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Brennus

IRC Aug. 8, 2015

Aug 9th, 2015
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  1. 3:04:29 PM Brennus Ok, I'm back from house viewing. I expected to see a few more folks by this time :(
  2. 3:07:43 PM Uriel yeah, its me being here lol I jynxed it
  3. 3:08:20 PM JaegerWolf I'll agree with you on the coke binge, but the 90's also produced Jurassic Park, the Cohen Brothers, and the first Matrix.
  4. 3:08:54 PM Brennus Lol :) Well, perhaps more will show up soon. Ahh, the first Matrix. The only one truly worth watching
  5. 3:09:49 PM Uriel My friend at uni wouldn't shut up about that being a rip off of some anime
  6. 3:09:52 PM Uriel paprika iirc
  7. 3:10:08 PM Uriel i was never that wowed by the matrix, and i'm not a big anime guy
  8. 3:10:36 PM Brennus I saw that anime, and I would not call the Matrix a rip off by and stretch of the imagination
  9. 3:11:17 PM Brennus *any
  10. 3:13:29 PM JaegerWolf The Matrix could have been stolen from any number of different sources.
  11. 3:13:34 PM Uriel might be the wrong anime, like i say, I'm not an anime guy. I had watched like 3 with a childhoodbro before going to uni, and that guy got me to watch like 11 or 12.
  12. 3:13:35 PM JaegerWolf It was still awesome.
  13. 3:13:47 PM Uriel Mainly gun related stuff in all honesty.
  14. 3:14:19 PM Uriel Keanu Reeves is a great actor, I feel he gets forgotten a lot though.
  15. 3:14:30 PM Brennus He's great if put into the right role
  16. 3:15:12 PM JaegerWolf The right role involving those where he says "woah"
  17. 3:15:19 PM Uriel true that. I loved Point Break
  18. 3:15:20 PM Brennus Hahaha yes
  19. 3:15:30 PM Brennus Never actually saw point break
  20. 3:15:46 PM JaegerWolf He is Ted. In real life.
  21. 3:16:06 PM Uriel watch it if you get a chance. Despite the very.. cheesy story premise (Surfers) its actually a pretty cool film
  22. 3:16:12 PM Uriel i only watched it like last year i think
  23. 3:16:37 PM JaegerWolf The guy does action scenes good, but any time he has to do that thing where he opens his mouth and sounds come out and he has to look serious or alive, he just fails.
  24. 3:17:18 PM Uriel haha, I think its the memory we all have of bill and teds wild adventure
  25. 3:17:29 PM Uriel its like seeing Jim Carey in a serious role, its just weird
  26. 3:17:51 PM Brennus Yeah, I can't see Jim Carey as anything but Ace Ventura
  27. 3:18:04 PM JaegerWolf Watch Bram Stoker's Dracula, watch the scenes with Keanu in it vs the scenes without him, and then tell me that.
  28. 3:19:04 PM Uriel Ahhh, I've noticed that old classics always seem to have that problem when done again. And to be fair, there hasn't been a good Dracula since like the first one...
  29. 3:19:24 PM Uriel its one of those films that fit the generation, but don't translate well after
  30. 3:19:25 PM Brennus That goodness harker is less important in the second act of that story
  31. 3:20:04 PM JaegerWolf Bram Stoker
  32. 3:20:16 PM JaegerWolf 's is the one made by Francis Ford Coppola.
  33. 3:20:21 PM Brennus And, of course, Anthony Hopkins pretty much guarantees I will like a movie
  34. 3:20:21 PM JaegerWolf and it's amazing.
  35. 3:20:34 PM JaegerWolf Except for the scenes with Keanu.
  36. 3:20:41 PM Brennus Yes
  37. 3:22:37 PM Uriel have either of you seen True Detective?
  38. 3:22:42 PM Brennus Nope.
  39. 3:23:13 PM Froggy joined the channel.
  40. 3:23:17 PM Brennus Hey Froggy
  41. 3:23:23 PM JaegerWolf Nope. Keep meaning to.
  42. 3:23:34 PM JaegerWolf And you logged on as I was getting ready to log off.
  43. 3:23:50 PM Brennus Matthew McConaughey annoys mey, so I find it hard to get into things he stars in
  44. 3:24:24 PM Uriel yeah I normally feel that way too. And he is a little annoying, as his character is kind of meant to be. But that was surprisingly well acted
  45. 3:24:56 PM Uriel could take vince vaughn seriously enough to watch the second series though
  46. 3:25:11 PM Froggy Hi all.
  47. 3:25:15 PM Uriel hi
  48. 3:25:29 PM JaegerWolf yo.
  49. 3:26:05 PM Brennus How's it goin?
  50. 3:26:21 PM Froggy I was slightly concerned last night that the start of the English football season might keep me up and see me sleep in past the start of this meeting.
  51. 3:26:30 PM Froggy But Man U & Spurs took care of that. :P
  52. 3:26:59 PM Uriel haha
  53. 3:28:13 PM Uriel well you havem't missed anything but talk of Keanu Reeves acting ability
  54. 3:28:31 PM Froggy Not a lot to talk about there.
  55. 3:28:53 PM Brennus Haha, that was essentially the conclusion we came to
  56. 3:28:59 PM Uriel yeah that was the general consensus, although he's surprisingly good in a few things
  57. 3:29:22 PM Froggy He's decent at being pretty on screen.
  58. 3:29:31 PM JaegerWolf You sound like how I'll be when hockey season starts.
  59. 3:30:10 PM Froggy So about those greentext summaries.
  60. 3:30:49 PM Froggy They really need to be written for someone who knows nothing. Like the person who sees Uriel and is like, "who the fuck is Uriel?"
  61. 3:32:00 PM Froggy You can assume some knowledge of 40k and the very basic plot of the Horus Heresy (because there ought to be a greentext summary of our basic plot written up), but that's about it.
  62. 3:32:02 PM Uriel yeah i did a quick draft earlier, got some things to iron out before i'd post it. Some details need tying down or trimming. Or expanding on
  63. 3:32:11 PM Brennus I'm kinda fiddling with it now
  64. 3:32:41 PM JaegerWolf Ah, yes.
  65. 3:32:56 PM Brennus I'll take minutes again too, if nobody else is.
  66. 3:33:02 PM JaegerWolf Alright, I can fix that later. Have to go play a DnD game, though.
  67. 3:33:28 PM Froggy Brennus, that would be very helpful.
  68. 3:33:34 PM JaegerWolf Have a good one, fellas.
  69. 3:33:37 PM Uriel have fun man
  70. 3:33:42 PM Froggy Merrill, is that a regular slot for you? If so we should change our time.
  71. 3:33:43 PM Brennus Later dude
  72. 3:33:52 PM JaegerWolf Sometimes.
  73. 3:34:13 PM Froggy Alright. Later.
  74. 3:34:18 PM JaegerWolf American Football season is coming up, though, and one of our players might drop until Spring.
  75. 3:35:10 PM JaegerWolf That being said, if this runs as late today as it did last week, I'll be back before we're done.
  76. 3:35:23 PM JaegerWolf Yall take care.
  77. 3:35:53 PM Brennus I'm hoping people assumed it would start at the same time as last week, and show up in a half hours
  78. 3:36:16 PM Uriel LCK seemed like he would make it when i linked him the time earlier
  79. 3:36:32 PM Brennus Hmm, I thought he'd still be at work
  80. 3:36:52 PM Uriel so we might see him, i'll message in the skype chat in a second
  81. 3:37:16 PM Froggy I think I might have messed up the time announcements...
  82. 3:37:37 PM Uriel it showed on the link as 10pm for me, for being UK
  83. 3:37:48 PM Froggy Because the consensus last week was for one hour earlier than last week.
  84. 3:38:12 PM Brennus It showed as 2 pm for me in Arizona, which was 2 hours earlier than last time if I recall'
  85. 3:38:17 PM Uriel well Brennus was here before I got here, and I got here at pretty much 10, last week you all met at 11 right?
  86. 3:38:37 PM JaegerWolf has quit: Ping timeout.
  87. 3:38:37 PM Brennus yeah
  88. 3:38:45 PM Brennus Lemme check my records
  89. 3:39:25 PM Froggy Oh, no, it was set for 11pm UTC last week. OK. That makes me feel more competent.
  90. 3:39:27 PM Brennus It was 4 26 pm AZ time when I joined last week (for reference, it is currently 3:39 PM here)
  91. 3:40:40 PM Uriel I usually won't make saturdays, except maybe for an hour or 2 if I'm not working sunday. I usually work the saturdays right now
  92. 3:41:20 PM Froggy Yeah, it's difficult to schedule the chats across half the globe. I think the current time at least makes it possible for you and Aubrey to check in. :-/
  93. 3:41:42 PM Brennus Aubrey is kind of a night owl anyway
  94. 3:41:48 PM Uriel yeah 10 is reasonable for us. I work late most days and as far as I understand, he's a student and a night owl lol
  95. 3:41:56 PM Brennus owlmind
  96. 3:42:13 PM Froggy He's probably sleeping in, then ;)
  97. 3:42:36 PM Brennus Haha yep
  98. 3:43:36 PM Uriel wouldn't surprise me. He reminds me of an old uni buddy. Laziest guy I ever met. Slept for 21 hours straight, woke up, ate, watched us play vidya, then went back to bed...
  99. 3:44:01 PM Uriel student life really was the tits though. I'd go back in a second
  100. 3:44:13 PM Brennus Agreed. College was the best time of my life
  101. 3:45:00 PM Uriel I had a shitty early and secondary school life. Then sixth form and then uni was just amazing. Shame I went and did a crap tier degree lol
  102. 3:46:23 PM Froggy I get the feeling that Aubrey actually turns out a lot of work, just at strange hours. He's doing computer science or something, isn't he?
  103. 3:46:40 PM Brennus I would have just been happy to GET my degree. I'm not sure what Aubrey does, I have never thought to ask
  104. 3:47:01 PM Uriel Its been a while since he mentioned it, but it was computer related i believe yeah
  105. 3:47:31 PM Uriel and i wasn't saying he was lazy, he just reminded me of my lazy old friend
  106. 3:48:00 PM TheWaywardGuardsman joined the channel.
  107. 3:48:14 PM Brennus Hey Wayward
  108. 3:48:15 PM TheWaywardGuardsman I stand corrected, I've got the desktop for a few minutes before I have to cook
  109. 3:48:31 PM Brennus Cool, even a few minutes is good
  110. 3:48:36 PM Froggy Hi Wayward.
  111. 3:48:39 PM Uriel hey man good to see you
  112. 3:49:30 PM TheWaywardGuardsman Whats on the agenda?
  113. 3:49:44 PM Froggy Cats and greentext Legion summaries.
  114. 3:49:59 PM Froggy When Aubrey makes it, Snakes.
  115. 3:50:05 PM Froggy When Alex arrives, the Unstained Host.
  116. 3:50:09 PM Alexandri joined the channel.
  117. 3:50:12 PM Froggy Also brainstorming.
  118. 3:50:16 PM Brennus Hi Alex
  119. 3:50:24 PM Froggy That timing. Hi Alex.
  120. 3:50:42 PM Alexandri Alright
  121. 3:50:42 PM Alexandri So
  122. 3:50:48 PM Alexandri Sorry I didn't finish the Unstained.
  123. 3:50:51 PM Alexandri I fucked around on Thursday
  124. 3:51:09 PM Alexandri Worked hard as I could last night to get more of their Members fixed.
  125. 3:51:31 PM Froggy That's alright. I know there's some copy up there that I haven't read, along with the initial work.
  126. 3:51:56 PM Brennus It's some pretty good stuff
  127. 3:53:18 PM Brennus So what did you think of my proposal on the thread for the Host's view of Hektor?
  128. 3:53:37 PM Froggy Has everyone who's not about to run out read the page? http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Unstained_Host
  129. 3:54:22 PM Alexandri I really liked some feedback on it.
  130. 3:56:01 PM Froggy I think, just as a matter of format, that Zhardan probably needs his own page for his bio, with the UH page just noting that he was an obscure Black Augur warrior before coming to prominence in the Scouring/Betrayal of Sudden Flame.
  131. 3:57:24 PM Alexandri Alright.
  132. 3:57:28 PM Alexandri I was thinking that too.
  133. 3:57:32 PM Alexandri The current page is a first draft.
  134. 3:57:47 PM Alexandri Keeping it all there for now, then breaking it up and slimming it down to be more concise and smoother to read.
  135. 3:57:52 PM Froggy Sure, the idea is that you'd bring back a draft to discuss.
  136. 3:58:23 PM Alexandri Yes. I've attempted to lay out at least the outline before finishing up, so you can see the various key planets they own.
  137. 3:58:34 PM Froggy There are some soft turns of phrase. "Many joked of their insanity" doesn't quite read right for Chaos Marines.
  138. 3:59:07 PM Alexandri True/.
  139. 3:59:21 PM Alexandri Perhaps I need different words to get across the message.
  140. 3:59:48 PM Froggy "Mocked their weakness?"
  141. 4:00:07 PM Brennus You're trying to convey that even batshit loony chaos marines think the Host is nuts, right?
  142. 4:00:18 PM Uriel derided them for their insanity?
  143. 4:00:21 PM Froggy Regarding the First Incursion - is this what was agreed last time? I thought we intended to have a first crusade led by Aubrey?
  144. 4:00:26 PM Alexandri I think it's to point out how odd it is for them not to crush people.
  145. 4:00:40 PM Alexandri And that was literally something Aubrey spat out once and never developed.
  146. 4:00:45 PM Brennus I always figured that Aubrey was the figurehead, and Zhardan was just using him
  147. 4:00:48 PM Alexandri He keeps looking for things for Aubrey to do.
  148. 4:01:01 PM Uriel 'mocked their mercy/restraint' maybe
  149. 4:01:07 PM Froggy Let's check the log, I know we discussed it.
  150. 4:01:08 PM Brennus Well, whoever the warlord in charge was, before Zhardan existed
  151. 4:01:14 PM Brennus http://pastebin.com/nsJjq5h6
  152. 4:01:23 PM Brennus Last week's minutes
  153. 4:01:23 PM Alexandri @Brennus: That's what I thought would be fine but Lumey pointed out how that hurts both characters.
  154. 4:02:11 PM Brennus I can see how it hurts Aubrey, but Zhardan being able to bully a primarch isn't so bad.
  155. 4:02:26 PM Alexandri But he's not.
  156. 4:02:31 PM Froggy Around 432.
  157. 4:02:33 PM Alexandri It's more Zhardan makes Aubrey think its his idea
  158. 4:02:57 PM Uriel Aubrey jobs quite a lot already, having him job even more is bad
  159. 4:03:00 PM Brennus Ahh, so more subtle than I was thinking
  160. 4:03:13 PM Alexandri I agree Uriel.
  161. 4:03:19 PM Brennus Well, actually, I kind of had an idea for that
  162. 4:03:29 PM Alexandri Also
  163. 4:03:36 PM Froggy Right, so my suggestion was at 467 in the minutes. I think Alex was away at that point of the meeting.
  164. 4:03:38 PM Alexandri This is when you guys took my 'Chaos Deathwatch' comment pretty far.
