Sibel Edmonds Erdogan Turkish Elections Raw Draft TXT Dump

♪ (intro music) ♪

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome back to The EyeOpener Report.

I'm your host, as always, James Corbett
of CorbettReport.com,

here in the sunny climes of Western Japan,

where the cicadas are chirping,

and it is too hot to close my window.

And today we are joined once again

by the founder and editor
of BoilingFrogsPost.com,

none other than Sibel Edmonds,

recently returned from a trip to
the Middle East.

And we are going to be talking today
on a subject that we covered

back in January, we had a conversation

talking about the CIA's
reverse-engineering of the downfall

of the Turkish Prime Minister Erdoğan.

And the Turkish elections are just
around the corner,

coming up on August 10th,

so we are seeing some moves once again

in the political arena there in Turkey.

And here to break it down for us is
Sibel Edmonds.

Sibel, as always, thank you so much
for joining us today on the program.

Thank you, James, for the opportunity.

Well, it's good to pick your brain
on this,

because I'm sure this is one of
those issues

that has fallen under the radar of
a lot of people,

as there's so much going on on
the world stage right now,

but I think it is important, what's
happening in Turkey right now.

There are some very interesting moves
and maneuvers

that are happening in Turkish politics.

And you have pointed this out to me in
an email exchange that we had,

in some articles that you wanted to
go over.

So why don't we start talking about
the issues...

not necessarily the domestic issues

surrounding this Turkish
political election,

but the issues specifically that Erdoğan
has been pushing in recent years,

that is part of that engineered downfall

that we were talking about earlier
in the year.

And I guess the way to approach this

is to start talking about
Erdoğan's enemies.

Because as we talked about in a
previous previous conversation

about who's at the top of the pyramid,

there are, of course, certain industries
and certain players

who do tend to control political
associations, political groupings,

in pretty much every Western
developed nation.

And of course, Turkey not really
any different.

But Erdoğan has been making some
pretty dramatic moves

to piss off some very powerful and
important people in recent years.

Why don't we start talking about
some of those maneuvers,

and I don't know where you want to begin,

but let's start with, perhaps,

with talking about the pharmaceutical
industry in Turkey,

and what Erdoğan has been doing
to block that.

Yes, James. And I want to also,
as a side note...

-- actually, maybe not a side note, but a main note --

to say that the enemies
that we are going to talk about

happen to be the enemies you and I
have been covering a lot

through Boiling Frogs Post and
The Corbett Report,

in terms of the Big Pharma,
and the lobbies,

and the military-industrial complex,
et cetera.

And it is absolutely international,

because we know the biggest of the biggest

are the ones that are here in the
Western world,

especially in the United States.

But I've travelled extensively,

and I interviewed many, many,
many people during my travel.

Turkish people, and from all
walks of life.

From doctors and teachers,

to construction workers and taxi drivers

and truck drivers and textile moguls,

and I spoke to, I would say, several
dozens of people -- Turkish people --

each with their own perspective;
each with their own views, point of view.

Some of them pro- Prime Minister Erdoğan.

Some of them anti- or strongly
anti- Prime Minister Erdoğan.

And I also learned about certain things
that I did not know.

I thought I was informed on
all issues Turkey,

but I guess my main focus, or our
main focus, was mainly on the CIA,

the stuff that has to do with Gülen,

a little bit with the SCO,

and also the military-industrial complex

and his fall-out with the moguls of
the military-industrial complex.

But there were areas that I didn't
know anything about,

and I began finding out,

and I was surprised.

I was, actually, stronger than surprised:

I was shocked.

I was discussing with some doctors,
Turkish doctors,

about the medical and the health
industry in the United States,

and the healthcare, and how it is.

And the conversation came to
this incestuous relationship

between the doctors

-- whom you're supposed to be trusting --

and the Big Pharma.

And the kickbacks: that they have
strong lobbies with tens of millions,

hundreds of millions of dollars poured
into lobbies, the big pharmas.

But also, all the kickbacks. Which are
all bribery, payoffs to the doctors

to prescribe their medication more,
and as a result get commission.

Various ways: you know, the trips
that are sponsored

by the big pharma on their "conferences."

And then they started telling me
about how the kickbacks and the lobby

was, or used to be, even stronger,
and more overt in Turkey.

