Sep 22 19:36:25 * RayJay (RayJay@synIRC-529E4D6D.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #council
Sep 22 19:36:26 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council RayJay
Sep 22 19:36:26 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to RayJay
Sep 22 19:37:03 <RayJay> hi
Sep 22 19:37:07 <RayJay> em
Sep 22 19:37:08 <RayJay> iss
Sep 22 19:37:09 <RayJay> prem
Sep 22 19:37:10 <RayJay> comatt
Sep 22 19:37:18 <RayJay> if you're ready, we can begin discussion.
Sep 22 19:39:45 <comatt6> sure thing
Sep 22 19:39:51 <comatt6> i still don't have sops
Sep 22 19:39:52 <comatt6> w/e
Sep 22 19:41:25 <RayJay> ok
Sep 22 19:41:26 <RayJay> so
Sep 22 19:41:26 <comatt6> ready if everyone else is
Sep 22 19:41:35 <RayJay> let's start with drilbur
Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6> can we start with drilbur? i'm still--
Sep 22 19:41:39 <comatt6> ok
Sep 22 19:41:43 <comatt6> rayjay knows me
Sep 22 19:41:49 <RayJay> ...... / double sand rush
Sep 22 19:42:01 <comatt6> double sand rush is powerful
Sep 22 19:42:11 <comatt6> but can be played against properly
Sep 22 19:42:33 <comatt6> but it's hard to find a team (IMO) that works well against double rush AND works against other teams in the meta
Sep 22 19:43:11 <RayJay> see i disagree
Sep 22 19:43:19 <comatt6> how so
Sep 22 19:43:22 <elevator_music> hi
Sep 22 19:43:22 <RayJay> tons of players are using Snover, who frankly stomps double rush even more than sand rush
Sep 22 19:43:30 <elevator_music> ok i can come one sec
Sep 22 19:43:30 <comatt6> well the problem with that is
Sep 22 19:43:39 <comatt6> snover can't switch in directly
Sep 22 19:43:43 <comatt6> because rock slide
Sep 22 19:43:55 <RayJay> ok by that argument
Sep 22 19:44:04 <comatt6> so it HAS to come in on eq or sd
Sep 22 19:44:08 <comatt6> or revenge kill
Sep 22 19:44:09 <RayJay> it's important to note that half your team can't come in on Snover
Sep 22 19:44:11 <elevator_music> snover comes in on hippo
Sep 22 19:44:28 <comatt6> this is true
Sep 22 19:44:47 <comatt6> side note: if this is being recorded or whatever, v0x is a bitch.
Sep 22 19:44:52 * elevator_music has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
Sep 22 19:45:02 * elevator_music (str@ng.pkmn.weak.pkmn.that.is.only.the.selfish.perception.of.people) has joined #council
Sep 22 19:45:02 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council elevator_music
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Sep 22 19:45:07 <RayJay> beyond snover, i struggle to see how double rush breaks through mienfoo 100% of the time
Sep 22 19:45:16 <RayJay> and mienfoo is easily the most common poke
Sep 22 19:45:19 <comatt6> what's the calc
Sep 22 19:45:26 <comatt6> of a +2 sd sandshrew EQ
Sep 22 19:45:33 <comatt6> +2 drilbur EQ is easy ohko
Sep 22 19:45:38 <comatt6> unless i'm sadly mistaken
Sep 22 19:45:47 <comatt6> assuming both have eviolite
Sep 22 19:45:57 <RayJay> it does not ohko mienfoo
Sep 22 19:46:04 <elevator_music> ok see my real problem with double rush
Sep 22 19:46:13 <RayJay> unless i am also sadly mistaken
Sep 22 19:46:13 <comatt6> hmm
Sep 22 19:46:14 <elevator_music> is that you have to use only 3 pokemon to cover the rest of the metagame
Sep 22 19:46:18 <comatt6> after rocks it's a ko
Sep 22 19:46:26 <RayJay> uhm what calc are you using
Sep 22 19:46:26 <comatt6> unless i'm thinking about a different spread
Sep 22 19:46:27 <elevator_music> because hippo/drilbur/sandshrew all have the same like
Sep 22 19:46:35 <comatt6> we're talking about a 0/196 right
Sep 22 19:46:38 <elevator_music> handful of pokemon they can come in on, yknow?
Sep 22 19:46:40 <comatt6> ray jay i
Sep 22 19:46:48 <comatt6> *i'm not, i'm going off of past experience
Sep 22 19:46:49 <comatt6> s
Sep 22 19:46:52 <comatt6> which...all had rocks down
Sep 22 19:46:55 <RayJay> because i've used my defensive mienfoo as essentially my sole drilbur / sandshrew counter and lost to double rush maybe once
Sep 22 19:47:07 <comatt6> do you also use snover?
Sep 22 19:47:15 <RayJay> no
Sep 22 19:47:17 <comatt6> oh
Sep 22 19:47:24 <comatt6> rayjay which calc are you using
Sep 22 19:47:26 <comatt6> i need a reference
Sep 22 19:47:35 <RayJay> you SHOULD be using masara
Sep 22 19:47:39 <comatt6> ok
Sep 22 19:47:47 <RayJay> my mienfoo is impish
Sep 22 19:47:48 <RayJay> 156 hp
Sep 22 19:47:52 <RayJay> 196 def
Sep 22 19:47:54 <comatt6> oh impish 156/196
Sep 22 19:47:55 <comatt6> i see
Sep 22 19:47:59 <comatt6> that would prevent an OHKO
Sep 22 19:48:03 <elevator_music> real niggas do calcs out by hand
Sep 22 19:48:06 <comatt6> hahaha
Sep 22 19:48:31 <comatt6> this being said, I'm NOT saying drilbur is broken
Sep 22 19:48:37 <comatt6> I just want to throw this out there
Sep 22 19:48:37 <RayJay> alright
Sep 22 19:48:47 <RayJay> i mean i've heard the "arguments" for it being broken
Sep 22 19:48:59 <RayJay> but i just have not seen a team comp with double rush that blows me away
Sep 22 19:49:00 <comatt6> as have i
Sep 22 19:49:05 <comatt6> word
Sep 22 19:49:12 <comatt6> have you played heysup?
Sep 22 19:49:31 <elevator_music> no because heysup doesnt really battle x.x
Sep 22 19:49:37 <RayJay> heysup cant battle i thought
Sep 22 19:49:51 <elevator_music> no he's good
Sep 22 19:49:53 <comatt6> he claims to have gone 28-2 or some horse shit like that with a double rush
Sep 22 19:50:03 <elevator_music> he just doesnt play lc much anymore
Sep 22 19:50:04 <comatt6> I don't believe my double rush team can perform that well
Sep 22 19:51:51 <RayJay> i mean i think it's pretty much understood at this point that drilbur is just frankly not broken by itself
Sep 22 19:51:55 <comatt6> ^
Sep 22 19:51:57 <comatt6> agreed.
Sep 22 19:52:05 <RayJay> and sand rush is just balanced by the fact that it takes 3 team slots
Sep 22 19:52:12 <RayJay> double rush, excuse me
Sep 22 19:52:31 <comatt6> you are excused
Sep 22 19:52:57 <RayJay> so do you two have any other notes on that?
