<Racko_Insecateur> I've never managed negative illusions, but I've managed positive ones
<Racko_Insecateur> Self-hypnosis is fun
<Racko_Insecateur> And I'm being genuine, been doing it for almost 3 years now
<Angelhood> That's good to hear.
<Angelhood> Have you tried making a file for yourself?
<Racko_Insecateur> I do
<Racko_Insecateur> That is the point of self-hypnosis, right?
<Angelhood> Well, self-hypnosis can be done in the same manner as meditation.
<Angelhood> Or you can record preset files for yourself to listen to.
<Angelhood> Personally I'm better at listening to my inner voice rather than projecting my outer one.
<Racko_Insecateur> I can't open my eyes during hypnosis yet, and when I'm fully under and blank I can't make myself do so
<Racko_Insecateur> So I'm not that far in
<Angelhood> That's not quite what you're aiming for.
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Racko_Insecateur> I beg to differ
<Racko_Insecateur> I want to zombie around
* Racko_Insecateur graaagh
<Angelhood> Well, controlling yourself mid-trance is difficult.
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm not that good yet
<Angelhood> Getting others to make you aware while fully tranced is far easier.
<Racko_Insecateur> I've still got that annoying drop, it's not a flat gradient yet
<Racko_Insecateur> Been trying to get that
<Angelhood> You've been doing hypnosis for years, so certain things could come extremely easily to you.
<Racko_Insecateur> Triggers are very hard
<Racko_Insecateur> That's the one thing I can't make permanent
<Angelhood> Next time you're under, try spending your time focusing on one very specific thing, like making your skin as hard as chitin, or turning it to a green hue.
<Racko_Insecateur> I can do that
<Racko_Insecateur> Positive illusions or whatever the community calls it
<Racko_Insecateur> I can't do negative yet
<Angelhood> Negative being...?
<Racko_Insecateur> I can't convince myself I have no arms or legs or something
<Racko_Insecateur> I can convince that what I have has changed, there is a platform there to work on
<Racko_Insecateur> And I can make those as permanent as I can, like until I sleep
<Racko_Insecateur> But even over a few months, I cannot instill a trigger that still works after I have slept
<Angelhood> It sounds like your issue comes in the tactile and kinaesthetic senses, by my way of understanding imposing hallucinations.
<Angelhood> That is, it's difficult for you to physically "feel" different and for body parts to "feel" like their position, size, function, etc. is different than how it normally is.
<Angelhood> Do you do a lot of physical work, or have passions in anything like dancing?
<Racko_Insecateur> My proprioception has to keep up with my phantom wings (which puts a bit of a spanner into that)
<Racko_Insecateur> I work in retail, so sometimes I work in a warehouse
<Racko_Insecateur> And I walk a fair deal
<Angelhood> So I'm guessing there's an unconscious perception that the loss of certain functions of your limbs would cause you to be unable to complete your day-to-day tasks.
<Angelhood> That was a huge damper for my Jenny and why she found it particularly hard to become a full-on pony.
<Angelhood> I'd imagine losing your teeth and reforming your face into something more angular is far easier than losing the digits on your hand.
<Racko_Insecateur> I don't dare to touch my wings when it comes to hypnosis
<Racko_Insecateur> I remember what it felt like to be that, so it's pretty easy
<Angelhood> Because you're terrified of the suspension of disbelief causing them to disappear.
<Racko_Insecateur> First hallucination that worked
<Racko_Insecateur> There is a part of me that is terrified when I lie on them too long and they go 'numb'
<Angelhood> Honestly my feelings towards you are mixed because of the negative psychological aspects of transpecies dissociation, but I don't think it's exactly unhealthy, so long as you're not trying to force your physical body to conform to your perceptions.
* Racko_Insecateur laughs
<Angelhood> So I want to make that clear before really saying anything further.
<Racko_Insecateur> You're the second person to say that to me this year
<Racko_Insecateur> Nah, they're there and I can't make them do anything
<Racko_Insecateur> And I won't be offended if you say you don't believe they're there
* Racko_Insecateur shrug
* Angelhood shrugs.
