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Posted by add1sun on Thu 18 Jun 19:48
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  1. Jun 16 13:07:02 <add1sun>       so let's do the "official" meeting thing
  2. Jun 16 13:07:11 <add1sun>       there isn't really much of an agenda
  3. Jun 16 13:07:27 <add1sun>       this is mostly to give everyone an opportunity
  4. Jun 16 13:07:33 <add1sun>       to talk about and ask questions re: http://drupal.org/node/488070
  5. Jun 16 13:07:37 <Druplicon>     http://drupal.org/node/488070 => Help us on the road to better Drupal documentation => 2 IRC mentions
  6. Jun 16 13:08:04 <add1sun>       i don't know how many people actually downloaded the PDF and read the whle thing
  7. Jun 16 13:08:16 <add1sun>       since the post is just a really short summary
  8. Jun 16 13:08:25 <add1sun>       but if you have questions, concerns or ideas
  9. Jun 16 13:08:32 <add1sun>       feel free to just toss it out
  10. Jun 16 13:08:35 <esmerel>       grf, I kept the email as unmarked but I just have not had time to read the thing.
  11. Jun 16 13:09:10 <jhodgdon>      I actually read it, thought it was a great roadmap
  12. Jun 16 13:09:20 <jhodgdon>      (can't say I read the complete appendices)
  13. Jun 16 13:09:25 <add1sun>       haha, no doubt
  14. Jun 16 13:09:44 <jhodgdon>      For me, the big black hole (and most important part) is Content Architecture
  15. Jun 16 13:09:45 <add1sun>       the mindmap is a simpler overview to the appendices
  16. Jun 16 13:09:52 <jhodgdon>      it's really hard to find stuff in the documentation
  17. Jun 16 13:09:55 *       esmerel cracks it open
  18. Jun 16 13:10:05 <add1sun>       indeed, which is why it is our #1 priority
  19. Jun 16 13:10:09 <jhodgdon>      yes
  20. Jun 16 13:10:20 *       esmerel agrees with jhodgdon to a degree - stuff is kinda everywhere.
  21. Jun 16 13:10:20 <add1sun>       becca scollan and i are working on what she'll need
  22. Jun 16 13:10:26 <jhodgdon>      Searching doesn't help either.
  23. Jun 16 13:10:33 <add1sun>       we hope to get folks interviewing each other in the next two weeks or so
  24. Jun 16 13:10:52 <add1sun>       basically, becca is gathering data
  25. Jun 16 13:10:54 <jhodgdon>      I thought that idea was quite interesting. Hopefully there will be a large variety of audiences.
  26. Jun 16 13:11:04 <add1sun>       and has tasks we can do to help her with that
  27. Jun 16 13:11:09 <jhodgdon>      if you have scripts, our seattle Drupal USer Group meeting is Thursday; otherwise, not for another month
  28. Jun 16 13:11:21 <add1sun>       then she'll present an "idealized" arch
  29. Jun 16 13:11:32 <add1sun>       and we can run it through its paces with cardsorts, etc
  30. Jun 16 13:11:41 <add1sun>       until we get a new arch that'll work for us
  31. Jun 16 13:12:03 *       dereine (i=dereine@dvc.tddp.de) has joined #drupal-docs
  32. Jun 16 13:12:09 <add1sun>       i was also at a great conf this weekend
  33. Jun 16 13:12:17 <add1sun>       that had diff OS projects
  34. Jun 16 13:12:33 <jhodgdon>      Wondering if we need to work on titles of handbook pages too, making sure they are all clearer about what's on the page and what it relates to
  35. Jun 16 13:12:40 <add1sun>       and there was a lot of talk about IA, doc design, using dita for single source, etc
  36. Jun 16 13:12:58 <darthsteven>   add1sun: We discussed docs at drupalcampuk over the weekend, and one thing that cam up was that companies would spend much more time writing the docs if the writers got recognition, and we thought it would be a really good idea if the book pages had something similar to the project pages' committers block, showing who contributed to that doc page. There's nothing that tells you how credible the page is.
  37. Jun 16 13:13:17 <Margaux>       sorry if this is an elementary question, but can someone explain the "arch" idea?
  38. Jun 16 13:13:24 <add1sun>       darthsteven, yep and item #2 on the priority list is recognition/reward
  39. Jun 16 13:13:26 <darthsteven>   Sorry, I have to dash, hence the mega long message, and interruption
  40. Jun 16 13:13:34 <LeeHunter>     Everything sounds good. My only concern is that we seem to be oriented to inventing documentation architecture from scratch. I'm hoping that this process will keep us aligned with the rest of the industry.
  41. Jun 16 13:13:36 <add1sun>       darthsteven, np :)
  42. Jun 16 13:13:37 <jhodgdon>      darthsteven: the "revisions" tab does tell you who worke don it
  43. Jun 16 13:14:06 <darthsteven>   jhodgdon: it's on a tab though, not 'right there' on a block, on the same page
  44. Jun 16 13:14:19 <add1sun>       LeeHunter, well becca is in a better position to discuss that really
  45. Jun 16 13:14:19 <jhodgdon>      agreed. but the revisions list is often a page or two long
  46. Jun 16 13:14:34 <jhodgdon>      and it's hard to tell who did what (a revision could be a typo fix or a major overhaul)
  47. Jun 16 13:14:40 <LeeHunter>     In other words, we should be consistent with the general standards and practices of software documentation. I'd hate to see us create something quirky.
  48. Jun 16 13:14:44 <add1sun>       darthsteven, def make sure you guys do our surveys
  49. Jun 16 13:14:54 <add1sun>       and get involved in the recognition project then
  50. Jun 16 13:15:00 <darthsteven>   add1sun: Will do!
  51. Jun 16 13:15:01 <add1sun>       LeeHunter, agreed
  52. Jun 16 13:15:16 <Margaux>       LeeHunter, second.
  53. Jun 16 13:15:16 <add1sun>       and i think that we will try to standardize as much as possible
  54. Jun 16 13:15:19 <darthsteven>   have a good meeting, guessing minutes will appear somewhere?
  55. Jun 16 13:15:29 <add1sun>       darthsteven, yep, on the g.d.o and list
  56. Jun 16 13:15:33 <darthsteven>   cool
  57. Jun 16 13:15:36 *       darthsteven (n=steven@79-73-187-159.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has left #drupal-docs
  58. Jun 16 13:15:53 <add1sun>       between becca and the new wosdocs group
  59. Jun 16 13:16:09 <add1sun>       i think we are well positioned to actually do this "right"
  60. Jun 16 13:16:15 <jhodgdon>      Maybe the "revisions block" could list each contributor by how many lines changed (not sure how easy this would be to calculate with diff module or something similar)
