2015-03-01 11:18:04.790 [PLAY] Orboral: FUck you cheatin piece of shit, he was so in marker range
2015-03-01 11:18:13.453 [PLAY] DB: 1 foot?
2015-03-01 11:18:36.547 [PLAY] Orboral: (square foot, I assume that's a 5ft space)
2015-03-01 11:18:52.899 [PLAY] DB: A square foot is
2015-03-01 11:18:57.431 [PLAY] DB: a square
2015-03-01 11:18:59.757 [PLAY] DB: and all of the sides
2015-03-01 11:19:01.264 [PLAY] DB: are one foot
2015-03-01 11:19:12.667 [PLAY] DB: Beyond that it doesn't reveal invis stuff. If it coats an object they're wearing, it's attended by them
2015-03-01 11:19:18.597 [PLAY] DB: and it gets the benefit of invisibility
2015-03-01 11:19:36.719 [PLAY] Orboral: (He's not attending it he'd have to conceal it on his person since it was after anyway)
2015-03-01 11:19:46.309 [PLAY] DB: Not how invis works
2015-03-01 11:20:00.716 [PLAY] Orboral: (it's exactly how it works, if he turns invisble with dye on him it dosne't do antyhing)
2015-03-01 11:20:05.828 [PLAY] DB: It's the same reason you can't shoot someone invisible with an arrow and just follow where the arrows go
2015-03-01 11:20:19.042 [PLAY] Orboral: (If you hit them after they turn invisble and they can't hide it does)
2015-03-01 11:20:26.898 [PLAY] Orboral: (but ammunjition is destroyed onimpact anyway)
2015-03-01 11:20:29.466 [PLAY] DB: Show me where it says that.
2015-03-01 11:22:02.022 [PLAY] DB: Uh
2015-03-01 11:22:03.440 [PLAY] DB: huhhhhh
2015-03-01 11:22:05.767 [PLAY] Orboral: ( If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).
2015-03-01 11:22:07.260 [PLAY] DB: Alright, you're right.
2015-03-01 11:22:21.489 [PLAY] DB: That being said
2015-03-01 11:22:27.875 [PLAY] DB: Since you moved and fired
2015-03-01 11:22:34.757 [PLAY] DB: it doesn't change the outcome at all, really
2015-03-01 11:22:40.731 [PLAY] DB: Even if the dye was applied
2015-03-01 11:22:43.965 [PLAY] DB: HE was still invisible
2015-03-01 11:23:05.302 [PLAY] DB: and he'd have still received the attack bonus and sneak attack dice
2015-03-01 11:23:05.351 [PLAY] Orboral: You can see the dye though she hsould've had her dex to ac
2015-03-01 11:23:16.729 [PLAY] DB: Show me where it says THAT and I'll concede.
2015-03-01 11:23:28.794 [PLAY] Orboral: I just did
2015-03-01 11:23:37.293 [PLAY] Orboral: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ldv3?Marker-Dye-and-Invisibility
2015-03-01 11:23:58.629 [PLAY] Orboral: what other reason would anyone use it?
2015-03-01 11:24:06.231 [PLAY] DB: Where does this say that you get your dex bonus back if you hit them?
2015-03-01 11:24:09.174 [PLAY] Orboral: I got that arrow speciffically for the drider
2015-03-01 11:24:10.853 [PLAY] DB: You don't, because you don't.
2015-03-01 11:24:19.374 [PLAY] Orboral: they only get it because I can't see them coming
2015-03-01 11:24:24.922 [PLAY] DB: Not true.
2015-03-01 11:24:35.936 [PLAY] Orboral: If I see something coated in Marker It's not really invisible
2015-03-01 11:24:43.596 [PLAY] DB: It's invisible. You can't read his attacks.
2015-03-01 11:24:46.896 [PLAY] DB: You don't get your dex bonus.
2015-03-01 11:24:55.331 [PLAY] Orboral: I just refuted the point but you're not conceding tho
2015-03-01 11:25:01.941 [PLAY] Orboral: you're just saying no
2015-03-01 11:25:13.262 [PLAY] Orboral: show me where it says hes still invisible
2015-03-01 11:25:24.588 [PLAY] DB: Because you didn't show me where it says expressly "You get your dex bonus to AC if they are coated with dye"
2015-03-01 11:25:27.204 [PLAY] DB: The DYE is visible.
2015-03-01 11:25:29.987 [PLAY] DB: HE is still invisible.
2015-03-01 11:25:36.122 [PLAY] Orboral: The Dye still coated him tho
2015-03-01 11:25:43.213 [PLAY] Orboral: his shape would appear unless he somehow hid the dye
2015-03-01 11:25:52.591 [PLAY] DB: Not his full shape, you shot it in between four squares
2015-03-01 11:25:53.128 [PLAY] Orboral: like turned his clothes inside out or something
2015-03-01 11:25:55.574 [PLAY] DB: You splashed him, at most.
