End of NEET threads on /jp/

End of NEET threads on /jp/

 

(12:56:10) +AoC: Sange Azatsu

(12:56:14) +AoC: what

(12:56:22) +AoC: 's the current policy on MMO in /jp/?

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(13:12:47) +Azatsu: what AoC

(13:12:49) +Azatsu: I have no idea

(13:13:01) +Azatsu: I just delete korean MMOs like how it was decided

(13:13:43) +Azatsu: If you want to change that we can discuss about it but for now that's the official policy

(13:14:13) Sange: just leave those posts or alone or delete the thread

(13:14:28) Sange: we would have to delete half the thread

(13:14:39) Sange: and it would inevitably derail into meta

(13:17:29) +AoC: we might need a all hands discussion on this and NEET threads soon

(13:17:45) Sange: We need it really soon

(13:18:41) +AoC: Also a talk on the current board situation, the attrition war status and where we are board quality wise

(13:18:53) +AoC: I just looked over the archives of the days I was missing

(13:19:00) +Azatsu: they bump the worst threads

(13:19:02) Sange: I was travelling for the fighting game tournament when the neet stuff was decided, and without internet during the mmo stuff. I don't think what we have currently is optimal

(13:19:08) +Azatsu: /ghost/ reached a whole new level of shit

(13:19:20) +AoC: warosu is shitposter grounds, yeah

(13:19:43) +Azatsu: but what do you suggest then sange

(13:19:49) +AoC: ^

(13:21:31) Sange: NEET lifestyle needs to be removed from the rules, it makes no sense when I BR a blog thread using NEET in the OP for off-topic, because there it is, NEET lifestyle in the rules

(13:21:51) +AoC: not that more policy tweaking is going to do much. We've been working hard for the last year and all we've achieved is that the board requires 24/7 moderation just to keep the enclave threads safe

(13:22:32) +Azatsu: I never requested NEET to make it in the rules though

(13:22:51) +Azatsu: actually, weren't they part of the borderline part?

(13:22:52) +AoC: I did as an user, mostly to provide the space that we already had anyway

(13:23:04) Sange: It also makes absolutely no sense to have a blogging containment thread on the board. We are janitors, we can just delete blog threads. They far far easier to contain than all the spam we get. It makes way more sense to just allow good quality NEET threads once in a while than have a perpetual blog thread up

(13:23:21) Sange: They are*

(13:23:26) +AoC: then they took that as meaning "You need a NEET chained thread at all times and everything is your blog if you manage to say 'I'm NEET so that's ok'"

(13:23:35) +Azatsu: At this point I won't think it'll work

(13:23:41) +Azatsu: if you remove the rules they'll just keep making NEET threads

(13:23:51) Sange: It'll work

(13:24:05) +Azatsu: We'll see then

(13:24:21) Sange: half the board don't even wants it and shitposts in all those threads

(13:24:40) Sange: neet lifestyle has nothing to do with otaku culture

(13:24:54) +AoC: So, proposal to tweaking the /jp/ rules to remove "NEET lifestyle"

(13:25:03) Sange: just allow some good neet threads once in a while and delete all blog threads. There, all problems gone.

(13:25:12) %Katsurugi: that seems more reasonable

(13:25:19) %Katsurugi: I don't think you should remove all NEET content

(13:25:52) +AoC: just the systematic blogging threads and "how are you truNEET doing today. I went to the store earlier"

(13:26:31) Sange: NEET is a big problem in Japan so it's still related, the problem with the current threads is that we are deleting the discussion ones to allow space for the blogging ones, when in reality we are janitors and we can just delete all blog threads

(13:26:37) %Katsurugi: in /p/, there are flickr/500px/blog-type threads that come and go

(13:26:52) %Katsurugi: I allow that, but I do not allow advertising of one's site

(13:27:08) +AoC: My only concern with this is that this is a real userbase that will be left orphan and can't really ask them to head to r9k-soc where the focus is relationships

(13:27:24) %Katsurugi: also, I don't like linking to other people's blogs

(13:27:25) +Azatsu: What worries me is that those potential NEET threads will just be used for blogging

(13:27:36) +Azatsu: We might need enforcement

(13:27:44) +Azatsu: Because people will go to those NEET threads sometimes and blog

(13:28:05) Sange: It's a non-issue

(13:28:11) Sange: they won't do that

(13:28:11) +AoC: Can't we just reset /jp/ already?

