-20:05:41- (Anthile) and I am what?

-20:05:44- (~spiral) infj

-20:05:45- (~spiral) :)

-20:05:57- (~spiral) an infj who calls himself intj

-20:05:59- (Anthile) I'm no F

-20:06:28- (Anthile) My only strength is objective analysis!

-20:06:31- (~spiral) yah, you seem to not like the NF temperament

-20:06:36- (Belial) spiral, did you know the first time Anthile did a test he scored INFP?

-20:06:43- (~spiral) no i did not

-20:06:46- (~spiral) but that's interesting

-20:06:51- (Anthile) it's unimportant

-20:06:58- (Anthile) it was a test with 4 choices

-20:07:01- (~spiral) well, the odds of an intj scoring infp is low

-20:07:09- (~spiral) but it's in no way proof of anything

-20:07:20- (~spiral) 4 choices?

-20:07:25- (Anthile) Yeah

-20:07:26- (~spiral) one question, 4 options?

-20:07:42- (~spiral) [10:19] <Belial> They demand 100% honesty yet are among the best liars I have ever encountered, especially with themselves

-20:07:49- (~spiral) ^^ i was thinking of your intj/infj thing when i read that

-20:07:51- • Belial is tempted to poke fun at Anthile, by asking him if he ever considered INFP :P

-20:07:58- (Anthile) It listed the traits of each dichotomy and let you decide what applies more

-20:08:22- (Belial) Honestly though, I think someone has a slight negative bias against F ;p

-20:08:23- (~spiral) 'liars to themselves' being the thing

-20:08:52- (~spiral) yah, i agree that i observe a tendency to 'try and place' into intj

-20:09:03- (~spiral) as if infj is a disease

-20:09:14- (Anthile) I'm just saying that I am more objective than supportive

-20:09:32- (~spiral) well Fe is 'objective'

-20:09:32- (Belial) Objectivity is not exclusive to Ts

-20:10:16- (~spiral) this is an infj, maynard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOlTmwLCtg]

-20:10:16- (Belial) But, I think that a lot of people out there think that being an F somehow equates to being less intelligent and analytical

-20:10:19- (~spiral) er http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOlTmwLCtg

-20:10:45- (Anthile) But I analyze more than... whatever INFJs do

-20:10:54- (Belial) Exactly.

-20:10:55- (~spiral) maynard is super analytical

-20:11:19- (~spiral) if you remember, his music and films are filled with deep analytics of society and consciousness and stuff

-20:11:34- (~spiral) the music videos for tool include references to da vinci, mathematics,

-20:11:44- (Anthile) In that Jesin thread I was the first one to analyze the situation objectively

-20:11:45- (~spiral) 'spiral out' is inspired from the song 'lateralus' by tool

-20:11:50- (Belial) I think you're not quite understanding how Ni-Ti works for an INFJ

-20:12:01- (Belial) You simply abridged the information

-20:12:04- (Belial) that wasnt new

-20:12:07- (~spiral) the fibbonacci sequence embedded in the music/video of lateralus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY

-20:12:37- (Anthile) whatever

-20:12:45- (~spiral) so likewise maynard is very analytical, very into sciences, very big into reason and such

-20:12:48- (~spiral) but he is INFJ

-20:12:57- (~spiral) or rather the word 'but' here is wrong

-20:13:00- (~spiral) it should be 'and he is INFJ'

-20:13:33- (~spiral) this video with math and space, and references to human development (how we dont develop cones and can't see color till a little into life), etc...... all INFJ

-20:13:41- (~spiral) in the interview when he explains his reasoning, it's social related

-20:13:49- (~spiral) his music revolves around social problems

-20:14:01- (Anthile) I'm more of a future-professor of literature or linguistics

-20:14:06- (~spiral) his main track from last album, vicarious, is all about how people enjoy violence vicariously through television images of war

-20:14:40- (~spiral) ok, there again

-20:14:50- (~spiral) infj would be great at lit and linguistics

-20:15:03- (~spiral) literature for intjs...

-20:15:07- (~spiral) not as common

-20:15:07- (Belial) Did you notice how Anthile has the habit of posting something on the channel and if no one responds to it, he says "Ok, so no one cares...."

-20:15:27- (~spiral) yah, he looks for the Fe response

-20:15:30- (Anthile) I do that when I think that people would care

-20:15:32- (~spiral) i noticed this in other places, not that

-20:15:44- (Anthile) but unexplainably don't

-20:15:55- (~spiral) the intjs i know dont spend much time thinking on that stuff

-20:16:03- (~spiral) at most you get a 'oh this isnt working' (and move on)

-20:16:13- (Belial) This is a sign of Fe imo

-20:16:37- (Belial) And in the way you interact with people, you "push" for a response

-20:16:40- (~spiral) another sign of Fe is 'i dont want to be infj because even though yes its objective, most people dont think that, and they will think im less reasoned."

