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- [4:21:49 PM] *** KoH_David added derivatequill, Laser Circus ***
- [4:22:45 PM] KoH_David: ok that s just about everyone, though Ill be look at the chat on and off. I'm kinda making a big reply to someone saying that GD and GH both don't offer new experinces that they can't get in LOL
- [4:22:58 PM] KoH_David: cause even if my small amount of time in GD, I know that statement is wrong
- [4:28:05 PM] KoH_David: Also Cel i have a question for you, if you could ask the coding guys something cause I don't have any of them added
- [4:28:17 PM] Sera: Shoot.
- [4:28:29 PM] KoH_David: me and workshop and others
- [4:28:44 PM] KoH_David: go back and forth on how to nerf speed shrines in GH
- [4:28:49 PM] KoH_David: he feels the duration should be cut
- [4:29:00 PM] KoH_David: I feel the buff should be removed when you take damage
- [4:29:40 PM] Sera: nods
- [4:30:04 PM] KoH_David: his concern is that Dot abilities would screw over anyone that wants the speed buff, which he is right. I'm wondering is it possble to only make the first tick of a DoT ability be able to remove the speed buff
- [4:30:07 PM] KoH_David: *?
- [4:30:38 PM] KoH_David: cause that would be a simple way to solve that problem, but I'm not sure if it can be coded
- [4:30:56 PM] Sera: Probably, but then the work around for that would be to see you were hit by a DoT, get off the pad, and then touch it again and regain the buff.
- [4:31:19 PM] KoH_David: hmm
- [4:31:26 PM] KoH_David: well i think a way to address that would be to do the following
- [4:32:07 PM] KoH_David: if you have the speed shrine buff and you get hit by a DoT ability, you get a debuff that does not allow you to take the speed shrine for X seconds
- [4:33:06 PM] Sera: Which is probably possible, but sounds a little complicated, because it’s a debuff that has to only trigger on Gotham Heights, under strict circumstances, and only on certain effects.
- [4:33:16 PM] KoH_David: yeah that's an issue
- [4:33:16 PM] Sera: But, yeah, it could be possible.
- [4:33:37 PM] Sera: It comes down to, in the end, what’s fun to play with
- [4:34:02 PM] KoH_David: yeah. I just feel speed shrines give too much of an advantage to a team that controls it
- [4:34:17 PM] KoH_David: and lowering the duration will not fix the problem in my opinion
- [4:34:55 PM] KoH_David: anway what do you want to talk to us about, though i think im the only one here atm
- [4:34:58 PM] Sera: Well, it’s something that I can bring up, but can’t promise it may be acted on.
- [4:35:25 PM] Sera: Right. Well, this is mostly a conversation you and I have already had, I think, David. But it’s a conversation I want to have with the wider KoH group.
- [4:35:57 PM] KoH_David: ah
- [4:36:25 PM] Sera: It comes down to the whole GD vs. GH debate thing.
- [4:36:35 PM] Sera: And it’s a conversation I’m having with multiple people.
- [4:36:51 PM] Sera: And the long and short of it is that these posts need to stop from all parties.
- [4:40:45 PM] KoH_David: might want to wait for more people to come back then before we go all in on this topic.
- [4:40:50 PM] Sera: Yeah.
- [4:41:20 PM] KoH_David: I know gen won't be home until 4pm EST today
- [4:41:26 PM] Sera: It’s just, after being asked by you guys yesterday to “clamp down” on people who “dissented,” I was a little shocked.
- [4:41:42 PM] Sera: That’s not how I want the forums to be run in the least.
- [4:42:12 PM] Sera: Kks, well, I’ll be here all day.
- [4:42:17 PM] Sera: For whenever people get back.
- [4:43:49 PM] KoH_David: well to be honest people have to remember just because I make a thread or gen makes a thread does not mean what is being said applies to everyone in the KoH. Some people in the group are much more vocal, other you never see post. Some create more drama, other's not really. etc
- [4:44:13 PM] KoH_David: I am seeing it a lot form community members
- [4:44:18 PM] KoH_David: not from you or devs
- [4:44:30 PM] Sera: Well, I wanted to come here more to empower you guys rather than scold.
- [4:44:41 PM] Sera: You guys, like it or not, are the faces of our GH scene.
- [4:44:56 PM] Sera: And whatever you do, you do as a group… even if it’s one member who may say something.
- [4:45:14 PM] Sera: But that’s a really good and powerful thing, because you guys can really rally the troops, as it were.
- [4:45:53 PM] Sera: And you guys set the bar for how that portion of the community will act.
- [4:47:08 PM] KoH_David: I kinda feel though when it comes to GH
- [4:47:11 PM] KoH_David: to us
- [4:47:25 PM] KoH_David: well first of all a lot of the other teams are not nearly as vocal as us
- [4:47:46 PM] KoH_David: this can be either because they don't to be, they don't have the background some of us do have, or other reason
- [4:49:05 PM] KoH_David: and then there is the fact that some people in the GH community don't like us, even though we have been doing more for the map then anyone else
- [4:49:14 PM] KoH_David: or at least we try
- [4:50:11 PM] Sera: Well, part of that comes from the fact that, again, I say this as a whole, KoH creates these pretty inflammatory threads that do start fights. I.E. the post that’s currently running at the top of general discussion.
- [4:50:33 PM] Sera: And it’s that constant drama that’s leading to people wanting to move away… even here in the building.
- [4:50:51 PM] Sera: It doesn’t help you make your case.
- [4:51:01 PM] Sera: And I say that in the broad sense, I know it’s not specifically you, David.
