The /jp/ experiment is a failure

The /jp/ experiment is a failure

 

(15:12:55) +Azatsu: park ranger will be banned but imagine if you ban requested for something mod didn't agreed and then his reports were all wiped out when you br'ed him

(15:13:57) +Azatsu: it's also hard to try to reach a consensus with the users thought

(15:13:59) +Azatsu: *though

(15:14:07) +Azatsu: Too many different opinions, but we could try on /q/

(15:14:17) Sange: anyway, not that something from so long ago is important, it's just that I was going to mention /jp/ was most likely intended to be the general weeaboo board, but right now /a/ fits that function much better

(15:14:40) Sange: which is ironic, because /jp/ was created to be that and make /a/ be more focused on anime and manga again

(15:14:45) +Azatsu: it's

(15:14:49) +AoC: I'd rather avoid that. We got full consensus in /q/ for the current rules and there's still the ones that spam that it doesn't count because /q/ueers != /jp/sies

(15:15:11) Sange: and instead /a/ gets a load more of content and /jp/ users are super strict about what goes there

(15:15:21) +AoC: oh yes, very much. The /jp/ experiment is a failure in that sense because /a/ didn't get pure

(15:15:21) +Azatsu: I think I've ever seen a mod saying that LN was ok on /a/

(15:15:30) +AoC: and we can't go back due to genetic drift

(15:15:33) +Azatsu: basically defeating one of the purposes of /jp/

(15:16:07) +Azatsu: What about just sending them to /vg/?

(15:16:16) +Azatsu: It's one of the possibilities and we can put the general thing over it

(15:16:19) +AoC: well, that's because as the boards grow they become more about their individual cultures rather than the topic

(15:16:35) +Azatsu: what I fear though, is that people will take this as a role model and start claiming everything is a general and then trying to send it to /vg/

(15:16:40) +Azatsu: specially those bemani threads

(15:16:58) +AoC: we have the independent nation of /sp/ for one. If you want to have a strict talk about sports, you're shit out luck. Try another board with a conductive culture instead

(15:17:09) Anikitan: could always make a board for generals not about video games, but that just seems _extremely_ redundant

(15:17:30) +AoC: People are forgetting why /vg/ was important

(15:17:34) +Azatsu: some people have suggested a whole general board but I think /vg/ kinda already can be used for that

(15:17:44) +AoC: it was not just about the format, but the speed

(15:18:14) +AoC: since they kept the threads artificially bumped at all times it clogged the front page

(15:18:54) +Azatsu: I find it sad that /jp/ had to be affected by /vg/

(15:19:01) +Azatsu: when /vg/ didn't have anything to dow ith us

(15:19:04) +Azatsu: it was just something harmful

(15:19:12) +AoC: which is not the case for any of the /jp/ threads so far. You could argue that even if historically they've been allowed and should go in /vg/ now, they just don't share the features that made General threads exiled into their board

(15:19:25) Sange: anyway, I personally think the rules could be revised once more so the board could actually decide on its own what kind of videogame threads are allowed (so it could be more clear to normal posters, like you mentioned AoC, since they don't have the luxury or seeing BRs for the IP)

(15:19:56) +AoC: on the bright side, /vg/ provides a space for VN fans that wouldn't be able to find a good thread in /jp/ for their interests

(15:19:57) +Azatsu: exactly, LoL generals would be bumped to the front page the whole day, and so would the SC2 threads. It was impossibele to see any threads that didn't involve those

(15:20:00) +AoC: KS be damned

(15:20:01) Sange: otherwise everytime these threads come up janitoring will either seem sloppy, inconsistent or nazi

(15:20:27) +Azatsu: It's hard to cross the line because there isn't really a line to cross

(15:20:37) +Azatsu: not a strict one

(15:21:03) +Azatsu: If we've defined that line better within the rules, things would be much better. But one of the issues is that if we just ask for the rules to be changed and we don't consult /jp/, it will be retarded

(15:21:15) +Azatsu: Complaints will flood the board in seconds

(15:21:27) +nikka: bawwwwwwwwwwwwww

(15:21:43) Sange: I mentioned the board would decide on its own, so it would probably be a big /q/ thread about it

