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Template bans fully introduced

a guest Apr 13th, 2015 185 Never
  1. Template bans fully introduced
  2.  
  3. (16:15:19) ‹~moot› the extension is going to be changed soon but i want to force the new templated BRs
  4. (16:15:24) ‹~moot› sorry for the hassle, but this will make BRs actually work
  5. (16:15:35) ‹~moot› if you use templates, whereas as of now they basically never get filled because they are a huge pain in the ass
  6. (16:15:46) ‹~moot› so it's slightly more hassle but will actually result in them getting handled
  7. (16:16:21) ‹%kdel› whoa, new ban requests
  8. (16:16:39) ‹%kdel› awesome
  9. (16:17:16) ‹%kdel› oh, it's still not finished yet
  10. (16:18:15) ‹%dongfix› ya it is
  11. (16:18:20) ‹%dongfix› ALL IS WELL
  12. (16:23:43) ‹+Kyoubro› How are you going to fit BRs into templates?
  13. (16:23:53) ‹+Kyoubro› Tests on Azatsu?
  14. (16:24:29) ‹Azatsu› huehuehue
  15. (16:24:30) ‹+Kyoubro› And I fill out ban requests all the time. The main reason that I don't fill out ban requests is because they get cleared from the queue so slowly.
  16. (16:24:52) ‹+Kyoubro› I don't want to overwhelm the people who are working at it (primarily Katsurugi).
  17. (16:25:53) ‹+RapeApe9k› https://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/20555897#p20558038 wow
  18. (16:25:55) ‹+Kyoubro› Whenever I start filling out ban requests in earnest, the /a/ queue quickly reaches 100.
  19. (16:26:06) ‹+Kyoubro› And then I stop for a while to wait for Katsurugi to catch up.
  20. (16:26:16) ‹+Kazisho› I really only ban request if it's necessary.
  21. (16:26:28) ‹+RapeApe9k› dongfix, HotShot I_AM_ABIB kdel Zorpheus https://boards.4chan.org/b/res/422597032#p422617224 child nudity
  22. (16:26:35) ‹%kdel› http://postimage.org/image/lep9ibjzt/
  23. (16:26:46) ‹%kdel› that's pretty much how i treated ban requests until now
  24. (16:27:11) ‹%kdel› the old system was a big hassle and it was usually more productive to work on actual active reports
  25. (16:28:29) ‹+Kyoubro› https://www.4chan.org/reports/?mode=details&board=a&no=70997130 I'd like to fill out a ban request on this, but it's impossible to explain why without use of the "other" field. I think I'm only ever going to use "other" from now on...
  26. (16:29:04) ‹+Kyoubro› Hell, I actually see myself using ban requests LESS like this.
  27. (16:29:08) ‹%kdel› what're you talking about
  28. (16:29:15) ‹%kdel› just use the global rule for shitposting or trolling
  29. (16:29:20) ‹+Kyoubro› You can't see the image.
  30. (16:29:30) ‹+Kyoubro› The image is why it's banworthy.
  31. (16:29:32) ‹%kdel› yeah we can
  32. (16:29:38) ‹+Kyoubro› ...
  33. (16:29:41) ‹%dongfix› just use "Garbage outside of /b/" or quality of posts
  34. (16:29:44) ‹+Kyoubro› So now we're storing child pornography on the server.
  35. (16:29:47) ‹+Kyoubro› Great.
  36. (16:29:47) ‹+Kazisho› Eh, I thought you couldn't see the images?
  37. (16:29:50) ‹%dongfix› no
  38. (16:29:54) ‹%dongfix› cp is never stored
  39. (16:30:01) ‹+Kyoubro› Then why are you saving ban request images?
  40. (16:30:16) ‹+Kyoubro› Wasn't the reason those weren't saved because you didn't want to save CP on the servers?
  41. (16:30:18) ‹+Kazisho› Maybe it gets deleted if it's a CP request.
  42. (16:30:21) ‹Azatsu› so why not make it like this : ban requests with CP have the images deleted
  43. (16:30:24) ‹+Kazisho› ^
  44. (16:30:31) ‹Azatsu› the rest keeps the images
  45. (16:30:47) ‹+Kyoubro› If it's like that? Okay. If it's not? Then...