(13:28:13) Sange: at all

(13:28:24) +Azatsu: You're assuming things

(13:28:38) +Azatsu: But since things aren't really working on those threads, a change may be welcome then

(13:28:55) +AoC: This feels like taking ductape over and over into a failing ship and we're never going to get this thing seaworthy again

(13:29:16) +Azatsu: I agree, I still think things won't work at this point

(13:29:50) Sange: Allow NEET discussion threads once in a while and just remove this "I went to the bathroom just now" threads

(13:30:23) +AoC: we do not mention this NEET discussion once in a while caveat to the userbase though and just look the other way when they do have the odd thread

(13:30:35) +AoC: what I've found is that spelling things out for them is just asking for abuse

(13:30:44) Sange: It's better to mention it

(13:30:50) +AoC: happened with trains and headphones, happening to NEET now

(13:31:13) Sange: Otherwise the NEET userbase will feel like they're being completely kicked out and will start spamming the board

(13:31:36) +AoC: if that's their response then I don't feel like fighting for them

(13:31:52) +AoC: spamming/ban evasion waives away all rights and privileges

(13:32:53) +Azatsu: But AoC, if we just blindly delete the blog threads they will point out that it's in th erules

(13:33:15) +Azatsu: And if we remove them from the rules, no NEET thread will work because they will point out that it's not in the rules anymore

(13:33:24) +Azatsu: and people will cry in the new NEET threads

(13:33:25) Sange: Anyway, I personally just want the NEET lifestyle thing removed from the rules, and the deletion of the blog threads in favor of discussion ones (the opposite happens now, we delete discussion ones because all NEET stuff is supposed to go into the blogging one)

(13:34:00) +Azatsu: If NEET gets completely removed from the rules I'm pretty sure a lot of sperglords will spam the new threads

(13:34:03) +Azatsu: Unless we mention to them

(13:34:04) +AoC: people crying about the rules is going to be a reality for any decision we propose

(13:34:12) Sange: That's why I said it was better to mention an occasional thread is still allowed, Azatsu

(13:34:20) +Azatsu: Just like I said then

(13:34:24) +AoC: rulelawyers right now is just an excuse to shitpost further

(13:34:32) +Azatsu: Do you prefer to do it on /q/ or /jp/ though

(13:34:52) +AoC: by pointing to an existing Youmu thread or that the peaceful MMO thread was pushed to /vg/ months ago

(13:35:14) +AoC: /jp/

(13:35:41) +AoC: So, proposal would be?

(13:35:41) Sange: I'd also like the travelling/translation thing to make its way into the rules

(13:36:14) +Azatsu: Translation?

(13:36:23) +Azatsu: Ah.

(13:36:30) Sange: It was in the sticky but it's not in the rules, so a lot of people still come to ask for tattoo translations and the like

(13:36:46) +AoC: >/jp/ is not a travel agency or your personal translation service

(13:36:49) +Azatsu: Yup

(13:37:13) +AoC: We still delete them either way and clueless outboarders don't really read the rules before posting

(13:37:39) +AoC: it would be another story if they popped up if it's the first time your IP loads the board or something to that degree

(13:39:12) Sange: I propose just removing NEET lifestyle from the rules (it doesn't make sense for a poster to see NEET lifestyle in the rules after getting banned for a NEET thread), deleting all blogging threads, and having a mod post mentioning occasional NEET discussion is still allowed.