(15:21:59) +AoC: I'd rather impose to be honest. They don't deserve to be equally heard when their tactics are spam, evasion and not following some common sense

(15:22:14) Anikitan: 90% of my ban requests submitted on /vg/ are for shitposting

(15:22:15) +Azatsu: I don't really want to remember the chaos that was the /q/ threads

(15:22:16) Sange: then we get whatever is the biggest consensus and apply it to the rules (even if it is no videogame threads at all)

(15:22:22) +Azatsu: those fucking pools full of proxies

(15:22:28) +Azatsu: and that guy that spammed 10 /q/ threads with his ideas

(15:22:33) +Azatsu: and his ideas did happen and he KEPT complaining

(15:22:38) Anikitan: lol... really?

(15:22:45) Anikitan: wow

(15:22:47) +AoC: yeah, that was insane...

(15:22:48) +Azatsu: he spammed his pasta

(15:22:48) Anikitan: some people

(15:22:54) +Azatsu: over more than 10 threads

(15:23:08) Anikitan: at least he knew his idea was good...?

(15:23:10) Anikitan: lol

(15:23:17) +Azatsu: he had to adapt his idea 5 times

(15:23:23) +Azatsu: to suit the board, and even then, he kept complaining

(15:23:54) Sange: I'd much prefer a thread on /q/ personally, specially because the actual board never had a chance to define this issue

(15:23:54) +Azatsu: just because we wouldn't put on the sticky that bad, yet not complete shit posts wouldn't be deleted

(15:24:04) +Azatsu: it will be chaotic

(15:24:07) +nikka: u guy are lucky

(15:24:24) Sange: you know, there's a lot of good posters who simply avoid posting in metas, whining on ghost, etc

(15:24:35) » +fsdfdsf|zZz is now known as +fsdfdsf

(15:24:51) +AoC: I am aware of them. They tend to be in the apathy/take it easy side of things

(15:25:00) Sange: we only get to hear the side that prefers to derail threads with meta and whine on ghost regarding "otaku culture" related videogame threads

(15:25:08) +AoC: unless things get spammy they just ignore, as everyone should

(15:25:22) +Azatsu: Yeah, I think we should give it a shot

(15:25:34) +Azatsu: AoC, we can't just change the rules without their opinion

(15:26:21) +Azatsu: over the consensus they reach, they will get the policies they deserve

(15:26:23) +Azatsu: that's what I think

(15:26:33) +AoC: I know, that was just my personal feeling on the situation. For the /q/ thread it needs to have kami posting otherwise it'd be ignored

(15:26:37) VCR_Working: gotta watch out though

(15:26:49) VCR_Working: you know they'll try to pull what happened last time

(15:27:37) +AoC: I'm actually optimistic VCR_Working. In the end the insane spammer was ignored and agreeable guidelines were passed

(15:28:02) Sange: and this is something personal, but I think /jp/ has the potential to be much more but it keeps being limited from that due to this adherence to an old mindset of what actually belongs and the general scaring of new users from posting in the board (it could be good against bad posters, but it doesn't seem to be working with all the le XD posts I BR everyday)

(15:28:30) VCR_Working: the scaring is done primarily by the bad users

(15:28:34) VCR_Working: i think so at least

(15:28:47) +AoC: I've posted on this in /ghost/ over the years, but the elitist high defense thing? It never worked

(15:28:50) +AoC: from the start

(15:29:06) +AoC: now we're left with people that arrived under that heavy fire and think this is how the board is

(15:29:25) +AoC: when it was a place to take it easy. Not under that name though, yukkuri wasn't a thing back then

(15:29:57) +AoC: Which brings me to the next point. What is the standard for quality?

(15:30:55) +AoC: Because it has to be a concerted effort for it to make any difference. All of us deleting "ur mom" and "xD" posts, not on spurts

(15:31:42) +fsdfdsf: Any shows out yet?

