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By assz on the 9th of Feb 2010 11:23:36 PM Download | Raw | Embed | Report
  1. -22:07:19- (spiral) so...fukyo
  2. -22:07:24- (spiral) last night, adymus camei n'
  3. -22:07:32- (spiral) and we spatted about anthile
  4. -22:07:43- (spiral) in short, he thinks anthile is intj
  5. -22:07:44- (spiral) er intp
  6. -22:07:50- (spiral) and i still think the same
  7. -22:08:02- (spiral) but most interesting was that adymus believes that Ni is experienced 'as a model' too
  8. -22:08:06- (spiral) in the Ti fashion
  9. -22:08:11- (spiral) and that Ti and Ni are closely related
  10. -22:08:17- (spiral) but i was saying no, Ni and Ne are closer related
  11. -22:08:26- (spiral) anyway
  12. -22:08:32- (spiral) it was interesting
  13. -22:08:36- (spiral) anthile still has no idea
  14. -22:08:38- (spiral) of course
  15. -22:08:42- (spiral) so in short....
  16. -22:09:06- (spiral) ive decided how i type ppl is all that matters 0_o
  17. -22:09:10- (spiral) anthile is infj
  18. -22:09:14- (spiral) and thats that
  19. -22:09:17- (Unimatrix0) Imma gonna put up logs of our convos on pastebin to show him
  20. -22:09:19- • spiral rubs his hands clean of the whole matter
  21. -22:09:28- (spiral) i did some of that
  22. -22:09:36- (spiral) altho i wasnt doing very good
  23. -22:09:44- (spiral) altho it came to my attention that i type a whole lot
  24. -22:09:50- (Unimatrix0) Yeah well, you know we'll never type him anyway
  25. -22:10:00- (spiral) *i didnt do it that well, i just found quick bits, didnt try that hard
  26. -22:10:04- (Unimatrix0) neither of us
  27. -22:10:14- (spiral) you mean successfully type?
  28. -22:10:16- (spiral) cuz i did type him
  29. -22:10:18- (spiral) i typed him as infj
  30. -22:10:19- (spiral) o_o
  31. -22:10:32- (Unimatrix0) I meant make him agree on it
  32. -22:10:38- (spiral) oh yah
  33. -22:10:41- (spiral) i was hoping to show him
  34. -22:10:49- (spiral) but now that i know how long its been
  35. -22:11:05- (Unimatrix0) He did agree, but then as asoon as a straw shoves up, there he goes clinging ot it
  36. -22:11:08- (spiral) and after i heard him say that why does he have to learn it if theres all these experts around the corner?
  37. -22:11:15- (spiral) i said, you wont be confident of your type till you learn this stuff for yourself
  38. -22:11:27- (spiral) hehe yah
  39. -22:11:32- (spiral) i noticed that too o_o
  40. -22:11:36- (Unimatrix0) yeah, that bothers me too
  41. -22:11:38- (spiral) and sometimes he gets into going INFJ \o/
  42. -22:11:48- (Unimatrix0) because he provides no argumentation himself
  43. -22:11:56- (spiral) yah o_O i realized
  44. -22:12:01- (Unimatrix0) but has no problems getting everyone else to argue bout it
  45. -22:12:05- (spiral) but i guess what matters is expanding on our capacities
  46. -22:12:15- (spiral) and so its been useful in learning more and as best i can tell, he is INFJ
  47. -22:12:32- (spiral) and its interesting Adymus thinks he is INTP
  48. -22:12:40- (spiral) but until i hear a good reason (as im sure Adymus would say regarding my opinion)
  49. -22:12:46- (spiral) i see no reason to think he is NTP
  50. -22:12:51- (spiral) adymus says he is 'clearly Ti'
  51. -22:12:54- (spiral) and that threw me off a lot
