everything!!
  410. Sep 22 20:27:43 <comatt6> I do not believe that drilbur/double rush is broken
  411. Sep 22 20:27:43 <MarceloDK> hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour lileep
  412. Sep 22 20:27:50 <comatt6> lol blara
  413. Sep 22 20:27:53 <prem> lol blara
  414. Sep 22 20:27:55 <blarajan> ok so you are pretty shit on by lileep
  415. Sep 22 20:27:56 <prem> i dont do that much anymore
  416. Sep 22 20:27:56 <MarceloDK> lileep can switch on staryu and lileep
  417. Sep 22 20:27:56 <blarajan> in its entirety
  418. Sep 22 20:28:03 <blarajan> toxic lileep
  419. Sep 22 20:28:06 <iss> still
  420. Sep 22 20:28:08 <blarajan> fucks with that team
  421. Sep 22 20:28:09 <iss> the problem remains
  422. Sep 22 20:28:10 <blarajan> really fucking hard
  423. Sep 22 20:28:11 <MarceloDK> also tickle wynaut + pursuit
  424. Sep 22 20:28:15 <iss> you have so few switchins for common pokemon
  425. Sep 22 20:28:22 <prem> fuck switching in
  426. Sep 22 20:28:23 <iss> you basically lose something every time
  427. Sep 22 20:28:25 <prem> on offensive teams
  428. Sep 22 20:28:26 <blarajan> murkrow fucks with that team
  429. Sep 22 20:28:27 <iss> and you can't ohko things
  430. Sep 22 20:28:29 <MarceloDK> u really don't need to switch, dude
  431. Sep 22 20:28:29 <blarajan> tirtouga fucks with that team
  432. Sep 22 20:28:36 <blarajan> magnemite fucks with that team with magnet rise
  433. Sep 22 20:28:38 <iss> you can't ohko things without using swords dance
  434. Sep 22 20:28:40 <iss> that's the problem
  435. Sep 22 20:28:43 <MarceloDK> nah
  436. Sep 22 20:28:44 <blarajan> mienfoo fucks with that team
  437. Sep 22 20:28:46 <prem> that idk about
  438. Sep 22 20:28:46 <MarceloDK> houndour
  439. Sep 22 20:28:49 <MarceloDK> nah
  440. Sep 22 20:28:50 <prem> but switching in
  441. Sep 22 20:28:51 <blarajan> it's really not that hard or what you're fucking talking about
  442. Sep 22 20:28:51 <MarceloDK> hippo
  443. Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem> is useless in offensive teams