They said, for example, not only that they
offered us

-- those of us who prescribe lots of
medication for a particular company,

such as Pfizer, Merck, et cetera --

such as conferences, vacations in Maui,
et cetera --

but they overtly sponsored children
of the doctors, Turkish doctors

who prescribed certain medication a lot,

above certain percentage or a
certain number,

their kids were placed by these
big US pharmas

into top Ivy League schools in
the United States.

And they would guarantee it, saying, "If
you go above this, you get this kickback,"

"and if you prescribe to this level,"

"then we guarantee that we can place
your son at Georgetown University,"

"or in Harvard. And we have a deal."

This is what the pharma, this big
US pharma,

has been telling these Turkish
doctors: that,

"we'll place your kid in these schools,
because we have an arrangement."

So this actually involved these private
education institutions

here in the United States as well.

I was flabbergasted.

However, they told me that, well,
those days ended.

Because, as you know, Prime Minister
Erdoğan put a stop to that.

And basically illegalized it.

And right away my radars went up.

I said, "What do you mean?
When did this happen?"

They said, "Oh, a couple of years
back, couple of years ago."

He said this was absolutely a
wrong practice,

and I'm going to propose this
bill and pass it,

and we're gonna make it illegal.

Because that kind of a relationship
between the doctors

and the pharmaceutical, the big pharma,

is absolutely detrimental for the public's
health and well-being.

I mean, this is against the public good.

And so therefore they told me
he singlehandedly

put this law in effect immediately.

And put an end, absolutely, to these
kickbacks from the big pharmas.

Not only that: he also went further,
and he said,

"It's also illegal for these
pharmaceutical companies,"

"the big pharma, to come and hand out
bags and bags..."

I'm talking about tens of, hundreds of
kilograms of sample medicine.

A lot of these medications, they are
on the trial stage,

but because the human lives are more
valuable

in nations like, maybe, UK and US,

maybe much less valuable in Turkey,

and of no value at all in countries,
third-world countries in Africa,

the pharmaceutical, big pharma,
they do that a lot.

It hasn't gotten through any of these
testing periods, but they hand them:

"This is good for AIDS; this is good
for depression."

"We are giving it to you free."

"The only thing we are requesting
you doctors is to report back to us:"

"How many of your patients
died taking this?"

"Or how many of them collapsed?"

"So you become our guinea pigs."

Because that's what they are, right?

We have divided the world: those who
rule, those who are being ruled,

and the values assigned to
their various lives.

Palestinians versus the Israelis: well,
the similar concept.

Well, Prime Minister Erdoğan illegalized,

and said, they are not allowed to walk
in and hand out these samples.

Because, again, this practice is wrong.

I don't... I can't imagine anyone who
would disagree,

except the big pharma and their lobby,

with this unbelievable law.

Not only that: I have been researching,

I have been talking to other people
around Europe, where I travel:

nobody can think of any President or
Prime Minister

in the recent modern history

who has stood up and taken a position
like this

against the Big Pharma.

-- and we know how criminal they are,
how dirty they are, these people --

and go beyond talk.

We have had some politicians who have
made some gestures in words, saying,

"Oh, this is something that needs to
come under certain types of regulation,"

"maybe we'll think about it after
I get elected."

"Hopefully we'll forget about it."

We have never had any world leader

in the Western World

who has had the guts to stand up to
the Big Pharma.

You're looking at trillion dollar
industry.

Military-industrial complex,

then you have the Big Pharma,

and you have the financial institutions,

and then you have the oil sector.

The four top biggest sections of the
top corporations.

And to put in place, put in effect,
a law like this,

execute it, and stick with it:

it's amazing.

And guess what?

I also started researching it to see

how many English articles have been
written in the United States,

in the United Kingdom.

Because a lot of articles -- as we know,
as we talked about, James --

have been written on Erdoğan, how bad
he is, how awful Erdoğan is,

how he has been violating human rights,
freedom, democracy.

How he's a dictator, and covering even
his personal life.

We have not had a single article written

by New York Times or Washington Post
or The Guardian how Erdoğan

the only known Prime Minister in the
modern history,

has stood up against this big, nasty,
dirty pharma

and put in place a law like this.

And I'm thinking, imagine if the public
in the US

or in the UK, or in Germany,

were to read about this article.

Especially the ones who are braindead:
the majority,

who don't have the critical thinking
ability and say,

"Yeah, you know what? To think of it,
that is a horrible practice."

"They get kickback from pharma to
prescribe,"

"because, they are making profit
out of that?"

"Therefore, how can I trust my doctor?"

