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- [23:29:51] <Imagineer1212> still learning how this works
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- [23:30:02] <mdmcginnis> Chimes are ringing 4:30 here in Texas.
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- [23:30:15] <YoungDruid> btw. what base language are you taught in universities?
- [23:30:19] <LightKnight> Good evening
- [23:30:22] --> garrett_schlesin (~Adium@171.66.46.183) has joined #stanford-databases
- [23:30:33] <Imagineer1212> has anyone started on the interactive questions ??
- [23:30:35] <BethMonk> The think with punch cards is not to drop the stack before you put them into the reader. Otherwise it can take a long time to get things in order again!
- [23:30:36] <YoungDruid> we are taught Pascal or c++
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- [23:30:45] <CasperBHansen> At University of Copenhagen we start with SML and move on to Java
- [23:30:50] <garrett_schlesin> Hello all, I'm available to answer questions now
- [23:30:55] <Bruce> Is anyone having issues with installing the JSON plugin for Eclipse. I can not seem to get in installed
- [23:31:03] <CasperBHansen> From then on out we are pretty much free to choose any language
- [23:31:14] <JennyOest> Hi Garrett - Thanks for doing this!
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- [23:31:28] <LightKnight> yeah, thanks garrett_schlesin for your service :-)
- [23:31:29] <drostie> Imagineer1212: what do yoou mean the "interactive questions" exactly?
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- [23:31:48] <LightKnight> interactive questions: http://class2go.stanford.edu/db/Winter2013/interactive_exercises
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- [23:31:53] <Bruce> to BethMonk I did not think anyone used punch cards anymore
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- [23:31:57] <Guest5607> Garrett, I have a quick qwuestion about the abstract quiz question from Re. Algebra. Meaning, when they ask to consider R(A,B) with r unique tuples and S(B,C) with s unique tuples, I haven't any idea how to calculate it. Can anyone provide insight?
- [23:32:09] <RussiaM> Hello Garrett, I just signed up for the class today. Wondering how to get caught up? Should I skip the first assignment?
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- [23:32:27] <Imagineer1212> the interactive exercise
- [23:32:40] <drostie> Guest5607: aren't they just asking for the size of a Cartesian product?
- [23:32:50] <LightKnight> RussiaM: if you take a suggestion, you should do them, for training if nothing else
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- [23:33:33] <Bruce> Have any of the instructors logged in yet?
- [23:33:36] <Imagineer1212> go that part, need to know how to run validations for parsers
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- [23:33:52] <LightKnight> garrett_schlesin is here, Bruce
- [23:33:53] <garrett_schlesin> Guest5607: which question number are you referring to?
- [23:34:03] <Imagineer1212> #1
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- [23:34:16] <LightKnight> I haven't touched Rel. Alg. yet, need to hurry up :)
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- [23:34:34] <JennyOest> Is there a specific topic for today's discussion?
- [23:34:38] <Imagineer1212> getting error message that states parser error
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- [23:35:02] <garrett_schlesin> RussiaM, you haven't missed too much, so I would recommend starting from the beginning
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- [23:35:15] <Guest5607> Q3 from Re: Algebra Quiz. Just too abstract. I had to take that quiz to further flesh out how to calculate join and natural join, which I've figured out, but the abstraction isn't making sense.
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- [23:35:32] <garrett_schlesin> today, we're focusing on the work due next monday 01/28
- [23:35:37] <denys> Question about challenge-level exercises. Is it expected searching some new information to solve these exercise? Can I solve them using only information given in video lectures?
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- [23:35:39] <garrett_schlesin> if we have time, I can answer other questions
- [23:35:44] <JennyOest> thanks Garrett
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- [23:35:56] <Imagineer1212> OK thanks
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- [23:36:11] <CasperBHansen> I have a question; we were doing object-oriented programming and design exam last week, and following that the next day we had linear algebra exam. I didn't make the quiz before the due date, can I still complete the course with credentials and all that?
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- [23:36:22] <Bruce> Garrett could you post something about the Eclipse editor used in the video, I can not seem to get the sourceforge plugin installed in any version of eclipse. It would be nice to know information
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- [23:36:59] <AP_> Garrett - i was self learning your course on coursera. My question is if there are a large number of joins in a query, say 4-5 joins, is there a specific order in which the db processes them, say left to right or vice versa?
- [23:37:11] <Bruce> I want to work on the JSON problems but need to get an editor to work first
- [23:37:24] <garrett_schlesin> Guest5607: we're asking you to compute the number of possible tuples when you join R and S
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- [23:37:49] <drostie> Guest5607: ah. well let's take (5, 10, 500) first. Do you see why that's impossible?
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- [23:38:09] <ridebiscuit> json plugin in Chrome works great and is easy to install
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- [23:38:39] <LightKnight> nice to hear, ridebiscuit
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- [23:38:48] <CasperBHansen> anyone here that can answer questions about the course?
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- [23:38:51] <Bruce> Where do you find the JSON plugin for Chrome?
- [23:38:59] <garrett_schlesin> so, say you have one tuple in R [(1, 1)] and two tuples in S [(1, 1) and (1,2)]
- [23:39:16] <drostie> CasperBHansen: garrett is the TA.
- [23:39:18] <garrett_schlesin> then there will be two tuples in the join
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- [23:39:24] <ridebiscuit> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/search/json%20editor?utm_source=chrome-ntp-icon
- [23:39:27] <CasperBHansen> Alright :)
- [23:39:31] <garrett_schlesin> [(1,1,1) and (1,1,2)]
- [23:39:43] <Guest5607> okay, Now that is just for a join.
- [23:39:53] <BethMonk> Thanks, ridebiscuit.
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- [23:40:10] <garrett_schlesin> right, which is what we're asking about
- [23:40:11] <Bruce> thanks for the link I will try it
- [23:40:43] <Guest5607> How do you find an answer like 5, 0, 100 for variables with no value?