Sep 22 19:53:06 <comatt6> yeah kinda
Sep 22 19:53:16 <comatt6> but it's just going to be a reiteration of what we've already said
Sep 22 19:53:41 <RayJay> go ahead
Sep 22 19:53:47 <comatt6> it's pretty much: without sand, drilbur is a support option with rapid spin; stealth rock; and mold breaker yes it beats koffing and bronzor but no one cares support isn't broken
Sep 22 19:54:20 <elevator_music> iss is dumb
Sep 22 19:54:25 <elevator_music> prem sucks penises
Sep 22 19:54:30 <elevator_music> lol charmander
Sep 22 19:54:39 <Charmander> sup
Sep 22 19:55:01 <comatt6> with ONLY hippopotas as part of a sandstorm team, the only way drilbur can sweep is if it comes in lategame and manages to set up swords dance; however, players usually come prepared with 1-3 checks to drilbur so it cannot do that effectively
Sep 22 19:55:23 <RayJay> yeah alright
Sep 22 19:55:35 <RayJay> since no one else is here yet, i think we can probably talk about murkrow for a bit
Sep 22 19:56:30 <comatt6> with Hippopotas AND sandshrew as a part of a sandstorm team, you are limited to the remaining slots and pretty much have to base the remaining half of the team to countering anti-sand/hail while your opponent may only need 1-2 pokemon to counter sand and can use 1-2 more pokemon to beat your counters and use the remaining mons to counter standard threats
Sep 22 19:57:02 <comatt6> that's all i have on drilbur
Sep 22 19:57:07 <Charmander> yeah
Sep 22 19:57:11 <Charmander> basically three ground-types
Sep 22 19:57:16 <Charmander> makes your team already kind of weak
Sep 22 19:57:18 <Charmander> you'll need like
Sep 22 19:57:21 <comatt6> Did everything I said make sense?
Sep 22 19:57:22 <Charmander> slowpoke bronzor lileep
Sep 22 19:57:23 <Charmander> or something
Sep 22 19:57:31 <RayJay> yup @ comatt
Sep 22 19:57:33 <comatt6> you pretty much NEED lileep and/or croagunk for water
Sep 22 19:57:39 <comatt6> and then uhhh
Sep 22 19:57:45 <comatt6> something for grass bronzor makes sense
Sep 22 19:58:21 * Aerrow (~aerrow@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
Sep 22 19:58:21 * ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
Sep 22 19:58:21 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
Sep 22 19:58:32 <RayJay> hi aerrow
Sep 22 19:58:42 <RayJay> we just finished discussing drilbur with the parties present
Sep 22 19:58:43 <comatt6> hey aerrow
Sep 22 19:58:50 <RayJay> now we're gonna move on to murkrow
Sep 22 19:58:51 <comatt6> lol you mean 2 members + charmander
Sep 22 19:58:57 <comatt6> so pretty much 2.5 members
Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay> no
Sep 22 19:59:07 <Aerrow> alright
Sep 22 19:59:07 <RayJay> me
Sep 22 19:59:08 <RayJay> em
Sep 22 19:59:08 <Aerrow> Save the logs
Sep 22 19:59:08 <elevator_music> where is bloserajan?
Sep 22 19:59:09 <Aerrow> All of it
Sep 22 19:59:09 <RayJay> iss
Sep 22 19:59:12 <RayJay> you
Sep 22 19:59:13 <comatt6> em didn't really talk
Sep 22 19:59:16 <comatt6> iss is here?
Sep 22 19:59:18 <comatt6> prem is here?
Sep 22 19:59:21 <RayJay> iss is in the channel
Sep 22 19:59:23 <Aerrow> ALL OF IT
Sep 22 19:59:27 <comatt6> ok
Sep 22 19:59:29 <RayJay> yeah i am saving the logs
Sep 22 19:59:29 <Aerrow> alright?
Sep 22 19:59:39 <comatt6> can i make a quick shout out
Sep 22 19:59:44 <comatt6> now that we're saving ALL the logs?
Sep 22 19:59:46 <Charmander> wait aerrow if one of the permanent members has to quit i replace them right
Sep 22 19:59:57 <Aerrow> yea
Sep 22 20:00:00 <RayJay> yeah also charmander has the right to chime into this discussion
Sep 22 20:00:00 <Charmander> ok cool
Sep 22 20:00:08 <comatt6> that's fair
Sep 22 20:00:12 <comatt6> charmander is cool
Sep 22 20:00:15 <elevator_music> charmander sux 8===D
Sep 22 20:00:15 <Aerrow> yes obv meander has ther right
Sep 22 20:00:26 <comatt6> charmander is minimember?
Sep 22 20:00:28 <RayJay> em
Sep 22 20:00:33 <RayJay> why did you show up to this while high
Sep 22 20:00:38 <RayJay> this is supposed to be serious
Sep 22 20:00:39 <RayJay> 9.9
Sep 22 20:00:59 <elevator_music> haha i'll be on my best behavior
Sep 22 20:01:04 <RayJay> so murkrow
Sep 22 20:01:05 <Aerrow> everyone stfu and talk serious
Sep 22 20:01:06 <RayJay> em start us off
Sep 22 20:01:09 <RayJay> what do you think
Sep 22 20:01:10 <Charmander> lol
Sep 22 20:01:14 <Charmander> I love em when hes high
Sep 22 20:01:18 <elevator_music> i posted my opinion in the thread
Sep 22 20:01:23 <elevator_music> (and im actually not high lol)
Sep 22 20:01:24 <elevator_music> but
Sep 22 20:01:27 <Charmander> ok
Sep 22 20:01:31 <Charmander> I love em when he acts high*
Sep 22 20:01:34 * blarajan (~blarajan@synIRC-998F151F.wireless.umd.edu) has joined #council
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Sep 22 20:01:37 <elevator_music> about time
Sep 22 20:01:38 <Aerrow> I'll be listening for the most part btw
Sep 22 20:01:40 <comatt6> lol
Sep 22 20:01:47 <Charmander> look what the cat dragged in........
Sep 22 20:01:49 <blarajan> yo
Sep 22 20:01:54 <RayJay> blarajan
Sep 22 20:01:56 <comatt6> hi blara!
Sep 22 20:01:57 <RayJay> before
Sep 22 20:02:03 <RayJay> we go on to murkrow
Sep 22 20:02:04 <comatt6> btw aerrow could i get sops on this channel
Sep 22 20:02:06 <RayJay> thoughts on drilbur and double rush
Sep 22 20:02:08 <comatt6> i feel inadequate
Sep 22 20:03:42 <RayJay> blarajan answer the questionb
Sep 22 20:03:44 <RayJay> question
Sep 22 20:03:50 <Charmander> i'll give my opinion
Sep 22 20:03:51 <blarajan> sorry my laptop was being silly
Sep 22 20:03:57 <blarajan> uhhh
Sep 22 20:04:00 <Charmander> like you said it gives you three snover weak mons
Sep 22 20:04:09 <Charmander> its can wreck non snover teams or non sand teams
Sep 22 20:04:15 <Charmander> but if you dont have a check you deserve to lose anyway
Sep 22 20:04:28 <elevator_music> the problem with double rush isnt not having a check
Sep 22 20:04:30 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:04:38 <Charmander> its centralizing but
Sep 22 20:04:40 <elevator_music> the point of double rush is to try and win even though you do have a check
Sep 22 20:04:41 <blarajan> double rush requires you to use three mono ground type pokemon on the same team
Sep 22 20:04:45 <Charmander> centralization isnt ground to be banned
Sep 22 20:04:50 <Charmander> being plan broken is
Sep 22 20:04:54 <Charmander> and sandrush is pretty far from that
Sep 22 20:04:56 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:05:00 <Charmander> plain*
Sep 22 20:05:08 <Charmander> also can missy be a suspect
Sep 22 20:05:16 <elevator_music> no
Sep 22 20:05:16 <Charmander> or are we past that stage
Sep 22 20:05:19 <blarajan> which is pretty problematic in a tier like little cup
Sep 22 20:05:19 <Charmander> fine
Sep 22 20:05:26 <RayJay> lol we are going to vote tonight charmander
Sep 22 20:06:05 <comatt6> missy isn't broken ><
Sep 22 20:06:13 <comatt6> we've gotten a tad bit off topic haven't we
Sep 22 20:06:25 <Charmander> yeah
Sep 22 20:06:27 <Charmander> im j/s
Sep 22 20:06:27 <RayJay> ok blarajan any other thoughts?
