6/10 Meeting Minutes

Yelnoc: ok, so welcome everybody to the second Restore the Fourth official IRC meeting

Yelnoc: As I said earlier, we're going to be using a speaking rotation

Yelnoc: for the first part of this meeting, liasons from each working channel (#r4dev, #r4design, #r4info, and #r4marketing) will discuss what all those channels have been and are working on

Yelnoc: after each of them speaks, I will open up the floor for people to speak on taht topic, one at a time

Yelnoc: if you want to speak after the liason, PM me. Please do not PM me if you don't have some specific contributino to make on that topic

Yelnoc: please also have your say typed out before hand so that you can copy/paste it into the channel for the sake of time

Yelnoc: after a few people have spoken in turn, the channel will be unmuted for 3 minutes for discussion

Yelnoc: then muted again and we will move on to other items of business

Yelnoc: the first channel update will be from #r4dev

Yelnoc: sandwichcat will be providing us with it

Yelnoc: again, if you want to speak on that topic, PM me now

Yelnoc: only the first handful who PM me will get a turn for the sake of time so again, please be quick and please have something to say

Yelnoc: go ahead sandwichcat

sandwichcat: right on thanks. copy and pasting agaion

sandwichcat: restorethefourth.net is our website. it is currently a splash page.

sandwichcat: We're storing the code on github, hosting on Heroku (free tier for now) and static is on AWS.

sandwichcat: there's been a LOT of chatter about the stack and where we're hosting. it's public knowledge. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. most of the time you keep that sort of thing secret. In this case I'm not sure it matters.

sandwichcat: Goal is to keep the site up and running as cheap as possible for the next 24 days or so.

sandwichcat: The stack is django + mezzanine / postgres / bootstrap.

sandwichcat: For this stack, max cost should be about $1k for the month. That's a lot of money, but also it isn't. We have a lot of people behind this, it would be great if we could try to raise at least half of that amount for the site over the next couple of days.

sandwichcat: If someone else wants to get a different stack up and running over the next couple of hours and convert everything over to that, be my fucking guest, but I'd rather not get involved with the switch. I'd say that effort would be better spent raising money to support what we have. $1k is not a lot of cash.

sandwichcat: To reiterate: we need content at this point. When we have it, the site will basically look like a vanilla bootstrap installation (search bootstrap if you're not familiar). We can drop design in after the fact.

sandwichcat: that is all

sandwichcat: oh one more thing

sandwichcat: if anyone wants to get added to the github repo, actively participate in #r4dev and just ask to be added as a collaborator

sandwichcat: that is all

Yelnoc: thank you sandwichcat

Yelnoc: our first speaker on the topic of web dev will be derp_infinite

Yelnoc: derp_infinite?

derp_infinite: I'd like to bring up website content. We've got a doc going "http://collabedit.com/53aqk " where we are throwing out ides.

derp_infinite: Sorry, didn't do a full write up so I'm not going to be coppying and pasting.

derp_infinite: I think I've come up with some basics of site nav and purpose but I want to run it by more people and see if it fits.

derp_infinite: The main points are

derp_infinite: 1. Informing the public about what's really going on and how it impacts them.

derp_infinite: 2. Providing them with congressional voting information so they know whether they are being represented correctly.

derp_infinite: 3. Helping them connect with other people/groups in some location so they can help do something about it.

derp_infinite: I need some copy writers to help work on the into / mission statement.

derp_infinite: I also need some people to do some basic list compiling that we can use on the site.

Yelnoc: for the record, the content writing is being facilitated in #r4info, so we'll get to discuss this more once we move to that topic

derp_infinite: Many hands make light work so please PM me if you want to help. I'd like to break up the work and reduce time commitments as much as possible.

derp_infinite: Fair enough.

derp_infinite: That's all I've got for now.

Yelnoc: thank you for comments, derp_infinite

Yelnoc: andrewpage is next

Yelnoc: lol

Yelnoc: once i voice you

andrewpage: My original plan for the website was to have an easy to use system for protest locations. Basically a google maps API based system. I mentioned this yesterday, but as I'm still in school I haven't had a chance to really work with it and discuss it with the other devs.

andrewpage: It looks like sandwich cat has stepped up to run the dev part of this, so I'd like to hear what he has to say about this.

andrewpage: It would allow organizers to set up protest dates and times in cities, and allow anyone interested to sort through it and find one.

andrewpage: The subreddit is a bit of a mess now

Yelnoc: indeed it is

Yelnoc: sandwichcat?

andrewpage: and as the subreddit is the main way we're organizing protests, I'd like to fix that

sandwichcat: andrewpage: i think that all sounds good. can it be done on simple pages added via a cms for now?

sandwichcat: andrewpage: for instance, put up a New York page for now

sandwichcat: andrewpage: maybe have other pages that are linked from the NY page. Brooklyn for example.

sandwichcat: andrewpage: its quick and dirty but we can clean up after the fact

Yelnoc: alright, so that is a discussion for the channel, I think

Yelnoc: I promised one more person a turn on the rotation, and then we are going to open up the floor for a brief discussion

Yelnoc: go ahead blackphoenix

BlackPhoenix: Thanks for the floor Yelnoc, I have a question for sandwhich cat.

BlackPhoenix: Long term, sandwhichcat. What are your cost estiments?

sandwichcat: BlackPhoenix: there is no long term

sandwichcat: BlackPhoenix: we need the site for 24 days

sandwichcat: BlackPhoenix: a few days longer if we want to leave it up for media. but at that point we can decide what to do

BlackPhoenix: Ok, thanks

Yelnoc: alright, so now I'm going to open the floor for 3 minutes of open discussion

Yelnoc: 3 minutes folks, but if your concerns aren't addressed, remmeber we will be breaking to the relevant chanels after this meeting

Yelnoc: go

restorethefourthweb: I think we should be looking more long term with the website? Are these protests going to stop after July 4th?

andthentheskyfell: we're going to be around for more than 21 days guys. if we want to make a difference, we have to stick around.

MouthingOff: I think Black Pheonix is on to something though. We should have a crew working on long term ideas. to keep this spirit alive or we'll just end up back where we started

Entrarchy: I can host the website with a Dreamhost sub-lease and give all teh devs full access accounts. Let me know if this is desirable and I'll set up the sublease, but you'll have to trasnfer the domain to me.

kiwi_44155: Longer time frame

Restore4: I think right now

MarkSkull: GoDaddy?

f1123581321: Super latecomer here, can anyone give me a quick rundown?

RestoreLA: My roommate and myself are organizing a restore the fourth LA community

Entrarchy: Whomever is in charge of hosting, go ahead and PM me if interested.

Green_leaf: IS there any contingency plan for if the feds shut down any of the websites? Seeing as the internet it the best way to organize it would make sense for them to attack us on this front

restorethefourthweb: hell no godaddy

Kampfers: i agree with the popular sentiment. we should be planning to host longer than just 20ish days

kslez: NOT GoDaddy.

Restore4: we need to focus on the protests on the 4th because that will be our voice to the piblic

RestoreLA: I have purchased restorethe4th.la

mrthomast: I also don't understand all the confusion over the website development- I'm not a web developer, but I do know that I could have launched a wordpress site on the domains I have that would have been sufficient for organization purposes and it wouldve only taken me a few hours and cost less than $200

freeze4096: Regarding the long-term, it would be nice to be able to keep the site for posterity, especially if the event becomes a raging success. Should be cheap to do, as we won't need the same ability to scale.

RestoreLA: and I have started a facebook page

MrEmmaWatson: Hello, so I made a rough little sketch of webpage. I want to focus more on the organization aspects though. One thing i loved about the http://www.march-against-monsanto.com/p/blog-page.html page is that it had all the events labeled out. https://mega.co.nz/#F!j1wlgLbQ!b5rzUBPXPqAU3NxKYx3xXA  this is my page. It's...alright i'm not much of a logo de

MrEmmaWatson: signer. I'd like to see something like in my Organize panel on my page on the restorethefourth webpage.

mrthomast: I'd like to say that I dont think we're going to need the site for only 24 days- I think we'll need the site till the Patriot Act is repealed and the NSA is shut down. This isn't going to be so easy as one protest

SpecifyOther: May be OT, but I was wondering if we had a subgroup going for educating the public on the use of encryption and anonymization tools.