(15:31:47) Sange: I literally BR every post with le or "xD"

(15:31:56) +fsdfdsf: Good man

(15:32:39) +AoC: I reduce it to just the ones that have been reported, otherwise I'd clog the system with /v/ posts

(15:33:02) +fsdfdsf: Yea mods said not to use global 6 a ton

(15:33:27) +fsdfdsf: But instead of it I use the garbage outside of /b/ because I consider XD and all that other shit trolling

(15:33:55) +AoC: I know that it's because we haven't been able to scale up with the users

(15:34:02) Sange: but regarding threads that should be deleted, I think we already got most things covered, spam, blatant shitposting, trolling, meta, blog threads, personal threads, very low quality touhou threads, etc

(15:34:21) +AoC: but I would like to see DSARFEG-level to be grounds for public bans

(15:35:00) +AoC: we've grown a spoiled userbase that actually thinks they're allowed to do whatever. /q/ is incredible in that sense

(15:35:19) Sange: things get trickier when it comes to threads it's a poster trying to make a point, some thread that will inevitably be a shitstorm but is board related, etc

(15:35:32) +fsdfdsf: Yea a lot of the threads in /q/ are full of people who seem to think they run 4chan

(15:35:34) +AoC: we haven't agreed on textless OP though

(15:35:49) Sange: it really depends

(15:36:02) +AoC: stuff like https://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/9971943

(15:36:18) +nikka: fuck 6 just use 3

(15:36:23) VCR_Working: textless touhous

(15:36:29) VCR_Working: also patchy is mid-tier

(15:36:39) Sange: I'm fine with them if the image is board related and has never been posted before

(15:36:40) Anikitan: Tenshi is the best touhou

(15:36:45) Anikitan: i like her hat and hair the most

(15:37:21) +AoC: Azatsu, your views

(15:37:28) Sange: honestly, I'd take a hundred of that one than those "which 2hu has the cutest sock" that I generally delete and have to hear one guy complaining about it

(15:38:19) Sange: with the amount of very low quality threads touhou gets on /jp/, textless ones can actually be of higher quality

(15:38:26) +AoC: "which 2hu", "who ___ here" and ">/jp/" is just asking for it

(15:38:29) Sange: but it really depends

(15:39:11) +nikka: which 2hu would u fug

(15:39:37) +AoC: none, you love them tenderly and pass them some more tea

(15:39:42) Sange: I'm fine with who THREADS here, and I think "2hu" is really dumb but I don't judge solely on that, it's just that as a consequence threads with "2hu" on the OP tend to be of lower quality

(15:39:43) +AoC: you lewd motherfucker

(15:40:05) VCR_Working: lol

(15:40:21) +AoC: I haven't seen a thread with 2hu in the OP that wasn't shitposting in months

(15:40:27) +AoC: likewise for the push of tou-bros

(15:40:40) Sange: but there's actually one or two

(15:40:43) Sange: each month

(15:40:56) Sange: I still think "2hu" is really dumb though

(15:41:00) Anikitan: https://images.4chan.org/vg/src/1351805778848.jpg oh steam, you so crazy

(15:42:18) Sange: either way, I'd be fine with threads like "who UTAWARERUMONO here", I see this thing as pretty harmless, personally

(15:42:30) Anikitan: underwater ray romano

(15:42:33) +AoC: ah yeah, had to leave that one due to content

(15:43:11) +AoC: but the "who drive otaku here" is on another level

(15:43:16) Sange: yeah

(15:43:35) Sange: that guy has been spamming drive threads for over a month by now

(15:43:49) Sange: not spamming mutiple threads in a row

(15:43:51) Sange: but daily

(15:44:00) +AoC: month? It goes back further

(15:44:34) Sange: yeah, I'm bad with keeping up with time

(15:44:34) VCR_Working: >That fucking feel when you remember you're an American.