  444. Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem> lol
  445. Sep 22 20:29:01 <MarceloDK> yes
  446. Sep 22 20:29:04 <blarajan> oh my you mean hippopotas is a reliable check to mienfoo now??
  447. Sep 22 20:29:07 <blarajan> gahhhhh!
  448. Sep 22 20:29:11 <blarajan> shit
  449. Sep 22 20:29:14 <prem> hippo is horrible
  450. Sep 22 20:29:17 <MarceloDK> sands can setup on mienfoo's face
  451. Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem> in most cases
  452. Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem> lol
  453. Sep 22 20:29:18 <blarajan> i've been playing the wrong tier
  454. Sep 22 20:29:21 <blarajan> dammit
  455. Sep 22 20:29:24 <comatt6> hippo doesn't beat mienfoo
  456. Sep 22 20:29:26 <comatt6> lol blara
  457. Sep 22 20:29:27 <prem> hippo loses
  458. Sep 22 20:29:30 <prem> most of the time
  459. Sep 22 20:29:31 <prem> unless
  460. Sep 22 20:29:32 <prem> LO EQ
  461. Sep 22 20:29:36 <iss> i mean the whole problem with double rush is that it is an instaloss against so many things
  462. Sep 22 20:29:38 <prem> which is fun
  463. Sep 22 20:29:43 <iss> it is great if your opponent doesn't have counters
  464. Sep 22 20:29:54 <iss> but that mean they have terrible teambuilding skils
  465. Sep 22 20:30:00 <iss> skills*
  466. Sep 22 20:30:07 <MarceloDK> iss
  467. Sep 22 20:30:10 <elevator_music> this isnt ou, there are no instalosses -.-
  468. Sep 22 20:30:12 <MarceloDK> instaloss against what?
  469. Sep 22 20:30:18 <comatt6> iss that's a pretty big assumption
  470. Sep 22 20:30:21 <iss> any competent snover user
  471. Sep 22 20:30:26 <iss> scarf porygon
  472. Sep 22 20:30:26 <MarceloDK> lol
  473. Sep 22 20:30:30 <iss> teams with 2+ priority moves
  474. Sep 22 20:30:33 <comatt6> but with the magnitude of all the fighting-types
  475. Sep 22 20:30:33 <MarceloDK> > wynaut and houndour
  476. Sep 22 20:30:41 <comatt6> ...
  477. Sep 22 20:30:41 <MarceloDK> u shit on snover and poryscarf
  478. Sep 22 20:30:45 <iss> no one's going to get snover trapped by wynaut
  479. Sep 22 20:30:49 <prem> why not
  480. Sep 22 20:30:50 <prem> lol
  481. Sep 22 20:30:50 <iss> and houndour gets 2-3hkoed
  482. Sep 22 20:30:55 <MarceloDK> u can sent hippo on wynaut
  483. Sep 22 20:31:04 <prem> let them kill something with snover
  484. Sep 22 20:31:04 <MarceloDK> *snover
  485. Sep 22 20:31:04 <comatt6> marcelo...what?
  486. Sep 22 20:31:06 <prem> trap with wynaut
  487. Sep 22 20:31:07 <comatt6> oh ok
  488. Sep 22 20:31:12 <MarceloDK> than sent wynaut
  489. Sep 22 20:31:13 <iss> because obviously the threat of wynaut is there
  490. Sep 22 20:31:15 <comatt6> or just sac something vs snover
  491. Sep 22 20:31:18 <prem> so
  492. Sep 22 20:31:19 <blarajan> OH FUCK
  493. Sep 22 20:31:19 <comatt6> then switch in wynaut
  494. Sep 22 20:31:20 <blarajan> YOU MEAN
  495. Sep 22 20:31:21 <iss> so you bait wynaut
  496. Sep 22 20:31:23 <blarajan> A TEAM THAT IS PERFECTLY SUPPORTED
  497. Sep 22 20:31:24 <prem> they wont use snover ever?
  498. Sep 22 20:31:28 <blarajan> WHICH IS BUILT ENTIRELY
  499. Sep 22 20:31:30 <blarajan> TO MAKE A STRATEGY WORK
  500. Sep 22 20:31:37 <elevator_music> blarajan stop it
  501. Sep 22 20:31:41 <blarajan> AND WHICH SUCCEEDS WHEN THE TEAM STRATEGY WORKS
  502. Sep 22 20:31:41 <prem> ya lol
  503. Sep 22 20:31:41 <comatt6> blarajan...
  504. Sep 22 20:31:42 <blarajan> IS BROKEN
  505. Sep 22 20:31:46 <blarajan> fucking what the hell i hate people
  506. Sep 22 20:31:50 <elevator_music> blarajan i'm serious
  507. Sep 22 20:31:55 <comatt6> lol blara
  508. Sep 22 20:32:09 <elevator_music> be respectful or shut up
  509. Sep 22 20:32:19 <prem> my general opinion is that drilbur shits on everything ive ever used
  510. Sep 22 20:32:20 <MarceloDK> it's just an example
  511. Sep 22 20:32:20 <iss> anyways i mean double rush gets completely wrecked the moment you a) lose either one of drilbur/sandshrew without killing 2+ mons b) lose any of your counters to their counters (wynaut against snover, etc)
