[23:12:00]	Shadow	Have we even established how much of an interplanetary "hotspot" Daeridune is?
[23:12:41]	Shadow	It wouldn't be too farfetched to explain depending on what this implies
[23:14:06]	Shadow	If anything though you can just make a new N if this is more trouble than it's worth, though I liked the character
[23:15:03]	Starr	I /think/ he was a prototype Zaiek
[23:16:08]	Keileon	We already have offworlders on Daeridune, and I think we established the planet was spacefaring
[23:16:38]	Keileon	Ah, yep
[23:16:52]	Keileon	SCT Daeova is capable of interplanetary travel
[23:17:23]	Keileon	So there's that
[23:17:42]	Starr	ah right its SCT
[23:17:48]	Shadow	It's not SCT
[23:17:53]	Starr	oh
[23:17:56]	Starr	..then what is it
[23:18:16]	Keileon	After
[23:18:21]	Keileon	iirc
[23:18:39]	Keileon	And not in any of our main timelines afaik
[23:18:53]	Shadow	Unknown. My guess is that it's in the near or far future from SCT, and the timeline is unknown as well. It could be Drei but it's most likely an entirely different timeline
[23:18:54]	Keileon	Or at least it's not Prime or Alter. Not sure about Drei.
[23:18:58]	Starr	yeah i guess he's probably a trader's son, like Zaiek is
[23:19:00]	Keileon	lel
[23:19:26]	Shadow	It's definitely neither Prime or Alter, though, so there's that
[23:19:52]	Keileon	Honestly it /may as well/ be Drei at this point
[23:20:19]	Keileon	Unless there's a reason to keep it separate from literally everything
[23:21:02]	Shadow	Tentatively? Maybe. But there's some... circumstances... surrounding AoF and I think it's best I keep the timeline ambiguous before definitely labeling it as Drei
[23:21:15]	Keileon	Alright
[23:21:32]	Starr	don't we need cerby here
[23:21:53]	Shadow	We aren't going to CP lol
[23:22:10]	Keileon	I will say this in case you're worried about interfering with other things in Drei: I only know SCT-era Shiveztel. After that is up to circumstances. Shiveztel forges his own fate.
[23:22:39]	Keileon	Cerberus still there?
[23:23:06]	Shadow	Oh no it's not about interfering with other things, it's actually the other way around. Developments could easily make AoF unfeasible to Drei
[23:23:15]	Keileon	Ah
[23:24:30]	Ziolang	lolDrei
[23:24:43]	Ziolang	I try not to think about that because >Kivorde-less Deveron
[23:24:45]	Keileon	What are you lol'ing at
[23:24:57]	Keileon	Hey man we had developments for that
[23:25:15]	Ziolang	Yeah, they'd just still be running around nuking planets
[23:25:18]	Ziolang	Space pirates
[23:25:22]	Starr	Drei doesn't exist in DR
[23:25:27]	Keileon	Plus Deveron/Euthora alliance
[23:25:43]	Keileon	starr it'd be the other way around
[23:25:47]	Ziolang	More of a "we won't nuke you if you watch our dergons"
[23:25:54]	Starr	Okay, other way around
[23:26:00]	Keileon	Also >space pirates
[23:26:07]	Keileon	>Sarkiri are also space pirates
[23:26:15]	Starr	>CrazE has space pirates
[23:26:17]	Keileon	That would be fun
[23:26:18]	Ziolang	Well, maybe more like space nazis?
[23:26:24]	Keileon	Craz had space police
[23:26:25]	Starr	You mean Grenians
[23:26:33]	Starr	No crazE has space pirates too
[23:26:38]	Starr	I swear to zhenn
[23:26:41]	Starr	shadow can vouch
[23:26:45]	Shadow	He does
[23:26:47]	Starr	see
[23:26:49]	Keileon	of course he does
[23:26:53]	Keileon	Well, still
[23:26:58]	Starr	Crysian-level space pirates
[23:27:02]	Keileon	We can't expect-- LOL
[23:27:12]	LordXGigaX	sighs
[23:27:20]	Keileon	--expect the entirety of the spacefaring manaverse to be good
[23:27:45]	Starr	I could never drum up anything for Drei
[23:27:48]	Keileon	Sarkiri actively kidnap/kill people, Vodera take over planets, Craz does whatever the fuck
[23:27:51]	Starr	not much of a point, really
[23:27:58]	LordXGigaX	I just don't care
[23:28:04]	Ziolang	Also that's a lot of time for Vodera to be running around nuking worlds... they'd probably have some kind of empire thing by now
[23:28:11]	Starr	so I just assume all my characters never...suffer in Drei, and lead normal lives.
[23:28:21]	Keileon	Zio do you realize how awesome thaat sounds
[23:28:25]	Keileon	*that
[23:28:31]	Keileon	Also I just remembered
[23:28:33]	Ziolang	... yes.
