16:34:45: <Imanalt> steel type water veil coil/dd sweeper
16:34:45: <Imanalt> yn
16:35:03: <bigwigs> hm
16:37:54: <Imanalt> steel types lets you beat the primary unaware mon, gives an immunity to toxic, water veil gives you the immunity to burns without a dumb ability, steel is a good enough defensive typing (especially if we stick on a decent secondary type) that it can very viably set up defensively without insane bulk
16:38:51: <srk1214> I like how it crushes all the dumb monoattacking talonflame sets
16:39:02: <Imanalt> lol
16:39:26: <srk1214> it probably needs a dual stab though
16:39:33: <srk1214> steel alone won't power through nearly enough
16:39:38: <Imanalt> on offensive sets yeah
16:39:49: <Imanalt> i think what id like to see is defensive be able to run like
16:39:58: <Imanalt> subcoil steel move recover
16:40:06: <Imanalt> and offense having really good 3 move coverage
16:40:12: <srk1214> ehhhh
16:40:13: <Imanalt> with stab/coverage/coverage
16:40:22: <bigwigs> could electric work? it's pretty good stab and only adds quad ground weakness
16:40:23: <srk1214> I can't see monosteel being the move used on subcoil
16:40:25: <srk1214> cuz heatran
16:40:30: <Imanalt> hm true srk
16:40:31: <srk1214> it would run subcoil with the other stab
16:40:39: <Imanalt> quad weaknesses are killer for defensive boosters
16:40:42: <Imanalt> yeah true
16:40:47: <FMD> But guess what has Ground STAB. The other Unaware Pokemon.
16:40:48: <Imanalt> what could our other stab be idk
16:40:58: <srk1214> needs neutral coverage
16:41:01: <Imanalt> quag is barely relevant, and i dont mind if we say quag has to be kill before we sweep
16:41:04: <srk1214> water could work
16:41:07: <Imanalt> also can't hurt our defensive type much
16:41:08: <srk1214> though ferro lol
16:41:13: <Imanalt> water/steel has more weaks than i'd like
16:41:20: <bigwigs> fighting/steel?
16:41:25: <Imanalt> also sub coil steel/water would set up on ferro SO easily
16:41:43: <Imanalt> anyways i have to get to class, ill let this stew in my brain some and talk more later
16:41:56: <bigwigs> although it removes brave bird resist so idk
16:42:08: <Imanalt> yeah i want to keep bb resist for dd set
16:42:11: <FMD> Bye.
16:42:20: <srk1214> coil is an interesting move
16:42:24: <srk1214> and could maaaaaybe work
16:42:27: <Imanalt> dare i say it
16:42:28: <Imanalt> steel/fairy
16:42:32: <srk1214> plz no
16:42:33: <Imanalt> with a NONSTAB option
16:42:37: <srk1214> and it still doesn't solve heatran
16:42:37: <bigwigs> psychic/steel maybe too lol
16:42:39: <Imanalt> steel/fairy fucks priority
16:42:45: <Imanalt> you run a nonstab water move
16:42:51: <Imanalt> although then you lose to clef
16:42:59: <bigwigs> keep in mind with coil we can use iron tail and zen headbutt stab with no drawbacks
16:43:07: <bigwigs> and meteor mash
16:43:11: <FMD> Hmm... Coil + Stone Edge + Iron Tail + Sub?
16:43:24: <Imanalt> needs recovery
16:43:33: <Imanalt> you could drop sub but its so helpful for setting up on ferro
16:43:57: <Imanalt> water/steel is my current favorite
16:45:04: <bigwigs> that works pretty well
16:45:23: <bigwigs> it isn't weak to too much priority thankfully, very important for this mon
16:46:01: <bigwigs> there's still mach punch but it's just 1
16:47:17: <FMD> What in OU even uses Mach Punch?