(13:39:21) +VCR_Working: ohayoo

(13:39:37) +AoC: define occasional NEET discussion and how it's different from blogging

(13:39:48) +Azatsu: Locking up the thread and making a mod post about it seems better than just creating a random thread and mentioning to /jp/

(13:40:02) +Azatsu: I think he's talking about NEET issues in Japan AoC

(13:40:06) +Azatsu: Not what are you NEETs up to today

(13:40:09) +AoC: Selamat Pagi VCR_Working

(13:40:38) +Azatsu: Ohayou vcr

(13:41:20) +VCR_Working: man i never realized that i totally drew a dakimakura lmao

(13:41:28) +VCR_Working: until someone brought it up

(13:41:31) +Azatsu: That's actually true

(13:41:41) %Katsurugi: VCR_Working: that happens to me all the time

(13:41:46) %Katsurugi: jk >_>;;

(13:42:17) +VCR_Working: anyway it's crackdown time on neet blogging threads?

(13:42:23) +VCR_Working: neet

(13:42:33) +AoC: not until we get a mod post and admin agreement

(13:42:47) +AoC: we're just janitors and can only make change proposals

(13:43:22) %Katsurugi: I would appeal to kami` about that

(13:43:31) %Katsurugi: though I don't know how much he visits /jp/

(13:43:35) Sange: NEET is a major phenomenon in modern Japanese society. Having discussion threads about the issue is far preferred to the blogging threads, which are at a point they're asking how to get /jp/ boyfriends in most threads, and the rest of the thread is filled by ironic remarks like "I'm NEET this weekend"

(13:43:53) %Katsurugi: this weekend?

(13:44:04) +AoC: that's our biggest issue Katsurugi, we don't really have a mod that likes /jp/. Kami fortunately does provide a lot of support for us

(13:44:05) %Katsurugi: it's not something you can turn on and off

(13:44:15) +VCR_Working: lol

(13:44:22) +VCR_Working: yes that is the point

(13:44:48) Sange: Yeah, the posters pissed with the NEET threads shitpost in them making those remarks. "I'm NEET now, just got on vacation from work"

(13:44:53) %Katsurugi: I stopped going to /jp/ a long time ago

(13:45:11) +Azatsu: kami helps once in a while with /jp/

(13:45:15) +AoC: Sange, so personal issues are out the window, only things that affect all/most NEET with a heavy slant towards Japanese issues

(13:45:27) Sange: Yeah

(13:45:34) +AoC: so how to scam American Social Insurance is not allowed

(13:46:20) +Azatsu: If you think this will work, go on then, I understand your reasoning

(13:46:27) +Azatsu: It's a high risk medium reward though

(13:46:31) Sange: It makes absolutely no sense to allow literal /soc/ threads when we deal with much worse everyday, blog threads are a non-issue for us, we can just delete all of them, and most of the board is insatisfied with those threads

(13:46:47) +AoC: Can't blame you Katsurugi, we're on life support mode and the board has been beyond repair for a number of years already

(13:46:48) Sange: unsatisfied

(13:47:27) +AoC: >medium reward

(13:47:30) +AoC: more like none

(13:47:43) Sange: There's absolutely no risk

(13:47:49) Sange: no one wants blog threads on /jp/

(13:48:07) +AoC: well, there's some risk, always, when dealing with /jp/

(13:48:17) +AoC: we're babysitters after all

(13:48:31) Sange: Do you go to the otaku culture board to hear how some anon's dog is currently sick?