[23:28:41]	Ziolang	This is why I avoid Drei
[23:28:44]	Keileon	Euthora, Ceskion, and Ferona are all in the same star system
[23:28:47]	Starr	that means Vale/Emri have normal lives
[23:28:51]	Ziolang	Because I'd have to dev an /EMPIRE/
[23:28:53]	Starr	I'm happy
[23:29:01]	Starr	Hey crayon its not so hard
[23:29:05]	Keileon	Which means if Deveron has contact with Euthora, they'd run into the other two
[23:29:10]	Starr	80% is just politics
[23:29:14]	Keileon	You don't have to dev the entire empire lol
[23:29:15]	Ziolang	Also if- ^
[23:29:17]	Ziolang	er
[23:29:21]	Ziolang	@Kuda
[23:29:45]	Keileon	Ceskion's a very small world but I kind of think the Sarkiri would put up a hell of a fight
[23:29:57]	Ziolang	Granted a Vodera "empire" would just mean "planets with only Demons on it"
[23:30:16]	Keileon	either that or the sarkiri are hired like mercs to avoid said fight
[23:30:23]	Ziolang	Of course I'd have to figure out what happened to Hira-...
[23:30:25]	Ziolang	...
[23:30:26]	Ziolang	...
[23:30:28]	Ziolang	uh oh
[23:30:31]	Keileon	????
[23:30:55]	Ziolang	What if instead of Hirasu "melting" into Vorpal... He /mastered/ it.
[23:31:05]	Ziolang	He'd be a literal deity
[23:31:09]	Keileon	Niiice
[23:31:15]	Ziolang	crap
[23:31:46]	Ziolang	That would... imply that he had 100% mastered impery over the entire aether of Vorpal
[23:32:17]	Keileon	And what would that imply?
[23:32:25]	Ziolang	And if planets get vorpalized... he'd basically have absolute control
[23:32:36]	Ziolang	I'm... aaaaa how does this even
[23:33:06]	Ziolang	shadow help Hirasu's trying to take over the manaverse
[23:33:15]	Shadow	Good
[23:33:16]	Starr	why are all demons mean
[23:33:18]	Keileon	... Actually
[23:33:29]	Keileon	If he really wants to control the Manaverse
[23:33:32]	fryborg	[Jake] I, for one, welcome our new Vodera overlords
[23:33:38]	Starr	eyyy eeb
[23:33:39]	Ziolang	loleeb
[23:33:42]	Keileon	The reach that Ceskion and Ferona have would be /invaluable/
[23:33:45]	Starr	when did you get here
[23:33:56]	Ziolang	Of course this would beg the question
[23:34:02]	Ziolang	Of what Hirasu's motivation is
[23:34:11]	Starr	demon motivations
[23:34:12]	Keileon	Power corrupts~
[23:34:19]	Shadow	Create the Vorpalverse
[23:34:20]	fryborg	[Jake] I'd say I've been watching for the past... 10ish minutes, I guess
[23:34:22]	Starr	LMAO
[23:34:42]	Ziolang	>Vorpalverse
[23:35:02]	Ziolang	Isn't that literally just what I had before I grafted Deveron into the manaverse?
[23:35:11]	Keileon	We've come full circle
[23:35:16]	Ziolang	welp
[23:35:20]	Ziolang	Thank you, Drei
[23:35:21]	Shadow	Ouroboros must eat itself
[23:35:27]	Ziolang	Your destiny is to become the Vorpalverse
[23:35:28]	Starr	i like my worlds to be mana/eon please thanks
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[23:35:50]	Keileon	Starr why do you care it's Drei
[23:36:05]	Shadow	At the rate this is going Drei is going to be the doomed timeline
[23:36:06]	Starr	what if I do end up figuring out what i want to do on drei
[23:36:23]	Keileon	then you wll do so after submitting to your vodera overlords
[23:36:36]	Starr	no
[23:36:42]	Keileon	Or develop a defense
[23:36:47]	Shadow	That would make interesting conflict with the plot threads they've laid down, no?
[23:36:57]	fryborg	[Jake] What would happen to a Manacle if its planet were vorpalized?
[23:37:07]	Shadow	Asking the questions
[23:37:09]	Keileon	If you do figure it out? React to the situation.
[23:37:16]	Starr	It wouldn't connect with the others because Vorpal =/= Mana I'm guessing
[23:37:32]	Keileon	Wasn't Vorpal a form of Mana though?
[23:37:34]	Shadow	Vorpal IS LITERALLY repurposed Mana
[23:37:37]	Keileon	yeah
[23:37:45]	Starr	Then idk
[23:37:48]	Ziolang	yeah
[23:37:50]	Shadow	Very modified, reegineered Mana
[23:37:57]	Shadow	reengineered*
[23:37:57]	Ziolang	It's like... solid mana?
[23:38:12]	Keileon	Now I'm vaguely wondering
[23:38:13]	Ziolang	Aetheric matter
[23:38:15]	Ziolang	idek
[23:38:30]	Ziolang	It's very potent
[23:38:30]	Keileon	Shadow, do you happen to know if Phantasia would go the route of Prime or Alter in Drei?