-20:16:52- (Anthile) Like, when I post an article on science and they just continue talking about aquatic mammals

-20:17:08- (~spiral) also i can't see intjs sharing as much as you do

-20:17:33- (Belial) That;s the point Anthile. You care about getting feedback for things you do

-20:17:34- (~spiral) you're active in the forum in a way that is very different from what you'll see if you go to intjforum.com

-20:18:04- (Anthile) It#s not really about the feedback

-20:18:21- (~spiral) if i asked my housemate "do you think these people are chill?" (pointing to any community), he'd prob respond "i dont know"

-20:18:23- (Belial) Why do you care if they saw it then?

-20:18:23- (~spiral) like it was an irrelevant question

-20:18:39- (~spiral) because only question is: do you need something from it?

-20:18:52- (~spiral) if so, how do you get it

-20:18:57- (Anthile) Because I want to discuss it

-20:19:04- (Belial) When you say "ok...so no one cares" it implies that you posted with the intention of receiving response

-20:19:08- (Belial) still

-20:19:09- (~spiral) even with his best friends (im his best friend btw), your far more friendly

-20:19:34- (Belial) Fe is about stimulating people into reacting to something

-20:19:41- (~spiral) my housemate doesn't like discussing people/things

-20:20:00- (Belial) You use Fe to gauge people into discussion, same thing

-20:20:08- (Anthile) whose best friends?

-20:20:17- (~spiral) that's not how we hang - the way we 'be friends' is he'll chill, and i'll chill, and it'll be all quiet for 4 mins, i start packin the bong, he nods at me like 'mmm yah' and i go 'kart?' and he goes 'mmmmm ok'

-20:20:23- (~spiral) ^^ he wont ever answer 'yes'

-20:20:26- (~spiral) he has to do an internal analysis

-20:20:39- (~spiral) but i know him well enough to know when he's going to say yes

-20:20:53- (~spiral) then - he'll mention something about science, and this is how we bond

-20:21:04- (~spiral) and we'll discuess

-20:21:15- (~spiral) or if i want to talk people with him, i frame it in terms of 'society and the functioning of people'

-20:21:32- (~spiral) or if i want to discuss type with him, it becomes an emphasis on the impersonal aspects of it

-20:21:47- (~spiral) if we bring up an actual person in particular, it's like k, data, data, (distraction)

-20:21:54- (~spiral) and back to the comments on type, k we're back on topic

-20:22:03- (Anthile) It just wonders me that apparently I am more objective than most Ts I've met

-20:22:17- (~spiral) people's skills with reason and such vary

-20:22:27- (~spiral) T doesn't imply you're awesome at reason

-20:22:30- (~spiral) it just implies you are impersonal

-20:22:39- (~spiral) T doesn't imply high intelligence or anything

-20:22:45- (~spiral) either

-20:22:50- (~spiral) E does not imply highly social

-20:22:56- (Belial) 20:22:03- (Anthile) It just wonders me that apparently I am more objective than most Ts I've met - Sorry, but how'd you deduce this?

-20:22:58- (~spiral) it just means outward focus, etc

-20:22:59- (Belial) ;P

-20:23:15- (~spiral) (btw most ppl around here are NOT intp)

-20:23:24- (~spiral) like "intp" here in this chan

-20:23:26- (~spiral) totally not intp

-20:23:31- (Anthile) :P

-20:23:31- (~spiral) :D

-20:23:46- (intp) definitely intp

-20:23:50- (~spiral) :P

-20:23:51- (Belial) No seriously, that's a huge claim, I wanna see explanation

-20:23:56- (Anthile) I see that I seem to separate F and T better than most people

-20:24:09- (~spiral) Yes!

-20:24:10- (~spiral) EXACTLY!

-20:24:13- (~spiral) now let me explain this to you

-20:24:16- (~spiral) Fe is an objective process

-20:24:21- (~spiral) it is evaluating objectively

-20:24:23- (~spiral) the social dynamics

-20:24:29- (~spiral) and the situation with relationships

-20:24:32- (~spiral) and people and communities

-20:24:39- (~spiral) such as - objectively determining who is an F and who is acting T

-20:24:44- (~spiral) and when people are making an emotional decision, etc

-20:24:50- (~spiral) but key here is - it pays attention to this

-20:24:54- (~spiral) whereas an INTJ

-20:24:57- (~spiral) with their tertiary Fi

-20:25:03- (~spiral) pays almost -NO- attention to this

-20:25:09- (Anthile) hm

-20:25:13- (~spiral) goes through interactions with people without taking time to give this any thought

-20:25:19- (~spiral) or even having these kind of questions pop into their heads

-20:25:35- (~spiral) you really would need to take them to the side and go 'do u think that person is more a feeler or a T?'

