Untitled

5:58 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hey atom :)

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Away.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

7:38 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: hi mate

7:38 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: whats up?

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Offline.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Away.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Away.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Away.

9:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hey sorry for the late reply

9:07 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i added you because of this appeal :)

9:07 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/76561198016133281-quixotism-sop-scammer.4629/

9:07 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i've talked to both the victim and the scammer :)

9:08 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: and witnessed the whole chat, and trade which happened :)

9:08 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i believe it is now resolved :)

9:09 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: and the scammer is geniunly wanting to turn over a new leaf :)

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

9:24 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: please review it, thank you :)

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Away.

atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2 is now Online.

9:33 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Hi mate

9:33 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: yeh got my hands full but I'll take a look at it

9:34 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thanks bro do it when ur free :)

9:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: remember this, its all well and good that the scmamer has reconciled with the victim

9:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: that idea of restorative justice is nice

9:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: but what about the risk to the community?

9:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Does reconciling with the victim enable the scammer to reconcile with the imminent threat he may pose to the tf2 trade community?

9:35 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: That is why paying back items is always inadequate, though a nice gesture

9:36 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: he wouldnt have to pay anything back if it wasnt scammed in the first place. The scammers intent is inherent, its not as simple as "oh I am changing my ways"

9:36 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: just some food for thought.

9:37 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i understand that and have thought about it. Based on the chatlogs which is my conversation with him, he appears that he wants to make a change and hes been banned for 7 months which i believe its enough atonement time..correct me if im wrong..

9:38 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: his intention is shown through his honesty and actions and not only based on speech.

9:38 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: it's your call anyways im not rushing you, just to let you know about this case :)

9:38 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thanks for the help :)

9:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and procedurally his appeal is invalid..

9:39 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: oh..

9:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: i was reading your first chatlog

9:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and double checked his profile.

9:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: he has 3 appeals

9:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: which site

9:40 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: steamrep, reddit or tf2t

9:40 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: 3 appeals. reddit sop and steamrep

9:40 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Don't know if you checked bro, but ppl who have multiple tags need to address the other tags first

9:40 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i did question him about reddit and steamrep he said he doesn't know.

9:40 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: okay. i understand

9:40 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i'll investigate more into it

9:41 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ill also let him know that he needs to address the other tags

9:41 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: on the other community first.

9:42 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: isit possible to archive it?

9:42 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Just posting a response.

9:43 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: http://www.sourceop.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=859233

9:43 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: did he return items to this fellow?

9:44 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it was him no?

9:44 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: yes he returned the items equal to the same value of the hat to this fellow named foamy

9:44 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: ok roger.

9:45 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: verification of identity confirmed as well : http://gyazo.com/46f6fb93d7f172d264b5dbf6639acce4

9:45 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: sop pm message: http://gyazo.com/157c4b1f8798a75f34c8804e5d8c84a7

9:45 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: sorry pm*

9:46 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: yep

9:46 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: ok cool

9:48 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Did any of the sr appeal admins know you were approaching the this person about his appeal?

9:48 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: this*

9:50 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: to be honest no

9:50 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: however they told me that i could add any person up to do investigative work

9:52 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: helen told you?

9:53 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i cant rmb who, its either helen or chaos :)

9:53 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: was on mumbles chat...

9:53 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: when i asked

9:53 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: but its not on this person

9:53 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i asked if i can add anyone up to ask qns regarding the appeal etc..

9:55 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: ahh righteo

9:56 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thanks atom

9:56 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: so im not allowed to add anyone next time just to help out?

9:57 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: because this is not the first time im helping out...i love to help out on reports...

9:58 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ok i've inform quixoism to address the other tags, thanks for the info..

9:58 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: :)

9:59 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: well if helen or chaos said it was ok thats fine.

9:59 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: And we are very appreciative of the help you have given

9:59 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: I have been watching from a far ;)

10:00 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Just ensure you keep your opinions informed

10:00 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and the community first.

10:00 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: okay i got it, i have to inform authorities first before i make any move. thanks :)

10:00 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: move on my own*

10:00 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: well you don't but it would be nice out of courtesy

10:01 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: when I mean opinions informed, make comment when you have the facts in front of you

10:01 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: don't assume or pass judgement too quickly.