[23:38:51]	Ziolang	>mfw Zio might not even exist in Drei
[23:38:59]	Starr	Good, Emma keeps her ability to walk
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[23:39:17]	Ziolang	She'll just be subject to an entire Demon empire
[23:39:31]	Starr	...so
[23:39:34]	Shadow	I'm guessing it'd be like Alter
[23:39:44]	Starr	she's just gonna lose it to some other demon anyway LMAO
[23:39:46]	Shadow	No way it's going like Prime without Shadow there
[23:40:10]	Keileon	Wait Shadow's not there in Drei?
[23:40:17]	Starr	Grenian+Syel empire combo would be a hell of a good defense
[23:40:28]	Shadow	... did you forget the entire precept of Shadow's route in Drei?
[23:40:32]	Ziolang	Tho alter has to deal with an aetheric eldritch abomination so
[23:40:35]	Starr	he goes to crysia
[23:40:36]	Starr	iirc
[23:40:36]	Keileon	I remember vague bits
[23:40:42]	Shadow	Yes, Starr got it
[23:40:44]	Keileon	I didn't remember if he left the planet
[23:40:52]	Starr	he gets to settle with his second waifu
[23:40:58]	Shadow	LOL
[23:41:00]	Keileon	alright then
[23:41:12]	Keileon	Now, without spoiling anything
[23:41:26]	fryborg	[Jake] Here's hoping that, if Shadow goes all that way for a waifu, he doesn't get
[23:41:26]	Keileon	Would the Alter route go /any/ different if the planet was Vorpalized
[23:41:29]	fryborg	[Jake] hung out to
[23:41:30]	fryborg	[Jake] Drei
[23:41:40]	Starr	LOL
[23:41:51]	Ziolang	>mfw the entirety of Drei is becoming vorpalized
[23:42:02]	Keileon	The /only/ reason I ask is because I know FM has to do with Malice
[23:42:09]	Starr	Drei sucks now thanks crayon pls youre killing me
[23:42:11]	fryborg	[Jake] Vorpalized Phantasia. Interesting
[23:42:15]	Shadow	Yes, a lot different. So different that I don't even want to think of the implications
[23:42:22]	Ziolang	^
[23:42:43]	Keileon	>mfw I'm getting people who didn't want to think about Drei to think about Drei
[23:42:46]	Shadow	So we'll leave that aside until I can actually reveal what's happening behind the scenes (Shadow FM)
[23:42:52]	Keileon	shadow fm
[23:43:45]	Starr	I'm only thinking about Drei now because it scares me now
[23:43:48]	Starr	redundancy
[23:44:02]	Keileon	The entirety of the Manaverse doesn't have to be Vorpalized
[23:44:20]	Keileon	ie I feel like the Vindrite pantheon would actively keep the Vodera away
[23:44:24]	Ziolang	I highly doubt one planet is going to take the entire verse so
[23:44:30]	Starr	Zhenn just nukes everyone to hell
[23:44:37]	Keileon	No I mean
[23:44:47]	Starr	"Ew vorpal touched my worlds. Lets nuke my worlds."
[23:44:50]	Keileon	Demon Empire vs nonvorpal planets
[23:45:15]	Keileon	I'm pretty sure we're slowly turning Drei into magic star wars
[23:45:17]	Starr	Well, in a plot sense if I were to DR in Drei, I wouldn't have much space to do plots without having it involve them just constantly fighting off demons
[23:45:21]	Keileon	or star trek
[23:45:22]	Starr	>Star wars
[23:45:36]	Starr	1-3 or 4-6
[23:45:37]	Ziolang	The plot of Drei is an MMO
[23:45:41]	fryborg	[Jake] Hirasu Starkiller
[23:45:42]	Keileon	LOL
[23:45:46]	Ziolang	Which side will you join?
[23:45:47]	Shadow	Consider the fact that Hirasu would be literally a god-tier character, Vodera could /actually fight off deities/, in theory
[23:45:55]	Keileon	Yes
[23:46:05]	Ziolang	Utilizing a form of mana that's /more/ potent
[23:46:42]	Keileon	Of course, we might see  more planets pulling a Rinul
[23:46:48]	Starr	exploding?
[23:46:54]	Keileon	And by that I mean in both senses
[23:46:59]	Ziolang	Basically, in theory, Hirasu could probably take on most Deities one-on-one. So worlds with pantheons he'd probably "save for later"
[23:47:02]	Keileon	Dimension bubbles and/or eploding
[23:47:12]	Keileon	*exploding
[23:47:13]	Starr	that sounded a lot like crazE
[23:47:58]	Shadow	Damn son, Drei took a very interesting turn all of a sudden
[23:48:05]	Shadow	Blame latenight dev
[23:48:38]	Keileon	If this happens I see Euthora having a weird alliance with Deveron because dergs, Ceskion attempting to ally while keeping its non-Vorpal status, and Vindrgard actively fighting the Vodera off
[23:49:06]	Starr	Mantua eons itself outta there
[23:49:21]	Ziolang	This is like... Manaverse-wide war
[23:49:23]	Keileon	Would be a good way to have Vindrite dragons do something other than destroy humanity every millennium
[23:49:30]	Keileon	... especially...