(15:44:44) VCR_Working: man how do they keep this up

(15:44:48) * +fsdfdsf clap clap clap clap

(15:45:14) VCR_Working: >https://images.4chan.org/jp/src/1351773932562.jpg

(15:45:19) VCR_Working: and what the hell is this

(15:45:41) +AoC: there used to be a spambot that promoted a porn link

(15:46:11) +AoC: followed by another spam post by a derek going "thanks OP shes hot in porn came over cat he hiss at penis 9/10"

(15:46:37) +AoC: idea being that any link is dangerous unless "derek" gives his seal of approval

(15:46:41) +fsdfdsf: Thanks Accel for that great cat hiss at penis post

(15:46:49) Sange: yep

(15:47:20) VCR_Working: okay better question

(15:47:24) VCR_Working: who's this derek fag

(15:47:30) +AoC: spam

(15:47:39) +AoC: it was never an actual guy

(15:47:43) VCR_Working: i see

(15:47:55) VCR_Working: and where did this originate from

(15:48:33) +Kazisho: /b/, didn't it...?

(15:48:39) +AoC: moving on, questionable deletions. I haven't seen anything in the archive lately, except for

(15:48:40) +AoC: http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/S9958949

(15:48:43) +AoC: http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/S9957339

(15:48:52) +AoC: was that OP or one of us?

(15:49:19) VCR_Working: i had a feeling

(15:49:23) VCR_Working: also https://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/9972352#q9972352 pls

(15:49:27) VCR_Working: pls go

(15:49:27) Sange: anyway, regarding textless threads, I'm fine with them if they're board related, SFW and have never been posted before and of passable quality to not be considered spam (examples would be a nice/cute Touhou pic or maybe an interesting VN CG)

(15:49:39) Sange: if that can be used as a pattern

(15:50:04) Sange: and are of*

(15:50:28) +AoC: Agreeable. Not that I find myself deleting the textless that often, only when we're losing so many pages that it makes no difference

(15:51:24) +AoC: Also, I am noting this thread

(15:51:25) +AoC: https://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/9971478

(15:51:37) Sange: I didn't delete the second one, but deleted the first one

(15:51:46) +AoC: as a prime example of off-topic/borderline being good for the board

(15:51:53) Sange: it was my fault for not knowing the content

(15:52:12) Sange: I just saw that sentence regarding /f/ and acted upon that

(15:52:14) VCR_Working: https://images.4chan.org/jp/src/1351742570028.jpg

(15:53:13) +AoC: try to look unknown stuff in the future

(15:53:20) Sange: I generally google things before deleting

(15:53:30) Sange: 99% of the time when I'm unsure

(15:53:38) Sange: that sentence just scrwed me up

(15:55:54) +AoC: Anyway, I guess that's what I've been meaning to talk about. Sorry about being so absent lately and that the board is sliding back once more, but we can pull through with some consistency and constant action

(15:56:11) +AoC: we have tools now that can tire out the spammers faster now

(15:56:48) +AoC: will ask kami for a /q/ to discuss the borderline videogame threads with the rest of the users and have a public decision based on that

(15:56:50) Sange: it was my fault for not updating you guys of my schedule too

(15:57:24) Sange: and yeah, I think that's for the best

(15:57:58) +AoC: Anything else to discuss?

(15:58:03) Sange: I'd also suggest removing tea from the rules as an example but continue to allow and clean up the threads

(15:58:21) VCR_Working: http://i.imgur.com/NUmY3.jpg

(15:58:25) Sange: just so there's less people using it shitpost like they did with headphones and trains

(15:58:50) +AoC: have we had any tea shitposting?

(15:58:56) +AoC: haven't noticed

(15:59:01) Sange: the guy who spams feel images

(15:59:05) Sange: on NEET threads

(15:59:16) » Quit: +nikka (~zzz@Keep.your.nose.away) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

(15:59:23) Sange: also does it on tea threads because he thinks it was forced into the board

(15:59:38) +AoC: sigh. These new people will be the death of me

(16:00:06) +AoC: Don't think it calls for removal entirely, but will keep an eye out for the guy

(16:00:26) » Join: kami` (~kami@truth.may.seem)

(16:00:26) » ChanServ (+h) kami`

(16:00:41) Sange: http://archive.foolz.us/jp/search/text/tea%20feel/

(16:01:05) Sange: http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=tea+forced

(16:01:14) Sange: I'm sure there will be some posts within those searches

(16:01:32) VCR_Working: i want to buy some tea now

(16:01:33) Sange: second link on warosu because he also posted on ghost

(16:01:47) Sange: I prefer foolz over it

(16:02:26) +AoC: warosu /ghost/ is downright retarded, but it feels like home

(16:03:00) +AoC: Anyway, kami` can you help us out with a /q/ thread regarding MMO and other borderline threads in /jp/?