16:47:25: <bigwigs> conk
16:47:31: <bigwigs> but that's pretty much it
16:47:36: <bigwigs> so we're in the clear
16:48:30: <albacore> i also support steel/something btw
16:49:08: <albacore> steel/grass would be interesting but probably bad
16:49:49: <bigwigs> grass helps it against powder moves and removes ground weakness but very weak to fire
16:50:12: <bigwigs> and seeing how basically every fire type has will-o-wisp that's not good either
16:50:34: <albacore> steel/grass could use ferro as complete setup fodder which is interesting
16:50:50: <albacore> but 1/3 of the meta walls that dual STAB so idk
16:50:51: <bigwigs> it can still take a twave to the face
16:50:56: <albacore> true
17:40:00: <Imanalt> srk1214:
17:40:14: <srk1214> yessir
17:40:18: <Imanalt> dark poison coil
17:40:27: <Imanalt> it fixes all our problems
17:40:31: <Imanalt> other than not resisting bb
17:40:39: <srk1214> gonna need some serious bulk to deal with ground moves
17:40:51: <srk1214> +1 def isn't much
17:40:56: <Imanalt> a 2x weak isnt that bad, especially since stall isnt running anything stronger than scor
17:41:04: <FMD> But it's only Ground moves.
17:41:20: <srk1214> doesn't stall do SD scor though as a stallbreaker?
17:41:22: <toebag> same issue with water/steel, still weak to ground
17:41:25: <Imanalt> 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 168-198 (48.9 - 57.7%)
17:41:28: <Imanalt> 70/80 bulk
17:41:29: <srk1214> I mean obviously you don't have to beat gliscor
17:41:36: <Imanalt> sdscor on stall is something a thing, which will beat us yeah
17:41:49: <srk1214> I can just see it now
17:41:50: <Imanalt> yeah water/steel is maybe better
17:41:52: <Imanalt> either works
17:41:55: <srk1214> hp ice gothitelle
17:41:59: <srk1214> + coil cap
17:42:11: <bigwigs> oh didn't notice you guys talking lol
17:42:21: <Imanalt> i think water/steel is still our best option
17:42:29: <bigwigs> water/steel is pretty good i agree
17:42:30: <srk1214> there might be a better way than poison/dark tbh
17:42:34: <Imanalt> but dark/poison is also viable
17:42:38: <srk1214> there are plenty of other types with only 1 weak
17:42:39: <srk1214> or 2 weaks
17:42:44: <Imanalt> nah my main goal
17:42:49: <Imanalt> is a burn or toxic immune type
17:42:52: <Imanalt> with an ability for the other
17:42:54: <srk1214> hm
17:42:56: <Imanalt> so we dont need a way to deal with status
17:43:04: <Imanalt> says we dont need restalk OR magic guard/bounce
17:43:11: <bigwigs> id say focus on poison immune
17:43:13: <Snobalt> fire type with immunity/poison heal?
17:43:24: <srk1214> unfortunately fire typing for burns has a lot of things to worry about
17:43:30: <srk1214> so steel/poison might be forced
17:43:31: <Imanalt> poison heal
17:43:33: <Snobalt> true
17:43:33: <bigwigs> since both poison and steel have bad stabs and good defensive matchups
17:43:34: <Imanalt> is actuayl a really possible typing
17:43:37: <Imanalt> er ability
17:43:43: <srk1214> oh god poison heal
17:43:44: <Imanalt> it protects us from all status
17:43:44: <bigwigs> not both on it tho
17:43:46: <srk1214> coil with toxic orb
17:43:50: <srk1214> e_e
17:43:52: <Imanalt> i think poison heal may well be our best option
17:43:54: <srk1214> and that frees up all typings
17:43:59: <Imanalt> although poison heal is REALLY cancerous for dd
17:44:02: <toebag> dat be cray cray
17:44:02: <bigwigs> poison heal might turn us into a subtoxic thing however
17:44:06: <Imanalt> we need an offensive ability to run WITH poison heal
17:44:07: <srk1214> maybe not
17:44:09: <bigwigs> like a gliscor or some shit
17:44:14: <srk1214> maybe you need a really good offensive ability too
17:44:21: <bigwigs> defiant?
17:44:23: <srk1214> and just have the stats department be less overwhelming
17:44:29: <srk1214> so it relies on the awesome abilities more
17:44:30: <Imanalt> sheer force
17:44:31: <Imanalt> or something
17:44:33: <Imanalt> tough claws maybe
17:44:33: <srk1214> and can't do poison heal dd
17:44:37: <bigwigs> ooh sheer force
17:44:45: <srk1214> could be an -ate ability too
17:44:51: <bigwigs> what about guts?