10:01 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: again, just some friendly advice :)

10:01 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thanks for the friendly advice :)

10:02 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ok ill try not to judge a person too quickly next time or assume anything* i'm sorry abt that

10:02 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i got it

10:02 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: facts > assumption + judgement

10:03 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Do you want me to give you some insight as to how I would approach this current case?

10:03 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Just looking briefly at the logs etc

10:03 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: YES!

10:03 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: that would be awesome

10:03 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ^_^

10:04 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: need some wise advice

10:04 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thats all ?

10:04 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: at the logs..

10:04 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: what logs are u talking abt

10:04 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ;p

10:04 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: no like your screenies, the trade etc

10:04 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: whats on the thread..

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: oh i see...

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: meaning if the scammer rushes the appeal

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: like keeps bumping it etc

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: sorry i cant tell lol

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: like u said facts first

10:05 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ;p

10:06 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: screenies , trade

10:06 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hmm

10:06 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: I dont know what you're talking about..

10:06 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: usually there isnt much screenies on appeal reports right?

10:06 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: I am just saying how I would approach this case looking at the evidence on the thread.

10:06 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: well your chat with him.

10:06 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: just links..

10:06 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: his trade.

10:06 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: the group chat log.

10:06 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: okay.

10:07 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: what is ur verdict?

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Well I wont make a verdict as I havent really involved myself with the parties

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: but just looking at the all the evidence you provided.

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Its all well and good that he has the impression of turning a new leaf

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: starting a new

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: 7months with a tag

10:07 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it must be punishment enough no?

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: but you need to trace it back to the original scam

10:08 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i think it is enough punishment time ;p

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: what was the intensity of the scam?

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: well the punishment aside, we need to look, is there going to be recidvism

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: is he going to reactivate

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: what was the original scam?

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: was it fake rep? was it a giftwrap scam?

10:08 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Or was it something more complex?

10:09 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: More orchestrated? Premediated?

10:09 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: fake middleman injection scam ..

10:09 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: exactly.

10:09 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Those are the scams where there is a premeditation, an inherent desire to deceive

10:09 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: like I said

10:09 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i also asked abt his "fake rep" on his steam profile :p

10:09 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: scammers intent is inherent

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: meaning the nature of the scam best reflects whether he is a RISK to the community

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: what risks do we pose to the community if we take his tag off

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: a fake repper who was caught out once?

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: a refined scammer?

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: A misrepresentation of an uncraftable hat?

10:10 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: what risks do these scammers pose in intensity?

10:11 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Yes a scam is a scam but we need to look out the extent to which the person wanted to deceive.

10:11 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and if you look at the original report.

10:11 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: a fake middleman injection scam.

10:11 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: its one of the big ones

10:11 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: the go to method of team vedetia

10:12 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: ok so we have 1. his repentance to change his ways (and restoration of the victim) 2. his highly premeditated complex scam 3. and his orchestration with an impersonation account

10:13 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: 4. and his 7 month punishment

10:14 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: how would you weigh those up? just say I give you the chance to make a verdict (mind you I have a certain separation from the people- I have seen the whole pay back items happy days thing) what would you do?

10:14 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: wow

10:15 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: give me time to absorb just got back to chat :)

10:18 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: 1. repentance to change his ways = yes, clearly shown 2. i don't think it was highly planned if it was, he wouldnt get caught 7 months ago. 3. he claims that he has links with his friend's account but no acccess, and his friend has not access steam profile for 174 days ( if i can rmb this correctly) 4. i bellieve 7 month punishment is enough atonement time compared to valve doing trade bans for 1-2 months only..

10:19 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: my verdict = i have no say

10:19 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: ur the boss

10:19 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i just love to help out thats all

10:20 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: fair enough.

10:20 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i dont like to make verdicts haha but if i were to it seems like hes done enough atonement time

10:21 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: The reality is why did he wait this long to reconcile?

10:21 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: his victim has well put the 7 month old ordeal behind them

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i just thought of that..

10:22 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and though valve hands out 1-2 month trade bans, they dont actively regulate scammer reports and on the front line per se of what we have to do. We need to stem the tide

10:22 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: that is why the tag is there.

10:22 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Valve is not the community.

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: oh.

10:23 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: based on the appeal period delay, how well can we trust the scammer's word?

10:23 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it is seen as a 7 month punishment but I personally see it as 7 months of traders being aware that this perosn has engaged in a scam and succeeded

10:24 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: good point there.