  512. Sep 22 20:32:37 <blarajan> it's difficult to respect stupid comments, em
  513. Sep 22 20:32:40 <prem> okay it loses if you lose your counter to something
  514. Sep 22 20:32:46 <prem> blara do it anyway
  515. Sep 22 20:32:48 <iss> you have one counter
  516. Sep 22 20:32:49 <blarajan> prem that's just because what you're using is shit on by drilbur
  517. Sep 22 20:32:49 <iss> and no checks
  518. Sep 22 20:32:51 <iss> lol
  519. Sep 22 20:32:53 <prem> no
  520. Sep 22 20:32:59 <prem> ive tried making defensive teams
  521. Sep 22 20:33:01 <blarajan> it's different that drilbur shitting on what you use
  522. Sep 22 20:33:06 <prem> and stolen teams that supposedly arent shit on by drilbur
  523. Sep 22 20:33:08 <iss> defensive double rush?
  524. Sep 22 20:33:11 <prem> still ALWAYS shit on by drillbur
  525. Sep 22 20:33:11 <iss> what
  526. Sep 22 20:33:16 <prem> lol
  527. Sep 22 20:33:19 <blarajan> name one
  528. Sep 22 20:33:20 <MarceloDK> so do you guys REALLY think snover beats double rush?
  529. Sep 22 20:33:24 <prem> idk i just cant play around that mother fucker :(
  530. Sep 22 20:33:24 <elevator_music> no
  531. Sep 22 20:33:30 <blarajan> supposedly well built team that is just shit on by drilbur
  532. Sep 22 20:33:38 <elevator_music> because pkmn doesnt beat strategy (imo)
  533. Sep 22 20:33:40 <blarajan> protip: if it's shit on by drilbur, it's not well built
  534. Sep 22 20:33:49 <MarceloDK> u has 2 drilburs
  535. Sep 22 20:33:51 <prem> protip: i said a team not shit on by drilbur
  536. Sep 22 20:33:55 <blarajan> no, you have one sandshrew
  537. Sep 22 20:33:55 <MarceloDK> 1 with more defense
  538. Sep 22 20:33:56 <prem> and also
  539. Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss> and way weaker
  540. Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss> lol
  541. Sep 22 20:34:03 <prem> stop being so fucking sarcastic
  542. Sep 22 20:34:14 <blarajan> just not in the mood for this right now lol
  543. Sep 22 20:34:21 <comatt6> blarajan you can always just leave
  544. Sep 22 20:34:28 <comatt6> if you're not in the mood for this
  545. Sep 22 20:34:30 <blarajan> and watch not broken things get banned?
  546. Sep 22 20:34:34 <blarajan> hell no
  547. Sep 22 20:34:36 <prem> okay well
  548. Sep 22 20:34:38 <prem> stop being a dick
  549. Sep 22 20:34:49 <prem> cause you being one isnt helping for shit
  550. Sep 22 20:35:09 * Aerrow has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  551. Sep 22 20:35:10 <iss> drilbur simply isn't broken
  552. Sep 22 20:35:17 <blarajan> that's really it
  553. Sep 22 20:35:20 <MarceloDK> drilbur isn't
  554. Sep 22 20:35:22 <comatt6> i like what iss said
  555. Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem> i think it really is broken
  556. Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem> lol
  557. Sep 22 20:35:24 <MarceloDK> but double rush is
  558. Sep 22 20:35:24 <iss> the mere fact that you can provide it an entire team of support
  559. Sep 22 20:35:29 <iss> and only be an average teams
  560. Sep 22 20:35:30 * Aerrow (~chatzilla@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
  561. Sep 22 20:35:30 * ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
  562. Sep 22 20:35:30 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
  563. Sep 22 20:35:31 <iss> team*
  564. Sep 22 20:35:33 <iss> speaks to that
  565. Sep 22 20:35:35 <blarajan> things seem effective when you build a team designed specifically to support it
  566. Sep 22 20:35:41 <blarajan> and when the team design works
  567. Sep 22 20:35:42 <MarceloDK> man
  568. Sep 22 20:35:47 <blarajan> it's not just use hippo use drilbur use sandshrew and win
  569. Sep 22 20:35:52 <MarceloDK> but you can counter these teams with shit
  570. Sep 22 20:36:01 <MarceloDK> double rush you really can solid counter
  571. Sep 22 20:36:07 <MarceloDK> *cant
  572. Sep 22 20:36:09 <comatt6> you're going to need more than 3 pokemon to beat the list of counters that beat double rush
  573. Sep 22 20:36:19 <iss> aerrow when do we vote
  574. Sep 22 20:36:25 <comatt6> well of course there's no such thing as a solid counter to anything
  575. Sep 22 20:36:26 <blarajan> when did pokemon become a game of "if i can't counter it effectively with what i want to use" it's broken