  165. 4:03:47 PM Alexandri Thinking it was a small organization
  166. 4:04:09 PM Brennus Brennus and Lumey are still around in the first Incursion, and Brennus is super tactical right? Well, I imagine he runs a series of deliberately losing battles, letting almost nobody in on his scheme, until he concocts the perfect ambus and kills/maims Aubrey
  167. 4:04:11 PM Uriel in the old version, where Aubrey lead the crusades and there was a council of representatives, we had Aubrey lead a crusade, then get sucked into the warp with roman.
  168. 4:04:23 PM Alexandri Okay that time is this Froggy
  169. 4:04:31 PM Alexandri Because I can't add 467 minutes in my head.
  170. 4:04:36 PM Brennus Line 467
  171. 4:04:40 PM Alexandri OH
  172. 4:04:41 PM Alexandri DERP
  173. 4:04:46 PM Brennus On pastebin each new line is numbered
  174. 4:04:48 PM Brennus Haha is ok
  175. 4:05:06 PM Alexandri Okay no I was here for this.
  176. 4:05:09 PM Brennus When he first said it I almost commented that "4:67" would just be 5:07
  177. 4:05:10 PM Alexandri Or just reading it.
  178. 4:05:26 PM Alexandri 7:25:51 PM Froggy I mean, we should establish the guy's credibility during Aubrey's crusade, possibly as the rearguard during the retreat, or alternatively his warband carry out a feint and are widly succesful, only having to withdraw to the Eye of Terror when the main force is defeated?
  179. 4:05:33 PM Uriel that old method still works. Its not Aubrey jobbing or being bossed around by someone. He's unlucky more or less.
  180. 4:06:08 PM Froggy Yeah, the Roman/Aubrey ending is good. We can have Gaspard and Brennus to back up the Lord Knight, so it's not as though the Chaos Pope gets punked by just one guy.
  181. 4:06:14 PM Alexandri I think it's a difference in how I want Zhardan brought up.
  182. 4:06:28 PM Alexandri I don't want him in the shadow of a Primarch, he's sort of a clean slate.
  183. 4:06:32 PM Brennus I gotcha
  184. 4:06:42 PM Uriel @Froggy yeah he is a DP by this point, so even Roman would struggle with him
  185. 4:06:43 PM Alexandri Setting the stage for the era of Champions and Warbands, rather than Primarchs and Legions.
  186. 4:06:49 PM Brennus Yeah, that sounds good Froggy
  187. 4:06:56 PM Uriel Then why not this:
  188. 4:07:03 PM Brennus I see where you're comin from Alex
  189. 4:07:09 PM Froggy Alex, I think the idea is to have Aubrey's crusade to finally clear the slate, so that Zhardan can start something new.
  190. 4:07:11 PM Alexandri There's no reason the Zealots can't run their own Crusade, I always thought they do pretty well for themselves.
  191. 4:07:36 PM Uriel In the chaos following the flight for the Eye of Terror, Aubrey comes to power through being alive and present to lead. Also he was groomed as Hektors Successors more or less, before becoming head priest of the 4 gods
  192. 4:07:38 PM Alexandri I'm just speaking out against Zhardan and his ilk having anything to do with it so it doesn't muddy their theme. Is that reasonable?
  193. 4:07:50 PM Brennus Perfectly reasonable
  194. 4:08:42 PM Uriel the 'old guard' could try and instate a sense of discipline, and Aubrey appeals to that, so the old sacred band structures are still present, a testament of hektors success with them. Then when Aubrey dies, it goes to shit as everyone jostles for top spot again
  195. 4:08:53 PM Froggy You could have Zhardan emerge towards the end of Aubrey's Crusade, fighting rearguard or pulling the shattered fragments together.
  196. 4:09:33 PM Alexandri I'm not sure.
  197. 4:09:47 PM Uriel Zhardan could come about in the chaos following the collapse of the older ways. Partly a continuation of Hektors ideals, and partly a new direction for a new dawn of warfare in the universe
  198. 4:09:47 PM Alexandri Has everyone read what I've written so far?
  199. 4:09:51 PM Froggy Or give him a Lettow-Vorbeck role https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Emil_von_Lettow-Vorbeck
  200. 4:09:53 PM Alexandri So we're all ont he same page for how I see things?
  201. 4:09:59 PM Brennus Or perhaps just biding his time, away from the Crusade, and then picking up stragglers to serve him
  202. 4:10:23 PM Alexandri Lettow-Vorbeck is pretty much in the eye of the damn eclipsing presence of a greater power.
  203. 4:11:06 PM Brennus The shattered remnants of the Zealot led incursion get sucked into the proto-Host, disillusioned with the rule of Primarchs
  204. 4:11:41 PM Froggy L-V is off on a sideshow while the big story unfolds. He does really well even though his side is defeated in the main theatre. Have Zhardan play Lettow-Vorbeck to Aubrey's Kaiser.
  205. 4:12:14 PM Uriel it feels like the Unstained Host is a merging of Hektors ideals etc, and the new norm of chaos and the Eye of Terror. Is that more or less right?
  206. 4:13:01 PM Uriel taking into account the proposed way they view Hektor that is
  207. 4:13:28 PM Alexandri That means that Zhardan owes his success
  208. 4:13:31 PM Alexandri To the failure of Aubrey
  209. 4:13:34 PM Alexandri Rather than forging it all on his own.
  210. 4:13:38 PM Alexandri That's what I'm trying to say here.
  211. 4:13:46 PM Uriel for their to be a winner, their needs to be a loser
  212. 4:13:56 PM Alexandri >their
  213. 4:14:06 PM Froggy I don't understand that.
  214. 4:14:33 PM Brennus I would say more he exploits Aubrey's failure for his own gain, in that scenario
  215. 4:15:03 PM Uriel yeah my bad. And its some quote trying to get across the point that success and failure are not isolated events. If someone succeeds, generally speaking, someone lost.
  216. 4:15:34 PM Froggy Well. in the draft, doesn't Zhardan owe his success to the failure of Hektor, rather than forging it all on his own?
  217. 4:15:49 PM Uriel Yeah, what Brennus said. Aubrey and the EZ's loss, was Zhardans gain. It didn't give him the win. It created favourable conditions for him to win
  218. 4:16:33 PM Alexandri I got what I'm trying to say.
  219. 4:17:07 PM Alexandri It's less Zhardan is responsible for Zhardan's success, because in the case of preforming rearguard and rallying the dillusioned forces in the wake of Aubrey's defeat, any person in that specific time could do what he did.
  220. 4:17:31 PM Alexandri While in my text he's got a mind for alliances, deals, and pacts that forge the Host but end up being its downfall because he can't centralize that power.
  221. 4:17:33 PM Uriel actually that makes me think. In the OU, the legionary wars happen becauase Horus was all that kept the legions from eachothers throats, more or less. But while Hektor does do that too, his legacy of the Sacred Bands and the concept of brotherhood among the Astartes is dramatically different.
  222. 4:18:29 PM Uriel He'd still need those Alex. In the void left by Aubrey, Zhardan isn't the only person who could exploit the circumstances
  223. 4:18:32 PM Froggy I don't think anyone is proposing that you junk everything there in favour of "he just picks up the pieces after Aubrey". All I'm saying is that you could use the defeat of Aubrey's crusade as the starting point, where Zhardan wins some prestige.
  224. 4:18:42 PM Uriel he uses his mind for alliances as you suggest to come out on top of everyone else
  225. 4:19:02 PM Alexandri Then maybe I can have another warband or two do that, but he overwhelms them with his allies.
  226. 4:19:10 PM Brennus Yeah, Zhardan's name starts picking up weight because of his particularly successful performance, and then be puts down all opposition
  227. 4:19:14 PM Brennus Yeah! That sounds good
  228. 4:19:48 PM Uriel it makes his ascension more dramatic and more challenging too
  229. 4:19:51 PM Uriel which is great
  230. 4:20:26 PM Alexandri Oh shit the greentext.
  231. 4:20:29 PM Alexandri Should work on that
  232. 4:21:17 PM Froggy A lot of people are using indefinite descriptors. Alexandri, what would the other warband or two do? Brennus, what sounds good? Uriel, what makes his ascension more dramatic? :-/
  233. 4:21:32 PM TheWaywardGuardsman has quit: Client exited.
  234. 4:22:05 PM Uriel obstacles. Currently his ascension to leadership is because of the reasons, but there is no opposition really. Its Zhardan vs the environment
  235. 4:22:06 PM Alexandri It shows Zhardan's method is effective.
  236. 4:22:10 PM Brennus Alex's idea for competitor warbands
  237. 4:22:41 PM Alexandri It shows he was not a fluke.
  238. 4:22:45 PM Brennus I like the idea of other marines trying to fill the void left by Aubrey, and then Zhardan putting them down or absorbing them
  239. 4:22:46 PM Alexandri Which is what I was afraid of.
  240. 4:23:29 PM Froggy OK. So Leonidas Manisicus would be a good candidate for a competitor.
  241. 4:23:31 PM Uriel it makes me like the character more, as while everyone else is fighting over the top spot, Zhardan is going around securing the path to the top with alliances and stuff
  242. 4:24:08 PM Brennus And absorbing other strong personalities like Leonidas would explain why Zhardan can never really solidify power
  243. 4:24:42 PM Uriel playing the Stanleys at the battle of bosworth
  244. 4:24:59 PM Uriel except securing the crown for himself instead of picking the winning side
  245. 4:27:59 PM Brennus Just looking at the wiki, the Priests of the Primordial sound like an EZ successor. Maybe the pontiff is another absorb-ee?
  246. 4:28:21 PM Brennus *Pontiff
  247. 4:31:18 PM Froggy Also, regarding Zhardan building his own Empire not beig reliant on anyone else - don't you think that waiting for The Beast kinda makes him an Ork wannabe, like he's too weak to take on the Imperials himself?
  248. 4:33:16 PM Brennus I dunno, if you were a sneaky Chaos bastard, wouldn't you exploit the Greenskin menace for an easy advantage?
  249. 4:33:50 PM Uriel the greenskins must have during the heresy. Its kind of amazing you hear nothing about them in the OU at all really
  250. 4:33:52 PM Froggy Right, but any sneaky Chaos bastard could do it.
  251. 4:34:31 PM Brennus But Zhardan is the one who was able to herd the cats long enough so that enough of them could do it.
  252. 4:35:07 PM Froggy Eh. It's not as though there would be that much reluctance to hit the Imperials while they're weak, and the Cadian Gate is the main way out.
  253. 4:35:15 PM Brennus True that
  254. 4:35:19 PM Froggy Maybe he had the best spin and took credit.
  255. 4:35:30 PM Froggy But that's not particularly impressive.
  256. 4:36:30 PM Uriel Do chaos even care about empires?
  257. 4:36:51 PM Uriel they more or less become a galactic insurgency
  258. 4:38:46 PM Brennus Well, Chaos wants to posess everything, but always falls to infighting
  259. 4:39:12 PM Brennus They stay at the insurgency stage because they can't really stay together long enough to take the whole enchilada
  260. 4:39:49 PM Uriel in the long run it wants to take the galaxy, like all the factions in 40k do. But they never actually hold territory. And the OU crusades are hitting symbolic or strategic targets, but then retreating back to the Eye again
  261. 4:40:40 PM Uriel infighting plays a part, but I think they're still trying to fight the civil war, when the galaxy, and the war, has moved on
  262. 4:42:59 PM Froggy Or they're pursuing spiritual/metaphysical goals.
  263. 4:43:20 PM Uriel which is kind of fitting as the Eye fucks with time flow, so they are literally from another time period
  264. 4:43:45 PM Uriel yeah the chaos gods will it and they do it.
  265. 4:43:58 PM Brennus They are pretty damn nuts
  266. 4:44:12 PM Uriel haha the parallels with ISIS here are making me chuckle. Chaos dawla
  267. 4:44:51 PM Froggy I mean, that's the really false note in the Unstained Host history. When Zhardan says, "If they could not somehow find a way to stop fighting one another to strike back they would have the Eye of Terror be their tomb as the Imperium intended it to be," there should be fanatics who just laugh at him and walk out, or try to kill him on the spot for his lack of faith in the gods.
  268. 4:45:33 PM Uriel yeah he is a bit religiously neutral for the Eyes normal denizens
  269. 4:46:07 PM Uriel but i do like the idea of a non-religious guy being prominent. Feared even, as the gods don't smite him for his lack of faith/irreverence.
  270. 4:46:11 PM Froggy And it does't affect his dealings with the other Traitors.
  271. 4:46:30 PM Uriel the EZ most of all
  272. 4:46:59 PM Uriel I suppose Abaddon only had a passing respect for the gods, and he lead
  273. 4:47:05 PM Uriel although thats a weird example
  274. 4:47:57 PM Froggy Abaddon is chosen of the gods, I think his respect is more than passing.
  275. 4:48:27 PM Uriel I haven't read up on it, but common consensus is that he merely uses their favour. Its political and nothing more
  276. 4:48:51 PM Uriel this is on /tg/ and on a few sites like B&C etc
  277. 4:50:00 PM Brennus That was always my impression
  278. 4:50:15 PM Brennus Abby seems more interested in temporal power than religion
  279. 4:50:38 PM Uriel Off topic: if i changed the name of the 13th to Justicars, fully, and move the Children stuff to a nickname and maybe a splinter warband, is that going to annoy anyone?
  280. 4:50:59 PM Froggy Wouldn't annoy me. I'm just reading up on Abaddon right now.
  281. 4:51:50 PM Brennus Won't annoy me
  282. 4:52:19 PM Uriel cool, and cool. His Black Crusade stuff was actually eye-opening. The misunderstanding on what they are and were meant to achieve is kind of staggering when you read it.
  283. 4:53:19 PM Uriel I think people think of a great chaos incursion and think its the end of times. probably because GW puts phrases like that on it... But he's playing the long war, which is actually kind of smart. For GW standards at least
  284. 4:54:43 PM Brennus Yeah, the various menials and peasants will likely see no more than one during their life time, so it might really seem that way
  285. 4:55:30 PM Uriel yeah, 40k writes quite often in a POV fashion. Which is generally then taken for gospel by the fans. Which is doubly amusing for all the unreliable narration the setting has
  286. 4:55:43 PM Uriel you'd think people would start learning
  287. 4:56:23 PM Brennus They would, but the only STC construct available for education is an American public school
  288. 4:57:35 PM Uriel ha STC's always get me. Like, they had these machines making everything and anything. So its just a big 3d printer. But without those the Imperium is able to produce enormous battleships and power armour etc
  289. 4:57:44 PM Uriel so why do they even need the STC;s at that point?
  290. 4:57:59 PM Uriel seems like they wasted the potential there
  291. 4:58:30 PM Brennus I never really thought of that
  292. 4:59:56 PM Uriel I'd point out i'm not a fan of 40k really. I'm not sitting here thinking about this stuff in my free time lol I just kind of think about it on the spot as I type.
  293. 5:00:33 PM Brennus I don't play the table top game, but I like the universe.