  46. (16:31:09) ‹%kdel› please don't ever use other
  47. (16:31:11)  » Quit: Azatsu ‹~Fever@76173142.3BE2E7C3.A3870841.IP› ‹Read error: Connection reset by peer›
  48. (16:31:32) ‹+Kyoubro› Then I guess I'm done filing ban requests. So many of them are context-based that it's just not worth it otherwise.
  49. (16:31:34)  » Join: Azatsu ‹~Fever@76173142.3BE2E7C3.A3870841.IP›
  50. (16:31:44) ‹%kdel› seriously?
  51. (16:31:47) ‹+Kyoubro› Eh, not like they did much of anything most of the time.
  52. (16:31:53) ‹+Kyoubro› Ban evasion and whatnot.
  53. (16:32:05) ‹%kdel› if they're that context heavy, then you might be requesting too trivial stuff
  54. (16:32:06) ‹Azatsu› still
  55. (16:32:20) ‹~moot› if it isn't templated, we shouldnt be banning for it
  56. (16:32:23) ‹%kdel› most banworthy posts should fit under one of the global rules
  57. (16:32:25) ‹~moot› because they arent actually breaking a rule.
  58. (16:32:31) ‹%kdel› yeah
  59. (16:32:33) ‹+Kyoubro› Trolling.
  60. (16:32:38) ‹~moot› against the fucking rules
  61. (16:32:39) ‹~moot› global 2
  62. (16:32:40) ‹+Kyoubro› It's impossible to explain why someone's trolling without context.
  63. (16:32:47) ‹~moot› i dont need to know why
  64. (16:32:48) ‹%kdel› you don't need to EXPLAIN
  65. (16:32:49) ‹~moot› you just need to put in
  66. (16:32:50) ‹~moot› "GLOBAL 2"
  67. (16:32:57) ‹~moot› we can see the image and comment
  68. (16:33:01) ‹%kdel› we mods will look at it and either approve or disapprove of the request
  69. (16:33:11) ‹~moot› we see the board, image, comment, and template
  70. (16:33:13) ‹%kdel› we can figure out for ourselves, and if we can't, we'll ask the janitor who requested it
  71. (16:33:17) ‹~moot› if it isnt obvious to us why you picked a template, youre an idiot
  72. (16:33:22) ‹+Kyoubro› And if you don't know that this has been posted in every thread for the past few weeks?
  73. (16:33:26) ‹~moot› and/or are trying to get us to ban for something that isnt against the rules
  74. (16:33:27) ‹+Kyoubro› Which does happen.
  75. (16:33:31) ‹~moot› then tell us here
  76. (16:33:34) ‹~moot› christ you're the mother of all axe grinders
  77. (16:33:38) ‹+AlBorland› WOAH
  78. (16:33:40) ‹+AlBorland› WOAH
  79. (16:33:43) ‹%kdel› or on /j/ on the board threads
  80. (16:33:47) ‹+AlBorland› LETS NOT JUST HAND AWAY THE TITLE I WORKED SO HARD ON
  81. (16:33:52) ‹+AlBorland› GTFO OF HERE MOOT
  82. (16:33:53) ‹+Kyoubro› Heh.
  83. (16:34:00) ‹+AlBorland› arent there clubs in ibiza you should be hitting?
  84. (16:34:37) ‹+Kyoubro› Well, I guess this is a tool I won't be using much. I hope it serves the other janitors well.
  85. (16:35:37) ‹+Kazisho› I like it, actually...
  86. (16:36:10) ‹~moot› every moderator is forced through templates now anyway
  87. (16:36:20) ‹~moot› and you can select "Other..." and enter your own reason
  88. (16:36:22) ‹~moot› and we can ban for it manually
  89. (16:36:51) ‹~moot› but the point of this is to a) be consistent about ban reasons and lengths, b) actually ban for things that are explicitly against the rules c) make ban requests faster to file and A MILLION TIMES FASTER TO FILL
  90. (16:36:58) ‹~moot› what used to take hours now takes minutes for moderators
  91. (16:37:07) ‹~moot› BRs were never effective for a number of reasons
  92. (16:39:03) ‹+AlBorland› is it the favelas they grew up in?
  93. (16:39:12) ‹+AlBorland› resulting in a lack of quality education?
  94. (16:40:55) ‹Azatsu› Anonymous 09/01/12(Sat)18:40 No.70998084 [Reply][Quick Reply]
  95. (16:40:55) ‹Azatsu› Starcraft 2 is better than Brood War
  96. (16:41:02) ‹+RapeApe9k› while i have no problems with this new system, perhaps an additional text field for janitor comments might address Kyoubro's issue. a template would still be required for any ban request, but the additional field could be used to give context. just a suggestion.
