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  1. [9:13:18 AM] *** Ircluzar added maiddog, mensch-maschine12345678, rikerz99, vinesauce, wsevelix, x8bitrain ***
  2. [10:00:24 AM] Ircluzar: Hello everyone
  3. [10:00:32 AM] Myákki: hi
  4. [10:00:38 AM] Maid Dog: Hello
  5. [10:00:52 AM] BitRain: hey
  6. [10:01:24 AM] Ircluzar: i will wait another 20 min before starting okay?
  7. [10:01:53 AM] BitRain: alright
  8. [10:02:04 AM] Weinerless Steve: hi
  9. [10:10:36 AM] BitRain: unfortunately veeshush can't make it because he doesn't trust Skype enough to want to use it for anything because of monitoring apparently, plus he doesn't have a PC at the moment.
  10. [10:12:28 AM] Myákki: oh ok
  11. [10:12:54 AM] Weinerless Steve: that's too bad
  12. [10:13:17 AM] Weinerless Steve: who are you myakki? I don't recognize the name
  13. [10:13:34 AM] Myákki: i'm cosmocortney
  14. [10:13:41 AM] Weinerless Steve: oh, that makes sense
  15. [10:15:17 AM] Weinerless Steve: and who's menschmachine?
  16. [10:17:27 AM] Myákki: it's me cosmocortney. mensch-maschine12345678 is my skype id and myákki the displayed name/pseudonym
  17. [10:19:13 AM | Edited 10:19:25 AM] BitRain: Ego was supposed to be here to but he said he wasn't interested in using Skype either and preferred teamspeak. He might show up but I doubt it
  18. [10:19:50 AM] Weinerless Steve: he's not online on steam
  19. [10:21:02 AM] Ircluzar: So hello everyone, i'm ircluzar, you guys mainly know me from the vinesauce forum. i'm the one who made the RTC.
  20. [10:22:13 AM] Ircluzar: I have called you all today because i want to share with you a project of mine and i strongly invite you suggest anything at any time if you feel like it.
  21. [10:22:38 AM | Edited 10:26:04 AM] Ircluzar: I invited you particularly for one reason, we all share some kind of love for breaking video games
  22. [10:23:49 AM] Ircluzar: all of you have greatly contributed in this thing with is "videogame corruption" and from what i know of this genre of activity, this community which grew up on vinesauce is probably the first one in the world.
  23. [10:24:38 AM] Ircluzar: so the exercice i wanted to invite with you today is like a big brainstorm about a big project in this area
  24. [10:25:02 AM] Weinerless Steve: there might have been small pockets years ago, but really before vinesauce it was just independent people doing nes/snes for the most part so yeah
  25. [10:26:10 AM] Myákki: will the brainstorming be documented somewhere (vinesauce sub forum that can be accessed by members only or something)?
  26. [10:26:16 AM] BitRain: ie, AgonizedCandle, I guess vinesauce popularized it
  27. [10:26:27 AM] Ircluzar: this whole project will be entirely public
  28. [10:26:34 AM] Ircluzar: everything related to it will be open source
  29. [10:26:59 AM] Weinerless Steve: agonizedcandle found ps1 corruptions on his own, but that was after my whole n64 thing and the community started to bud
  30. [10:27:52 AM] BitRain: Oh, I thought it was much older than that, I should have asked him to join in
  31. [10:28:24 AM] Ircluzar: so yes, today the Tools we have for corrupting/breaking video games are quite limited. There all the corrupt.exe-style programs, the are gui programs like vsrc, vinecorrupt, and rtc
  32. [10:28:24 AM] Weinerless Steve: I've never seen him participate in the forums, but it may not have been a bad idea
  33. [10:29:01 AM] Ircluzar: there are other Tools like cheatengine which are meant to modify games but not to destroy them
  34. [10:30:42 AM] Ircluzar: when i created RTC, i had simplicity in mind. i wanted to create a program that can break the games and not have the user learn a lot of things before doing it. After that, i've started working on the glitch harvester, a tool for saving, backuping and sharing corruptions.
  35. [10:31:05 AM] Ircluzar: i've been thinking for months now about having some kind of a glitch harvester for Windows games
  36. [10:31:40 AM] Ircluzar: but i think the project has to be bigger than that
  37. [10:31:55 AM] Ircluzar: it has to be the ultimate solution that does absolutely everything
  38. [10:32:09 AM] Maid Dog: Depending on how your RTC glitch harvester is set up it should be a plug in and work sort of deal. Under windows you have API functions that can get blocks of read, write or executable memory and modify their contents. In fact, I have a chunk of code I can send as a reference that looks for read/write sections.
  39. [10:32:31 AM] Ircluzar: that would be great
  40. [10:33:02 AM] Ircluzar: i've read cosmo's tutorial for cheat engine
  41. [10:33:35 AM] Myákki: i have more ideas like that btw
  42. [10:33:46 AM] Ircluzar: it gave me other ideas, so i started searching for a way to leverage that kind of real-time corruption for Windows games, and i've found out that cheat-engine actually exists in Library form
  43. [10:34:41 AM] Ircluzar: by actually automating the corruption via a specifically made interface and using the cheat-engine lib, this could dramatically reduce the delay between corruptions can be done
  44. [10:35:12 AM] Ircluzar: heck, it would even be possible to make an auto-corrupt function for it like i did for RTC but programs are most likely going to crash
  45. [10:35:23 AM] Ircluzar: this is why we need something that doesn't exist yet
  46. [10:35:28 AM] Maid Dog: Here's a pastebin of some code from a project I did a few years ago. FindInMemory is basically what you want, but instead of finding a value you'd just find the boundaries of a block of memory with the restrictions you want on it. http://pastebin.com/TBFr603V
  47. [10:35:34 AM] Ircluzar: we need a way to make Windows games savestates
  48. [10:35:47 AM | Edited 10:35:52 AM] BitRain: woah okay, that sounds really complicated and difficylt
  49. [10:35:50 AM] Ircluzar: i know it sounds crazy and shit but there's gotta be a way
  50. [10:36:06 AM] Ircluzar: i've been reading the VMware thinapp documentation
  51. [10:36:21 AM] Ircluzar: there might be a way to leverage that to create application savestates
  52. [10:37:12 AM] Weinerless Steve: even without corruption, the ability to make save states on a windows game would be pretty huge
  53. [10:37:32 AM | Edited 10:37:51 AM] BitRain: sounds like you'd have to make your own small VM for each program, or create some kind of wrapper for the program to copy the current state of the RAM (for that program) into some kind of file form
  54. [10:37:57 AM] Ircluzar: there's got to be a way
  55. [10:38:20 AM] Weinerless Steve: if you have to do that with each program though it quickly becomes a long process
  56. [10:39:25 AM] Ircluzar: okay, lets put Windows programs savestates aside for one moment
  57. [10:39:42 AM] Ircluzar: I've had another idea for corrupting games but in a non-destructive way
  58. [10:40:08 AM] Ircluzar: i've been thinking "how do you alter files while they're being read?"
  59. [10:40:26 AM] Ircluzar: usually, the operating systems lock the files when they're being read
  60. [10:40:34 AM] Maid Dog: Hook fread
  61. [10:41:00 AM] Ircluzar: i've came with something that might be a simpler solution
  62. [10:41:07 AM] Ircluzar: a virtual machine
  63. [10:41:10 AM] BitRain: virtal ram?