- [4:51:29 PM] KoH_David: well yeah nothing really comes from drama, but generally speaking my thread i make are not their for drama
- [4:51:52 PM] KoH_David: like the thread i made last week was to just address some issues people might see with the map
- [4:52:00 PM] Sera: Right, which is a good thread to start.
- [4:52:13 PM] Sera: Like, that’s far from an issue. That’s just a good thread.
- [4:52:22 PM] KoH_David: with that said gen's thread is a little...drama heavy lol
- [4:52:32 PM] KoH_David: but I can understand why gen is upset
- [4:52:47 PM] Sera: I can too, but there are better ways to handle it. I guess that’s what I’m trying to say, and it’s why I’m here.
- [4:52:51 PM] KoH_David: in fact i can understand why most of the peopleare upset, I just might not agree with how it's being handled
- [4:53:27 PM] KoH_David: then again though, we do feel people are turbine are making huge mistakes here for IC
- [4:53:30 PM] KoH_David: like everyone else
- [4:53:34 PM] KoH_David: we like any GD team
- [4:53:40 PM] KoH_David: want to see IC grow intoa big game
- [4:53:48 PM] KoH_David: we really really do
- [4:54:10 PM] KoH_David: I just feel our vision and other peoples vision are very different from one another
- [4:54:32 PM] KoH_David: even in our team we have different opinions on this
- [4:55:08 PM] Sera: nods
- [4:55:14 PM] Sera: Afk for a meeting.
- [5:14:59 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): So if you were to make the speed buff turn off with enemy ability contact, you would have to leave and re-enter the speed shrine to get the buff. Watch out for items and non-damaging spells: Pandora's Box, API's E, etc. It would just be safer AND more consistent in gameplay to just shorten the buff to 6 seconds.
- [5:22:49 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): What is this Joining/Considering Harmony stuff I'm seeing on forum profiles
- [5:26:31 PM] derivatequill: We asked for clamping down on dissent?
- [5:27:01 PM] derivatequill: I just woke up and am a bit confused.
- [5:30:53 PM] KoH_David: remember though the change i want to see is to make it less powerful for a team that controls the enemy speed shrine and starts a fight while they have it and the enemies do not. Cutting the duration would also effect a lot more things like ganks at bot lane and how long it takes a player to get to top with the pad, where removing the buff from damage would cause less damage and not change as much for the overall map.
- [5:32:06 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): the team that is losing can control the speed shrine in order to win a fight and come back
- [5:32:09 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): it works both ways
- [5:32:31 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): by changing the way they work doesnt add/remove depth
- [5:32:36 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): it just rearranges the dpth
- [5:33:43 PM] KoH_David: yeah but im talking about a situation where the enemy team all died or recalled, your team took BP from your base and teleported near their shrine. You then camped the shrine and waited (most likely warded too) in it for the enemies to come. Then when you see them come you start a fight with a massive movement speed advantage that they simply can not get nor remove.
- [5:33:47 PM] KoH_David: That needs to be weaker
- [5:33:57 PM] KoH_David: and it's not hard to pull off this strat in GH at all
- [5:34:09 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): so why havent we done it?
- [5:34:17 PM] KoH_David: cause we never try would be one reason
- [5:34:23 PM] KoH_David: and we do, do it
- [5:34:28 PM] KoH_David: but not as often as we should
- [5:34:41 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): bring it up in the tourney on firday
- [5:34:53 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): and if its as big of a snowball effect as you make it ound then i'll agree
- [5:34:58 PM] KoH_David: ok
- [5:34:59 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): but there are ways around it
- [5:35:05 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): y'know, like running cams
- [5:35:24 PM] KoH_David: yeah but remember we will have a lot of ways to clear cams for top
- [5:35:26 PM] KoH_David: at least we should
- [5:35:32 PM] derivatequill: we don't do it because we have good reason to not camp anywhere
- [5:35:48 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): "hmm, where'd our cams go? lets all go over there without knowledge of the enemy team and see what happened."
- [5:36:16 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): anyone that considered enemy positions during their movement would avoid that
- [5:36:33 PM] KoH_David: yeah but then they have one of two options if we control it
- [5:36:38 PM] KoH_David: they either gank bot
- [5:36:46 PM] KoH_David: or move up with the lane to top
- [5:36:53 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): which is shown to be extremely successful
- [5:37:00 PM] KoH_David: if we control the shrine we should ward the surrounding area
- [5:37:15 PM] KoH_David: expect when you put yourself in lane it's easy to gank them
- [5:37:17 PM] KoH_David: very easy
- [5:37:25 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): if you find the time to do that we are far ahead at that point anyway
- [5:38:11 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): or we're behind and made a big play that put us ahead
- [5:38:21 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): there's counterplay
- [5:38:30 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): but our competition isnt at a high enough level to do it
- [5:39:28 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): also when we paly DIV they might have inkdeath
- [5:39:34 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): hes been playing with them recently
- [5:39:43 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): so we'll just ban mww and ivy prime
- [5:39:53 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): then its practically 4v5
- [5:40:12 PM] derivatequill: Hasn't he picked up new stuff?
- [5:40:13 PM] KoH_David: umm that leaves atomic, arcane SG, joker
- [5:40:15 PM] KoH_David: and many othes
- [5:40:16 PM] KoH_David: open
- [5:40:17 PM] KoH_David: i rather not
- [5:40:34 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): i dont think they ave an sg player
- [5:40:45 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): nor do i think other people respect that pick as much as we do
- [5:40:45 PM] KoH_David: do we want to take that chance with SG or even Arcane?