  576. Sep 22 20:36:29 <elevator_music> maybe when rayjay gets back
  577. Sep 22 20:36:31 <comatt6> in general
  578. Sep 22 20:36:33 <iss> ok
  579. Sep 22 20:36:36 <elevator_music> last gen blara
  580. Sep 22 20:36:42 <Aerrow> where did rayjay go
  581. Sep 22 20:36:44 <Aerrow> well; you vote when the convo is over
  582. Sep 22 20:36:53 <Aerrow> rather, when nothing productive comes from it anymore
  583. Sep 22 20:36:55 <blarajan> instead of a game of "if i can't play well i can't just mindlessly expect to win"
  584. Sep 22 20:37:02 <MarceloDK> hum i gtg
  585. Sep 22 20:37:04 <Aerrow> and things get repetitive
  586. Sep 22 20:37:10 <MarceloDK> will be back in like 1 hour
  587. Sep 22 20:37:14 <MarceloDK> it's ok? n.n
  588. Sep 22 20:37:16 <comatt6> ok bai marcelo
  589. Sep 22 20:37:42 <elevator_music> kk
  590. Sep 22 20:37:44 <elevator_music> lets talk about krow
  591. Sep 22 20:37:50 <prem> kk
  592. Sep 22 20:37:52 * MarceloDK has quit (Quit: )
  593. Sep 22 20:37:53 <iss> okay
  594. Sep 22 20:37:56 <prem> drilbur vote will be x-1
  595. Sep 22 20:37:57 <prem> !
  596. Sep 22 20:38:01 <prem> anyway
  597. Sep 22 20:38:02 <iss> my argument on krow
  598. Sep 22 20:38:07 <iss> is the same one i had against gligar
  599. Sep 22 20:38:17 <iss> if it's a top threat in the metagame
  600. Sep 22 20:38:18 <prem> you had no arguement against gligar j/s
  601. Sep 22 20:38:22 <elevator_music> lol
  602. Sep 22 20:38:23 <elevator_music> lol
  603. Sep 22 20:38:25 <iss> being able to secure 1 kill isn't broken
  604. Sep 22 20:38:33 <prem> like your reason was very very bad and i refuse to accept that as a reason
  605. Sep 22 20:38:39 <prem> im sorry if thats disrespectful
  606. Sep 22 20:38:41 <iss> 9.9
  607. Sep 22 20:39:08 <comatt6> murkrow requires team support
  608. Sep 22 20:39:14 <elevator_music> no it doesnt >_>
  609. Sep 22 20:39:14 <prem> murkrow requires no team support
  610. Sep 22 20:39:16 <comatt6> which is why I don't *feel* as if it's *broken*
  611. Sep 22 20:39:20 <prem> mixkrow is just stick it on a team
  612. Sep 22 20:39:22 <prem> switch it in
  613. Sep 22 20:39:23 <elevator_music> i literally just slap mixkrow on any team i want
  614. Sep 22 20:39:24 <prem> press brave bird
  615. Sep 22 20:39:25 <prem> something dies
  616. Sep 22 20:39:28 <elevator_music> you cant switch it in
  617. Sep 22 20:39:30 <iss> mixkrow doesn't need team support
  618. Sep 22 20:39:35 <comatt6> well
  619. Sep 22 20:39:36 <iss> eviolite subroost works tons better with support though
  620. Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem> anyone who says otherwise is using it wron
  621. Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem> g
  622. Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6> i'm thinking of the wrong set