  64. [10:41:13 AM] Ircluzar: no
  65. [10:41:29 AM] Ircluzar: it's an iSCSI link corruptor
  66. [10:42:06 AM] Ircluzar: by looping your files through an iSCSI server and corrupting the data on the fly as it's being read by the server
  67. [10:42:13 AM] Ircluzar: calculating the right checksum
  68. [10:42:36 AM] Weinerless Steve: so where does a virtual machine come into that
  69. [10:42:44 AM] Ircluzar: freeNas
  70. [10:42:47 AM] BitRain: Sounds good, I've never heard of iSCSI links
  71. [10:42:54 AM] BitRain: but what about performance?
  72. [10:42:57 AM] Ircluzar: is an open source FreeBSD-based NAS system
  73. [10:43:05 AM] Ircluzar: it'S very lightweight, can be ran on a toaster.
  74. [10:43:40 AM] Weinerless Steve: I was thinking earlier too that if this is run on a virtual machine, maybe the BSODs will go to that instead of the actual computer
  75. [10:44:02 AM] BitRain: Probably, I assume games will be run with wine or something?
  76. [10:44:16 AM] Ircluzar: no, the games will be run in the actual host system
  77. [10:44:17 AM] Ircluzar: on windows
  78. [10:44:36 AM] Ircluzar: but they'll be ran from the virtual hard drive connected to the virtual machine through the iSCSI link
  79. [10:44:57 AM] Ircluzar: the virtual machine is like a hard-drive proxy in that situation that alters data in the iSCSI link
  80. [10:45:23 AM] Maid Dog: How are you going to know what files to change and where to change them?
  81. [10:45:54 AM] BitRain: So Game data on the VHD>Windows while the VM intercepts the memory being read?
  82. [10:46:31 AM] Ircluzar: yes it'S that kind of thing
  83. [10:47:00 AM] Ircluzar: that's the tricky part is that freenas must be modified to listen to network port and execute commands that will be sent to it
  84. [10:47:58 AM] Ircluzar: and yes, the freenas mod has to be able to somehow differenciate which file is which feed in order to corrupt specific areas of it
  85. [10:48:07 AM] Ircluzar: that's the iSCSI solution
  86. [10:48:22 AM] BitRain: and the VHD acts like a real HDD?
  87. [10:48:34 AM] Ircluzar: Windows doesn't know the difference
  88. [10:48:44 AM] BitRain: so kinda like mounting an ISO
  89. [10:48:50 AM] Ircluzar: no
  90. [10:48:52 AM] Ircluzar: it's a network link
  91. [10:48:58 AM] BitRain: alright
  92. [10:49:41 AM] Ircluzar: it's not a vhd, there is a virtual hard drive Inside of the vm and that's where the things have to be put but Windows connects to the drive through another protocol. other than that, this hard drive appears to Windows like any other hard drive.
  93. [10:49:59 AM] Ircluzar: but yeah
  94. [10:50:11 AM] BitRain: understood
  95. [10:50:31 AM] Ircluzar: okay, another thing i'd like to talk about is the blacklisting of addresses
  96. [10:51:06 AM] Ircluzar: i'd like to ask maid dog to briefly explain how does the blacklisting works in vinecorrupt for opcodes
  97. [10:51:48 AM] Ircluzar: i know it might be different in every system but in general, is it a list of adresses or does it applies algorithms for detection?
  98. [10:52:28 AM] Weinerless Steve: maid dog are you still around?
  99. [10:52:45 AM] Ircluzar: well he'll be back i'm certain
  100. [10:52:53 AM] Maid Dog: yep
  101. [10:53:42 AM] Ircluzar: can you give a very brief explaination of how opcodes protection works in vinecorrupt?
  102. [10:54:49 AM] Maid Dog: Well, in VC I had to go to the game documentation and see what opcodes the system used. Then I'd just check which opcode I'm reading in the file and also check around it if the boundary wasn't hard set and if it matched a bad one I'd skip it.
  103. [10:55:14 AM] Maid Dog: You can't do that for windows though because if a file reads in an ini file with important settings changing randomly is almost guaranteed to mess it up.
  104. [10:55:23 AM] Ircluzar: yes
  105. [10:55:30 AM] Ircluzar: but the concept can be used for anything
  106. [10:55:41 AM] Ircluzar: memory blacklisting is the next step
  107. [10:55:55 AM] Maid Dog: What do you want to blacklist?
  108. [10:56:32 AM] Ircluzar: i want to make a multi-layer blacklist using external templates
  109. [10:56:55 AM] Ircluzar: for example, your opcodes protection for nes
  110. [10:57:04 AM] Ircluzar: it's a list of blacklisted adresses
  111. [10:57:20 AM] Ircluzar: but what if there could be blacklisted values for specific games?
  112. [10:57:37 AM] Ircluzar: blacklisted values for a specific mapper
  113. [10:58:03 AM] Ircluzar: and finally, what if there were blacklisted values for ram
  114. [10:58:09 AM] Ircluzar: and any kind of volatile memory
  115. [10:58:16 AM] Maid Dog: That would be very time consuming if it's anything like the NES which actually has documentation. If you're doing that for arbitrary games, many of which don't have any documentation at all, then you're depending on the community to reverse engineer it for you.
  116. [10:58:21 AM] Ircluzar: exactly
  117. [10:58:33 AM] Ircluzar: that's why we need to have a program that probes the games
  118. [10:58:35 AM] Maid Dog: Memory areas can be blacklisted based on permissions easily though
  119. [10:58:48 AM] BitRain: do we know that the the isci link reads the data as addresses?
  120. [10:59:23 AM] Weinerless Steve: the program would definitely be necessary, if every game has to be probed manually the new corruptor would be time consuming and inaccessible to most
  121. [10:59:37 AM] Ircluzar: i'm talking general here bitrain, not just for the iscsi thing. any kind of system, any kind of addresses, any kind of memory spaces
  122. [11:00:08 AM] BitRain: right
  123. [11:00:12 AM] Ircluzar: the new corruptor has to come with a way to automatically probe the games generate blacklists out of them
  124. [11:00:22 AM] Maid Dog: I think that's a massive task
  125. [11:00:34 AM] Ircluzar: that's where the cloud comes in. this probing thing has to be connected
  126. [11:00:37 AM] Weinerless Steve: yeah, it certainly sounds like it
  127. [11:01:23 AM] Weinerless Steve: it's all possible, but now we're talking two different programs, one of which has to be run through a virtual machine and all that as well]
  128. [11:01:29 AM] Ircluzar: imagine a cloud-generated blacklist that filters out every dangerous values from memory adresses.
  129. [11:01:45 AM] Ircluzar: the probe probably would need to run in a virtual machine.
  130. [11:01:49 AM] Maid Dog: What's the plan for automatically probing games? Every game can be wildly different from the last and unless you have some specialized algorithm for reverse engineering I don't think it's going to get anywhere fast
  131. [11:02:16 AM] Ircluzar: exactly. this probe thing is something that should be reserved for small games
  132. [11:02:28 AM] Weinerless Steve: then what do we do with large games
  133. [11:02:37 AM] Ircluzar: we don't have computers powerful enough to do that
  134. [11:02:48 AM] BitRain: I guess the blacklisting could apply to game engines as well as games alone? I've noticed similar patterns in unity games in cheat engine
  135. [11:02:51 AM] Weinerless Steve: what do you define as a small game then?