<Racko_Insecateur> I got into hypnosis because I was intrigued
<Racko_Insecateur> Not to do it for anything (the zombie thing was a joke)
<Angelhood> My point was more on the mental construct of being a Scyther.
<Racko_Insecateur> Oh
<Racko_Insecateur> You think I want to be one here?
<Racko_Insecateur> Nah, would cause far too many problems
<Racko_Insecateur> It was the first hallucination that worked for me, but I don't spend all of my time like that
<Angelhood> Depersonalization, dissociation, and in some cases autism in relation to associating with one's interests are the known psychological reasons behind being 'otherkin'. People who consider themselves otherkin are often advicsed to see a therapist and, if necessary, a psychiatrist about their status, because of the mental health concerns of such extreme association.
<Angelhood> I'm not here to push you to see a therapist though.
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Angelhood> I'm sure you can do that on your own time, at your own motivation, and your own desire.
<Angelhood> However, the previous community I was a part of was heavily obsessed with My Little Pony.
<Angelhood> There have been people who have attempted suicide in order to get back to Equestria.
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm not autistic, so that's one of three
<Angelhood> The hypnosis from that community included personality changes to alter people to be more like certain ponies in the show.
<Racko_Insecateur> I spent almost 4 years trying to convince myself that I wasn't Scyther and that I was just crazy or remembering a dream or something
<Racko_Insecateur> That was fun
<Racko_Insecateur> You like niche examples, don't you?
<Angelhood> That's where exercising health insurance really helps.
<Angelhood> Citing personal experience and knowledge from research.
<Racko_Insecateur> Also psychological papers by people who think that if you are x, you are slightly higher chance of being y, therefore x causes y
<Angelhood> Not even the case at all.
<Angelhood> Therefore X is a possible and likely contributing cause to Y.
<Angelhood> There's been a lot of recent work done on dissociation and depersonalization, and how it ties to otherkin as that community grows exponentially in size.
<Racko_Insecateur> Right, let me sound like a gigantic hypocrite here
<Racko_Insecateur> There are people like you who believe it is all personality disorders and abuse
<Angelhood> Two of my best friends are psychology majors and one of my cousins works as a psychologist for criminal rehabilitation.
<Angelhood> It is not all personality order and abuse.
<Racko_Insecateur> There are people who believe literally anything goes and use any pronoun, anything, even when it is obvious they're just looking for attention
<Racko_Insecateur> Most people are somewhere between those two levels
<Racko_Insecateur> Most kin are somewhere between those two levels
<Angelhood> But behaviors are often able to be sorted as 'healthy' or 'unhealthy'. For example, picking one's nails or chewing on the collar of one's shirt is a nervous tic, which is a huge sign of an abnormally large amount of stress in one's life. Such behavior, while minorly self-destructive, is still self-destructive.
<Angelhood> Association with a separate gender is understood and dissected down to neurochemistry, and has been for decades.
<Racko_Insecateur> Ooh, I like you already
<Racko_Insecateur> Cite me some papers on exactly which synapses cause someone to be agender, please, I want to test this on some brains, and cause people to change genders
<Racko_Insecateur> There may be a chemical change, but something causes the chmical change
<Angelhood> The DSM5 was actually wrong to remove the label of 'disorder' from transgender that was present in DSM4, because it was a political move made because of the movement for equality. Being transgender is a disorder with one of two treatments: making an imperfect but extremely complex organ work as it should, or changing the less imperfect but otherwise far simpler body to align with the more comp
<Angelhood> lex organ's perceptions.
<Angelhood> I could poke Katie for her books tomorrow, and get access on the U of M's library.
<Angelhood> Google Scholar doesn't pull up many good results published for free.
<Racko_Insecateur> I noticed that, unfortunately
<Angelhood> As it stands, trating the brain is damned-near impossible compared to treating the body.
<Angelhood> treating*
<Racko_Insecateur> No, I don't want to treat someone
<Racko_Insecateur> I want to break them
<Angelhood> *eyeroll*
<Angelhood> Though, again, there's a different from having a mental disorder and suffering from a debilitating illness.