- [5:40:57 PM] derivatequill: I'm more worried about argl than SG
- [5:41:16 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): then we'll ban it and have vol play mww or david play ivy
- [5:41:21 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): ez
- [5:41:25 PM] KoH_David: yeah i kinda wish the patch would have been this week
- [5:41:37 PM] KoH_David: cause i really hate how all the controllers are out of control...pun
- [5:41:55 PM] KoH_David: and how Arcane, Joker, SG are just broken
- [5:42:25 PM] KoH_David: brb need a time machine to go back in time before the Sep update
- [5:42:40 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): but when you come back it will still be sept update
- [5:42:47 PM] KoH_David: :(
- [5:42:53 PM] derivatequill: I've actually been finding most Arcane GLs not doing that much damage
- [5:43:02 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): they dont build cdr
- [5:43:20 PM] KoH_David: pretty much
- [5:43:21 PM] derivatequill: I max cdr and still don't do as much damage as I would on a blaster/controller
- [5:43:37 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): you also tank tons more than you would on a blaster/controller
- [5:43:41 PM] derivatequill: David can show me if he likes
- [5:43:50 PM] KoH_David: if not so much about the flat damage
- [5:43:55 PM] KoH_David: it's about how often he is doing
- [5:44:02 PM] KoH_David: plus him being tanky
- [5:44:09 PM] KoH_David: you can go full PD
- [5:44:15 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): asl+lantern toss=win
- [5:46:01 PM] derivatequill: ASL is good but really hurts tanking early
- [5:46:49 PM] derivatequill: So what is this clamping down on dissent?
- [6:10:53 PM] KoH_David: someone ask what would make dominion players come to IC
- [6:11:19 PM] KoH_David: I tell them how most people feel that was part of DD and how they would come to this game and someone thinks it going to start drama
- [6:11:30 PM] KoH_David: don't ask a question if you are not going to like the answer lol
- [6:11:50 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): http://i.imgur.com/4he2TrO.png
- [6:11:54 PM] KoH_David: cause I know laser and workshop where not part of DD, but me, gen, and vol were
- [6:11:54 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): same concept
- [6:12:18 PM] KoH_David: lol
- [6:13:07 PM] derivatequill: So where is this us asking for clamping down?
- [6:13:10 PM] derivatequill: Is there a quote or something?
- [6:13:42 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I have no idea what youre talking about or I would have given you an answer by now
- [6:14:49 PM] KoH_David: Cel is still in her meeting i think
- [6:15:30 PM] derivatequill: [4:41 PM] Sera:
- <<< It’s just, after being asked by you guys yesterday to “clamp down” on people who “dissented,” I was a little shocked.
- That’s not how I want the forums to be run in the least.
- Kks, well, I’ll be here all day.
- For whenever people get back.
- [6:16:06 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): We don't want the faces of the community making harsh remarks towards GH because it hurts GH
- [6:16:09 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): and IC overall
- [6:16:27 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): GH is irrelevant
- GH should be idsable for X amount of time
- etc.
- [6:17:07 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): bashing and making remarks without putting any thought into them will only hurt the community
- [6:18:20 PM] Sera: Back
- [6:18:24 PM] Sera: So, yeah, I agree.
- [6:18:51 PM] Sera: But I can’t stop everyone from having an opinion, nor will I attempt to silence what someone thinks.
- [6:19:09 PM] Sera: However, I am going around and highly discouraging everyone from bringing up this really stupid debate, and that includes y'all.
- [6:20:14 PM] Sera: Also, the new titles are for Starro’s release.
- [6:20:21 PM] Sera: They are based on post count.
- [6:21:21 PM] Sera: But, to answer your specific question, yesterday, I think it was Gen, but he asked me if I could “clamp down” and “silence” people on the forums who didn’t like GH.
- [6:21:34 PM] Sera: Which I am not about to do for anyone… GH or GD.
- [6:22:04 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Gen's a drama queen haha
- [6:24:32 PM] KoH_David: ^
- [6:27:05 PM] derivatequill: Well maybe you guys should stand up for GH yourselves.
- [6:30:35 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Have you even read any post I've made in the past 2 weeks?
- [6:30:58 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I'm out with Gen on the front lines of this shitfest
- [6:31:07 PM] Sera: I think he means us
- [6:31:14 PM] derivatequill: No talking to Sera
- [6:31:18 PM] Sera: And we do not side with one map. We are for all of our game.
- [6:31:36 PM] Sera: We work very hard on all aspects of it, GH, GD, and CC.
- [6:31:52 PM] derivatequill: That's fine but people seem not to be getting that message.
- [6:32:38 PM] Sera: People will always have opinions, that’s fine. The only thing I and the rest of the team will do is keep stating our position. If they restate it, they will restate it.
- [6:32:46 PM] Sera: But I’ve said that exact line many, many, many times.
- [6:33:48 PM] derivatequill: Well I'll wait for gen to come explain.
- [6:33:57 PM] Sera: That’s fine.
- [6:34:12 PM] Sera: But my point to you is that creating threads like the one running in the forums right now is doing more harm for your cause than good.
- [6:39:57 PM] KoH_David: kinda like how Paradigm thinks im doing harm in the "What do Dominion players want?" even though im clearly stating what they want XD
- [6:40:19 PM] KoH_David: If i recall when it comes to the topic of Dominion in LOL
- [6:40:38 PM] Sera: I don’t think there’s harm there, and i think Paradigm is insane, lol.
- [6:40:49 PM] KoH_David: Dominion would have died a long time ago if it was not for Dominate Dominion
- [6:41:47 PM] KoH_David: Gen i think you need to explain on the forums that you are the drama creator
- [6:41:48 PM] KoH_David: not me
- [6:41:50 PM] KoH_David: lol
- [6:42:28 PM] derivatequill: Well let us wait for Gen
- [6:44:40 PM] derivatequill: Anyone want to play?