[23:49:39]	Starr	that's all I could pretty much call in this supposed situation
[23:49:44]	Keileon	Hey, how much of this would take place in actual /space/?
[23:49:46]	Ziolang	Because Vodera would have been doing this for /millennia/ by SCT
[23:50:39]	Keileon	Because Vindrgard has /also/ been perfecting life for millennia at SCT, and Draco Contriventus don't need air to survive
[23:50:57]	Starr	>Space dergs
[23:51:01]	Ziolang	Well Vodera use dimensional shenanigans to conceal Deveron and likely startered doing the same for worlds they conquer
[23:51:04]	Keileon	Vindrgard, even being isolated in Prime and Alter, would be at the forefront of the fight in Drei
[23:51:25]	Starr	Wouldn't this mean Crysia is basically fucked in this timeline?
[23:51:29]	Keileon	good
[23:51:34]	Starr	because >Over reliant on mana
[23:51:40]	Ziolang	Not necessarily
[23:51:43]	Starr	And Greniou not because >Not enough mana
[23:51:54]	Keileon	How would the fight /go/ anyway?
[23:51:59]	Keileon	Like, the actual battles
[23:52:01]	Ziolang	Let's see
[23:52:10]	Starr	gundams with swords
[23:52:20]	Starr	w-..why am I even entertaining that thought no
[23:52:21]	Keileon	I doubt that the Vodera can vorpalize an entire planet instantly right?
[23:52:29]	Ziolang	Well by SCT planets would be aware of the Voderan "Empire" by now and how they operate
[23:52:47]	Keileon	Wait this isn't Star Wars
[23:52:51]	Keileon	This is fucking Spore
[23:52:55]	Ziolang	So I imagine there'd be dimensional fail-safes to keep the Vodera from just... materializing and sweeping them away
[23:53:16]	Ziolang	Vorpalization is very rapid
[23:53:31]	Keileon	Like this is literally Spore
[23:53:55]	Ziolang	I've never played Spore
[23:54:02]	Shadow	<Starr>	Wouldn't this mean Crysia is basically fucked in this timeline? --- Probably, probably not. Just because you present a logical counter to something doesn't mean the other party will just stand there and take it
[23:54:14]	Shadow	Consider the fact that other worlds could develop some form of counterplay
[23:54:26]	Starr	I mean, they'll be replacing their /primary source of function/
[23:54:47]	Starr	If anything, if Crysia is in danger then expect like 25% of the Leeg of Faggots to show up at some point
[23:55:00]	Keileon	Vodera:  http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Grox
[23:55:17]	Keileon	Shadow
[23:55:31]	Keileon	"probably, probably not" is condradictory
[23:55:32]	Starr	sounds about right
[23:55:41]	Keileon	"maybe, maybe not" is what you mean :V
[23:56:24]	fryborg	[Jake] lol technicalities
[23:56:46]	Shadow	I mean, "replacing their primary source of function" is pretty much true for 90% of the Manaverse worlds. And once again, just because you have water and the enemy has fire doesn't mean you automatically win
[23:56:57]	Ziolang	^
[23:57:03]	Starr	if you're me then it does :P *shot*
[23:57:19]	Starr	Nooow a question that's probably answered
[23:57:35]	Starr	so do the people in mana-converted-vorpal worlds...die because of the conversion? Or
[23:57:43]	Ziolang	As Vorpal is [very crudely put] essentially just more potent Mana, some worlds probably wouldn't have a problem adapting
[23:57:57]	Ziolang	They can
[23:58:01]	Starr	Ah
[23:58:08]	Keileon	... In fact
[23:58:10]	Ziolang	Some do, most live
[23:58:22]	Starr	So they just turn into vorpal people?
[23:58:24]	Ziolang	It mostly just overloads the mana circuits for a long time
[23:58:28]	Shadow	They can die, but if they're /also/ converted into Vorpal entities then they'll adapt to Vorpal
[23:58:45]	Keileon	Let's throw both Euthoran and Vindrite dragons into the mix. One has scales that very easily absorb and retain Mana, the other actively eats Mana
[23:58:47]	Starr	Dunno if Vodera bother with converting the people
[23:58:57]	Keileon	What happens when they only have access to Vorpal?
[23:58:58]	Ziolang	They do
[23:59:09]	Starr	>tfw Saezer metal will lose its purpose
[23:59:11]	Ziolang	Vorpal is a form of mana, they'd be fine
[23:59:14]	Starr	there goes Greniou's business
[23:59:31]	Keileon	So Vindrite dragons may wel be one of the best weapons against the Vodera
[23:59:35]	Keileon	*well
[23:59:44]	Shadow	I don't think it's a matter of "wanting to convert something". You can't order a bomb to just destroy the environment
[23:59:52]	Ziolang	^
[23:59:55]	Shadow	Similarly, Vorpalization just... happens.