  61. Jun 16 13:16:29 <jhodgdon>      ?wosdocs group?
  62. Jun 16 13:16:35 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, there are a *ton* of way to approach it
  63. Jun 16 13:16:43 <add1sun>       oh right one sec
  64. Jun 16 13:16:59 <add1sun>       so this weekend i was at a conf on writing os
  65. Jun 16 13:16:59 <add1sun>       http://writingopensource.com/
  66. Jun 16 13:17:07 *       esmerel nods at add1sun - there's enough things that need doing that we can really redo things the way they should be done:)
  67. Jun 16 13:17:16 <add1sun>       we started a general community for OS doc writers
  68. Jun 16 13:17:34 *       LeeHunter is running to another meeting happy that he contributed his 1.8 cents C$
  69. Jun 16 13:17:43 <add1sun>       LeeHunter, thanks!
  70. Jun 16 13:17:44 *       LeeHunter has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  71. Jun 16 13:17:48 <dougvann>      add1sun I'm throwing the 3rd Indiana Drupal HackFest next Saturday. We will be making time for docs! I've been going through the doc-mail-list looking for any indication of a strong need. Can u mention some to me now OR post it on our event http://groups.drupal.org/node/22783 ?
  72. Jun 16 13:17:49 <Druplicon>     http://groups.drupal.org/node/22783 => 3rd Indy Drupal HackFest => 1 IRC mention
  73. Jun 16 13:18:23 <add1sun>       dougvann, right now mostly we need regualr handbook maintenance tasks
  74. Jun 16 13:18:24 *       christefano (n=christef@pool-71-105-72-96.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  75. Jun 16 13:18:28 <add1sun>       but i will comment on that
  76. Jun 16 13:18:38 <add1sun>       so back to Margaux question
  77. Jun 16 13:18:42 <dougvann>      u got it! THNX.
  78. Jun 16 13:19:04 <jhodgdon>      dougvann: if you have coder types that are interested in doc, they can also check the Drupal component "documentation" issue queue
  79. Jun 16 13:19:13 <add1sun>       the idea behind "arch" is that we are going to rethink/redo/whatever the way our documentation is porganized
  80. Jun 16 13:19:28 <add1sun>       so this means structure as well as tagging/categorization
  81. Jun 16 13:19:42 <add1sun>       and we will not just do "outlines"
  82. Jun 16 13:19:47 <dougvann>      good call jhodgdon We'll def have some coder types.
  83. Jun 16 13:19:50 *       mlsamuelson has quit ()
  84. Jun 16 13:19:52 <add1sun>       but also look at structuring the info within a page itself too
  85. Jun 16 13:20:17 <add1sun>       so like if you are writing a how to
  86. Jun 16 13:20:21 <add1sun>       what needs to be there
  87. Jun 16 13:20:29 <add1sun>       think of things like a template
  88. Jun 16 13:20:34 <add1sun>       for how to write a good page
  89. Jun 16 13:20:55 <add1sun>       so basically becca is reviewing what we have, the people who use it
  90. Jun 16 13:20:58 <add1sun>       etc
  91. Jun 16 13:21:24 <add1sun>       and then work from standards in the field as well as the specifics of what our info is
  92. Jun 16 13:21:33 <add1sun>       and how we use it (meaning lots of diff kinds of people)
  93. Jun 16 13:21:39 <jhodgdon>      add1sun: regarding OS doc community: does that just mean making an account on http://writingopensource.com/ ?
  94. Jun 16 13:21:40 <add1sun>       and then come up with a framework
  95. Jun 16 13:21:47 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, yeppers
  96. Jun 16 13:21:57 <add1sun>       anyone that would like to join the site is free to
  97. Jun 16 13:22:09 <add1sun>       and take part in discussions etc
  98. Jun 16 13:22:20 *       dunkoh (n=dunkoh@rrcs-74-219-209-194.central.biz.rr.com) has joined #drupal-docs
  99. Jun 16 13:22:31 <jhodgdon>      add1sun: templates for pages should be different types - not all pages are created equal
  100. Jun 16 13:22:38 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, absolutely!
  101. Jun 16 13:22:48 <add1sun>       we can't have just one kind
  102. Jun 16 13:22:57 <jhodgdon>      Could we have different content types that would promote the different templates?
  103. Jun 16 13:23:02 <add1sun>       this process will identify what kinds we need
  104. Jun 16 13:23:04 <add1sun>       etc
  105. Jun 16 13:23:06 <esmerel>       tutorials
  106. Jun 16 13:23:17 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, i dare say that is how we'll implement it yes
  107. Jun 16 13:23:17 <esmerel>       vs "explanations"
  108. Jun 16 13:23:29 <jhodgdon>      There are different types of tutorials too: site setup, coding, etc.
  109. Jun 16 13:23:32 *       esmerel randomlyh throws out words :D
  110. Jun 16 13:23:35 <add1sun>       but first we need the framework
  111. Jun 16 13:23:38 <esmerel>       right
  112. Jun 16 13:23:41 <jhodgdon>      agreed
  113. Jun 16 13:23:42 <add1sun>       then we look at tech implementations
  114. Jun 16 13:23:47 <Margaux>       gotcha.
  115. Jun 16 13:23:47 <add1sun>       and mapping our existing content to it
  116. Jun 16 13:23:59 <jhodgdon>      you mean figure out what it needs to do first, before thinking about how to do it? What a concept! :)
  117. Jun 16 13:24:02 *       arianek (n=arianek@S0106001b63f4b826.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  118. Jun 16 13:24:04 <add1sun>       hahaha
  119. Jun 16 13:24:06 <add1sun>       crazy talk!
  120. Jun 16 13:24:13 <philip_>       you guys are designing a new TOC/layout for the drupal docs?
  121. Jun 16 13:24:15 <beccascollan>  (hello everyone, listening in but in the midst of a research study today!)
  122. Jun 16 13:24:21 <add1sun>       philip_, indeed. and more
  123. Jun 16 13:24:39 <add1sun>       beccascollan, hallloo!
  124. Jun 16 13:24:48 <Senpai>        Hello all. (I just got into the office. Will read backscroll)
  125. Jun 16 13:24:58 <add1sun>       beccascollan, i hope i am explaining things ok
  126. Jun 16 13:25:03 <jhodgdon>      philip_ : http://drupal.org/node/488070
  127. Jun 16 13:25:05 <Druplicon>     http://drupal.org/node/488070 => Help us on the road to better Drupal documentation => 3 IRC mentions
  128. Jun 16 13:25:06 *       add1sun really isn't an expert in this stuff
  129. Jun 16 13:25:12 <add1sun>       which is why i'm getting people to help ;)
  130. Jun 16 13:25:14 <jhodgdon>      (she is now)
  131. Jun 16 13:25:46 <JohnAlbin>     add1sun: the thing I didn't understand in the PDFs was all the tables. It seemed like there was some sort of tech writer jargon going on there.