- [6:44:58 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): In University parking lot
- [6:45:27 PM] KoH_David: Hammerborn as been acting like a jerk recently though
- [6:45:53 PM] KoH_David: I don't know what is problem is, if you don't like something and don't want to see it why do you post to get it more viewer?
- [6:45:58 PM] KoH_David: is that not counter productive
- [6:46:00 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I used to like him
- [6:46:13 PM] derivatequill: He has been saying much which is wrong or nonsensical. I agree with Workshop.
- [6:46:35 PM] KoH_David: i got another Paradigm reply
- [6:46:38 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): He did those summaries and got to give away t-shirts and it completely changed his attitude
- [6:46:39 PM] KoH_David: grabs pop corn
- [6:48:21 PM] KoH_David: ok it was a nicer reply
- [6:48:29 PM] KoH_David: "puts pop corn away"
- [6:49:47 PM | Edited 6:50:10 PM] KoH_David: his question is interesting
- [6:50:03 PM] KoH_David: but it's something i think all of us would give a different answer too
- [6:50:05 PM] derivatequill: Link?
- [6:50:14 PM] KoH_David: https://www.infinitecrisis.com/forums/showthread.php?16321-What-do-Dominion-players-want&p=137290#post137290
- [6:50:17 PM] KoH_David: like in my opinion
- [6:50:25 PM] KoH_David: when i started playing mobas 3-4 years ago
- [6:50:38 PM] KoH_David: League did not have a co-op vs AI mode
- [6:50:55 PM | Edited 6:51:10 PM] KoH_David: the only way I was allowed to learn a map was to queue up in it with real players and pray lol
- [6:50:59 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): They didn't even have it when I started
- [6:51:05 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Be back in 90
- [6:51:30 PM] KoH_David: so In my opinion if someone wants to learn the map, I feel a new player gets the best experinces vsing others
- [6:51:42 PM] KoH_David: on that map
- [6:52:06 PM] derivatequill: I'd market the game, not the maps, but 3 is a very small number.
- [6:52:14 PM] KoH_David: when you market another map as a intro map as say GH, it really does not teach you how to jungle, lane, etc
- [7:27:38 PM] KoH_David: Cel tell axslav to look at his skype
- [7:27:50 PM] Sera: He’s not at his desk
- [7:27:52 PM] Sera: Wait
- [7:27:52 PM] KoH_David: i was still talking to him about the third place reward lol
- [7:27:53 PM] Sera: Now he is
- [7:28:01 PM] KoH_David: from a few days ago
- [7:28:14 PM] KoH_David: cause he was worried about time if we offer a third place
- [7:28:35 PM] KoH_David: but I think he misunderstands that not all the games will be streamed, so it's ok to offer it
- [7:29:05 PM] KoH_David: also i need to know if doing a raffle with like merit codes would be ok for teams that did not places first, second, or third. I think it be really nice to offer people that
- [7:29:21 PM] KoH_David: kinda as a thank you for signing up here is a chance of winning something
- [7:30:27 PM] derivatequill: I don't like a raffle, just split the consolation rewards between everyone evenly.
- [7:30:43 PM] KoH_David: the reward would have to be huge
- [7:30:44 PM] KoH_David: to do that
- [7:30:51 PM] KoH_David: the raffle reward should be something small
- [7:30:54 PM] KoH_David: like merit or something
- [7:31:09 PM] KoH_David: i think raffles are fun
- [7:33:02 PM] derivatequill: Yeah, so split the merit.
- [7:33:10 PM] derivatequill: Give everyone 1k merit or something
- [7:34:14 PM] derivatequill: Fun maybe, but less consistent and more waffly.
- [7:35:08 PM] KoH_David: if 8 teams sign up
- [7:35:36 PM] KoH_David: hmm
- [7:35:41 PM] KoH_David: idk i need to know if we can even do it
- [7:57:04 PM] Laser Circus: Yes i agree we are building enemies with the certain posts that are brought up
- [7:57:50 PM] KoH_David: yeah but it's mostly gen lol
- [7:57:54 PM] KoH_David: my post i did last week
- [7:57:59 PM] KoH_David: was hardly there to build drama
- [8:03:39 PM] Laser Circus: yes those were okay until people who bring the mentality of GD being threatened come into play
- [8:54:37 PM] KoH_David: well a big thank you for stez007 for his post
- [8:54:50 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): which one? a new one?
- [8:54:54 PM] KoH_David: yeah
- [9:05:45 PM] Laser Circus: there are mutiple answers to this @.@
- [9:14:48 PM] KoH_David: Man_of_KillSteal comment...
- [9:14:51 PM] KoH_David: i just had to reply to it
- [9:15:11 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I wish I was a superhuman
- [9:15:19 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): And had the ability to give cancer
- [9:15:23 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): He would get it
- [9:52:05 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Alrighty I'm back from work now
- [9:52:12 PM] derivatequill: Hihi.
- [9:52:24 PM] derivatequill: I have mussels in the pressure cooker.
- [9:54:28 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I'm not really sure where to start, so give me a starting point.
- [9:54:43 PM] derivatequill: Your conversation with Celestrata yesterday.
- [9:54:56 PM] Steven M (Genericke): What was the conversation that I had?
- [9:55:17 PM] Sera: I do believe you mentioned in the tournament planning chat for me to “squelch” people who badmouthed GH.
- [9:55:27 PM] Sera: I remember it was someone in the tournament planning chat
- [9:56:23 PM] Steven M (Genericke): So, someone like Krashy says something like "let's disable GH for the sake of GD." Knowing him, where do you think this is coming from, what do you think his intention is, and why do you think it shouldn't be squelched?
- [9:56:56 PM] Sera: So I will not, and will never, squelch someone from voicing an opinion.
- [9:57:10 PM] Sera: Unless it violates the community guidelines… which not liking a map does not violate said guidelines.
