Firlz Plz

10:59 PM <apoc> do you see
10:59 PM <apoc> the shit he is asking
11:00 PM <Frilzzzz> I mean... I think those are all fair questions?
11:01 PM <Frilzzzz> I am one of the "asks infinity questions about my power" people, so I understand
11:01 PM <apoc> What can I make out of keratin?
11:01 PM <apoc> Armor plate/scale?
11:01 PM <apoc> Spikes?
11:01 PM <apoc> Does the power say "armor plates, scales, spikes"?
11:01 PM <apoc> No, it doesn't, it doesn't mention anything even close to it
11:02 PM <apoc> Do I have organs?
11:02 PM <apoc> Do I have eyes?
11:02 PM <apoc> Do I have lungs? Can breathe?
11:02 PM <apoc> Do I have blood system? Can I be poisoned?
11:02 PM <Frilzzzz> "Cape can transform body to reshape and redesign its appearance, with some control over properties such as size, thickness, etc. Alternate form is thin, but durable, and is composed of flesh, tendons, keratin, and cysts. Additionally they can create claws and sharp teeth for weapons. "
11:02 PM <apoc> Does it say you don't have organs? Does it say you can't see? Doesn't it say you don't breathe?
11:02 PM <Frilzzzz> reshape//design implies you can choose what it's physical form is, spikes from keratin is NOT unrealistic
11:02 PM <apoc> If the power implied that use, it would say so
11:03 PM <Frilzzzz> No it wouldn't apoc
11:03 PM <apoc> then someone needs to redesign this power
11:03 PM <Frilzzzz> broad language is used when its "nebulous" or "up to gm"
11:03 PM <apoc> well that shit needs to stop
11:03 PM <apoc> because I've had to rework
11:03 PM <apoc> three powers already
11:03 PM <Frilzzzz> ... that's how it's always been done, and will always be done. A lot of stuff is supposed to be "let the GM decide"
11:04 PM <apoc> because of bullshit lack of mechanical consistency with power creations
11:04 PM <apoc> When Bow genned me a power, he directly defined the uses and the mechanics of it
11:04 PM <Frilzzzz> I tend to try and refine the mechanics as much as everyone will let me, but even then there are a LOT of vague things that end up happening
11:06 PM <apoc> When a power is genned, there should be a direct citation to how it is meant to be mechanically implemented
11:06 PM <apoc> the specifics of the numbers and what stats can be left up to the GM
11:06 PM <Frilzzzz> For instance take my cape from oakland ""Grey Noise" breaker state, has a glitchy appearance ("think MissingNo"). Can fire off sound bolts, but doing so depletes the breaker body. Must absorb noise/sound to recharge. The more variation in the sound absorbed the better. When firing sound-blasts, they take on the sound of the sourceabsorbed. (However, the wavelength is lost when fired, which means that the same sound would need to be absorbed again to fire it).
11:06 PM <Frilzzzz> Can travel as sound (break sound barrier? Fly? Phase through sound-permeable objects?), and has sound-sense instead of normal senses while in breaker state."
11:06 PM <Frilzzzz> the things in parenthesis at the end are questions I needed answered by the GM
11:07 PM <Frilzzzz> other parentheticals were things I specifically asked to be clarified after it was fully genned
11:07 PM <apoc> I don't think that's a well genned power
11:07 PM <Frilzzzz> It's pretty typical, honestly
11:07 PM <apoc> literally just hoists all the work onto the GM
11:07 PM <apoc> like Mishie's
11:08 PM <Frilzzzz> Powers are sort of SUPPOSED to do that, though
11:08 PM <apoc> which was "messes and throws off powers within a radius"
11:08 PM <Frilzzzz> part of the idea in WD is that the player will only have an "idea" of what they can do, and it's up to the GM to decide how to implement it
11:09 PM <Frilzzzz> defining mechanics is typically seen as a bludgeon the player can use to tell the GM "that isn't how my power works", when it's supposed to be basically ENTIRELY up to the GM to decide that
11:09 PM <apoc> that's an ideal I wholeheartedly disagree with
11:10 PM <Frilzzzz> you're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there, and honestly I think I'm probably going to be on the other side.
11:10 PM <Frilzzzz> It's hard enough getting powers genned under the CURRENT system
11:10 PM <Frilzzzz> if we need to start getting agreement on mechanical limits/uses shit is never gonna get done.
11:11 PM <Frilzzzz> If for your own games, you prefer them to be more mechanically defined, then you need to specify that to the people genning the power- and make sure you are there whenever a power for your game is made
11:11 PM <apoc> but you avoid complete mechanical breakdown
11:11 PM <Frilzzzz> as the GM you are EXPLICITLY allowed to no-sir powers being genned
11:11 PM <apoc> which is what happened with Mishie's first session
11:11 PM <Frilzzzz> the thing with mechanical breakdown is in worm sometimes that just happens
11:12 PM <Frilzzzz> you have a power that YOU don't really understand, and it fucks you
11:12 PM <Frilzzzz> that's basically what happened to me in oakland
11:12 PM <apoc> which I don't think lends itself well to a roleplaying game
11:12 PM <Frilzzzz> Apparently bullets shoot sound well enough to make me revert to normal.