  132. Jun 16 13:26:04 <add1sun>       JohnAlbin, yeah the tables were bascially a big ass brain dump from the sprint
  133. Jun 16 13:26:10 <philip_>       i'm mostly here to steal ideas for the php.net docs :)
  134. Jun 16 13:26:22 <add1sun>       philip_, cool!
  135. Jun 16 13:26:31 <add1sun>       philip_, you should def join wosdocs then
  136. Jun 16 13:26:40 <add1sun>       philip_, http://writingopensource.com/
  137. Jun 16 13:26:45 <philip_>       i did earlier, and posted a couple times to the forum
  138. Jun 16 13:26:51 <add1sun>       philip_, ah sweet
  139. Jun 16 13:27:03 <jhodgdon>      philip_: Did you see earlier in this discussion that we're stealing ideas from php.net too? Isn't FOSS wonderful?
  140. Jun 16 13:27:09 *       add1sun still needs to do work on that site :/
  141. Jun 16 13:27:15 <philip_>       stealing ideas is great
  142. Jun 16 13:27:18 *       mroswell (i=45fbdecc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-76597c0985ca8033) has joined #drupal-docs
  143. Jun 16 13:27:34 <add1sun>       JohnAlbin, so yeah the tables are basically some initial ideas we had about tasks that we'd need to do
  144. Jun 16 13:27:37 <philip_>       although ideas are a dime a dozen without implementation :)
  145. Jun 16 13:27:38 <add1sun>       to accomplish our goals
  146. Jun 16 13:27:49 <add1sun>       they are more of a dump reference as we move forward
  147. Jun 16 13:28:13 <add1sun>       and reviewing/fleshing out those task lists
  148. Jun 16 13:28:14 <JohnAlbin>     add1sun: all the tables in the PDFs apaendix were empty except for row and column headings.
  149. Jun 16 13:28:23 <add1sun>       is a job as we move forward
  150. Jun 16 13:28:33 <add1sun>       JohnAlbin, i know ;)
  151. Jun 16 13:28:40 <add1sun>       we just dumped the ideas
  152. Jun 16 13:28:47 <add1sun>       but didn't get to fill out how they happen ;)
  153. Jun 16 13:29:20 <add1sun>       the idea is that is someone wants to tackle x goal
  154. Jun 16 13:29:30 <add1sun>       they can use that template of tasks for a starting place
  155. Jun 16 13:29:36 <add1sun>       review what's there
  156. Jun 16 13:29:40 <add1sun>       accept/reject/refine
  157. Jun 16 13:29:45 <add1sun>       and fill out the detials more
  158. Jun 16 13:29:59 <add1sun>       so that we can see what *work8 needs to be done in what order
  159. Jun 16 13:30:14 <add1sun>       but at the sprint we didn't have time or brain cells
  160. Jun 16 13:30:18 <add1sun>       for that level of detail
  161. Jun 16 13:30:34 <add1sun>       so the structure for what needs to be fille dout was put in
  162. Jun 16 13:30:40 <add1sun>       but not actually completed
  163. Jun 16 13:31:14 <mroswell>      Excuse me for coming in late... what PDF are you referring to?
  164. Jun 16 13:31:26 <JohnAlbin>     ah, gotcha. Its only the TOC in the appendix that has useful info to read. The rest is worksheets for sprints to fill  out. yeah, that could maybe be explained better inside the doc itself. :-) I felt like I was majorly missing things.
  165. Jun 16 13:31:28 <add1sun>       App A nad B of http://drupal.org/node/488070
  166. Jun 16 13:31:28 <JohnAlbin>     mroswell: http://drupal.org/node/488070
  167. Jun 16 13:31:30 <Druplicon>     http://drupal.org/node/488070 => Help us on the road to better Drupal documentation => 4 IRC mentions
  168. Jun 16 13:31:31 <Druplicon>     http://drupal.org/node/488070 => Help us on the road to better Drupal documentation => 5 IRC mentions