Why in the world our Presidents

-- whether it's Obama or Bush or the
ones before that, Clinton --

why nobody has ever done such a thing?

It's very simple, the notion.

It's very clearly a right thing to do
for the public's good,

for the public's right, for their benefit.

How come we've never had a single
politician in the history of this country

who has had the cojones
-- excuse my language --

to stand up to the Big Pharma and say,
"This is what I'm gonna do."?

Not like those [xx] stuff.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna put it
in effect, we're gonna pass it.

Because I can't imagine anybody
in Congress who's elected

who can say this is a bad law.

Can you imagine anyone having the audacity

to stand up and oppose a law like this,

or a regulation like this?

Well, how come it hasn't been done.

That would involve critical thinking.

I believe Western media covering
this brave act

would start some sorts of revolutions
within the Western world saying,

"This should be the case. This should be
the standard. This should be the norm."

Because the current system we have is
incestuous.

It's despicable, OK?

Well, nobody has written
anything about it.

And as you can imagine,

Prime Minister Erdoğan has created
some ginormous enemies.

You have these top pharmaceutical
companies in the world,

declaring a war against him.

How? By their sponsorships in newspapers,

like The New York Times
and Washington Post, OK?

By their own NGOs, the one that they
create under themselves, they fund,

to write and criticize saying
how awful he is.

They have declared a war against him.

They have even gone further:

they are saying, "We are boycotting
Turkey,"

"and we are not gonna send some
of our more popular medicine."

So that way, some people in Turkey
will say,

"Well, I want particular brand
of medication,"

and go to pharmacies, and
the pharmacist says,

"They are not selling us anymore,"

"because currently they are pissed
with our leader."

"And because of that, they want
to artificially create"

"some sort of an outrage among
certain percentage of Turkish people,"

to say, "This is not right! I can't get
the brand!"

But it hasn't been successful.

As far as the public is concerned,

people have been cheering.

Some of the doctors, they are cheering,
that I spoke with.

I had a few doctors who said, "Ahem,
well, actually, this is pretty good..."

"But I believe, or we believe,
he is going too far."

I said, "What do you mean?"

He's like, "Well, it's good to maybe
cut back and put a percentage."

"And say, well, they cannot give you
kickback above certain dollar number,"

"Or above certain trips."

"Or maybe they can give you
this many samples, but not a lot."

"But he's being radical, man!"

"He's going all the way, to such an
extreme, and extreme is not good."

And I believe some of those doctors

used to be the beneficiaries of these
really highly-troubling practices

that have become the norm here
and abroad, of the kickbacks.

So that's one thing that was
surprising and I found out,

and I felt like I wanted to stand up and
cheer for anyone who has the courage,

who has the interest of his people,
the nation, the world's people in mind,

to say, "I'm gonna do this."

And again, as I said: I don't know of
any world leader who has done this.

And this, in my book, if we have
columns, negative/positive,

puts one of the top, highest-level
positive for Prime Minister Erdoğan:

something that should be,
absolutely, applauded.

Not by, only, Turkish people:
by people around the world.

So, that was one, and that was
the pharmaceutical.

And then I spoke with some people
within the financial sectors in Turkey,

whether they are businessmen,

or they are working with some of the big
to medium-sized financial institutions,

talking about how Prime Minister Erdoğan

has created some big enemies
within the financial institutions,

especially those mega-mega ones,

a lot of them being the US, American
financial institutions.

That was something, again, I didn't
know anything about.

Because we focused on Turkey's
foreign policy and practices.

We were the first ones to criticize
Prime Mnister Erdoğan, James,

with his move in backing the US
with Syria,

and having the training camps in Turkey,

long before anyone reported
in the US, Western media,

that they were secretly training
people against Assad.

And we criticized him.

We actually made big enemies
within the government,

insiders in Turkey, by doing that.

So yes, we have been talking
about negatives.

But let's talk about some of the positives

that you will not see anywhere
in the mainstream media.

Well, I didn't know anything about this:

"financial moves" by the Prime Minister
of Turkey

that has created these big enemies
within the financial sector.

Well, I was told that there is this...

there are these institutions,
banking institutions,

called Islamic Banks. I'm not very
familiar with them.

So broadly speaking, generally
speaking, the Islamic banking...

because Islam as a religion
absolutely forbids interest.

If you have millions of dollars,
whatever, money,

you can't put it in the bank and
receive interest,

because the money earned interest
is considered dirty money

that is made off of the hard work or
the blood of other people, et cetera.