  136. [11:03:00 AM] Ircluzar: Under 32mb
  137. [11:03:21 AM] Ircluzar: 32mb would take a lot of ressources to probe
  138. [11:03:35 AM] Ircluzar: the program has to run the game, automate it though a script
  139. [11:03:55 AM] Weinerless Steve: there's not a ton of games that fit that criteria, but I can understand the limit
  140. [11:04:11 AM] Weinerless Steve: would larger games still be possible to corrupt, just not probed?
  141. [11:04:24 AM] Maid Dog: I don't think this is a probable solution at all. Memory changes throughout the game and addresses can be different on every run of the game unless you find a process to find static pointers to data. Also, what if a changed value works but would crash later down 100%? You'd have to play the entire game with the changes to know if they're safe and it's not reasonable.
  142. [11:05:27 AM] Ircluzar: yes but the point here is to find the values that automatically make the game crash
  143. [11:06:04 AM] Maid Dog: That should be easy, any non-allocated or executable mapped area of memory will do that eventually
  144. [11:06:26 AM] Maid Dog: read/write should be find unless you read an improper value but checking for that will be difficult
  145. [11:06:40 AM] Ircluzar: think about smb1 for a second
  146. [11:06:47 AM] Ircluzar: the nes has 2kb of ram
  147. [11:07:08 AM] Ircluzar: it will take 2048 iterations to probe the ram
  148. [11:07:28 AM] Ircluzar: the result will be a list of values that killed the game
  149. [11:07:50 AM] Ircluzar: it's not a perfect solution at all
  150. [11:08:00 AM] Ircluzar: it's just another layer of protection
  151. [11:08:09 AM] Weinerless Steve: seems doable
  152. [11:08:14 AM] Ircluzar: now think about n64, which has 8mb of ram
  153. [11:08:27 AM] Ircluzar: 4mb if you don't have the expansion pack
  154. [11:08:43 AM] Ircluzar: it would take over 8 million iterations
  155. [11:09:23 AM] Ircluzar: but you know how crashy the n64 is when you alter the ram, it will crash very often
  156. [11:09:58 AM] Weinerless Steve: from my experience with N64 decompressed, the second half of the rom usually doesn't contribute to crashes
  157. [11:10:12 AM] Ircluzar: hmm, good to know
  158. [11:10:17 AM] Ircluzar: just this cloud-generated blacklist thing could finally open the door to the true n64 corruptions everybody has been dreaming of
  159. [11:11:17 AM] BitRain: so the cloud information collects information when a game crashes and blacklists memory addresses based on the amount of times a game crashes with the same memory addresses being corrupted when the game crahes?
  160. [11:11:52 AM] Ircluzar: yeah, the cloud system will compute the data that it receives from the client in order to construct a common blacklist for games
  161. [11:12:00 AM] Weinerless Steve: when I did SM64 decompressed, the ROM went to 17FFFFF, and everything after 1000000 or so did really do much of anything unless the first half was corrupted
  162. [11:12:58 AM] BitRain: problem is decompressed roms are game specific
  163. [11:13:21 AM] Ircluzar: just so you know guys, i'm taking notes of all of these ideas and i'll make a Google document with all of the ideas from this brainstorm
  164. [11:13:30 AM] Weinerless Steve: true
  165. [11:13:46 AM] Weinerless Steve: the other problem with decompressed ROMs is that there's very few of them
  166. [11:14:02 AM] Weinerless Steve: I only know of 3 for N64
  167. [11:14:47 AM] Maid Dog: I wish N64 decompression would become a thing. I think that in itself would really make corruption a lot easier.
  168. [11:15:05 AM] Maid Dog: But yeah, only a handful of popular games have it
  169. [11:15:25 AM] Weinerless Steve: the only ones I know of are sm64, majora's mask, and oot
  170. [11:15:44 AM] Maid Dog: Goldeneye had one as well
  171. [11:15:45 AM] BitRain: it only applies to N64 as well I since PS1 is based around certain filetype compressions that are pretty obscure, we went through this a lot on the vinecorrupt thread
  172. [11:15:48 AM] Maid Dog: And so did superman 64
  173. [11:16:18 AM] Ircluzar: Another thing that the new corruptor has to include is an Advanced file manager for Windows games
  174. [11:16:54 AM] Ircluzar: an utility that shows you the entire file tree of a game's folder, with options for every files
  175. [11:17:06 AM] Ircluzar: an integrated backup/restore system
  176. [11:17:17 AM] BitRain: what about steam games? because they won't run without the steam client
  177. [11:17:46 AM] Ircluzar: well if you can corrupt steam games with a normal corruptor i don't see why this couldn't be possible but on a larger scale
  178. [11:18:23 AM] Ircluzar: and the biggest problem with file corruptions in Windows games is that you always need to restore a backup of the game every time you need to uncorrupt it
  179. [11:18:58 AM] BitRain: yeah, but you're saying you want to move them to a separate HDD, steam needs to know where the game is being run from in order for it to work, so unless you add that virtual HDD to the list of drives where games will be located you'd need a steamapps folder to put steam games into
  180. [11:19:10 AM] Ircluzar: install steam on it
  181. [11:19:29 AM] BitRain: won't it reset though?
  182. [11:19:34 AM] Ircluzar: i've been running steam from an iSCSI hard drive for years.
  183. [11:19:50 AM] Ircluzar: and that's the beauty of it
  184. [11:20:07 AM] Ircluzar: because it's corrupted on the transport layer, it doesn't actually corrupt the files on the drive
  185. [11:20:46 AM] Ircluzar: it's basically a client that tells a server "okay, next time you open this and this file, you will alter these and these bytes in the Stream"
  186. [11:21:34 AM] BitRain: alright, so the drive doesn't remove everything once it's closed?
  187. [11:22:05 AM] Ircluzar: it doesn't need to
  188. [11:22:56 AM] Weinerless Steve: so then there's no reason this can't work with the steam client
  189. [11:23:25 AM] Ircluzar: oh yeah, and in an ideal world, all of this should be accessible via overlay menus with your controller
  190. [11:23:26 AM] BitRain: I was under the impression you had to move the game to the drive every time you wanted to corrupt
  191. [11:24:04 AM] Ircluzar: no the virtual machine just serves as a storage space but is actually the part that simulates the files being corrupted
  192. [11:25:02 AM] Weinerless Steve: unless there's something being done in real time, a controller won't be of much help here
  193. [11:25:13 AM] Ircluzar: well, changing settings
  194. [11:25:26 AM] BitRain: yeah, I get that. I was going to suggest a RAMdisk as a storage method but that sucks
  195. [11:26:19 AM] Ircluzar: also think about this if someone finds a way to make proper game savestates
  196. [11:26:40 AM] Ircluzar: this starts to be really similar to what you can get on an emulator
  197. [11:27:43 AM] Ircluzar: and i know that some of you are thinking like "this is beyond possible" but it's what we are here for. we're setting goals for what the next big corruptor could be
  198. [11:27:54 AM] Ircluzar: actually, what i was thinking about was not to be one big corruptor
  199. [11:28:14 AM] Weinerless Steve: from what you've been saying, it sounds like it's 3 different programs
  200. [11:28:17 AM] Ircluzar: but instead, a suite of Tools, much like office is a suite of office tools
  201. [11:28:35 AM] Ircluzar: yeah, i see all of this as different programs that works in synergy together
  202. [11:29:18 AM] Weinerless Steve: that would make this a much bigger project than RTC, I would think
  203. [11:29:22 AM] Ircluzar: yes
  204. [11:29:29 AM] Ircluzar: RTC is actually just a small part of it
  205. [11:29:49 AM] Ircluzar: it's the Nes to N64 part
  206. [11:30:03 AM] Ircluzar: and i've been thinking about a way to make an external RTC.