  294. 5:01:08 PM Froggy The STCs generally produce more sophisticated equipment. Also, the Imperium is terrified of Abominable Intelligence, so they act very cautiously with regard to new technology.
  295. 5:01:58 PM Uriel yeah its all i really liked from when i was younger. The models were cool, but I never found a good group of players, and the stores around my way were pretty antisocial to outsiders for some reason
  296. 5:03:03 PM Brennus Oh, yeah, they are not fans of the AI. Of course I imagine the ones with the robot brains have a little bit of that, but probably only a basic version that supplements the remaining brain
  297. 5:04:34 PM Froggy It's not clear exactly how the Tech priests hurdle that one. But religious hypocrisy is a standard.
  298. 5:07:58 PM Uriel how much detail should I be getting into this greentext?
  299. 5:08:17 PM Brennus Oh, yeah, I should be doing more on that
  300. 5:08:59 PM Uriel or i suppose its more constructive to ask, what does it *need* to have
  301. 5:10:02 PM Alexandri Sorry
  302. 5:10:06 PM Alexandri Went out to eat
  303. 5:10:10 PM Alexandri ANd forgot to tell you guys
  304. 5:10:11 PM Alexandri :D
  305. 5:10:12 PM Brennus Welcome back
  306. 5:10:49 PM Arelex joined the channel.
  307. 5:10:54 PM Arelex sup
  308. 5:11:01 PM Brennus Hey, Lex is here! Howdy
  309. 5:11:20 PM Arelex hey hey hey. :)
  310. 5:11:39 PM Arelex what's shaking?
  311. 5:12:11 PM Froggy The greentext should convey the basics of the Legion. There are several examples in the thread (though the Iron Rangers one is too short and problematic besides).
  312. 5:12:20 PM Brennus We've been talking about the Unstained Host, and greentext legion summaries, and also STCs for a bit
  313. 5:12:31 PM Arelex ah
  314. 5:12:44 PM Arelex yeah, I should do one of those grentext things at some point
  315. 5:12:46 PM Alexandri >[18:33] <Froggy> Right, but any sneaky Chaos bastard could do it.
  316. 5:12:55 PM Arelex the thread where people were doing them died before i got around to it.
  317. 5:12:57 PM Alexandri Well now you're just taking it a little far.
  318. 5:13:26 PM Alexandri The Beast is not a personal...presence? That Zhardan is going to be compared to, measured to, mentally.
  319. 5:14:28 PM Froggy I don't know about that. The Beast gets the Orks (far more fractious than Chaos) together to roflstomp the Imperium from the edge of Ultima all the way across to Pacificus.
  320. 5:14:38 PM Froggy Then Zhardan is like, "Hey, maybe I could take a few worlds!"
  321. 5:14:46 PM Froggy What a guy! ;)
  322. 5:15:12 PM Uriel Zhardan should be established before WTB. He can still capitalise on the Beasts appearance
  323. 5:15:13 PM Alexandri It shows Zhardan's outward thinking mind.
  324. 5:15:31 PM Alexandri Everyone else is attempting to strike out in the Eye
  325. 5:15:38 PM Alexandri He shows them they're not limited to the Eye.
  326. 5:16:04 PM Uriel Why doesn't he just launch a full crusade then?
  327. 5:16:15 PM Uriel WTB is putting the Imperium on the ropes
  328. 5:16:23 PM Uriel why settle for scraps?
  329. 5:16:46 PM Uriel although a dual chaos/Orks incursion is probably too bleak for the Imperium
  330. 5:16:54 PM Froggy Are the other Chaos Warlords really not thinking about raiding for slaves during WTB? That sounds rather deux ex to me. :-/
  331. 5:16:59 PM Arelex "strike out in the Eye". Surely you don't mean people are actually trying to claim turf IN the Eye do you?
  332. 5:17:17 PM Arelex "turf" doesn't even exist in there, for more than a few minutes, lol.
  333. 5:17:28 PM Brennus There are planets in the eye aren't there?
  334. 5:17:32 PM Brennus The crone worlds?
  335. 5:17:35 PM Arelex occasionally.
  336. 5:17:37 PM Alexandri There are hundreds of worlds.
  337. 5:17:37 PM Uriel no, this is referencing crusades and excursions from the eye. And yeah the eye has planets in it
  338. 5:17:38 PM Alexandri No.
  339. 5:17:42 PM Arelex sometimes they're.... not though.
  340. 5:17:43 PM Alexandri There are many planets inside of the EYe.
  341. 5:17:44 PM Froggy Thousands, actually.
  342. 5:17:54 PM Alexandri Yeah Arelex you are 100% wrong here.
  343. 5:18:02 PM Arelex mmk
  344. 5:18:08 PM Uriel they're all fucked up by the warp bending into reality, but the Eye literally covers a load of sectors
  345. 5:18:27 PM Brennus Probably a good portion are not fit for living on tho
  346. 5:18:37 PM Uriel hmm ruined Eldar worlds... Aubrey might find them useful somehow
  347. 5:18:38 PM Alexandri Now I just read Lumey's talk on the Council - People do try to kill him.
  348. 5:18:41 PM Froggy "If you call that a living!" :D
  349. 5:18:44 PM Alexandri I thought that was stressed.
  350. 5:19:01 PM Alexandri He takes steps to combat it or fights them.
  351. 5:19:09 PM Arelex Well, if some Chaos dude is riding behind The Beast, then he's probably not going to find much alive to loot. He wouldn't gain much of anything by vulturing behind him.
  352. 5:19:20 PM Arelex Orks being Orks and all.
  353. 5:19:34 PM Froggy Arelex, have you read the Unstained Host page?
  354. 5:19:35 PM Alexandri That was another point I was about to make. The orks really do loot and kill everything.
  355. 5:19:44 PM Uriel I think its being proposed more of a opportunistic thing. Like looting during Katrina.
  356. 5:19:46 PM Arelex briefly, yeah.
  357. 5:20:12 PM Froggy Looting during Katrina was overplayed, but let's not get into that.
  358. 5:20:13 PM Uriel Where katrina is actually Orks hordes
  359. 5:20:55 PM Brennus I see it as less about looting and more of an attempt to overrun an already weakened foe and finish the job Hektor left
  360. 5:21:03 PM Arelex You'd get some interesting tension by trying to run in front of the Beast though. Grab what you can from the people trying to evacuate, loot the nobles fleeing the scene, and attack transports full of civilians, but try not to get too close to the storm.
  361. 5:21:26 PM Arelex Don't attack the planets themselves, but be the Scourge Of The Fearful Who Ran.
  362. 5:21:27 PM Brennus That sounds cool. Maybe Zhardan sends out small strike teams to do just that?
  363. 5:21:32 PM Brennus Like Chaos Deathwatch
  364. 5:21:43 PM Arelex Chaos gets loot, Imperium gets propaganda for DONT FUCKING RUN NEXT TIME YOU DUMBASSES.
  365. 5:21:52 PM Arelex everyone wins! :P
  366. 5:22:05 PM Uriel But as far as I understand, they aren't making any large concerted effort. Zhardan is just exploiting the chaos to grab some more worlds./systems to move his liquor cabinet a few metres closer to Terra
  367. 5:22:10 PM Froggy Again, that does sound like Zhardan is just an opportunist, rather than an Iron-Willed Forger Of Empire.
  368. 5:22:15 PM Brennus So they loot and pillage before WTB, let the Orks punch up the Imperium, and come back after for a kidney shot
  369. 5:22:21 PM Alexandri Alright fine.
  370. 5:22:30 PM Alexandri I'm deleting the Unstained page. We'll work something else out.
  371. 5:22:37 PM Arelex Forging an empire anywhere near the Beast is a bad idea. He might very well just dispatch some Boyz to smash ya.
  372. 5:22:41 PM Froggy :(
  373. 5:22:44 PM Brennus Nooooo!
  374. 5:22:49 PM Alexandri This is my fifth idea.
  375. 5:22:56 PM Uriel .... that seems a bit drastic
  376. 5:22:56 PM Alexandri And it's the fifth time it hasn't worked.
  377. 5:22:57 PM Froggy That is not a constructive response to criticism.
  378. 5:23:08 PM Arelex But, mayhaps he could set up some "warp pullers" on devastated worlds as traps/Chaos bunkers/eventual pulling planets into the warp?
  379. 5:23:27 PM Alexandri I've attempted to answer your critique but I have not provided proper answers, thus the text is too flawed.
  380. 5:23:38 PM Alexandri Zhardan is not a good character. The Unstained do not work.
  381. 5:23:45 PM Alexandri I'll keep the Members for other warbands later.
  382. 5:23:51 PM Uriel we're talking about ideas on writing. There is infinite possibilities.
  383. 5:24:03 PM Uriel throwing it all out because one part doesnt work is ridiculous
  384. 5:24:17 PM Alexandri It's not one part.
  385. 5:24:21 PM Arelex Hmmm...
  386. 5:24:22 PM Alexandri It's the very themes I'm trying to work with.
  387. 5:24:28 PM Alexandri In the article and the primary character.
  388. 5:24:38 PM Arelex Chaos doesn't build empires, really. Not in the way we usually think of it.
  389. 5:24:43 PM Brennus Well, you did say it was a first draft
  390. 5:24:49 PM Arelex But, Chaos does appeal to the impoverished, scared, tired masses.
  391. 5:24:53 PM Uriel seriously man, get a grip. You have a lot on the page, why would you throw it all away over a detail? Thats not productive in the slightest. Lets just brainstorm ways to make it work. Thats what this IRC was for no?
  392. 5:24:53 PM Alexandri Black Legion builds an Empire you shitting me?
  393. 5:24:56 PM Brennus That's what this brainstorming is.
  394. 5:24:57 PM Alexandri So do the Crimson Corsairs.
  395. 5:25:02 PM Brennus Working on a second
  396. 5:25:02 PM Alexandri Go read some Chaos Arelex. Please.
  397. 5:25:15 PM Arelex Mayhaps Zhardan builds an empire, not of planets, but of refugees/slaves?
  398. 5:25:33 PM Alexandri That's the Dread Banners.
  399. 5:25:50 PM Alexandri Huge swarm of billions strong Lost and Damned.
  400. 5:25:51 PM Arelex He swings in near the Beast, lying/cheating/coercing/swaying people to join his cause, and flee in his direction instead of the Imperium, and then before they know it, Chaos ensues and they can't escape?
  401. 5:25:58 PM Arelex idk.
  402. 5:26:06 PM Alexandri It's not the beast Arelex.
  403. 5:26:16 PM Uriel Okay everyone wait a second
  404. 5:26:32 PM Arelex [20:25] <Alexandri> Go read some Chaos Arelex. Please. Aaight, later bro.
  405. 5:26:36 PM Alexandri Lumey has an issue with my idea Zhardan establishes himself without the assistance of Aubrey in any measure, which he has shown me is impossible because Zhardan does gain at the loss of others.
  406. 5:26:42 PM Alexandri No man don't leave.
  407. 5:26:59 PM Uriel jesus. Everyone calm down, and stop for a second.
  408. 5:27:06 PM Uriel we good?
  409. 5:27:09 PM Uriel cool.
  410. 5:27:11 PM Uriel Alex:
  411. 5:27:21 PM Uriel does it '*need* to be during WTB?
  412. 5:27:27 PM Alexandri It's not during.
  413. 5:27:30 PM Alexandri It was never during.
  414. 5:27:33 PM Alexandri It's after.
  415. 5:28:17 PM Froggy Note that if it's after, the Imperium gets a huge amount of breathing room before the Beast.
  416. 5:28:17 PM Uriel okay does it have to be after? Why can't he raid for territory well before WTB?
  417. 5:28:32 PM Uriel yeah thats what i was keeping in mind
  418. 5:28:38 PM Uriel although that space could hold Aubrey
  419. 5:28:43 PM Uriel *could*...
  420. 5:28:46 PM Froggy (Prior suggestion, which had some support, was to have Aubrey carry out an incursion before WTB and fail.)
  421. 5:29:05 PM Alexandri Because it's not the territory that's important.
  422. 5:29:15 PM Alexandri He has no intention on keeping that territory or anything.
  423. 5:29:21 PM Uriel that might be too much jobbing for Aubrey. Or maybe not, he seems to like it lol
  424. 5:29:29 PM Alexandri He's trying to show the combined might of the warbands can carry on the day.
  425. 5:29:36 PM Uriel @Alex - what *IS* important then/
  426. 5:29:44 PM Alexandri Oh yes that's another thing, Aubrey failing shows they CAN'T win together.
  427. 5:29:45 PM Alexandri OKAY
  428. 5:29:49 PM Alexandri FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR
  429. 5:30:11 PM Uriel so its just a politico-military demonstration?
  430. 5:30:14 PM Alexandri That's what the First Incursion is. Showing all the scattered states can rally behind a bigger one to be a unified whole.
  431. 5:30:21 PM Alexandri That kicks ass.
  432. 5:30:46 PM Uriel essentially pitching the idea that united is stronger etc to the rest of the Eye of Terror?
  433. 5:30:55 PM Alexandri Yes.
  434. 5:31:35 PM Uriel Okay well that sort of thing can be demonstrated anywhere, it doesn't have to be tied to the Beast or Aubrey
  435. 5:31:43 PM Alexandri I feel I've only poisoned this discussion and the reason I said I'd delete the Host is because their parts are better than their set up to me.
  436. 5:31:55 PM Alexandri I want to move past failed ideas to go to something better.
  437. 5:31:58 PM Brennus Perhaps we can have Aubrey try it with JUST the EZ and successors, to sort of give Zhardan something to reference? Like "This is what happens when we don't work together you dummies."
  438. 5:32:10 PM Uriel we've done enough scrapping ideas. Lets try to actually see one through and make it work
  439. 5:32:46 PM Uriel Okay. The problem with Zhardan right now as a character is Aubrey.
  440. 5:33:04 PM Uriel We need to tie Aubreys loose ends up, to set the scene for Zhardan to arrive
  441. 5:33:41 PM Uriel Lets look at the facts = Aubrey is one of few surviving and present primarchs after the Heresy, who is inside the Eye.
  442. 5:34:21 PM Alexandri I don't think sticking to this idea is going to be good guys, both Lumey and Arelex are gone right now because of me.
  443. 5:34:25 PM Uriel he was Hektors 'protege' and his successor
  444. 5:34:41 PM Alexandri I don't get the feeling he was Hektor's protege at all.
  445. 5:34:45 PM Alexandri Have you read the Heralds page?
  446. 5:34:54 PM Alexandri Aubrey is set up more as an insidious hijacker.
  447. 5:34:57 PM Uriel its something Lumey has said in the past
  448. 5:35:04 PM Uriel during the GC period
  449. 5:35:06 PM Froggy I'm not gone, I'm just letting this cool off a bit.
  450. 5:35:17 PM Brennus I think Lex's computer bluescreened
  451. 5:35:18 PM Alexandri Someone who takes the political movement and turns it into a religious takeover.
  452. 5:35:25 PM Alexandri He left.
  453. 5:35:40 PM Uriel waywards bluescreened
  454. 5:35:46 PM Uriel Lex is listed as still here for me
  455. 5:35:51 PM Alexandri Beautiful.