17:44:51: <Imanalt> thats also very doable
17:44:55: <toebag> thought they were illegal?
17:45:03: <bigwigs> you say "hey if you status me im gonna sweep easier"
17:45:04: <srk1214> they're illegal rn as a secondary I think
17:45:09: <srk1214> but we could bend the rules for this CAP
17:45:11: <srk1214> at TL discretion
17:45:14: <toebag> gotcha
17:45:15: <srk1214> the concept might require it
17:45:20: <Imanalt> so what types are a) prioirty resistant, b) decent defensively overall, c) have a spammable monoattacking stab, d) have no 4x weaks
17:45:25: <Imanalt> which seem like theyre all necessary things
17:45:34: <srk1214> electric is the most obvious priority resistant
17:45:36: <srk1214> and has only 1 weak
17:45:46: <Imanalt> can we make dedenne's type
17:45:46: <Imanalt> pls
17:45:47: <bigwigs> water too
17:45:50: <srk1214> heh
17:45:52: <Imanalt> poison/ground as only weaks
17:45:57: <Imanalt> i guess not a spammable stab
17:46:01: <Imanalt> water/electric is possible
17:46:03: <srk1214> electric is decently spammable
17:46:14: <srk1214> not great physically
17:46:23: <Imanalt> nah mono attacking electric sucks
17:46:26: <Imanalt> you cant have an immune
17:46:43: <srk1214> idea
17:46:43: <srk1214> oh god
17:47:00: <srk1214> coil w zap cannon
17:47:05: <srk1214> I know it's special
17:47:06: <srk1214> but
17:47:08: <bigwigs> also it will probably have wild charge as main stab
17:47:14: <bigwigs> oh
17:47:18: <bigwigs> wooow
17:47:34: <srk1214> imanalt coil electric mon with zap cannon
17:47:37: <Imanalt> no
17:47:38: <bigwigs> still a bit shaky with just one boost but i can see it working
17:47:39: <srk1214> and some other second move
17:47:40: <Imanalt> a) not boosted
17:47:43: <Imanalt> b) too good against offense
17:47:45: <srk1214> yeah but the paras lol
17:47:48: <Imanalt> para doesnt help against stall
17:47:51: <Imanalt> it helps against offense
17:47:54: <Imanalt> antithetical to what we need
17:48:03: <srk1214> tbh
17:48:08: <bigwigs> if we want to make it not spammable wild charge can work as its electric stab
17:48:10: <srk1214> electric w poison heal can get away with wild charge
17:48:11: <bigwigs> since recoil
17:48:16: <srk1214> recoil isn't too bad
17:48:18: <srk1214> y
17:48:31: <Imanalt> or bolt strike
17:48:32: <Imanalt> .dancing
17:48:37: <Imanalt> i do think subcoil is our best option though
17:48:38: <bigwigs> lol
17:48:39: <srk1214> nah that's probably too strong
17:48:40: <Imanalt> because it lets you set up on ferro
17:48:48: <srk1214> bolt strike w/stab is strong af
17:48:49: <Imanalt> so i dont want electric as our attacking type
17:48:52: <srk1214> and doesn't even really need coil
17:49:03: <Imanalt> depends how low our attack is :O
17:49:07: <Imanalt> what types are spammable lets see
17:49:07: <srk1214> true
17:49:10: <srk1214> flying
17:49:11: <bigwigs> steel works pretty well with coil too
17:49:14: <Imanalt> dark, water, flying
17:49:17: <bigwigs> meteor mash and iron tail
17:49:25: <Imanalt> steel sucks because tran as a 4x weak is a problem
17:49:28: <srk1214> dark is awkward if we're aiming to beat clefable
17:49:34: <Imanalt> yeah
17:49:49: <Imanalt> which leaves us... water and flying?