  52. -22:13:10- (spiral) because in response to NTP first thing that comes to my head is 'he is so obviously not Ti'
  53. -22:13:20- (Unimatrix0) Anthile is sooo vague
  54. -22:13:22- (spiral) well alongside that Fe thing
  55. -22:13:26- (Unimatrix0) no way thats Ti
  56. -22:13:33- (spiral) i went on a rant about Ti loving categorization
  57. -22:13:36- (spiral) and dissecting and breaking things apart
  58. -22:13:41- (spiral) and having clear distinctions
  59. -22:13:44- (spiral) how it needs them
  60. -22:13:47- (spiral) and how anthile has no drive to do this
  61. -22:13:49- (spiral) and even avoids it
  62. -22:13:57- (spiral) but then adymus said Ni does that too
  63. -22:14:06- (spiral) and then we got into a whole discussion on that instead o_o
  64. -22:14:12- (spiral) cuz he said Ni is like a model
  65. -22:14:17- (spiral) like you visualize the model/aware of the model
  66. -22:14:25- (spiral) and i said Ni is more like going from one corner of the system to another corner
  67. -22:14:28- (spiral) and jumping between items
  68. -22:14:34- (Unimatrix0) Yeah, I kinda agree on that, but it's still diff than Ti
  69. -22:14:35- (spiral) but not holistically being aware liek top-view and tweaking it
  70. -22:14:47- (spiral) also i think to any degree Ni is modelling
  71. -22:14:50- (spiral) in the way Si maps and models too
  72. -22:14:55- (spiral) thats more like 'why' it is
  73. -22:14:58- (spiral) thats not how you experience it
  74. -22:15:04- (spiral) you dont experience Si as a mapping process
  75. -22:15:07- (spiral) or like an activity
  76. -22:15:10- (spiral) its a perception process
  77. -22:15:11- (Unimatrix0) http://forum.infjs.com/showpost.php?s=030e1599bbcb05fe0f13569d2280c487&p=227527&postcount=6
  78. -22:15:24- (spiral) and that was the big distinguishment i was making: one is perception (you experience it)
  79. -22:15:29- (spiral) and the other is judgment (you engage with it)
  80. -22:15:35- (spiral) when doing Ti, you are -DOING- Ti
  81. -22:15:42- (spiral) you are categorizing, breaking apart, analyzing, etc
  82. -22:15:46- (spiral) modeling to yourself
  83. -22:15:57- (spiral) and Ni is a perception process
  84. -22:16:14- (spiral) it can be led like Ne
  85. -22:16:21- (spiral) but the experience is very different
  86. -22:16:23- (Unimatrix0) ^this guy here is kind of a mbti expert on the INFJ forum
  87. -22:16:27- (spiral) in that respect in itself
  88. -22:16:40- (spiral) oh yah?
  89. -22:16:45- (spiral) o_O time to read even more posts
  90. -22:16:47- (spiral) by this person
  91. -22:16:49- • spiral bookmarks
  92. -22:17:18- (spiral) "and then all of a sudden things will just become clear. "
  93. -22:17:22- (spiral) see, thats the key diff
  94. -22:17:28- (spiral) Ni is exploring around that model
  95. -22:17:33- (spiral) 'finding its way through it, getting familiar with it'
  96. -22:17:40- (spiral) seeing where it can go, what possibilities are emerging and possible
  97. -22:17:44- (spiral) and it goes aha
  98. -22:17:47- (spiral) .....Ti
  99. -22:17:52- (spiral) looks at this, that
  100. -22:17:56- (spiral) and starts making a diagram
  101. -22:18:05- (spiral) not how to make it through from within the diagram
  102. -22:18:16- (spiral) ok wait i got an analogy that im sure almost everyone will hate
  103. -22:18:17- (spiral) o_O
  104. -22:18:19- (spiral) ...