  207. [11:30:18 AM] Weinerless Steve: what do you mean external
  208. [11:30:32 AM] Ircluzar: an RTC that isn't a mod but instead hooks itself to other emulators by accessing their memory pools
  209. [11:31:01 AM] Ircluzar: i've heard some people have done corruptions by running the emulator through cheat-engine
  210. [11:31:20 AM] Weinerless Steve: it seems like Bizhawk emulates most consoles already, what would the benefit of that be
  211. [11:31:36 AM] Ircluzar: gamecube, wii, ps2
  212. [11:31:39 AM] Ircluzar: ds
  213. [11:31:41 AM] Weinerless Steve: true
  214. [11:32:13 AM] Ircluzar: if there is a way to know where the memory pools start and end, there's a way to target them directly then
  215. [11:32:19 AM] Ircluzar: instead of breaking the emulator's logic
  216. [11:32:38 AM] Weinerless Steve: everything 6th gen+ besides DS would be uncharted territory, besides some extremely basic gamecube stuff done by ego with vinecorrupt and maybe others it hasn't really been done yet
  217. [11:32:51 AM] Ircluzar: yes
  218. [11:33:08 AM | Edited 11:33:11 AM] BitRain: [11:32 AM] Ircluzar:
  219.  
  220. <<< instead of breaking the emulator's logicThis is a very big issue with corrupting emulated games with CE
  221. [11:33:38 AM] Weinerless Steve: I talked to ego when he was doing it with vinecorrupt, other than a couple textures he didn't get much and everytime he did one it would take a few minutes to compile so it was excrutiating
  222. [11:34:04 AM] Weinerless Steve: I didn't attempt it myself though
  223. [11:34:08 AM] Ircluzar: yes, if memory could be targetted in these systems, magical things could probably happen
  224. [11:34:17 AM] Ircluzar: you know, the big problem with RTC is the N64 engine. it's shit.
  225. [11:34:22 AM] Ircluzar: really, it's crap
  226. [11:34:34 AM] Maid Dog: Speaking of GC and Wii, Dolphin should be easy to do savestate corruption on
  227. [11:34:40 AM] Ircluzar: yes
  228. [11:34:43 AM] Maid Dog: you can borrow their decompression function from the source code
  229. [11:34:54 AM] Weinerless Steve: is N64 an emulator issue or an issue with the system itself?
  230. [11:34:57 AM] Ircluzar: corrupting savestates could also be a big thing
  231. [11:35:12 AM] BitRain: Don't know if you've been following Citra's development but 3DS corruptions could well be a thing in the future
  232. [11:35:16 AM] Ircluzar: bizhawk uses internal cores for every emulator. The n64 core is crap.
  233. [11:35:32 AM] Weinerless Steve: I've seen people try save state corruption on doom with interesting results
  234. [11:35:33 AM] Ircluzar: i think we'd get better results by hooking into pj64 with an external RTC than keeping to do real-time n64 corruptions on bizhawk
  235. [11:35:40 AM] Weinerless Steve: minecraft too, but those were less exciting
  236. [11:36:35 AM] Weinerless Steve: but with cheat engine corruptions instead of standard ones, gamecube and such has already been done well
  237. [11:37:01 AM] Ircluzar: we have to push in that direction
  238. [11:37:16 AM] Weinerless Steve: have you come up with any solution for the BSODs experienced with cheat engine corruptions?
  239. [11:38:05 AM] Ircluzar: well, we could try to find why and blacklisting these dangerous adresses but other than that and encapsulating this into a virtual machine i don't know what to do with this
  240. [11:38:05 AM] Myákki: games don't seem to be well corruptble through dolphin using cheat engine. so as i explained in this thread about the wii/gcn save state corruptor we'd need to implement dolphin's savestate compression code into our tool. you can find the code online but I wasn't able to write any program with it due the lack of programming knowledge..
  241. [11:38:30 AM] Ircluzar: hmm
  242. [11:39:01 AM] Ircluzar: savestate corruption is definitely a must for that, it's a simple way to make semi real-time corruption with these systems
  243. [11:39:09 AM] BitRain: does the savestate format have any documentation?
  244. [11:39:29 AM] Myákki: yes
  245. [11:40:17 AM] Myákki: https://searchcode.com/codesearch/view/36593856/
  246. [11:40:58 AM] BitRain: wow, commented and everything, nice
  247. [11:41:44 AM] Maid Dog: Alternatively, if you make an RTC for dolphin you can simply hook the CompressAndDumpState function and not compress it before dumping
  248. [11:43:15 AM] Ircluzar: If the memory space for the systems is always at the same adress in dolphin, the external RTC could hook directly in it and alter the values from the outside.
  249. [11:44:03 AM] Rikerz: Hello everyone, sorry I am late... something came up this morning. I thought I would be back in time, but it took much longer than I thought.
  250. [11:44:19 AM] Ircluzar: it's okay, thanks for joining us !
  251. [11:44:27 AM] Myákki: if it won't be at the same location i think the game's vram could be found by a simple comparision
  252. [11:44:36 AM] Myákki: when should i share all my ideas?
  253. [11:44:37 AM] Ircluzar: probably
  254. [11:44:48 AM] Weinerless Steve: hi rikerz, thanks for coming by
  255. [11:45:15 AM] Ircluzar: i think that savestate corruption could probably also be done with pj64
  256. [11:45:47 AM] Weinerless Steve: I've never tried it, but it's worth a shot
  257. [11:46:08 AM] Scott Davies: I'm also here, totally not hours late
  258. [11:46:20 AM] BitRain: save states on PJ64 copy the majority of the game to a file in the state it was in once saves right?