  97. (16:41:02) ‹Azatsu› what a coincidence
  98. (16:41:12) ‹~moot› you can click "other"
  99. (16:41:32) ‹~moot› let me see about adding a notes text field
  100. (16:41:50) ‹+Kyoubro› That would help significantly.
  101. (16:41:58) ‹Azatsu› so you just click a button with the specific rule that the guy is violating, unlike the old ban template that had a lot of options?
  102. (16:42:09) ‹Azatsu› some of them were quite redundant
  103. (16:42:16) ‹~moot› what?
  104. (16:42:25) ‹+RapeApe9k› he's comparing the old to the new
  105. (16:42:32) ‹Azatsu› like, why were there 5 options for permabanned tripfags and etc
  106. (16:42:42) ‹Azatsu› would be easier to just have "rule x - ban evasion, etc."
  107. (16:42:44) ‹+RapeApe9k› some of the old options were rarely used
  108. (16:42:44) ‹~moot› the old system requires a mod look at your reason, look at the post on a separate page, click a ban button, a ban panel popped up, and then populate the ban panel entirely
  109. (16:42:51) ‹~moot› azatsu: that's the way it works now?
  110. (16:42:55) ‹~moot› i dont even know the old system
  111. (16:42:56) ‹Azatsu› yeah
  112. (16:42:59) ‹Azatsu› that's why I think it's better
  113. (16:43:00) ‹~moot› i think you're referring to the chrome extension that i never used
  114. (16:43:01) ‹Azatsu› now
  115. (16:43:06) ‹Azatsu› yeah, that one
  116. (16:43:10) ‹~moot› i never used it
  117. (16:43:19) ‹~moot› i added ~125 ban templates to the system a few weeks ago
  118. (16:43:23) ‹~moot› i went through /rules by hand and added them all
  119. (16:43:34) ‹~moot› so there should be a template for anything in /rules
  120. (16:43:42) ‹~moot› and now mods just click an accept button or deny button
  121. (16:43:54) ‹~moot› accept puts in the ban automatically, no ban panel or anything
  122. (16:43:58) ‹~moot› deny just clears it
  123. (16:44:07) ‹~moot› what once took hours now takes minutes
  124. (16:44:15) ‹~moot› but it requires janitors actually use the templates, because manual entry is still a pain in the ass
  125. (16:44:22) ‹~moot› and again, not what i want because i want 99% of bans to be templated
  126. (16:44:37) ‹~moot› because it standardizes ban reasons and lengths, something we've always sucked at
  127. (16:45:23) ‹Azatsu› so for example, janitor files a ban request for "avatarfagging". mod clicks on accept and then the guy will be banned for avatarfagging without even having to bother with manually choosing the number of
  128. (16:45:27) ‹Azatsu› *the lenght of the ban
  129. (16:45:48) ‹%kdel› yeah, which is why it's so great
  130. (16:46:00) ‹Azatsu› that seems much more consistent and faster
  131. (16:49:35) ‹+RapeApe9k› i admit i'll miss the more visual nature of the chrome extension. having a thumnail and text preview helped in prioritization.
  132. (16:49:42) ‹+Kyoubro› Something worth considering would be a system similar how to the old ban request system worked on the janitor side, where you could click a button to populate an open text field with a reason of your choosing.
  133. (16:49:57) ‹Azatsu› takes too long to evaluate I guess
  134. (16:49:59) ‹+RapeApe9k› that's what he wants to avoid
  135. (16:50:05) ‹+Kyoubro› Any number of reasons could be strung together or edited as you chose.
  136. (16:50:07) ‹+RapeApe9k› as it would be inconsistent
  137. (16:50:19) ‹Azatsu› mootles wants something fast, consistent and practical
  138. (16:50:23) ‹+Kyoubro› Mm, I suppose.
  139. (16:50:32) ‹+RapeApe9k› just choose the most severe infraction
  140. (16:50:50) ‹Azatsu› and if you really want a custom reason, you click on other, as he said
  141. (16:50:50) ‹Azatsu› and input the context
  142. (16:51:04) ‹Azatsu› but I'd imagine that those should be avoided and only used in delicate cases
  143. (16:51:07) ‹+RapeApe9k› if a 'janitor comments' field is added, then context could go there
  144. (16:51:11) ‹+Kyoubro› Given that the only bans on /a/ I really care about are those for the more subtle trolling that isn't obvious in just one post? I can't say I like this system at all.