<Racko_Insecateur> To truly prove this, it is necessary to make it happen in both directions
<Angelhood> Ethics goes against the possibility of that unfortunately.
<Racko_Insecateur> No, in a truly scientific discussion, we leave ethics and morals out of it
<Racko_Insecateur> Is it possible?
<Angelhood> You'd need to go about half a century back to do such work, and if you truly wanted to commit such harm to another sapient life for any reason I'd raise serious questions about your character.
<Racko_Insecateur> You already are, why stop now?
<Angelhood> Theoretically it's possible to make the brain receptive to the sex organs developed to the body and remove the dysphoria from being the wrong gender.
<Angelhood> Or, in a case such as yours, to make the brain receptive at all to sex hormones.
<Racko_Insecateur> Ok, ignoring ethics entirely (because it has been done many times), would it be possible right now
<Racko_Insecateur> ?
<Angelhood> With current medtech, probably not, because the brain's a body within a body, in a sense, and a very complex one at that.
<Angelhood> It's the most prone to alteration out of any other part of the body, and easily the most prone to failure. Also our most important organ by far by extension.
<Racko_Insecateur> So how do you prove this, other than looking for minute changes in the chemistry over time?
<Racko_Insecateur> I would very much like to see these papers please
<Angelhood> I'm, again, unable to do anything while broke and without access to college records.
<Racko_Insecateur> You can't map the individual synapses of a living person (yet)
<Racko_Insecateur> You keep citing these papers, I would like to see these papers
<Angelhood> We still understand the function of the brain by looking at what it takes in and puts out.
<Racko_Insecateur> That is not a proof, that is 'by assumption we know it happens somewhere around here'
<Angelhood> In the same case provided, putting in estrogen in place of testosterone lowers the depression, disgust, depersonalization, and in some cases flat-out self-hatred that comes with being transgender.
<Angelhood> So well, actually, that alteration of the sex itself becomes unimportant in many cases.
<Angelhood> Because the association doesn't matter so much as chemical balance.
<Racko_Insecateur> Ok, was this person told they were given estrogen, was it double blind?
<Angelhood> Double blind tests have confirmed estrogen as an effective drug.
<Angelhood> And testosterone at that.
<Racko_Insecateur> Ok, I want to see this as well
<Racko_Insecateur> Because that is the result you would get if they knew they were taking estrogen
<Angelhood> Here's your article on that.
<Angelhood> http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/hormone-tx_assch_gooren.htm
<Angelhood> Information on drugs is at least readily available because of the support for LGBT equality.
<Racko_Insecateur> None of this is double-blind
<Racko_Insecateur> This is all 'what happens after we give the transsexual person this hormone'
<Angelhood> Eugh. Thanks Google for screwing me over. >.>
<Racko_Insecateur> It's good reading though, seeing which hormones do what in the body
<Racko_Insecateur> Thank you
<Angelhood> So no, it looks like observation hasn't been double-blinded yet for transgender care, which actually really bothers me now.
<Racko_Insecateur> They won't double-blind
<Racko_Insecateur> If they find any correlation at all, they treat it as proof
<Angelhood> Not usually the case.
<Racko_Insecateur> Not always the case
<Angelhood> Especially with the potential harm and side-effects from medicine.
<Racko_Insecateur> When it comes to LGBT stuff, people won't go near it
<Racko_Insecateur> You can't openly sent out a request for 100 agender people who were born male, etc
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm not arguing that if they managed to do a double blind test, it wouldn't be valid (because it would)
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm arguing that they both don't have the resources and that they won't
<Angelhood> Anyways, before we derailed.
<Angelhood> My point was this.
<Angelhood> I can help, but I don't know what I can do that's safe or not for someone who so heavily associates with something like you do.
<Angelhood> Because my understanding comes from a community in which people were so much like what they wanted to be that they couldn't bear being what they were physically.
<Racko_Insecateur> That's the 'feels over reals' group
<Angelhood> Peoples' diets changed. People who were very much male had difficulty with their gender when they shouldn't have.
<Racko_Insecateur> Which is almost independently on tumblr now
<Angelhood> You don't pay any attention to /x/ then I take it.