So there is that notion, principle.

I'm not really getting into details,

because it's one of the things I
need to research more,

because I'm not sure how some of these
institutions, the Islamic banks, operate.

And also, going and getting money from
the bank

and paying bank interest money,

is also forbidden.

The notion of interest is forbidden
in Islam.

So that's just kind of simplifying it.

Well, Islamic banks have been
formed throughout the Middle East,

including in Turkey,

that say, "We operate based on
profit-sharing."

"Meaning, we lend, and if there
is profit,"

"that profit is shared. Some of it
is given to the bank."

Maybe it's similar to the interest,
but if you don't make profit,

you are not gonna be penalized for that.

So we share, all of us, everybody
who uses this bank, the profit;

but also we suffer the loses when
we have losses.

So, that's the general concept. Because
of some nations that are more Islamic,

they have been practicing it, they have
had many banks like this.

In Turkey, we had few up until 2001,
2002. Maybe three or four.

I'm not sure of the numbers.

However, since 2002,

during Prime Minister Erdoğan's
administration,

that number has increased by six-fold.

Now we have many, many banks in Turkey

that are considered Islamic banks.

And they have become very popular:

among businessmen, among the
public, among people.

A lot of them, they put their
savings there.

A lot of businessmen, they use
these banks.

And that has been pissing off -- again,
excuse my language -- the IMF,

and also the major financial institutions:
Citibank, et cetera.

We can just make a list out
of those major financial institutions:

they find it threatening,

and they find it something
that is contrary

to the Western notion of how
banking is supposed to be.

So he has been attacked a lot on this,

and again, I talked with some people
within the financial institutions

who are anti-Prime Minister Erdoğan.

And they said, "This is absolutely
outrageous."

"By doing that, he is alienating"

" a lot of foreign investments from
the Western countries. "

"He is alienating the IMF."

Well, in the parenthesis:
Good for you! Please alienate the IMF.

He's alienating major financial
institutions,

and some of them are retaliating.

And that has an effect in our
stock market, and et cetera.

And I have spoken with people,

and one particular person
is a textile mogul,

very successful businessman
worth tens of millions of dollars.

And he said,

"You know what? I have always
been a believer"

"of interest rates not being a good
thing. You don't deal with interest."

"So during all my business years,
whenever I have extra money,"

"I never put it in the bank. I invested it
in land, or some housing that I rented,"

"because I didn't want to deal
with that dirty money."

"Because I'm a believer: I believe
in this notion."

"Now I have the opportunity to actually
use these banks, "

"because I am using them, and when
I make profit, they make profit. "

"And when they make profit,
I make profit. "

"And it works out very good for me, "

"and I applaud this move. "

So again, you have two sides of the story,

but also, some of these financial
experts were saying,

it also decreases this notion
of Islamic banking,

the government's influence of how
much they can play with the interest rate.

You know how we are doing it here
with the Federal Reserve.

You are the guru; you are the expert,
James. I'm not.

I'm like a student: I'm still learning.

But they can't... when the bank
operates that way,

what government comes and
dictates then doesn't matter

in terms of "We've got to switch this,"

"We're gonna lower it, we're
gonna increase it."

And in a way, that is not for
big government, pro-government,

yet he has again taken on this approach,

And, despite the prediction

that that was going to cause a lot
of damage for Turkey,

foreign investment in Turkey has
increased tremendously.

When Europe has been going
through all these financial crises,

going bankrupt,

you have had a lot of countries,
especially oil nations and things,

bringing and putting their money
in there, saying,

"Well, this is one place to invest."

"And when we invest, we like to
deal with these Islamic banks,"

because they are investing in
construction, roads, bridge, et cetera,

and they have been getting a
good profit out of that as well.

This is one of the reasons while US has
been, Europe has been going bankrupt,

Turkey's economy has been floating fairly
well.

I'm not saying perfect, but relatively
speaking,

if we were to compare, let's say, Spain,
Greece,

to what has been happening,
economically speaking, in Turkey.

So then we have that,

and again, taking on this big,
major enemies,

the big financial institutions,
all of them Western,

making them enemies: imagine
what that's gonna do to you

with the New York Times or
Washington Post

or Soros institution, right?

You're not gonna be a popular Prime
Minister to talk about or write about.

You're gonna be the bad, bad, bad
nasty enemy.

Because you are the enemy of the
Big Pharma.

You are the big enemy of the
big financial institutions.