  169. Jun 16 13:31:34 <add1sun>       heh
  170. Jun 16 13:31:45 <philip_>       changing the topic during meetings can be helpful
  171. Jun 16 13:31:50 <add1sun>       JohnAlbin, gotcha, yeah you are right
  172. Jun 16 13:32:25 <add1sun>       JohnAlbin, i had big plans for what i'd send out to the community
  173. Jun 16 13:32:35 <add1sun>       but it took too long for the stuff i did do :/
  174. Jun 16 13:32:40 <add1sun>       so it is very rough
  175. Jun 16 13:32:53 <add1sun>       but definitely something we should update
  176. Jun 16 13:33:05 <JohnAlbin>     add1sun: no worries. Now I understand. Plus the mindmap is very well done, I think.
  177. Jun 16 13:33:18 <add1sun>       i basically feel like i posted vomit without much explanation
  178. Jun 16 13:33:45 <add1sun>       which was one reason i wanted this meeting :)
  179. Jun 16 13:33:49 <esmerel>       if people don't get it, they'll ask
  180. Jun 16 13:33:53 <add1sun>       yah
  181. Jun 16 13:34:04 <add1sun>       and i figure the minutes from this will be good for lots of people
  182. Jun 16 13:34:15 <esmerel>       right
  183. Jun 16 13:34:54 <add1sun>       anyone else have questions or thoughts?
  184. Jun 16 13:35:05 <add1sun>       don't feel like anything you are wondering is stupid
  185. Jun 16 13:35:06 *       bekasu (n=bekasu@32.178.147.236) has joined #drupal-docs
  186. Jun 16 13:35:08 <philip_>       you plan to still use docbook?
  187. Jun 16 13:35:10 <add1sun>       because this is new to all of us
  188. Jun 16 13:35:15 <add1sun>       well, at least to me it is
  189. Jun 16 13:35:22 <add1sun>       philip_, we don't use docbook now
  190. Jun 16 13:35:30 <add1sun>       and most likely will not
  191. Jun 16 13:35:35 <philip_>       i thought it was a mix
  192. Jun 16 13:35:36 <esmerel>       not yet, I'm still trying to read, and 95% of my documentation brain is taken up by our book :/
  193. Jun 16 13:35:44 <add1sun>       if anything 9and this is very unknown) we will move to DITA
  194. Jun 16 13:36:00 <add1sun>       philip_, no, there is no docbook in drupal docs
  195. Jun 16 13:36:06 <add1sun>       we use HTML
  196. Jun 16 13:36:16 <add1sun>       or PHP strings :p
  197. Jun 16 13:36:27 <bekasu>        or prayer
  198. Jun 16 13:36:31 <add1sun>       hahaha
  199. Jun 16 13:37:06 <philip_>       interesting, so you pray for a chm to build?
  200. Jun 16 13:37:09 <add1sun>       philip_, our docs compared to many other projects is extremely loosy goosey
  201. Jun 16 13:37:33 <philip_>       i remember liking the ability to edit them online from the pages themselves
  202. Jun 16 13:37:41 <add1sun>       yep
  203. Jun 16 13:37:42 <bekasu>        sometimes rather than prayer, i just sit in awe and amazement
  204. Jun 16 13:37:59 <add1sun>       philip_, this weekend we had a lot of talk about making Drupal a front end for DITA
  205. Jun 16 13:38:12 <add1sun>       so that you can write and organize in Drupal
  206. Jun 16 13:38:17 <add1sun>       but have a DITA back end
  207. Jun 16 13:38:27 <add1sun>       for structured data
  208. Jun 16 13:38:34 <add1sun>       and various output
  209. Jun 16 13:38:51 <add1sun>       but we aren't at that stage quite yet :)
  210. Jun 16 13:38:58 <boris2>        dita = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Information_Typing_Architecture ?
  211. Jun 16 13:39:00 <add1sun>       so we'll see in a few months where things are
  212. Jun 16 13:39:07 <add1sun>       yes, sorry
  213. Jun 16 13:39:22 <add1sun>       i am not familiar enugh to really get into it
  214. Jun 16 13:39:31 <add1sun>       and it isn't something we can implement any time soon
  215. Jun 16 13:39:42 <add1sun>       but i just mention it is a possibility
  216. Jun 16 13:39:42 <MGParisi>      add1sun: I think we missed something in the documentation... We need a better way to resolve issues.  Define the process for moving, deleting and modifing documents, and devise a way for accountability (for instance, subscribe to book pages to watch their progress).    I find allot of issues become dead ends because no one agrees, its not the lack of will to take action that hinders some,...
  217. Jun 16 13:39:44 <MGParisi>      ...but the complete inability to take action...
  218. Jun 16 13:39:49 *       yoroy (n=yoroy@f223032.upc-f.chello.nl) has joined #drupal-docs
  219. Jun 16 13:40:22 <add1sun>       MGParisi, yes community processes is on the list of things to address
  220. Jun 16 13:40:29 <add1sun>       but it just isn't at the top right now
  221. Jun 16 13:40:33 <add1sun>       i should also mention
  222. Jun 16 13:40:38 <philip_>       one thing about foss that drives me nuts is how there are a zillion ways to do everything... like handle documentation (and their translations)
  223. Jun 16 13:40:46 <add1sun>       that just because something isn't the "top 2" priority items
  224. Jun 16 13:40:52 <add1sun>       doesn't mean people shouldn't work on them
  225. Jun 16 13:41:07 <add1sun>       feel free to look at other goals and tasks
  226. Jun 16 13:41:17 <add1sun>       and begin building working groups around them
  227. Jun 16 13:41:33 <add1sun>       everyone can start a new "work area" kind of page ni the community initiatives
  228. Jun 16 13:41:45 <esmerel>       oh, cool, add1sun was reading my mind. :)
  229. Jun 16 13:41:47 <add1sun>       http://drupal.org/community-initiatives/documentation/roadmap
  230. Jun 16 13:41:59 <bekasu>        addie - have you heard back on the sanitized d.o. database dump?
  231. Jun 16 13:42:07 <add1sun>       so if there is an area of the mindmap PDF as it were
  232. Jun 16 13:42:08 <jhodgdon>      Having also been involved in the WordPress doc team, I have to say Drupal is no worse off as far as processes, organization, etc. WP uses Mediawiki for its handbook.
  233. Jun 16 13:42:12 <add1sun>       that you want to tackle
  234. Jun 16 13:42:20 <add1sun>       start talking on the mailing list
  235. Jun 16 13:42:31 <add1sun>       and get a few folks interested and start in on it
  236. Jun 16 13:42:38 <add1sun>       bekasu, not yet
  237. Jun 16 13:42:41 <bekasu>        thx
  238. Jun 16 13:43:06 *       esmerel was curious about basically creating tasks for ourselves and where we should stick them. I'm not sure that really belongs in the issue queue kinda thing.
  239. Jun 16 13:43:09 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, ha, one of the nice things about woscon
  240. Jun 16 13:43:13 <jhodgdon>      (if that makes you feel any better as far as saying "drupal is bad off compared to other projects)
  241. Jun 16 13:43:22 <add1sun>       was that all OS projects  docs are a mess :p
  242. Jun 16 13:43:43 <jhodgdon>      yeah, documentation in general for software is a mess.
  243. Jun 16 13:43:47 <jhodgdon>      it's not just FOSS
  244. Jun 16 13:44:00 <add1sun>       which is why we want to get togather, help each other and help create best practices, etc
  245. Jun 16 13:44:05 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, true dat
  246. Jun 16 13:44:09 <jhodgdon>      (having worked in commercial software dev I can say that with some authority)
  247. Jun 16 13:44:35 <add1sun>       esmerel, well an actionable item should be in the issue queue
  248. Jun 16 13:44:37 <add1sun>       and tagged
  249. Jun 16 13:44:44 <add1sun>       with whatever term makes sense
  250. Jun 16 13:44:52 <add1sun>       the CI landing pages
  251. Jun 16 13:44:57 <add1sun>       can just be a way to say
  252. Jun 16 13:45:09 <add1sun>       "hey want to help with X? here is what we are focusing on"
  253. Jun 16 13:45:10 <jhodgdon>      ( CI = community initiatives)
  254. Jun 16 13:45:12 <add1sun>       and point to issues
  255. Jun 16 13:45:17 <esmerel>       add1sun: ok that's fair. I had a couple of things like "review all teh views and panels doc page comments" and "maybe create a basic themer's guide"