17:49:55: <bigwigs> yup
17:49:58: <toebag> fairy type is quite spammable too, but heatran
17:50:20: <srk1214> hm
17:50:23: <srk1214> fighting could be neat
17:50:25: <srk1214> with cross chop
17:50:33: <Imanalt> cant resist bb then
17:50:36: <bigwigs> what about poison with gunk shot?
17:50:37: <srk1214> nah nvm bb
17:50:37: <toebag> brave bird weak
17:50:38: <srk1214> lol
17:50:42: <Imanalt> what type comboes with water or flying are good defensively and resist flying
17:50:44: <srk1214> gunk shot ooo
17:50:44: <Imanalt> water/elec
17:50:48: <Imanalt> flying/rock is actually cool
17:50:49: <Imanalt> wait
17:50:51: <Imanalt> rock is actually also spammable
17:50:58: <bigwigs> true
17:51:01: <Imanalt> rock is a really good option IF we can pair it with a really good defensive type
17:51:09: <Imanalt> rock/flying could be legitimately an option
17:51:17: <srk1214> ehhhhh
17:51:17: <bigwigs> obviously rock/steel would suck
17:51:19: <Imanalt> its an underratedly solid defensive type, which roost helps patch up
17:51:27: <FMD> There aren't any good defensive Rock types, really.
17:51:45: <bigwigs> rock/grass maybe?
17:51:46: <Imanalt> rock/fairy and rock/flying are probably the best two dual types with rock
17:51:48: <bigwigs> or rock/bug?
17:51:55: <Imanalt> rock/gras sas well
17:51:59: <Imanalt> rock/bug is weak to everything and its mother
17:52:04: <dogfish44> Cradily tends to be stupid good in appropriate metas @_@
17:52:08: <Imanalt> rock/flying combines a good defensive and offensive typing
17:52:12: <bigwigs> rock/grass is a neat typing
17:52:28: <FMD> Rock/Grass is priority wweak.
17:52:30: <srk1214> rock has a lot of problems that I'm not sure can be solved by a second typing
17:52:43: <Imanalt> its just a nice combination spammable type + bb resist
17:52:54: <Imanalt> im not sure it sthe best answer, but rock/flying is at least worth looking into further than we are rn
17:53:07: <srk1214> how about a Dragon
17:53:07: <bigwigs> water/electric i think can be really good
17:53:11: <Imanalt> oooh
17:53:19: <Imanalt> yeah water/elec and water/steel are both cool options
17:53:21: <bigwigs> perhaps, drag has some neat resists
17:53:22: <FMD> Rock/Flying is basically the best option. :/
17:53:29: <Imanalt> dragon/what
17:53:29: <srk1214> you get Dragon Rush, neat resists to actually get sub/coil's set up
17:53:31: <bigwigs> dragon/water or dragon/steel?
17:53:34: <srk1214> Dragon Dance isn't a stretch flavor wise
17:53:36: <Imanalt> you want a bb resist
17:53:40: <Snobalt> sorry- kinda got lost in the convo. what attributes are we looking for in the typing?
17:53:48: <srk1214> Dragon/Rock I think
17:53:56: <srk1214> since no one would ever vote for Dragon/Electric lol
17:53:57: <bigwigs> im not sure
17:53:58: <Imanalt> uh
17:53:59: <srk1214> !data cyclohm
17:54:01: <TiBot> Cyclohm - Electric/Dragon | Shield Dust/Static | 108/60/118/112/70/80 | 548 BST | CAP | Low Kick/Grass Knot: 80 BP (59 kg)
17:54:04: <toebag> resists bravebird and most priority, and has spammable STAB
17:54:08: <Imanalt> i listed 4 things to look fo rearlier Snobalt scroll up
17:54:14: <Imanalt> i would c/p but lost in my disconnect
17:54:21: <Snobalt> How about electric/fairy? just the first thing that came to my head
17:54:21: <bigwigs> dragon/steel is a really sweet typing
17:54:31: <srk1214> imanalt said that one earlier. it could work.