[23:59:58]	Ziolang	It vorpalizes /everything/
[00:00:03]	Starr	I'm just....imagining a vorpal Starrcast
[00:00:15]	Starr	Vorpal Starr with...Eon...I guess?
[00:00:22]	Starr	I mean without eon the sky serpent race are basically worms, so
[00:00:27]	Keileon	tbf they probably wouldn't be any different aside from Aether
[00:00:28]	Starr	idk how that would go
[00:00:33]	Shadow	^
[00:00:36]	Ziolang	The major reason why people don't auto-adapt to Vorpal is because Vorpal is synced to Degol
[00:01:20]	Starr	But then again, for me it wouldn't matter because they would all lead normal lives, so no combat specs to worry about
[00:01:24]	Ziolang	Vodera are used to how Vorpal works and how to command it. They subconsciously use Degol.
[00:01:38]	Keileon	How would Deveron interact with its "allies" then? Teach Euthorans Degol? I mean sound-wise it's not too different from Drakine
[00:01:47]	Ziolang	Vorpalizing would be like revoking a society's language and replacing it with an entirely new one
[00:02:01]	Shadow	It's not just about teaching
[00:02:04]	Ziolang	It's still a language
[00:02:09]	Ziolang	They're just not familiar
[00:02:12]	Shadow	There's a purely mental component involved with the activation of magic
[00:02:20]	Shadow	So they have to get used to /that/ as well
[00:02:24]	Ziolang	Yeah
[00:02:33]	Shadow	It's like suddenly learning that 1 + 1 = 3
[00:02:37]	Ziolang	^
[00:02:40]	Shadow	And it screws up /everything/
[00:02:49]	fryborg	[Guard Dog of Hades] In reference to the highlights for AoF a while ago (sorry, was making food) if we reboot it I probably wouldn't participate-- at least not as a main character
[00:03:04]	Starr	rip cerbs
[00:03:07]	LordXGigaX	oh so 3 + 3 = 19
[00:03:09]	Shadow	Aw, why?
[00:03:51]	Ziolang	[lol itd be like taking C++ away from a bunch of programmers and making them only able to use Java]
[00:04:02]	Shadow	[lmao programming jokes]
[00:04:27]	Starr	>programing jokes
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[00:04:53]	Shadow	she couldn't take it
[00:05:20]	Keileon	prolly ipod
[00:05:26]	Ziolang	And actually it's """"easier"""" to use Vorpal than mana. You can learn spoken "incantations" or "presets" and perform magic without fully understanding the mechanics behind it
[00:05:46]	fryborg	[Guard Dog of Hades] I'm just not that interested in CPing, and it doesn't feel like a good time for me, either. My willingness could easily change with time, but I don't see myself taking part if it starts up in the near future
[00:05:49]	Starr|Ipod	iPod yeah
[00:05:56]	Ziolang	Just as long as you're invoking the meanings of the words and attaching them to your mental desired outcome
[00:07:01]	Keileon	Sooooo basically Eragon magic
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[00:07:52]	Starr|Ipod	No blendy don't quit too
[00:08:19]	Ziolang	kinda
[00:08:58]	Keileon	Also hm
[00:09:18]	Keileon	This would actually give reason behind Vindrgard's attempt to perfect humanity
[00:09:40]	Keileon	A sort of "we've been preparing for something like this, now it's time to act on it"
[00:10:31]	Ziolang	I will say though
[00:10:50]	Ziolang	The battle against Vindrgard would've happened around the same time as Euthora
[00:11:00]	Ziolang	So we would need to know how long ago that was
[00:11:10]	Keileon	Wait why would it have been?
[00:11:39]	Keileon	It's just Ceskion/Euthora/Ferona in the same system. Vindrgard is faaaaar away.
[00:13:31]	Ziolang	oh ok
[00:16:40]	Keileon	This dev though
[00:17:11]	Ziolang	I think we should forget it ever happened
[00:17:15]	Ziolang	Set Drei down
[00:17:18]	Keileon	I love how Drei suddenly got very interesting
[00:17:23]	Ziolang	And back away reeeeeaaal sloooowwwly
[00:17:27]	Keileon	no
[00:18:04]	Keileon	Do you fear what you've created, Zio
[00:18:20]	Ziolang	The problem isn't that I fear it
[00:18:24]	Ziolang	But that I welcome it
[00:18:26]	Ziolang	T-T
[00:18:37]	Keileon	Embrace the dev, Zio
[00:19:01]	Keileon	You control what is very probably the ost powerful race n the Drei timeline
[00:19:06]	Keileon	*most
[00:19:15]	Keileon	. . .
[00:19:33]	Keileon	Shadow, what would Outside Observer Shadow do with all this happening?
[00:19:46]	Shadow	No idea
[00:19:55]	Shadow	I don't even know how his route actually /goes/
[00:20:07]	Shadow	He might not even be an Outside Observer
[00:20:20]	Keileon	Let's assume based on the other timelines: would he get involved? Run? Fight? Submit?