  623. Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6> sorry
  624. Sep 22 20:39:43 <elevator_music> you double switch or
  625. Sep 22 20:39:45 <comatt6> i use evio subroost
  626. Sep 22 20:39:46 <comatt6> my bad
  627. Sep 22 20:39:48 <prem> okay
  628. Sep 22 20:39:49 <comatt6> i don't use mixkrow
  629. Sep 22 20:39:51 <comatt6> MY BAD
  630. Sep 22 20:39:52 <elevator_music> bring it in on like
  631. Sep 22 20:39:54 <prem> evio subroost needs teamsupport
  632. Sep 22 20:39:55 <prem> i agree
  633. Sep 22 20:39:57 <elevator_music> one of the 4 pokemon it can come in on lol
  634. Sep 22 20:39:59 <comatt6> mixkrow doesn't need support
  635. Sep 22 20:40:14 <blarajan> the thing is and i personally believe this incredibly strongly
  636. Sep 22 20:40:17 <prem> i honestly dont know hwo to describe murkrow
  637. Sep 22 20:40:20 <blarajan> is that while mixkrow is a nuke
  638. Sep 22 20:40:32 <prem> when i speak about it
  639. Sep 22 20:40:33 <blarajan> it's one not all that difficult to play around
  640. Sep 22 20:40:34 <iss> i agree with blarajan
  641. Sep 22 20:40:35 <blarajan> and two it dies so fast
  642. Sep 22 20:40:41 <blarajan> like honestly
  643. Sep 22 20:40:42 <blarajan> sr
  644. Sep 22 20:40:43 <blarajan> sandstream
  645. Sep 22 20:40:43 <prem> being able to kill like 2 mons almost most games
  646. Sep 22 20:40:49 <comatt6> you can either give it power or longevity
  647. Sep 22 20:40:50 <prem> almost all games*
  648. Sep 22 20:40:50 <blarajan> life orb damage
  649. Sep 22 20:40:51 <blarajan> priority
  650. Sep 22 20:40:52 <blarajan> fake out
  651. Sep 22 20:40:53 <comatt6> that's p much the tossup
  652. Sep 22 20:40:57 <blarajan> living a hit and hitting back
  653. Sep 22 20:40:59 <blarajan> those sorts of things
  654. Sep 22 20:41:00 <elevator_music> i have to agree
  655. Sep 22 20:41:00 <prem> but when you play it
  656. Sep 22 20:41:05 <prem> it just
  657. Sep 22 20:41:10 <prem> is really managable
  658. Sep 22 20:41:12 <elevator_music> mixkrow is honestly the strongest pokemon in lc
  659. Sep 22 20:41:13 <elevator_music> but
  660. Sep 22 20:41:14 <iss> here's my take
  661. Sep 22 20:41:19 <blarajan> it being able to kill two mons or something requires you to play well
  662. Sep 22 20:41:22 <iss> lo + brave bird is really really strong but dies really fast
  663. Sep 22 20:41:24 <blarajan> and your opponent not to play well lol
  664. Sep 22 20:41:29 <iss> eviolite subroost is just so hard to play correctly
  665. Sep 22 20:41:34 <blarajan> and when your nuke is dying in like honestly two brave birds tops
  666. Sep 22 20:41:38 <elevator_music> yeah realistically it has trouble staying in and doing major damage
  667. Sep 22 20:41:40 <blarajan> it's not that difficult
  668. Sep 22 20:41:40 <prem> okay being able to kill 2 things and dying fast
  669. Sep 22 20:41:43 <prem> is sitll a +1 for you
  670. Sep 22 20:41:46 <iss> yes but
  671. Sep 22 20:41:46 <prem> so thats not a negative
  672. Sep 22 20:41:47 <prem> !
  673. Sep 22 20:41:49 <blarajan> theory wise it's like