(13:48:33) +Azatsu: There risk, they may go crazy and start sperging board with meta

(13:48:38) +Azatsu: *there is

(13:49:04) +Azatsu: Human beings aren't exactly completely predictable beings

(13:49:15) +VCR_Working: blah blah blah waifu thread

(13:49:20) +VCR_Working: *br'd*

(13:49:48) +VCR_Working: tolerance level is gonna be low like yesterday

(13:50:03) +VCR_Working: shut up about it you faggots and just draw

(13:50:04) +Azatsu: After cleaning up a waifu thread from spam and immediately seeing a whole lot of people replying to jackalope softly trolling I almost gave up on thos threads honestly

(13:51:16) Sange: https://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/S10325886#p10327141 Just a quick reminder what's the current level of these threads

(13:51:17) +VCR_Working: i'm not showing any mercy anymore, they need punishment

(13:51:24) +VCR_Working: oh yah azatsu

(13:51:27) +VCR_Working: msg composed

(13:51:30) +AoC: btw

(13:51:34) +Azatsu: Send me in PVT

(13:51:38) +AoC: if we're on NEET crackdown

(13:51:49) +AoC: we better goddamn delete flanfly on sight as well

(13:51:57) +Azatsu: Aren't we already

(13:51:59) Sange: Not on crackdown unless we get changes

(13:52:16) +AoC: we have them on 17m allowance

(13:52:59) +AoC: but I honestly don't see any push towards allowing them in peace again. They've been spam/shitposting for a long time already

(13:53:03) +AoC: even more so now

(13:54:01) +VCR_Working: https://images.4chan.org/a/src/1359578849768.jpg

(13:54:42) Sange: https://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/S10325886#p10327174 That's all the kind of quality posting these threads get

(13:55:55) +Azatsu: sange

(13:55:59) +Azatsu: you didn't babysit that thread did you

(13:56:37) Sange: They also love to use the threads to discuss off-topic subjects like anime outside of /a/

(13:56:42) Sange: no

(13:58:12) +Azatsu: They are awful and they've been awful since the early days of that rule

(13:58:17) %Katsurugi: http://boards.4chan.org/ck/res/4195989

(13:58:18) %Katsurugi: :D

(13:58:32) %Katsurugi: oh you guys

(13:58:35) +VCR_Working: there's gonna be some backlash, fo sho

(13:58:51) +VCR_Working: also lol.

(13:59:01) +Azatsu: They will because it's in the nature of 4chan to complain

(13:59:06) +Azatsu: I still think it's risky as fuck

(13:59:22) +Azatsu: But it could remove a major problem of the board if it goes right

(13:59:26) +VCR_Working: yeah

(13:59:43) +AoC: flawless logic

(13:59:56) +AoC: the vegans I mean

(14:00:35) +Azatsu: Why is /a/ talking about KS so much these days

(14:00:44) +AoC: for /jp/ I think the only major solution at this point in time is descending moot upon them, restarting the board under a new name and with a clear designation this time

(14:01:09) Sange: No Azatsu, there's no risk. I don't know why you insist on that.

(14:01:33) +AoC: Sange, because we have seen what angry posters do to the board once we try to remove them

(14:01:37) Sange: No one will mind blogging threads being gone.

(14:01:55) +AoC: except the bloggers themselves.

(14:02:10) Sange: We deal with Trevor and Tokiko everyday

(14:02:56) Sange: Anything they may do will not be comparable to what we deal with on a daily basis

(14:03:08) Sange: We will also have major support from the board

(14:03:49) +Azatsu: Because there is risk in any change in 4chan

(14:03:54) +Azatsu: And it still might rise up shit

(14:04:04) +Azatsu: You are free to disagree but I still think there is risk

(14:04:07) +VCR_Working: of course it will

(14:04:29) Sange: We are only undoing bad decision making, these threads were never part of /jp/

(14:04:39) +VCR_Working: if we are to do this, i recommend it when i'm off so i can provide backup support

(14:04:53) +VCR_Working: cuz i really do anticipate a good amount of backlash

(14:05:22) +AoC: It's about targeted backlash

(14:05:37) +AoC: we can ignore if it's people resorting to spam to make a point

(14:05:53) +Azatsu: the decision was taken in the /q/ thread via the discussion by people from /jp/

(14:05:53) +AoC: My worry is alienating long time users or contributors

(14:05:59) Sange: There will be little backlash if in the hypothetical situation anything is done, we make it clear not all NEET threads are being banned from /jp/, just the blogging ones

(14:06:11) +AoC: not directly by removing NEET, but by unintentionally creating a hostile environment

(14:06:21) +AoC: yes, I'm still concerned with Okuu poster

(14:06:44) +Azatsu: I'm pretty sure they will do the same thing as they did with trains

(14:06:59) +AoC: since he represents the posters we want to protect but perhaps move away by turning /jp/ into a constant battleground

(14:07:17) +Azatsu: Removing problems and creating other problems is the risk

(14:07:26) +AoC: ...