  259. [11:46:45 AM] Weinerless Steve: we've got 2 new people here now, so a summary of what's been brought up so far might not be a bad idea
  260. [11:47:01 AM] Scott Davies: I can read through the chat, it's okay
  261. [11:47:14 AM] BitRain: I'm making a graphical representiation of what we have planned
  262. [11:47:20 AM] Ircluzar: great
  263. [11:47:23 AM] Weinerless Steve: okay, cool
  264. [11:47:33 AM] Ircluzar: i've started to update the Google document i was making for it
  265. [11:47:53 AM] Ircluzar: okay, there is another domain that hasn't been touched yet
  266. [11:48:02 AM] Ircluzar: i've been reaserching on it this week
  267. [11:48:06 AM] Ircluzar: dos games corruptions
  268. [11:48:20 AM] Ircluzar: the dos emulators to have savestates to my knowledge
  269. [11:48:52 AM] BitRain: I know android versions of DosBoxes do
  270. [11:48:58 AM] Weinerless Steve: those could probably even be done with vinesauce corruptor, all you'd need is to find the right starting point
  271. [11:49:42 AM] Ircluzar: the ram corruption can't really be done with the vinesauce corruptor
  272. [11:50:02 AM] Ircluzar: i think we'll need to make a new interface, something super generic that fits with every system
  273. [11:50:33 AM] Ircluzar: so if it has to be linked across the different Tools that will be included in this suite, it should support them all
  274. [11:50:56 AM] Ircluzar: like, the interface part of the corruptor should be the same no matter what you're doing
  275. [11:51:15 AM] Ircluzar: instead, you choose what you want to corrupt and how
  276. [11:51:33 AM] Ircluzar: you could corrupt single files with it but with big games like half-life, you might need a file manager
  277. [11:51:41 AM] Maid Dog: Ram corruption can be added on a per process basis but there would be no protection on it
  278. [11:51:58 AM] Maid Dog: Maybe could protect executable space with x86 ASM but that would be a pain
  279. [11:52:39 AM] Ircluzar: maybe there could be zones with lower probabilities
  280. [11:52:45 AM] Ircluzar: depending on their classification
  281. [11:53:25 AM] Weinerless Steve: with a game like half life, that has a whole system of files, would the person corrupting be picking a specific file to corrupt or do you just select the game? I remember with HL2 you had to pick the right file
  282. [11:53:34 AM] Weinerless Steve: with the vinesauce corruptor
  283. [11:53:50 AM] Ircluzar: okay, let's picture it
  284. [11:53:59 AM] Ircluzar: imagine some kind of Windows explorer with a file tree
  285. [11:54:05 AM] Ircluzar: like you see every file in every folder
  286. [11:54:05 AM] Weinerless Steve: okay
  287. [11:54:14 AM] Ircluzar: every file has a checkbox on the left for activation
  288. [11:54:27 AM] Ircluzar: it you select the file, on the right panel you get corruption options for this particular file
  289. [11:54:42 AM] Ircluzar: if you select multiple files, you can create a group, and apply the same algorithm to all of them
  290. [11:55:15 AM] Rikerz: for the RAM thing, if you can record which address are read for what purpose in a game, you can make a map of dangerous areas (read as an argument to a jump, etc.) and non-dangerous areas (textures, sound, color, etc.)
  291. [11:55:36 AM] Ircluzar: true
  292. [11:56:52 AM] BitRain: if that's the case, HL2 has two different versions, one has all it's assets in a compressed vpk format, and the other has lose files that can be accessed easily, so applying the corrupter to one vpk with scripts in it could just crash the game instantly, whereas with the lose file version you've got TONS of files to select, so the multi selection thing would work well.
  293. [11:58:07 AM] BitRain: the problem is many new games tend to go for the compressed inaccessible obscure custom file type for asset storage, I guess that's where the address blacklisting comes in.
  294. [11:58:12 AM] Ircluzar: there should be a plugin interface with this
  295. [11:58:29 AM] Ircluzar: so plugins could be made for automatic uncompression and recompression of such containers
  296. [11:58:44 AM] BitRain: oh man
  297. [11:58:46 AM] Ircluzar: for example, a vpk plugins for uncompressing and recompressing
  298. [11:59:41 AM] BitRain: fortunately VPKs already have extraction tools, but newer games like CoD ghosts have yet to be reverse engineered despite being out for so long, so that's gonna be really hard
  299. [12:00:31 PM] Weinerless Steve: even if we're limited to games that are 5 years old or more, and I'm just making up a number, that's still a big step foward
  300. [12:02:09 PM] Ircluzar: if you make a good set of file corruption, the whole thing should be saved to a file to be then reloaded by someone else
  301. [12:02:21 PM] Ircluzar: everything must have checksums in order to make sure the file versions match
  302. [12:02:33 PM] Ircluzar: and also a way to ignore it
  303. [12:03:53 PM] Weinerless Steve: with most windows games, I don't think file version will be a huge issues
  304. [12:04:12 PM] Weinerless Steve: especially if we'll be using steam, since everything is updated automatically
  305. [12:05:02 PM] Ircluzar: okay, so we have a good idea of where the corruption should go
  306. [12:05:30 PM] Ircluzar: with these Tools, corruption should be possible on a greater number of systems
  307. [12:05:40 PM] Ircluzar: and on older systems, that should make it more stable
  308. [12:05:52 PM] Myákki: wait, can i share my ideas, now? (i didnt want to interrupt)
  309. [12:05:57 PM] Ircluzar: yes
  310. [12:06:02 PM] Ircluzar: go ahead
  311. [12:06:03 PM] Myákki: ok
  312. [12:06:04 PM] Myákki: All ideas below would be working for any 3d game
  313.  
  314.  
  315. 01. corrupting constant floating point values (specific ones)
  316. Scan the RAM for floats like: 0x3f800000, 0x40000000, 0xbf800000,
  317.  
  318. 0xC1800000, 0x47A39011, ...
  319.  
  320. also specify the memory range. Example: 0x00000000 - 0x10400000; 0x28000000
  321.  
  322. - A0400000.
  323.  
  324. allow to edit the values. (as shown in my cheat engine corruption thread)
  325. ______________
  326.  
  327. 02. corrupting constant floating point values 2 (values between)
  328. scan the RAM in a specific memory range for values between 0xXXXXXXXX and
  329.  
  330. 0xYYYYYYYY.
  331. example: 0x3F000000 and 0x40400000
  332.  
  333. (as shown in my cheat engine corruption thread)
  334. ______________
  335.  
  336.  
  337. 03. ASM corruption
  338. scan the memory for assembly instruction like: fmul, fadd, fsub, stf(s/d),
  339.  
  340. lf(s/d) in a specific memory range.
  341. change choose what floating point register to change (aim float, fx or fy)
  342. ______________
  343.  
  344.  
  345. 04. boolean corruption
  346. scan the memory for 8, 16 or 32bit boolean values like: 0x01, 0x0001 or
  347.  
  348. 0x00000001 and change them to 0x00(00(0000))
  349. ______________
  350.  
  351. 05. text corruption
  352. scan the RAM for text (ascii/unicode) and change anything of it, including
  353.  
  354. font size, font color (if available)
  355. ______________
  356.  
  357. 06. object corruption
  358. scan the ram for a huge array of floats we can assume to be coordinates of a
  359.  
  360. 3d model. then load a .obj to deform the ingame object to our custom object
  361. ______________
  362.  
  363.  
  364. 07. texture corruptoin
  365. scan the ram for a loaded texture. then load a custom .bmp. (I think that
  366.  
  367. will look really messy since we don't know the resolution of the loaded
  368.  