RestoreLA: https://www.facebook.com/RestoreThe4thLA

SpecifyOther: Essentially, apply the fourth for yourselves

MouthingOff: @Restore4: yes i think we need the larger group of us to focus on 4 July but a smaller group should be organizing for longer term

sandwichcat: Regarding hosting for longer: don't worry about longer for now. just worry about 24 days.

snoo_9748: This movement won't succeed if it isn't long term. The protest(s) on the 4th of July should be viewed as just the beginning. The "coming out" so to speak of a larger movement.

sandwichcat: if the site has to come down briefly after that due to cost, we'll figure it out

Restore4: I agree with the talking sandwich

sandwichcat: we only care about the next 24~ days

gabe_restorephilly: we can think long term after we deal with the short term

sandwichcat: yes

sodonne: I concur with sandwichcat

mrthomast: I think we need to think ahead more- there definitely is a long term aspect to our mission

cralledode: long term could go a number of different ways

cralledode: depending on the impact we have

Expl0siv0: ^

kiwi_44155: Can we expect $1000 per every 24 days of hosting?

MouthingOff: we can delegate teh responsibility though

Fourthe4th: Think short term to help build a long term

vArouet-NYC: As for something to link to site-specific planning (NY in particular), Manhattan and Brooklyn (and Queens, the Bronx, and SI) shouldn't have different pages. They should all go under NYC.  I know Brooklyn was just an example, but I just wanted to clarify.

mrthomast: If we only think short term- we're going to waste time and money

sandwichcat: mrthomast: you are correct, but we can't think that far ahead because we don't know what is going to happen

kiwi_44155: Or are there startup costs included in that $!000?

rt4patriot: I agree that 7/4/13 has to be our "coming out" and can't be our only focus or purpose

sandwichcat: kiwi_44155: if we stick with heroku maybe. that's like max cost

sodonne: but that should not stop up from thinking longer term either of course. acting short term, thinking long term

MouthingOff: the transfer from our short term goal to our long term goals should be seemless and without down time

gabe_restorephilly: obviously there's a long term mission, but we need to focus on now

sandwichcat: estimate

f1123581321: @snoo_9748 agreed, needs to be the beginning of something longer-term

restorethefourthweb: We need to think about how we are going to raise this

rt4patriot: or this honestly won't accomplish much of anything other than attention for a short period of time

mrthomast: good poin t, sandwhichcaty

sandwichcat: remember: $1000 is not a lot of money

snoo_9748: By all means, focus on the July 4th protests for now. Just keep in mind while planning that we MUST go further, continue to grow and keep up the pressure after that date.

RT4: Whats the purpose of the site? Arranging protests? Spreading the word? Because I can see short term if it's just for organizing protests

sodonne: as far as the site I mean, just my .02

derp_infinite: Have you see nwhat we have so far? It's a circle. All this talk about the site is pointless unless we get something meaningful on it.

LWT: Sup kids

freeze4096: Ok this is too much, no?

gabe_restorephilly: we want this to become long term, but we need the efforts on the 4th to make that more plausible

restorethefourthweb: snoo: exactly

sandwichcat: we have a lot of people. i'll throw in as much of my own cash as i can

Yelnoc: moving on

sandwichcat: i can probably do a few hundered

Yelnoc: next we will discuss #r4design 's progress

sentient_galactic: hey everyone

sentient_galactic: so we've mainly been working on logo ideas

sentient_galactic: from markskull:

sentient_galactic: http://creative365.larrywestproductions.com/art/restore_the_fourth.jpg

sentient_galactic: http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/LuvataciousSkull/idea_2_zpsadaf986f.jpg

sentient_galactic: from redetteuser:Â http://imgur.com/hGf3vFn

sentient_galactic: mremmawatson has thrown together a rough site:Â https://mega.co.nz/#F!j1wlgLbQ!b5rzUBPXPqAU3NxKYx3xXA

sentient_galactic: mine : https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/ZfRAcSHTfuny7vWbmvMD

sentient_galactic: if you have any suggestions and specifics, go to #r4design

sentient_galactic: when the devs and info teams have solidified content, you'll have to send someone over

sentient_galactic: that's it

Yelnoc: thank you sentient galactic

liqudExe_: Guys I know we are all full of ideas but lets take a few days get the framework and processes in place then we can start looking at long term direction

Yelnoc: ok, so the person who was going to go, MrEmmaWatson, doesnt seem to be here

Yelnoc: go ahead freeze

Yelnoc: freeze4096

freeze4096: Are we sticking with a single version of the name? Restore the Fourth and Restore the 4th are inconsistently appearing everywhere, including these early designs. Would be nice to choose one and stick with it.

freeze4096: A lot of work is going to be thrown out the window simply because work was "wasted" without knowing the basics.

Yelnoc: The names vary based most of the time on space requirements

Yelnoc: for example, our twitter handle is @restore_the4th

Yelnoc: restorethefourth is too long

Yelnoc: and @restorethe4th is taken, if you were wondering. We in the social media team are attempting to contact the owners

Yelnoc: so I think that is that

Yelnoc: thanks freeze, we can discuss that and other design questions for the next three minutes on the floor

freeze4096: Maybe it's not a real concern, people searching with google/bing/etc will find us with either variant, but it seems sloppy to not settle on a standard naming convention in the media.

freeze4096: If it's not a concern, free for all in terms of media is simple enough. :)

freeze4096: done!

Yelnoc: one thing, the next segment will be on #r4info, so if you want to talk about that, PM me

Yelnoc: go

andrewpage: my idea is that we should be using RestoreTheFourth as the official name, and maybe RestoreThe4th as a twitter hashtag or something.

Restore4: Freeze is 100% right, we need to chose one for brand purposes

seashoreandhorizon: agree

Kampfers: agree

spacebandido: i couldnt agree more with freeze

kiwi_44155: Word of mouth/radio grabs won't be specifying fourth or 4th, so we need to be able to capture someone looking for restorethe4th even if we decide on restorethefourth

yusiye: agree on branding

SpecifyOther: I like the graphic designs I've seen for Restore the Fourth so far. I think when we have space to spell it full, it looks nice and professional.

Restore4: I think as a brand you need to choose one

BlackPhoenix: Yep

Entrarchy: sentient_galactic I love your logo design with the masterlock. Very nice work.

restorethefourthweb: Yes we should go with fourth

optimal: why not just restore4th ?

mrthomast: well then let's decide on one now

Communicuff: I really like your designs sentient_galactic, would ask that the "is" be emphasized in the second like it is in the first.

spacebandido: we really need to brand this thing PROFESSIONALLY

kslez: I think freeze is right. AND we need to settle on a hastag for tweets.

f1123581321: agreed with freeze

MarkSkull: I agree with kiwi_44155

restorethefourthweb: 4th for hashtag?

sentient_galactic: thank you. Â got it

SpecifyOther: What about a standard acronym? R4? RT4?

Kampfers: agreed kslez

webbster: i liked the master lock logo

Restore4: I agree, if we have the domain to "restorethe4th.com" i think we should use it

solxyz: i agree with freeze, for wierd computer situations variation is fine, but when it is written out in text, there should be a standard

Communicuff: and re: Official name, I believe we have decided on "Restore the 4th" to use wherever possible

Fourthe4th: In the business world, it is better to write out small numbers rather than use the numeric character.

BlackPhoenix: FOURTH!

Restore4: that seems the best

Expl0siv0: 4th is way better for social media purposes. its concise and easy to use

kiwi_90363: #Restorethe4th

shiftoner: Yeah I think all the artwork Ive seen is production ready lets roll

Fourthe4th: But either will work

kiwi_46389: I think the FOURTH stands out more, looks more professional than, and looks more powerful than 4TH

kiwi_44155: 4th invokes July 4th images

optimal: simpler the better for sure

Entrarchy: I don't see why both cannot be used. 4th for social media and "fourth" for branding.

restorethefourthweb: kiwi: agree

Restore4: another point I heard elsewhere, and don't laugh at it, is that many people may not know how to spell "fourth" at first

BlackPhoenix: Yes

andrewpage: I agree with Entrarchy

BadNickname: 4th is ideal for the official name ideal since Fourth won't always work with space constraints

Restore4: not everybody has a full educations

The_Mav: I think the sooner we start getting stuff out the better.