- [23:40:52] <garrett_schlesin> now, if there are 5 tuples in R and 10 tuples in S, what is the biggest number of tuples that can be in the join?
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- [23:41:19] <ridebiscuit> do you multiply? I don't get it.
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- [23:41:39] <Guest5607> 15
- [23:41:40] <JennyOest> 50 max
- [23:41:44] <garrett_schlesin> you get a tuple every time R.B = S.B
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- [23:42:02] <Imagineer1212> multipy the two variables
- [23:42:04] <Bruce> for 1/28 we need to complete the DTD interactive exercise, the JSON Quiz, and the Relational Algebra Quiz?
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- [23:43:02] <Matt___> Yes... the due dates are listed next to the assignments.
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- [23:43:13] <garrett_schlesin> so, if all of the R.B values are the same and all of the S.B values are the same, you end up with 5x10 tuples in the result
- [23:43:29] <garrett_schlesin> and that's the biggest the result can get
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- [23:43:37] <drostie> Guest5607: a natural join is not concatenation, it's not 10 + 5 that you get.
- [23:43:51] <Imagineer1212> great
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- [23:44:34] <db2k> hi folks. someone here who could help me? :)
- [23:44:42] <garrett_schlesin> hope that helps
- [23:44:55] <drostie> Guest5607: so just work out examples like {(1), (2)} x {(3), (4)} when the two columns have different names.
- [23:45:06] <Guest5607> okay, so that answers two of the questions that I had. In natural join and join you work your way through every permutation of say R(A,B) with 5 tuples compared against S(A,B) with 10 tuples looking for identical attributes, theoretically getting 50.
- [23:45:27] <garrett_schlesin> right
- [23:45:29] <drostie> right, they could theoretically have 50 or fewer, but no more.
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- [23:45:48] <garrett_schlesin> the natural join cannot have more tuples than the cartesian product
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- [23:46:00] <garrett_schlesin> since natural join is just a filtered cartesian product
- [23:46:07] <Guest5607> so, what do you do every time you add a relation, you have to multiply every potential instance for the max? The question had three relations?
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- [23:46:34] <garrett_schlesin> db2k: sure, I'm here to help
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- [23:46:50] <db2k> i've got a question regarding this exercise: "Remove all ratings where the movie's year is before 1970 or after 2000, and the rating is fewer than 4 stars. "
- [23:46:50] <garrett_schlesin> yes, that's correct
- [23:46:55] <Imagineer1212> I like the guest 5607 did this
- [23:47:07] <Guest5607> Obviously we are learning the algebraic functions as the foundation for the remainder of the course, not to keep on this way. Does it get easier from an algebraic standpoint?
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- [23:47:37] <garrett_schlesin> yes, Relational Algebra is the theoretical underpinning of SQL
- [23:47:49] <garrett_schlesin> so it's useful to understand for learning SQL
- [23:48:14] <Guest5607> Imagineer1212, did you find it a bit confusing as well? I am no mathmetician and am struggling a bit, but am enjoying myself immensely. Just a tad difficult.
- [23:48:25] <denys> <garrett_schlesin>Question about challenge-level exercises. Is it expected searching some new information to solve these exercise? Can I solve them using only information given in video lectures?
- [23:48:28] <garrett_schlesin> but you should find SQL less theoretical and very applicable
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- [23:48:59] <garrett_schlesin> denys: yes, you can solve challenge level exercises based on the content of the videos
- [23:49:12] <garrett_schlesin> they involve a little more critical thinking
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- [23:49:36] <garrett_schlesin> db2k: what is your question?
- [23:49:53] <db2k> suppose i got the candidates that need to be removed with
- [23:49:54] <db2k> select rID, mID, stars, ratingDate from Movie join Rating using(mID)
- [23:49:56] <db2k> where (year < 1970 or year > 2000) and stars < 4)
- [23:49:56] <MikeDub> when will the next office hours be?
- [23:50:00] <Imagineer1212> I understand the math portion, writing programs is new to me
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- [23:50:32] <garrett_schlesin> MikeDub: I'm planning to use this time slot every week for office hours
- [23:50:47] <db2k> i just do not understand how to delete these lines
- [23:50:49] <Imagineer1212> awesome
- [23:50:54] <stan_db> Q: Can I just "audit" the class and not turn in any quizzes or homework? I am learning a lot just by listening to the videos.
- [23:50:56] <MikeDub> k thx
- [23:51:02] <drostie> denys: did you have questions about particular challenge exercises? I could help with those maybe.
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- [23:51:20] <LightKnight> garrett_schlesin: cool. It would even suite my timezone, but I can't speak for others :)
- [23:51:25] <LightKnight> *suit
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- [23:51:53] <garrett_schlesin> stan_db: yes, you can "audit"
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- [23:51:59] <Guest5607> is there somewhere we can view this transcript, post-discussion, in case some questions are answered. I have to duck out. 5:00 CST.
- [23:52:00] <drostie> db2k: the obvious thing would be to invert that condition -- where NOT (stuff).
- [23:52:07] <garrett_schlesin> there is no penalty for not completing the course
- [23:52:27] <drostie> except that you don't complete it. ^_^
- [23:52:30] <JennyOest> Is there a way to turn off all the extraneous messages - the ins and outs?
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- [23:52:36] <garrett_schlesin> db2k: have you watched the SQL videos on delete?
- [23:52:46] <db2k> yes i have. but i can only access the lines that needed to be deleted via a key. and the rating
- [23:52:50] <Imagineer1212> yes drostie, I am working the interactive exercise right now . I did the first question and it has an error message stating a parser error can you help me?
- [23:52:53] <drostie> JennyOest: that depends on your chat client, most have some way.
- [23:53:03] <garrett_schlesin> this question is a case for the "delete from where" construction, as in http://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_delete.asp
- [23:53:12] <drostie> Imagineer1212: link me the page if that's possible?
- [23:53:19] <db2k> the primary key on the rating table would be the tuple out of the 4 attributes
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- [23:53:37] <drostie> Imagineer1212: I'm assuming you mean the relational algebra exercises?