Again, that goes to the positive
for Prime Minister Erdoğan's camp.

And of course, we have the
international angle in this,

with the recent events, what's unfolding.

And I tend to get emotional when
I talk about -- excuse me --

about Palestine and what has been
happening there.

For many people, it's an issue that
now they have been paying attention.

I have been paying attention to this
since 1970s.

When I lived in Iran, my father
went to Palestine,

and a lot of refugees came from
Palestine, that they were homeless.

And they came to Iran, and they
were my classmates.

I know friends whose cousins
and brothers were tortured

and mutilated by the Israeli occupers.

So this is a topic that I feel
very strong about.

But as we know -- and that has been, in
the US media, even, believe me or not --

the Arab nations have been awfully quiet.

All the neighboring countries have
been awfully quiet.

Well, it shouldn't come as any surprise,

because the heads of states, they
are all our puppets.

Can we name, let's say, more than
two or three in the region

that hasn't been installed by us?

Let's go through: Tunisia? Installed
by us, checkmark.

Egypt? We took care of that; installed
by us. Checkmark.

Saudi Arabia? They've been always our
little puppet and Israel's buddy-buddy,

so checkmark.

So that's not really surprising for us
who've been paying attention.

But in the region, the only country
that's been

-- outside Iran --

has been speaking up on these
issues very strongly

without sugarcoating it, without
making it mild,

has been, again, Prime Minister Erdoğan.

And that... maybe you will show some
of the clips from the newspaper articles,

the way the Western media approach this,

because of his stand -- strong stand,
Prime Minister Erdoğan --

against these genocidal practices in
that region, in Gaza,

he... he is being attacked as a leader who
is now isolating the world leaders,

including his Arab neighbors.

Because they are looking at him, saying,

"You jerk! Now you make us look
like a jerk!"

Because, think about it: if you're in
Saudi Arabia, if you're among the people,

and you see how horrendous and
awful this is,

here are your leaders, the puppets
who are ruling you,

your rulers are sitting there using
some whitewash language

on the genocidal practices over there.

And here is Turkey, quarter-Europe,
not even considered an Arab nation,

and you have a leader there, a Prime
Minister, who's saying,

"You know what? This award that
you gave me, Israelis and the US?"

"Take it: take it back! I don't want
this dirty award. Shove it!"

I mean, I want to hear about examples
of world leaders who have engaged

in this kind of stand when it comes
to the occupiers there.

And I say "occupiers."

Some people say, "How come you're not talking or writing about Israel?"

Well, one of the reasons I don't is,

I don't like to use Israel as a word
for a nation.

I mean, personally, I do not recognize
a nation

-- a legal nation --

that is called Israel.

They've always been "the occupiers,"
regardless of how they were recognized.

The United States was the first nation to
recognize

the illegal occupation called Israel.

Well, for me: I haven't recognized it.

I am nationless, basically. I am me.
And so I don't know a country like that.

I know Palestine; I know Palestinians,
and I know the occupiers.

And that's how it is for me.

So I don't go, keep saying "Israel."
I don't like to even use the word for it.

And some people may take an offense,
and again, that doesn't bother me.

Because that's one of the reasons I'm...
really, I like the position I'm in.

I don't have to worry about who likes
me or who doesn't like me.

Nobody can affect my career, or my
livelihood,

or my funding of some sort of an
organization.

I don't have any of those stuff,
so I don't think...

and plus, I'm never covered by
the mainstream media,

so I'm not gonna cut any bridges,
or lose and bridges, or destroy any...

so, I state my opinion.

And in case some people may wonder, say,

"Sibel Edmonds may be biased
towards the occupiers there"

"by saying this is a good move
by Erdoğan," well, that's true.

Maybe some people would consider
me biased.

Because I've always had this stand:

that's my belief, that's my personal
belief of the occupiers in Palestine.

And if Americans, people in the Western world...

but let's talk about the Americans here:

if they believe it doesn't matter...

-- they went there, they were recognized,
that's the end of it --

because thousands of, three thousand
years ago they called it their land,

then we should also evacuate the
United States

and really give the land back to people
who occupied this place before us.

We can't have it both ways.

But Prime Minister Erdoğan has been
very strong on this issue

of the violations, the genocidal practices
over there,

and he has again made big enemies.

Not within the Western world, but also
within the Eastern world.

We have many Arab rulers who are
absolutely agitated,

because when you have someone in
this position,

being the Prime Minister of a country,

talk like this openly,

Obama coming and saying, in case of
these genocidal practices, saying:

"Well, we regret that these civilians are
being killed."