Sep 22 20:06:28 <Charmander> but go on
Sep 22 20:06:41 <blarajan> synergetic issues like that really matter
Sep 22 20:06:57 <blarajan> likewise honestly if you check one of them you check both
Sep 22 20:07:35 <RayJay> what is your response to the potential naysayers that say sandshrew wears down drilbur's checks?
Sep 22 20:08:36 <blarajan> who..cares? that's what playing pokemon does? you use things to wear down checks?
Sep 22 20:08:44 <RayJay> makes sense
Sep 22 20:08:51 <RayJay> alright so i think we're all pretty much in agreement there
Sep 22 20:09:12 <RayJay> i have to go afk for a bit, so we'll either vote later tonight or via pm
Sep 22 20:09:23 <RayJay> in the meantime, discuss murkrow
Sep 22 20:09:27 * RayJay is now known as AwayJay
Sep 22 20:09:33 <blarajan> you're the one that scheduled this...
Sep 22 20:09:36 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:09:52 <AwayJay> i had to schedule a time that worked best for the council as a whole
Sep 22 20:10:06 <AwayJay> which is more than just me
Sep 22 20:10:10 <comatt6> lol
Sep 22 20:10:12 * MarceloDK (~MarceloDK@BBC2B918.98FA4916.E778BCE0.IP) has joined #council
Sep 22 20:10:13 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council MarceloDK
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Sep 22 20:10:15 <comatt6> look at rayjay
Sep 22 20:10:19 <comatt6> being the pragmatic man
Sep 22 20:10:22 <comatt6> hey marcelo
Sep 22 20:10:25 <comatt6> thoughts on: Drilbur
Sep 22 20:10:27 <MarceloDK> hi
Sep 22 20:10:29 <MarceloDK> n_n
Sep 22 20:10:31 <comatt6> by itself / part of SS / double rush
Sep 22 20:11:21 <MarceloDK> i'm like 35/4 on ps with an alt
Sep 22 20:11:32 <comatt6> cool
Sep 22 20:11:34 <MarceloDK> 3 loses to dc or a lot of hax
Sep 22 20:11:43 <MarceloDK> and 1 to oposing sand team
Sep 22 20:11:57 <MarceloDK> ~using a double rush team~
Sep 22 20:12:00 <blarajan> why do we care about thaht?
Sep 22 20:12:03 <blarajan> that*
Sep 22 20:12:10 <elevator_music> loladder
Sep 22 20:12:18 <blarajan> i've gone 35-0 on the ru ladder using electivire and metang
Sep 22 20:12:24 <MarceloDK> hm k
Sep 22 20:12:25 <blarajan> the ladder means nothing
Sep 22 20:12:29 <blarajan> lc ladder means even less
Sep 22 20:12:36 <blarajan> people think iss is a top player
Sep 22 20:12:40 <blarajan> you know tath's sad
Sep 22 20:13:02 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:13:24 <comatt6> lol
Sep 22 20:13:47 <comatt6> blara so blunt
Sep 22 20:15:38 <blarajan> it's true
Sep 22 20:15:47 <MarceloDK> anyways
Sep 22 20:17:42 <MarceloDK> my point is that double rush gives you an instant advantage vs. other kind of teams
Sep 22 20:17:53 <elevator_music> it comes at a big cost though :(
Sep 22 20:18:02 <MarceloDK> is you support it correctly
Sep 22 20:18:06 <MarceloDK> *if
Sep 22 20:18:12 <elevator_music> you can say the same thing for like
Sep 22 20:18:15 <elevator_music> riolu though :(
Sep 22 20:18:51 <MarceloDK> u just need keep harzards out and/or carry prioritys to beat riolu
Sep 22 20:19:06 <MarceloDK> but double rush u cant beat even with snover or pory scarf or bronzor
Sep 22 20:20:17 <blarajan> yes you can..?
Sep 22 20:20:20 <MarceloDK> see heysup's team: hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour
Sep 22 20:20:21 <elevator_music> you're both underestimating the effectiveness of riolu and overestimating double rush -.-
Sep 22 20:20:21 <comatt6> yeah...you can
Sep 22 20:20:34 <MarceloDK> how can a snover beat this?
Sep 22 20:20:39 <MarceloDK> double trap...
Sep 22 20:20:45 <elevator_music> yeah
Sep 22 20:20:48 <elevator_music> run lileep and staryu
Sep 22 20:20:56 <blarajan> you mean heysup effectively built a team to well support a strategy?
Sep 22 20:21:02 <prem> okay im here
Sep 22 20:21:07 <elevator_music> or any two pokemon that moles cant set up on
Sep 22 20:21:10 <blarajan> heaven's forbid
Sep 22 20:21:35 <MarceloDK> i mean this strategy cant be countered with standard teams
Sep 22 20:21:43 <comatt6> hi prem
Sep 22 20:21:53 <prem> hi
Sep 22 20:21:58 <blarajan> that's really not true lol
Sep 22 20:21:58 <MarceloDK> i mean
Sep 22 20:22:12 <MarceloDK> you're about to use bronzor and shroo in the same team?
Sep 22 20:22:15 <blarajan> i play fairly standard things lol
Sep 22 20:22:23 <elevator_music> no
Sep 22 20:22:26 <blarajan> i hardly use either of those pokemon
Sep 22 20:22:26 <elevator_music> because you dont need to
Sep 22 20:22:39 <blarajan> and i never have issues with double rushh
Sep 22 20:22:42 <blarajan> as it's not a problem
Sep 22 20:22:55 <prem> i have issues single rush!
Sep 22 20:22:56 <MarceloDK> or your oponents sucks
Sep 22 20:23:02 <prem> but my teams are kinda odd
Sep 22 20:23:29 <blarajan> i really don't get what the problem is
Sep 22 20:23:32 <blarajan> lol
Sep 22 20:23:55 <prem> its too strong and fast and doesnt get ohkoed by all forms of priority
Sep 22 20:24:02 <prem> well
Sep 22 20:24:03 <prem> really strong
Sep 22 20:24:05 <prem> and too fast
Sep 22 20:24:08 <MarceloDK> this
Sep 22 20:24:14 <prem> im not saying too strong
Sep 22 20:24:20 <comatt6> drilbur is strong
Sep 22 20:24:23 <prem> even though i agree that drilbur should be banned
Sep 22 20:24:24 <comatt6> no one is going to debate that
Sep 22 20:24:31 <MarceloDK> both are strong
Sep 22 20:24:42 <prem> but thats my opinion based on me trying to like completely counter sand teams and still failr
Sep 22 20:24:43 <MarceloDK> +2 sd lo can 1hko everything, but bronzor
Sep 22 20:24:44 <prem> fail
Sep 22 20:24:54 <blarajan> lileep
Sep 22 20:24:55 <prem> +2 sd lo is also very hard to set up
Sep 22 20:24:55 <iss> oh hi
Sep 22 20:24:56 <iss> i'm here
Sep 22 20:24:58 <elevator_music> im sure running lo staryu doesnt help....