- [9:57:48 PM] Sera: If I started doing that, then that opens a whole can of worms.
- [9:57:55 PM] Steven M (Genericke): But you know him, and you know his history.
- [9:58:05 PM] Sera: I do.
- [9:58:12 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Serious question. Why hasn't he been banned from posting on the forums yet given his history and overall toxicity?
- [9:58:33 PM] Sera: The same reason I didn’t ban you out for starting an attack against Sue in the general discussion.
- [9:58:40 PM] Sera: We don’t ban for opinions.
- [9:58:44 PM] Steven M (Genericke): She started that attack, and I defended
- [9:59:15 PM] Sera: Gen, I’m not going to get into this argument. I came here to talk to the team as a whole with the plan I am moving forward with.
- [9:59:56 PM] Sera: I’ve talked to a slew of people regarding this, and it comes down to this: I want the GH vs. GD thing to die from all sides. Yours, theirs, the moon’s… doesn’t matter.
- [10:00:18 PM] derivatequill: Okay, what's the plan?
- [10:00:23 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Then I'm going to ask you deep down. At the end of the day, when you sift through the saving face, the PR, and all that, am I wrong?
- [10:00:24 PM] Steven M (Genericke): yes or no
- [10:00:28 PM] Sera: Yes
- [10:00:39 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Then you've lost all of my confidence.
- [10:00:45 PM] Sera: Here is why you are wrong
- [10:01:04 PM] Sera: Right now, the worst enemy to you GH is literally these threads “defending” GH.
- [10:01:25 PM] Sera: GH is not a secondary map to us, by any stretch of the imagination.
- [10:01:50 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I disagree with you based on how Turbine has acted historically, and what I've heard form employees that were laid off.
- [10:01:51 PM] Sera: But at the same time, we don’t want players arguing over what the primary map of the game is, because we don’t have one. We support all maps. It’s why the art pass was done to all maps, including CC.
- [10:02:29 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I think the worst enemy to GH right now, is the esports team, and a good chunk of the competitive player base. Not me.
- [10:02:41 PM] derivatequill: I seem to recall a very common refrain that GD is the primary competitive map, which I still see periodicially even though I've quit the forums in disgust.
- [10:02:44 PM] Sera: These dramatic threads don’t help, and it’s turning people away from wanting to support this.
- [10:02:51 PM] derivatequill: From people on the forums.
- [10:03:27 PM] Sera: Yes, the eSports team is focusing more heavily on GD as a competitive map. But the development team doesn’t move based on that. Right now, sprint time is being devoted to addressing some map changes on GH.
- [10:03:34 PM] Sera: Which is why I asked for David’s feedback yesterday.
- [10:03:41 PM] Steven M (Genericke): That really worries me
- [10:03:42 PM] Steven M (Genericke): and here's why
- [10:04:19 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Annuvin made that thread with questions for GH feedback a long time ago. David posted that google doc in it, a long time ago. Asking for it now tells me that literally none of our feedback that we've worked so hard on in a constructive way has been considered for quite some time now.
- [10:04:52 PM] derivatequill: I'm not talking about the esports team, I'm talking about people on the forums stating without doubt or hesitation that GD is the primary competitive map. If you say there isn't one and don't want players arguing over it, don't let that sort of attitude stand.
- [10:05:55 PM] Sera: Annuvin made that thread to get those opinions knowing that we would eventually devote sprint time to it. We are now, and I wanted to make sure that your feedback was front and center, so I re-pulled the doc.
- [10:06:24 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I appreciate you doing that, but it's still worrying.
- [10:06:53 PM] Sera: I don’t know how having the team devote time to making the changes you guys want to make is worrying.
- [10:07:17 PM] Steven M (Genericke): That part's great. The fact that it didn't happen at all sooner is what's worrying.
- [10:07:38 PM] Sera: And as I told you before, they devoted a heavy amount of time to GD because it was the map that needed the most help, not GH.
- [10:07:59 PM] Sera: GD was in a terrible state with 70+ minute games, endless stalemates, etc.
- [10:08:08 PM] Sera: It’s gotten better, but it still needs work.
- [10:08:38 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Will the same work being put in to making GD better where it lacks, also be put into helping GH where it lacks - primarily in any esports or competitive scene?
- [10:09:27 PM] Sera: And, as I told you before, the eSports team will not be assembling tournaments for it, but they are clearly happy to help power community tournaments. If it continues to pick up, they may re-assess.
- [10:09:42 PM] Sera: We just don’t have the manpower, as much as we’d like to do it.
- [10:10:01 PM] Sera: And, after the layoffs, we have even less manpower than before.
- [10:10:47 PM] Sera: But, in the end, we, as an organization, bend to how the community reacts.
- [10:12:07 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I'm with Gen. I'm super worried about what you're saying, and it jumps into my head that you might be trying to suppress us again.
- [10:12:17 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I feel like that isn't true. If it were, wouldn't you have asked for our feedback like this, "we are putting sprint time in GH. Is there anything you want to update about the feedback you posted?"
- [10:12:18 PM] Laser Circus: what bothers me is the resources that were poured into GD rather than GH
- [10:12:28 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I might just be too skeptical
- [10:12:46 PM] Sera: You are being really skeptical.
- [10:12:48 PM] Steven M (Genericke): "And, as I told you before, the eSports team will not be assembling tournaments for it, but they are clearly happy to help power community tournaments. If it continues to pick up, they may re-assess." is probably the worst line you could've fed us just now
- [10:12:59 PM] Sera: I told you that before
- [10:12:59 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): But that's how I feel after how we've been treated by the community
- [10:13:25 PM] Sera: If you want better news, I’m planning to re-open Gotham Heights Ranked in two weeks for a ranked weekend.