11:13 PM <Frilzzzz> my power doesn't clarify whether the sound is "solid" or allows flight, or phasing (it definitely did the latter two, at a cost, the former was less clear even afterwards)
11:14 PM <apoc> which is something that should be defined, always
11:14 PM <apoc> I'm fine with leaving more cerebral and esoteric uses up in the air
11:14 PM <Frilzzzz> Or not, because the wormverse doesn't make such thing convenient or possible in many cases
11:14 PM <apoc> but the basic function of the power should be known to prevent stupid shit that makes the players feel helpless
11:15 PM <apoc> if they feel helpless as a result of the game/story environment, that fine
11:15 PM <apoc> if they are forced into that via unclear mechanics, purposeful or not, that is BAD
11:15 PM <Frilzzzz> apoc, I'm just going to have to disagree with you. Part of the idea for Worm RPs specifically is that sort of crapshoot
11:15 PM <Frilzzzz> it's built into the universe you are playing in- when dealing with powers, even your OWN powers you can never be sure you understand what in the fuck is going on
11:16 PM <Frilzzzz> sometimes you get lucky, and you are "less" helpless with regards to your power (coil), sometimes you just get fucked for no discernable reason (L33t, Labyrinth)
11:17 PM <Frilzzzz> some powers are more clearly defined (clockblocker) others are really really nebulous on when they work on something or not and the distinction is often arbitrary (skitter)
11:17 PM <apoc> Skitter doesn't work for that analogy
11:17 PM <apoc> at all
11:18 PM <Frilzzzz> why can she control crabs?
11:18 PM <Frilzzzz> why can she control people, but only AFTER having her brain messed with?
11:18 PM <apoc> because there's only one or two minor variations on her power that really matter than that's distance and how much info/sight/sound/etc she can get from her bugs
11:18 PM <apoc> aside from that her power is easy to understand and consistent
11:19 PM <Frilzzzz> fine, Weld
11:19 PM <Frilzzzz> why is he sometimes organic
11:19 PM <Frilzzzz> why is he sometimes inorganic?
11:19 PM <Frilzzzz> why is he sometimes BOTH at the same time?
11:19 PM <apoc> because he's a character is a narrative and not a player is a mechanically defined game?
11:19 PM <apoc> you can work with those things and play with them in a purely author-controlled narrative
11:20 PM <Frilzzzz> powergen is supposed to emulate how powers work in the story though
11:20 PM <Frilzzzz> 'bow designed it so that it would have a similar level of "arbitrariness" in the powers, even when you think you understand them (which is filled in by gm fiat)
11:21 PM <apoc> "GM fiat" is not a good thing to base pretty much half a system's decisions off of
11:21 PM <apoc> first of all it forces me to do exponentially more work than in literally any other game I know of
11:21 PM <Frilzzzz> It's typically WAY less than half. You usually figure out a couple straightforward uses in the first session or so, and just stick with those tools
11:21 PM <Frilzzzz> and branch out in emergencies when there's really no choice, or you are REALLY confident it will work
11:22 PM <Frilzzzz> which emulates the organic nature of learning how your power works that would exist for the character
11:22 PM <Frilzzzz> because shards don't come with user-manuals most of the time
11:22 PM <Frilzzzz> so you basically figure out "I can shoot a fireball" and continue to shoot fireballs, and do experiments to see what else you can do, which simply either works or doesn't.
11:22 PM <apoc> yeah but that ends up with the most ideal solution being
11:22 PM <apoc> "sit at home and figure out what my power does for months"
11:22 PM <apoc> a la Taylor
11:23 PM <Frilzzzz> I mean... Isn't that the most idea?
11:23 PM <Frilzzzz> ideal*?
11:23 PM <Frilzzzz> It's part of the reason I think every director in all the PRT quests are idiots for not doing insanely extensive testing of all their capes before sending them on missions
11:23 PM <apoc> It means that any player that actually understands what's going on and how the system works is an idiot for not spending the first three sessions sitting at home playing with their power
11:24 PM <apoc> and pretty much having the GM spoon feed them answers
11:24 PM <Frilzzzz> No, it means they are faithfully roleplaying a human being who isn't great at optimizing behavior
11:24 PM <Frilzzzz> I would know, because I am one of the people who most often DOES spend sessions figuring out my power
11:25 PM <Frilzzzz> but most GMs keep you from doing that consistently by putting a threat on your doorstep... Which is actually VERY accurate to the setting
11:25 PM <Frilzzzz> in-universe one of the biggest causes of cape casualties is that very few capes ever truly come to understand their powers, and part of the reason they don't is that most get thrust into shit situations before they have the time to play with them and figure out how they work
11:26 PM <Frilzzzz> heck, the DIRE situation of the PRT should show that even for the wards/protectorate they don't really have the time to do that themselves, because they are busy sending these people out on patrols to keep the city from burning
[22:04]	apoc	fucking horrible, horrible idea that is neither fun to the GM nor the players