17:54:33: <Imanalt> basically spammable stab, priority resist, not bad overall, possible status immune
17:54:43: <bigwigs> you're weak to mach punch
17:54:46: <Imanalt> yeah elec/fairy is alsocool, but neither stab is spammable with the combination of grounds + tran
17:54:46: <bigwigs> but that's it
17:54:49: <albacore> steel/fairy is an option, fairy is fairly spammable
17:54:58: <Imanalt> dragon/electric is a better option than dragon/steel
17:55:00: <bigwigs> fairy/water maybe?
17:55:01: <FMD> I think we can disregard Mach Punch.
17:55:03: <Imanalt> dragon/steel is too good
17:55:06: <srk1214> so sub/coil/dragon rush/stone edge @toxic orb w poison heal
17:55:07: <Imanalt> no bb resist BigWigs
17:55:08: <Snobalt> perhaps we can give this mon the coverage to deal with grounds/tran?
17:55:16: <Imanalt> i'd still run recover even with poison heal probably srk
17:55:25: <dogfish44> prio is realistically, what, Dark/Steel/Bird?
17:55:26: <srk1214> or DD Dragon Claw/Outrage + Stone Edge + 1 more coverage
17:55:26: <Imanalt> Snobalt ideally id like to see a subcoilrecover stab set
17:55:26: <albacore> i think steel/good offensive type is the way to go
17:55:28: <Imanalt> be primary
17:55:35: <Imanalt> dark/bird are biggies, steel and water secondary
17:55:39: <srk1214> problem with that imanalt
17:55:44: <bigwigs> we could have a dark type mon
17:55:45: <srk1214> is you need an attack w good coverage
17:55:47: <srk1214> and a fuckload of PP
17:55:51: <srk1214> otherwise you just outstalled
17:55:53: <Imanalt> steel/dragon gets off of poison heal
17:55:54: <Imanalt> as well
17:55:54: <albacore> dark is spammable af
17:55:56: <Imanalt> and back on water veil
17:55:57: <albacore> esp if knock off
17:56:07: <Imanalt> dark is really realy spammable yeah
17:56:08: <albacore> flying is pretty spammable as well
17:56:16: <bigwigs> im not sure there's any real inaccurate move for dark tho
17:56:22: <Imanalt> yeah rock/dark/fly/water are most spammable things
17:56:26: <Imanalt> we dont need to use the acc boost BigWigs
17:56:33: <Cretacerus> will we be choosing a defensive set anyway?
17:56:46: <srk1214> the subcoil set needs something with at least 20 pp pre-item boosts
17:56:46: <toebag> it's all theory right now
17:56:50: <Snobalt> not necessarily; we're just theorymonning now
17:56:54: <Imanalt> i mean thats what we're discussing right now would be a coil/dd duality
17:56:58: <Cretacerus> we might end up only needing offensive coverage and priority resists
17:56:59: <Snobalt> it depends on what nyttyn picks tonight
17:57:11: <Imanalt> god after his post yesterday
17:57:18: <Imanalt> i have so little faith in nyttyn picking something sane
17:57:19: <bigwigs> water/rock maybe? just maybe?
17:57:23: <Imanalt> and we're fucked
17:57:29: <Imanalt> a 4x weak is really undesirable BigWigs
17:57:34: <Cretacerus> I thought his new post was very accurate
17:57:35: <Snobalt> i didn't analyze his post. what was wrong with it?
17:57:41: <Cretacerus> happy he remained open minded
17:57:52: <Imanalt> Snobalt oh he basically said cm was bad and the only reason anything used it was because they didnt get nasty plot
17:58:15: <Imanalt> i yelled at him a lot on it on irc and he deleted and replaced with whats there now
17:58:27: <Snobalt> ah i see. we discussed NP vs CM a lot yesterday lol
17:58:31: <Cretacerus> nyttyn did say something about putting it up to vote
17:58:36: <Imanalt> oh god
17:58:37: <srk1214> imanalt I'm thinking if it wants subcoil recovery and only 1 attack
17:58:42: <srk1214> it basically has to be stab right?
17:58:49: <Imanalt> the only thing worse than nyttn deciding is vote
17:58:52: <srk1214> +6 shit won't do enough non-stab
17:58:59: <Imanalt> and srk1214 probably yeah, although some examples to the contrary (cress in ru) do exist
17:59:03: <srk1214> with the middling attack this mon would get
17:59:24: <Cretacerus> to be frank, there are ultiple interesting options that would be viable, so why not vote on them?