  145. (16:51:27) ‹+andonuts› http://i.imgur.com/oklxq.jpg
  146. (16:51:29) ‹+andonuts› I know this feel.
  147. (16:51:33) ‹Azatsu› well, you could always give the context to the mod by janiteam
  148. (16:51:42) ‹Azatsu› Hah
  149. (16:51:58) ‹+RapeApe9k› well, only if they're online
  150. (16:52:03) ‹+Kyoubro› ^
  151. (16:52:19) ‹+Kyoubro› I try to do that when I'm able, but sometimes there isn't anyone around.
  152. (16:52:25) ‹Azatsu› Hmm, but then as I've said before you would always have the other option
  153. (16:52:37) ‹%kdel› no offense to the janitors here but the whole point in this standardization is to get rid of personal comments
  154. (16:52:41) ‹+RapeApe9k› if we always use 'other', then we're defeating the purpose of the system
  155. (16:53:08) ‹%kdel› there are hundreds of new reports being made by, i don't know, the minute
  156. (16:53:19) ‹%kdel› and we're not going to look at a detailed comment for each one
  157. (16:53:20) ‹+Kyoubro› Reports or ban requests?
  158. (16:53:31) ‹%kdel› especially since we're just doing this on our own free time
  159. (16:53:47) ‹%kdel› all we want is a CONCISE system that allows for maximum speed nad efficiency
  160. (16:53:49) ‹~moot› the same reason we dont allow notes on user reports is because it's useless noise
  161. (16:54:11) ‹+Kazisho› RapeApe9k, https://www.4chan.org/reports/new.php . But don't use it for ban requests.
  162. (16:54:16) ‹Azatsu› there's always the ban appeal
  163. (16:54:24) ‹+Kyoubro› Then why don't we have more specific report reasons?
  164. (16:54:29) ‹%kdel› the global rules are already far reaching enough, they should all fit under there
  165. (16:54:30) ‹~moot› it should be obvious when looking at a post's image or comment why it was reported as a rule violation, spam, or illegal
  166. (16:54:32) ‹~moot› same goes for BRs
  167. (16:54:39) ‹Azatsu› because everything falls under 3 categories
  168. (16:54:42) ‹Azatsu› literally everything
  169. (16:54:43) ‹~moot› right
  170. (16:54:49) ‹~moot› it's either a RULE VIOLATION, ILLEGAL, or SAM
  171. (16:54:50) ‹~moot› SPAM*
  172. (16:54:56) ‹+Kyoubro› Well, you can say that for ban requests too.
  173. (16:55:34) ‹~moot› huh?
  174. (16:55:48) ‹+Kyoubro› Every ban request falls under rule violation, illegal, or spam.
  175. (16:55:59) ‹~moot› correct!
  176. (16:56:05) ‹~moot› because every fucking ban template deals with one of those three
  177. (16:56:13) ‹~moot› and there is a ban template for /EVERY BANNABLE THING LISTED IN THE RULES/
  178. (16:56:52) ‹+Kyoubro› Wouldn't it also help to extend the number of report reasons so that janitors can go through the report queue more quickly and efficiently?
  179. (16:57:03) ‹~moot› no
  180. (16:57:15) ‹~moot› why would splintering it further help?
  181. (16:57:41) ‹Azatsu› reports fall under the 3 categories. Those 3 categories for reports need to be broken up into the rules categories so there will be specific ban lenghts, and that will make going through the ban requests much easier
  182. (16:57:44) ‹Azatsu› that's how I see it
  183. (16:58:03) ‹~moot› the reason is just to help triage the importance of the report
  184. (16:58:07) ‹~moot› hence why illegal is at the top
  185. (16:58:13) ‹~moot› and posts with multiple reports show above others
  186. (16:59:20) ‹+Kyoubro› Because then it allows users to be clear on what they're reporting something for. "Illegal" is very clear most of the time (although a lot of users seem to think it just means "against global rules"), "spam" is also fairly obvious, but "rule" has a hell of a lot of subdivisions that aren't all obvious without looking at the context of the post.