Kampfers: we should just have a vote >.>

Expl0siv0: is it really a concern though?

andrewpage: Forth, Fourth, Forthe

kiwi_46389: I AGREE WITH ENTRARCHY

shiftoner: agree w entrarchy

LWT: Voting is a bad idea

* Kampfers encourages democracy:

SpecifyOther: Restore4, not a bad point...

kiwi_46389: sorry, didnt mean to do all caps

yusiye: retoreIV

The_Mav: So any way to get our cause known is a plus

LWT: We should use straw polls

BlackPhoenix: FOURTH

Rabbit: What art are we going with??

mrthomast: also, restorethefourth.com is not under our control

sandwichcat: what the hell is wrong with voting?

LWT: But remain with consensus

mrthomast: but i have restorethe4th.com registered

LWT: In situations like this

cralledode: this is not going to be the best avenue for making this decision

Entrarchy: It will be impossible to stop both from being used, we need to embrace both and brand around both from the getgo.

Fourthe4th: All the art looks great

kiwi_46389: FOURTH is better than 4th

SpecifyOther: Is there a site we can use to rank submitted logos, text, etc.? Maybe one where we...upvote and downvote?

BlackPhoenix: Lets do both!

Fourthe4th: I agree with Fourth

LWT: It can be pretty divisive and cause a lot of hurt feelings

Kampfers: mrthomast	but i have restorethe4th.com registered <<< important

Entrarchy: It will be impossible to stop both from being used, we need to embrace both and brand around both from the getgo.

Restore4: I think either way we need to create a brand

kslez: But the fact that there is a Twitter limitation needs to weigh in. In any event, we should vote.

restorethefourthweb: I have restorethefourth.net

LWT: We need to synthesize a creative solution that balances perspectives

ZombieBrain: Is anyone else having internet issues? Just want to make sure no DDoS is fucking me

Expl0siv0: entrarchy has the best point here IMO

bsamson: if we have all the relevant domains redirecting to a single location, that should be sufficient, whichever name is decided uon

Restore4: like how "adidas" is always all lowercase

kiwi_44155: entrarchy is absolutely right, down to getting restorthe4ourth.com if we can afford it

kiwi_90363: I call question

SLUR: Use both

Restore4: that's how u recognize it

sentient_galactic: is anyone in contact with restorethefourth.com?

kiwi_46389: it stands out more and looks more powerful with FOURTH

sandwichcat: re: fourth vs 4th. i personally don't think it matters as long as usage is consistent within the design

f1123581321: is restorethefourth.org available?

restorethefourthweb: taken

banjax: http://99designs.com/ is a good place to get voting on designs

RT4: I don't see the problem with using both

greensquare: as soon as we settle on a design, I plan to make stickers and put them around my town. anyone else agree?

rt4patriot: I like restorethe4ourth

Expl0siv0: use fourth when you need to be professional

sandwichcat: so don't have fourth and 4th on the same flyer

Fourthe4th: Maybe we need to have varients of the misspellings of fourth registerd to mirror

Expl0siv0: use 4th for twitter and stuff

Expl0siv0: simple

ameerrante: Stickers!

Kampfers: in popular nomenclature it doesnt matter what WE write

kiwi_44155: greensquare no grafiti please

restorethefourthweb: I say use fourth when possible

noise13: im with greensquare

derp_infinite: 4th for linking, FOURTH for copy?

Kampfers: but in terms of branding and hashtags we need a united name

Entrarchy: I'm sure a logo can be used to brand around restorethe4ourth.com

restorethefourthweb: shorten to 4th if need be

BadNickname: 4th for social media - fourth for everything else

mrthomast: its important that we dont move on till this is determined...

reddetteuser: I was thinking it would be better to work on the logo after we know what we want to communicate

Restore4: The thing is that it will look professional no matter what, it is the movement's official name

Yelnoc: sorry to shut the convo off again, but we need to be moving on

Yelnoc: next of course is #r4info

Yelnoc: andthentheskyfell will be presenting for that

* banjax whoever was asking about voting on designs please message me:

andthentheskyfell: As you know, the webpage is up, and the infocorps has been diligently filling in content. This content currently exists in the format of an about us, and a FAQ. You saw the content earlier but here’s the link again. It’s colab edit atm so please don’t mess it up.

andthentheskyfell: http://collabedit.com/53aqk

andthentheskyfell: Hello, everyone. I’m representing #r4info, aka the infocorps. We’re the people in charge of writing content and eventually media/press

andthentheskyfell: whoops bad copy paste sorry

andthentheskyfell: We’re currently making copy (the words and material on a website) for the following topic:

andthentheskyfell: “What Can I Do?”- this will be where resources will be located. From here, we will have access to a directory of all the threads/pages of regional events, categorized by state and city. It will be similar to what is currently on the sidebar of the subreddit. There will also be links to the relevant social media pages, which represent the organizati

andthentheskyfell: on as a whole, congressional contact information and templates, and to resources that will educate newcomers on our protesting methods and unique mannerisms, and protesting in general.

andthentheskyfell: Obviously, if the need arises for more stuff, we’ll gladly accommodate.

andthentheskyfell: In regards to social media, we have set up an official twitter handle, but the person who made it is nowhere to be found. Â We have set up an official Twitter account, which you should all follow ASAP at http://twitter.com/Restore_the4th . This account will be renamed as soon as we find the owner of the other Twitter account (@Restorethe4th)

andthentheskyfell: We also have numerous regional Facebook pages and the nationwide main page. We can’t stress enough how important these are for awareness, Join. Follow. Share. Tell your friends, and make things happen. It’s all on you.

andthentheskyfell: Lastly, I want to thank everyone involved. This wouldn’t be possible without you guys. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or just want to help with r4info, send me a PM or join us in our chartroom after the meeting has ended.

andthentheskyfell: Thanks everybody, that’s it.

Yelnoc: great, thanks andthentheskyfell

Yelnoc: one thing

Yelnoc: If you are looking to get involved with a regional group and need help finding a relevant social media page, check the twitter account mentioned above

Yelnoc: I am following all the ones I can find

Yelnoc: also check the subreddit, which is being updated

BipolarBear0: crow1170 is a mod of the subreddit

BipolarBear0: Everyone say hi (silently)

Yelnoc: go ahead expl0siv0

Expl0siv0: just wanted to note that i have discussed compiling lists/resources as andthentheskyfell mentioned for the site earlier today. im sure we could use more help on that so please pm me if you want to help. we can also discuss this more in the channel after the meeting.

Expl0siv0: anyway thats it.

Expl0siv0: ty

Yelnoc: thank you

Yelnoc: go ahead noise13

noise13: Actually I think the context covered my questions and I have nothing to add at this time. Thanks for the floor though. I'm excited about this

Yelnoc: awesome

Yelnoc: go ahead buffalo

Buffalo: One of the biggest things I feel is important (to set us apart from the failures of Occupy) is a tutorial/fourm system that makes it easy for leaders of the respective cities to apply for permits. It's a nightmare just getting to the fourms for most of us, and figuring out what actually needs a permit. In my city, posters even need approval depending on size. I want to make sure we

Buffalo: stay within the law as much as humanly possible.

Buffalo: The more information available, the more likely leaders will step up

liqudExe_: stay within law.

Yelnoc: this is a very important point, thanks for bringing that up

Buffalo: That's all. Thank you.

Yelnoc: if anyone has legal trianing or otherwise feels they would be a good person to write such a tutorial,please let us know during the discussion

Yelnoc: go at it

a_redditeur: yay

cralledode: let's not forget that the most important thing we can do is outreach and organizing

Entrarchy: Is there a #r4legal team yet?

mrthomast: so we still havent determined if we're using 4th or fourth or if it even matters...?

RT4: We really need a tutorial

fibonacci: Buffalo raises an extremely important point: if we have any hope of changing the system, we have to work within it until we do

transformtheworld: we need personal stories. a place for people to submit them and show them maybe

restorethefourthweb: Has anyone tried contacting the eff or aclu to get legal people involved?