<Racko_Insecateur> I haven't touched 4chan in a long time
<Racko_Insecateur> Have they moved there?
<Angelhood> My mentor was from there actually.
<Racko_Insecateur> Huh
<Racko_Insecateur> No wonder
<Angelhood> ./x/ has always had those people.
<Racko_Insecateur> I really haven't touched 4cahn then
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Angelhood> But a lot of people from that community were adolescents and very much troubled and abused individuals.
<Racko_Insecateur> I can believe it, being the sort of person who use 4chan
<Angelhood> The question is whether you can tow the line and accept your humanity regardless of what you see and feel on a daily basis.
<Angelhood> Because I've been getting awfully good at breaking that wall of perception. I was taught well.
<Racko_Insecateur> If you're kin, and you don't believe you're kin, can't that be labelled as denial, then overcorrection?
<Angelhood> That implies kin has to be proven as a legitimate state of mind rather than unhealthy association or dissociation.
<Angelhood> My fear is being responsible for a person who's chopped their own fingers off because they can't stand having digits.
<Angelhood> Or peels their skin trying to expose their skeleton.
<Racko_Insecateur> Ok, I keep telling you that there is a difference in the kin community between (I completely forgot the actual names of these because it was long ago) of 'feels over reals' or 'reals over feels'
<Angelhood> Or stops talking in English because they've unconsciously suppressed the ability to do so or feel that it's 'wrong ' or 'not befitting' to speak anything other than their species' name.
<Racko_Insecateur> A lot of people in both can be batshit insane, but that does not cause the whole of the group to be discredited
<Angelhood> Except I've listened to double digits of people crying to me over text or Skype because they're homesick for a fictional location.
<Racko_Insecateur> How large do you envision the kin community to be?
<Racko_Insecateur> Not including people who do not actually believe themself to be kin
<Angelhood> 0.7-0.9% of the population and growing, likely to hit 1-2% of the population before it caps off.
<Racko_Insecateur> Of the US or of the world?
<Racko_Insecateur> Because either way we're talking about a number with 6 or 7 digits
<Angelhood> My statement is on Western nations. That is, any major economic country whose primary spoken language is from a Germanic or Latin root.
<Racko_Insecateur> Out of all of those people, how many do you reckon will go online and talk about it?
<Racko_Insecateur> Just as an informal question?
<Angelhood> The less reserved 5%.
<Angelhood> Or rather, 2.5%, if we're looking at a bell curve.
<Angelhood> That's two standard deviations out. Or three, I forget.
<Racko_Insecateur> Just trying to check the proportion of batshit otherkin over otherkin compared to batshit non-otherkin over non-otherkin
<Racko_Insecateur> 68-95-99.7 if I remember my maths
<Angelhood> Yeah. Statistics didn't interest me as much because of the minute details one needs to memorize.
<Angelhood> Vector calc was fun though.
<Angelhood> Regardless of whatever point you're trying to justify, because we could argue this all day.
<Racko_Insecateur> You can't say that if you're providing proof, you know
<Angelhood> Or all night, rather.
<Racko_Insecateur> 92% of all statistics are made up on the spot
<Racko_Insecateur> ?me grins
<Racko_Insecateur> Aw
<Angelhood> I want to know if you personally think yourself capable of towing the line between being a Scyther and being a human.
<Angelhood> And an understanding that if you start being unable to cope with not being a Scyther and have a desire to enact damaging physical change upon yourself, that you go see a shrink before you cause yourself harm.
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Racko_Insecateur> Got bored of the discussion?
<Angelhood> More that I know I could be up until 3 AM discussing that and I have duties to attend to now so they're not distracting me during Pathfinder tomorrow.
<Racko_Insecateur> Do you honestly think I'm going to stab myself or something? You've talked to me for easily long enough to get a grasp on me
<Angelhood> No, I haven't.
<Racko_Insecateur> No?
<Angelhood> I'm good at empathy and reading people at a surface scan and can get a good grasp of someone's outwards personality.
<Racko_Insecateur> Well, try to get some sort of emotional reaction out of me next time, might be easier
<Angelhood> Again, it's only with minute details and reactions do I see things.