  105. -22:18:23- (spiral) Ni is like playing a first person shooter
  106. -22:18:30- (spiral) and mastering it and knowing ur way in out and knowing how the game is going to go
  107. -22:18:32- (spiral) before it does
  108. -22:18:38- (spiral) Ti is like a map editor
  109. -22:18:48- (spiral) where your editing and designing the map and gameplay
  110. -22:19:01- (spiral) o_o das my analogy and i loves it, and im sure most hates it
  111. -22:19:24- (spiral) Ni isnt architecting/designing
  112. -22:19:28- (spiral) as much as exploring
  113. -22:19:36- (spiral) and finding possibilities, like NE does
  114. -22:19:39- (spiral) just introverted
  115. -22:19:45- (Unimatrix0) My argument for anthile not being Ti are the following:
  116. -22:20:12- (Unimatrix0) 1.Very vague and ambiguous, I've never seen him be clear cut in communication
  117. -22:20:38- (Unimatrix0) 2.Does not pay attention to particularities and their subjectivity
  118. -22:20:57- (Unimatrix0) 3. Instead leans toward universality
  119. -22:21:10- (spiral) ah yes thats a big one
  120. -22:21:15- (Unimatrix0) does not pick apart, create distinctions
  121. -22:21:36- (spiral) u make a much better presenter than my stoned ass at 3am
  122. -22:21:41- (spiral) u should mention this to adymus
  123. -22:21:42- (spiral) o_o
  124. -22:21:45- (Unimatrix0) He will say "its transcendental"
  125. -22:22:07- (ziggy) i followed part of that conversation last night
  126. -22:22:20- (spiral) yes i went into that too, the Ni love of ambiguous, the beyond words, the intangible...and some things arent capable of being captured -- where as Ti might give it a shot and if anything, hit into too much complexity
  127. -22:22:25- (spiral) zig zag :)
  128. -22:22:26- (Unimatrix0) Very opinionated, he himself told me he is judgmental, lemme see him deny now :p
  129. -22:22:37- (Unimatrix0) Ti strives to be as neutral as possible
  130. -22:22:39- (spiral) lol
  131. -22:22:43- (spiral) yep
  132. -22:22:56- (spiral) and would be real reluctant to confess to judgementalness
  133. -22:22:57- (ziggy) my Ti is at odds with my Ni if that is the case
  134. -22:22:59- (spiral) (Ti dom person)
  135. -22:23:22- (spiral) and if did confess would caveat with 'to the human degree, i am subjective entity, but.... less so than other people'
  136. -22:23:22- (spiral) :P
  137. -22:23:37- (spiral) your Ti is at odds with your Ni?
  138. -22:23:42- (spiral) id think they'd make a powerful team
  139. -22:23:51- (ziggy) i do tend to be judgmental, though at the same time i strive for neutrality
  140. -22:23:52- (spiral) going back to my analogy of doom, itd be the map maker and gamer in one
  141. -22:24:29- (spiral) well in one way Ti 'judges'
  142. -22:24:34- (spiral) it assesses everything
  143. -22:24:37- (spiral) and has 'current theories'
  144. -22:24:50- (spiral) but it tries to remain neutral in doing the assessment
  145. -22:25:01- (spiral) to understand without they themselves involved
  146. -22:25:06- (spiral) but then on that understanding yah, normal human stuff
  147. -22:25:12- (spiral) forms opinions etc
  148. -22:25:20- (ziggy) ahh ok
  149. -22:26:28- (spiral) i say current theories too cuz unlike Ni, Ti is always not completely certain
  150. -22:26:37- (spiral) its the 'best answer with known information'...always
  151. -22:26:57- (Unimatrix0) Here's a funny thing
  152. -22:26:59- (spiral) to share a Ti comprehension is to share a snapshot of its current state
  153. -22:27:21- (Unimatrix0) I'd recommend him to browse the INFJ forum (it has really good stuff)
  154. -22:27:30- (Unimatrix0) but you know what's his reaction
  155. -22:27:35- (spiral) didn't he?
  156. -22:27:42- (spiral) he linked me to an infj article once
  157. -22:27:43- (Unimatrix0) I dislike that place
  158. -22:27:45- (spiral) (from that domain)
  159. -22:27:53- (Unimatrix0) I dislike Shai gar
  160. -22:27:54- (spiral) oh i c
  161. -22:28:00- (Unimatrix0) I dislike other INFJs
  162. -22:28:01- (spiral) shai gar says hes entp tho
  163. -22:28:13- (spiral) so he must be AWESOME \o/
  164. -22:28:17- (Unimatrix0) It's a "bad" forum
  165. -22:28:18- (spiral) :D
  166. -22:28:30- (Unimatrix0) This is all showing how opinionated he is
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