- [10:13:39 PM] KoH_David: :O
- [10:13:46 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Can we duo?
- [10:13:53 PM] Sera: Same restrictions, still solo.
- [10:14:02 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I was under the impression that Turbine was planning on doing GH tournaments themselves like KotC. Like, you were trying and other people, so it wouldn't necessarily have to be a community effort.
- [10:14:08 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I don't wanna fight gen tho
- [10:14:14 PM] KoH_David: ^
- [10:14:23 PM | Edited 10:14:46 PM] KoH_David: gen really scary, turbine don't make me fight him D:
- [10:14:36 PM] Sera: I don’t know who gave you that impression, as it was something I am not aware of and did not say.
- [10:14:53 PM] Steven M (Genericke): You told me on reddit you tried to start up something but were given the thumbs down.
- [10:15:05 PM] Sera: I did, and I did get thumbs down.
- [10:15:11 PM] Sera: Which is why I said it wouldn’t be happening, lol.
- [10:15:15 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): You didn't reply to me on reddit ;(
- [10:15:20 PM] Sera: And now, with less people, I’m probably really gonna get the thumbs down.
- [10:15:30 PM] Sera: I mean, I lost FordyTwo. All of my website content? Gone.
- [10:15:33 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Asked for guide writers and I applied, no response
- [10:15:44 PM] Steven M (Genericke): But that's why I have the impression that it wasn't entirely up to the community with us begging you guys to help out here and there.
- [10:15:50 PM] Sera: I, actually, am still throwing people over to them.
- [10:16:29 PM] Sera: I stopped in my list right before NYCC and things went crazy. I lost time.
- [10:16:34 PM] Sera: And that’s my fault.
- [10:17:06 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): How do you get tickets to that? They sell faster than Super Bowl tickets
- [10:17:11 PM] Sera: But you guys are going to be handed off to MOBAFire for guide stuff. I still have to hand off you guys, dignitas, Team C, etc.
- [10:17:19 PM] Sera: Well I got my tickets through DC, so I am the worst person to ask.
- [10:17:39 PM] Sera: Oh, the awK guys too...
- [10:17:39 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Maybe you get an extra for a fellow Skook?
- [10:17:45 PM] KoH_David: lol
- [10:17:46 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Back to the topic at hand and why that line was especially bad.
- [10:18:11 PM] Steven M (Genericke): KotC was a tournament for GH once every three weeks. From that, you got 5 competitive GH teams. It's like, pretty close to something from nothing
- [10:18:33 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I don't know what this community tournament is going to have to do to make the esports team reaccess if like...that alone wasn't enough.
- [10:19:15 PM] Sera: Well, it’s being broadcast, has official casters, prizing, social media support.
- [10:19:26 PM] Sera: Like, Gen, I don’t know what else I can throw behind you guys that I don’t throw behind anything else.
- [10:19:33 PM] derivatequill: I'd like to know if there are thresholds that would be sufficient to get the esports team to organise tournaments.
- [10:19:41 PM] Steven M (Genericke): This isn't on you, it's more just like...
- [10:19:52 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): And to think it only took Davids incredible relationship with Akey and me to beg TooQuiet
- [10:20:02 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I don't see why the community tournament has to prove something to the esports team, when things have already been proven.
- [10:20:10 PM] Steven M (Genericke): What more do they need?
- [10:20:13 PM] Sera: Time
- [10:20:16 PM] Sera: Manpower
- [10:20:35 PM] Sera: Deep interest that rivals GD
- [10:20:49 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): The interest is there
- [10:20:57 PM] derivatequill: If we are going to prove _anything_ we need to know what the threshold values are!
- [10:21:03 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Is 60% of the player base, and 5 competitive teams that sprung up from a tournament for 40$ once every 3 weeks not deep itnerest?
- [10:21:04 PM] Sera: I hope the community tournament brings out that interest. I think it’s a great first step.
- [10:21:06 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Two teams for GH formed AFTER GH kotc was cancelled
- [10:21:55 PM] Laser Circus: We just want the executive decision that GH can be a thing
- [10:22:04 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I'd argue it not only rivals GD, but actaully surpassed it, as the lowest turnout a GH tourney had was 3 teams, but a CC and GD KotC regularly had 2 teams sign up - even before the only 2 teams allowed rule.
- [10:22:23 PM] Sera: Before there were more than 2 teams signing up, Gen.
- [10:22:30 PM] Sera: In these past few weeks, it got rough.
- [10:22:45 PM] Steven M (Genericke): But GH stayed at 3-4 when things were rough
- [10:22:51 PM] Steven M (Genericke): 3-5 sorr
- [10:23:04 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Who cares about GD kotc if ESL is giving out a 20k prize?
- [10:23:05 PM] Sera: GH was also dropped out of the rotation before things got really rough. I don’t know if those metrics would have stayed. Maybe they would have.
- [10:23:28 PM] Sera: Anyway, this is getting mostly off topic.
- [10:23:39 PM] Sera: My point is, I’m asking all of you to drop the GH vs. GD comparison.
- [10:23:45 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): GD has ESL and kotc. Why can't GH have anything that isn't community run?
- [10:23:51 PM] Sera: I’ve asked this of the other guys as well.
- [10:23:56 PM] Laser Circus: but these are aspects that lead to it
- [10:24:10 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Alright well here's the thing in my experience
- [10:24:21 PM] Steven M (Genericke): These people can take all the shots at GH that they want, even after they've had a talking to.
- [10:24:32 PM] Steven M (Genericke): The moment one of us responds, suddenly we're at fault, drama queens, etc.
- [10:24:42 PM] Steven M (Genericke): So should we drop it, I know these people are going to keep doing what they do.