17:59:25: <Imanalt> the more i think about it the more im liking water/electric
17:59:25: <srk1214> like if it's trying to break a bulky team
17:59:31: <albacore> subcoil with knock off would be nice
17:59:33: <bigwigs> water/dragon's also a nice typing
17:59:38: <srk1214> it has to actually be able to screw with the mons that try to stop it
17:59:41: <albacore> and if its a flying type too keldeo will lose to offensive sets
17:59:45: <Snobalt> bigwigs it doesn't resist BB though
17:59:46: <FMD> Well Imanalt, he was basically just parroting what Pwne said.
17:59:47: <albacore> as will other fighting types
17:59:50: <srk1214> Dark type with Knock Off seems the only logical move
17:59:52: <srk1214> for the monoattacker
17:59:52: <albacore> so that could be really cool
17:59:58: <Imanalt> which pwn post FMD
17:59:59: <Imanalt> link
18:00:02: <Imanalt> i was mostly skimming the thread
18:00:05: <bigwigs> alright, so we want an electric or a steel type
18:00:08: <Cretacerus> I have the feeling we will choose 2 offensive sets though
18:00:15: <bigwigs> or rock but that'd be pretty hard
18:00:19: <Imanalt> i really dislike knock off as amonoattacking move
18:00:21: <dogfish44> Steel locks us out of Poison Heal
18:00:23: <Imanalt> because it sucks for 2hkoing shit
18:00:33: <Imanalt> thats fine dogfish44, water veil steel does the same thing
18:00:37: <Imanalt> just without the residual recovery
18:00:44: <srk1214> nah not really
18:00:49: <srk1214> poison heal is really that good lol
18:00:54: <dogfish44> Mono-Attack I don't like Water or Elec, although not sure how many mons run water absorb nowadays =_='
18:00:56: <albacore> water veil steel water huh
18:00:57: <Snobalt> 97.5 then 65; basically it's a 81.25 bp move if you use it wtice
18:01:05: <Imanalt> which is very weak
18:01:08: <albacore> also poison heal is a broken ability
18:01:09: <Imanalt> Albacore thats one of my favorites right now
18:01:10: <albacore> tbh
18:01:12: <bigwigs> im afraid poison heal might make some people think the wrong way possibly
18:01:23: <Imanalt> yeah im actually concerned about poison heal being too strong
18:01:33: <albacore> it can turn this thing
18:01:35: <albacore> !dt breloom
18:01:38: <Snobalt> if it's too strong we can just downgrade it to immunity
18:01:42: <Snobalt> !data breloom
18:01:43: <TiBot> Breloom - Grass/Fighting | Effect Spore/Poison Heal/Technician (H) | 60/130/80/60/60/70 | 460 BST | OU | Low Kick/Grass Knot: 60 BP (39.2 kg)
18:01:43: <Imanalt> no
18:01:49: <Imanalt> because immunity doesnt protect you from burns too
18:01:49: <albacore> into a viable bulky attacker
18:01:58: <Imanalt> breloom has 130 base attack
18:02:00: <dogfish44> once you're removing poison heal you practically have to go steel, right?