  256. Jun 16 13:45:23 <add1sun>       and link to important issue tags, etc
  257. Jun 16 13:45:26 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, yes
  258. Jun 16 13:45:33 <jhodgdon>      esmerel : those two sound like issues
  259. Jun 16 13:45:36 <add1sun>       yes
  260. Jun 16 13:45:38 <add1sun>       issues
  261. Jun 16 13:45:42 <jhodgdon>      very specific
  262. Jun 16 13:45:50 <esmerel>       ok :D
  263. Jun 16 13:46:00 <jhodgdon>      as opposed to "work on better ways to recognize doc contributors"
  264. Jun 16 13:46:06 <add1sun>       the idea behind a landing page in CI
  265. Jun 16 13:46:09 <jhodgdon>      which is more of a CI
  266. Jun 16 13:46:12 <jhodgdon>      right?
  267. Jun 16 13:46:12 <add1sun>       is that new people that want o help in a area
  268. Jun 16 13:46:17 <esmerel>       right-o
  269. Jun 16 13:46:19 <add1sun>       can get a quick overview of the issues
  270. Jun 16 13:46:24 <add1sun>       without sifting through the queue
  271. Jun 16 13:46:34 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, righto
  272. Jun 16 13:46:37 <jhodgdon>      add1sun: you need an IRC client that lets you type mulit-line
  273. Jun 16 13:46:42 <add1sun>       hehe
  274. Jun 16 13:46:43 <jhodgdon>      :)
  275. Jun 16 13:46:48 <jhodgdon>      Pidgin
  276. Jun 16 13:46:48 <add1sun>       sorry
  277. Jun 16 13:46:48 <esmerel>       yeah, sifting throught he queue is kind of disheartening :)
  278. Jun 16 13:46:51 <jhodgdon>      or maybe it's settings
  279. Jun 16 13:46:51 <add1sun>       i do that habit
  280. Jun 16 13:46:57 <add1sun>       my client allows it
  281. Jun 16 13:47:06 <add1sun>       i just don't do it ;)
  282. Jun 16 13:47:10 <add1sun>       like that ^^ :p
  283. Jun 16 13:47:17 <jhodgdon>      :)
  284. Jun 16 13:47:29 <philip_>       foss can also be stubborn, for example, i don't see php.net moving away from docbook especially after spending so much time on our newish build tools
  285. Jun 16 13:47:46 <add1sun>       philip_, yeah the community aspect of things is huge
  286. Jun 16 13:47:57 <add1sun>       i see docs as two *equal* things
  287. Jun 16 13:48:01 <add1sun>       the docs and the people
  288. Jun 16 13:48:16 <add1sun>       and the people are often harder to work with  ;)
  289. Jun 16 13:48:25 <esmerel>       NU UH
  290. Jun 16 13:48:29 <esmerel>       AM NOT AM NOT
  291. Jun 16 13:48:33 <add1sun>       it was enlightening to talk to other projects
  292. Jun 16 13:48:51 <add1sun>       and see that Drupal is actually well positioned in that respect
  293. Jun 16 13:48:54 *       davidstrauss has quit ()
  294. Jun 16 13:48:59 <esmerel>       I bet:)
  295. Jun 16 13:49:06 <philip_>       i dove into fedora docs and realized they are as chaotic as us... so that felt (don't tell anyone i said this) nice
  296. Jun 16 13:49:06 <add1sun>       some other projects have ... interesting community mechanisms in place
  297. Jun 16 13:49:24 *       add1sun tweaks esmerel ear
  298. Jun 16 13:49:36 <add1sun>       philip_, :)
  299. Jun 16 13:49:41 <esmerel>       there are a lot of drupal devs who actually agree that docs are important, they just can't brain themselves up to write it, but they're good about providing input on stuff other people write.
  300. Jun 16 13:49:46 <esmerel>       ow ow
  301. Jun 16 13:50:08 <philip_>       how do you manage translations?
  302. Jun 16 13:50:16 <philip_>       seems like a huge topic in itself
  303. Jun 16 13:50:22 <add1sun>       philip_, well for the handbook pages, we don't
  304. Jun 16 13:50:36 <add1sun>       only coded docs are
  305. Jun 16 13:50:42 <philip_>       i've been working on converting our translation docbook to po files
  306. Jun 16 13:50:49 <add1sun>       they can be exported to po
  307. Jun 16 13:50:54 <MGParisi>      add1sun: I must say that one of the top priorities, and a way to get people to be more involved, is a notification system for doc changes.  It increases accountability, and an email to a person who hasn't contributed in some time saying that there doc has changed might get them to jump back into documentation.  I write documents, but after done with them, its very hard (if not impossible) to...
  308. Jun 16 13:50:54 <philip_>       cool
  309. Jun 16 13:50:54 <add1sun>       yah
  310. Jun 16 13:50:55 <MGParisi>      ...manually monitor hundreds of documents through there revision cycle.
  311. Jun 16 13:51:02 <add1sun>       philip_, i have been traveling a lot
  312. Jun 16 13:51:13 <add1sun>       and talking to lots of diff drupal non-english communities
  313. Jun 16 13:51:21 <philip_>       nice
  314. Jun 16 13:51:23 <add1sun>       and i18n is a *whole* nother kettle of fish
  315. Jun 16 13:51:34 <add1sun>       so it isnot explicitly in our roadmap
  316. Jun 16 13:51:47 <add1sun>       since it is really a huge parallel project in many respects
  317. Jun 16 13:51:50 <philip_>       it should be a major part of the design, i think
  318. Jun 16 13:52:09 <add1sun>       because frankly many i18n comms do not want to translate d.o docs
  319. Jun 16 13:52:15 <add1sun>       they want to write their own
  320. Jun 16 13:52:23 <add1sun>       so it becomes an organizational issue
  321. Jun 16 13:52:24 <jhodgdon>      MGParisi: Sounds like a community initiaitve for you. :)
  322. Jun 16 13:52:26 <philip_>       maybe translating currently is a pita?
  323. Jun 16 13:52:29 <add1sun>       and only partly technical
  324. Jun 16 13:52:37 <Margaux>       it almost seems like trying to keep up with things is enough of a challenge in and of itself, as there are so many modules and new versions coming out all the time...
