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  1. [10:06:38 PM] Chewi! (Matt): So I just got to the part where Edgeworth is first mentioned in Turnabout Sisters, and it made me realize Rise from the Ashes kinda screws with some of his character development in a weird retconny way that means it also doesn't mess with his character development I guess
  2. [10:07:52 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Mainly that Rise From The Ashes makes it clear Edgeworth never did anything immoral to get a guilty verdict, or at least anything illegal
  3. [10:08:09 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Which imo makes him a little less interesting
  4. [10:09:05 PM] Anna: to be fair a lot of stuff that would be illegal to do in a court in real life is totally legal there so
  5. [10:09:17 PM] Splodey_Goat: He's still plenty interesting, just in different ways
  6. [10:09:35 PM] Chewi! (Matt): It could just be that I like the concept of Miles going from a "knight templar" to an actual crusader for justice
  7. [10:09:49 PM] Splodey_Goat: By stating absolutely that Edgeworth never did anything evil of his own accord it makes him an even bigger victim
  8. [10:09:59 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Oh, yeah he's still interesting and that was poor wording on my part
  9. [10:10:42 PM] Splodey_Goat: I guess I'm just not that upset or shaken up about it because I never had time to conceptualize Miles Edgeworth as a legitimately evil character who got retconned years later
  10. [10:11:23 PM] Splodey_Goat: I like his development as is because I think it's a little more unique to see him go from puppet of evil to an independent beacon of truth
  11. [10:12:04 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Neither have I, I guess I just notice these things and TV Tropes kinda ruined my life as well in regard to this whole Edgeworth character development thing
  12. [10:13:09 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Again, it's just kinda personal preference tbh
  13. [10:13:30 PM] Splodey_Goat: and it's alittle more interesting in-universe, too, because the legal world is so fucked up pretty much everyone ends up in that situation at one point. Most of the people who've done horrible things in Ace Attorney have done horrible things for good reasons or under false pretenses. The biggest, most shocking, and most memorable villains are the ones that are legitimately cold to their core becaue they are the exception, not the norm, and it's usually the actions of these legitimately bad people that cause the not-really-so-bad people to do bad things
  14. [10:14:23 PM] Splodey_Goat: TL;DR Ace Attorney is filled to the brim with The Atoner type characters and I like Edgeworth's story being more about him finding himself than a sense of obligation to fix things
  15. [10:15:10 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Well I see Edgeworth's Knight Templar attitude in AA1 to be Manfred's influence, since we know he's pretty much the poster boy for Amoral Attorneys
  16. [10:16:51 PM] Splodey_Goat: I guess I also see Edgeworth having a breakdown between game 1 and game to as making more sense if it's more of a "holy shit my entire life I've been fed falsehoods as a tool to meet other people's goals" and less of a "shit all that stuff I did that I knew was totally illegal is actually illegal"
  17. [10:17:32 PM] Chewi! (Matt): So Miles sees it as another way to achieve that twisted sense of justice, and everyone (unknowingly) praises him for it so it continues to validate what Manfred had taught him
  18. [10:20:27 PM] Chewi! (Matt): I don't see it as him going "wow I was a jerk, I should stop doing illegal things", rather "I'd been taught a perverted version of justice by a horrible man who secretly hated me and my father, and it was with the help of my oldest friend and rival that I was able to realize this"
  19. [10:21:21 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Again, preference
  20. [10:21:47 PM] Splodey_Goat: I'm not even disagreeing with you on this part
  21. [10:22:07 PM] Chewi! (Matt): I guess I just feel Edgeworth should have some autonomy and take responsibility for his past rather than be excused for it
  22. [10:22:23 PM] Splodey_Goat: I'm just saying I think it'd be an even bigger blow to him and have more interesting implications on his future actions the more of his life he realizes was a lie
  23. [10:22:40 PM] *** Chewi! (Matt) shrugs. He is tired and probably not explaining his side very well ***
  24. [10:23:08 PM] Splodey_Goat: Well I mean
  25. [10:23:26 PM] Splodey_Goat: Immediately after his mentor was caught for all the shit he did Edgeworth kinda disappeared for 2 years to go study in Europe
  26. [10:23:44 PM] Chewi! (Matt): I guess I have a bias towards characters who go from zealousness to an actual noble version of their morality because I find them more interesting
  27. [10:23:48 PM] Splodey_Goat: and when he came back the first thing he did was catch the leader of an international drug smuggling ring and stop a presidential assassination attempt
  28. [10:24:22 PM] Splodey_Goat: That's exactly what he did, though?