Sep 22 20:24:59 <blarajan> is never ohkoed by +2 life orb
Sep 22 20:25:00 <comatt6> lol iss
Sep 22 20:25:00 <prem> lileep probably dies
Sep 22 20:25:02 <comatt6> ok
Sep 22 20:25:02 <iss> sorry
Sep 22 20:25:03 <blarajan> just saying
Sep 22 20:25:06 <blarajan> it's never ohkoed
Sep 22 20:25:07 <MarceloDK> nah
Sep 22 20:25:08 <prem> it isnt?
Sep 22 20:25:08 <comatt6> lileep will lose to a +2 LO eq
Sep 22 20:25:10 <blarajan> nope
Sep 22 20:25:12 <blarajan> 96% max
Sep 22 20:25:13 <MarceloDK> isnt hard to setup
Sep 22 20:25:14 <prem> i call bullshit
Sep 22 20:25:15 <iss> the problem is
Sep 22 20:25:16 <prem> you have rocks
Sep 22 20:25:18 <blarajan> want to bet?
Sep 22 20:25:19 <prem> if you are running hippo
Sep 22 20:25:20 <elevator_music> thing is
Sep 22 20:25:21 <iss> getting an sd with lo
Sep 22 20:25:22 <comatt6> actually
Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss> is impossible
Sep 22 20:25:23 <MarceloDK> sand can setup in mienfoo and a lot of things
Sep 22 20:25:23 <iss> lol
Sep 22 20:25:25 * Aerrow has kicked comatt6 from #council (Aerrow)
Sep 22 20:25:25 <blarajan> okay well if you're running fucking sd on lo
Sep 22 20:25:29 * comatt6 (~com@synIRC-1883DAA4.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #council
Sep 22 20:25:29 * ChanServ sets mode +a #council comatt6
Sep 22 20:25:29 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to comatt6
Sep 22 20:25:29 <prem> iss thats not impossible at all lol
Sep 22 20:25:32 <comatt6> thank you
Sep 22 20:25:37 <Aerrow> no
Sep 22 20:25:39 <comatt6> i just lost all the logs now
Sep 22 20:25:40 <elevator_music> thing is
Sep 22 20:25:41 <prem> but ya its very difficult to set up
Sep 22 20:25:44 <Aerrow> np*
Sep 22 20:25:44 <iss> prem it's pretty hard if you have an opponent who has any idea what they're doing
Sep 22 20:25:49 <iss> also priority ...
Sep 22 20:25:52 <prem> priority...
Sep 22 20:25:55 <MarceloDK> lol
Sep 22 20:25:59 <comatt6> well then there's protect =/
Sep 22 20:26:01 <prem> the common one is groagunk vw?
Sep 22 20:26:05 <comatt6> eq + rs is pretty good coverage
Sep 22 20:26:06 <prem> what else is common
Sep 22 20:26:10 <iss> mienfoo fake out
Sep 22 20:26:11 <MarceloDK> sandsherew dgaf about priority
Sep 22 20:26:13 <iss> murkrow sucker punch
Sep 22 20:26:14 <comatt6> or are we not talking about fake out
Sep 22 20:26:15 <MarceloDK> just aqua jet, but lol
Sep 22 20:26:15 <prem> is fake out still common?
Sep 22 20:26:17 <elevator_music> sandshrew and drilbur and hippo share a lot of pokemon that the former two cant set up on and are threatened by
Sep 22 20:26:19 <iss> sandshrew is weak though
Sep 22 20:26:19 <prem> murkrow wins anyway
Sep 22 20:26:22 <prem> no matter what
Sep 22 20:26:25 <iss> the problem is if you go double rush
Sep 22 20:26:26 <comatt6> murkrow sucker punch doens't ohko sandshrew
Sep 22 20:26:28 <elevator_music> you cant cover all of them with 3 pokemon
Sep 22 20:26:30 <iss> you only have two slots left
Sep 22 20:26:32 <iss> three*
Sep 22 20:26:38 <iss> so you actually just die to stuff like
Sep 22 20:26:39 <elevator_music> so all the opponent needs to do
Sep 22 20:26:39 <MarceloDK> @emma
Sep 22 20:26:43 <MarceloDK> you don't need to
Sep 22 20:26:43 <elevator_music> is keep one of those pokemon in
Sep 22 20:26:46 <iss> snover or scarf porygon or anything
Sep 22 20:26:46 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:26:50 <MarceloDK> it's a offensive team
Sep 22 20:27:02 <MarceloDK> u don't need to cover everything
Sep 22 20:27:03 <elevator_music> yeah but if you have nothing that can switch into like
Sep 22 20:27:04 <elevator_music> lileep
Sep 22 20:27:05 <blarajan> marcelo you're completely and utterly overestimating how easy it is to slap on an offensive little cup team and win
Sep 22 20:27:06 <elevator_music> or staryu
Sep 22 20:27:12 <elevator_music> you're going to lose
Sep 22 20:27:14 <blarajan> you're taking prem's side of the argument
Sep 22 20:27:18 <blarajan> because he uses offensive teams
Sep 22 20:27:18 <iss> i mean snover simply shits on double rush completely tbh
Sep 22 20:27:23 <iss> double rush is an autoloss vs snover
Sep 22 20:27:25 <blarajan> guess how often he actually wins?
Sep 22 20:27:27 <MarceloDK> lol
Sep 22 20:27:29 <blarajan> not frequently
Sep 22 20:27:30 <prem> iss
Sep 22 20:27:31 <comatt6> I use offensive teams
Sep 22 20:27:31 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:27:33 <comatt6> that being said
Sep 22 20:27:36 <prem> there are ways around a snover
Sep 22 20:27:38 <blarajan> by offensive i mean
Sep 22 20:27:40 <prem> in a double rush team lol
Sep 22 20:27:43 <blarajan> let's run life orb on everything!!