<Racko_Insecateur> Do you want to Skype? Might be easier then
<Angelhood> Like you not being able to impose any hallucinations over your arms and legs leads me to believe you use them frequently for work.
<Racko_Insecateur> I can do ositive, but not negative
<Racko_Insecateur> positive
<Angelhood> Could you alter the structure of your facE?
<Angelhood> face*
<Racko_Insecateur> I've always been genuine, lying takes far too much effort
<Racko_Insecateur> I've given myself a snout that I could feel
<Racko_Insecateur> I can change, I cannot remove entirely
<Angelhood> Could you numb or relocate your teeth?
<Racko_Insecateur> Never tried that one
<Angelhood> I bet you can, because it's not something you're concerned about using in your daily life.
<Racko_Insecateur> Eating, talking?
<Angelhood> Liquid food and a minor speech impediment at worst.
<Racko_Insecateur> If it's subconscious, it's still 'a lack of' something I need to eat and speak
<Angelhood> I will say though.
<Angelhood> My way of breaking the changes has been by inducing an Out-of-Body experience.
<Angelhood> And then getting my subjects to cope with existing on two layers. A physical world and an imposed world.
<Angelhood> The imposed world is what you perceive, the physical what you interact with.
<Angelhood> Like perpetually photoshopping the entirety of existence to suit your needs.
<Racko_Insecateur> So the best way to cure people with this is perpetually exhausting their imagination?
<Racko_Insecateur> I think you can do that easier with drugs
<Angelhood> Not exactly.
<Angelhood> Because, I've found, it's easier to push changes that are far more drastic, including kinaesthetic changes, when there's an inherent detachment between what's physically there and what's perceived to be there.
<Racko_Insecateur> That's just imagining two of yourself and causing stuff to happen to the other person (which is detachment)
<Angelhood> Saying it exhausts one's imagination isn't really what's happening. Jenny's said she was lightheaded after her first few days on all fours because of the difficulty of understanding how everything felt and how her body worked on whim and muscle memory alone.
<Racko_Insecateur> Isn't that the opposite of what you say you're trying to achieve?
<Angelhood> I'm saying that dissociation can cause serious issues.
<Angelhood> Detachment is how I know how to push further changes.
<Angelhood> Jenny and Grace have been perfectly satisfied without issues, but that's because their anchors are very much real.
<Angelhood> That is, why they wnat to remain here and what it means to be a citizen of Earth.
<Racko_Insecateur> They're no different
<Racko_Insecateur> Their kinself is still inside them, just detached from their 'physical body'
<Angelhood> A trans girl in Vancouver who gets screwmed at by her parents on a daily basis feels homesickness on a near-daily basis because she feels like she belongs in Equestria.
<Angelhood> The mind always strives for the perceived ideal.
<Angelhood> Which differs from person to person.
<Angelhood> Sometimes it's for chemical reasons, sometimes for psychological.
<Racko_Insecateur> And if it's the wrong percieved ideal, it's brain damage, right?
<Racko_Insecateur> Or is that just if it's impossible?
<Angelhood> The brain is always imperfect.
<Angelhood> The perfect human is simple and boring and uninteresting.
<Angelhood> Also incapable of achieving anything because they're too ideal of what a human "should" be.
<Angelhood> They end up being average.
<Racko_Insecateur> So what is your end-game here?
* Angelhood shrugs.
<Angelhood> I like making people happy.
<Angelhood> I also like challenging myself.
<Racko_Insecateur> You've succeeded with me, I rather enjoyed this
<Racko_Insecateur> Also that too
<Racko_Insecateur> Been a long time since someone openly challenged me
<Racko_Insecateur> Well, otherkin at least
<Angelhood> The issue is a flawed perception of what perfection and imperfection means.
<Angelhood> There are negative connotations to too many scientific words that has caused too much politics to enter into the field.
<Racko_Insecateur> No, I think you're more concerned about 'self' than 'self-perfection'
<Angelhood> What do you mean?
<Angelhood> I'm using perfect and imperfect in the biological sense.