RT4: I've been looking for one

Entrarchy: There are a lot of /r/legal related subs and I'm sure you could find some lawyers willing to work with us.

cralledode: If any of you have connections with existing organizing frameworks, please reach out strongly to those connections and try to get them on board with us

cralledode: If any of you have connections with existing organizing frameworks, please reach out strongly to those connections and try to get them on board with us

cralledode: If any of you have connections with existing organizing frameworks, please reach out strongly to those connections and try to get them on board with us

sandwichcat: someone needs to take charge of marketing. 4th vs fourth is a marketing issue

cralledode: sorry for dupes

Restore4: yeah I'm on that

rt4patriot: I see no problem with nonviolent civil disobedience

Restore4: I'll talk about it when it comes up

Entrarchy: I have connections to Lawyers for Ron Paul.

Entrarchy: I imagine they'd volunteer.

webbster: are we gping to have current news and events on the site? people could pitch on on what they find that relates to us

sandwichcat: Entrarchy: call them

kiwi_46389: wow, Entrachy, we should contact them

Entrarchy: on it.

transformtheworld: i think the biggest issue with the people that aren't on board is that they don't understand why this would be a problem for them

Yelnoc: one thing

derp_infinite: @webbster - its on my list

Restore4: I will touch on 4th vs fourth and why was never resolved

AndroUser2: No civil disobedience

Yelnoc: We will be contacting EFF at some point

LWT: What?

RT4inVA: Why are we waiting to contact EFF?

webbster: thankyou

LWT: CivDis is a totally valid tactic

Yelnoc: I imagine they will be able to advise on that

restorethefourthweb: Entarchy: defiantly contact them

RT4inVA: Reddit has scratched their back for a long, long time

Entrarchy: There is a reason we are waiting to contact them.

Yelnoc: why? Because we're up to our eyes in TODOs

cralledode: IMPORTANT LEGAL NOTICE: If you cannot get permits to organize, that DOES NOT mean you cannot organize

mrthomast: I really think our organizational framework is lacking.... part of why occupy collapsed

kslez: I think we need to stay in the framework of the law or risk being tied to Occupy.

rt4patriot: I mean if we do it be smart and know what we're doing

Communicuff: sandwichcat I believe 4th was approved by most

Entrarchy: It's important that the movement is solidified before we seek sponsors/partnerships.

fibonacci: I agree that civil disobedience is a valid tactic but there are times and ways it is effective and times and places it is not

Buffalo: I wonder the logistics of getting the red cross or salvation army in on this. They might be happy dealing with the logistics for guaranteed donations.

cralledode: the 1st amendment protects your right to organize with or without a permit in response to rapidly occurring events

sandwichcat: Communicuff: cool

kslez: On 4th v fourth, I'm throwing my hat in for 4th but I think we need a vote.

rt4patriot: I'm just concerned that people are getting this metaphorical "hard-on" for following the law as much as possible

LWT: How can you possibly say when it is useful before the situation has even come about?

mrthomast: agree with cralledode

noise13: me too

restorethefourthweb: I think fourth for print, 4th for social media

LWT: You're hamstringing yourself by limiting your tactical options

rt4patriot: Like we're servile and neutered, trembling in fear.

solxyz: what rt4 said

SpecifyOther: I think we should contact EFF *because* we could use professional organizational help. As long as we're not co-opted by whatever direction *they* want to take.

Entrarchy: On 4th vs fourth: It will be impossible to stop both from being used by non-leadership members. Count on twitter, tumblr, and facebook accounts using both.

noise13: yes

restorethefourthweb: it is /r/restorethefourth after all

kiwi_46389: FOURTH/4th doesnt matter except for in posters/flyers. FOURTH for flyers. everything else doesnt matter

SpecifyOther: We should contact the ACLU and EPIC too.

noise13: yes

Restore4: it does matter

gabe_restorephilly: there's a difference between being servile and being civil

rt4patriot: I'm VERY against violence, but if you can't get a permit, by all means don't let that stop you from exercising your FIRST amendment rights.

cralledode: Guys, currently /r/restorethefourth has 4 major cities listed on the sidebar: Boston, Atlanta, San Francisco, and Portland

Buffalo: following the law is all we should be doing. My favorite thing ever is pot and I won't be smoking for the whole protest. It's important.

cralledode: if anyone is in those cities, please subscribe

Kampfers: SpecifyOther: i agree although I feel like EFF is one of the organizations that would be less likely to co-opt us a la moveon

Yelnoc: now onto marketing

sandwichcat: is there nothing happening in chicago?

sandwichcat: Yelnoc: sorry

Yelnoc: the #r4marketing channel is the most recent edition

Yelnoc: I will note that some of it's stuff overlaps with the info team. There may be a reorganization of channels in the near future

Yelnoc: but for now, BadNickname will be presenting for marketing

BadNickname: If we have the funds for TV advertising we should focus on networks with high 18-32 demographics (such as MTV) as opposed to news outlets (who have a majority demographic beyond our target audience).

BadNickname: Keys to our marketing position:

BadNickname: Not being anti-american in any way (so as not to alienate anyone with national pride or patriotism - middle of the country, social conservatives, older demographics, etc.)

BadNickname: Spotlight the fact that PRISM and Boundless Informant are just the most recent products of a broken system.

BadNickname: Appealing to all US citizens beyond partisan/party lines.

BadNickname: Dismantling the idea that privacy and security are mutually exclusive and emphasizing their interdependence.

BadNickname: Brand:

BadNickname: Primary Goal - Restore the American right to the 4th amendment

BadNickname: Primary slogan - Restore the 4th

BadNickname: Tagline/Secondary Slogan - Privacy is Security

BadNickname: Future Work: We have worked out most of the basics, but we need to get more specific about how we will address marketing and demographics. If there are any professionals in the marketing sector or anyone wit relevant experience feel free to head over to #r4marketing and lend us your insights.

BadNickname: Thank you and remember this is just the beginning.

Yelnoc: let's all take a sec to read that, lol

Yelnoc: ok, awesome

Yelnoc: go ahead restore4

Restore4: Yo guys, I was the one pushing for this and just want to outline what my original goals were

Restore4: I wanted to establish there

Restore4: these*

Restore4: Situational analysis including a competitive analysis, history of movement, target audience, geographic locations, media mix, and SWOT analysis.

Restore4: Creative strategy include communication objectives, reach and frequency goals, scheduling and timing, and budget

Restore4: A media integration synergy plans (basically specific promotions) Â ex) July 4th protest

Restore4: You can read above what we have done but this was not meant to overlap at all with actual execution of communication

Restore4: more to establish an identity

Restore4: in my opinion

Restore4: The purpose of the marketing now is to get people to the protests.  We should being allocating our resources to get people to show up to the protest and not waste them on demographics that are less likely to show up.  Those demographics that won’t show up will hear about it on the news when it is successful.  For every amount of effort it would tak

Restore4: e us to recruit 20 older people for the cause and the protest, we could easily get 50 younger people who would have a bigger impact in the end.

Restore4: If the protests are successful, news channels like fox and cnn with a demographic over 60

Restore4: will get them on board

Restore4: I think the flaw with marketing right now is that not enough people on there really have a grasp of what we wanted to accomplish

Restore4: if you have any questions PM me

Restore4: Also i think we NEED to decide on 4th vs fourth

Restore4: it's a brand

Restore4: we need to pick one or the other or we will be diluting the brand

Yelnoc: on that topic

Restore4: repitition = liking

Restore4: annnnnd i'm spent thanks

Yelnoc: The best idea I have heard is fourth for formal use and 4th for social media and situations with character restrictions

Yelnoc: you guys can discuss that once the floor opens, thanks restore4

Yelnoc: our last marketing speaker is Entrarchy, entrarchy come on

Entrarchy: I'm a Huffington Post blogger and I'm interested in getting something up on that site asap regarding the movement. I've worked previously with Anonymous to publish copy (same information that would go on the website) as a press release for distribution as a PDF on Twitter. We've seen how such PDFs can go viral and serve to cement a cause. This is w

Entrarchy: here Occupy went wrong. Unlike them, we have a very specialized purpose and a very clear motive.

Entrarchy: Just one sec while I grab the link.

Entrarchy: I'd like to work with teh #r4info team and ALL of you to collaboratively write the final manifesto/call to arms using collabedit HERE:Â http://collabedit.com/ctxa2

Entrarchy: If we can set a time for the final draft to be finished and agreed on, I'll move forward to format it as a desktop publication for distribution.