  456. 5:35:55 PM Brennus Oh, whoops. I get confused on the skype
  457. 5:35:58 PM Alexandri Now the name is unusuable too.
  458. 5:36:04 PM Uriel What?
  459. 5:36:12 PM Uriel ALEX, for god sake calm down and breathe man
  460. 5:36:14 PM Alexandri Check the thread.
  461. 5:37:09 PM Uriel Meh, names get meaning after. The gods use certain words, but they don't have patents on them
  462. 5:37:13 PM Froggy OK. I move that we give the Unstained Host another week of development and discuss it again next meeting.
  463. 5:37:45 PM Uriel I think they have potential, and scrapping them is silly. Alex has obviously done a lot of work on them
  464. 5:38:00 PM Alexandri It's not important what amount of work I do.
  465. 5:38:05 PM Alexandri I just want to do something that works.
  466. 5:38:21 PM Alexandri I've wanted to work on the Not!Black Legion for a long, long time now.
  467. 5:38:31 PM Uriel well you need to see it through and not throw it all away when something isn't exactly right the first time or ten
  468. 5:38:41 PM Froggy Yeah, but this discussion has been too heated and largely unproductive.
  469. 5:38:54 PM Alexandri I'm just getting protective of my ideas.
  470. 5:39:00 PM Uriel thats understandable
  471. 5:39:10 PM Froggy Take another week. Consider some of the points made. Redraft and we'll come back to it next weekend.
  472. 5:39:18 PM Brennus Letting it cool down sounds like a smart plan
  473. 5:39:19 PM Alexandri I have no idea.
  474. 5:39:22 PM Alexandri How I could do that.
  475. 5:39:36 PM Alexandri I'd rather we fix Zhardan now, probably by bringing in Aubrey.
  476. 5:39:42 PM Alexandri I think I've gotten WHY I was opposed to Aubrey
  477. 5:39:47 PM Alexandri In order to introduce Zhardan
  478. 5:39:54 PM Alexandri You'd have to do a preamble about Aubrey's incursion.
  479. 5:40:07 PM Froggy You have about a century of downtime between the two, maybe more.
  480. 5:40:24 PM Alexandri Aren't we going with the rearguard action?
  481. 5:40:29 PM Froggy checks
  482. 5:41:14 PM Froggy If we went roughly on the OU Black Crusade TL, there'd be 800 years between Aubrey's (1st) Crusade and Zhardan's War (2nd BC).
  483. 5:41:26 PM Froggy And the rearguard/L-V suggestion was just that.
  484. 5:41:29 PM Froggy A suggestion.
  485. 5:41:45 PM Froggy I'm fine with giving that role to Manisicus and having Zhardan overcome him.
  486. 5:41:52 PM Alexandri I was reading it more as a requirement to bridge Zhardan and Aubrey.
  487. 5:42:01 PM Alexandri As that seemed the wished intent.
  488. 5:42:11 PM Alexandri To give Aubrey more clout in post-Heresy Legionary politics.
  489. 5:42:22 PM Froggy The intent is:
  490. 5:42:31 PM Froggy 1. Don't leave too much "dead air" for the Imperium.
  491. 5:42:39 PM Froggy 2. Wrap up Aubrey's story.
  492. 5:43:08 PM Uriel I'm out guys. I will likely miss next weeks session. Catch you later.
  493. 5:43:13 PM Brennus Later Uriel
  494. 5:43:22 PM Froggy Later.
  495. 5:43:40 PM Alexandri To me I thought the dead air was going to be taking back the splintering fiefs, the small kingdoms, and the xenos realms that spawn in the mayhem of the Heresy.
  496. 5:43:50 PM Alexandri Like that period is not even a little elaborated upon.
  497. 5:43:53 PM Alexandri In the OU
  498. 5:43:55 PM Brennus The way Aubrey described his crusade to me the last time he talked about it was basically engineered to take him out of play
  499. 5:44:41 PM Brennus He suggested having Brennus kill him, when I had only intended to seriously cripple him or drive him into the warp and wander forever
  500. 5:44:47 PM Froggy In the OU, there's the First Black Crusade.
  501. 5:45:34 PM Alexandri I like wandering forever.
  502. 5:45:46 PM Alexandri Gives an opening for perhaps Aubrey-Elenkor teamup.
  503. 5:45:49 PM Alexandri ....what did I just say.
  504. 5:46:16 PM Uriel has quit: Ping timeout.
  505. 5:46:46 PM Brennus That would be something
  506. 5:47:26 PM Froggy I think throwing him into the warp with Roman is fine, but we could do otherwise.
  507. 5:47:46 PM Alexandri That's further down the line.
  508. 5:47:51 PM Alexandri But there's no reason to limit possibilities.
  509. 5:47:59 PM Froggy I also understand that Wayward wanted a "Lion's Crusade" from Cromwald, possibly ending up with Abdul Al-Sherar throwing down with Cromwald.
  510. 5:48:15 PM Alexandri I'm sorry for wanting to scrap the Host, but even writing it I mentally prepared to get rid of every bit.
  511. 5:48:24 PM Alexandri Stick with what worked, moved around.
  512. 5:48:30 PM Alexandri I only ever wanted the themes to work.
  513. 5:48:43 PM Alexandri And it felt like that just wasn't going to happen.
  514. 5:49:27 PM Brennus It's cool dude. We all know how that can feel
  515. 5:50:20 PM Alexandri Alright Froggy just tell be bluntly what you think of the Host as-is and what you think they need.
  516. 5:50:29 PM Alexandri I'd rather just know that up fron.
  517. 5:50:33 PM Brennus I think the Lions are a good choice for a post-heresy Crusade. Their speed and brutality are a perfect fit
  518. 5:50:34 PM Alexandri front*.
  519. 5:51:26 PM Froggy I think they're generally fine. The writing could be tighter and there needs to be more friction with the other elements of Chaos. I also think that the Traitors need to get more shit done before WTB.
  520. 5:53:18 PM Alexandri Okay.
  521. 5:54:30 PM Alexandri On the Council of Medica
  522. 5:54:40 PM Alexandri I felt the whole history with Zhardan was already getting bloated.
  523. 5:55:01 PM Alexandri So I just summed up how violatile it was with the opening involving people literally taking pot shots across the room at one another for insults.
  524. 5:55:02 PM Froggy Medica comes across as very weak.
  525. 5:55:31 PM Froggy It sounds like there's this terrible situation and then Zhardan gives a speech and it's fine.
  526. 5:55:51 PM Alexandri It lasts months.
  527. 5:55:55 PM Brennus There was an earlier suggestion made that some warbands attack or walk away? Maybe Zhardan gets more than 8, but that number is whittled down
  528. 5:55:56 PM Alexandri People come in and out.
  529. 5:56:05 PM Alexandri Maybe I just really had a bad time explaining that.
  530. 5:56:27 PM Alexandri There are 8 major players and dozens of smaller ones.
  531. 5:56:32 PM Brennus Ahhh
  532. 5:56:41 PM Brennus Yeah, I don't think that came across
  533. 5:56:44 PM Alexandri These smaller ones get fully absorbed, the Constituent Members stay unique even though they wear their colors.
  534. 5:58:13 PM Alexandri ALso I thought about putting something like
  535. 5:58:21 PM Alexandri Zhardan has it be open season on any warband that leaves.
  536. 5:58:39 PM Froggy Maybe it would be better to take the feedback from this session and work up another draft?
  537. 5:58:39 PM Alexandri So after a few get swarmed by the warbands sitting around Medica they stay to not get fucked over.
  538. 5:58:44 PM Brennus Which makes sense.
  539. 6:00:50 PM Brennus And I'll be posting the notes on the forum again, so you'll be able to look over this as you need Alex
  540. 6:02:13 PM Alexandri jesus fuck shit dick niggers Arelex's actual page is like 85% outdated/wrong.
  541. 6:02:13 PM Alexandri [8:00:11 PM] Mech(Arelex): dat's gonna need some edits. and maybe some windex.
  542. 6:02:35 PM Alexandri Maybe I'm just fatigued because my mind is slow
  543. 6:02:44 PM Alexandri I want to take your feedback RIGHT NOW
  544. 6:02:46 PM Alexandri And work on it.
  545. 6:02:51 PM Alexandri Maybe
  546. 6:02:58 PM Alexandri It'll do better with a summary of events on the Host's page
  547. 6:03:06 PM Alexandri And having a deeper elaboration on Zhardan's?
  548. 6:03:15 PM Alexandri Because I feel the page, already, is getting too big.
  549. 6:03:21 PM Alexandri And we haven't even gotten to all members and the planets.
  550. 6:03:38 PM Brennus That sounds wise. Zhardan should have his own page anyway
  551. 6:04:04 PM Arelex Keeping a properly limited scope is often the difference between success and failure, fo sho.
  552. 6:04:08 PM Froggy Well, basically, it feels like you don't want to work on anything but your own stuff right now and you're really sensitive about it. That's not conducive to a good discussion. I think the odds of changing subject and talking fruitfully about something else are higher than chaging the mood on the Host.
  553. 6:05:10 PM Alexandri I was focusing in on one thing but I'm better now
  554. 6:05:18 PM Alexandri And I thought the Host was going to be a group thing?
  555. 6:05:23 PM Alexandri Should I switch to something else?
  556. 6:05:41 PM Brennus Oh, I thought you were intending them to be your thing
  557. 6:05:48 PM Froggy Alex, you told us earlier you'd wanted to write not-Black Legion for a long time.
  558. 6:05:56 PM Froggy You wanted to write this thing.
  559. 6:06:00 PM Froggy There's nothing wrong with that.
  560. 6:06:01 PM Alexandri And see what the othersd o with it.
  561. 6:06:15 PM Alexandri I wanted to lay out a frame work for others to latch onto and add.
  562. 6:06:22 PM Froggy All I'm asking you to do is put it down right now and talk about another thing.
  563. 6:06:26 PM Alexandri Okay.
  564. 6:06:29 PM Alexandri I will.
  565. 6:06:42 PM Alexandri I just thought it'd serve the group better if we got it resolved sooner.
  566. 6:06:43 PM Froggy OK.
  567. 6:06:56 PM Froggy We don't need to be impatient.
  568. 6:07:05 PM Froggy So. Brennus.
  569. 6:07:11 PM Brennus Yes?
  570. 6:07:20 PM Froggy We touched base on Legio Canem on the forum. Any thoughts on that?
  571. 6:07:43 PM Alexandri Legion Canem?
  572. 6:07:48 PM Alexandri I don't believe I saw that.
  573. 6:08:13 PM Froggy Currently a Titan Legion without much detail.
  574. 6:08:35 PM Alexandri Traitor or Loyalist? Are they invovled anything important?
  575. 6:08:55 PM Brennus It was in my Ostium thread. I have not had any ideas lately on them, except for possibly incorporating that specific theme of tech heresy you mentioned in that other thread
  576. 6:08:57 PM Froggy Loyalists fighting at Ostium.
  577. 6:09:27 PM Brennus Yes, they are sort of the replacement for the Entombed, maybe. Probably they are mostly warhounds
  578. 6:09:30 PM Froggy http://hektor-heresy.forumotion.co.uk/t45-mechanicum-tech-controversies
  579. 6:09:37 PM Brennus Maybe a few bigger variants, but not many
  580. 6:09:41 PM Alexandri A Titan Legion widdled down by the Great Crusade reduced to two mighty engines with a swarm of Skitarii to augment their strength?
  581. 6:09:51 PM Alexandri A large battalion of Warhounds but no bigger engines?
  582. 6:10:07 PM Froggy So are you thinking that Canem go Traitor after Ostium?
  583. 6:10:11 PM Alexandri Super fucking weird Techno-Mystics with Priests who think the pilots of the Titans are sons of the Omnissiah?
  584. 6:10:20 PM Arelex Are Legio Canem from the OU, or our AU?
  585. 6:10:27 PM Froggy AU guys.
  586. 6:10:30 PM Arelex mmk
  587. 6:10:59 PM Brennus Skitarii I like very much, I wanted to incorporate non-titan mechanicum forces too. It might be interesting for them to go traitor
  588. 6:11:11 PM Brennus They lost so much at Ostium that ferdiad is able to pull them to his side
  589. 6:11:15 PM Brennus *lose
  590. 6:11:39 PM Froggy If you go with their Forge World having that tech controversy, they might swing around internally.
  591. 6:11:45 PM Arelex It'd be funny if the "Canines" got leashed by their Skitarii, since usually the Titans rule the roost. I'm imagining some Warhounds riding into battle with hundreds of Skitarii on top, all clinging to iron chains welded to the back.
  592. 6:12:00 PM Arelex Like some kind of wierd mechano-populo-communist uprising.
  593. 6:12:04 PM Brennus OOooooo
  594. 6:12:08 PM Brennus I like that Lex
  595. 6:12:09 PM Arelex With Warhounds.
  596. 6:13:05 PM Arelex I think the one thing that would have to be examined is how independently the Skitarii can act from their Mechanicus overlords, but there's always the good old "Tzeentch though it'd be funny to give the servitors their brains back" method.
  597. 6:13:11 PM Brennus Lumey, I imagine at first is a slightly less severe version, but the Heresy exacerbates it. So they can feature it while still being able to work with the Imperium, especially if they are with a Primarch who is regularly in the space boonies
  598. 6:13:38 PM Brennus The cult that is
  599. 6:13:46 PM Froggy My only issue with using the Tech Guard like that is that the FW material for them is really vague right now.
  600. 6:14:07 PM Brennus Hmm. That's an objection I can't really answer since I don't know the game...
  601. 6:14:07 PM Alexandri Some portrayals of Skitarii show them as having NO
  602. 6:14:09 PM Alexandri INDEPENDENT
  603. 6:14:10 PM Alexandri THOUGHT
  604. 6:14:11 PM Arelex Well, maybe have it be the ultimate reversal of furtune then, and have the actual Servitors, not even the Skitarii, take command?
  605. 6:14:12 PM Froggy It sorta implies that the Skitarii are under the rule of Mars, but that might be in the same way that all Forge Worlds are. :-/
  606. 6:14:24 PM Froggy BUT you could use the Taghmata Omnissiah.
  607. 6:14:26 PM Alexandri To the point that if you took over the command central you could shut them all down.
  608. 6:14:35 PM Alexandri Titans are loyal to Mars.
  609. 6:14:38 PM Alexandri And have skitarii attached.
  610. 6:14:47 PM Brennus I would think so Froggy. True Alexandri, but sometimes they have at least a modicum thereof.
  611. 6:14:49 PM Froggy Titans are loyal to their Forge World.
  612. 6:14:54 PM Alexandri They are?
  613. 6:14:59 PM Froggy Yep.
  614. 6:15:14 PM Arelex Titans are chained to their Forges, but I always thought they were only baaaarely controlled, being enraged near-AI and all?
  615. 6:15:14 PM Alexandri Huh.
  616. 6:15:16 PM Froggy Techguard aren't automatically attached to them in the pre-Reformation period, either.
  617. 6:15:25 PM Alexandri Oh.
  618. 6:15:26 PM Alexandri Right.