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- [23:54:26] <db2k> tried delete from rating where (rID, mID, stars, ratingDate) in (select something) but sqlite wont take it :)
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- [23:55:04] <vorDd> did office hours start?
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- [23:55:16] <Imagineer1212> this is what it says??Error messages from xmllint: /tmp/tmpSG7uSi.dtd:1: parser error : ContentDecl : ',' '|' or ')' expected
- [23:55:20] <drostie> db2k: you might be able to limit to ids and just say where (rID) in (select ids) ?
- [23:55:53] <db2k> rID is not a primary key in Rating
- [23:55:54] <BruceGumbert> I have found that the http://www.w3resource.com/ web site has a lot of useful tutorials on just about everything in the course if you need some other source of information
- [23:56:00] <db2k> it would delete too much
- [23:56:00] <Imagineer1212> ok, I got it this is very new
- [23:56:25] <YoungDruid> db2k: so do = mId in (select ...) =
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- [23:56:33] <denys> <drostie> sanks, but I will try to solve them myself, can I ask questions next week if I won't solve them?
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- [23:56:39] <drostie> Imagineer1212: aha. Your DTD is written incorrectly. If you paste it to http://bpaste.net/ I might be able to help you.
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- [23:56:45] <stan_db> Thanks for the info BruceGumbert
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- [23:57:24] <BruceGumbert> When you are writing SQL the syntax has to be exact for the query if you misspell anything the query will not work
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- [23:57:52] <drostie> Imagineer1212: I would guess that you did something like <!ELEMENT element_name> and forgot to say what its children look like, but I can't know without more info.
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- [23:58:12] <BruceGumbert> Also there are variations in standard SQL syntax from one DB system to another MS SQL Server is really bad with non standard syntax
- [23:58:14] <RichGski> Are the challenge level exercises due on the same date as the regular exercise? They don't have a date in the schedule.
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- [23:59:04] <Imagineer1212> I pasted it to you. Can you so me where it is wrong
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- [23:59:06] <denys> <RichGski> they are due to the end of the course
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- [23:59:08] <garrett_schlesin> db2k: you could find the correct year range instead using something like "where mID in (select ….)"
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- [23:59:38] <garrett_schlesin> that will probably be a better strategy than using a join
- [00:00:00] - {Day changed to Fri Jan 25 00:00:00 2013}
- [00:00:22] <BruceGumbert> Garrett are you suggesting using a nested query ?
- [00:00:41] <db2k> ok. i could generate a mID set with the correct year range and a rID set with a correct rating range
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- [00:01:07] <voo> garrett can you talk about theta join?
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- [00:01:23] <tent405> what time do these office hours end?
- [00:01:25] <db2k> but that wont help me in the end ^^
- [00:01:27] <garrett_schlesin> possibly, or just conjoin "where rating < 4 and mid in (select …)"
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- [00:01:39] <garrett_schlesin> tent405: 4pm PST
- [00:01:50] <BruceGumbert> Also with multiple joins you can sometime generate a Cartesian in larger dataset which is very messy processing wise
- [00:01:52] <tent405> 2 hours from now?
- [00:01:57] <garrett_schlesin> voo: yes, what about theta join?
- [00:02:03] <garrett_schlesin> tent405: one hour
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- [00:02:34] <drostie> Imagineer1212: you have to give me the link.
- [00:02:38] <Imagineer1212> drostie did you re'd the pasted message
- [00:02:59] <voo> a two tuple relation to a three tuple relation -- how is the schema applied?
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- [00:03:10] <YoungDruid> garrett_schlesin: why is mId in (select) bad solution?
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- [00:03:20] <Imagineer1212> http://bpaste.net/show/jklnEB1t8a5UwzqEVDBq/
- [00:03:47] <garrett_schlesin> voo: not sure what you mean by "how is the schema applied?"
- [00:04:03] <drostie> Imagineer1212: paste me the DTD that you're using, is more helpful for me.
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- [00:04:46] <garrett_schlesin> YoungDruid: because "delete from where" basically goes through every tuple in the table, checks the "where" condition", and deletes if that condition is true
- [00:04:48] <Imagineer1212> <!ELEMENT countries (countries_name countries_population countries_area)> <! ATTLIST countries languages_ list CDATA languages> <! ATTLIST languages_id ID # REQUIRED> <! ATTLIST countries population_ name CDATA cities> <! ATTLIST population_area ID # REQUIRED>
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- [00:05:16] <Imagineer1212> This easy for some, but new to me !!
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- [00:05:33] <garrett_schlesin> the problem specifies that you only delete ratings with a review < 4 stars
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- [00:05:49] <sonlevu> voo: 2 tuples multiply to 3 tuples--> you get a new relation with 6 tuples
- [00:05:58] <db2k> AND a certain production year
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- [00:06:33] <LightKnight> challenge-level exercises are graded and are due by the end of the course -- did I get it right?
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- [00:07:04] <garrett_schlesin> so if your statement starts with "delete from Review where", then you already have access to the information about the rating, so you can just check right there if the rating is < 4 stars
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- [00:07:20] <libertyfire> end of the course = March 23
- [00:07:28] <LightKnight> yes
- [00:07:30] <db2k> mhh
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- [00:07:32] <BruceGumbert> Garrett are there any other relational algebra tools or additional information you would recommend. That is the one area of the course I could use some more background on
- [00:07:34] <LightKnight> or so I understod
- [00:07:38] <LightKnight> *understood
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- [00:07:41] <garrett_schlesin> no need to do something complicated by checking in a subquery if the rating is < 4 stars, since it's available at the top level
- [00:07:58] <Imagineer1212> http://bpaste.net/?reply_to=ilFkIx6eejpcEd1Iqae9
- [00:08:04] <drostie> Imagineer1212: okay. The first problem is just that (a b c d) does not have a meaning for child elements in DTD. separating things by whitespace has no meaning.