- [10:24:47 PM] Sera: Yes
- [10:24:53 PM] Sera: And if they bring it up again, I’ll go after them.
- [10:24:57 PM] Steven M (Genericke): You've said KRashy has been warned. You talked to Sue, and yet they still go at it.
- [10:25:00 PM] Sera: But here’s the deal
- [10:25:05 PM] Sera: If you bring it up again, I’ll go after you.
- [10:25:08 PM] Sera: This goes both ways.
- [10:25:26 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I'm sorry but I don't believe you.
- [10:25:49 PM] Sera: Well, there is no belief. This is what I came to say.
- [10:26:06 PM] Sera: I want these fights to end from all sides.
- [10:26:13 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I do too
- [10:26:19 PM] Steven M (Genericke): and yet one side doesn't stop taking shots
- [10:26:30 PM] Steven M (Genericke): and then the moment we call them out on it, we're painted as villains.
- [10:26:45 PM] derivatequill: Okay, can you just tell me how you will respond to someone who just says "GD is the primary competitive map" in a forum post?
- [10:26:45 PM] Steven M (Genericke): It's exactly what happens with bullies in school.
- [10:26:53 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Take all the shots they want and it gets excused.
- [10:27:09 PM] Steven M (Genericke): And yet the moment something happens it's either dismissed, or they try and paint their victim as the attacker.
- [10:27:57 PM] Sera: If someone asks if GD is the competitive map, I will tell them that we build all of our maps to be competitive, and that we support all of our maps with development time.
- [10:28:08 PM] Sera: And that includes Coast City.
- [10:28:12 PM] derivatequill: Okay.
- [10:28:19 PM] derivatequill: What will you do when people don't ask but just state?
- [10:28:28 PM] Sera: I will correct them.
- [10:28:33 PM] derivatequill: Okay.
- [10:28:40 PM] Steven M (Genericke): and why has no one does this before?
- [10:28:43 PM] Sera: I have
- [10:28:49 PM] Sera: You guys never seem to give me credit for it
- [10:28:58 PM] Sera: This is the same line i’ve delivered over and over again.
- [10:29:06 PM] Sera: And it’s why I’m a little frustrated and angry.
- [10:29:29 PM] Sera: I’ve said it since last March, when the question was asked then.
- [10:29:35 PM] Sera: And I’ve kept saying it all the way through.
- [10:29:51 PM] Laser Circus: We will keep this in mind on our future endeavors :P
- [10:29:54 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): If you want a fresh voice on this situation, contact Stez
- [10:30:06 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): He was one of the top Dominion players
- [10:30:17 PM] derivatequill: I'll trust the situation for now. We're not in direct communication with Stez.
- [10:30:25 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): And was ignored and abandoned just like Gen
- [10:30:44 PM] Sera: One more thing.
- [10:30:51 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): He seems to have less anger in his posts than Gen as well
- [10:31:02 PM] KoH_David: lol
- [10:31:12 PM] KoH_David: this is somewhat true
- [10:32:17 PM] Laser Circus: We just want to know that Turbine stance on competitive and this is the first time I've heard it so it's refreshing
- [10:32:28 PM] derivatequill: Go on Celestrata.
- [10:33:03 PM] Sera: Sorry, Christina came over and I completely lost my train of thought.
- [10:33:06 PM] Sera: Oh, right, a path
- [10:33:19 PM] Sera: So, path of what to do if someone acts like a jerk:
- [10:33:26 PM] Sera: 1. Don’t make a dramatic thread in the forums.
- [10:33:32 PM] Sera: 2. Message Celestrata
- [10:33:42 PM] Sera: 3. Let her deal with it behind the scenes so it doesn’t turn into a 20 page thread of insanity.
- [10:34:21 PM] Steven M (Genericke): 4. It's just an opinion and I can't do anything about that.
- [10:34:33 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Last time we let you handle things the IC subreddit became GD posts only
- [10:34:54 PM] Sera: Is it because you guys got downvoted?
- [10:34:54 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): We can't say anything there now without being down voted into oblivion
- [10:35:06 PM] KoH_David: that's pretty much true
- [10:35:09 PM] KoH_David: i asked sue
- [10:35:15 PM] KoH_David: in a pm to sticky my thread for the tourney
- [10:35:16 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): It then gets "hidden" by reddit itself
- [10:35:18 PM] KoH_David: she said sure
- [10:35:25 PM] KoH_David: then a few ours later it was removed
- [10:35:31 PM] KoH_David: from being sticked
- [10:35:41 PM] Steven M (Genericke): They also bring on a new mod who has a post "less people should play GH and more should play GD"
- [10:35:43 PM] KoH_David: i don't see a reason to even post there
- [10:36:04 PM] Sera: Do you guys know why you keep getting downvoted?
- [10:36:05 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): The new more d has also ignored my multiple requests of adding a KoH flair alongside the other teams'
- [10:36:11 PM] Laser Circus: which is why we need some moderators who are impartial to IC and the maps
- [10:36:12 PM] Sera: Because it’s not because people don’t like Heights.
- [10:36:23 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Yes I do, and the explanation of "negativity" and all that is not why.
- [10:36:35 PM] Steven M (Genericke): But give it anyways because I'm sure that's what you think it is
- [10:36:39 PM] derivatequill: Perhaps, Workshop, you could provide an example of something obliterated in this way so we can see why it is downvoted.
- [10:36:57 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Its all deleted at this point
- [10:37:03 PM] derivatequill: Deleted?!
- [10:37:07 PM] Laser Circus: it is their actions that speaks volumes
- [10:37:24 PM] derivatequill: People delete stuff on reddit?