  619. 6:15:28 PM Alexandri I just remembered.
  620. 6:15:34 PM Alexandri That's an excellent point.
  621. 6:15:37 PM Froggy Arelex, I was sorta speaking about the Legions, not the machines.
  622. 6:15:42 PM Alexandri Taghmata might be better then.
  623. 6:15:51 PM Brennus Well, if we go with Arelex's suggestion, the Titans are more communal property, so it makes sense for a bunch of guys to come with them
  624. 6:16:00 PM Arelex yeah, the Legions are more directly linked to Mars.
  625. 6:16:06 PM Arelex politically and such
  626. 6:16:07 PM Froggy But you've got some issues about the Princeps and Moderatii.
  627. 6:16:08 PM Brennus I'm trying to find more info about these Taghmata
  628. 6:16:22 PM Alexandri They're basically a blanket term
  629. 6:16:28 PM Alexandri For anything not Skitarii that a Forgeworld has.
  630. 6:16:45 PM Alexandri All local forces.
  631. 6:16:46 PM Brennus Oh!
  632. 6:16:57 PM Brennus So, like, weird unique robo suits or something?
  633. 6:17:15 PM Alexandri And workers, and all sorts of other things.
  634. 6:17:15 PM Brennus Crazy vehicles with DAOT weapons
  635. 6:17:24 PM Brennus That might work better yeah
  636. 6:17:29 PM Alexandri That's one example, yes.
  637. 6:17:32 PM Brennus I found a pdf, I will read up on them
  638. 6:17:52 PM Froggy http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus#Pre-Heresy_Mechanicum_Forge_World_Hierarchy
  639. 6:17:52 PM Alexandri http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/mech-tag-omn.jpg
  640. 6:18:06 PM Froggy http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/6/6d/Belicosa_Potentis_Omnissiah.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140326225433
  641. 6:18:38 PM Brennus Well, having only a few titans, mostly warhounds, and a bunch of battle robots of various designs would be good. If I can invent some kind of character with a custom battle suit I can preserve the "shield broken by big robot" moment I liked writing
  642. 6:19:04 PM Froggy So the Taghmata are normally a militia, but you could have the Titans subordinate to them through sufficiently clever writing.
  643. 6:19:21 PM Arelex In any case, my idea was simply that some Warhounds get taken over by either the Mechanicus grunt troopers/lower techpriests, or the actual Servitors themselves in a communo-zombie-robot uprising. That's the sum total of that idea, I wasn't suggesting anything more complex than that.
  644. 6:19:58 PM Brennus Well, hopefully I'm clever enough ;) I gotcha, Arelex. I just liked the idea, so I sort of ran with it in my head
  645. 6:20:02 PM Arelex So if it works, happy to be of service, if not that's cool.
  646. 6:21:07 PM Brennus What would be the title of the chief Tech dude in charge of this kind of force?
  647. 6:21:12 PM Froggy Yeah, the idea is a good one, we just need to be clear on the specifics.
  648. 6:21:21 PM Brennus Of course
  649. 6:21:21 PM Froggy For the Taghmata?
  650. 6:21:23 PM Brennus yes
  651. 6:21:25 PM Brennus For them
  652. 6:21:50 PM Froggy It would be a Magos or Archmagos, unless the Forge World had its own idiosyncratic nomenclature.
  653. 6:22:17 PM Froggy That was too many syllables, sorry. First coffee of the day has hit. :)
  654. 6:22:21 PM Brennus We all know how much I like idiosyncratic nomenclature. But I will probably stick with Archmagos, that sounds good
  655. 6:22:22 PM Alexandri I'd say have it be a deal between whoever controls the Titans.
  656. 6:22:35 PM Alexandri Bribes, offers, other such.
  657. 6:23:04 PM Brennus So maybe a dual system of leadership? A leader of the Skitarii and various smaller forces, and a leader of the titans
  658. 6:23:07 PM Froggy The Titans are under the authority of the Archmagos Intendant (or whatever)
  659. 6:23:32 PM Brennus Haha, it's cool Froggy. I regularly edit down my letters at work for syllable count.
  660. 6:25:41 PM Arelex Probably an Archmagos, then. I can't imagine any regular Magos getting assigned management of such a force, and not at least getting a fancier title.
  661. 6:25:53 PM Arelex even a single titan is a pretty big deal.
  662. 6:26:46 PM Brennus Right, yeah. Perhaps a pair of Archmagi, one with charge over the Titans and one with rule over all the other forces
  663. 6:26:55 PM Brennus I already said that earlier, blegh
  664. 6:27:16 PM Brennus Can anything in the Mechanicum be equal to, but not the same as, an Archmagos?
  665. 6:27:57 PM Arelex Genetors are technically distinct, but of about the same rank. But you can also look at them as just Archmagi of a different discipline. Plenty of cogheads shun them though, just on principle, so they don't always work together.
  666. 6:28:50 PM Arelex But "Archmagos" is an extremely broad catchall term, IIRC.
  667. 6:29:09 PM Arelex So there may not be much that's not under that umbrella in some fashion.
  668. 6:29:13 PM Brennus So probably my best bet is to come up with two different Archmagos subtitles
  669. 6:29:35 PM Arelex seems reasonable
  670. 6:30:11 PM Brennus Oh, BTW, what do you guys think of "Pit Hounds" for their nickname?
  671. 6:30:41 PM Alexandri I think that one's already taken in the OU
  672. 6:30:50 PM Brennus Damn
  673. 6:31:25 PM Brennus Hmm, I can't find a reference, but maybe they are a minor Legio?
  674. 6:32:29 PM Arelex Chaindogs? Whiphounds? (Freedom Riders lololololololol)
  675. 6:32:45 PM Arelex Cog Masters?
  676. 6:32:58 PM Alexandri Cog-Mastiffs
  677. 6:33:18 PM Alexandri Named after Cyber-Mastiffs
  678. 6:33:23 PM Brennus Hmmmmm
  679. 6:33:27 PM Brennus That's not bad
  680. 6:34:21 PM Arelex "Most Honorable and Righteous Democratic People's Republic Of Skitariaa And Claiming Territorial Regions of Various Titans"? (Go full North Korea on that bitch, cause freed peasants love them some pompous titles)
  681. 6:34:29 PM Brennus Hahahahaha
  682. 6:34:34 PM Arelex :P
  683. 6:35:24 PM Arelex if this Titan Legion is going to be a relatively minor story element, might be a good place to go with some humor, perhaps.
  684. 6:35:50 PM Brennus Well, if they are the TK support at Ostium they have a relatively important place
  685. 6:35:51 PM Alexandri I'd recommend against that.
  686. 6:36:00 PM Arelex mmk
  687. 6:36:08 PM Brennus But I'm still not even sure why the Entombed aren't there any more
  688. 6:36:12 PM Alexandri Because this is a no fun allowed zone Arelex.
  689. 6:36:28 PM Alexandri If we have too much enjoyment the Sinister Liege may be summoned.
  690. 6:37:41 PM Froggy I think there are more in-jokes in the Gaspard Lumey bio than any of the other Primarchs.
  691. 6:37:43 PM Brennus Maybe they have a really long title in their world's own language, but Brennus gives them something short in a rare moment of impatience
  692. 6:38:22 PM Arelex Whatever you guys think is best is good with me. I'
  693. 6:38:28 PM Arelex m not too worried. :)
  694. 6:38:39 PM Froggy What's their Forge World like, Brennus?
  695. 6:39:11 PM Brennus Hmm...well, if they are in some sort of "liberated lower class" status, my first thought is that they are recovering from some sort of ecological crisis
  696. 6:39:43 PM Brennus So there might be scarce resources, and that would make the people hardy and sort of agressive with what they think of as "theirs". But things are getting better for them
  697. 6:39:51 PM Brennus Right up until the Heresy happens
  698. 6:40:33 PM Brennus Perhaps that's why they don't have larger engines; they COULD field them if they had the right stuff, and eventually they decay into uselessness
  699. 6:41:43 PM Arelex Maybe they just don't have the knowledge to keep the big machines running under the stress of war, so they don't bother with them.
  700. 6:41:45 PM Froggy Well... a Titan Legion without Battle Titans is a very small player.
  701. 6:42:12 PM Froggy Like, obviously they shouldn't have Emperors, but there's room between that and the Warhound.
  702. 6:42:18 PM Brennus They could have a few, maybe, and like Arelex said they lack the knowledge to repair others
  703. 6:42:46 PM Brennus I keep looking things up, I have so many tabs open right now
  704. 6:43:01 PM Arelex Or maybe they have some of the bigger ones, they just can't get them up and running again, since the resources needed to get one Warlord/Emperor running are many times greater than a Warhound?
  705. 6:43:05 PM Froggy What's their relationship like with Mars?
  706. 6:44:19 PM Arelex Always amusing to have a trumped up little dictatorship trying to aspire beyond its means. North Korea wants the fusion bomb, but it can't get to it, lol. Argentina wanted the Falkands, but it couldn't handle the Exocets and such. That sort of thing.
  707. 6:44:42 PM Brennus I really haven't thought about that Froggy. I'm not terribly familiar with the Mars in this era
  708. 6:45:27 PM Brennus Haha, yes Arelex. They want to have an Imperator class titan, but they can't fix it
  709. 6:45:31 PM Froggy The Martian Parliament is keen to bring the Forge Worlds to heel, but some of them buck the system.
  710. 6:45:59 PM Brennus I imagine galactic distance is a major factor in their success at bucking it
  711. 6:46:23 PM Arelex Quick side note, could this work for Arelex's archatoech armor, do you think? http://orig06.deviantart.net/5bd9/f/2010/108/e/4/poweraromor_by_progv.jpg
  712. 6:46:24 PM Froggy Or diplomatic/material strength.
  713. 6:46:57 PM Arelex Cause I'm gonna have to do some major slashing, burning, and repairing on his page soon, now that I've gone back and reviewd it.
  714. 6:47:37 PM Brennus That mostly works, but I don't think he should have a gun arm
  715. 6:47:48 PM Arelex any particular reason?
  716. 6:48:11 PM Brennus Frankly it was a gut reaction, it jsut seems...too over the top for Arelex?
  717. 6:48:52 PM Arelex Huh. That's an interesting way to look at it. I had always assumed his "tech stuff" was pretty over the top, in general.
  718. 6:49:05 PM Brennus Well Froggy, Brennus is supposed to be a fair diplomat (not as good as he thinks tho) so that combined with his distance from Mars could allow for a fair deal of heresy.
  719. 6:49:33 PM Brennus Well, Arelex strikes me as a "reasonable" Primarch, and arm guns just don't jive with my image of that
  720. 6:49:45 PM Brennus As opposed to an "impulsive" or "emotional" Primarch
  721. 6:49:52 PM Froggy Best not to use the term heresy. Controversies, things that aren't quite outside the Martian faith but are still radical, are much better.
  722. 6:50:04 PM Brennus Gotcha
  723. 6:50:22 PM Arelex What makes arm guns an impulsive or emotional idea?
  724. 6:51:01 PM Brennus A hand can hold a gun and do other things. Having a whole arm taken up by a gun doesn't seem like good long term planning
  725. 6:51:50 PM Arelex well, the armor is combat gear. In general, Arelex isn't trying to perform salvage operations in the middle of combat, he'd get other tools for that job.
  726. 6:52:49 PM Brennus Is it supposed to be a representation of that suit of super armor he builds, or a different thing?
  727. 6:52:59 PM Brennus The one he makes 10 copies of
  728. 6:54:30 PM Arelex This would be his own personal armor. The 10 copies are less than his own Primarch armor, but more than the Terminator armor they started as.
  729. 6:55:11 PM Arelex Basically, they're moderately boosted Termie armors, that will regenerate over time if blown to shit, kinda like Necrons.
  730. 6:55:40 PM Brennus I see
  731. 6:56:17 PM Brennus Hmm, well, if it is just combat gear I suppose it works
  732. 6:56:29 PM Arelex Statwise, they'd be like Terminator armor with somewhat higher toughness/defense/whatever the appropriate tabletop stat is. Offense remains the same, regeneration is a fluff thing, rather than a tabletop effect.
  733. 6:57:06 PM Brennus I imagine his armor is significantly more powerful than just that
  734. 6:57:43 PM Alexandri Watching Dota Internationale
  735. 6:58:19 PM Arelex That's how I had always imagined it, yeah. Originally, I had kinda wanted Arelex to drive a Knight Titan kind of thing, and be the "Mechwarrior Primarch" as his "cool thing". But, having really tough armor seemed good enough.
  736. 6:58:52 PM Arelex And in this aspect of it, it would have an inbuilt gun, and an inbuilt powerfist/gauntlet thing. If I go with that image.
  737. 6:59:45 PM Brennus Inbuilt power fist is always a good plan
  738. 7:00:10 PM Arelex It works with the killing of a Warboss I'd already written in, too.
  739. 7:02:08 PM Brennus What warboss is this now?
  740. 7:02:37 PM Arelex Overfiend of Octarius.
  741. 7:02:58 PM Arelex Him and the entire Legion go at it, for the Imperium to claim the lower Sagittarius Arm.
  742. 7:03:13 PM Arelex Arelex gets shot a lot.
  743. 7:03:19 PM Brennus Uh huh
  744. 7:03:54 PM Brennus Does the armor heal/sustain him?
  745. 7:04:08 PM Arelex No, it just keeps him from being all the way dead.
  746. 7:04:24 PM Arelex It doesn't have very clearly defined stats at the moment, the ones that exist are extremely old and out of date.
  747. 7:04:36 PM Arelex And were known to be incomplete.
  748. 7:05:45 PM Brennus Stuff almost nobody understands
  749. 7:05:52 PM Arelex I have several other options I may post on skype here in a little bit, since it's a better place for showing multiple images.
  750. 7:06:03 PM Brennus True
  751. 7:06:12 PM Arelex I've been searching for a properly inspirational image for Arelex's full body shot for a long time, basically.
  752. 7:06:16 PM Brennus Hey Froggy, do you have a Skype? We have a group chat goin
  753. 7:07:20 PM Froggy Well, the point of the IRC chat was to have something that any anon could join, rather than vanishing off into the back halls and doing our own thing.
  754. 7:07:27 PM Froggy So while I do have Skype.
  755. 7:07:35 PM Froggy I don't think that going off there to chat is a good idea.
  756. 7:07:41 PM Froggy I mean, if there's images to discuss
  757. 7:07:45 PM Froggy There is this image board I know of.
  758. 7:08:37 PM Arelex posting images on 4chan always seemed kinda cumbersome, based on all the storytines and comic dumps i've seen, but yeah, i suppose.
  759. 7:08:49 PM Brennus Images on 4chan are cumbersome
  760. 7:08:55 PM Arelex I just figured this was low priority enough that skype would be ok.
  761. 7:09:01 PM Brennus But they do have the advantage of being more easily available
  762. 7:10:29 PM Brennus Are any of you guys posting in the thread? I seem to be the only one with a name on
  763. 7:12:11 PM Froggy I posted a little. But mainly it's talk about the UH name, and I don't care that much.