<Angelhood> "perfect" means "fits the mold exactly and is exactly ideal of the organism's traits"
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm not talking biologically
<Angelhood> "imperfect" means "does not fit the mold, to varying degrees".
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm talking psychologically
<Angelhood> Can you explain?
<Racko_Insecateur> You have a problem when the self is split into two because the second self can conflict with the first self, whereas you're happy with separating the two selves and causing one of them to be dominant
<Angelhood> That's one way of perceiving the situation, yes.
<Racko_Insecateur> Do you see the people you have caused to separate as still having some sort of brain damage or imperfection caused by this?
<Angelhood> 'damage' implies there was harm done to the brain. That can only truly occur physically or chemically.
<Racko_Insecateur> That's why I used 'imperfection'
<Angelhood> Yes.
<Racko_Insecateur> Yes to my question?
<Angelhood> My concern is for the health, happiness, and longevity of the individual.
<Racko_Insecateur> Because in terms of health and longevity, what exactly have you done?
<Angelhood> So while being otherkin is psychologically an unhealthy state of mind, if someone is happy with their lives and 'curing' them involves removing that happiness, then there is no need to change the individual.
<Angelhood> Jenny is human but likes being a pony because of the animalistic, degrading, and dehumanizing nature of it.
<Angelhood> Just as how it's common for many submissives- specifically pets- to associate strongly with a specific animal.
<Racko_Insecateur> And you see this as healthy, and not another form of harmful detachment?
<Angelhood> It's a matter of sexuality as much as identity.
<Racko_Insecateur> As it is with kin
<Angelhood> Sexuality in the sense of being a fetish, though a lifelong one at that.
<Racko_Insecateur> If someone in their previous kin life was of a different sexuality as their human body, would they be wrong for enjoying sex with that gender?
<Angelhood> You're also drawing the assumption of something that's very heavily scientifically held in question: the continuity of life as an eternal thing, or at the very least as something that doesn't start at birth and end at death.
<Racko_Insecateur> Held in question means no proof either way, unfortunately
<Racko_Insecateur> So either you can't use it as proof or we both can
<Racko_Insecateur> Ech I was hoping we wouldn't get in metaphysics, guess it was unavoidable
* Racko_Insecateur grins
<Angelhood> Well, it's not something that can be disproven because it's a conceptual issue.
<Angelhood> Though it's suspect knowledge considering that the transferrence of energy has to occur between the dead and newborn, and electromagnetic radiation would have been given off in such a scenario.
<Angelhood> Most results I've seen that tested for such a thing have come up as 'inconclusive'.
<Racko_Insecateur> Yep
<Racko_Insecateur> Unfortunately
<Racko_Insecateur> The closest we've come was that balseted '21g' fiasco
<Racko_Insecateur> blasted
<Racko_Insecateur> Which was a mess
<Racko_Insecateur> They made an awful film about it too
<Racko_Insecateur> I can't argue metaphysics on the grounds that I don't know if I actually believe in it
* Angelhood shrugs.
<Racko_Insecateur> If you believe in an astral plane, the soul would most likely be there
<Angelhood> You made me miss incursions tonight btw. You're more interesting than the 200 mil in isk I should've banked by now. :P
<Angelhood> Luminiferous ether, which is the closest that physics has ever come to such a plane, was disproven with the theory of relativity.
<Racko_Insecateur> Wasn't that what they first mistook oxidation for?
<Racko_Insecateur> No, that was phlogiston
<Racko_Insecateur> Never mind
<Angelhood> No. The luminiferous ether was the proposed 'plane' on which light moved through.
<Racko_Insecateur> I need to look this up
<Racko_Insecateur> As I said, I have very limited metaphysics knowledge
<Racko_Insecateur> Sorry I couldn't continue with that
<Angelhood> However, explaining it through complex mathematics that didn't require Earth's unmoving spot in the middle of the universe was difficult because light moved at exactly the same speed in any given direction.
<Angelhood> Hence why it's the speed of light and the velocity.
<Racko_Insecateur> General relativity, yeah
<Angelhood> Regardless of your direction and magnitude of travel, light always moves at the same speed in every direction.