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- [00:08:16] <RichGski> See http://class2go.stanford.edu/db/Winter2013/pages/grading for when challenge level exercises are due
- [00:08:17] <db2k> got it. THANK YOU!!! :)
- [00:08:18] <drostie> Imagineer1212: you probably want (a, b, c, d), the comma operator.
- [00:08:23] <garrett_schlesin> voo: that's the maximum
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- [00:08:50] <RussiaM> BruceGumbert: Thanks for the link, SQL JOIN Cheat Sheet is super helpful
- [00:08:54] <garrett_schlesin> but, it's possible to have fewer tuples in a natural join or theta join
- [00:09:07] <-> Walt is now known as Guest47725
- [00:09:25] <drostie> Imagineer1212: you will also run into other problems like <!ATTLIST ...> not <! ATTLIST ...> but I trust that you can figure such things out?
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- [00:09:45] <voo> garrett_schlesin i guess i'm stuck on having something equal like in the join -- theta join doesn't really always give a tuple -- so thanks anyway
- [00:09:50] <garrett_schlesin> BruceGumbert: you could try the extra relational algebra problems (http://class2go.stanford.edu/db/Winter2013/pages/opt-rel-algebra)
- [00:10:08] <garrett_schlesin> they're not autograded, but they will provide you with extra practice
- [00:10:12] <Imagineer1212> OK I see now !!!
- [00:10:31] <garrett_schlesin> voo: I'm still not sure what you mean
- [00:10:41] <garrett_schlesin> theta join always takes a condition
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- [00:11:06] <garrett_schlesin> it's equivalent to a cross product which is then filtered by a select
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- [00:12:17] <BruceGumbert> Garrett thanks for the info. I completed a DB course over 10 years ago and just need some refresher info on RA since we did not cover it in to much details since most of the students did not have strong math background
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- [00:12:35] <tent405> garrett_schlesin: i'm having a problem understanding the phrasing of RA challenge #1. the crucial part that i'm not understanding is "or that cost less than $10... everywhere they're served".
- [00:12:36] <tent405> Well first of all a pizza can't cost something at a place where it's not served, so that just reads "or that cost less than $10".. and that includes all pizzas.. what am i missing?
- [00:12:36] <tent405> Could you rephrase it a different way
- [00:13:12] <Aloha> hi, I finished all the DTD exercises but there's 1 dumb question. What does * mean? It seems to mean both OPTIONAL and CAN HAVE MORE THAN 1 OCCURENCES to me. Is that right?
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- [00:13:43] <libertyfire> * means zero or more
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- [00:13:48] <LightKnight> Aloha: "*" mean "any number of occurrences, from 0 to infinity"
- [00:13:59] <Imagineer1212> thank you, I need more practice with this and if I can figure out where I am going wrong then it will be easier for me to find.
- [00:14:04] <LightKnight> "+": 0 or more; "+": 1 or more; "?": 1 or 2
- [00:14:12] <garrett_schlesin> tent405: that means that the pizza costs less than $10 at every place where it's served
- [00:14:15] <drostie> tent405: not that costs less than $10 at one place, but that costs less than $10 at every restaurant which serves it.
- [00:14:30] <BethMonk> ?: 0 or 1
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- [00:14:44] <LightKnight> erm, 0 or 1, of course.
- [00:14:49] <garrett_schlesin> put another way, the pizza never costs more than $10
- [00:14:49] -*- LightKnight sleepy :)
- [00:14:56] <garrett_schlesin> hope that helps
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- [00:14:59] <tent405> ok thanks that makes sense now
- [00:15:02] <drostie> Aloha: A* is equivalent to A+?
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- [00:15:16] <drostie> .
- [00:15:29] <LightKnight> if you have no "A", this satisfies A*, but not A+, so no, they're not equivalent.
- [00:15:34] <BruceGumbert> thanks for the feedback on the RA stuff. Need to get back to work on the course
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- [00:15:47] <garrett_schlesin> drostie: A* means 0-infinity, A+ means 1-infinity
- [00:15:56] <garrett_schlesin> A? means 0 or 1
- [00:16:10] <dubs12> i thought ? meant optional?
- [00:16:10] <drostie> LightKnight, garrett_schlesin, I understand that that line ended with a question mark but it was not a question; that was syntax. :P
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- [00:16:23] <garrett_schlesin> lol
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- [00:16:49] <garrett_schlesin> that's an example of a parsing error ;)
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- [00:16:58] <pattdaddy> dubs12: the 0 makes it optional
- [00:17:14] <LightKnight> uhm, I guess (A+)? means 0 or 1 occurrences of A+...
- [00:17:19] <drostie> I should have chosen the other order to ask the question to prevent parse errors.
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- [00:17:25] <LightKnight> :)
- [00:17:32] <brian_> hello everyone
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- [00:18:06] <LightKnight> hi brian_
- [00:18:29] <db2k> you need to escape the plus sign then
- [00:18:34] <voo> garrett_schlesin awesome job, i gotta go now, but thanks for your time and energy -- kudos
- [00:18:43] <Aloha> thanks friends!
- [00:18:46] <garrett_schlesin> voo: you're welcome
- [00:18:47] <dubs12> probably asked before, where can i install xmllint?
- [00:18:48] <garrett_schlesin> good luck
- [00:19:18] <garrett_schlesin> dubs12: have you seen: http://class2go.stanford.edu/db/Winter2013/pages/xml-guide
- [00:19:18] <db2k> dubs - i'm using notepad++ with xml plugin
- [00:19:27] <dubs12> ok
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- [00:19:47] <Mastermnd> hi everyone
- [00:19:53] <LightKnight> hi Mastermnd
- [00:20:03] <brian_> does anyone here use linux? if so whats a good xml platform for linux
- [00:20:06] <Imagineer1212> garrett will you be moving fast in this course ????