  764. 7:15:02 PM Arelex Well, I found Arelex's evil Chaos twin, lol. http://rickyryan.deviantart.com/art/Of-Flesh-and-Blood-and-Steel-376603718
  765. 7:15:13 PM Arelex But that's not what I need right now. :P
  766. 7:16:22 PM Brennus Haha, oh shit. That is hardcore
  767. 7:16:24 PM Froggy So how much longer are we staying on this quick side note?
  768. 7:16:42 PM Arelex whenever you wanna talk about something else, go for it. I'm just rambling in the dead air.
  769. 7:17:07 PM Arelex I'm probably gonna go wander off and trawl Deviant Art for a while anyway.
  770. 7:17:13 PM Brennus I kind of tend to run with whatever new material is stuck in front of me
  771. 7:17:16 PM Froggy We were talking about Legio Canem until you asked for a quick change of subject.
  772. 7:18:07 PM Arelex Aaight, well consider that back on the subject then.
  773. 7:18:29 PM Brennus Would something like a Dreadnought built for a normal human/tech priest be a thing?
  774. 7:18:48 PM Froggy Well, I guess we're at a point where we need to check if Brennus needs more material to write them up.
  775. 7:18:48 PM Arelex Penitent Engines are kinda similar for the Sisters, at least.
  776. 7:19:08 PM Froggy Or if it's even reasonable to expect a draft to be written up.
  777. 7:19:47 PM Brennus I probably need to actually put some stuff down, yeah. I could probably do some kind of draft; I have to work a buttload of overtime next week, but strife at work often spurs my creativity
  778. 7:20:21 PM Brennus And, well, the stuff I'm going to be responsible for this week is very stressful
  779. 7:20:32 PM Froggy As we're looking to discuss the not-Black Legion again next week, you could probably just sketch it out in bullet points.
  780. 7:20:52 PM Brennus Sure, I can definitely do that
  781. 7:21:33 PM Froggy I think the Forge World itself is still the least-discussed party. Do you think it's a place discovered by Brennus?
  782. 7:21:51 PM Brennus That is what I was thinking, yes.
  783. 7:22:39 PM Brennus They surrender relatively peacefully, when they find out Brennus isn't terribly interested in changing their form of self government, and are interested to get out into the wider galaxy
  784. 7:22:54 PM Froggy You could play them way back into his background and use it to explain some things about the Alessians. Maybe the Forge World is very close to Alessia and had a relationship with the world prior to the Great Crusade?
  785. 7:23:37 PM Brennus That's a good idea, I like that. That would explain why the Alessians have such a strong forging and crafting tradition
  786. 7:24:17 PM Froggy But things collapse (warp storms? when the insurrection happens on the Forge World?) for a while, allowing Alessia to revert to savagery.
  787. 7:24:43 PM Froggy Or actually, you could even have a more civilised part of Alessia and Brennus' achievement is more Conan-esque.
  788. 7:25:28 PM Brennus Hmm...sort of like that Iron Island on Fenris? I don't know if you've read the Ragnar Blackmane novels or not
  789. 7:25:58 PM Froggy Haven't read it. I was actually thinking more like Corax's background, where the Forge World uses his home as a source of cheap labour.
  790. 7:27:00 PM Alexandri Back.
  791. 7:27:09 PM Alexandri What we talkin' on?
  792. 7:27:11 PM Alexandri Alessia?
  793. 7:27:23 PM Froggy Alessia and Canem's homeworld.
  794. 7:27:32 PM Brennus Yep, Alessia. The possible pre-crusade relationship with Alessia
  795. 7:28:28 PM Brennus Perhaps the First tribe of Alessia (Brennus' tribe) is technologically superior. It's part of why he's able to unite the planet
  796. 7:29:26 PM Brennus The First tribe is not necessarily militarily stronger, they just hold a dominant position on the planet at the time
  797. 7:29:39 PM Froggy You don't need to justify him unifying the planet. He's a Primarch.
  798. 7:29:48 PM Brennus That's true
  799. 7:30:48 PM Brennus Perhaps the advanced tech people are separate from the tribal system entirely
  800. 7:31:39 PM Froggy Might help to have them interact with the tribes, either as conquerors, slavers, or just exploitative traders.
  801. 7:33:02 PM Brennus Hmm, slavers seems best. That gives all the Tribes incentive to fight against them, and Brennus can promise them all fantastic plunder from the time of the ancestors
  802. 7:35:09 PM Froggy Alex? Arelex? Any thoughts on this?
  803. 7:36:15 PM Arelex hmm
  804. 7:36:53 PM Alexandri http://i.imgur.com/A71XJb6.jpg
  805. 7:36:56 PM Arelex Fighting off slavers has kind of an Angron vibe, so that's not too bad.
  806. 7:37:01 PM Alexandri I have one thing to say
  807. 7:37:06 PM Alexandri Rename Tribes to Clans.
  808. 7:37:18 PM Alexandri Because I realized there is a lot of tribal themes with the IR
  809. 7:37:20 PM Arelex Maybe that leads to the liberation of this forge world, and that's part of why they have a tight relationship?
  810. 7:37:20 PM Brennus Clans are the smaller unit that make up the tribes
  811. 7:37:34 PM Alexandri Because IR doesn't use the name clan but the use tribe.
  812. 7:37:41 PM Alexandri It's just a differencing thing for me, sorry.
  813. 7:37:56 PM Froggy IR are pretty fucking dull, Merrill could do with a cue to add depth.
  814. 7:39:12 PM Brennus Well, this is after the relationship between the two has been lost Arelex. These slavers are guys on Alessia who have more remnants of old tech. I understand Alex, I can see the similarity
  815. 7:41:25 PM Arelex So, was Alessia being held up mostly by this Forge World, since you say that its loss allowed it to "revert to savagery"?
  816. 7:41:55 PM Arelex Feels like there'd be a strong oral history/legend of the place, then. Maybe Brenus siezes on that for propaganda or something.
  817. 7:42:44 PM Brennus Basically. Lumey's suggestion was that Alessia was a source of cheap labor. That's a pretty good idea, especially since Brennus arrives in a pod. Maybe the people of Alessia strongly associate technology with the "Otherworld", essentially their afterlife?
  818. 7:43:11 PM Arelex Pod is tech. Superman comes out of tech. Superman gonna lead us back to the promised land, yo.
  819. 7:43:23 PM Arelex Tech ain't as mythical as we thought, yo.
  820. 7:44:37 PM Brennus I'm still kinda torn on how much I want Alessia to be uplifted
  821. 7:44:56 PM Brennus They need a certain amount of savage bravado to fit Brennus' design.
  822. 7:45:06 PM Arelex People fight harder to earn heaven when they know it's real. They don't fight so hard when heaven comes to them.
  823. 7:45:29 PM Brennus Very true
  824. 7:45:44 PM Brennus There's precedent for leaving a world in a less developed state
  825. 7:46:46 PM Froggy As a suggestion: the Forge World used to maintain a little Empire of subjugated worlds, based on the strength of its Titan Legion. This gave the Legion special privileges and basically resulted in them running the show. The rebellion against the Legion & associated Hawks made for a serious civil war that really banged the place up.
  826. 7:47:08 PM Froggy On Alessia, memories of the presence of Titans walking the earth persist in the myth of "Thunder Kings".
  827. 7:47:32 PM Brennus That's really good, I like it!
  828. 7:47:32 PM Arelex reference game on point
  829. 7:48:33 PM Brennus That's a great myth for the Astartes to take as their own, given their enhanced size and strength.
  830. 7:49:02 PM Froggy The Tech Canton on Alessia is isolated from the civil war but tries to keep up the "enslave and exploit" programme until Brennus headbutts them to death.
  831. 7:49:55 PM Arelex Have Brennus's Legion sculpt their power armor boots to look like Emperor or Warlord Titan feet, so that their footprints look like miniature Titan steps.
  832. 7:50:17 PM Froggy I don't think it needs to go that far. The "Thunder Kings" are a vague memory.
  833. 7:50:39 PM Froggy But it gives us an alternate origin for the name, rather than the slightly sketchy Thunder Warriors tie-in.
  834. 7:50:46 PM Arelex fair enough.
  835. 7:51:25 PM Froggy Anyway, have the plebian victors of the civil war set about trying to make amends to their former colonies, perhaps beating the Emperor to Alessia?
  836. 7:51:39 PM Arelex The Legion should also use Earthshaker rounds a lot. It just seems correct. (Don't Vindicators fire something like a short ranged Earthshaker round?)
  837. 7:52:04 PM Alexandri I think so.
  838. 7:52:06 PM Froggy You could actually do a longer backstory for Brennus, giving him some technical credentials that way (don't go too far, because otherwise he'll blur into Arelex).
  839. 7:52:14 PM Alexandri Also I've been reading but have no idea how to add to this.
  840. 7:52:40 PM Froggy Alex, point out anything that's too crazy.
  841. 7:52:48 PM Brennus I'm sure they could come up with something that fired an earthshaker from a more mobile platform. Hmm, I hadn't thought to have anyone approach Alessia before the Emperor
  842. 7:53:15 PM Brennus Brennus might be less willing to swear fealty to the Emperor right away, which could be interesting
  843. 7:54:11 PM Arelex And I suppose that since Brennus is mastering his world, and at least exerting influence over the Forge World, that makes him one of the few Primarchs to have gone beyond his own world before the Emperor arrives.
  844. 7:54:26 PM Arelex IDK if that's important or not, but I just noticed that's a thing.
  845. 7:54:44 PM Brennus Is it too cliche for him to challenge his father to tests of some kind? You're right Arelex. That would be an interesting angle
  846. 7:54:59 PM Alexandri All looks kosher to me.
  847. 7:56:06 PM Arelex Vulkan did it, at least. I figure it's ok if you do too.
  848. 7:56:59 PM Froggy Having him be a bit of a world-traveller pre-Emprah is interesting and helps to set him apart from the other guys.
  849. 7:57:48 PM Arelex IIRC, Alpharius/Omegon are the only OU Primarchs to have done such a thing. Do any of ours other than I guess Brennus now do that?
  850. 7:57:48 PM Brennus Cool. I think I can put something interesting together from this
  851. 7:57:56 PM Brennus Not that I know of
  852. 7:58:13 PM Froggy Bob Girlyman and Rogal Dorn also do some interplanetary travel.
  853. 7:58:34 PM Froggy Possibly Horus, but his background is all "we ain't telling!"
  854. 7:58:55 PM Arelex mmk
  855. 7:59:06 PM Brennus Really? I thought the Rowboat only had one planet. I'm sore Black Library will use it for some book, so they can wring the most blood out of that stone
  856. 7:59:28 PM Brennus *sure
  857. 7:59:39 PM Froggy In Tempest, FW explains that the Realm of Ultramar is a going concern pre-Pacification.
  858. 8:00:00 PM Brennus Ahh, so I see. I haven't read that.
  859. 8:00:01 PM Froggy I think Corax had also travelled to another world but one of them is a moon so it's not such a big deal.
  860. 8:00:49 PM Brennus Yeah, humans were travelling to moons 28,000 years before that.
  861. 8:01:09 PM Arelex lol
  862. 8:01:16 PM Froggy For ours, I think the only candidates are Onyx and Aubrey, and that's unconfirmed. Plus Hektor, but, y'know.
  863. 8:01:34 PM Brennus Hektor had an advantage
  864. 8:01:43 PM Arelex Spawning in on Terra does kinda change the calculus, yeah. :P
  865. 8:01:53 PM Brennus Haha
  866. 8:02:57 PM Froggy Which does make me wonder if maybe Alexandri should have conquered some other punk sub-slav worlds before meeting up with the Emprah.
  867. 8:03:36 PM Brennus Hmm, is Rosskar capable of that kind of tech?
  868. 8:03:44 PM Froggy It could be.
  869. 8:04:46 PM Brennus Alexandri, what do you think? Are the Cats still naval-oriented?
  870. 8:05:25 PM Alexandri Nope. Deep Army Doctrine now.
  871. 8:05:30 PM Alexandri Why focus on Navy when you have Tonks?
  872. 8:05:44 PM Froggy Tonks cannot into space.
  873. 8:06:02 PM Alexandri Though they're more 'infantry and artillery support armored push' than the Lions 'WE ARE THE GODS OF TANKFIRE, AND WE BRING YOU' etc.
  874. 8:06:18 PM Brennus Rear line tanks as opposed to tank rush
  875. 8:06:25 PM JaegerWolf joined the channel.
  876. 8:06:38 PM JaegerWolf Alright, what'd I miss?
  877. 8:06:40 PM Alexandri Jaeger.
  878. 8:06:43 PM Alexandri I want to talk about the IR
  879. 8:06:54 PM JaegerWolf No.
  880. 8:06:56 PM JaegerWolf What's up?
  881. 8:07:01 PM Froggy Deep Battle is about penetrating the operational depth of the enemy and destroying them, rather than the blitzkrieg encircle stuff.
  882. 8:07:03 PM Brennus We talked a bunch about the Legio Canem, Alessia, and the tech relationship between the two
  883. 8:07:23 PM JaegerWolf Alright, coo.
  884. 8:07:35 PM JaegerWolf So what's up about the IR?
  885. 8:07:42 PM JaegerWolf What'd I do now?
  886. 8:07:56 PM Alexandri I think they need some editting work put in. Especially their quote.
  887. 8:08:00 PM Alexandri It's way too long.
  888. 8:08:04 PM Alexandri Less with more.
  889. 8:08:09 PM JaegerWolf Yeah, prolly.
  890. 8:08:19 PM Alexandri Alright that's it.
  891. 8:08:35 PM JaegerWolf Alright, so, now that I'm thinking.
  892. 8:08:49 PM JaegerWolf Do you mean the one on 1d4chan or the one on the forum?
  893. 8:09:18 PM Alexandri 4chan
  894. 8:09:24 PM JaegerWolf ah.
  895. 8:09:26 PM Alexandri 1d4chan that is
  896. 8:09:29 PM JaegerWolf hold on.
  897. 8:09:38 PM JaegerWolf has to load up the page.
  898. 8:09:52 PM Alexandri So how does Unburdened Horde sound for the new Unstained Host?
  899. 8:10:26 PM Brennus Hmm, not bad
  900. 8:11:32 PM Alexandri Might work in some Mongol influences in there. The first three generations after Temujin are very intriguing to pull inspiration from.
  901. 8:11:34 PM Brennus I did like the 'Unburdened' suggestion. It works pretty well
  902. 8:11:43 PM Brennus Ooo, hey. That would be cool.
  903. 8:12:09 PM Alexandri Might make Zhardan's name change more like the adoption of Ghengis.
  904. 8:12:11 PM Alexandri How does that sound?
  905. 8:12:44 PM JaegerWolf I like it.
  906. 8:13:09 PM Brennus Sounds fitting, and the parallel explains the degredation of the Horde after his death
  907. 8:13:52 PM Alexandri Might have him be more Warlordy than his diplomatic approach, but definitely a fair ruler all in all.
  908. 8:13:55 PM JaegerWolf Alright, so aside from needing Warbands and breaking up the wall of text, any ideas on editing that page?
  909. 8:14:09 PM Alexandri It really just needs editting.