Entrarchy: Once this is finished I can have a piece put on HuffPost and have it sent to other journalists.

Yelnoc: is that all?

Entrarchy: Once the manifesto is published it's really up to marketing to push it, which should be easy and I'm happy to help with that as well.

Entrarchy: Yep!

Yelnoc: awesome, thanks!

Entrarchy: The key takeaway is that we need to finish writing the copy ASAP.

Yelnoc: definitely agree

Yelnoc: Unfortunately I've had issues accessing the collabedit, if anyone else is having issues definitely let us know

Yelnoc: now for the free-for all

Entrarchy: If I can, I'll package whatever we come up with on that document tonight and "ship" it.

vArouet-NYC: Hey guys, I just wanted to ask a question. How did the secondary slogan come about?  I feel like it's too disconnected, too objective; I don't know if it's enough to get people's gears going.  Why not something that has significance to every American, like a line out of the Constitution, or the final line of the pledge we were practically required

gabe_restorephilly: I feel like some of these collaborative efforts could be better organized if we had regional leaders

vArouet-NYC: to say for thirteen years of our youth: "with liberty and justice for all"?

Entrarchy: So everyone please participate on our collabedit:Â http://collabedit.com/ctxa2

fibonacci: Don't underestimate the power of word-of-mouth. Grabbing older demographics can be easier than you might think, once their kids and grandkids start posting to facebook

Restore4: I just want to reiterate that using a mix of fourth and 4th makes ZERO sense and dilutes the brand. Â We won't be the only people posting on social media so there is no controlling what the public will use. Â the hashtag numbers will be cut in half

BlackPhoenix: Ok sounds good

freeze4096: I really like Restore4's comment that "we should be allocating our resources to get people to show up to the protest". While having the website with a bunch of examples of the invasions of privacy that have been in the media etc., *primary* goal should be not to overwhelm people with crazy amounts of information. Stick to trying to get people to attend a protest, with minimal requirements of "knowing everything"; secondary goal to provide resources to people who actually want to learn as much as possible.

MouthingOff: Can we trust MSM to portray our view positively? They are the ones who marginalized Occupy and they are already starting to speak negatively about Snowden and the internet generation in general

restorethefourthweb: As for fourth vs 4th I strongly thing fourth for most things and 4th where space is an issue

cralledode: We need to be as wary as possible about both making this movement too insular, and making it too broad. We can't be painted as just another liberal whine-fest, but we also can't let ourselves get diluted with different messages

freeze4096: vArouet-NYC: agreed. "Privacy in Security" never hit the spot for me.

Fourthe4th: Fourth for formal 4th for social, why not have both? Â They mean the same thing

MarkSkull: ^ AGREED!

kiwi_13885: Could either meaning be hijacked to mean something else?

dustinMAB5150: I loved the lock!

dustinMAB5150: Omfg!

Restore4: they mean the same thing but they are not

Restore4: think about it

Flyng_Kittens: I LOVE ALL OF YOU

Jeremyryan: Yeah we should assume the MSM will try to marginalize the movement. They've already begun their character assassination of Snowden

Restore4: if half the people on twitter hashtag one and half the other it dilutes the brand

SpecifyOther: Can we use Restore the Fourth in full, then Restore4 as the official shorthand?

SpecifyOther: Not to steal a certain someone's nick. :P

gabe_restorephilly: as long as we carry the restore the fourth message (and whatever we finalize it as), I don't see any reason to not include other potentially like minded organizations as well, occupy included

Fourthe4th: True Restore4

shiftoner: I don't think you can trust media to portray you anything other than the worst they can get away with

noise13: if 4th is for twitter then the hashtag numbers will be fine

Restore4: when you are talking about a brand, you keep it consistent

Jeremyryan: Restore4 is right - need to have a brand that is entirely consistent

MarkSkull: The only thing that dilutes the brand is staying off-message.

Restore4: not true

MouthingOff: So we should be focusing on a youtube/live stream campaign

Fourthe4th: So put it up as a vote on the website

MouthingOff: not MSM

SirStephen: I second SpecifyOther

AndrewP: Maybe we could have Restore the Fourth as our official name, then hashtags like #rt4?

fibonacci: @SpecifyOther agreed

MouthingOff: make it trend on Youtube

Fourthe4th: one vote per IP

MarkSkull: People are smart enough to know Fourth and 4th is the same.

MouthingOff: live at the protests

Restore4: listen repetition leads to liking, the more someone sees something the more they will like it

Restore4: if we split it up they will be seeing it half as often

Communicuff: 4th

Communicuff: 4th

cralledode: guys what kind of protests are we organizing? A march? A rally?

Jezz: 4th

rt4patriot: 4th

kiwi_79009: I think #rt4 doesn't seem to be descriptive enough

MouthingOff: I have an idea for protests

fibonacci: restorethefourth for formal, and #restore4 for social. they're different enough to not confuse them

Fourthe4th: A revolution

Restore4: this is not just us referring to a date or a number, it's a brand, a proper noun at this point

Jeremyryan: yeah tgreat idea re: live stream at protests; we need a few video savvy folks to do the recording - does anyone know how to set up a live stream?

sandwichcat: fourth + 4th fuck it

AndrewP: #restore4 sounds good

MarkSkull: Fourth for Print, 4th for Social Media.

RT4: If we put the hashtag onto our marketing graphics it'll help with dilution no matter what we use

transformtheworld: just use restorethe4th because of the space requirement. Â you a) keep the brand, b) 4th resonates better for july 4th. c) space requirements. the drawback is that it's not 'powerful' enough. but i think that's the best decision to stay consisent

kiwi_79009: I like #restore4

noise13: 4th

kiwi_13885: Good point, RT4

AndrewP: It rhymes too, so it will roll off the tongue in speech

SpecifyOther: transformtheworld: I do agree, 4th -> July 4th is linked pretty well in my mind.

AndrewP: Shut the fuck up please

Fourthe4th: Lets keep it civil here please

AndrewP: Someone kick him

cralledode: what the fuck flying kittens

freeze4096: Damn did I bring up the fourth vs 4th discussion? We're like 4 sections passed that and its still the talk of the channel :S

CaptainCool: also like the demands in the side bar are we actually attempting them? They seem a bit extreme

kiwi_79009: So are we agreeing upon #restorethe4th ?

Yelnoc: what the fuck

noise13: yes

Yelnoc: extra minute for this, lol

transformtheworld: yes

restorethefourthweb: for the hashtag

Fourthe4th: Yea I like 4th for social

kiwi_46389: STOP FUCKIN TROUTSLAPPIN

SpecifyOther: CaptainCool: I think the demands need rephrasing but the meaning is basically good

SirStephen: It's pretty long for a hashtag, it will limit the amount of other characters used.

transformtheworld: it's fine bc we should stay consistent

CaptainCool: Like there nice and all but replacing the government seems a bit hard

sentient_galactic: print?

restorethefourthweb: i don't think we should move exclusively to the 4th because the reddit is /r/restorethefourth

RT4: I agree with Captain

AndrewP: For a hashtag I really really like #restore4

SpecifyOther: Also, let's just make a topic on Reddit, comments have possibilities of Fourth vs. 4th, and people can vote as they please. Or use a poll site or SOMETHING, but not "yea/nay" votes in IRC.

cralledode: guys if anyone is in a city BESIDES Boston, Portland, Atlanta, and SF, please make a subreddit for local organizing

fibonacci: I still like Restore the Fourth in print and #restore4

Jeremyryan: god we should seriously try to get all of these restore the 4th pages on FB to get consistent with their banners/icons

AndrewP: Yes

AndrewP: Restore the Fourth in print and #restore4

P3n12_awesome: hello guys

thiss: hi

The_Mav: I made a subredit for Chicago

freeze4096: Restore the Fourth in print and #restore4th

Yelnoc: now we're going to move onto specific topics

Yelnoc: I'll say the topic, then open the channel up for 5 minutes

freeze4096: without the the th, you're saying "restore 4" which is not the name. :)

Yelnoc: first topic: connecting with a local organization

Yelnoc: go

Yelnoc: go

kiwi_13885: Local ACLU?

RT4: What do you mean "a local organization"?