  325. Jun 16 13:52:59 <boris2>        i cant see having 1-on-1 translations of d.o handbooks in different languages.
  326. Jun 16 13:52:59 <Margaux>       i have been watching a lot of conversation in the Latin American community about skipping over the whole doc process in general, and going straight to videos and podcasts in Spanish
  327. Jun 16 13:53:00 <add1sun>       philip_, well again it isn';t the tech aspect, it is the community management aspect
  328. Jun 16 13:53:03 <jhodgdon>      Consider how Wikipedia does translations: there are automatic links to translations of pages on each page
  329. Jun 16 13:53:09 <philip_>       translations writing their own versions of docs? that seems crazy
  330. Jun 16 13:53:13 <Margaux>       which I have to admit has merit, IMO, because it's so much quicker to create.
  331. Jun 16 13:53:24 <jhodgdon>      I think the Drupal internationalization module basically does that
  332. Jun 16 13:53:29 <add1sun>       philip_, i know it sdounds crazy
  333. Jun 16 13:53:40 <philip_>       is goba still around drupal?
  334. Jun 16 13:53:44 <Margaux>       however, it's much more proprietary for whoever creates it, as opposed to the more traditional doc approach that can have many contributors over a long period of time.
  335. Jun 16 13:53:49 <jhodgdon>      boris2: who not having one to one translations?
  336. Jun 16 13:53:49 <add1sun>       but seriously from talking to lots of people - it isn't crazy tot he people who need to do it and use it
  337. Jun 16 13:53:56 <esmerel>       goba's still the d6 maintainer, so asfar as I know he is
  338. Jun 16 13:53:59 <add1sun>       philip_, he is indeed
  339. Jun 16 13:54:00 <add1sun>       :)
  340. Jun 16 13:54:11 <philip_>       he was interested in translations iirc, after leaving php.net docs (but i digress)
  341. Jun 16 13:54:26 <add1sun>       philip_, yes, he made D6 much better for i18n
  342. Jun 16 13:54:29 <bekasu>        okay - let me ask a  naive question on another topic
  343. Jun 16 13:54:34 <boris2>        having all d.o handbook both in english and in dutch for example. seems crazy idea.
  344. Jun 16 13:54:34 <philip_>       well, writingopensource.com is much needed and thanks to everyone who made it happen
  345. Jun 16 13:54:35 <add1sun>       and continues to work on l10n tools
  346. Jun 16 13:54:37 <jhodgdon>      boris2: should have been "why" not one to one
  347. Jun 16 13:54:46 <add1sun>       boris2, indeed
  348. Jun 16 13:54:48 <Margaux>       my understanding is that Internationalization does not create translations, it just lets you define a relationship between two nodes as (for example) the English and Spanish versions of the same item.
  349. Jun 16 13:54:55 <bekasu>        i noticed we have targeted our doc roadmap towards the online docs that exist
  350. Jun 16 13:54:59 <bekasu>        and to communication
  351. Jun 16 13:55:05 <add1sun>       Margaux, yes
  352. Jun 16 13:55:16 <jhodgdon>      boris2 may not need complete Dutch handbook as most could read English. But in developing world, not everyone has this level of educatoin
  353. Jun 16 13:55:20 <add1sun>       bekasu, yep for now
  354. Jun 16 13:55:26 <bekasu>        what about something of value for the project contributors / module contributors
  355. Jun 16 13:55:34 <bekasu>        i'm thinking of this as a 'test the waters' idea
  356. Jun 16 13:55:37 <jhodgdon>      Margaux: yes, someone still has to tdo the translation
  357. Jun 16 13:55:52 <bekasu>        so don't everybody yawn at the same time
  358. Jun 16 13:55:52 <bekasu>        here goes
  359. Jun 16 13:55:56 <add1sun>       :)
  360. Jun 16 13:56:00 <bekasu>        how about we develop a doc' module
  361. Jun 16 13:56:12 <add1sun>       bekasu, we have one ;)
  362. Jun 16 13:56:13 <esmerel>       YAWN
  363. Jun 16 13:56:17 <bekasu>        that retains a database entry fore each modules 'install.txt' file
  364. Jun 16 13:56:19 <esmerel>       oh sorry
  365. Jun 16 13:56:19 <esmerel>       :)
  366. Jun 16 13:56:21 <add1sun>       bu that can mean lots of things
  367. Jun 16 13:56:26 <add1sun>       ahh
  368. Jun 16 13:56:33 <bekasu>        and generates an html version for use in cvs/package/
  369. Jun 16 13:56:37 <bekasu>        including for drupal
  370. Jun 16 13:56:38 <Margaux>       jhodgdon: sorry, I see now, I misread your previous comment about Internationalization  :)
  371. Jun 16 13:56:40 <bekasu>        would have to have versions in it
  372. Jun 16 13:56:51 <add1sun>       bekasu, one thing that will definitely be addressed in the #1 arch stuff
  373. Jun 16 13:56:58 <add1sun>       is how to single source content
  374. Jun 16 13:57:20 <bekasu>        would it be impolitic to do a 'test' concept
  375. Jun 16 13:57:24 <jhodgdon>      margaux: yes, only the *links* are automatic. Still need bilingual individuals to translate
  376. Jun 16 13:57:28 <bekasu>        to see the warts we are missing
  377. Jun 16 13:57:41 <bekasu>        or do i need to wait
  378. Jun 16 13:57:44 <MGParisi>      jhodgdon: yea, well its a CI that is obviously above my "pay grade" because it just gets caught up in an issue queue that slowly falls down the line.  It involves the webmaster's, and without the document community backing, it will not get resolved (it will fall down the issue queue)
  379. Jun 16 13:57:45 <add1sun>       bekasu, do you mean to do it to see where docs are missing?
  380. Jun 16 13:57:50 <add1sun>       or
  381. Jun 16 13:57:52 <add1sun>       ?
  382. Jun 16 13:57:53 <bekasu>        michael - please cover your mouth when you yawn
  383. Jun 16 13:57:55 <jhodgdon>      add1sun: incorporating Advanced Help from modules like Views too
  384. Jun 16 13:58:10 <bekasu>        i mean
  385. Jun 16 13:58:13 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, the drupaldocs module depends on AH
  386. Jun 16 13:58:24 <jhodgdon>      ?
  387. Jun 16 13:58:30 <bekasu>        the concept of pulling every install.txt file from cvs for every module
  388. Jun 16 13:58:41 <bekasu>        or some subset since my hard drive is getting full
  389. Jun 16 13:58:48 <bekasu>        analyze each install file
  390. Jun 16 13:58:52 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, http://drupal.org/project/drupaldocs
  391. Jun 16 13:58:56 <bekasu>        and see what an install file needs to have
  392. Jun 16 13:58:58 <bekasu>        in it
  393. Jun 16 13:59:04 <add1sun>       a module to include docs in Drupal install
  394. Jun 16 13:59:19 <add1sun>       bekasu, ahh
  395. Jun 16 13:59:30 <bekasu>        as a start, it would be nice to have a static html in the module package when it i downloaded
  396. Jun 16 13:59:46 <add1sun>       bekasu, i think that would be a very interesting thing and something you might want to run by beccascollan
  397. Jun 16 13:59:47 <bekasu>        instead of assuming everyone knows to go look for an install.txt file with ugly formatting
  398. Jun 16 13:59:47 <Senpai>        true, true.
  399. Jun 16 13:59:48 <bekasu>        but
  400. Jun 16 13:59:52 <add1sun>       in terms of info that she is lookig at
  401. Jun 16 14:00:06 <beccascollan>  I'm listening :)
  402. Jun 16 14:00:12 <bekasu>        the larger picture is to somehow get the project contributors to stick a little toe in the world of docs
  403. Jun 16 14:00:14 <jhodgdon>      add1sun: confused about drupaldocs module - what docs does it include in a drupal install?