  910. 8:14:21 PM Alexandri I don't know, what do you think. Arelex? Brennus? Froggy?
  911. 8:14:41 PM Froggy IR page?
  912. 8:14:57 PM Brennus I need to look at it, let me give a quick skim
  913. 8:15:31 PM JaegerWolf I'm going to disagree with you on the degradation. That had more to do with Genghis being a shitty dad. If his sons would have actually worked together like he wanted, everything to keep the empire running for centuries was there.
  914. 8:15:57 PM JaegerWolf And to a certain extent it did. The last Khan died in the 1940's Afghanistan.
  915. 8:16:40 PM Brennus Is that so? I had no idea, interesting. I wonder how legit his claim was
  916. 8:18:00 PM JaegerWolf Traced all the way back.
  917. 8:19:18 PM Alexandri Yeah.
  918. 8:19:20 PM JaegerWolf His territory was split into 5 parts, each of his "trueborn" children got one. For the most part, they ruled for at least one or two centuries each. IIRC, the Russians were the first to truly push the Mongols out of their territory.
  919. 8:19:21 PM Alexandri Direct unbroken line.
  920. 8:19:44 PM Alexandri The Mongols had become so Chinese you could hardly tell them apart from the Chinese in China.
  921. 8:19:55 PM Alexandri So that was a victory for the Chinese.
  922. 8:20:05 PM JaegerWolf I forget which Dynasty, but they built the Hidden Fortress.
  923. 8:20:15 PM Alexandri And the Forbidden Palace.
  924. 8:20:19 PM Froggy For the IR page, the first issue is the index. You simply have too many headings for the amount of content. All of the third-level headings could go, to be honest.
  925. 8:20:29 PM JaegerWolf That was what I meant.
  926. 8:21:13 PM Brennus Hmm...that would compress the contents box, which I think would look better
  927. 8:21:23 PM Brennus There are a few sentences and phrases that read oddly
  928. 8:21:40 PM Froggy There doesn't seem to be a story behind their name.
  929. 8:21:42 PM JaegerWolf As in deleted or just edited in out of the contents?
  930. 8:21:52 PM Alexandri [22:21] <Froggy> There doesn't seem to be a story behind their name.
  931. 8:21:53 PM Alexandri HOLY FUCK
  932. 8:21:55 PM Alexandri THAT'S IT
  933. 8:22:07 PM Alexandri I wanted to grab onto something that had been bugging me in the back of my mind with them
  934. 8:22:09 PM Brennus Edited out of the contents box. But left on the page in general
  935. 8:22:11 PM Alexandri But I couldn't focus on it.
  936. 8:22:31 PM Brennus I'ma make a sandwich guys, be back in a few
  937. 8:22:53 PM JaegerWolf Iron for the hardness of their spirits, Rangers after the masters of the wilderness of old Terra?
  938. 8:22:58 PM Froggy In order to pull the headings from the contents box, you need to make them just bold emphasis lines.
  939. 8:23:13 PM JaegerWolf h/o.
  940. 8:23:17 PM Froggy Who names them that? When?
  941. 8:23:24 PM JaegerWolf Hektor.
  942. 8:23:30 PM JaegerWolf Yes.
  943. 8:23:55 PM Alexandri I think
  944. 8:24:01 PM Alexandri You could have it be they wanted to be named The Iron
  945. 8:24:06 PM Alexandri Or Merrill wanted to name them that
  946. 8:24:10 PM Alexandri And Hektor is like 'no bro come on that's a bad idea'
  947. 8:24:18 PM Alexandri 'call 'em Iron Rangers'
  948. 8:24:37 PM JaegerWolf Then what were they before?
  949. 8:24:49 PM Alexandri The something something
  950. 8:25:18 PM Froggy What else is an issue... the Warrior's Path needs more detail. You kinda imply that they have grueling training, but then we don't get any detail.
  951. 8:25:44 PM JaegerWolf I like having the name be set forward and be unchanged.
  952. 8:25:57 PM JaegerWolf It gives a slightly unique feel while still being lazy.
  953. 8:26:50 PM JaegerWolf Well, they're astartes. That implies the grueling training, I was focusing more on showing how it was DIFFERENT from other Legions.
  954. 8:27:55 PM JaegerWolf and I really don't want to get into how it's grueling, because honestly anything I put down will seem like it's one-upping things anywhere, and if anything that's a bad trend to start setting.
  955. 8:28:54 PM Froggy OK. Well, the other side of it is that the current wording implies that they get trialed for a few weeks, then they're neophytes and wear power armour. That's not how Space Marines work.
  956. 8:29:29 PM JaegerWolf Not in 40k. Except for Space Puppies (Blood Claws).
  957. 8:29:30 PM Froggy The Black Carapace is only implanted after years of surgical procedures and brainwashing.
  958. 8:29:32 PM Brennus I think that we could all be permitted some leeway in exacerbating the grueling nature of our training programs
  959. 8:30:16 PM JaegerWolf I know 30k ran things a bit differently, and hardly mentioned scouts or anything of that nature.
  960. 8:30:27 PM JaegerWolf They even just had Recon Marines in Power Armor.
  961. 8:31:20 PM Froggy Merrill.
  962. 8:31:24 PM Froggy You are missing the point.
  963. 8:31:37 PM Froggy It takes years of surgery to go from Aspirant to Neophyte.
  964. 8:31:42 PM Froggy YEARS
  965. 8:32:02 PM Froggy Even with Great Crusade super-science, it's still a lengthy procedure.
  966. 8:32:07 PM Froggy (Set of procedures.)
  967. 8:32:30 PM JaegerWolf Yeah.
  968. 8:32:39 PM Froggy Currently you gloss over that.
  969. 8:32:56 PM Froggy It really looks like they have a few months of trials and then they're Space Marines.
  970. 8:32:57 PM JaegerWolf I will back that it rarely goes into anything in the OU except for one or two little releases from BL.
  971. 8:32:57 PM Alexandri The Dark Angels were mass producing recruits.
  972. 8:32:59 PM Alexandri In a text about that
  973. 8:33:08 PM Alexandri They detail how quickly they can produce a Marine without fucking them up
  974. 8:33:13 PM Alexandri It's 1 year 3 months.
  975. 8:33:21 PM Alexandri But that's making really low quality Marines.
  976. 8:33:27 PM JaegerWolf Yeah.
  977. 8:34:10 PM Froggy Often the process isn't detailed, but if you're going to talk about recruitment you need to address the surgeries.
  978. 8:34:12 PM JaegerWolf I'm just trying to figure out how I can rectify this without completely rewriting everything I've got or adding another several pages of block.
  979. 8:34:54 PM Froggy I mean - with the EYes of the Emperor, I want to make a point about their culture in the training, so there are vows associated with the surgeries: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Eyes_of_the_Emperor#Recruitment_and_training
  980. 8:35:38 PM JaegerWolf Or just highlight everything as important points of recruitment, implying there's other sections involved that go below notice or were suppressed.
  981. 8:36:02 PM Alexandri Maybe I should work on Cataphract training more.
  982. 8:36:21 PM Froggy Whereas the Void Angels don't get a specific training section, there are just references to the quality of their recruits.
  983. 8:36:28 PM Alexandri It's really dehumanizing but doesn't use Pscyho-Indoctrination which makes the process of indoctrination and brainwashing take 3 times as long.
  984. 8:37:15 PM JaegerWolf I think this is also missing that I'm not trying to rewrite how Astartes are trained, just showing how the Legion does things a little differently.
  985. 8:37:40 PM Froggy So basically, you need to work out what is essential and what you're trying to show, without implying that they don't go through the Space Marine surgeries.
  986. 8:38:04 PM Brennus Well, all astartes have different training methods. They get the basic set of skills and enhancement, but there is always something unique
  987. 8:38:37 PM JaegerWolf trying to show the basic process and how it's different from other legions. No more and no less.
  988. 8:39:37 PM Froggy OK. But you need to get your timeframes right. At the moment, it looks like you copy-pasted US Army training methods and added some Welsh.
  989. 8:39:45 PM Froggy Space Marines are not the fucking army.
  990. 8:40:21 PM Froggy They're in their physical prime for decades, so spending a couple of years training them is no big deal.
  991. 8:44:44 PM Alexandri Is everyone dead?
  992. 8:44:48 PM Alexandri Did they get you all?
  993. 8:44:51 PM Alexandri Am I the last one!?
  994. 8:45:25 PM Froggy I'm fighting a sandwich. Brennus is doing the same, I think.
  995. 8:45:39 PM Brennus Also had to clean up broken glass
  996. 8:46:14 PM Froggy Those glass sandwiches always make a mess.
  997. 8:46:50 PM Brennus And they don't do my gums any favors either
  998. 8:47:02 PM JaegerWolf beer, pipe, and leveling my Paladin.
  999. 8:47:48 PM JaegerWolf That being said, trust me, I used that shit as a basis, but didn't go into the same level of detail as most of that shit.
  1000. 8:48:06 PM Froggy But it doesn't work as a basis.
  1001. 8:48:07 PM JaegerWolf because people don't give a shit about any of that.
  1002. 8:48:31 PM JaegerWolf in all honesty, I could have left everything out of it, and no one would fucking care.
  1003. 8:48:36 PM Froggy I mean, if you're telling us now that you really want the Iron Rangers to be auxilia - OK, that can be accomodated.
  1004. 8:48:55 PM Froggy But I was under the impression that you didn't want that?
  1005. 8:49:04 PM JaegerWolf I added it because it was important to me to have SOME kind of thing going on.
  1006. 8:49:43 PM JaegerWolf The fuck's it matter? I've been running on an occasional creative spurt for like 8 months as is.
  1007. 8:50:10 PM JaegerWolf Have an idea, jot it down, discuss, maybe add something. Done for another month or so.
  1008. 8:51:12 PM JaegerWolf Hell, I posted a long ass time ago that I was drained and had either nothing but bad ideas or complete inability to put anything down halfway decently and gave permission for the group to work on them as need be, and they haven't been edited since forever.
  1009. 8:51:44 PM Froggy Was this before the last round of cuts? :-/
  1010. 8:51:46 PM Alexandri He wasn't here for that.
  1011. 8:51:49 PM JaegerWolf Uriel added 2 characters in May.
  1012. 8:52:09 PM Alexandri Wait you gave the okay for the group to edit them?
  1013. 8:52:16 PM JaegerWolf Yeah.
  1014. 8:52:26 PM Alexandri I might oblige, I must have not read that part.
  1015. 8:52:32 PM Alexandri Also Lumey this was a few months ago.
  1016. 8:52:41 PM JaegerWolf It was when we were still on 4chan.
  1017. 8:52:44 PM Alexandri Around the time you had IRL things to attend to.
  1018. 8:52:58 PM Froggy Because... like there's a long-standing issue that the Iron Rangers and Uriel's mob are mining the same soil for ideas.
  1019. 8:53:31 PM JaegerWolf And nothing about how the CT started digging there as well?
  1020. 8:53:34 PM Froggy And pushing the Kids into Spygames was never a good idea.
  1021. 8:53:57 PM Froggy LCK has been a net loss so far.
  1022. 8:55:04 PM Alexandri I don't want to agree with you
  1023. 8:55:07 PM Alexandri But I do at the same time.
  1024. 8:55:45 PM Brennus I do see some overlap there in their tactics.
  1025. 8:56:20 PM Froggy I mean, basically, the Iron Rangers and Children are both trying to be Alpha Legion. Let's just acknowledge that.
  1026. 8:57:35 PM Froggy If Merrill is saying he's out of ideas and someone else can change the Iron Rangers, then.... my inclination is to write them out of that area so that the Children can just be Alpha Legion 2: The Alpha Legioning.
  1027. 8:58:03 PM Alexandri Then what would the Iron Rangers DO instead?
  1028. 8:58:41 PM Froggy Without getting too fancy? I'd make them Raven Guard knock-offs.
  1029. 8:59:03 PM Alexandri I think the Children work better as Dark Angel+Raven Guard.
  1030. 8:59:13 PM Alexandri Rangers are mad enough to be true Alpha Legion.
  1031. 8:59:17 PM JaegerWolf Raven guard in dresses?
  1032. 8:59:55 PM Froggy Right, but trying to lead Uriel up that path is going to be like eating a glass sandwich.
  1033. 9:00:17 PM Alexandri Brennus!
  1034. 9:00:23 PM Brennus Yes
  1035. 9:00:25 PM Alexandri You know what to do!
  1036. 9:00:48 PM Brennus ...sell all my materiel goods and join the priesthood?
  1037. 9:01:08 PM JaegerWolf Blow up a bus full of nuns was my guess.
  1038. 9:01:28 PM Froggy Try to take over the world?
  1039. 9:01:51 PM Froggy ("They're Froggy and the Bren, they're Froggy and the Bren...")
  1040. 9:02:35 PM Brennus Hahaha
  1041. 9:05:36 PM JaegerWolf That being said, Raven Guard with greater emphasis on scouting and stealth (okay, same emphasis on stealth) would work.
  1042. 9:05:56 PM Brennus I sort of thought of them as traitor Raven Guard anyway.
  1043. 9:07:12 PM Brennus I kind of associate all our legions with one or more OU legions
  1044. 9:07:35 PM Froggy Jump packs, rapid insertion, spears, some kind of thing about hunting... it doesn't require a huge change.
  1045. 9:07:49 PM Froggy And then Uriel can have free reign on dick moves.
  1046. 9:08:07 PM Alexandri YES
  1047. 9:08:10 PM Alexandri EXPLOSIVE TIPPED SPEARS
  1048. 9:08:11 PM Alexandri I LIVE
  1049. 9:08:12 PM Alexandri I DE
  1050. 9:08:14 PM Alexandri I LIVE AGAIN
  1051. 9:08:37 PM Alexandri http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5568cc54eab8eac07aa0e1b7-1200-600/mad-max-fury-road-war-boys.png
  1052. 9:09:06 PM Brennus Yeeeesssss
  1053. 9:12:01 PM JaegerWolf But... I already had power spears...
  1054. 9:12:27 PM Froggy Yeah, it was a thing I wanted to keep so they weren't totally re-written.
  1055. 9:12:29 PM JaegerWolf I think I was sorely mistaken on writing these guys.
  1056. 9:13:02 PM Froggy No, we had the same kind of issue in other places.
  1057. 9:13:06 PM Froggy All those knights.
  1058. 9:13:12 PM JaegerWolf Basically, what you guys were saying was more or less where I was trying to take them. They weren't the dick move Legion.
  1059. 9:13:13 PM Froggy Too many Greeks.
  1060. 9:13:27 PM JaegerWolf I mean, they were, but not the same kind of dick move.
  1061. 9:14:00 PM Froggy TANKSTANKSTANKSTANKSTANKSTANKS
  1062. 9:14:16 PM JaegerWolf Just sneaky fuckers who always thought stabbings in the back was better/safer/smarter than going straight at somebody.
  1063. 9:14:18 PM Alexandri I had no idea why Lions switched from Fast ATtack to tanks
  1064. 9:14:34 PM Froggy Y'know, Legion overlap was just a thing because nobody really worried about division of spoils.
  1065. 9:14:36 PM Froggy Alex.