  369. texture)
  370. [12:07:17 PM] BitRain: there's the whitelist for ya
  371. [12:07:28 PM] Ircluzar: well that's a lot of good ideas
  372. [12:07:33 PM] Ircluzar: mainly alhorithms
  373. [12:07:45 PM] BitRain: also, here's the graphical representation, I may have got some details wrong but it's just a summary http://i.imgur.com/4UIu05q.jpg
  374. [12:08:08 PM] Scott Davies: Just Cause 2, good example
  375. [12:08:16 PM] Maid Dog: I skimmed that and I can say searching for ASM instructions isn't going to be pretty since they're unaligned
  376. [12:08:17 PM] BitRain: there's supposed to be a line connecting them :(
  377. [12:08:29 PM] Weinerless Steve: better resolution on the pictures might be nice too
  378. [12:08:41 PM] Weinerless Steve: just nitpicking though, the info looks good
  379. [12:08:59 PM] Scott Davies: About the same resolution as my Just Cause 2 stream, GG Bitrain
  380. [12:09:16 PM] Myákki: yes.. since the asm codes would be different between cpu architectur. but good and easy for gcn and wii games
  381. [12:09:52 PM] BitRain: you mean console CPU architecture or PC CPU architecture?
  382. [12:10:39 PM] Ircluzar: well any cpu architecture i guess
  383. [12:11:02 PM] Myákki: i mean that the architecture between amd, intel x86 and intel x64 would have different asm instructions in the ram. but the asm instructions for all ppc based processors should be the same (ps2/3, gcn, wii)
  384. [12:11:38 PM] BitRain: would that be what's causing BSODs then?
  385. [12:11:43 PM] Ircluzar: all the x86 cpus have similar instructions, x64 is just x86 with extra 64-bit asm codes
  386. [12:12:31 PM] Myákki: for pc games, blue screens may be possible
  387. [12:13:04 PM] Weinerless Steve: on the cheat engine thread, the only people I've seen complain of blue screen have been corrupting pc games
  388. [12:13:16 PM] Ircluzar: corrupting the video driver is always a thing that can happen
  389. [12:13:42 PM] Weinerless Steve: the forum is down right now, so I can't confirm that it's pc games only
  390. [12:14:04 PM] Ircluzar: vinesauce has had a lot of downtimes lately.
  391. [12:14:10 PM] BitRain: What happened both times was the sound broke I think, also corrupting dolphin game me a BSOD once
  392. [12:14:32 PM] Weinerless Steve: yeah, the forums especially seem to go down once a week or more
  393. [12:15:06 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'm not sure why though, that would be a question for dire or maybe vinny
  394. [12:15:45 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'm sure if it was an easy fix, it'd be fixed by now
  395. [12:15:45 PM] BitRain: he did say he was busy today so he might be doing something with it
  396. [12:15:52 PM] Ircluzar: maybe
  397. [12:16:07 PM] Ircluzar: any other ideas?
  398. [12:16:26 PM] Weinerless Steve: hmm
  399. [12:16:44 PM] Ircluzar: let's say it another way, what are the problems we currently face when we try to corrupt video games and how do we fix that?
  400. [12:16:46 PM] BitRain: I was thinking about UI design
  401. [12:17:35 PM] BitRain: crashing and freezing for PC, the freezing can just be resolved with a task killer
  402. [12:17:47 PM] Ircluzar: yes, like the autokillswitch i made for rtc
  403. [12:18:01 PM] Ircluzar: the might be a way to make a program like that but that works on every program
  404. [12:18:24 PM] Ircluzar: the problem is that how do you know if the program is frozen or is just lagging a lot while trying to load something?
  405. [12:18:30 PM] Weinerless Steve: there's always task manager for that
  406. [12:19:07 PM] Weinerless Steve: you can tell if you tab out and the program is not responding, but that's only true for freezes and not locks
  407. [12:19:08 PM] Ircluzar: in the case of RTC, the autokillswitch talks with rtc and receives a heartbeat. if the heartbeat is broken, it will kill the program depending on the detection level you've put to it
  408. [12:19:21 PM] Ircluzar: but it's not an exact science and a few people proved that there are issues with that
  409. [12:19:45 PM] Ircluzar: but so far, a heartbeat has given me great results
  410. [12:20:22 PM] Weinerless Steve: something just as instantaneous as the rtc killswitch would be nice, but it would be more difficult to make
  411. [12:20:39 PM] Ircluzar: every emulator would have to be modded to send a heartbeat
  412. [12:20:47 PM] Ircluzar: and you can'T do that with Windows games
  413. [12:21:04 PM] Weinerless Steve: with pc games you'd just have to use task manager or something of the sort
  414. [12:21:45 PM] Weinerless Steve: the only thing I could think of would be to make a program that automatically kills the windows process that selected if it's stop responding
  415. [12:22:38 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'm not very knowledgeable in programming so I don't know if something like that would work
  416. [12:23:50 PM] BitRain: with autohotkey you can make a script that automatically kills a program when it reads "Not Responding" in the window header
  417. [12:24:10 PM] BitRain: I guess you could set a delay to a script like that then kill the program
  418. [12:24:39 PM] Ircluzar: thats a good idea
  419. [12:24:49 PM] Ircluzar: actually this could be integrated directly in the corruptor
  420. [12:25:20 PM] Ircluzar: if the corruptor is detached from the program then there's no risk to put it there
  421. [12:25:45 PM] Maid Dog: You can do the title check with the Windows API
  422. [12:26:06 PM] Weinerless Steve: yeah, and if you integrate it it would be easy for it to know what program it should be checking for responsiveness
  423. [12:26:51 PM] Weinerless Steve: and if you do that, and have the heartbeat detector as well, it may make sense to have a different tab for windows games like vinecorrupt has
  424. [12:27:32 PM] Ircluzar: the "not responding" string has to be variable because of people's os language.
  425. [12:27:46 PM] Weinerless Steve: true
  426. [12:30:14 PM] Ircluzar: i'd like to talk about something completely different
  427. [12:30:18 PM] Ircluzar: hardware corruptions
  428. [12:30:42 PM] Ircluzar: do you guys think it would be worth looking that way?
  429. [12:30:58 PM] Ircluzar: is there something we can achieve with hardware corruptions that we can't using emulators?
  430. [12:31:08 PM] BitRain: how and what would we corrupt?
  431. [12:31:21 PM] Ircluzar: videogame consoles
  432. [12:31:32 PM] Ircluzar: via flash carts
  433. [12:31:44 PM] Ircluzar: i have read about wifi sd cards
  434. [12:31:57 PM] Ircluzar: they can be reverse engeneered to pull files instead of pushing them
  435. [12:32:05 PM] BitRain: now this is getting advanced
  436. [12:32:09 PM] Ircluzar: could be put in a flash cart
  437. [12:32:31 PM] Ircluzar: pulls a rom from a server via wifi every time the cartridge boots
  438. [12:32:41 PM] BitRain: I've done it with a tablet by opening it up and applying 5v to different connectors and pcb links but nothing with software
  439. [12:32:48 PM] Ircluzar: the server generates the corrupted rom on the fly
  440. [12:33:06 PM] Weinerless Steve: I've had the dumb idea of corrupting a virtual machine in my head for a while now, this makes me think of that but your idea is a little more sophisticated
  441. [12:33:09 PM] Ircluzar: what about old consoles? like nes, snes and n64?