2015-03-01 11:26:14.580 [PLAY] Orboral: that's enough to see him advancing
2015-03-01 11:26:18.084 [PLAY] DB: it covers a foot square, you'd need several arrows to cover a person enough to render them visible
2015-03-01 11:26:37.972 [PLAY] DB: You see the dye advancing, but you don't see his attack well enough to read it.
2015-03-01 11:27:38.373 [PLAY] Orboral: seeing the dye advance is arguably enough to retain dex to ac tho
2015-03-01 11:27:42.766 [PLAY] DB: You can't just throw flour around to dispel invisibility.
2015-03-01 11:27:48.471 [PLAY] Orboral: you actually can
2015-03-01 11:27:56.315 [PLAY] Orboral: but they can predistigitation it off
2015-03-01 11:28:04.329 [PLAY] DB: No, you can't. There's a special item for it that does that.
2015-03-01 11:28:06.805 [PLAY] DB: RAW, you cannot.
2015-03-01 11:28:52.633 [PLAY] Orboral: It does the same thing tho, you'd even be able to see their foot prints
2015-03-01 11:29:13.017 [PLAY] DB: It wouldn't have any mechanical effect other than revealing relative location.
2015-03-01 11:29:15.335 [PLAY] Orboral: since the flour picked up under their feet is moved hidden or not
2015-03-01 11:29:50.031 [PLAY] Orboral: it dosen't say that RAW tho, it does say that if you pick up something after the fact and don't hide it it's revealed effectively giving you an idea where it is
2015-03-01 11:30:18.016 [PLAY] DB: yeah
2015-03-01 11:30:21.712 [PLAY] DB: an idea where the person is
2015-03-01 11:30:22.608 [PLAY] Orboral: and considering the nature of his next action I think they should be able to vaguely anticipate the attack
2015-03-01 11:30:30.440 [PLAY] DB: but you still are at a disadvantage when it comes to dodging their attacks
2015-03-01 11:30:36.037 [PLAY] Orboral: he'd still get his bonus to hit from being invisible b ut they should retaint heir dex to ac
2015-03-01 11:30:36.346 [PLAY] DB: because you can't see what they're doing when swinging at you
2015-03-01 11:30:40.352 [PLAY] Orboral: since you aren't actually unseeable
2015-03-01 11:31:13.359 [PLAY] Orboral: that's where the b onus to hit comes to play
2015-03-01 11:31:14.965 [PLAY] DB: Disagree, you're assuming that the loss of dex to AC derives entirely from the fact that you don't know where the person is, in which case a perception check to hear their footsteps would provide the same benefit.
2015-03-01 11:31:32.732 [PLAY] Orboral: Disagree losing dex to AC implies you can't effecitvely see them coming at all or you got feinted
2015-03-01 11:31:43.171 [PLAY] DB: But that's wrong.
2015-03-01 11:31:46.583 [PLAY] Orboral: it's right
2015-03-01 11:31:51.113 [PLAY] DB: Show me where it says that
2015-03-01 11:31:55.434 [PLAY] Orboral: show me where it says that
2015-03-01 11:32:41.647 [PLAY] DB: I'm not saying it says anything, you're the one making the claim that there are specific written rules for losing Dex to AC that have to do with how much you can percieve invisibility. There's not. If you're invisible, people you attack lose their dex bonus to AC.
2015-03-01 11:32:52.337 [PLAY] DB: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#combat-modifiers
2015-03-01 11:32:58.559 [PLAY] DB: Attacker is: Invisible.
2015-03-01 11:33:02.168 [PLAY] DB: +2 bonus, footnote
2015-03-01 11:33:12.640 [PLAY] Orboral: you did tho, and I'm arguing the whole point of marker dye is to defend against said attacks
2015-03-01 11:33:13.691 [PLAY] DB: The defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC.
2015-03-01 11:33:29.899 [PLAY] DB: The point of marker dye is to track people while they're moving around
2015-03-01 11:33:31.463 [PLAY] Orboral: I didn't say he should lose his bonus to hit, I'm sayign she should be able to see him coming and he s hould have to feint
2015-03-01 11:33:35.440 [PLAY] Orboral: exactly
2015-03-01 11:33:35.679 [PLAY] DB: It's not defensive you cunt
2015-03-01 11:33:38.531 [PLAY] DB: it's offensive
2015-03-01 11:33:41.054 [PLAY] Orboral: if you move up to attack I can fuckin gsee you coming
2015-03-01 11:33:43.598 [PLAY] DB: No
2015-03-01 11:33:45.364 [PLAY] Orboral: you retarded fuck lol
2015-03-01 11:33:52.420 [PLAY] DB: You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
2015-03-01 11:33:58.402 [PLAY] Orboral: oh okay
2015-03-01 11:34:15.116 [PLAY] DB: YOU CLEARLY ARE
2015-03-01 11:34:17.609 [PLAY] Orboral: nah you win
2015-03-01 11:34:18.822 [PLAY] Orboral: gj
2015-03-01 11:34:21.455 [PLAY] Orboral: gg wp man