- [00:20:08] <garrett_schlesin> dubs: FYI, for xml editing (and lots of other code editing), I've been using Sublime Text 2
- [00:20:10] <dubs12> might try notepad++ alright
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- [00:20:18] <LightKnight> brian_: I don't know, I always used xmllint :P
- [00:20:25] <LightKnight> but I'm open to suggestions :-)
- [00:20:35] <drostie> brian_: I'm using Kate to edit, xmllint to verify.
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- [00:20:49] <dubs12> are most of you guys running win or lin?
- [00:20:53] <Mastermnd> it might be just be being tired (it's 12:20am here) but i think i've found a small mistake in the accepted answer for the exercises for section "SQL Social-Network Query Exercises (challenge-level)" ... question 4
- [00:20:55] <brian_> lightknight thanks
- [00:21:00] <LightKnight> I'm on Linux (Debian)
- [00:21:01] <db2k> works like a charm on win based systems :)
- [00:21:09] <drostie> I'm running Kubuntu. ^_^
- [00:21:10] <brian_> ok will work with that then
- [00:21:17] <dubs12> i can go with either
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- [00:21:42] <Mastermnd> anybody here to confirm? :P i think it's counting friendships twice in the average when it shouldn't be
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- [00:21:46] <brian_> kubuntu here
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- [00:22:14] <garrett_schlesin> Mastermnd: not sure what you mean
- [00:22:14] <dubs12> think i'll switch to mint for the remainder of the course
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- [00:22:50] <Astorre> Hi students :)
- [00:22:55] <dubs12> hey
- [00:23:01] <Mastermnd> without disclosing the full answer, i think the answer should include condition "WHERE F.ID1 < F.ID2" but it doesn't
- [00:23:01] <brian_> also is the course assuming you have some programming background?
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- [00:23:06] <Mastermnd> the average should be 2.0 not 2.5
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- [00:23:32] <dubs12> im only at JSON DATA section in this course
- [00:23:36] <Toest> Hi is anyone taking questions ?
- [00:23:46] <Jaak1946> I have Ubuntu linux
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- [00:24:19] <drostie> I'll take a question if you ask it in chat. ^_^
- [00:24:21] <Toest> Such as what is DTD for : <Description>Natural language processing. Cross-listed as <Courseref Number="LING180"/>.</Description> ???
- [00:24:23] <dubs12> very interesting and enjoying it so far..if only i can get more time to study :(
- [00:24:40] <Astorre> Hi, could someone finger me a good tutorial on DTD?
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- [00:25:03] <Mastermnd> Toest: that's the trickiest part in the whole section :) Hint: Try looking for "mixed content dtd"
- [00:25:10] <drostie> Toest: the child elements are (#PCDATA | Courseref)*. Zero or more text nodes mixed with Courserefs.
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- [00:25:47] <Mastermnd> drostie: when i wrote that i got a lint error saying the result was not deterministic
- [00:25:56] <Toest> I found the mixed content but my parser will not accept.
- [00:26:03] <Mastermnd> I used "ANY" :)
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- [00:26:38] <nadrimajstor> What #PCDATA stands for?
- [00:26:38] <Toest> The problem is that Courseref is actuallyt Courseref number !
- [00:26:39] <garrett_schlesin> Mastermnd: I don't think there's an error
- [00:26:40] <dubs12> have you guys done the DTD Exercises yet?
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- [00:27:00] <db2k> yupp
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- [00:27:02] <Astorre> no
- [00:27:05] <drostie> Toest: "number" is not the nodeName, it is an attribute.
- [00:27:30] <pattdaddy> PCDATA is a term originated from SGML, short for "Parsed Character Data"... google is your friend
- [00:27:34] <tent405> garrett_schlesin: when is the next office hour?
- [00:27:35] <Mastermnd> garrett_schlesin can i /msg you?
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- [00:27:38] <Toest> Oh... I will try any. Oh its done with an ATTLIST. I will try it !!!! THanks !
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- [00:27:57] <garrett_schlesin> Mastermnd: I would prefer no direct messages
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- [00:28:22] <nadrimajstor> pattdaddy: It is easier to ask on IRC :)
- [00:28:45] <garrett_schlesin> tent405: I'm planning to hold office hours at the same time every week
- [00:28:54] <Mastermnd> ok the reason i was saying i thought there was a problem is that Friend contains tuples of the form (123,456) and (456,123) because they are bidirectional
- [00:28:55] <LightKnight> nadrimajstor: stackoverflow.com/questions/918450/difference-between-pcdata-and-cdata-in-dtd
- [00:29:02] <pattdaddy> i disagree
- [00:29:03] <LightKnight> nadrimajstor: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918450/difference-between-pcdata-and-cdata-in-dtd
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- [00:29:21] <garrett_schlesin> Mastermnd: right, but that shouldn't cause problems
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- [00:29:40] <garrett_schlesin> you're trying to find the average number of friends per student
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- [00:29:56] <garrett_schlesin> so you start by counting the number of friendships per student
- [00:30:04] <nadrimajstor> What will happen when Stacks go offline?
- [00:30:29] <nadrimajstor> What will happen when Stacks go offline? :D
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- [00:30:33] <garrett_schlesin> since the tuples are bidirectional, that means you can do this very easily by grouping by the first ID
- [00:30:41] <Mastermnd> yes that's exactly what i did
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- [00:31:17] <garrett_schlesin> direct message me your query, and I'll see if I can help
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- [00:31:46] <drostie> nadrimajstor: won't be as bad as when Wikipedia falls.
- [00:32:18] <nadrimajstor> drostie: All of develping skills will be gone :D
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- [00:33:36] <libertyfire> beets. i hate 'em
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- [00:34:19] <nadrimajstor> Where is our professor? I want to say hi and thanks :)
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- [00:34:58] <drostie> the TA might relay it across? :D
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- [00:35:17] <garrett_schlesin> the professor isn't logged on
- [00:35:25] <garrett_schlesin> just me, the TA
- [00:35:32] <nadrimajstor> @TAs please be kind to
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- [00:36:13] <drostie> is it intimidating as a TA to have a many-thousand-person course? :D
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- [00:36:26] <Toest> Here is my DTD for <Description>Natural language processing. Cross-listed as <Courseref Number="LING180"/>.</Description> : <!ELEMENT Description (#PCDATA|CourseRef)*>
- [00:36:26] <nadrimajstor> ROFL
- [00:36:28] <garrett_schlesin> a little bit
- [00:36:31] <Toest> <!ATTLIST CourseRef Number CDATA #REQUIRED>
- [00:36:43] <Toest> This does not seem to work !