  442. [12:33:12 PM] BitRain: updated version for all those nitpickers http://i.imgur.com/oc9tgtp.jpg
  443. [12:33:39 PM] Weinerless Steve: looks good bitrain
  444. [12:34:17 PM] Weinerless Steve: although I'm nitpicking again but why does it go right to left
  445. [12:34:40 PM] BitRain: STEVE
  446. [12:34:40 PM] BitRain: NO
  447. [12:35:00 PM] Rikerz: just mirror it
  448. [12:35:04 PM] Rikerz: oh nvm
  449. [12:35:06 PM] Rikerz: the text
  450. [12:35:23 PM] Weinerless Steve: sorry lol
  451. [12:35:55 PM] BitRain: I think for NES and SNES you'd need to create some kind of connector to solder on to the pins where the cartridge would go, then the corrupter would input different things via USB or something but I don't think that's worth it for older stuff, but because PS2 has USB I think it would be doable
  452. [12:36:18 PM] BitRain: or solder something to the cartridge itself
  453. [12:36:36 PM] Rikerz: Ircluzar, I don't think there is much we can get out of it that we can't get out of emulators, and whatever we can get out of it would be limited to people who had the hardware
  454. [12:36:51 PM] Ircluzar: you're right
  455. [12:37:05 PM] Ircluzar: but it could be something
  456. [12:37:13 PM] BitRain: also there's the risk of bricking the console
  457. [12:37:19 PM] Ircluzar: for recent consoles yes
  458. [12:37:27 PM] Ircluzar: i don't think you can brick an nes tho
  459. [12:37:51 PM] Weinerless Steve: my issue with this, and why I've never tried virtual machine corruptions, is yes it's possible but what's it going to accomplish besides a bunch of errors
  460. [12:38:13 PM] Ircluzar: i have a nes powerpak and i did put a bunch of rom corruptions on it, i tried it on the nes
  461. [12:38:24 PM] Ircluzar: the results were pretty much the same as in bizhawk
  462. [12:38:28 PM] Ircluzar: except that it felt unreal
  463. [12:38:42 PM] BitRain: really? wow, I thought the emulator was much different
  464. [12:38:49 PM] Ircluzar: bizhawk is super accurate
  465. [12:38:57 PM] Ircluzar: that's why it takes more ressources than regular emulators
  466. [12:39:24 PM] Ircluzar: but let's go deeper shall we?
  467. [12:39:32 PM] Weinerless Steve: I've always been fond of bizhawk since I saw it in RTC
  468. [12:39:36 PM] Weinerless Steve: go on though
  469. [12:39:54 PM] Ircluzar: there exists connectors to interface with the nes
  470. [12:40:07 PM] Ircluzar: using the maintenance connector Under it
  471. [12:40:19 PM] Ircluzar: it might be possible to alter the nes memory using this
  472. [12:40:54 PM] Ircluzar: this is extremely far fetched tho
  473. [12:41:00 PM] Ircluzar: this whole wifi nes corruption thing
  474. [12:41:06 PM] Ircluzar: but stays plausible
  475. [12:41:18 PM] Weinerless Steve: I don't know a thing about old console hardware so I can't really input anything
  476. [12:41:54 PM] BitRain: the NES is really basic compared to SNES so I guess you could do a lot with it, since it's easy to figure out
  477. [12:42:06 PM] Ircluzar: okay guys, i'm done with the Google Docs sheet, here's the link to it https://docs.google.com/document/d/10_i1tERmO9QxV-T9uQ8drzq0sCIrbcElMRak5T4zQs0/edit?usp=sharing
  478. [12:42:11 PM] Ircluzar: feel free to add anything to it
  479. [12:43:00 PM] Weinerless Steve: if you're going to make this public, you might want to make it private and make us all editors
  480. [12:43:11 PM] Ircluzar: that's what i did
  481. [12:43:15 PM] Weinerless Steve: ok good
  482. [12:43:20 PM] Ircluzar: it's private and you can all edit
  483. [12:43:52 PM] Ircluzar: once we've got a working something, we could make a thread for it on the vinesauce forum
  484. [12:44:07 PM] Weinerless Steve: I think that's a good idea
  485. [12:44:17 PM] Ircluzar: oh yeah and as of this project
  486. [12:44:24 PM] Ircluzar: rtc will be fully integrated into it
  487. [12:44:29 PM] Ircluzar: and so rtc will be open source
  488. [12:44:36 PM] Ircluzar: it's been closed for long enough
  489. [12:44:52 PM] Myákki: you have given wrong credit to the 3d game algorithms
  490. [12:45:11 PM] Ircluzar: fixed it
  491. [12:45:14 PM] Weinerless Steve: how do you plan on integrating RTC? Just including it in the toolkit or something more?
  492. [12:45:29 PM] Ircluzar: well i'll strip RTC of it's glitch harvester
  493. [12:45:38 PM] Ircluzar: it will be controlled by the toolkit's interface
  494. [12:45:50 PM] Ircluzar: everything has to be centralised
  495. [12:46:13 PM] Ircluzar: there will be a glitch harvester in the new toolkit, a much more flexible one
  496. [12:47:27 PM] Weinerless Steve: so RTC and the glitch harvester will be still be their own separate entities not associated with the new corruptor, but they'll be split into two programs and included in the toolkit basically
  497. [12:47:59 PM] Ircluzar: okay i'll make a drawing of what i think this toolkit will look like
  498. [12:49:28 PM] BitRain: speaking of which I wanted to bring up UI design, The RTC had a lot of features, but for me, navigating through it was a bit of mystery and a bit unorganized.
  499. [12:49:55 PM] BitRain: maybe we can make the UI a bit more streamlined on the UCTK elements
  500. [12:51:50 PM] Weinerless Steve: that would be nice, I think the way RTC is set up works but there's always room for improvement with everything
  501. [12:54:49 PM] Weinerless Steve: I think we've covered most of what we wanted to say, once the forum is back up a thread might be a good idea
  502. [12:55:23 PM] Weinerless Steve: unless you want to get further along before you do that
  503. [12:57:33 PM] Ircluzar: okay im back
  504. [12:57:35 PM] Ircluzar: http://i.imgur.com/e2k3Beg.png
  505. [12:57:40 PM] Ircluzar: this is how i see it
  506. [12:57:51 PM] Myákki: if we get more/additional ideas, should we share them here or in the forum thread?
  507. [12:58:07 PM] Ircluzar: either here or on the Google docs
  508. [12:58:22 PM] Ircluzar: once we get something working that can be shared or tested, we'll make a forum thread
  509. [12:58:29 PM] Weinerless Steve: okay
  510. [12:58:31 PM] Ircluzar: be that happens, there are 2 things i need to finishe
  511. [12:58:31 PM] Myákki: oh oki
  512. [12:58:36 PM] Ircluzar: 1st, i need to finish VinewatchX3
  513. [12:58:46 PM] Ircluzar: second, i need to finish Ultra Toad 136
  514. [12:58:49 PM] Rikerz: haha
  515. [12:59:02 PM] Ircluzar: it's a real game you know
  516. [12:59:21 PM] Weinerless Steve: when you're done with ultra toad, I would email it to Vinny
  517. [12:59:30 PM] Ircluzar: oh you can be sure i will
  518. [12:59:31 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'm sure he'd get a kick out of it
  519. [12:59:45 PM] Ircluzar: it's not just some regular mario clone
  520. [1:00:24 PM] Rikerz: why 136?
  521. [1:00:34 PM] Ircluzar: because that's what vinny said on stream
  522. [1:00:42 PM] Rikerz: oh haha
  523. [1:00:47 PM] Ircluzar: he said "what's next? Ultra Toad 136?"