- [10:37:29 PM] Steven M (Genericke): Some guy posted a comment after DAvid about the pro player wiki whre David offered to add info about himself and other people form GH
- [10:37:37 PM] Steven M (Genericke): someone replies to him in a really negative and hurtful way
- [10:37:41 PM] Steven M (Genericke): the moderators do nothing
- [10:37:46 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): The best examples would be the original thread Mal had to specificly request be removed because Krashy turned it into am insult-orama
- [10:37:51 PM] KoH_David: and it's still there
- [10:37:52 PM] Laser Circus: I can back that up
- [10:37:55 PM] KoH_David: best mods 101 :p
- [10:37:57 PM] derivatequill: Link David?
- [10:38:03 PM] KoH_David: http://www.reddit.com/r/infinitecrisis/comments/2ihidj/infinite_crisi_pro_wiki/
- [10:38:28 PM] derivatequill: Ok GH isn't competitive, there ya go.
- [10:38:35 PM] Laser Circus: I would accept a kind refusal but things got out of hand
- [10:38:44 PM] KoH_David: we NEED a GH mod on the reddit because this mods past actions on reddit have shown their stances towards the map very clearly
- [10:38:58 PM] Steven M (Genericke): The comment "Its funny people still think GH is competitive. Get over yourself" had almost 5 upvotes before the community jumped down the guy's throat
- [10:39:02 PM] Steven M (Genericke): and still, the mods do nothing
- [10:39:05 PM] Steven M (Genericke): David was not negative
- [10:39:17 PM] Steven M (Genericke): That's genuine GH hatred right there, and the attitudes at work in that subreddit permitting it to exist.
- [10:39:28 PM] KoH_David: and the fact that sue liked a comment instead of taking action against krashy on reddit when he called us "whinny bitchs"
- [10:39:37 PM] KoH_David: just shows me she is not capable of being a mod
- [10:39:54 PM] Laser Circus: actions speaking volumes
- [10:40:07 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): She enabled him until you asked them both in private to stop
- [10:40:17 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Keyword: both
- [10:40:30 PM] Sera: Sorry, I got called away again.
- [10:40:31 PM] Steven M (Genericke): He also made an offhand remark asking for his mod status back
- [10:40:40 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I give it a few months. He'll get it back.
- [10:40:47 PM] Sera: Well, he’s gotta earn.
- [10:41:04 PM] Sera: anyway.
- [10:41:05 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): He didn't earn the caster position with his attitude
- [10:41:17 PM] KoH_David: neither did sue
- [10:41:52 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Turbine keeps rewarding these people that are harming the chances of GH's growth
- [10:42:04 PM] Sera: Back to topic… I’ve been doing CMing a long time. The dramatic posts… the intense need for GH to be considered “awesome” by people who don’t like it… it doesn’t lead to people being happy with what you do.
- [10:42:29 PM] Sera: This is why I want you guys to host tournaments, to show cool plays, to ignore the haters and keep doing what you’re doing and do it well… that stuff create a good community.
- [10:42:32 PM] derivatequill: I don't think the examples we cited had anything to do with awesomeness.
- [10:42:52 PM] Sera: But do you see what I’m saying?
- [10:43:12 PM] Sera: Creating drama threads in the forums doesn’t lead to people looking upon you in a happy, positive fashion. It leads to, “Oh, there’s KoH with their crazy posts again."
- [10:43:17 PM] derivatequill: Tell us just how good the community needs to be before esports picks up on it, and it may be attainable. I don't want to chase a nebulous objective.
- [10:43:28 PM] Sera: I don’t have that goal for you.
- [10:43:36 PM] Sera: It’s not a number, it’s just how things trend.
- [10:43:45 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): You say Turbine is there to respond to the community as a co., but no matter what evidence we provide, it seems to just be ignored.
- [10:43:51 PM] Steven M (Genericke): I have to leave to get my haircut.
- [10:44:03 PM] derivatequill: Functions, wavelet analysis, whatever. We can handle trends.
- [10:44:05 PM] Steven M (Genericke): This discussion has been insightful and has given us a lot to talk about. I look forward to seeing what the rest of you have to say.
- [10:44:05 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): No jeep the jew-fro growin
- [10:44:21 PM] Sera: Well, I have to go help get Kings of the Crisis set up for the evening, so I don’t have much longer.
- [10:44:50 PM] derivatequill: Maybe you could ask what that goal should be.
- [10:45:03 PM] Sera: But what I’m saying is, if someone drops an insult, let me know and I’ll look into it. Please, if anything, let me be the bad guy. Don’t create these types of threads. It doesn’t help.
- [10:45:12 PM] Sera: It really doesn’t help
- [10:45:15 PM] Sera: And it makes my job harder.
- [10:45:26 PM] derivatequill: Okay.
- [10:45:40 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): You'd be surprised how many times I get thanked for these threads
- [10:45:55 PM] Sera: Well I’m looking at the community as a whole, and it’s not good.
- [10:45:55 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): I get them on my stream and in games daily
- [10:46:06 PM] derivatequill: The existence of so many examples (which are very visible) is one reason you may not be getting that much credit.
- [10:46:11 PM] Sera: And I hope you’d believe me when I say that.
- [10:46:16 PM] Sera: Anyway, I need to go
- [10:46:26 PM] KoH_David: http://www.reddit.com/r/infinitecrisis/comments/2k19ju/friday_night_heights_is_starting_in_2_days/
- [10:46:33 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): Catch ya later
- [10:46:33 PM] KoH_David: let watch how this unfolds
- [10:46:35 PM] derivatequill: I believe you, but it would be great if you could quote other people on this directly.
- [10:46:45 PM] Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop): What vol said
- Kelby Klamfoth (Workshop)
- Laser Circus
- Steven M (Genericke)
- Sera
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