  674. Sep 22 20:41:50 <iss> when it's a top pokemon
  675. Sep 22 20:41:51 <blarajan> holy fucking fuck
  676. Sep 22 20:41:54 <iss> killing 2 is not broken
  677. Sep 22 20:41:54 <blarajan> this thing is ridonkulous
  678. Sep 22 20:41:58 <prem> ya its not broken
  679. Sep 22 20:41:59 <blarajan> but when you play it it's like
  680. Sep 22 20:41:59 <prem> lol
  681. Sep 22 20:42:00 <iss> since some pokemon are just better than others
  682. Sep 22 20:42:03 <blarajan> i can force it out with any priority move
  683. Sep 22 20:42:10 <iss> also it can't switch in ever
  684. Sep 22 20:42:11 <blarajan> or anything
  685. Sep 22 20:42:13 <elevator_music> yeah, exactly
  686. Sep 22 20:42:13 <prem> if it can take a sucker punch
  687. Sep 22 20:42:16 <blarajan> and then bam rocks and bam you're p much dead
  688. Sep 22 20:42:23 <comatt6> mhmm
  689. Sep 22 20:42:27 <Charmander> mixkrow can even be setup bait sometimes....
  690. Sep 22 20:42:28 <blarajan> also stop using occa magnemite
  691. Sep 22 20:42:30 <Charmander> like tirtouga
  692. Sep 22 20:42:32 <blarajan> whoever the hell is doing that
  693. Sep 22 20:42:32 <elevator_music> lol occa
  694. Sep 22 20:42:34 <blarajan> eviolite lives
  695. Sep 22 20:42:36 <blarajan> a heat wave
  696. Sep 22 20:42:36 <iss> also can i say something
  697. Sep 22 20:42:37 <blarajan> stop doing that
  698. Sep 22 20:42:39 <iss> like
  699. Sep 22 20:42:47 <iss> the stuff heysup has posted
  700. Sep 22 20:42:56 <iss> it really feels super theorymonny
  701. Sep 22 20:43:08 <prem> doesnt
  702. Sep 22 20:43:09 <iss> it's like if i theorymoned i'd get the same conclusion
  703. Sep 22 20:43:15 <comatt6> not as much
  704. Sep 22 20:43:20 <prem> occa reduce the same as eviolite
  705. Sep 22 20:43:21 <prem> lol
  706. Sep 22 20:43:22 <iss> but since i play i sort of get a completely different idea
  707. Sep 22 20:43:23 <comatt6> iss i see what you're saying but not to that extent
  708. Sep 22 20:43:30 <blarajan> nah occa is half
  709. Sep 22 20:43:31 <iss> nah prem occa is 2x evio is 1.5
  710. Sep 22 20:43:32 <blarajan> eviolite is 1.5
  711. Sep 22 20:43:33 <prem> oh
  712. Sep 22 20:43:35 <comatt6> ^
  713. Sep 22 20:43:47 <blarajan> yeah exactly
  714. Sep 22 20:43:50 <comatt6> wait
  715. Sep 22 20:43:50 <elevator_music> nah i disagree
  716. Sep 22 20:43:54 <comatt6> who uses occa mag?
  717. Sep 22 20:43:56 <blarajan> all in all lo krow is on paper a fucking crazy super bamf
  718. Sep 22 20:43:57 <Charmander> plus I dont think 1.5 defense equates to a 33% damage reduction since
  719. Sep 22 20:44:00 <Charmander> there are other factors like HP
  720. Sep 22 20:44:01 <blarajan> but when you play it it's really not that bad
  721. Sep 22 20:44:08 <Charmander> occa is just a direct 1/2 damage
  722. Sep 22 20:44:12 <Charmander> eviolite is more complicated
  723. Sep 22 20:44:14 <elevator_music> it doesnt equate lol
  724. Sep 22 20:44:15 <Charmander> you cant really compare them
  725. Sep 22 20:44:17 <iss> mixkrow is a seen on tv pokemon
  726. Sep 22 20:44:22 <iss> it looks great when you first see it