  187. (16:59:48) ‹~moot› rule violation is binary
  188. (16:59:50) ‹~moot› it IS, or it ISNT
  189. (16:59:59) ‹~moot› if people are reporting for shades of grey, it probably shouldnt have been reported
  190. (17:00:10) ‹Azatsu› gray areas imo just need a deletion
  191. (17:00:15) ‹Azatsu› or even let for users to decide
  192. (17:00:21) ‹+VCR_Working› mm
  193. (17:00:23) ‹~moot› the three reasons triage how important the report is, i do not give two shits about why a user thinks it should be reported, that's for you to decide
  194. (17:00:26) ‹+Kyoubro› For example, there's a group of trolls on /a/ who target Horizon threads. Without context, it looks like the Horizon fans are reporting them because "stop hating what I like", but then when you go and look at the actual CONTEXT it turns out that there are a few trolls who have been doing this for months.
  195. (17:00:44) ‹~moot› great
  196. (17:00:47) ‹~moot› so take that into account!
  197. (17:00:58) ‹~moot› i dont know why you're applying your stupid /a/ drama shit across the board to every other use case for reports
  198. (17:01:03) ‹~moot› you're describing an edge case
  199. (17:01:06) ‹~moot› this works for 99% of cases
  200. (17:01:16) ‹~moot› making the system more complicated to deal with /a/ drama will make it shit
  201. (17:01:22) ‹+Kyoubro› Because these edge cases are what I spend most of my time on with /a/.
  202. (17:01:25) ‹%kdel› look, you guys as janitors are not stupid
  203. (17:01:31) ‹~moot› the point is to get reports sorted as quickly as possible, and ban requests filled as quickly as possible
  204. (17:01:36) ‹~moot› that's it
  205. (17:01:41) ‹%kdel› if YOU as a janitor believes the gray cases are black, then ban request under one of the global rules
  206. (17:01:56) ‹%kdel› then us MODS we'll take a look and if we agree, we'll approve
  207. (17:02:04) ‹%kdel› it's a simple system
  208. (17:02:23) ‹Azatsu› consider that mods that don't understand at all why did you submit that ban request will just go and ask you
  209. (17:02:33) ‹Azatsu› and you explain that horizon threads get specific treatment from a small group of trolls
  210. (17:02:38) ‹%kdel› yes, if we don't know, we will ask you on irc
  211. (17:02:47) ‹%kdel› it's not like this is some sort of automated system
  212. (17:02:50) ‹+Kyoubro› Never been asked in the past. But who knows, that may change.
  213. (17:02:56) ‹+VCR_Working› yeah
  214. (17:02:58) ‹Azatsu› that will probably change
  215. (17:03:03) ‹Azatsu› since now they will go through the BR's
  216. (17:03:04) ‹Azatsu› unlike before
  217. (17:03:08) ‹+andonuts› They can also check out threads pertaining to certain boards on /j/.
  218. (17:03:11) ‹Azatsu› that only 3 or 4 did
  219. (17:03:30) ‹~moot› mods didnt do ban requests because clearing the queue actually took /hours/
  220. (17:03:35) ‹~moot› i can go through 100 templated ban requests in minutes
  221. (17:03:43) ‹Azatsu› yeah they would complain about that
  222. (17:03:48) ‹+Kyoubro› Well, let's see, then. I hope I'm proven wrong.
  223. (17:03:49) ‹~moot› the old system had been ineffective for years
  224. (17:04:39) ‹+RapeApe9k› kdel https://boards.4chan.org/b/res/422617583#p422625086 child nudity
  225. (17:04:52) ‹Azatsu› it surely takes less time to click a yes or no than the old ban quest system, afaik
  226. (17:04:55) ‹+VCR_Working› https://boards.4chan.org/b/res/422617583#p422617583 here as well
  227. (17:04:56) ‹+RapeApe9k› next question is, should illegal shit be reported on channel first?
  228. (17:05:02) ‹+RapeApe9k› *still
  229. (17:05:06) ‹Azatsu› I think so
  230. (17:05:09) ‹Azatsu› since they are a big problem
  231. (17:05:24) ‹%kdel› banned
  232. (17:05:30) ‹~moot› no
  233. (17:05:32) ‹~moot› delete and BR it
  234. (17:05:35) ‹~moot› always remove it as quickly as possible
  235. (17:05:53) ‹~moot› and if there is someone evading, tell a mod to check the BR queue
  236. (17:06:01) ‹~moot› er spamming CP or spamming in general
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