The_Mav: r/r4Chicago for chicago

gabe_restorephilly: one of our guys has tried to connect with occupy philly, among others

BlackPhoenix: Interviews with local papaers

Fourthe4th: Ive tried my local activist group they are too busy with themselves unfortunately

kiwi_79009: I have started contacting the local libertarian party headquarters

RT4: okay

SirStephen: Do we want to associate ourselves with Occupy?

SpecifyOther: Local ACLUs would be a good start.

kslez: From the ATL side, we need to get the ball rolling. I'm not sure who has already done what, but if you are in ATL please PM me.

transformtheworld: i dont think we need other orgs to associate with. Â we should do it grassroots

noise13: I think hooking up with local orgs will be easier after we pull off the protest on the 4th. Or do we need them in order to protest?

The_Mav: I dont think thats a good call, to associate with occupy

Communicuff: SirStephen no

gabe_restorephilly: it doesn't matter who we associate with as long as it's our message

Fourthe4th: The more help the better

winterthrowaway: my city specific subreddit already made up a "you guys interested" topic, but there's not a lot of response

kiwi_13885: But you could use mail lists from organizations...

cralledode: we don't need to associate with occupy, but it would help to tap into existing organizing frameworks

kiwi_79009: Grassroots is good but if we get more local orgz involved it will increase visibility

RT4: Noise: I think we need them in order to protest

solxyz: occupiers are invited, but not *as* occupiers, they should come to join rt4

bsamson: yes, avoid association with occupy

kiwi_46389: NO ASSOCIATING WITH OCCUPY WHATSOEVER, THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE CANT ALLY WITH THEM

SpecifyOther: I think we could use people's advice but not publicly take "sponsors" and add them to our branding, etc.

SpecifyOther: Let them publicize us, not the other way around.

rt4patriot: We should associate with anyone who will ally with us

cralledode: avoid association with ANYONE

kiwi_79009: Occupy's brand is tarnished

AndrewP: I'll contact the ACLU Northern California

cralledode: but don't be afraid to use existing resources

transformtheworld: agreed, avoid public association

gabe_restorephilly: our goal isn't to be associated with them as it is to get support from the members

Yelnoc: what's the occupy phobia?

kiwi_79009: We are separate from them. We must seem more professional

SirStephen: It absolutely does matter who we associate with, would you want to get press with the Westboro Baptist Church or the neo-nazis, I think not.

AndrewP: Occupy was a failure

RT4inVA: Associate with professional organizations, not former protests

Yelnoc: yeah we are separate

cralledode: AndrewP: can you PM me on reddit about NorCal ACLU?

fibonacci: We need to be very careful about associations because we will be judged by the company we keep

AndrewP: We don't want to fail before we've begun

RT4inVA: Too easy to attack

shiftoner: yeah I think we should use every possible resource and bring every possible person in to the fold

rt4patriot: Jesus, this grassroots political movement is turning into a central committee

freeze4096: Hey as long as people show up with signs about privacy and not the 99%, it's all good.

kiwi_13885: Occupy became so partisan. I think it'd be dangerous to align too closely.

snoo_9748: Yelnoc, Occupy failed, and we don't want to repeat those mistakes.

Yelnoc: but we can contact occupy and tea party organizations and any other grassroots orgs to look for support

Yelnoc: nothing wrong with reaching out

cralledode: agreed with Yelnoc

kiwi_79009: Let's try to keep partisanship as far away from this as possible

rt4patriot: And Occupy didn't fail

The_Mav: We should avoid political groups

snoo_9748: ^

cralledode: they can help us put people on the street

shiftoner: totally agree don't forget it will be described as partisan if at all possible you need to preclude that a bit I think

kiwi_79009: The less political ties the more united we can be

rt4patriot: Let's just avoid everyone then we won't get anyone

BlackPhoenix: Occupy didnt fail because were still talkin

rt4patriot: We should approach EVERYONE rather than NO ONE

bsamson: avoid political groups because this is not a politically divided cause. this appeals to everyone.  reach out, but don't go for affiliation

shiftoner: BlackPheonix: My feelings too

snoo_9748: This is not about red or blue politics. Occupy was too political. If Occupiers can come and leave their politics at the door, I'm all for that.

TheGrandpas: Hey guys

MouthingOff: the banner should be values like integrity and respect

gabe_restorephilly: It's our message, so who cares whether occupy, or tea party or whomever decides to support it

MouthingOff: things like that

fibonacci: agreed, snoo

MouthingOff: no parties

Jezz: I agree with keeping associations to a minimum

rt4patriot: Of course Occupy was political… that was kind of the point...

gabe_restorephilly: the point is that it's our message

BlackPhoenix: Yep

TheGrandpas: Anyone from Tampa Fl?

Buffalo: Keep political sides completely out of this.

JordanL: I was PR Director for Occupy Portland, it was never about politics for me, and this isnt about politics at all

thiss: so are we going to do protests?

TheGrandpas: or southern florida..

shiftoner: I have noticed a new tone here with this issue. Everyone really gets this.  It's creepy and there is no amount of lipstick you can put on it.  This is a huge opportunity

kiwi_13885: We're working on a gathering in Cleveland.

winterthrowaway: people are already trying to point the finger to the other party. divide and conquer is what's happening there.

thiss: we should use guy Fawkes masks so we can stay anonymous

MouthingOff: I thought a great form of protest would be if we all showed up outside our government buildings with every camera we had and just pointed them at the buildings without saying a word. I think that might send a pretty powerful message.

kiwi_79009: NO

Miranda: Yes

kiwi_79009: No guy fawks

TheGrandpas: yeah no masks

snoo_9748: thiss, get out. No. Fuck no.

thiss: yes

BlackPhoenix: No tthis

Buffalo: No masks

kiwi_66651: no masks

kiwi_13885: Agreed

The_Mav: Yes. no masks

solxyz: no guy fawkes

snoo_9748: No. Fucking Masks.

fibonacci: Kiwi I'm in Cleveland for another month I can potentially help out a bit

Miranda: they're symbolic in NYC

RestoreLA: no guy fawks

BlackPhoenix: No mask

Fourthe4th: NO MASKS

Buffalo: No Guy Fawkes masks.

kiwi_79009: We need to put our face on this message

fibonacci: No masks

transformtheworld: NO MASKS. no association with anon

rt4patriot: This group is trying WAY too hard to have an iron fist down on everything, and not forge alliances

kiwi_46389: no masks

Jezz: no masks

TheGrandpas: its also illegal to gather in groups with masks..a sure way to have cops bother you

thiss: I think the masks will be helpful

Miranda: speaking of which, who's organizing this in NYC?

BlackPhoenix: We want to look good

Buffalo: That's not our symbol

Fourthe4th: no

freeze4096: VOTE PASSED - NO MASKS. got it. lol

kiwi_13885: Cool! Check out the r/Cleveland subreddit

Expl0siv0: if we want to be discredited we should use masks

AndrewP: Why would the masks be helpful

TheGrandpas: haha!

solxyz: we're common americans, not a wierd protestor sub-culture

Expl0siv0: we wont be taken seriously if we use them

snoo_9748: The masks will DESTROY any credibility we have.

cralledode: we are not anonymous, isn't that the point of all this?

thiss: yes masks

BipolarBear0: No masks is a good idea

Yelnoc: on the subject of masks, and also on that of dresscode which there is a post in the sub about, while we can say what we as a group desire, trying mandate things like that for a national organization is foolhardy

Yelnoc: in y opinion

BipolarBear0: What we need to separate ourselves from: Occupy Wall Street, Anonymous, conspiracy theorists

Yelnoc: my*

Yelnoc: now, the next topic I think needs discussing is finance and fundraising

Yelnoc: somebody already set up an indiegogo account (if you are in here please PM right now).

Entrarchy: That should be left up mainly to #r4marketing.

Yelnoc: perhaps, but the people deserve a voice on money, for sure

fibonacci: Fundraising is difficult for credibility reasons; there needs to be some third-party authentication going on. But we're in a unique situation where we can't trust a lot of third party identifiers

Restore4: Yelnoc, what do you think of establishing an executive committee, of a few people from each division?