18:02:01: <Snobalt> right- better choice would be to pick poison or steel typing
18:02:01: <Imanalt> id be unhappy if were above 100
18:02:09: <Imanalt> yeah dogfish44, to me rn its poison heal or steel
18:02:10: <Snobalt> cause we're not going the fire-type route it seems
18:02:18: <bigwigs> doesn't seem like it
18:02:30: <FMD> imanalt: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-20-part-1-concept-assessment.3531891/page-2#post-6093340
18:02:35: <srk1214> yeah 100ish seems a good benchmark
18:02:35: <dogfish44> Fire honestly isn't too bad, but it doesn't work with flying-resist types
18:02:39: <Imanalt> problem with poison is you can't have poison + flying resist without being 4x weak to ground
18:02:42: <Imanalt> unless im missing something
18:02:47: <srk1214> where it has to actually get to like +2/3 to really start threatening to break shit
18:02:59: <dogfish44> I mean, if we had enough bulk to reliably survive neutral BBs it'd be cool, but bleh
18:03:04: <Imanalt> FMD nyttyn didnt acknowledge that bulky cm was good
18:03:05: <bigwigs> fire isnt bad at all
18:03:09: <Imanalt> dogfish44 if we're coil boosting we can't have that much bulk
18:03:15: <dogfish44> Exactly
18:03:16: <Imanalt> i think my ideal rn is like 80/80/100 ish bulk
18:03:21: <bigwigs> but it seems like the main focus here is resist da talonflame
18:03:24: <FMD> !type Ground/Electric
18:03:26: <dogfish44> hence Fire's bad for this branch of theorymon
18:03:27: <CDXCIV> 2x Weak: water,grass,ice,ground 2x Resist: poison,flying,rock,steel Immune To: electric
18:03:28: <Snobalt> bigwigs it's not the best choice b/c of grounds and heatran
18:03:30: <albacore> that would also be good bulk for DDing
18:03:36: <Imanalt> yeah fire and poison get ruled out
18:03:43: <Imanalt> which is steel/poison heal
18:03:44: <albacore> !data gyarados
18:03:45: <TiBot> Gyarados - Water/Flying | Intimidate/Moxie (H) | 95/125/79/60/100/81 | 540 BST | OU | Low Kick/Grass Knot: 120 BP (235 kg)
18:03:50: <FMD> 2x Resist: poison,flying,rock,steel
18:04:17: <dogfish44> ground/elec, neither are good mono STABs
18:04:31: <bigwigs> electric is a pretty close second because para immune and few weaknesses
18:04:36: <srk1214> lando-t and lando-i say hi
18:04:40: <srk1214> as do lati@s
18:04:41: <srk1214> etc
18:04:55: <srk1214> celebi
18:04:59: <Imanalt> the types i see as most interesting rn are water/electric, rock/flying @ poison heal, water/steel @water veil
18:05:23: <FMD> Shit STAB, but it resists Poison and Flying without being x4 weak to Ground.
18:05:33: <srk1214> I think the best of that bunch is water/steel w water veil
18:05:34: <Imanalt> i dont see any other types that combine flying resist with no 4x weaks and a spammable stab
18:05:37: <albacore> rock/flying with poison heal scares me
18:05:38: <srk1214> it can set up on a lot of mons
18:05:40: <Imanalt> i agree srk1214
18:05:48: <Imanalt> it will need rly good coverage for dd to be good though
18:05:50: <srk1214> doesn't risk brokennes like poison heal might
18:06:01: <srk1214> I think it just needs Fighting Imanalt
18:06:12: <bigwigs> water/steel with water veil is really nice
18:06:21: <Imanalt> like i think we'd be talking tough claws icicle crash/figting move coverage
18:06:28: <albacore> water/steel could also justifiably run dd
18:06:33: <albacore> make it a seahorse or something
18:06:36: <Imanalt> because i really want to skimp on attack
18:06:38: <srk1214> you really think it needs icicle crash?
18:06:55: <Imanalt> keld's stabs are very managable
18:07:01: <srk1214> steel has some decent attacks for the dragons and water hits lando-t already
18:07:01: <FMD> If we give it Poison Heal, the community is going to try to get Substitute banned from movepool.
18:07:03: <Imanalt> and because keld exists, they arent just managable, theyre managed
18:07:06: <srk1214> coil can use iron tail
18:07:08: <bigwigs> from what i see it'd need a way to fuck ferro then
18:07:15: <bigwigs> fighting move works
18:07:21: <Imanalt> i guess what are latis doing to dd
18:07:31: <srk1214> steel already handles the latis
18:07:32: <Imanalt> actually
18:07:33: <srk1214> unless random tbolt
18:07:37: <Imanalt> i think i prefer water/ice/electric
18:07:37: <bigwigs> aqua tail too
18:07:38: <Imanalt> coverage
18:07:44: <Imanalt> because you beat more offensive mons
18:07:48: <Imanalt> but are wallable by defensive things
18:07:51: <Imanalt> (ferro)
18:07:55: <srk1214> ehhhh
18:08:00: <srk1214> only if ferro has power whip
18:08:19: <Imanalt> i dont care about whether they can do anything back (twave is also there)
18:08:27: <Imanalt> the big thing si that we need to be walled by defensive mons
18:08:38: <Imanalt> although ideally defensive mons that are more common on more defensive teams
18:08:42: <bigwigs> that's why water/electric's nice too, no twave worries
18:08:43: <srk1214> hm water is awkward for not having high bp moves
18:08:55: <dogfish44> Water's best is Aqua Tail iirc?