-20:25:37- (~spiral) and they may go 'let me think on it'

-20:25:42- (~spiral) [and begin thinking ---now----]

-20:25:48- (~spiral) thats not natural for them

-20:25:58- (~spiral) my housemate -cannot- for the life of him, read ppl

-20:26:07- (~spiral) some woman was hitting on him for an hr, and he had no idea

-20:26:12- (~spiral) he didnt really think about it...

-20:26:15- (intp) that indicates inferior or diminished Fe or Fi then..

-20:26:17- (~spiral) i was there

-20:26:22- (~spiral) and i knew he was oblivious to this

-20:26:29- (Anthile) Which is the definition of T

-20:26:34- (~spiral) his only registration was of what the topic of discussion was

-20:26:50- (~spiral) yah his Fi kind of sucks

-20:26:50- (Belial) What is the definition of T?

-20:26:51- (Anthile) I'm not really good at reading people

-20:27:11- (intp) one can't define what a T is..just attributes and characteristics of what it represents in behavior

-20:27:15- (~spiral) being good at reading people != F

-20:27:16- (Anthile) having inferior or diminished F

-20:27:26- (~spiral) auto analyzing social dynamics = Fe

-20:27:34- (~spiral) i'm ENTP and we supposedly rock at people

-20:27:37- (~spiral) [understanding them]

-20:27:43- (Anthile) i'm not sure if I do that

-20:27:56- (ziggy) i understand people, i just don't know how to react to them

-20:27:57- (ziggy) :P

-20:28:00- (~spiral) i'm a T...and you can argue that i suck at it, but as an ENTP trait, we are noted for being good at picking up on people

-20:28:18- (~spiral) i think entp does it using Ne+Fe

-20:28:20- (intp) that would be falling into the trap of being biased though

-20:28:21- (Belial) People that have F in their top 2 functions can have "diminished" F

-20:28:41- (Belial) and use "inferior style" of the function

-20:28:53- (Belial) I've seen it before :P

-20:28:53- (~spiral) when you combine Ne+Fe (explorative+automatic social dynamics analysis)---> funneling into our operation modes (Ti + Si)..... we 'dissect' ppl

-20:29:11- (Anthile) Can't we just get done with this and decide I'm actually ENFP?

-20:29:18- (~spiral) no

-20:29:22- (intp) this is ongoing

-20:29:23- (intp) lol

-20:29:26- (~spiral) you nfs might not find this important

20:29:32- (Belial) Anthile, you are the one that doesn't want to settle lol

-20:29:38- (~spiral) but as an nt i must be rational about this

-20:29:42- (~spiral) ( i said that only to be a prick )

-20:29:48- (~spiral) ( and poke at your nf fears)

-20:29:55- (Anthile) Seriously, with all this discussions about my type you could fill a book

-20:30:04- (intp) I'm definitely not nf

-20:30:05- (intp) lol

-20:30:08- (Anthile) and I'm still at square zero

-20:30:14- (Belial) eh

-20:30:16- (ziggy) he's being bullheaded like i was

-20:30:20- (~spiral) with all the explaining to you why you type as, show traits of, and why we think you're infj

-20:30:23- (~spiral) yes we can fill a book

-20:30:30- (ziggy) it's understandable

-20:30:31- (~spiral) the 'why anthile is infj' for ourselves

-20:30:33- (~spiral) is only like two paragraphs

-20:30:35- (Belial) You encourage your type to be discussed

-20:30:48- (Belial) You even made a thread about it

-20:30:57- (~spiral) but trying to show an infj (stubborn as ni with 'im intj cuz infj sounds bad'), yes, that can fill a library

-20:31:02- (Anthile) to get input

-20:31:08- (Belial) And its been going on for almost a year

-20:31:31- (Anthile) I only encourage it because I want answers

-20:31:42- (Belial) Which you wont accept

-20:31:49- (Belial) so whats the point?

-20:32:05- (Belial) Why do you seek input only to reject it?