[00:20:56]	Keileon	For that matter I'm wondering if the /hierarchs/ would get involved
[00:22:26]	Shadow	Depends on the approach of the Vodera, I guess. It's most likely going to be "submit and die or fight and die" so probably just... run given the sheer scale of all of this. Not much he can do there.
[00:22:26]	Ziolang	>inb4 world vorpalized before Shadow is even A Thing
[00:22:37]	Shadow	However, if he has his Reality Marble.
[00:22:42]	Shadow	Then everything changes
[00:22:46]	Keileon	Oh???????
[00:22:48]	fryborg	[Jake] Generally my understanding is that it wouldn't be impactful enough on the scale of preserving reality that the Hierarchs would not even get involved at all
[00:23:18]	fryborg	[Jake] It's confined to a single timeline, so it's considered the "natural progression" of things. No need for the Hierarchs to obliterate or otherwise modify the timeline
[00:23:56]	Shadow	Because with his RM then he, by definition, has a chance of beating Hirasu
[00:24:22]	Keileon	He'd probably have to find Hirasu first
[00:24:29]	Shadow	Yes
[00:24:52]	Keileon	Also I'm loving how this is basically becoming Vodera empire vs some unnamed resistance force
[00:25:01]	Keileon	Because resisting by yoursef will get you killed
[00:25:07]	Keileon	*yourself
[00:25:48]	Shadow	And Eebit's just about right about Hierarchs, though there'd be some heavy debates about the subject. Whether it's even okay to let Mana be repurposed or just do the usual "watch the developments" approach and then choose a course of action
[00:25:55]	Keileon	Ah
[00:26:06]	Shadow	So there /might/ be some Hierarch involvement, but it wouldn't be a large-scale thing
[00:27:25]	Keileon	I can imagine if Shadow has his RM in Drei Vindrgard may just try to contact him and go "come over here, we can help you, you'll get yourself killed if you do this alone anyway"
[00:27:47]	Keileon	Which they wouldn't do in Prime or Alter unless something like /this/ was happening
[00:29:01]	Ziolang	Also worth noting is that due to Vorpal's nature and being synced to Degol, some Vodera could command the aether at a level not much lower than Hirasu methinks
[00:29:22]	Keileon	So basically the Vodera become their own gods
[00:29:29]	Shadow	Like I said, I don't really know about his route in Drei and maybe he doesn't even unlock his full potential there so his route is just ?????? at the moment
[00:30:00]	Ziolang	Potentially; it would be incredibly difficult and require extreme mental/physical/emotional/spiritual training
[00:30:27]	Keileon	It just reminds me of a quote I once attributed to the surviving Diclonii
[00:30:33]	Keileon	"we are our own gods"
[00:31:07]	Ziolang	And I imagine "finding Hirasu" wouldn't be too hard
[00:31:16]	Ziolang	Cause he'd probably be at the frontlines =x
[00:31:41]	Keileon	But that'd mean he'd also be surrounded by his troops
[00:31:43]	Ziolang	I mean, he is a Vodera after all.
[00:31:49]	Ziolang	His best troops
[00:31:53]	Ziolang	The nigh-god troops
[00:32:02]	Starr|Ipod	You sound like craze now
[00:32:09]	Shadow	Then yeah, in that hypothetical scenario Shadow would quite literally be the trump card. He'd just need a way to get Hirasu in the marble alone
[00:32:14]	Keileon	RM or not, I'm not sure Shadow could take down ffty high-tier Voderaa, multiple which may be godlike, by himself
[00:32:22]	Ziolang	Well
[00:32:26]	Keileon	*fifty
[00:32:37]	Ziolang	Actually Hirasu would probably have his best commanding their own invasion forces
[00:32:39]	Keileon	*Vodera
[00:32:54]	Ziolang	So there's that
[00:33:14]	Ziolang	Aaaa I don't like playing such high-power characters =<
[00:33:26]	Starr|Ipod	Why not?
[00:33:29]	Ziolang	dev y u do dis to me?
[00:33:33]	Starr|Ipod	Id kill to play some
[00:33:37]	Keileon	and yet, what happens to zio in prime
[00:33:42]	Ziolang	He dies
[00:33:46]	Ziolang	so
[00:33:50]	Keileon	I thought that was Alter
[00:33:50]	Shadow	Because absolute power is boring
[00:33:52]	Starr|Ipod	I thought that was alter
[00:33:53]	Keileon	w/e
[00:33:56]	Keileon	LOL
[00:33:57]	Starr|Ipod	Oh
[00:34:04]	Keileon	Starr I thought I accidentally doubled
[00:34:04]	Ziolang	Actually he lives in Alter
[00:34:07]	Starr|Ipod	Yeah, we thought that was alter
[00:34:09]	Starr|Ipod	What
[00:34:10]	Starr|Ipod	Lmao
[00:34:21]	Ziolang	 /Deveron/ dies in Alter and lives in Prime
[00:34:26]	Ziolang	The opposite is true for Zio
[00:34:26]	Keileon	o
[00:34:36]	Ziolang	Zio dies fixing Deveron in Prime
[00:34:38]	Keileon	Okay well
[00:34:43]	Ziolang	He lives to see it collapse in Alter
[00:34:46]	Starr|Ipod	Speaking of, what if DR existed in this drei and Emma does have a demon ship come true there
[00:34:47]	Keileon	I think this rules out AoF being in Drei
[00:34:59]	Keileon	because S has bigger things to concern himself with
[00:35:02]	Starr|Ipod	Just with some other demon
[00:35:06]	Starr|Ipod	Let's call him Bob
[00:35:35]	Ziolang	I could always move Vordera empire to its own timeline
[00:35:52]	Starr|Ipod	Demon Hisao
[00:35:57]	Ziolang	Cause otherwise it's the /epicenter/ of Drei
[00:35:59]	Starr|Ipod	Alright I think I've had enough milk
[00:36:08]	Ziolang	>Demon Hisao
[00:36:09]	Starr|Ipod	puts the milk down
[00:36:13]	Ziolang	what are you even?