  524. [1:00:55 PM] Ircluzar: and so be it
  525. [1:01:07 PM] Ircluzar: i'm having a lot of fun building this game
  526. [1:01:38 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'm surprised no one has made super mario 65 and sent it to him
  527. [1:01:38 PM] Ircluzar: it's running in a weird mario engine i made back in 2006 and was untouched since then
  528. [1:02:01 PM] Weinerless Steve: I haven't played it yet, is it a smbw mod?
  529. [1:02:04 PM] Ircluzar: no
  530. [1:02:08 PM] Ircluzar: it's a custom engine
  531. [1:02:18 PM] Weinerless Steve: oh good
  532. [1:02:37 PM] Weinerless Steve: I'll have to check it out when the forums come back
  533. [1:02:41 PM] Ircluzar: here's a preview video
  534. [1:02:43 PM] Ircluzar: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uir0ok3l6ddsh7k/20150213_202026.mp4?dl=0
  535. [1:03:16 PM] Ircluzar: it doesn't look like that anymore but that's what it looked like when i started making it
  536. [1:03:50 PM] BitRain: neat
  537. [1:04:13 PM] Ircluzar: i've almost finished the second world
  538. [1:04:45 PM] Rikerz: how do you unlock the weapons? it would be neat if it was like mega man haha
  539. [1:04:56 PM] Ircluzar: it's like in another game
  540. [1:05:07 PM] Ircluzar: i'm not telling which one tho
  541. [1:05:38 PM] Ircluzar: it's going to be more and more obvious as you advance in the game
  542. [1:06:12 PM] Ircluzar: Well, it seems we've reached a point where the brainstorm is done
  543. [1:06:20 PM] Ircluzar: we've had a ton of ideas today
  544. [1:06:42 PM] Ircluzar: we now have a document about what the future of corruptions has to look like
  545. [1:07:21 PM] Ircluzar: you know, i've spent the last year coding RTC alone and i was helped by a lot of people that tested the program
  546. [1:07:34 PM] Ircluzar: now RTC has reached a point where in order to evolve, it needs to expand
  547. [1:07:47 PM] Ircluzar: so i will spend the following year working on UCTK
  548. [1:08:31 PM] Ircluzar: if anybody has other ideas, suggestions or would like to know how does things go, feel free write anytime in this group conversation
  549. [1:08:56 PM] Ircluzar: i will not close the group conversation so the ones that weren't present can read it layer
  550. [1:09:28 PM] Weinerless Steve: yeah, I'm pretty much done
  551. [1:10:07 PM] Weinerless Steve: the only thing I could think to mention is that dreamcast corruption being a thing would be nice, but since we're doing 6th and 7th gen stuff I'm sure that's possible too
  552. [1:10:18 PM] Ircluzar: yeah i guess so
  553. [1:10:24 PM] BitRain: you think we could use Qt for the UI?
  554. [1:10:30 PM] Ircluzar: Qt?
  555. [1:10:57 PM] Ircluzar: im reading on it
  556. [1:11:00 PM] BitRain: it's a very advanced UI design program, it's mostly used to make GUI for command line based things
  557. [1:11:26 PM] Ircluzar: hmm
  558. [1:11:35 PM] Ircluzar: well, it's something that could be done later
  559. [1:11:42 PM] Ircluzar: at first, i'll start working in Windows forms
  560. [1:11:49 PM] Ircluzar: and have the interface as detached as possible from the code
  561. [1:11:56 PM] BitRain: oh and since veeshush doesn't like Skype, I'll just export the chat log and send it to him
  562. [1:12:01 PM] Ircluzar: sure
  563. [1:12:09 PM] Weinerless Steve: I think there's a lot to be worked on before we worry about the interface
  564. [1:12:24 PM] BitRain: I like to plan ahead :D
  565. [1:12:25 PM] Ircluzar: but later on this is something that could be done i guess
  566. [1:12:32 PM] Weinerless Steve: yeah
  567. [1:15:39 PM] Ircluzar: So that concludes this group brainstorm, i'd like to thank everybody for contributing ideas, everybody who didn't, and i'd like to also thank vinny, who is not there at this moment, for having in some way made that we all met on his forum and eventually got ourselves together today to plan on the world's biggest videogame corruptor
  568. [1:16:41 PM] BitRain: yeah, this is going to be a fun project, and I'm pretty glad to be a part of this community
  569. [1:17:20 PM] Weinerless Steve: thanks Vinny for helping get these corruptions popular so that a community could form around them, and making the corruptions forum so we had a place where we could share idea
  570. [1:17:23 PM] Weinerless Steve: *ideas
  571. [1:18:26 PM] Weinerless Steve: I didn't think corruptions would ever advance this much or get so popular when I started this with DS corruptions and eventually N64, this has been amazing
  572. [1:18:37 PM] Rikerz: yeah, should be good, hopefully I can help
  573. [1:18:55 PM] Ircluzar: corruptions have come a long way
  574. [1:19:33 PM] Weinerless Steve: they really have
  575. [1:19:48 PM] Ircluzar: also thank you rikerz, for making the vinesauce rom corruptor which is probably the world's most known corruptor to date.
  576. [1:20:15 PM] Weinerless Steve: ^
  577. [1:21:07 PM] Weinerless Steve: also this is off topic but some people have been having an issue with the vinesauce corruptor in the newer versions where they get "attempt to open file failed" when trying to do n64 corruptions
  578. [1:21:17 PM] Ircluzar: i don't know
  579. [1:21:19 PM] Ircluzar: thanks to maid dog who made corruptions advance to newer générations of consoles
  580. [1:22:07 PM] Weinerless Steve: I don't know what would cause that, but I've replicated the values of people having that issue in 1.0, and it ran fine
  581. [1:22:27 PM] Maid Dog: The attempt to open file thing is emulator specific as far as I know. Project 64 is different from all the other emulators so it tends to not work correctly.
  582. [1:22:29 PM] Ircluzar: thanks to cosmocortney, weinerlesssteve, bitrain, welshgamer and vinny who contributed a lot to the knowledge of how to do corruptions
  583. [1:23:06 PM] Weinerless Steve: and thank you for making the RTC corruptor and organizing us all here today
  584. [1:23:07 PM] BitRain: and thanks cosmocourtney for figuring the memory address corruptions out
  585. [1:24:49 PM] Weinerless Steve: and thanks ego and veeshush who couldn't make it but have contributed to corruptions as well
  586. [1:24:56 PM] Ircluzar: ^
  587. [1:25:05 PM] Myákki: you're welcome :)
  588. [1:25:14 PM] Weinerless Steve: I can send ego a log of the chat when he comes on steam, since he wasn't here
  589. [1:25:43 PM | Edited 1:25:49 PM] BitRain: do you know how to?, it's kinda hard, I've already got the log of everything now anway
  590. [1:25:59 PM] Weinerless Steve: it's gotta be at least 6000 words now though so it would be tough to read the whole thing
  591. [1:26:17 PM] Weinerless Steve: all I have to do is right click, pick select all, and throw it in a pastebin
  592. [1:26:52 PM] BitRain: oh, I got the newer version of Skype and it won't allow it for some reason
  593. [1:27:04 PM] Weinerless Steve: that's weird, it works fine for me
  594. [1:27:10 PM] BitRain: also, it's ~800 messages
  595. [1:27:52 PM] Weinerless Steve: 8774 words
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