  727. Sep 22 20:44:26 <blarajan> also eviolite sub roost just isn't hard to beat at all
  728. Sep 22 20:44:26 <Charmander> other than they both survive heat wave
  729. Sep 22 20:44:29 <blarajan> so we're not even discussing that
  730. Sep 22 20:44:30 <blarajan> right
  731. Sep 22 20:44:30 <prem> it is great wwhenever you see it
  732. Sep 22 20:44:30 <iss> but actually isn't quite as good as it seems
  733. Sep 22 20:44:38 <elevator_music> because damage calcs truncate and round at like every step
  734. Sep 22 20:44:41 <comatt6> are we only discussing mixkrow?
  735. Sep 22 20:44:44 <Charmander> archen hard counters non lo krow
  736. Sep 22 20:44:47 <blarajan> honestly i think we should be
  737. Sep 22 20:44:50 <Charmander> and still counters lo krow that isnt mixed
  738. Sep 22 20:44:51 <blarajan> because any eviolite krow
  739. Sep 22 20:44:53 <blarajan> is just not problematic
  740. Sep 22 20:44:54 <blarajan> lol
  741. Sep 22 20:44:55 <elevator_music> archen hardcounters like every krow
  742. Sep 22 20:44:59 <iss> yeah
  743. Sep 22 20:45:01 <elevator_music> except lo dark pulse
  744. Sep 22 20:45:02 <Charmander> not lo mixkrow
  745. Sep 22 20:45:03 <Charmander> yeah
  746. Sep 22 20:45:06 <blarajan> what about sucker punch
  747. Sep 22 20:45:09 <Charmander> roost
  748. Sep 22 20:45:11 <blarajan> oh i guess you can just roost a lot
  749. Sep 22 20:45:12 <iss> sub then roost
  750. Sep 22 20:45:14 <Charmander> yeah
  751. Sep 22 20:45:15 <iss> and rock slide
  752. Sep 22 20:45:17 <Charmander> dont use sub
  753. Sep 22 20:45:18 <Charmander> lol
  754. Sep 22 20:45:24 <comatt6> sub on archen is bad
  755. Sep 22 20:45:25 <iss> fine
  756. Sep 22 20:45:27 <iss> w/e
  757. Sep 22 20:45:30 <Charmander> sub is basically like
  758. Sep 22 20:45:30 <prem> sub on archen is shit
  759. Sep 22 20:45:31 <comatt6> you're just getting closer to defeatist
  760. Sep 22 20:45:35 <Charmander> "i want defeatist to activate"
  761. Sep 22 20:45:55 <elevator_music> i agree with most of heysup's post
  762. Sep 22 20:46:23 <elevator_music> just not the part he underlined and bolded
  763. Sep 22 20:46:26 <blarajan> i would agree with heysup's post is if it ever worked that way when using or playing against murkrow
  764. Sep 22 20:46:29 <elevator_music> because in practice that never happens
  765. Sep 22 20:46:43 <iss> i mean i feel
  766. Sep 22 20:46:47 <blarajan> and since it doesn't hold in practice i don't care how it works in theory
  767. Sep 22 20:46:49 <iss> the main argument for banning mixkrow
  768. Sep 22 20:46:57 <iss> is that "it kills 3 pokemon before recoil kills it"
  769. Sep 22 20:47:03 <iss> but that never actually works
  770. Sep 22 20:47:19 <blarajan> if it wasn't apparent my vote is no ban for both
  771. Sep 22 20:47:39 <comatt6> i don't see how mixkrow can get 3 kills
  772. Sep 22 20:47:43 <comatt6> blarajan it was pretty apparent
  773. Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem> my vote is ban drilbur
  774. Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem> !