  29. [10:24:48 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Fair enough (I'm assuming you know this thanks to investigations)
  30. [10:25:57 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Well yeah he did, but your interpretation is that he wasn't really the one who willingly became a Knight Templar if you get my drift?
  31. [10:26:14 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Gagh, I'm doing a horrible job OF explaining this
  32. [10:26:38 PM] Splodey_Goat: Because he wasn't, and it's better that way
  33. [10:27:02 PM] Splodey_Goat: Because "Oh shit I was horrible now I have to make it up to everyone by being not horrible" is so
  34. [10:27:04 PM] Splodey_Goat: so blah
  35. [10:27:21 PM] Splodey_Goat: It's done to death, and I don't want Edgeworth to just be mopey about shit he's done the rest of his life.
  36. [10:27:34 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Okay that's definitely subjective
  37. [10:28:07 PM] Chewi! (Matt): He isn't mopey though? He accepts it and becomes a better person
  38. [10:28:27 PM] Splodey_Goat: He accepts it and becomes a better person because he realizes it's not his fault
  39. [10:29:01 PM] Splodey_Goat: His actions after Manfred is arrested aren't him trying to make up for being the "demon prosecutor" it's because he's coming into his own right, developing his own philosophies, and becoming genuinely altruistic
  40. [10:29:47 PM] Chewi! (Matt): You seem to be assuming he can't do both, and that either option is mutually exclusive
  41. [10:30:38 PM] Chewi! (Matt): My preference is that in order to make up for his past he becomes his own person and stuff
  42. [10:31:10 PM] Splodey_Goat: They're not necessarily mutually exclusive, but I do feel like if it were a combination of both than the presence of him trying to redeem himself would lessen him becoming a genuinely good person
  43. [10:32:02 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Whose to say trying to redeem yourself lessens the idea that you'll be a good person because of it?
  44. [10:32:17 PM] Chewi! (Matt): (...and here we go into philosophy)
  45. [10:32:57 PM] Splodey_Goat: Because if you're doing it to feel better about something you did in the past you've just made it inherently about you
  46. [10:33:42 PM | Edited 10:33:44 PM] Splodey_Goat: If Edgeworth is helping Lauren Paups because he wants to make up for falsely imprisoning someone else that means he's not doing it exclusively on the principal that arresting an innocent person is wrong
  47. [10:34:45 PM] Splodey_Goat: I gotta get ready for work, not sure when I'll be back
  48. [10:35:05 PM] Chewi! (Matt): But I'm saying he's aware what he did was wrong and wants to right it... actually you know what, it's obvious that you're far more knowledgeable about this so I'm just gonna shut up about it
  49. [10:45:06 PM] Zarb?: I unfollowed this person on twitter, and it still says we both follow each other.
  50. [10:47:44 PM] Zarb?: At work, I found this box cutter on a shelf. It wasn't one we carried, and it wasn't one the employees use. So a customer must have left it there.
  51. [10:48:32 PM] Zarb?: Curiously enough, the same day I find this, I also found a ton of products packaging that had been cut into and was missing the contents. Curious. Veeeerrry curious...
  52. [10:50:08 PM] Chewi! (Matt): Thieves!
  53. [10:52:33 PM] Zarb?: I'm gonna laugh if someone comes back for it.
  54. [10:52:55 PM] Proto: [10:51 PM] Proto:
  55.  
  56. <<< i feel defeated, and that i might as well look at the story of robobot...
  57. [10:53:34 PM] Chewi! (Matt): ono
  58. [10:53:57 PM] Proto: there are spoilers everywhere
  59. [10:55:52 PM] Chewi! (Matt): You can hold out Proto I know you can do it
  60. [10:56:02 PM] Zarb?: Stay strong.
  61. [10:56:10 PM] Zarb?: Don't give in to temptations.
  62. [10:56:15 PM] Proto: guys
  63. [10:56:21 PM] Proto: that is a month and ten days
  64. [10:56:26 PM] Proto: I cannot physically wait that long
  65. [10:57:05 PM] Chewi! (Matt): If you can wait for Christmas you can wait for Robobot
  66. [10:58:39 PM] Proto: WHO SAYS I CAN WAIT FOR CHRISTMAS?! OAO
  67. [11:02:44 PM] Chewi! (Matt): If anyone needs me I'll be asleep. (So I hope nobody is going to need me)
  68. [11:03:10 PM] Zarb?: i have to go to sleep too
  69. [11:03:23 PM] ROBIN: School is out so time is meaningless
  70. [11:03:28 PM] Zarb?: 9 hour opening shift tomorrow, after working a closing shift today
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