<Racko_Insecateur> Yeah, if you were moving at half the speed of light and you shone a beam of light, it would still be moving at the speed of light because it's relative to you not everything else
<Racko_Insecateur> I know how relativity works
<Racko_Insecateur> I promise I know what I'm talking about despite speaking like the Simple English wikipedia
<Angelhood> I have no doubts about your intelligence. I'm just rehashing to make sure.
<Angelhood> I've taken classes in the hard sciences and mathematics.
<Angelhood> I don't know where people generally sid.
<Angelhood> sit*
<Racko_Insecateur> I have A-Levels in Maths and Physics (which are the equivalent of your Senior year exams)
<Angelhood> Have you dealt with calculus in physics and calculus in three dimensions and higher yet?
<Racko_Insecateur> You mean things like the amount of bending in space-time?
<Racko_Insecateur> Four dimension physics is fun
<Racko_Insecateur> No but really, carry on
<Angelhood> No. Have you started applying derivatives, integrals, infinite series, and the like in physics?
<Angelhood> I'm asking about the mathematics you've worked with so far.
<Racko_Insecateur> Yes
<Racko_Insecateur> And I had to write the damned proofs for a load of them
<Racko_Insecateur> But that was almost 5 years ago now
<Angelhood> Egh. Painful.
<Angelhood> Anyways.
<Angelhood> I really don't like debating information in alternative physics and sciences.
<Racko_Insecateur> There's a lot in metaphysics I don't know because it doesn't interest me
<Racko_Insecateur> Psychology is far more interesting to me
<Angelhood> Metaphysics is an inappropriate and stolen title since metaphysics is the physics of physics, which is what scientists are currently at work researching. Dark matter, bosons, antimatter, exotic matter, etc.
<Angelhood> Why the universe works as it does, not what the rules of the universe are.
<Racko_Insecateur> Not anymore
<Angelhood> Again, a stolen term.
<Angelhood> Either way, 'alternative physics' is more appropriate as it suggests an alternate from the generally-accepted knowledge and understanding of physics.
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm going to continue using metaphysics
<Racko_Insecateur> Stolen term?
<Racko_Insecateur> The Greeks used it to mean what you call 'alternative physics'
<Racko_Insecateur> meta- is a Greek term
<Angelhood> meta- is a term used to say that something is self-referential.
<Angelhood> 'metagaming' being to act as a character with knowledge of the game itself.
<Racko_Insecateur> It's a Greek prefix meaning beyond or past
<Angelhood> Alright. I'm confusing the individual word with the prefix. Pardon me.
<Racko_Insecateur> In the nicest possible way, it is 5am here and I'm falling asleep
<Racko_Insecateur> It was a nice talk, hope to hape another after I brushed up on my scientifically invalid metaphysics
<Angelhood> 'Night.
<Angelhood> And I'm not debating metaphysics.
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Racko_Insecateur> Alternative physics then?
<Angelhood> Because I hate arguing something that's pointless and meaningless to debate on.
* Racko_Insecateur chuckles
<Angelhood> There's nothing to say on a topic we literally can't know anything about.
<Racko_Insecateur> You have a bit better handle on me now?
<Angelhood> Kind of. You remind me of a couple people, but you're a delightfully grating person.
<Racko_Insecateur> 'delightfully grating'
<Racko_Insecateur> Need to remember that one
<Racko_Insecateur> I'm just stubborn and I know how certain people's brains react under stress, especially when they don't think they're being taken seriously
<Angelhood> I like fighting with you and it's fun having someone to play the devil's advocate with, and vice vera.
<Racko_Insecateur> You were playing devil's advocate? I was genuine throughout
<Racko_Insecateur> Did not notice inside all your copy-pasting -grins-
<Angelhood> I was being wholly honest in my opinion.
<Angelhood> Doesn't mean I can't keep the debate a debate.
<Racko_Insecateur> After you failed to provide proof, I think it became more of a discussion, my friend
<Angelhood> Can't exactly provide proof I don't have.
<Angelhood> Remind me what I need to get from Katie tomorrow, though.
<Racko_Insecateur> Can't convince me otherwise without proof