[00:36:18]	Starr|Ipod	EXACTLY
[00:36:25]	Ziolang	LOL
[00:36:25]	Keileon	Zio, nothing wrong with that
[00:36:29]	Starr|Ipod	he'd probably be at either the highest or lowest of his class
[00:36:48]	Keileon	CoU and its shananigans are basically the epicenter of Alter
[00:36:53]	Keileon	*shenanigans
[00:36:57]	Starr|Ipod	One part, he's too cheerful and good, another...physically he can cripple ATK-based people
[00:37:00]	Starr|Ipod	Easily
[00:37:16]	Shadow	It's fine. I think it gives a lot of meat and background lore to Drei
[00:37:20]	Keileon	^
[00:37:28]	Keileon	Drei needed the dev
[00:37:30]	Ziolang	darn, I was trying to escpe
[00:37:33]	Ziolang	*escape
[00:37:39]	Starr|Ipod	It sounds pretty cool
[00:37:49]	Ziolang	so now I need to know...
[00:37:58]	Ziolang	Is Zio there and does he play any kind of role?
[00:38:13]	Starr|Ipod	I thought you said he doesn't exist in drei
[00:38:17]	Keileon	This even potentially gives Shiveztel a reason to exist after SCT lol
[00:38:19]	Ziolang	I said idk
[00:38:23]	Starr|Ipod	Oh
[00:38:44]	Ziolang	... if he did he probably wouldn't be named Ziolang
[00:38:49]	Ziolang	But Zyolen
[00:38:53]	Ziolang	welp
[00:39:19]	Keileon	pls, by all rights Careodry's name should be Ceriodry
[00:39:27]	Ziolang	I'll make him some front-lines grunt who dies in his first real battle
[00:39:39]	Ziolang	gg zyo
[00:39:57]	Starr|Ipod	Cardry
[00:40:00]	Starr|Ipod	Knows ur sins
[00:40:03]	Ziolang	Yeah but with Degol not being lost, there would be no reason for Zio's name to be mispelled
[00:40:12]	Keileon	cardry the local fish
[00:40:21]	Ziolang	space fish
[00:40:28]	Starr|Ipod	[cue face]
[00:40:34]	Starr|Ipod	Proud acomplishment
[00:40:39]	Starr|Ipod	Accomplishment
[00:40:47]	Keileon	Careodry plays a big role in Shiveztel too. Wonder what he thinks about all this.
[00:41:31]	Keileon	Actually better question. Does he or Shiveztel /care/? Euthora's in a good position in Drei.
[00:41:55]	Starr|Ipod	Emri picks up Shadow and goes "let's tap in to your potential to beat up demons ok? Ok." And becomes his mentor
[00:42:39]	Keileon	... Then again
[00:42:58]	Keileon	In technicality, Shiveztel is /descended from/ the dergs Deveron put on Euthora
[00:43:08]	Starr|Ipod	No Starr stop thinking about a demon Hisao
[00:43:23]	Starr|Ipod	I don't even think the boxers have a baby
[00:43:26]	Starr|Ipod	Navy
[00:43:28]	Starr|Ipod	GOSHRIEN
[00:43:32]	Starr|Ipod	VODERA
[00:43:33]	Ziolang	Euthora might have to be Vorpalized tho
[00:43:39]	Ziolang	just sayin
[00:43:42]	Keileon	Why's that?
[00:43:53]	Starr|Ipod	>ally?
[00:44:14]	Keileon	I thought the idea was "watch our dergs and we won't Vorpalize you"
[00:44:18]	Ziolang	Not the best plan to leave an entire race of vorpal beings on a mana planet
[00:44:31]	Keileon	Do remember they assimilate and adapt
[00:44:40]	Ziolang	And I doubt a race bent on vorpalizing the manaverse would let one go free
[00:44:56]	Ziolang	They just... wouldn't slaughter the inhabitants...?
[00:44:59]	Keileon	Would they if it meant having Euthora as a willing ally?