Sep 22 20:27:43 <comatt6> I do not believe that drilbur/double rush is broken
Sep 22 20:27:43 <MarceloDK> hippo sand drilbur wynaut houndour lileep
Sep 22 20:27:50 <comatt6> lol blara
Sep 22 20:27:53 <prem> lol blara
Sep 22 20:27:55 <blarajan> ok so you are pretty shit on by lileep
Sep 22 20:27:56 <prem> i dont do that much anymore
Sep 22 20:27:56 <MarceloDK> lileep can switch on staryu and lileep
Sep 22 20:27:56 <blarajan> in its entirety
Sep 22 20:28:03 <blarajan> toxic lileep
Sep 22 20:28:06 <iss> still
Sep 22 20:28:08 <blarajan> fucks with that team
Sep 22 20:28:09 <iss> the problem remains
Sep 22 20:28:10 <blarajan> really fucking hard
Sep 22 20:28:11 <MarceloDK> also tickle wynaut + pursuit
Sep 22 20:28:15 <iss> you have so few switchins for common pokemon
Sep 22 20:28:22 <prem> fuck switching in
Sep 22 20:28:23 <iss> you basically lose something every time
Sep 22 20:28:25 <prem> on offensive teams
Sep 22 20:28:26 <blarajan> murkrow fucks with that team
Sep 22 20:28:27 <iss> and you can't ohko things
Sep 22 20:28:29 <MarceloDK> u really don't need to switch, dude
Sep 22 20:28:29 <blarajan> tirtouga fucks with that team
Sep 22 20:28:36 <blarajan> magnemite fucks with that team with magnet rise
Sep 22 20:28:38 <iss> you can't ohko things without using swords dance
Sep 22 20:28:40 <iss> that's the problem
Sep 22 20:28:43 <MarceloDK> nah
Sep 22 20:28:44 <blarajan> mienfoo fucks with that team
Sep 22 20:28:46 <prem> that idk about
Sep 22 20:28:46 <MarceloDK> houndour
Sep 22 20:28:49 <MarceloDK> nah
Sep 22 20:28:50 <prem> but switching in
Sep 22 20:28:51 <blarajan> it's really not that hard or what you're fucking talking about
Sep 22 20:28:51 <MarceloDK> hippo
Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem> is useless in offensive teams
Sep 22 20:28:53 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:29:01 <MarceloDK> yes
Sep 22 20:29:04 <blarajan> oh my you mean hippopotas is a reliable check to mienfoo now??
Sep 22 20:29:07 <blarajan> gahhhhh!
Sep 22 20:29:11 <blarajan> shit
Sep 22 20:29:14 <prem> hippo is horrible
Sep 22 20:29:17 <MarceloDK> sands can setup on mienfoo's face
Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem> in most cases
Sep 22 20:29:17 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:29:18 <blarajan> i've been playing the wrong tier
Sep 22 20:29:21 <blarajan> dammit
Sep 22 20:29:24 <comatt6> hippo doesn't beat mienfoo
Sep 22 20:29:26 <comatt6> lol blara
Sep 22 20:29:27 <prem> hippo loses
Sep 22 20:29:30 <prem> most of the time
Sep 22 20:29:31 <prem> unless
Sep 22 20:29:32 <prem> LO EQ
Sep 22 20:29:36 <iss> i mean the whole problem with double rush is that it is an instaloss against so many things
Sep 22 20:29:38 <prem> which is fun
Sep 22 20:29:43 <iss> it is great if your opponent doesn't have counters
Sep 22 20:29:54 <iss> but that mean they have terrible teambuilding skils
Sep 22 20:30:00 <iss> skills*
Sep 22 20:30:07 <MarceloDK> iss
Sep 22 20:30:10 <elevator_music> this isnt ou, there are no instalosses -.-
Sep 22 20:30:12 <MarceloDK> instaloss against what?
Sep 22 20:30:18 <comatt6> iss that's a pretty big assumption
Sep 22 20:30:21 <iss> any competent snover user
Sep 22 20:30:26 <iss> scarf porygon
Sep 22 20:30:26 <MarceloDK> lol
Sep 22 20:30:30 <iss> teams with 2+ priority moves
Sep 22 20:30:33 <comatt6> but with the magnitude of all the fighting-types
Sep 22 20:30:33 <MarceloDK> > wynaut and houndour
Sep 22 20:30:41 <comatt6> ...
Sep 22 20:30:41 <MarceloDK> u shit on snover and poryscarf
Sep 22 20:30:45 <iss> no one's going to get snover trapped by wynaut
Sep 22 20:30:49 <prem> why not
Sep 22 20:30:50 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:30:50 <iss> and houndour gets 2-3hkoed
Sep 22 20:30:55 <MarceloDK> u can sent hippo on wynaut
Sep 22 20:31:04 <prem> let them kill something with snover
Sep 22 20:31:04 <MarceloDK> *snover
Sep 22 20:31:04 <comatt6> marcelo...what?
Sep 22 20:31:06 <prem> trap with wynaut
Sep 22 20:31:07 <comatt6> oh ok
Sep 22 20:31:12 <MarceloDK> than sent wynaut
Sep 22 20:31:13 <iss> because obviously the threat of wynaut is there
Sep 22 20:31:15 <comatt6> or just sac something vs snover
Sep 22 20:31:18 <prem> so
Sep 22 20:31:19 <blarajan> OH FUCK
Sep 22 20:31:19 <comatt6> then switch in wynaut
Sep 22 20:31:20 <blarajan> YOU MEAN
Sep 22 20:31:21 <iss> so you bait wynaut
Sep 22 20:31:23 <blarajan> A TEAM THAT IS PERFECTLY SUPPORTED
Sep 22 20:31:24 <prem> they wont use snover ever?
Sep 22 20:31:28 <blarajan> WHICH IS BUILT ENTIRELY
Sep 22 20:31:30 <blarajan> TO MAKE A STRATEGY WORK
Sep 22 20:31:37 <elevator_music> blarajan stop it
Sep 22 20:31:41 <blarajan> AND WHICH SUCCEEDS WHEN THE TEAM STRATEGY WORKS
Sep 22 20:31:41 <prem> ya lol
Sep 22 20:31:41 <comatt6> blarajan...
Sep 22 20:31:42 <blarajan> IS BROKEN
Sep 22 20:31:46 <blarajan> fucking what the hell i hate people
Sep 22 20:31:50 <elevator_music> blarajan i'm serious
Sep 22 20:31:55 <comatt6> lol blara
Sep 22 20:32:09 <elevator_music> be respectful or shut up
Sep 22 20:32:19 <prem> my general opinion is that drilbur shits on everything ive ever used
Sep 22 20:32:20 <MarceloDK> it's just an example
Sep 22 20:32:20 <iss> anyways i mean double rush gets completely wrecked the moment you a) lose either one of drilbur/sandshrew without killing 2+ mons b) lose any of your counters to their counters (wynaut against snover, etc)
Sep 22 20:32:37 <blarajan> it's difficult to respect stupid comments, em
Sep 22 20:32:40 <prem> okay it loses if you lose your counter to something
Sep 22 20:32:46 <prem> blara do it anyway
Sep 22 20:32:48 <iss> you have one counter
Sep 22 20:32:49 <blarajan> prem that's just because what you're using is shit on by drilbur
Sep 22 20:32:49 <iss> and no checks
Sep 22 20:32:51 <iss> lol
Sep 22 20:32:53 <prem> no
Sep 22 20:32:59 <prem> ive tried making defensive teams
Sep 22 20:33:01 <blarajan> it's different that drilbur shitting on what you use
Sep 22 20:33:06 <prem> and stolen teams that supposedly arent shit on by drilbur
Sep 22 20:33:08 <iss> defensive double rush?
Sep 22 20:33:11 <prem> still ALWAYS shit on by drillbur
Sep 22 20:33:11 <iss> what
Sep 22 20:33:16 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:33:19 <blarajan> name one
Sep 22 20:33:20 <MarceloDK> so do you guys REALLY think snover beats double rush?