18:09:02: <Snobalt> crabhammer and aqua tail
18:09:03: <Imanalt> yeah but waterfall > aqua tail
18:09:07: <dogfish44> Elec's the same in that respect, neither type has a Stone Edge of sorts
18:09:08: <Imanalt> crabhammer is 100 now i think
18:09:16: <srk1214> I wouldn't want to give crabhammer personally
18:09:21: <srk1214> but I guess it could work in a pinch
18:09:26: <Imanalt> ha
18:09:27: <Snobalt> with coil the accuracy problems of aqua tail are mitigated, but we might miss the flinch chance
18:09:27: <Imanalt> ha
18:09:28: <Imanalt> pinch
18:09:37: Snobalt rimshots
18:09:42: <dogfish44> ...... is murder legal yet?
18:09:42: <Imanalt> coil is not trying to flinch
18:09:46: <dogfish44> Asking for a friend.
18:09:49: <Imanalt> lol
18:10:04: <Snobalt> hence why aqua tail < waterfall if we go the coil route
18:10:09: <bigwigs> plus meteor mash has no drawbacks now
18:10:17: <Imanalt> meteor mash isnt exactly
18:10:17: <Imanalt> strong
18:10:23: <Imanalt> the 10 bp nerf sucks
18:10:28: <srk1214> well, actually you would use crabhammer
18:10:29: <srk1214> if it got it
18:10:33: <bigwigs> not very, but better than iron head, and iron tail can work too
18:10:38: <Imanalt> yeah
18:10:42: <srk1214> or maybe razor shell
18:10:42: <Imanalt> on coil sure
18:10:44: <Imanalt> but on dd?
18:10:46: <srk1214> for sexy def drops
18:10:59: <Imanalt> srk1214 what if we aim for as good neutral coverage as possible
18:11:02: <Snobalt> iron tail would be great on coil
18:11:05: <Imanalt> but not se on any defensive mons
18:11:07: <Imanalt> which would be like
18:11:08: <srk1214> or wait a minute
18:11:08: <Snobalt> gives the move perfect accuracy
18:11:09: <Imanalt> ground/water/ice
18:11:13: <srk1214> !data magikarp's revenge
18:11:13: <TiBot> Magikarp's Revenge - Water | Physical | Power: 120 | Accuracy: --% | PP: 10 (16) | Flags: Contact | Does many things turn 1. Can't move turn 2.
18:11:16: <srk1214> :o
18:11:16: <Imanalt> lol
18:11:33: <Snobalt> giving this mon magikarp's revenge would be a great idea
18:11:40: <Snobalt> i will add it to the required moves list right now.
18:11:48: <srk1214> ground/water/ice is nice coverage, as mamoswine already knows
18:11:52: <dogfish44> Oh, look, that's a pig flying outside, right by my window =|
18:12:04: <srk1214> guys magikarp's revenge isn't broken on the cap
18:12:05: <srk1214> ...
18:12:08: <srk1214> it only works on magikarp
18:12:25: <srk1214> if you try a custom battle w/ the move on some other mon
18:12:26: <srk1214> it does nothing
18:12:26: <Snobalt> yeah i once sketched it on Necturna and got "it didn't work because it wasn't used by Magikarp!"
18:12:40: <dogfish44> :<
18:12:44: <Snobalt> so let's change the programming on it i guess
18:13:42: <Snobalt> nevermind that. back on topic.
18:14:51: <Snobalt> ground/water/ice is SE on critical defensive mons such as heatran and gliscor
18:14:58: <Snobalt> are you sure we'd want that?