-20:32:08- (Anthile) Because I believe they are not correct or incomplete

-20:32:29- (ziggy) sounds P'ish

-20:32:38- (Belial) Well, thats another matter ;p

-20:33:09- (intp) any P type that lives behind a computer = spiral :p

-20:33:14- (ziggy) @ incomplete

-20:33:48- (Belial) I think it's more of a Ni thing

-20:33:52- (~spiral) it's not incomplete ziggy, it's rejected

-20:33:54- (Belial) He has his mind set

-20:34:07- (ziggy) ya

-20:34:08- (Belial) and wont accept input that doesnt correlate with it

-20:34:20- (~spiral) anthile is waiting for someone to go 'yes u are intj

-20:34:21- (ziggy) i become the same way

-20:34:21- (~spiral) because....'

-20:34:23- (Anthile) I need objective proof

-20:34:26- (ziggy) i let my bias get in the way

-20:34:26- (~spiral) and then he will link us all to it

-20:34:30- (~spiral) every single time someone mentions infj

-20:34:31- (~spiral) :)

-20:34:32- (ziggy) i don't like when that happens

-20:34:38- (~spiral) even if such a post had no convincing argument

-20:34:45- (~spiral) but loose ones

-20:34:54- (Belial) What is "objective" input?

-20:34:56- (~spiral) like 'heres some intj traits' and anthile would go 'thats totally me'

-20:35:05- (~spiral) but if you ask anthile questions where you go this or that?

-20:35:06- (intp) I was about to ask that, Belial

-20:35:08- (~spiral) he will pick Fe over Te

-20:35:09- (~spiral) :)

-20:35:12- (~spiral) i know cuz i did -.-

-20:35:39- (Anthile) Objective is when I declare it to be objective

-20:35:40- (~spiral) but if you study Fe o_o

-20:35:48- (~spiral) you'll realize you may have misconceptions about it

-20:35:53- (~spiral) like that it's irrational

-20:35:55- (~spiral) because it isn't

-20:35:56- (Belial) lol

-20:36:12- (~spiral) Fe is considered more objective than Ti

-20:36:31- (Belial) Ni fortress - Objective is when I declare it to be objective - we;re done

-20:36:32- (intp) any function can be irrational, it depends the way its being used

-20:36:34- (Anthile) o_o

-20:36:43- (~spiral) it's true, Fe is more 'empirical'

-20:36:59- (~spiral) but this is tricky waters because Ti is so systematic that despite it's subjectivity, it is hardcore reason

-20:37:12- (~spiral) however....Fe is objective in the pure sense

-20:37:24- (Belial) because it looks at what is

-20:37:30- (~spiral) it looks only at 'what is'

-20:37:32- (~spiral) yes, exactly

-20:37:44- (Anthile) you just try to confuse me ;__;

-20:37:45- (~spiral) it is emotion related but it is objective

-20:38:01- (~spiral) because if you objectively realize your community hates you

-20:38:04- (~spiral) you feel like shit

-20:38:16- (Belial) Anthile: I'm going to deconstruct your Ni piece by piece :D

-20:38:17- (~spiral) but your way about determining that and what your looking for is objective

 

-20:38:42- (Anthile) I have Schizoid Personality Disorder, I never let emotions decide what I do

-20:39:00- (Belial) I dont buy that diagnosis at all

-20:39:01- (ziggy) never?

-20:39:02- (ziggy) wtf

-20:39:03- (~spiral) fe will ignore one's own emotions for the greater good

-20:39:12- (intp) you just labeled yourself. lol

-20:39:13- (~spiral) actually fe can lead sometimes to self-sacrificing behavior

-20:39:17- (intp) you just let your emotions dictate that

-20:39:25- (~spiral) (for the greater good)

-20:39:35- (Belial) F isn't letting emotions decide, btw

-20:39:43- (~spiral) (and that decision is made in a reasoned way, and argued using reason...this is better because ....etc...)

-20:39:55- (~spiral) (where as Fi will be like 'this is how i feel!')

-20:39:57- (ziggy) i think everyone makes decisions with their emotions

-20:39:58- (Belial) emotions are always involved, by the fact of you being human

-20:40:03- (ziggy) my guess

-20:40:12- (Anthile) I'm often mistaken for a human

-20:40:19- (Belial) ...

-20:40:21- (ziggy) i don't think a decision can be made without emotions

-20:40:22- (~spiral) lol

-20:40:23- (intp) you're dreaming Anthile

-20:40:58- (~spiral) ^ i believe this intp is ISFP

-20:41:04- (Anthile) The thing with me being F just doesn't sound right in contrast to what I experienced in my life

-20:43:16- (Anthile) no one in RL would describe me as F

-20:43:28- (~spiral) anthile: and i saw some people say maynard is INTP

-20:43:34- (~spiral) just because he sounds so rational

-20:43:36- (~spiral) (protected)

-20:43:42- (~spiral) and he is rational

-20:43:53- (~spiral) there's nothing that says infj is irrational

-20:44:01- (~spiral) that's not like a contradiction