- [00:37:02] <BruceGumbert> garrett I wanted to use the eclipse editor so I was wondering which one is being used in the videos and if that information along with the JSON plug in be posted in the software guide section
- [00:37:09] <steve__> Whads a TA???
- [00:37:21] <BruceGumbert> Teaching Assistant
- [00:37:22] <Mastermnd> Toest: it's not a CDATA
- [00:37:26] <steve__> ic
- [00:37:34] <nadrimajstor> Santas little helper :d
- [00:37:45] <drostie> Toest: try Courseref not CourseRef? I'm not sure if XML is case-sensitive.
- [00:37:55] <Toest> Ooooh.
- [00:37:59] <steve__> christmas is already over:)
- [00:38:03] <nadrimajstor> Tantas Alittle helper :d
- [00:38:40] <garrett_schlesin> BruceGumbert: I use eclipse Indigo
- [00:38:45] <sonlevu> <garrett_schlesin> Could you please give an example of using SQL and/or XML,JSON on a website, and explain briefly how it works with HTML,javascript,PHP? I've worked with HTML and Javascript(some simple exercises), but have never used sql.
- [00:39:11] <nadrimajstor> Can using any IDE rally help in learning ?
- [00:39:12] <Mastermnd> how about amazon
- [00:39:26] <BruceGumbert> Ok thanks I will try that but and will give them a call if I can not get the JSON plugin installed.
- [00:39:29] <Mastermnd> sql is used to access all info about stock, etc
- [00:39:33] <Matt___> This is a joke. It would be more productive to field questions via e-mail throughout the week and then post responses to items that don't involve Christmas.
- [00:39:33] <Mastermnd> user accounts
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- [00:39:58] <BruceGumbert> which ANSI SQL standard are we using for the course?
- [00:40:01] <Mastermnd> sonlevu: have you used PHP?
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- [00:40:20] <sonlevu> no, i haven't
- [00:40:34] <Mastermnd> matt: christmas stuff goes to the north pole tho
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- [00:40:46] <garrett_schlesin> BruceGumbert: pretty sure this is the plugin: http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipsejsonedit/
- [00:41:01] <Toest> Um, mastermind can you give me a hint here ?
- [00:41:08] <nadrimajstor> I'm leaving at North Pole... According to the Google Maps :D
- [00:41:11] <LightKnight> something lighter than Eclipse to work with JSON? :-)
- [00:41:15] <tent405> vi
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- [00:41:21] <LightKnight> ha :)
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- [00:41:36] <BruceGumbert> I tried NotePad++ plugin but does not work well
- [00:41:37] <Toest> An entity ?
- [00:41:49] <Mastermnd> Toest: try to use IDREF instead of CDATA for that attribute... even the name suggests it's a reference ;)
- [00:42:08] <Mastermnd> bruce: the notepad++ plugin is what i used... works like a charm
- [00:42:13] <BruceGumbert> Garrett thanks for the plugin url I was finding a different one on sourceforge that would not install properly
- [00:42:14] <Mastermnd> xml tools plugin right?
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- [00:42:37] <sonlevu> we sent user name and password through html form to the server and the server access its database using sql?
- [00:42:48] <BruceGumbert> Mastermnd the Notepad++ xml tools plug in works great
- [00:42:51] <Mastermnd> Toest: just change CDATA for IDREF
- [00:42:54] <AndyKay> LightKnight: an hour ago, somebody suggested using a Chrome application to edit JSON. To me it looks quite good so far
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- [00:43:11] <LightKnight> AndyKay: saw that, thanks. I think I'll try it :)
- [00:43:16] <BruceGumbert> Have not tried that yet but I will
- [00:43:29] <BethMonk> Yes, I'm planning to try it too.
- [00:43:46] <BewareofDoug> drostie: yes, xml is case sensitive
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- [00:44:07] <garrett_schlesin> sonlevu: you can embed SQL queries into PHP for dynamic webpages
- [00:44:42] <nadrimajstor> XML should be case sensitive... I'm not sure how M$ stands on this :D
- [00:44:56] <garrett_schlesin> typically, the PHP on a page will hold onto a handle to a database and display information based on who you are and what you click
- [00:44:57] <Toest> Ok I tried this but get err: CourseRef unexpected to content model. Do i have to declare Number as an ID ?
- [00:44:58] <pdub79> Hi, Garrett. Sorry for joining late. (1) Are there any rules for this IRC chat? Or do we just ask you anything about the class / assignments? (2) Can we find the textbook material online anywhere?
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- [00:45:26] <Benedict_> hi guys
- [00:45:28] <AndyKay> By the way, what text editor does Prof. Widom use in the videos? Seems to be emacs (???)
- [00:45:30] <Vivekananda> hello everyone
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- [00:45:42] <Vivekananda> did the TA session end ?
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- [00:45:45] <BewareofDoug> AndyKay: which videos?
- [00:46:01] <BewareofDoug> She uses different ones in different videos
- [00:46:03] <garrett_schlesin> Vivekananda: I'm still here
- [00:46:04] <Benedict_> how did the class go today
- [00:46:05] <AndyKay> BewareofDoug: XML Data
- [00:46:19] <Vivekananda> garrett_schlesin: I just had one or two general questions
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- [00:46:31] <AndyKay> I haven't reached other ones yet, planning to do so on the weekend ...