  1066. 9:14:36 PM Brennus Nor do I alex
  1067. 9:14:40 PM Brennus I liked that
  1068. 9:14:41 PM Froggy The Lions were always tankers.
  1069. 9:14:44 PM Alexandri But
  1070. 9:14:45 PM Alexandri We talked to him
  1071. 9:14:47 PM Froggy Always.
  1072. 9:14:50 PM Froggy Always always.
  1073. 9:14:50 PM Alexandri About him being fast attack
  1074. 9:14:53 PM Alexandri and he didn't say anything!
  1075. 9:15:39 PM Froggy Bad discussion?
  1076. 9:15:42 PM Froggy I don't know.
  1077. 9:15:49 PM Froggy But I do know that they were always tankers.
  1078. 9:16:29 PM Alexandri Alright.
  1079. 9:16:59 PM JaegerWolf But it was always a blitzkrieg tanker army.
  1080. 9:17:20 PM Froggy http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/34899800/#34916329
  1081. 9:19:05 PM Alexandri I said
  1082. 9:19:06 PM Alexandri Alright
  1083. 9:19:13 PM Alexandri I understood that last time we talked about this too
  1084. 9:19:31 PM Alexandri It just took me aback each time I remember all the times we talked about the LR and talked to Wayward about the LR
  1085. 9:19:32 PM Froggy I just have nostalgia for that thread because the Aurries turned up then.
  1086. 9:19:38 PM Alexandri Same.
  1087. 9:19:48 PM Alexandri also for the love of god
  1088. 9:20:20 PM Alexandri could someone give me any feedback specific to the member warbands of the horde/host in thread?
  1089. 9:21:28 PM JaegerWolf Alright, well on that note, I'm starting to nod off.
  1090. 9:21:36 PM JaegerWolf I'll finish my beer, and head to bed.\
  1091. 9:21:36 PM Froggy OK. Later, then.
  1092. 9:21:55 PM JaegerWolf give me a minute, I'm not a complete alcoholic.
  1093. 9:21:56 PM JaegerWolf Just mostly.
  1094. 9:21:58 PM Brennus Hahaha
  1095. 9:22:36 PM Froggy So... does anyone want the job of re-working the IR into pseudo-Bird Boys?
  1096. 9:22:40 PM JaegerWolf Alex, I'll leave it up and get back to you tomorrow at some time.
  1097. 9:22:45 PM Alexandri raises hand.
  1098. 9:23:02 PM JaegerWolf I just request that I stay in the loop about that is all.
  1099. 9:23:18 PM Froggy Sure, it's not like we're telling you to GTFO or anything.
  1100. 9:23:30 PM JaegerWolf -_-
  1101. 9:23:51 PM JaegerWolf IRC tomorrow as well?
  1102. 9:25:07 PM Voidwatcher joined the channel.
  1103. 9:25:07 PM Froggy IRC next week.
  1104. 9:25:15 PM Froggy WELCOME DARK BROTHER
  1105. 9:25:20 PM JaegerWolf k.
  1106. 9:25:22 PM JaegerWolf yo.
  1107. 9:25:27 PM Voidwatcher Ay
  1108. 9:26:10 PM Froggy I just added the Black Augurs summary to the thread. Also, Wayward and Roman wrote pretty good ones for their mans.
  1109. 9:26:18 PM Brennus Heyo Voidy
  1110. 9:26:35 PM Voidwatcher Thanks
  1111. 9:26:55 PM Voidwatcher I posted it in the 4chan thread because I didn't know how to do it on the forum
  1112. 9:27:07 PM Froggy All good.
  1113. 9:27:43 PM Froggy So, we've been talking about the Unstained Host, Legio Canem, the Iron Rangers, and some other bits and pieces.
  1114. 9:27:47 PM Froggy Also cats, but not snakes.
  1115. 9:27:49 PM Froggy Fuck.
  1116. 9:27:55 PM Froggy Where's Aubrey when you need him?
  1117. 9:28:10 PM Brennus Probably in the Eldar pits again
  1118. 9:28:10 PM Alexandri Asleep I assume.
  1119. 9:28:27 PM Froggy These answers are not exclusive.
  1120. 9:29:10 PM Alexandri Heh
  1121. 9:29:16 PM Brennus True dat
  1122. 9:30:19 PM Froggy Anyway. Unstained Host moved to redraft, Alex will present again in a week. Legio Canem are going to "pre-draft", Brennus will present a summary of where he's going next week.
  1123. 9:30:43 PM Alexandri Voidy, you want to get in on the drafting?
  1124. 9:30:53 PM JaegerWolf Alright, now I'm out bitches.
  1125. 9:30:55 PM JaegerWolf Later.
  1126. 9:31:01 PM Alexandri It's basically just pitching people to get stuff done and presented for feedback on the next Saturday.
  1127. 9:31:02 PM Froggy It's been strongly suggested that the Iron Rangers get swerved over to be more like Traitor Raven Guard, letting the Children go full Alpha Legion. Alex is saying that he can do that too but that might be a bit time-consuming.
  1128. 9:31:07 PM Brennus Later man, take care
  1129. 9:31:14 PM Froggy Later Merrill.
  1130. 9:31:28 PM Froggy I understand there's some Black Augur stuff to look at?
  1131. 9:33:55 PM JaegerWolf has quit: Ping timeout.
  1132. 9:37:01 PM Alexandri Void?
  1133. 9:39:34 PM Brennus Hmm
  1134. 9:44:31 PM Froggy Err... OK. If Voidwatcher resurfaces, it would actually be pretty handy to talk Nikaea.
  1135. 9:45:16 PM Brennus That would probably be good. Hopefully he will be back soon
  1136. 9:48:10 PM Voidwatcher Sorry
  1137. 9:48:21 PM Froggy All good, things happen.
  1138. 9:49:02 PM Voidwatcher The main changes/revisions to the Black Augurs would be about their development
  1139. 9:49:34 PM Voidwatcher They start out as a legion willing to do anything to get the job done
  1140. 9:49:53 PM Voidwatcher They're proud of their work, they think they do the hard stuff that other legions aren't willing to do
  1141. 9:50:13 PM Voidwatcher But slowly, as the Crusade goes on, they are progressively alienated by the other legions for their practices
  1142. 9:50:23 PM Voidwatcher This pushes them further away, makes them resentful
  1143. 9:50:58 PM Voidwatcher And alongside this, partly as a copying mechanism and partly just as a side affect of what they do, they start to enjoy it
  1144. 9:51:25 PM Voidwatcher They get progressively more brutal and cruel, therefore pushing themselves even farther from the other legions
  1145. 9:52:14 PM Voidwatcher They still believe they're fighting for the Emperor and Humanity, they still have the idea of just being the only ones willing to get the job done
  1146. 9:52:36 PM Voidwatcher But really, any moral fibre they has been worn away
  1147. 9:52:43 PM Voidwatcher And The Voidwatcher knows this
  1148. 9:52:59 PM Voidwatcher He only needs one little push to get them to abandon the Imperium
  1149. 9:53:01 PM Alexandri I thought they got turned into evil cunts with the Decimation.
  1150. 9:53:05 PM Froggy That could work. It is close to the Crimson Teeth story, but then *mumblemuttermumble*
  1151. 9:53:12 PM Voidwatcher Fuck you're right
  1152. 9:53:31 PM Alexandri Honestly that could change.
  1153. 9:53:33 PM Voidwatcher I'm just changing it from it being entirely the decimation
  1154. 9:53:34 PM Voidwatcher Sure it helped
  1155. 9:53:37 PM Alexandri LCK pitches ideas, changes his mind, doesn't write.
  1156. 9:53:46 PM Voidwatcher But it seems kinda hamfisted
  1157. 9:53:51 PM Voidwatcher Also
  1158. 9:54:09 PM Froggy Voidy, you missed the point where I wrote that LCK has been a net loss so far and nobody disagreed. But that did happen.
  1159. 9:54:13 PM Alexandri His current writeup has the War Council very, oddly focus in on discriminating against them.
  1160. 9:54:31 PM Voidwatcher I think this way the Voidwatcher "throwing" Nikaea by provoking Lumey makes more sense
  1161. 9:54:32 PM Alexandri And doesn't detail out why.
  1162. 9:54:45 PM Alexandri Oh, that actually does help I think Void.
  1163. 9:54:53 PM Brennus Yeah, I like that also
  1164. 9:54:56 PM Alexandri Gives a definite reason why Voidy doesn't try to defend himself
  1165. 9:54:58 PM Alexandri He doesn't care.
  1166. 9:55:00 PM Alexandri He wants to lose.
  1167. 9:55:15 PM Alexandri Not look like he does but yeah
  1168. 9:55:17 PM Alexandri He knows going in
  1169. 9:55:19 PM Alexandri He ain't gonna win
  1170. 9:55:26 PM Alexandri But he can atleast turn it to his advantage.
  1171. 9:55:31 PM Alexandri How does that sound Lumey?
  1172. 9:55:44 PM Brennus Is he trying to make the people who oppose him look bad?
  1173. 9:55:51 PM Froggy I had the Council picked as a matter of pure loathing. Voidwatcher hates Lumey so much he can't resist provoking the guy, Lumey hates Voidwatcher so much he can't restrain his counter-attack.
  1174. 9:56:52 PM Froggy I've also implied that Uriel was involved in giving Lumey records of the Black Augurs misdeeds.
  1175. 9:57:18 PM Froggy Although that could easily be the Vardhana's information.
  1176. 9:58:29 PM Froggy That said, the new Augur backstory would make their enmity with Winged Victory even stronger. The Augurs suffer and toil for ages so that #5 can pop up and grab all the glory? RAGE.
  1177. 10:00:13 PM Brennus If Uriel did it that would be at least two Primarchs he screws over to convert. We might be establishing a theme'
  1178. 10:01:43 PM Voidwatcher He Uriel did what?
  1179. 10:02:07 PM Brennus Gave records to Lumey illustrating the creepy stuff the Augurs were up to, maybe
  1180. 10:05:11 PM Voidwatcher Of course, this whole thing with Void's actions at the Council are also partly reflective of my old/still potential idea that Void knew basically everything in advance
  1181. 10:05:22 PM Voidwatcher I totally understand that that's Shakya thing though
  1182. 10:05:28 PM Voidwatcher So I'm trying to work around it
  1183. 10:05:55 PM Froggy You could always bust out the entrails.
  1184. 10:06:31 PM Voidwatcher What
  1185. 10:06:49 PM Brennus For reading the future
  1186. 10:07:03 PM Froggy Rather than Shakya's nice clean "vision thing", the Voidwatcher sees the future in the guts of dead things.
  1187. 10:07:07 PM Froggy Recently dead things.
  1188. 10:07:28 PM Brennus Not as effective or accurate, but more controlled maybe?
  1189. 10:07:43 PM Voidwatcher Oh fuck
  1190. 10:07:51 PM Voidwatcher That's so genius
  1191. 10:08:58 PM Froggy It just means that his future-reading is more of a focused "I need to know what's coming" thing AND adds a bit of grotesque vileness.
  1192. 10:09:28 PM Voidwatcher It could also be a reason why everyone on his homeworld is dead
  1193. 10:09:52 PM Froggy It.... could. :o
  1194. 10:09:55 PM Froggy :)
  1195. 10:10:15 PM Brennus Oh man, that's some good villainy
  1196. 10:10:58 PM Froggy I particularly like the idea that he decides his own Legion's fate hangs in the balance pre-Council and kills his right-hand man to get a good reading.
  1197. 10:12:11 PM Voidwatcher I like the idea that he keeps doing it to roll the dice so to speak
  1198. 10:12:21 PM Voidwatcher He sees possible futures
  1199. 10:12:24 PM Voidwatcher Not definite ones
  1200. 10:12:33 PM Voidwatcher So he has to keep killing till he gets a future that he likes
  1201. 10:12:36 PM Brennus Trying for a good roll on his scry check
  1202. 10:12:45 PM Froggy Or he sees the future based on his plans?
  1203. 10:13:11 PM Froggy That's distinct from Shakya's visions.
  1204. 10:13:18 PM Froggy There's also a question of how they interact.
  1205. 10:13:47 PM Froggy Shakya can't see the Voidwatcher's interactions with Chaos because Tzeentch.
  1206. 10:13:53 PM Froggy But what about the other way?
  1207. 10:14:21 PM Voidwatcher Voidwatcher can't see Shakya because he's not looking?
  1208. 10:14:59 PM Voidwatcher What do you mean future based on his plans?
  1209. 10:16:11 PM Brennus A future thread where Voidy's plans come to fruition and everything works out like he wants?
  1210. 10:16:15 PM Brennus Or possibly the opposite
  1211. 10:16:19 PM Froggy So, if Voidy plans to invade a planet with a company, he rips open some poor serf and sees the result (holy shit, more xenos than expected, we lose everyone!) So he decides to send a whole chapter and guts another serf. (killallaliens.gif)
  1212. 10:20:12 PM Brennus That is pretty awesome
  1213. 10:21:51 PM Voidwatcher Hm
  1214. 10:22:15 PM Voidwatcher Seems like an interesting angle, but I wonder how it would play into the Black Augurs actual battle strategies
  1215. 10:23:37 PM Froggy Well, at a certain point the time spent murdering peasants becomes more costly than the incremental improvements in efficacy. So he probably only uses it for strategic decisions.
  1216. 10:25:39 PM Voidwatcher That's true. It does lend itself more to my original idea for the Augurs main tactics
  1217. 10:26:01 PM Voidwatcher Which was super-rapid assaults with drop pods and shit on strategic targets
  1218. 10:26:16 PM Voidwatcher Lightning shock and awe
  1219. 10:26:33 PM Voidwatcher Not the generally underhanded and brutal tactics they have now
  1220. 10:26:47 PM Froggy We were thinking about doing something like that with the Iron Rangers. Hmm.
  1221. 10:27:00 PM Froggy Oh!
  1222. 10:27:25 PM Froggy You have to include a thing about blood sympathy. Like an arbitrary and unrelated sacrifice won't give a meaningful prophecy.
  1223. 10:27:33 PM Froggy Hence, kidnappings.
  1224. 10:28:32 PM Brennus Like taking the son of a planetary rule to divine the best plan to overwhelm his defenses?
  1225. 10:28:51 PM Froggy Yep.
  1226. 10:29:00 PM Froggy Way more fun when they're defending, though. :D
  1227. 10:29:31 PM Voidwatcher I gotta go for the night. Sorry for only being on for such a short time
  1228. 10:29:41 PM Voidwatcher I've been out of town/with family for the last little while
  1229. 10:29:45 PM Froggy All good, we got some things done.
  1230. 10:29:52 PM Voidwatcher Excellent
  1231. 10:29:59 PM Voidwatcher I'll be back tomorrow night hopefully
  1232. 10:30:01 PM Brennus It's cool. It is pretty late anyway. How about we call it here?
  1233. 10:30:21 PM Brennus We can do something informal tomorrow, that would be nice. Or, if we can keep the thread up...
  1234. 10:30:35 PM Froggy Sure. Can you post minutes again?
  1235. 10:31:18 PM Brennus Sure thing
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