  404. Jun 16 14:00:14 <beccascollan>  have a no-show
  405. Jun 16 14:00:24 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, whatever we want to put in it
  406. Jun 16 14:00:44 <jhodgdon>      where do they come from?
  407. Jun 16 14:00:46 <jhodgdon>      what site?
  408. Jun 16 14:00:49 <jhodgdon>      still confused
  409. Jun 16 14:00:51 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, there is a project being led by acquia that will use this
  410. Jun 16 14:00:57 <add1sun>       that will be announced really soon
  411. Jun 16 14:01:09 <add1sun>       to provide contextual help in a drupal install
  412. Jun 16 14:01:14 <add1sun>       beyond what core provides
  413. Jun 16 14:01:24 <jhodgdon>      does this help us put the Views doc into the Handbook? (Views doc is officially only in advanced help in the Views module)
  414. Jun 16 14:01:28 <jhodgdon>      (sorry for being stupid)
  415. Jun 16 14:01:34 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, basically we can write say "upgrade guide" in HTML files
  416. Jun 16 14:01:40 <add1sun>       package it in the drupaldoc module
  417. Jun 16 14:01:52 <add1sun>       ad then when yu install the module you will have access to that guide
  418. Jun 16 14:01:55 <MGParisi>      there is 4,350 modules... each with its own documentation :(
  419. Jun 16 14:01:57 <add1sun>       from inside your drupal site
  420. Jun 16 14:01:57 <bekasu>        yes
  421. Jun 16 14:02:06 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, ohhhhh
  422. Jun 16 14:02:07 <bekasu>        michael - stay positive and say that with a smile
  423. Jun 16 14:02:09 <jhodgdon>      OK. What I was looking for was the opposit
  424. Jun 16 14:02:12 <add1sun>       you are talking about the other direction
  425. Jun 16 14:02:15 <add1sun>       right
  426. Jun 16 14:02:15 <jhodgdon>      yes
  427. Jun 16 14:02:18 <jhodgdon>      :)
  428. Jun 16 14:02:19 <bekasu>        exactly
  429. Jun 16 14:02:21 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, that topic has come up
  430. Jun 16 14:02:21 <jhodgdon>      jinx
  431. Jun 16 14:02:24 <jhodgdon>      yes
  432. Jun 16 14:02:27 <jhodgdon>      in issue queue
  433. Jun 16 14:02:27 <add1sun>       between myself and merlin
  434. Jun 16 14:02:28 <bekasu>        anyhow
  435. Jun 16 14:02:33 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, i've seen that
  436. Jun 16 14:02:35 <bekasu>        i'm game to give it a go
  437. Jun 16 14:02:41 <add1sun>       but in the past we have discussed this too
  438. Jun 16 14:02:43 <jhodgdon>      http://drupal.org/node/492210
  439. Jun 16 14:02:47 <Druplicon>     http://drupal.org/node/492210 => Create a Way to Display Advanced Help Documentation. => Documentation, New documentation, normal, active, 1 IRC mention
  440. Jun 16 14:02:48 <bekasu>        but wanted to be sure the analysis would be helpful
  441. Jun 16 14:02:55 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, the original idea was that we would get a new help system in core
  442. Jun 16 14:03:02 <add1sun>       that is very similair to AH
  443. Jun 16 14:03:09 <add1sun>       so that core would simply have that
  444. Jun 16 14:03:13 <add1sun>       and then D.o would run it
  445. Jun 16 14:03:24 <add1sun>       and could draw any help text docs ontot hte site
  446. Jun 16 14:03:28 <add1sun>       but the help patch has died
  447. Jun 16 14:03:29 <bekasu>        exactly
  448. Jun 16 14:03:42 <add1sun>       so now we need to look at using AH module itself as a contrib moduke
  449. Jun 16 14:03:46 <bekasu>        and it could be an addon module so we could provide to the community for their sites
  450. Jun 16 14:03:52 <jhodgdon>      Problem: if many modules wanted their handbooks' AH (or equivalent) to display on d.o, would d.o need to load all those modules? not feasible
  451. Jun 16 14:03:55 <add1sun>       and/or just pulling HTML directly from code into the handbooks
  452. Jun 16 14:04:07 <add1sun>       but that needs to thought out carefully
  453. Jun 16 14:04:12 <add1sun>       but jhodgdon yes, on my radar
  454. Jun 16 14:04:22 *       scor has quit ()
  455. Jun 16 14:04:24 <jhodgdon>      Needs to be a process like generating api.d.o probably (pull things out of projects on a schedule)
  456. Jun 16 14:04:48 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, yep
  457. Jun 16 14:04:50 <jhodgdon>      (replacing previous version of doc)
  458. Jun 16 14:04:58 <bekasu>        i agree that it needs to be a push on the AH
  459. Jun 16 14:05:15 <bekasu>        however, you need to allow a pull in case of a critical change
  460. Jun 16 14:05:21 <bekasu>        or rather
  461. Jun 16 14:05:40 <jhodgdon>      Would be good if it could do API module pulls from contrib modules as well. If modules want it, anwyay, a module could register to have a handbook section