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- [00:46:39] <Mastermnd> Toest: First correct the caps problem. Then be aware the Courseref is pointing to a course. so the Course number is an ID and Courseref is an IDREF
- [00:46:42] <LightKnight> In the XML videos it's Emacs, yes :-)
- [00:46:49] <garrett_schlesin> pdub79: there are recommended textbook readings on the course website
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- [00:46:57] <Vivekananda> I did the challenge levels on my own but for one , getting the max value in a column I basically found hints online
- [00:46:58] <AndyKay> Oh... Emacs in Windows
- [00:47:09] <LightKnight> yes, it seems to be
- [00:47:13] <jimzhang> Just to see if my typing works
- [00:47:15] <garrett_schlesin> and no, there aren't strictly rules for the IRC chat - just ask questions about upcoming assignments
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- [00:47:39] <Toest> Oh.. This must be the case as the XML is written then ? I didn't pick up on that. THanks will try.
- [00:47:50] <Vivekananda> I want to ask you to gimme some reading material or hints for a little advanced problem solving like that. The books are not that intensive for either giving such problems of getting ways to solve it
- [00:47:56] <Guest41116> Hi, Garrett and all - how do you open the JSON file in a browser so that you have the option to expand as Jennifer did in the video?
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- [00:48:24] <Vivekananda> I need some foothold to be able to think coz if I know select and join only then coming up with max value for a column would be pretty tough
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- [00:48:31] <BewareofDoug> No, it's Xemacs
- [00:48:34] <BewareofDoug> not emacs
- [00:48:39] <BewareofDoug> The prof is using Xemacs
- [00:48:43] <LightKnight> ah, Xemacs
- [00:49:02] <BewareofDoug> emacs is a lot less gui
- [00:49:17] <AndyKay> Right
- [00:49:19] <garrett_schlesin> Vivekananda: these exercises are meant to challenge your critical thinking abilities; all of the tools you need to solve the problems are in the videos
- [00:49:27] <Vivekananda> garrett_schlesin: did the professor herself join in too at some point?
- [00:49:32] <garrett_schlesin> I can give hints, but you need to be more specific
- [00:49:35] -*- AndyKay is still choosing the *right* text editor
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- [00:49:55] <nadrimajstor> nano ?
- [00:49:57] <Mastermnd> notepad++ or eclipse for the win :P
- [00:49:57] <BewareofDoug> garrett_schlesin: not true, you have to go the specs, e.g. there's nothing in the videos re <xsd:choice>, but you can't do the quiz without that
- [00:50:14] <Vivekananda> garrett_schlesin: I can ask you for a hint but I would rather like to know new ways of using the basic add and substract and then think myself
- [00:50:20] <Vivekananda> although I finished the challanges :)
- [00:50:24] <steve__> All th etools you need to solve ar ein the video??
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- [00:50:32] <Vivekananda> but there will be more in the sql too right ?
- [00:50:46] <steve__> Division was never mentioned in his video lectures....
- [00:50:51] <nadrimajstor> notepad2 in win :'
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- [00:51:05] <steve__> for relational algebra for challenge qn5 in RA
- [00:51:10] <Vivekananda> steve__: the tools of course are I think we need more critical material for critical thinking :)
- [00:51:31] <pdub79> Garrett - I see that textbook sections are recommended on the website. But I'm talking about the actual text. Do we actually have to buy the textbook? Or am I looking in the wrong place: https://class2go.stanford.edu/db/Winter2013/pages/readings.
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- [00:51:38] <BewareofDoug> ah steve__ , yes, if you can use them, not everything there works on windows, not everything works on mac
- [00:51:39] <Benedict_> Hi vivekanada
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- [00:51:44] <garrett_schlesin> Vivekananda: it's really easier if you ask specific questions
- [00:51:49] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: hello
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- [00:52:07] <garrett_schlesin> pdub79: you don't need to buy the textbook
- [00:52:12] <Benedict_> did u attend the class for 9pm today
- [00:52:14] <Vivekananda> garrett_schlesin: ok one specific is how do I find the max value in a column in a table of integers
- [00:52:28] <nadrimajstor> Will I ever user Relational Algebra in real life situations?
- [00:52:29] <Vivekananda> second what is the meaningn of "string" < "string"
- [00:52:40] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: which class?
- [00:52:41] <garrett_schlesin> but if you want to do the readings listed on that page, then you'll obviously need to buy the book
- [00:52:50] <Mastermnd> vivekanada: remember you always have google too... if you type just that plus the word "sqlite" and "example" you'll get tons :P
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- [00:52:59] <Benedict_> tought there was class today
- [00:53:20] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: again what class? class for what ?
- [00:53:29] <Guest41116> @<garrett_schlesin>: how do you open the JSON file in a browser so that you have the option to expand as Jennifer did in the video?
- [00:53:31] <Benedict_> Rational database
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- [00:53:47] <garrett_schlesin> Vivekananda: the best way to find a max is to 1) find everything that is less than something 2) subtract that result from the list of everything
- [00:53:47] <drostie> Vivekananda: strings are compared *lexicographically*. So "a" < "abc" < "ac".
- [00:54:14] <pattdaddy> Benedict_, you can log in to class anytime :)
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- [00:54:25] <Benedict_> ok
- [00:54:45] <pdub79> Thanks, Garrett. That's what I was wanting to confirm with my textbook question. I want to do the reading.
- [00:54:48] <Vivekananda> question: What is the level for the extra problems considering regulars as 2 and challenging as 5 -6
- [00:54:50] <nadrimajstor> Vivekananda: Luke use the join
- [00:54:51] <tommy1975> Hi Garret
- [00:54:53] <cpw> is this IRC going to be a regular Thursday thing?
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- [00:55:05] <moko1> garrett_schlesin: which book that be again please?
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- [00:55:11] <Benedict_> pattdady was thinking it has a specific time for live class
- [00:55:13] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: are you taking about the hangout ??
- [00:55:21] <drostie> Guest41116: depends on the browser, but in Firefox use the JS console or the Firebug extension; in chrome/chromium use the JS console.
- [00:55:23] <Vivekananda> google plust ?