10:24 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: why should that awareness stop at 7 months?

10:24 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: we can talk about atonement for sins etc.

10:24 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: but first and foremost, sr puts the community first.

10:24 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: 10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hmm

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: just curious

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: why do u think of

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: appealling all of a sudden

10:22 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: after 7 months?

10:22 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: because I was banned from TF2Outpost

10:22 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: at first the consequences were bad

10:22 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: and I couldn't really do much cause the evidence was so strong

10:23 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: so I didn't bother, and then went along and found Outpost and used it

10:23 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: then recently I was banned from it.

10:25 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: damn ur right

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: So he didnt really care about his victim.

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: to reconcile.

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it was because he lost access to outpost.

10:25 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: yes.

10:25 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: does that mean

10:25 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: he might strike again?

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Well there is no definitive answer, but what does your gut tell you now?

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: His good intentions has an alterior motive?

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: have*

10:25 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: I think so.

10:25 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hard to tell because i can't look him in the eye

10:26 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: well process his words.

10:26 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it wasnt because he was sorry for his scam or his victim. Its because he lost access to outpost

10:27 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: and what avenues which he would have to take in order to get that access back.

10:27 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i have to find out more about the tf2t and reddit reports about this guy..

10:28 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: I looked at the reddit one, its a subsequent report of the sop one

10:28 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/ljm2k/scammed_by_a_reputable_middleman_impersonator/

10:28 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: It doesnt appear to be one off.

10:29 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: hmm

10:30 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: its two different reports?

10:30 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: yep

10:30 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: another one of him acting as a_drunk

10:30 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: is he going to return items to rkelly?

10:30 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: do you see where this paying back items becomes a farce?

10:30 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i understand.

10:31 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: its a nice gesture for the victim, but it kicks the community in the teeth

10:31 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: appeal reports are hard to decipher

10:31 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: what do you mean?

10:31 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: you do a great job at that :)

10:32 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i mean knowing the scammer's true intentions.

10:32 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: 10:31 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: are you intending to return to him?

10:32 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: I don't think I want to bother appealing anymore. When I see the two extra scams and all the communities marking me as scammer

10:32 PM - [Ϭ`] Quixotism: its going to be so tedious to slowly return the stuff

10:33 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Well if you can get him to do it, try.

10:33 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: its always nice for the victims.

10:34 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: okay :) i will !

10:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: but it appears to me this appeal is going to be dead in the water.

10:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: So do you see how to approach these "gestures"?

10:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: you need to look beyond this "items returned happy days" and look at the evidence.

10:34 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: Yes i will take note and read them and put them in my head.

10:34 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: he impersonated, orchestrated, he is a scammer.

10:35 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: no doubt in my mind.

10:35 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: His repentance equated to getting his access back to outpost.

10:35 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Thats how I see it.

10:36 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: yes i do see the light now, thanks for showing me :)

10:37 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i have a question though, how do we know its him who orchestrated and not him and his accomplice doing it together?

10:38 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: or wait is orchestrated = him and his accomplice doing it, sorry i had to look at the dictionary ;p

10:38 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: yep, thats what I mean

10:38 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: in orchestra

10:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: planned

10:39 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: it takes a certain amount of pre meditation to run a fake middleman injection scam, there would definitely be discussion as to how to conduct it before engaging in it.

10:40 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i understand, but do you think its just one person with multiple accounts or two seperate ppl ?

10:41 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Without further digging, I do not know.

10:41 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: oh* i forgot a important evidence, the guy "scary" has not logged in for more than 100 days.

10:41 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: 174 days i think.

10:41 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: anyways it doesnt matter.

10:42 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i see the truth now

10:42 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: :)

10:42 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: yeh its a non-issue

10:42 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: still im going to ask him to repay the items back to the victims

10:42 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: cool

10:42 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: hope you got something out of that

10:42 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: Do you have an intention of becoming an SR admin?

10:42 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: thanks for all the help, you're a genius!

10:43 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: yes solely for the reason to help out victims who got scammed

10:43 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: regarding the tf2t tag

10:43 PM - atom- 3000+ hrs of TF2: hmm ok

10:43 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: i will check with the tf2t admins

10:44 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: or maybe i can just search

10:44 PM - [Ultimate] Zion™ | S>BP: his name on tf2t site