Sep 22 20:33:24 <prem> idk i just cant play around that mother fucker :(
Sep 22 20:33:24 <elevator_music> no
Sep 22 20:33:30 <blarajan> supposedly well built team that is just shit on by drilbur
Sep 22 20:33:38 <elevator_music> because pkmn doesnt beat strategy (imo)
Sep 22 20:33:40 <blarajan> protip: if it's shit on by drilbur, it's not well built
Sep 22 20:33:49 <MarceloDK> u has 2 drilburs
Sep 22 20:33:51 <prem> protip: i said a team not shit on by drilbur
Sep 22 20:33:55 <blarajan> no, you have one sandshrew
Sep 22 20:33:55 <MarceloDK> 1 with more defense
Sep 22 20:33:56 <prem> and also
Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss> and way weaker
Sep 22 20:34:02 <iss> lol
Sep 22 20:34:03 <prem> stop being so fucking sarcastic
Sep 22 20:34:14 <blarajan> just not in the mood for this right now lol
Sep 22 20:34:21 <comatt6> blarajan you can always just leave
Sep 22 20:34:28 <comatt6> if you're not in the mood for this
Sep 22 20:34:30 <blarajan> and watch not broken things get banned?
Sep 22 20:34:34 <blarajan> hell no
Sep 22 20:34:36 <prem> okay well
Sep 22 20:34:38 <prem> stop being a dick
Sep 22 20:34:49 <prem> cause you being one isnt helping for shit
Sep 22 20:35:09 * Aerrow has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
Sep 22 20:35:10 <iss> drilbur simply isn't broken
Sep 22 20:35:17 <blarajan> that's really it
Sep 22 20:35:20 <MarceloDK> drilbur isn't
Sep 22 20:35:22 <comatt6> i like what iss said
Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem> i think it really is broken
Sep 22 20:35:23 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:35:24 <MarceloDK> but double rush is
Sep 22 20:35:24 <iss> the mere fact that you can provide it an entire team of support
Sep 22 20:35:29 <iss> and only be an average teams
Sep 22 20:35:30 * Aerrow (~chatzilla@synIRC-561E7DD6.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #council
Sep 22 20:35:30 * ChanServ sets mode +q #council Aerrow
Sep 22 20:35:30 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Aerrow
Sep 22 20:35:31 <iss> team*
Sep 22 20:35:33 <iss> speaks to that
Sep 22 20:35:35 <blarajan> things seem effective when you build a team designed specifically to support it
Sep 22 20:35:41 <blarajan> and when the team design works
Sep 22 20:35:42 <MarceloDK> man
Sep 22 20:35:47 <blarajan> it's not just use hippo use drilbur use sandshrew and win
Sep 22 20:35:52 <MarceloDK> but you can counter these teams with shit
Sep 22 20:36:01 <MarceloDK> double rush you really can solid counter
Sep 22 20:36:07 <MarceloDK> *cant
Sep 22 20:36:09 <comatt6> you're going to need more than 3 pokemon to beat the list of counters that beat double rush
Sep 22 20:36:19 <iss> aerrow when do we vote
Sep 22 20:36:25 <comatt6> well of course there's no such thing as a solid counter to anything
Sep 22 20:36:26 <blarajan> when did pokemon become a game of "if i can't counter it effectively with what i want to use" it's broken
Sep 22 20:36:29 <elevator_music> maybe when rayjay gets back
Sep 22 20:36:31 <comatt6> in general
Sep 22 20:36:33 <iss> ok
Sep 22 20:36:36 <elevator_music> last gen blara
Sep 22 20:36:42 <Aerrow> where did rayjay go
Sep 22 20:36:44 <Aerrow> well; you vote when the convo is over
Sep 22 20:36:53 <Aerrow> rather, when nothing productive comes from it anymore
Sep 22 20:36:55 <blarajan> instead of a game of "if i can't play well i can't just mindlessly expect to win"
Sep 22 20:37:02 <MarceloDK> hum i gtg
Sep 22 20:37:04 <Aerrow> and things get repetitive
Sep 22 20:37:10 <MarceloDK> will be back in like 1 hour
Sep 22 20:37:14 <MarceloDK> it's ok? n.n
Sep 22 20:37:16 <comatt6> ok bai marcelo
Sep 22 20:37:42 <elevator_music> kk
Sep 22 20:37:44 <elevator_music> lets talk about krow
Sep 22 20:37:50 <prem> kk
Sep 22 20:37:52 * MarceloDK has quit (Quit: )
Sep 22 20:37:53 <iss> okay
Sep 22 20:37:56 <prem> drilbur vote will be x-1
Sep 22 20:37:57 <prem> !
Sep 22 20:38:01 <prem> anyway
Sep 22 20:38:02 <iss> my argument on krow
Sep 22 20:38:07 <iss> is the same one i had against gligar
Sep 22 20:38:17 <iss> if it's a top threat in the metagame
Sep 22 20:38:18 <prem> you had no arguement against gligar j/s
Sep 22 20:38:22 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:38:23 <elevator_music> lol
Sep 22 20:38:25 <iss> being able to secure 1 kill isn't broken
Sep 22 20:38:33 <prem> like your reason was very very bad and i refuse to accept that as a reason
Sep 22 20:38:39 <prem> im sorry if thats disrespectful
Sep 22 20:38:41 <iss> 9.9
Sep 22 20:39:08 <comatt6> murkrow requires team support
Sep 22 20:39:14 <elevator_music> no it doesnt >_>
Sep 22 20:39:14 <prem> murkrow requires no team support
Sep 22 20:39:16 <comatt6> which is why I don't *feel* as if it's *broken*
Sep 22 20:39:20 <prem> mixkrow is just stick it on a team
Sep 22 20:39:22 <prem> switch it in
Sep 22 20:39:23 <elevator_music> i literally just slap mixkrow on any team i want
Sep 22 20:39:24 <prem> press brave bird
Sep 22 20:39:25 <prem> something dies
Sep 22 20:39:28 <elevator_music> you cant switch it in
Sep 22 20:39:30 <iss> mixkrow doesn't need team support
Sep 22 20:39:35 <comatt6> well
Sep 22 20:39:36 <iss> eviolite subroost works tons better with support though
Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem> anyone who says otherwise is using it wron
Sep 22 20:39:37 <prem> g
Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6> i'm thinking of the wrong set
Sep 22 20:39:40 <comatt6> sorry
Sep 22 20:39:43 <elevator_music> you double switch or
Sep 22 20:39:45 <comatt6> i use evio subroost
Sep 22 20:39:46 <comatt6> my bad
Sep 22 20:39:48 <prem> okay
Sep 22 20:39:49 <comatt6> i don't use mixkrow
Sep 22 20:39:51 <comatt6> MY BAD
Sep 22 20:39:52 <elevator_music> bring it in on like
Sep 22 20:39:54 <prem> evio subroost needs teamsupport
Sep 22 20:39:55 <prem> i agree
Sep 22 20:39:57 <elevator_music> one of the 4 pokemon it can come in on lol
Sep 22 20:39:59 <comatt6> mixkrow doesn't need support
Sep 22 20:40:14 <blarajan> the thing is and i personally believe this incredibly strongly
Sep 22 20:40:17 <prem> i honestly dont know hwo to describe murkrow
Sep 22 20:40:20 <blarajan> is that while mixkrow is a nuke
Sep 22 20:40:32 <prem> when i speak about it
Sep 22 20:40:33 <blarajan> it's one not all that difficult to play around
Sep 22 20:40:34 <iss> i agree with blarajan
Sep 22 20:40:35 <blarajan> and two it dies so fast
Sep 22 20:40:41 <blarajan> like honestly
Sep 22 20:40:42 <blarajan> sr
Sep 22 20:40:43 <blarajan> sandstream
Sep 22 20:40:43 <prem> being able to kill like 2 mons almost most games
Sep 22 20:40:49 <comatt6> you can either give it power or longevity
Sep 22 20:40:50 <prem> almost all games*
Sep 22 20:40:50 <blarajan> life orb damage
Sep 22 20:40:51 <blarajan> priority
Sep 22 20:40:52 <blarajan> fake out
Sep 22 20:40:53 <comatt6> that's p much the tossup
Sep 22 20:40:57 <blarajan> living a hit and hitting back
Sep 22 20:40:59 <blarajan> those sorts of things
Sep 22 20:41:00 <elevator_music> i have to agree
Sep 22 20:41:00 <prem> but when you play it
Sep 22 20:41:05 <prem> it just
Sep 22 20:41:10 <prem> is really managable
Sep 22 20:41:12 <elevator_music> mixkrow is honestly the strongest pokemon in lc
Sep 22 20:41:13 <elevator_music> but
Sep 22 20:41:14 <iss> here's my take
Sep 22 20:41:19 <blarajan> it being able to kill two mons or something requires you to play well
Sep 22 20:41:22 <iss> lo + brave bird is really really strong but dies really fast
Sep 22 20:41:24 <blarajan> and your opponent not to play well lol
Sep 22 20:41:29 <iss> eviolite subroost is just so hard to play correctly
Sep 22 20:41:34 <blarajan> and when your nuke is dying in like honestly two brave birds tops
Sep 22 20:41:38 <elevator_music> yeah realistically it has trouble staying in and doing major damage
Sep 22 20:41:40 <blarajan> it's not that difficult
Sep 22 20:41:40 <prem> okay being able to kill 2 things and dying fast
Sep 22 20:41:43 <prem> is sitll a +1 for you
Sep 22 20:41:46 <iss> yes but
Sep 22 20:41:46 <prem> so thats not a negative
Sep 22 20:41:47 <prem> !