  462. Jun 16 14:05:48 <add1sun>       OK, so I hate to break the flow, but it is 2 pm
  463. Jun 16 14:06:03 <add1sun>       so "official" time that i have for the meeting is over
  464. Jun 16 14:06:04 <bekasu>        heck
  465. Jun 16 14:06:05 <bekasu>        i'm in the wrong time zone
  466. Jun 16 14:06:11 <add1sun>       hehe
  467. Jun 16 14:06:18 <jhodgdon>      most of us probably are. :)
  468. Jun 16 14:06:23 <bekasu>        :)
  469. Jun 16 14:06:28 <jhodgdon>      Thanks add1sun!
  470. Jun 16 14:06:37 <add1sun>       i have a client call soon, so i need to roll out
  471. Jun 16 14:06:37 <bekasu>        appreciate your time on this
  472. Jun 16 14:06:42 <bekasu>        later folks
  473. Jun 16 14:06:44 <add1sun>       but definitely feel free to keep going
  474. Jun 16 14:06:51 <esmerel>       jhodgdon: that's crazy talk. NExt you'll be wanting a link that hits the issue queue for a module and sorts on if the issue is a doc update
  475. Jun 16 14:06:59 <add1sun>       and/or to come back and use the channel for discussion whenever
  476. Jun 16 14:07:12 <add1sun>       so action items:
  477. Jun 16 14:07:33 <add1sun>       1) i'll post the minutes from this in the next day or two (unless someone else wants to sumamrize it for me)
  478. Jun 16 14:07:52 <add1sun>       2) anyone that has specific stuff they want to work on should post to the mailing list
  479. Jun 16 14:07:58 <Margaux>       add1sun, thank you so much for all you're giving to the docs! :)
  480. Jun 16 14:07:58 <mroswell>       I didn't totally follow the conversation... didn't know what "the help patch died" or exactly what push and pull signify... So, I look forward to the minutes, to see if a summary helps.
  481. Jun 16 14:08:07 <add1sun>       and see if others want to join in and maybe make a CI page to coordinate
  482. Jun 16 14:08:27 <jhodgdon>      You mean we need to work on all the crazy ideas we threw out? :)
  483. Jun 16 14:08:31 <add1sun>       mroswell, well i'm probably not going to get into a lot of detial in the summary
  484. Jun 16 14:08:38 <add1sun>       though i will try to link off
  485. Jun 16 14:08:44 <bekasu>        work - isn't that a four letter word
  486. Jun 16 14:08:55 *       ejhildreth (n=m1mic@75-174-13-73.bois.qwest.net) has joined #drupal-docs
  487. Jun 16 14:08:55 <jhodgdon>      (counts) seems to be
  488. Jun 16 14:09:00 *       m1mic has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  489. Jun 16 14:09:00 <add1sun>       mroswell, since the patch dies it isn't relevant for us to focus on right now
  490. Jun 16 14:09:15 <add1sun>       jhodgdon, ;)
  491. Jun 16 14:09:15 <beccascollan>  I have a random question to throw out
  492. Jun 16 14:09:39 *       add1sun listens
  493. Jun 16 14:09:41 <beccascollan>  Are there any project out there that do documentation really well? that anyone can think of?
  494. Jun 16 14:10:06 <beccascollan>  hehe, cuz I rarely read it
  495. Jun 16 14:10:31 <add1sun>       hehe
  496. Jun 16 14:10:44 <add1sun>       yeah i am not terribly familiar with other project docs atm
  497. Jun 16 14:10:57 <add1sun>       and i think there are aspects of other project docs
  498. Jun 16 14:11:03 <jhodgdon>      beccascollan: are you talking about "projects" as in d.o/project or like "Drupal" "WordPress" "Ubuntu", "Apache"
  499. Jun 16 14:11:10 <jhodgdon>      and "do" meaning "process" or "results"?
  500. Jun 16 14:11:10 <add1sun>       but not necessarily a "whole set" that is awesome
  501. Jun 16 14:11:27 <beccascollan>  ok, not the d.o project
  502. Jun 16 14:11:31 <beccascollan>  the others :)
  503. Jun 16 14:12:02 <jhodgdon>      Because from my perspective, both PHP and MySQL have excellent doc (all they need basically is API doc though, as they are for programmers)
  504. Jun 16 14:12:06 <beccascollan>  and I mean, provide documentation that makes people fairly happy/comfortable, if that makes any sense
  505. Jun 16 14:12:10 <jhodgdon>      (not at all the same as Drupal)
  506. Jun 16 14:12:12 <add1sun>       oh also, real quick, anyone that has *not* done the current survey, please swing by http://docs.drupaltest.org/
  507. Jun 16 14:12:37 <beccascollan>  ah, ok, any communities with a wider audience like drupal?
  508. Jun 16 14:12:58 <beccascollan>  (think both are important)
  509. Jun 16 14:13:04 <jhodgdon>      (I do too)
  510. Jun 16 14:13:23 <mroswell>      A survey on thanks... interesting!
  511. Jun 16 14:13:39 <add1sun>       beccascollan, sounds like a great post to push to planet ;)
  512. Jun 16 14:13:42 <jhodgdon>      Apache doc
  513. Jun 16 14:13:42 <beccascollan>  we, don't need an answer today, but if anyone encounters one please ping me
  514. Jun 16 14:13:57 <beccascollan>  ha ok
  515. Jun 16 14:13:59 <jhodgdon>      Again, oriented towards the tech person
  516. Jun 16 14:14:03 <jhodgdon>      but not programmer per se
  517. Jun 16 14:14:06 <add1sun>       beccascollan, actually i can also ask on the wosdocs forum
  518. Jun 16 14:14:13 <MGParisi>      Advanced Help is essentially putting more documentation into cvs and off the website... Does anyone else see this as an issue?  I love providing control over when and were documentation shows within a module, but cant we build it within the content management system drupal already has?  
  519. Jun 16 14:14:16 <jhodgdon>      (I rarely read doc oriented towards non-techies, why would I need to?)
  520. Jun 16 14:14:38 <add1sun>       MGParisi, it is an issue, but it goes both ways
  521. Jun 16 14:14:44 <jhodgdon>      MGParaisi: Putting doc in CVS avoids the mess we have now in the Handbook. Not a terrible thing.
  522. Jun 16 14:14:50 <beccascollan>  it's be helpful to get a sense of anything that "works" out there, for techies and non
  523. Jun 16 14:14:55 <add1sun>       i hope that once we redo IA and build new tools that we'll have a better solution
  524. Jun 16 14:15:14 <jhodgdon>      beccascollan: The Apache doc has worked for me in the past.
  525. Jun 16 14:15:26 <add1sun>       so that things can be single-sourced and available in several formats/places
  526. Jun 16 14:15:34 <jhodgdon>      But setting up an Apache server is not something a non-tech person would probably attempt.
  527. Jun 16 14:15:39 <beccascollan>  jhodgdon: thx, will take a look
  528. Jun 16 14:15:42 <Margaux>       (i have to run to another meeting too -- thanks to all of you for your contributions, i appreciate them!)
  529. Jun 16 14:15:49 <add1sun>       btw, all of you rock
  530. Jun 16 14:15:53 <add1sun>       thank you all so much

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