[00:45:31]	Keileon	I mean I'd think that like
[00:45:34]	Ziolang	It really depends on Hirasu's motives
[00:45:42]	Keileon	If they can't instantly vorpalize a planet
[00:45:55]	Keileon	It'd be worthwhile to have allies that can utilize Mana
[00:46:42]	Ziolang	I'll have to learn more about why their even doing this in the first place to understand what they are and aren't willing to do
[00:46:47]	Keileon	lel
[00:46:59]	Shadow	Don't you think it'd be the same thing to Vorpalize them without killing anyone and actually teaching them how to use Vorpal
[00:47:38]	Keileon	Might work, yeah
[00:47:57]	Keileon	For some reason my brain went "but they can't use mana if they can use vorpal"
[00:48:00]	Keileon	Although
[00:48:06]	Keileon	>Later generations
[00:48:27]	Keileon	It might be more worthwhile letting them keep their Mana and otherwise keep a close eye on them
[00:48:57]	Shadow	I don't know what you're implying with later generations
[00:49:02]	Ziolang	>inb4 Euthora is allowed mana as a test sunject
[00:49:13]	Ziolang	*subject
[00:50:14]	Keileon	Okay like I'm not sure how the circuits work but eventually the ability to use normal Mana would be "bred out" in favor of optimizing Vorpal and we'd get a case of Season 0 Zio. What are they going to do if the Vodera run into a Mana planet they have trouble Vorpalizing?
[00:50:32]	Keileon	Euthora could very well just be a source of shock troops
[00:51:01]	Ziolang	They'll just keep Euthora and its mana under a microscope for research purposes
[00:51:08]	Ziolang	lol idk
[00:51:21]	Keileon	Like I don't mind either way, I'm just thinking in terms of practicality
[00:53:14]	Shadow	What I mean is what good would it do to use Mana in that situation? They just want to Vorpalize everything. Throwing Mana at it really changes nothing because you can have the same effect with Vorpal entities--just without the Vorpalization
[00:54:20]	Keileon	If they can't Vorpalize a planet right away, they would benefit from having Mana-using troops to subdue the locals until the planet CAN be Vorpalized
[00:55:24]	Shadow	Except that they can already use Vorpal without having to be in a Vorpal environment. It's literally the same thing as just sending Vorpal-users in that case
[00:56:19]	Keileon	I thought there was an issue with suddenly dumping a Vorpal user into a Mana environment, though I suppose even in Zio's case he adapted
[00:57:05]	Ziolang	By now they'd be used to how that works. Plus, unlike Zio, they don't have Kivorde mucking everything up
[00:57:19]	Keileon	Ahh right I forgot that detail
[00:57:22]	Shadow	There would be an issue but they've been doing this for millenia
[00:58:04]	Shadow	Another point in favor would be the fact that they cannot stay too long in a Mana environment as they risk "normalization" but that takes a lot of time
[00:58:05]	Ziolang	They would probably use objects like Rilan's spear for Vorpal cycles as well
[00:58:41]	Ziolang	Plus if Euthora is surrounded by Vorpal, wouldn't it eventually adapt anyway?
[00:59:06]	Keileon	They're Vorpalizing the planets, not the... do they need to Vorpalize space too?
[00:59:30]	Shadow	There's Mana in space, so
[00:59:31]	Keileon	Or does space not have aether
[00:59:32]	Keileon	o
[00:59:34]	Keileon	okay
[00:59:42]	Keileon	now how would that work
[00:59:56]	Shadow	Literally nothing changes visibly
[00:59:58]	Shadow	lol
[01:00:07]	Keileon	Like would space normalize the planets, or the other way around, or...
[01:00:09]	Keileon	oh
[01:01:07]	Ziolang	You know they probably have to do some kind of containment field thing or dimensional shenanigans in order to vorpalize a planet
[01:01:32]	Shadow	Besides, unless Vorpal is "infectious" or something, it'd be Mana that would normalize Vorpal, even if you got a space full of Vorpal surrounding a Mana planet
[01:01:52]	Shadow	So a containment field would prevent that, yeah
[01:05:59]	Keileon	So how much Mana would be needed to normalize a converted planet?
[01:07:05]	Shadow	Not much, all things considered. Technically even a single potent of Mana could normalize an entire planet if given enough time
[01:07:27]	Keileon	Then I think I know how Vindrgard would be fighting the Vodera Empire
[01:08:19]	Keileon	Because, do remember, Vindrite dragons are made out of what boils down to crystal Mana. It's just a matter of getting through the containment field.
[01:08:19]	Shadow	But obviously this would take ridiculously long; bigger quantities would increase the efficiency. You could even craft magic designed to accelerate or deliberately cause this process
[01:08:48]	Shadow	Yeah, it's a logical conclusion, which is why I said that Crysians weren't necessarily fucked
[01:08:49]	Shadow	lol
[01:09:01]	Shadow	You can counter a counter
[01:09:53]	Keileon	Because Vindrite dragons are fucking /powerful/ creatures, even aalone, and even once you kill it I don't think the Vodera would initially realize the dragon's there to normalize the planet
[01:10:08]	Keileon	After a while they'd figure it out, but until then...