Sep 22 20:41:49 <blarajan> theory wise it's like
Sep 22 20:41:50 <iss> when it's a top pokemon
Sep 22 20:41:51 <blarajan> holy fucking fuck
Sep 22 20:41:54 <iss> killing 2 is not broken
Sep 22 20:41:54 <blarajan> this thing is ridonkulous
Sep 22 20:41:58 <prem> ya its not broken
Sep 22 20:41:59 <blarajan> but when you play it it's like
Sep 22 20:41:59 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:42:00 <iss> since some pokemon are just better than others
Sep 22 20:42:03 <blarajan> i can force it out with any priority move
Sep 22 20:42:10 <iss> also it can't switch in ever
Sep 22 20:42:11 <blarajan> or anything
Sep 22 20:42:13 <elevator_music> yeah, exactly
Sep 22 20:42:13 <prem> if it can take a sucker punch
Sep 22 20:42:16 <blarajan> and then bam rocks and bam you're p much dead
Sep 22 20:42:23 <comatt6> mhmm
Sep 22 20:42:27 <Charmander> mixkrow can even be setup bait sometimes....
Sep 22 20:42:28 <blarajan> also stop using occa magnemite
Sep 22 20:42:30 <Charmander> like tirtouga
Sep 22 20:42:32 <blarajan> whoever the hell is doing that
Sep 22 20:42:32 <elevator_music> lol occa
Sep 22 20:42:34 <blarajan> eviolite lives
Sep 22 20:42:36 <blarajan> a heat wave
Sep 22 20:42:36 <iss> also can i say something
Sep 22 20:42:37 <blarajan> stop doing that
Sep 22 20:42:39 <iss> like
Sep 22 20:42:47 <iss> the stuff heysup has posted
Sep 22 20:42:56 <iss> it really feels super theorymonny
Sep 22 20:43:08 <prem> doesnt
Sep 22 20:43:09 <iss> it's like if i theorymoned i'd get the same conclusion
Sep 22 20:43:15 <comatt6> not as much
Sep 22 20:43:20 <prem> occa reduce the same as eviolite
Sep 22 20:43:21 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:43:22 <iss> but since i play i sort of get a completely different idea
Sep 22 20:43:23 <comatt6> iss i see what you're saying but not to that extent
Sep 22 20:43:30 <blarajan> nah occa is half
Sep 22 20:43:31 <iss> nah prem occa is 2x evio is 1.5
Sep 22 20:43:32 <blarajan> eviolite is 1.5
Sep 22 20:43:33 <prem> oh
Sep 22 20:43:35 <comatt6> ^
Sep 22 20:43:47 <blarajan> yeah exactly
Sep 22 20:43:50 <comatt6> wait
Sep 22 20:43:50 <elevator_music> nah i disagree
Sep 22 20:43:54 <comatt6> who uses occa mag?
Sep 22 20:43:56 <blarajan> all in all lo krow is on paper a fucking crazy super bamf
Sep 22 20:43:57 <Charmander> plus I dont think 1.5 defense equates to a 33% damage reduction since
Sep 22 20:44:00 <Charmander> there are other factors like HP
Sep 22 20:44:01 <blarajan> but when you play it it's really not that bad
Sep 22 20:44:08 <Charmander> occa is just a direct 1/2 damage
Sep 22 20:44:12 <Charmander> eviolite is more complicated
Sep 22 20:44:14 <elevator_music> it doesnt equate lol
Sep 22 20:44:15 <Charmander> you cant really compare them
Sep 22 20:44:17 <iss> mixkrow is a seen on tv pokemon
Sep 22 20:44:22 <iss> it looks great when you first see it
Sep 22 20:44:26 <blarajan> also eviolite sub roost just isn't hard to beat at all
Sep 22 20:44:26 <Charmander> other than they both survive heat wave
Sep 22 20:44:29 <blarajan> so we're not even discussing that
Sep 22 20:44:30 <blarajan> right
Sep 22 20:44:30 <prem> it is great wwhenever you see it
Sep 22 20:44:30 <iss> but actually isn't quite as good as it seems
Sep 22 20:44:38 <elevator_music> because damage calcs truncate and round at like every step
Sep 22 20:44:41 <comatt6> are we only discussing mixkrow?
Sep 22 20:44:44 <Charmander> archen hard counters non lo krow
Sep 22 20:44:47 <blarajan> honestly i think we should be
Sep 22 20:44:50 <Charmander> and still counters lo krow that isnt mixed
Sep 22 20:44:51 <blarajan> because any eviolite krow
Sep 22 20:44:53 <blarajan> is just not problematic
Sep 22 20:44:54 <blarajan> lol
Sep 22 20:44:55 <elevator_music> archen hardcounters like every krow
Sep 22 20:44:59 <iss> yeah
Sep 22 20:45:01 <elevator_music> except lo dark pulse
Sep 22 20:45:02 <Charmander> not lo mixkrow
Sep 22 20:45:03 <Charmander> yeah
Sep 22 20:45:06 <blarajan> what about sucker punch
Sep 22 20:45:09 <Charmander> roost
Sep 22 20:45:11 <blarajan> oh i guess you can just roost a lot
Sep 22 20:45:12 <iss> sub then roost
Sep 22 20:45:14 <Charmander> yeah
Sep 22 20:45:15 <iss> and rock slide
Sep 22 20:45:17 <Charmander> dont use sub
Sep 22 20:45:18 <Charmander> lol
Sep 22 20:45:24 <comatt6> sub on archen is bad
Sep 22 20:45:25 <iss> fine
Sep 22 20:45:27 <iss> w/e
Sep 22 20:45:30 <Charmander> sub is basically like
Sep 22 20:45:30 <prem> sub on archen is shit
Sep 22 20:45:31 <comatt6> you're just getting closer to defeatist
Sep 22 20:45:35 <Charmander> "i want defeatist to activate"
Sep 22 20:45:55 <elevator_music> i agree with most of heysup's post
Sep 22 20:46:23 <elevator_music> just not the part he underlined and bolded
Sep 22 20:46:26 <blarajan> i would agree with heysup's post is if it ever worked that way when using or playing against murkrow
Sep 22 20:46:29 <elevator_music> because in practice that never happens
Sep 22 20:46:43 <iss> i mean i feel
Sep 22 20:46:47 <blarajan> and since it doesn't hold in practice i don't care how it works in theory
Sep 22 20:46:49 <iss> the main argument for banning mixkrow
Sep 22 20:46:57 <iss> is that "it kills 3 pokemon before recoil kills it"
Sep 22 20:47:03 <iss> but that never actually works
Sep 22 20:47:19 <blarajan> if it wasn't apparent my vote is no ban for both
Sep 22 20:47:39 <comatt6> i don't see how mixkrow can get 3 kills
Sep 22 20:47:43 <comatt6> blarajan it was pretty apparent
Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem> my vote is ban drilbur
Sep 22 20:48:23 <prem> !