RT4: Have we decided that the only thing we need to fund is a site? What would we do with the extra money? Who would be in charge? How would we determine that?

mrthomast: but sometime between when I launched my campaign and now, someone else setup a seperate campaign with the same goal and it became far more successful

Fourthe4th: Im only going to be donating to places listed on the website

fibonacci: The second you talk about indiegogo, people ask "how do I know what the money is being used for"

Restore4: Their could be a VP of finance.

Yelnoc: restore4, PM me so this can stay on topic

jonny2112: RT4: media campaigns and news paper ads

mrthomast: So im just going to transfer any donations I have so far and then not advertise my campaign

rt4patriot: This movement is becoming ridiculous, trying to regulate everything the movement itself does - with organizing with occupy, dress codes… seriously.

webbster: have marketing give options amd we can vote on what our priorities are

restorethefourthfweb: what is the topic? sorry internet is having issues

BipolarBear0: Are we focusing on the NSA thing, or the 4th amendment in general?

BlackPhoenix: 3 from each division?

The_Mav: There needs to be a way for people to easily donate money for the cause somehow

mrthomast: I agree that there needs to be an executive committee that is run by democracy

rt4patriot: It's doing the OPPOSITE of the problem of occupy's LACK of organization.

kiwi_46389: bitcoins bitcoins bitcoins

Buffalo: dress codes are just not be disgusting. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem period.

BipolarBear0: No bitcoins

noise13: Is say fundraising should be done at a city level

kiwi_46389: dress code is

kiwi_46389: we should all hold AMERICAN FLAGS to show our PATRIOTISM and LOVE OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT and CONSTITUTION, FREEDOM, AND LIBERTY, instead of wearing masks

BlackPhoenix: No bitcoins!

restorethefourthfweb: bitcoins are too tech

RT4: There needs to be regulation and transparency as to where the money is going

cralledode: we need to be able to accept bitcoin

yusiye: bit coin can be an alternative

cralledode: people who are afraid of surveillance will use bit coin

akardios: can't we just wear american flags as masks?

restorethefourthfweb: yes but not the main source

yusiye: not the primary donation source

cralledode: definitely not

noise13: let the heads there figure out who is in charge and what to do to help the LOCAL cause wich will help the national cause

The_Mav: I agree, financess should be done by city

fibonacci: We won't get money outside of early-adopters unless we have some kind of transparent use or outside authentication

kiwi_79009: Fundraising should definitely be done on a city to city basis. Mush easier to allocate funding that way

The_Mav: or region

BornForthis: No masks!

shiftoner: see no reason not to accept bc but can't be only way

BipolarBear0: Bitcoins are too unstable

kiwi_46389: we should all hold AMERICAN FLAGS to show our PATRIOTISM and LOVE OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT and CONSTITUTION, FREEDOM, AND LIBERTY, instead of wearing masks

Buffalo: florida can do bitcoins. There are lots of physical stores that accept them already.

yusiye: i don't agree local finance

CaptainCool: are other nations flags banned?

yusiye: it will get people confused

snoo_9748: Guys, one good reason why we don't want masks: we're protesting the NSA treating us all as criminals. We need to show them we aren't afraid of them knowing who we are. I for one am tired of fearing my government.

BipolarBear0: Any nations flags, I think

BornForthis: Really buffalo? What part of florida?

BipolarBear0: Doesn't matter

rt4patriot: Seriously, I'm gonna drop my town's group, you guys can have your OCD control freak thing if you want

transformtheworld: i dont get why we need lots of money. you can get so much done on the ground without dealing with money. the only thing is maybe the site

BipolarBear0: Shouldn't be a huge issue.

freeze4096: It would seem best if we financially support useful global/national efforts only. The website, online advertising for the website, etc. Everything having to do with a specific city is out of scope of this organizing committee, and is to be handled by the subreddit team for that city.

cralledode: we should stick to US flags where possible

cralledode: has more impact

MouthingOff: all nations

transformtheworld: dont people make their own signs

Fourthe4th: It would be better to have one flag

restorethefourthfweb: so donations for website and then do it by city?

webbster: american flag masks would be badass

mrthomast: I think an executive committee needs to be established ASAP

rt4patriot: I'll just vote and leave it at that

kiwi_46389: no CaptainCool they're not banned but this is about the U.S. FOUTH AMENDMENT

freeze4096: We're never going to decently coordinate a dozen cities' financial goals for pushing out the news.

TheGrandpas: yeah what exactly do we need money for?

shiftoner: I would like to hear anyone with thoughts on the local vs national fundraising issue. I have no real input but seems an important issue

kiwi_79009: Especially since this will be happening on the 4th of July we should stick to American flags

transformtheworld: we dont have to fundraise

AndrewP: yes we do

transformtheworld: who fundraises for a protest?

AndrewP: we have $1k a month in fees

AndrewP: of course we do

fibonacci: betsy ross flags

shiftoner: yeah outside of site thats what I was thinking

kiwi_79009: Play up the patriotism as much as possible and the media will eat that up

vArouet-NYC: Permits cost money.

RT4: I don't think we need to fundraise beyond the website

vArouet-NYC: sometimes

transformtheworld: $1k we can get from just ourselves

restorethefourthfweb: It's a movement, not just a protest

Fourthe4th: a revolution

MouthingOff: ^ agreed

AndrewP: Go ahead, pay for it then

kiwi_46389: HOLDING AMERICAN FLAGS IS NOW THE OFFICIAL DRESS CODE AS OPPOSED TO MASKS

solxyz: keep the money as local as possible

kslez: My feeling on donations: should not go to local chapters. Let the locals handle that. For now national needs funding.

rt4patriot: It's becoming an iron fist, democratic centralism movement

TheGrandpas: permits, what else? I'm just curious what are the plans that money will be needeD? Sounds interesting.

snoo_9748: Seriously. This is a protest about restoring the American Constitution, beginning on the 4th of July. If you have a flag, make it an American flag.

BornForthis: Yea. We need to make it known that the reason we are out is to show our LOVE for america!.

MouthingOff: we ned to be taking charge on a regular basis

rt4patriot: it's rediculous

kslez: And once again, if you are in ATL, PM me.

MarkSkull: Wait, there's a dress code?

banjax: The Revolution Will Have A Good Credit Rating

thiss: we also need to watch out for government shills infiltrating our movement

MouthingOff: not just reacting to shitty policy

TheGrandpas: What would we be doing with that money? Creating a homebase? what?

cralledode: alright everyone, gotta take off, but anyone in here from NorCal please subscribe to /r/restorethefourthSF

CaptainCool: I'm not an native american and like would it be ok to bring my native countrys flag to like show support?

rt4patriot: it's trying so hard not to be occupy it's being just as shitty in the other direction

transformtheworld: how much are permits?

thiss: so keep a look out for any suspicious behavior among the groip

thiss: group

freeze4096: MarkSkull: no dress code, what people are really trying to say is we don't want to look like an unruly group of thugs.

JordanL: permits are usually tens of thousands

Miranda: why not do the "dont tread on me" snake?

gabe_restorephilly: permits probably vary based on the city

restorethefourthfweb: captaincool: I would suggest against it

MarkSkull: Ah.

restorethefourthfweb: this is about america

BipolarBear0: Shut up Miranda

Jeremyryan: no we need to really disassociate with that Don't Tread on Me snake

BipolarBear0: lol

noise13: okay its settled. regions/cities if you WANT to fundraise for your local cause then do so

RT4: rt4patriot, I get what you're saying, but there are legitimate concerns over funding. The dress code is silly though.

shiftoner: There is a brand of american that will be somewhat offended by the flying of foreign flags on that one day

Jeremyryan: it's got really strong associations with the Tea Party and will turn off everybody on the left

MouthingOff: bring your native countries flag if you want

BipolarBear0: Oh yeah

kiwi_46389: @MarkSkull, only dress code is no masks and dont be obscene. we dont want to tarnish out reputation, but it would be good to hold AMERICAN FLAGS to show our PATRIOTISM and LOVE OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT and CONSTITUTION, FREEDOM, AND LIBERTY, instead of wearing masks

BipolarBear0: Absolutely NO inciting to violence.