  775. Sep 22 20:48:32 <prem> who woulda guessed
  776. Sep 22 20:48:43 <iss> how surprising prem
  777. Sep 22 20:48:46 <prem> i know!
  778. Sep 22 20:49:13 <blarajan> can we just vote lol why do we have to wait?
  779. Sep 22 20:49:25 <prem> we need rayjay and marcelo here?
  780. Sep 22 20:49:35 <blarajan> ok so they vote when they come back >.<
  781. Sep 22 20:49:39 <prem> idk
  782. Sep 22 20:49:42 <blarajan> i know ray jay's vote anyways
  783. Sep 22 20:49:47 <prem> we could if aerrow says something
  784. Sep 22 20:49:50 <elevator_music> discussion is pretty much over
  785. Sep 22 20:49:51 <prem> says okay*
  786. Sep 22 20:49:57 <elevator_music> its just i'd rather wait for marcelo to come back
  787. Sep 22 20:49:57 <prem> we all agree on murkrow
  788. Sep 22 20:50:06 <elevator_music> so we can "discuss" drilbur more
  789. Sep 22 20:50:08 <blarajan> sorry i was a dick i'm just really not having a good day
  790. Sep 22 20:50:09 <blarajan> lol
  791. Sep 22 20:50:23 <comatt6> mhmm
  792. Sep 22 20:50:34 <comatt6> so we're all in favor of keeping murkrow?
  793. Sep 22 20:50:40 <prem> basically
  794. Sep 22 20:50:42 <elevator_music> we can revisit double rush in the future if it ever does become just too dominant
  795. Sep 22 20:50:42 <blarajan> i think i finally fixed my stupid fucking h key
  796. Sep 22 20:50:44 <prem> i mean us 5 do
  797. Sep 22 20:50:47 <elevator_music> but thats pretty obviously not the case
  798. Sep 22 20:50:49 <blarajan> which has been pissing me off in the past twenty minutes
  799. Sep 22 20:50:55 <prem> so
  800. Sep 22 20:50:57 <prem> its not getting banned
  801. Sep 22 20:50:57 <comatt6> cool story bro
  802. Sep 22 20:50:58 <blarajan> since it would just press h when i typed around it
  803. Sep 22 20:51:04 <comatt6> ok keep murkrow
  804. Sep 22 20:51:06 <blarajan> was annoying as hell but i finally fixed that fucker
  805. Sep 22 20:51:07 <elevator_music> aerrow, we're probably going to vote now?
  806. Sep 22 20:51:07 <comatt6> i can live with that
  807. Sep 22 20:51:11 <blarajan> my laptop is finally not annoying
  808. Sep 22 20:51:13 <blarajan> OKAY
  809. Sep 22 20:51:14 <Aerrow> go ahead
  810. Sep 22 20:51:15 <blarajan> DRILBUR VOTE
  811. Sep 22 20:51:17 <prem> BAN
  812. Sep 22 20:51:19 <blarajan> rajan==no ban
  813. Sep 22 20:51:26 <iss> no ban
  814. Sep 22 20:51:30 <iss> 9.9
  815. Sep 22 20:51:48 <blarajan> (ray jay votes no ban just saying but w/e)
  816. Sep 22 20:51:55 <iss> i think we should just wait
  817. Sep 22 20:51:59 <elevator_music> no ban
  818. Sep 22 20:51:59 <iss> until we do this officially
  819. Sep 22 20:52:02 <elevator_music> but "ok"
  820. Sep 22 20:52:05 <elevator_music> we can do it by pm lol
  821. Sep 22 20:52:07 <prem> LOL
  822. Sep 22 20:52:09 <prem> okay
  823. Sep 22 20:52:32 <comatt6> no ban
  824. Sep 22 20:53:13 <elevator_music> that means no ban anyways
  825. Sep 22 20:53:18 <elevator_music> since 4 of us agree
  826. Sep 22 20:53:19 <Aerrow> sum up the bans
  827. Sep 22 20:53:20 <elevator_music> but ok
  828. Sep 22 20:53:26 <Aerrow> the votes*
  829. Sep 22 20:53:31 <Aerrow> how many in favor of banning
  830. Sep 22 20:53:37 <iss> at leash 1 (prem
  831. Sep 22 20:53:47 <iss> at least 4 against banning (iss, blarajan, em, comatt)
  832. Sep 22 20:53:49 <elevator_music> 1 ban, 4 no ban, marcelo and rayjay dont matter
  833. Sep 22 20:53:56 <prem> okay so
  834. Sep 22 20:53:56 <Aerrow> alright
  835. Sep 22 20:53:58 <prem> its nothing banned
  836. Sep 22 20:53:59 <iss> this is for drilbur
  837. Sep 22 20:53:59 <prem> lol
  838. Sep 22 20:54:08 <prem> we all agree no murkrow ban right?
  839. Sep 22 20:54:17 <iss> okay murkrow vote now
  840. Sep 22 20:54:18 <iss> i guess
  841. Sep 22 20:54:25 <prem> NO BA
  842. Sep 22 20:54:26 <prem> N
  843. Sep 22 20:54:26 <iss> no ban
  844. Sep 22 20:54:53 <iss> blarajan em comatt?
  845. Sep 22 20:55:03 <blarajan> no ban on either
  846. Sep 22 20:55:09 <blarajan> meta is perect
  847. Sep 22 20:55:12 <blarajan> fect
  848. Sep 22 20:55:32 <iss> comatt6
  849. Sep 22 20:57:45 <blarajan> can we temporarily dissolve the council lol
  850. Sep 22 20:57:51 <blarajan> after this vote it's not like it matters
  851. Sep 22 20:57:55 <blarajan> since the meta's not changing
  852. Sep 22 20:58:19 <blarajan> unless shit like idk sheer force totodile become broken or we figure out how to make double rush actually broken
  853. Sep 22 20:58:20 <blarajan> or something idk
  854. Sep 22 20:58:27 <blarajan> it's not like we need to do anything since our tier doesn't change
  855. Sep 22 20:58:34 <comatt6> i'm back
  856. Sep 22 20:58:35 <comatt6> sorry
  857. Sep 22 20:58:36 <comatt6> what
  858. Sep 22 20:58:38 <comatt6> no ban
  859. Sep 22 20:58:44 <iss> okay that's 4
  860. Sep 22 20:58:50 <iss> no one confirmed for ban
  861. Sep 22 20:59:00 <iss> four for no ban (iss, blarajan, prem, comatt6)
  862. Sep 22 20:59:03 <iss> i guess that's it
  863. Sep 22 20:59:04 <comatt6> does this mean i can go do my hw now
  864. Sep 22 20:59:11 <blarajan> y
  865. Sep 22 20:59:12 <iss> thanks for coming out everyone
  866. Sep 22 20:59:13 <prem> lol
  867. Sep 22 20:59:14 <iss> it's been real