(14:07:38) +AoC: I think I just realized what we can do

(14:07:42) +AoC: no rule change

(14:08:10) +AoC: just adjust quality standards and say the NEET lifestyle discussion does not include personal issues or blogging and they'll be prosecuted under global six

(14:08:22) +AoC: while still allowing NEET discussion as we mentioned before

(14:08:26) Sange: Why allow a blog thread when we are janitors?

(14:08:58) Sange: It's literally off-topic and we can just remove them. There's no discussion going in them.

(14:09:09) +Azatsu: you said NEET is on topic

(14:09:33) Sange: NEET discussion, not "official blog/shitposting thread"

(14:09:38) +Azatsu: by removing blogging and personal issues and maintaining the discussion to NEET topics that don't include those things it'll be essentially a NEET thread

(14:10:03) +Azatsu: That reasoning is understandable but babysitting didn't work well most of the times

(14:10:14) Sange: You're missing the point

(14:10:31) +AoC: babysitting is necessary if we want to stop undesirable elements to derail threads

(14:10:57) Sange: The NEET threads we would allow are relevant Japanese news, with a subject and theme leading to discussion in the OP

(14:11:18) Sange: Not the "this is the blog thread, post whatever if you have no job" as it currently stands

(14:12:11) +Azatsu: It became like this because the users wanted it to become like this

(14:12:23) +Azatsu: Eliminating them will cause negative reaction

(14:12:49) +Azatsu: NEET threads that refer to the NEET topic by itself didn't have to be kicked out, the idea was to condense blog shit because it was spreading too far in 2012

(14:12:50) Sange: These threads only exist because they were instructed to do so

(14:13:03) +Azatsu: no, they were a condensing form of an issue that already existed

(14:13:13) Sange: Exactly, an issue

(14:13:16) Sange: We are janitors

(14:13:43) Sange: We can just delete those threads now that we have 24h janitoring

(14:14:14) +Azatsu: It did lighten the issue since at least the board wasn't propagated with blogging, but remember that /jp/ did have ronery as a major topic in the beginning

(14:14:17) Sange: It's not like AoC alone anymore like in 2010

(14:14:39) Sange: There's no reason to give leeway to off-topic material we can easily control

(14:15:07) +AoC: we tried to contain all of the blogging threads that had been growing out of control into a single thread

(14:15:27) +AoC: unwittingly we legitimized them by doing so

(14:15:47) +AoC: well, I say we, but it was me with that rules proposal

(14:16:08) +Azatsu: they were allowed since day 1 in a way

(14:16:26) +AoC: >no more so ronery threads in /a/

(14:16:27) Sange: /jp/ was quick to reject ronery threads

(14:16:28) +Azatsu: they just shifted and transformed, and so did the board, and now they are frowned upon because of how awful a fraction of the userbase became

(14:16:31) +AoC: yeah, I remember >>1

(14:17:34) +Azatsu: that doesn't make them against the rules though, just like /a/ refuses naruto but they're not against the rules

(14:17:36) +AoC: my concern is this: If we try to do this crackdown, people are not just going to move away quietly since they have no other place to talk about how they did nothing all day

(14:17:43) +Azatsu: since they are so ingrained to the board, still removing them from the userbase will cause a reaction

(14:17:50) +AoC: /r9ksoc/ doesn't provide that outlet

(14:18:09) Sange: They will, AoC. Like they did with other stuff in 2012

(14:18:11) +Azatsu: /jp/: my friends are here will happen