- [00:55:30] <tent405> garrett_schlesin: i still don't understand.. to find the most expensive pizza(s).. using RA.. i'm still clueless on how that could be done
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- [00:55:40] <Guest41116> @drostie: thanks! trying it now.
- [00:55:45] <Vivekananda> tent405: I got it
- [00:55:46] <garrett_schlesin> Guest41116: I recommend using the JSONView plugin on Chrome
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- [00:55:53] <Vivekananda> :)
- [00:55:56] <-- RussiaM (~dataengin@act181-77.ucsd.edu) has quit
- [00:55:57] <tommy1975> I am actually struggling on Reletional Design Theory!
- [00:56:28] <tommy1975> It is pretty hard to find solutions
- [00:56:41] <garrett_schlesin> tent405: you compute the max using a set difference
- [00:56:43] <nadrimajstor> I am actually clueless what relational design theory is :(
- [00:56:49] <garrett_schlesin> you have the set of everything
- [00:56:57] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: I was thoroughly confused :) sorry about that
- [00:57:01] <Paco_> How can I get the trasncription of this sesion ?
- [00:57:20] <tent405> right, that's just the serves relation itself
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- [00:57:23] <cpw> Hi, will there be 'Office Hours' via IRC regularly on Thursdays, 2:30 to 4:00PM?
- [00:57:24] <flosakura> does anyone have a log of the whole office hour? i came in late. :)
- [00:57:24] <Vivekananda> Paco_: One way is to log the session in your irc client
- [00:57:25] <Benedict_> viviekanada_ no problem
- [00:57:29] <garrett_schlesin> and you can compute the set of things that are less than something else by doing a cross product of the set with itself and filtering
- [00:57:45] <garrett_schlesin> then, you can compute the max using a difference between these two sets
- [00:57:51] <tent405> ahhhhh that's where cross product is important i was wondering when i'd have to use it
- [00:57:52] <Paco_> Thanks Vivekanada
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- [00:58:11] <tent405> i think that was briefly discussed in the video i'll have to go back and look
- [00:58:23] <garrett_schlesin> i.e. the max is just something that is not less than anything else
- [00:58:29] <nadrimajstor> garrett_schlesin: Spoilers :p
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- [00:58:44] <Mastermnd> tent405: it's also important when you want to present two unrelated values horizontally, for example
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- [00:58:52] <garrett_schlesin> cpw: I will have office hours every Thursday from 2:30-4pm
- [00:59:01] <garrett_schlesin> they won't always be on IRC, though
- [00:59:07] <drostie> Mastermnd: which is important in the last two challenges. ^_^
- [00:59:08] <Vivekananda> the Professor's lectures are getting more and interesting to me coz I find that if I miss a line or a word I might end up missing a problem
- [00:59:23] <garrett_schlesin> I'm going to experiment with different ways of holding office hours and see what works best
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- [00:59:52] <drostie> Vivekananda: you may find it helpful to watch lectures multiple times because usually the brain works by reinforcing associations rather than absorbing information.
- [00:59:59] <flosakura> garrett_schlesin: what other formats are you thinking?
- [01:00:02] <Vivekananda> garrett_schlesin: I have already solved the question with the hints you gave to tent405 above I am just wondering how I am supposed to come up with it by myself :(
- [01:00:03] <nadrimajstor> I'm going to experiment with few thousends studnes :D
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- [01:00:16] <Mark_> garrett_schlesin: is a crossproduct an O(n^2) operation for time and space? it seems a bit impractical if the db is large?
- [01:00:19] <Benedict_> vivekanada_can u help me with the materials u got, my internet is slow here
- [01:00:22] <garrett_schlesin> I'm glad I could do this session!
- [01:00:29] <garrett_schlesin> I need to go to class now
- [01:00:30] <drostie> Vivekananda: you're supposed to be creative and it's supposed to be challenging.
- [01:00:31] <Vivekananda> sure what do you need
- [01:00:37] <garrett_schlesin> good luck to all, and I'll see you next week
- [01:00:37] <tommy1975> cross product renaming attributes then selection attrib1 < attrib2 eliminating the duplicate then (list of attrib1) /diff (list of attrib2) u got the max
- [01:00:38] <Vivekananda> where are you
- [01:00:40] <flosakura> thanks garrett_schlesin
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- [01:00:44] <Vivekananda> drostie: yeah I guess :) :)
- [01:00:51] <AndyKay> Thank you for visiting us, garrett_schlesin
- [01:00:52] <Mastermnd> Mark_ n*m but close to n^2 so yeah, it's expensive
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- [01:00:58] <Vivekananda> drostie: are you a TA too ?
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- [01:01:02] <LightKnight> thanks garrett_schlesin, until next time :)
- [01:01:04] <garrett_schlesin> (I might try an AMA on Reddit, for the curious… I'll send out an official announcement with details later this week)
- [01:01:06] <nadrimajstor> garrett_schlesin: bye
- [01:01:16] <Vivekananda> Benedict_: what do you need ?
- [01:01:16] <drostie> I am not a TA for this course but I've been helping people in this chat whenever possible. ^_^
- [01:01:16] <Mastermnd> thanks garrett
- [01:01:18] <brian_> thanks garrett
- [01:01:19] <AndyKay> Oh, AMA would be cool!
- [01:01:28] <drostie> yeah, thanks garrett, enjoy class.
- [01:01:35] <AndyKay> The 2nd A means anything, garrett_schlesin, hope you know it :)
- [01:01:37] <BethMonk> Thanks Garrett
- [01:01:39] <flosakura> garrett_schlesin: we had a google+ hangout studysession... worked really well since we can hav eplugins to show each other screens and type out the database on excel
- [01:01:44] <Vivekananda> thanks garrett_schlesin
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- [01:02:01] <Adriana> Thank you Garrett
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- [01:02:16] <Benedict_> vivekanada video of the lecture and some clue on issue resolution
- [01:02:45] <Jaak1946> Thank you, Garrett
- [01:02:46] <Mark_> Thanks Garrett
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