MarkSkull: *Up twinkles*

MouthingOff: listen there will be a bunch of american flags

BipolarBear0: If you're inciting to violence you will be kickbanned

Fourthe4th: Let the police be the violent ones it will play in our favor

MouthingOff: but other nations are being spied on by the US too

shiftoner: You can fly an american flag over any other countries flag without offense I would note

noise13: yup ^

rt4patriot: People will still wear masks

transformtheworld: someone needs to outline the finances needed. if you try to say you are fundraising for $1k it will be a joke

Buffalo: don't annoy the police

rt4patriot: how do you enforce that

thiss: I agree Miranda

fibonacci: Betsy ross flag

rt4patriot: I wont

Buffalo: The police should be on our side

Yelnoc: next topic: national coordination

Yelnoc: I've recieved some PMs with concerns on this issue
[banjax]
there are opers in here. klines can be issues

Yelnoc: At the moment, the core of the national leadership is organized around the subreddit and this IRC channel, obviously

Yelnoc: but some discussion about how we could or should organize moving forward on the national level would be useful

BipolarBear0: Oh hey, banjax is back

Yelnoc: five minutes, take it away

kslez: We need an FAQ on the sub.

kslez: Bad.

kiwi_46389: BETSY ROSS flag is to Tea Party in my opinion (although any support from the Tea PArty would be great) I think we should stick to AMERICAN FLAGS

banjax: I'm never really gone.

restorethefourthfweb: I think some sort of committee built up of the local leaders

BipolarBear0: I'm in 36 channels right now

kslez: I can help with this, but I think the template linked earlier for the website is a great starting point.

BipolarBear0: It's ridiculous

vArouet-NYC: Once local groups have their organizational meetings and decide whether or not to have a leadership team there, then a national level executive branch can be made out of that.

Restore4: here was my suggestion here was my suggestion here was my suggestion here was my suggestion here was my suggestion

BlackPhoenix: Have a list of all the subreddits for the /r/r4CityName movement

kiwi_90363: Facebook events led by a stable leader

BornForthis: Yes STICK to american flags.

kiwi_90363: Reddit is not popular enough

TheGrandpas: hahahaha

Restore4: think right now the natural step is to create an executive committee. Â Maybe a president, just for organizational sense. Â then under him, VPs of info, VPs of Dev, VPs of design, VPs of marketing and VPs of finance

RT4: I think we need to present a unified front, but for the most part I think it's a good idea to leave the individual regions to it. I think a tutorial and a set of very loose guidelines would be fine.

solxyz: the sub needs clear markers indicating what is currently needed and what people can do to get involved

JordanL: no, national organization cannot be form local up

JordanL: it must be in place soon

noise13: I say we start a 501c3 that fights for the basic civil rights. the 4th amendy will be our corner stone

JordanL: before the 4th

snoo_9748: I think we need to discuss whether or not we're going to have a central location for protests, in addition to smaller protests around the country.

JordanL: this was the greatest weakness of occupy

Fourthe4th: We all need to leave here with a goal in mind on something we can accomplish

thiss: we need something to symbolism the number 4

kiwi_90363: Don't kid yourself if you think reddit is popular enough to incite national protests

JordanL: you want all the protests across the country to have a similar message

SirStephen: @noise13 Brilliant

JordanL: to look coordinated

transformtheworld: u cant get a 501c3 in less than a month

kiwi_90363: You need popular media, facebook and twitter

solxyz: no 501c3, we dont know where this is going after this

reddetteuser: Did someone say Reddit isn't popular enough?

Restore4: did anybody see my suggestion?

rt4patriot: I'm really curious how people intend on going around enforcing all the rules they want to create

thiss: I say a cross with bent arms going in one direction

FluffyGuffy: So are we going to have a protest in DC?

noise13: that's longterm

JordanL: you want it to come back to a national identity that is perceived as powerful

solxyz: too formal and we will squelch enthusiasm

thiss: on a red background to be patriotic

vArouet-NYC: Local groups are meeting this week for organizational purposes (I hope--at least, NYC is). We should have some form of idea what we're doing by Thursday.

Restore4: I think it's something we need to look at ASAP before this falls apart

fibonacci: The Betsy Ross flag *is* an american flag. Using the current one will be drowned out on the 4th of july as a symbol.  Using something else has the possibility of getting people talking

rt4patriot: And there's no problem with bottom up as long as there's an actual structure in place

kiwi_46389: Our Logo should be a big "4" imposed on top an American Flag

snoo_9748: rt4patriot, no one is talking about enforcing any rules. These are suggestions for how we avoid coming across as thugs and hippies to the public.

BlackPhoenix: Thiss: are yku a shill wanting is to get hurt or dumbed down?

BornForthis: Sorry Restore4 what was your suggestion?

Restore4: think right now the natural step is to create an executive committee. Â Maybe a president, just for organizational sense. Â then under him, VPs of info, VPs of Dev, VPs of design, VPs of marketing and VPs of finance

RT4: I'm with Jordan I think. We need an identity and something to unify under.

DavidARoop: I agree completely with fibonacci about the flag

restorethefourthfweb: Restore4 agreed

Kampfers: agreed with Restore4

Restore4: I think it would establish credibility

restorethefourthfweb: we basically already have those in place

BlackPhoenix: I agree with restore 4

restorethefourthfweb: minus pres

The_Mav: I agree. lets figure something out

kslez: Restore4, I agree.

val: that sounds good

SpecifyOther: Can we all agree on a few tenets, and holding July 4th rallies, and people who want to create local/regional/national organizations can do so?

Restore4: it would help fundraising efforts as well

kiwi_79009: Restore4 it is then

Expl0siv0: agreed

Kampfers: we need national leadership to establish credebility, pr purposes, etc

noise13: let the 4 people who run the departments decide the rules for the departments. We'll follow them whatever they decide unless its absolutely ridiculous and needs further debate

SpecifyOther: Someone will feel left out of ANY organization, so we should avoid the One True Organization.

thiss: I'm no shill!

kslez: We should not start local and go up, we need national and then the locals can coordinate.

webbster: I agree with restore4

JordanL: yes

DavidARoop: I would suggest having a board- maybe like 3 people- with equal power.

thiss: you're a shill

BlackPhoenix: Im for Yelnoc as president

Restore4: then the senate per say could be the leaders of the local protests

RT4: I'm worried that creating a strict leadership will make a divide.

CaptainCool: I just heard from a friend a few neo nazis are going to try to hijack the boston protest

JordanL: if i get directly involved it will be at the national level

The_Mav: We need regional leadership

JordanL: personally

TheGrandpas: wow what

vArouet-NYC: As for a central figure: I don't think it should be a single person, but that's just me.  A group of people, sure, but not one person.

MouthingOff: < WITH RT$ on this

RT4: Agreed

Yelnoc: we don't need presidents but thanks

noise13: agreed

JordanL: absolutely yes

BlackPhoenix: As in a board?

Fourthe4th: Agreed NYC

TheGrandpas: def agreed

MouthingOff: i dont necesarily like structure leadership

Restore4: this isn't a strict leadership I'm suggesting I'm saying an executive committee

rt4patriot: why not the locals being elected, and the locals having representatives in a larger congress which elects leaders which are frequently replaced

restorethefourthfweb: yes keep it as a group, rotating leader

thiss: there definitely needs to be a leader

Kampfers: vArouet-NYC: agreed. like a board of directors

kiwi_46389: BETSY ROSS FLAGS, and if possible, a BETSY ROSS FLAG WITH A SUPERIMPOSED "4"

thiss: that's what caused occupy to fail

thiss: there was no leader

JordanL: leadership != control

snoo_9748: ^

webbster: i domt want an oligarchy

val: a board sounds good

freeze4096: ^

solxyz: we already seem organized enough, i dont see why we need more titles, etc

TheGrandpas: a representative of each state?

freeze4096: Jordanl++

Fourthe4th: We do need a leader though

Restore4: yes Jordan

kiwi_46389: yes leaders all the way, but not authoritarian

thiss: just a bunch of misguided unorganized kids

kiwi_79009: Agreed we do need some form of leadership in order to keep everything organized.

reddetteuser: This is going to be a weird movement.

solxyz: leadership, but no Leader

transformtheworld: there has to be leaders

Jezz: I like the idea of a state rep.

Kampfers: yeah

MarkSkull: I nominate myself Supreme Leader.

JordanL: coordination

Restore4: leader =/= controller

Fourthe4th: Someone who can be the voice of our movement

Yelnoc: alright, so that is the last topic that I can think of offhand that we need to discuss