(16:03:12) Sange: the good part is that it looks like easymodo, the bad part is all the rest

(16:03:38) +AoC: Idea being to open the table for the users to decide what should be the cut-off point

(16:04:10) Sange: I'd to have a thread focusing on japanese videogames, though

(16:04:16) Sange: like to*

(16:04:28) +AoC: that, and that warosu implemented something I requested from the first day: Search returning results per thread instead of ops

(16:05:01) » Join: moots (moots@the.run)

(16:05:01) » ChanServ (+qo) moots moots

(16:05:18) +AoC: as long as we can avoid "jp related because I'm playing in japanese servers" retarded spam it's all good

(16:05:26) Sange: I consider MMO another issue and it is more clear-cut to the users (posters have a problem with the general/daily format, they're fine otherwise when there's something new like Cosmic Break/PSO2 at the time)

(16:06:19) Sange: considering it is japanese or asian in origin, of course

(16:06:35) +AoC: it's not the format, otherwise idols/OC/VNTL/kigurumi would be under fire as well

(16:07:09) +AoC: jp has always had longform chained threads, it's only MMO that is triggering someone's compulsion and why we're in this mess

(16:07:39) » Join: nikka (~zzz@Keep.your.nose.away)

(16:07:39) » ChanServ (+v) nikka

(16:08:03) Sange: I say it's the format because I don't think they'd be a problem if they were created bi-weekly or made it sound like all MMOs were welcome

(16:08:17) Sange: to the point of getting 10+ reports

(16:08:21) +nikka: me>ignored again

(16:08:26) +nikka: f

(16:08:55) +AoC: those have to be manipulated by the way, going from comments in /ghost/ and the rate

(16:09:07) +AoC: even for /jp/ 17 reports in 5m is too much

(16:09:12) Sange: yeah

(16:09:29) Sange: I cleared one of those threads a week or two ago

(16:09:35) Sange: it had 33+ reports

(16:09:38) VCR_Working: the hell

(16:09:39) Sange: It was really fishy

(16:09:43) Sange: right after I cleaned it

(16:09:49) Sange: it never went past 3

(16:10:44) +AoC: it's the same guy that actually has the nerve to accuse us when we clear the queue

(16:11:02) +AoC: How the fuck are you able to tell, you report system abusing fuck?

(16:11:06) Sange: I only did so as way to test it if it was actually someone spamming reports, if it had got back to 30 reports I'd have deleted it

(16:11:19) Sange: that guy is annoying as hell

(16:11:47) Sange: I'm pretty sure he is also the one who likes reporting the same posts from one single thread over and over

(16:11:53) Sange: and never gets report locked

(16:12:09) +AoC: http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/S9852170#p9852185_515

(16:12:16) +AoC: this is what I was referring to before

(16:12:45) Sange: well, at least we know for sure now

(16:13:25) +AoC: well, it's not definite evidence but grounds to be suspicious of high reports and outright ignoring the ones that are re-reported

(16:16:37) Sange: this kind of thing also reinforces my notion that we have to cater to the easygoing users who enjoy the threads, not the spergmasters who do shit like that because they don't think it's board related

(16:17:01) Sange: not that we would knowing that, but you get my point

(16:18:58) Sange: focusing more on the casual, harmless users, than those board tryhards

(16:19:25) +AoC: I understand and agree. Sure it's harder to get feedback since only the obsessive and upset will be the ones bumping in /ghost/ or mailing moot, but an easy-going /jp/ is far better than a full fascist VN-touhou only board. Or a 2D/Random.

(16:21:13) Sange: It's funny because a lot of these tryhards use it /jp/ as a shitpost dumping ground in the threads they don't agree with, they are not to be listened to more so than your average new poster at all