Sep 22 20:48:32 <prem> who woulda guessed
Sep 22 20:48:43 <iss> how surprising prem
Sep 22 20:48:46 <prem> i know!
Sep 22 20:49:13 <blarajan> can we just vote lol why do we have to wait?
Sep 22 20:49:25 <prem> we need rayjay and marcelo here?
Sep 22 20:49:35 <blarajan> ok so they vote when they come back >.<
Sep 22 20:49:39 <prem> idk
Sep 22 20:49:42 <blarajan> i know ray jay's vote anyways
Sep 22 20:49:47 <prem> we could if aerrow says something
Sep 22 20:49:50 <elevator_music> discussion is pretty much over
Sep 22 20:49:51 <prem> says okay*
Sep 22 20:49:57 <elevator_music> its just i'd rather wait for marcelo to come back
Sep 22 20:49:57 <prem> we all agree on murkrow
Sep 22 20:50:06 <elevator_music> so we can "discuss" drilbur more
Sep 22 20:50:08 <blarajan> sorry i was a dick i'm just really not having a good day
Sep 22 20:50:09 <blarajan> lol
Sep 22 20:50:23 <comatt6> mhmm
Sep 22 20:50:34 <comatt6> so we're all in favor of keeping murkrow?
Sep 22 20:50:40 <prem> basically
Sep 22 20:50:42 <elevator_music> we can revisit double rush in the future if it ever does become just too dominant
Sep 22 20:50:42 <blarajan> i think i finally fixed my stupid fucking h key
Sep 22 20:50:44 <prem> i mean us 5 do
Sep 22 20:50:47 <elevator_music> but thats pretty obviously not the case
Sep 22 20:50:49 <blarajan> which has been pissing me off in the past twenty minutes
Sep 22 20:50:55 <prem> so
Sep 22 20:50:57 <prem> its not getting banned
Sep 22 20:50:57 <comatt6> cool story bro
Sep 22 20:50:58 <blarajan> since it would just press h when i typed around it
Sep 22 20:51:04 <comatt6> ok keep murkrow
Sep 22 20:51:06 <blarajan> was annoying as hell but i finally fixed that fucker
Sep 22 20:51:07 <elevator_music> aerrow, we're probably going to vote now?
Sep 22 20:51:07 <comatt6> i can live with that
Sep 22 20:51:11 <blarajan> my laptop is finally not annoying
Sep 22 20:51:13 <blarajan> OKAY
Sep 22 20:51:14 <Aerrow> go ahead
Sep 22 20:51:15 <blarajan> DRILBUR VOTE
Sep 22 20:51:17 <prem> BAN
Sep 22 20:51:19 <blarajan> rajan==no ban
Sep 22 20:51:26 <iss> no ban
Sep 22 20:51:30 <iss> 9.9
Sep 22 20:51:48 <blarajan> (ray jay votes no ban just saying but w/e)
Sep 22 20:51:55 <iss> i think we should just wait
Sep 22 20:51:59 <elevator_music> no ban
Sep 22 20:51:59 <iss> until we do this officially
Sep 22 20:52:02 <elevator_music> but "ok"
Sep 22 20:52:05 <elevator_music> we can do it by pm lol
Sep 22 20:52:07 <prem> LOL
Sep 22 20:52:09 <prem> okay
Sep 22 20:52:32 <comatt6> no ban
Sep 22 20:53:13 <elevator_music> that means no ban anyways
Sep 22 20:53:18 <elevator_music> since 4 of us agree
Sep 22 20:53:19 <Aerrow> sum up the bans
Sep 22 20:53:20 <elevator_music> but ok
Sep 22 20:53:26 <Aerrow> the votes*
Sep 22 20:53:31 <Aerrow> how many in favor of banning
Sep 22 20:53:37 <iss> at leash 1 (prem
Sep 22 20:53:47 <iss> at least 4 against banning (iss, blarajan, em, comatt)
Sep 22 20:53:49 <elevator_music> 1 ban, 4 no ban, marcelo and rayjay dont matter
Sep 22 20:53:56 <prem> okay so
Sep 22 20:53:56 <Aerrow> alright
Sep 22 20:53:58 <prem> its nothing banned
Sep 22 20:53:59 <iss> this is for drilbur
Sep 22 20:53:59 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:54:08 <prem> we all agree no murkrow ban right?
Sep 22 20:54:17 <iss> okay murkrow vote now
Sep 22 20:54:18 <iss> i guess
Sep 22 20:54:25 <prem> NO BA
Sep 22 20:54:26 <prem> N
Sep 22 20:54:26 <iss> no ban
Sep 22 20:54:53 <iss> blarajan em comatt?
Sep 22 20:55:03 <blarajan> no ban on either
Sep 22 20:55:09 <blarajan> meta is perect
Sep 22 20:55:12 <blarajan> fect
Sep 22 20:55:32 <iss> comatt6
Sep 22 20:57:45 <blarajan> can we temporarily dissolve the council lol
Sep 22 20:57:51 <blarajan> after this vote it's not like it matters
Sep 22 20:57:55 <blarajan> since the meta's not changing
Sep 22 20:58:19 <blarajan> unless shit like idk sheer force totodile become broken or we figure out how to make double rush actually broken
Sep 22 20:58:20 <blarajan> or something idk
Sep 22 20:58:27 <blarajan> it's not like we need to do anything since our tier doesn't change
Sep 22 20:58:34 <comatt6> i'm back
Sep 22 20:58:35 <comatt6> sorry
Sep 22 20:58:36 <comatt6> what
Sep 22 20:58:38 <comatt6> no ban
Sep 22 20:58:44 <iss> okay that's 4
Sep 22 20:58:50 <iss> no one confirmed for ban
Sep 22 20:59:00 <iss> four for no ban (iss, blarajan, prem, comatt6)
Sep 22 20:59:03 <iss> i guess that's it
Sep 22 20:59:04 <comatt6> does this mean i can go do my hw now
Sep 22 20:59:11 <blarajan> y
Sep 22 20:59:12 <iss> thanks for coming out everyone
Sep 22 20:59:13 <prem> lol
Sep 22 20:59:14 <iss> it's been real