"We hope they will curb this."

Then you compare those statements
made by Obama

to the statement made by Obama
and Bush towards Assad,

being engaged in genocidal, awful,
evil moves,

and it's the world's responsibility to
go and bomb the hell out of them,

and then... well, what's the difference?

Look at the numbers. Look at the pictures.

There is a big difference today: we
have this medium called Internet.

I was exposed to these facts when
I was seven, eight years old in Iran,

because I was on the other side.

People here, they were not.

When I met my husband, 24 years ago,

when we were talking,

he had never seen these types of pictures
in The New York Times that he followed,

or Washington Post. So the only
thing he saw was,

on the front page they had an Israeli
mother who lost her child.

And I feel horrible for anyone who
loses their child, including her.

Big picture, huge caption, front-page.

And once in a while, on page B12, they
would say that 165 children

were burned to death. Well, he never
got to the page... B65.

So, he used to sit down and argue
with me, saying,

"Well, maybe you're biased because
you grew up in those countries,"

"and you saw those."

"We have been seeing what has been
being done"

"to the Jewish population there,
correct?."

And now, in the last eight, ten years,

seeing the pictures from the
other sources now available,

that were not available to him,
to my husband,

he is on my side.

Because I used to have fights,
arguments with him over this issue.

And then we just decided to
never talk about it,

because we were not gonna
stay married if we did.

And we don't have that problem.

Well, today we have people
seeing these atrocities.

And today, actually, that's positive.

Everything else is horrendous: it's awful.

But again, I applaud...

I really applaud Prime Minister Erdoğan
for these moves,

including the Big Pharma, his stand.

And I don't want to sound like someone
who is coming here

and saying, "He's an angel; he's great;
I love him; go vote for him!"

But what I want to tell people, first,
the people in Turkey,

is we've never had any Prime Minister
doing things like that for the public.

We have had a lot of corrupt people
-- all of them -- all of them, OK?

Tremendous level of corruption.

We have had all of them engage in
human rights violations.

And yet we have never had ones
who have done moves

that have even come close to this.

So while Turkey is disagreeing with the
Prime Minister

on the real negative things...
-- and he has many --

they need to stand by him on these
positive, extraordinary,

extraordinary positions and practices

that no world leader has had the
courage to do.

Many Turks are nationalist.
They're like...

yeah, especially Turkish men, saying,
"Yeah, I've got big ones!"

Well, this guy has got big ones, OK?

If you wnat to think about the Turkish
pride business, the nationalism,

-- I don't subscribe to those
kinds of notions --

think about it: you really have a brave,
courageous, strong Turkish Prime Minister

that you've never had. Here he is.

Now, fight all his negative with him.

As much as possible, out there, vocal.

But support his good stuff. Because
if he's destroyed, if he's taken out...

-- because that's what they want to do:
that's what the big powers want to do,

the Big Pharma, and the
military-industrial complex

and the financial institutions:
they want this Prime Minister out.

They don't want him to be a President --

if he's taken out by those powers,
you are losers in Turkey.

We are losers in the world, too.

Because I want people to know
that our leaders...

I don't even like the word "leaders"

these... there are people in these
positions, they can do things.

It's not impossible, it's not difficult:
you just do it.

You just say, "It's illegal to give
kickback to doctors."

Illegal: declare it.

You have this opportunity:
please support these moves.

Please support these actions.

Not necessarily personally supporting
Prime Minister Erdoğan, OK?

But support these types of actions,

because the beneficiaries is the public.

Think about it: what kind of advantage,

what kind of profit Prime Minister
Erdoğan is gonna have

by pissing off the Big Pharmas?

No money is gonna come to him
from Big Pharma.

I can't think of a single benefit to
Prime Minister Erdoğan for doing this.

The only thing I see is the benefit
of the public.

The benefit to the public, for the public.

So please support these practices.
And please, for the rest of us,

if we have other bloggers,

and the independent journalists who are
watching this:

write about this.

We can send you the link to some of
the articles in English,

published in Turkey, about these laws
that are for the public's good.

And let's talk about the fact that it's
doable: we can do it.

If they're doing it there, why can't
we do it everywhere?

For horrifying practices like that.

And I'm gonna let you ask a question.

We started with one question,

and I've been talking non-stop for
about 40 minutes.

(laughter) Well, it's been a
tour-de-force there.

So just to recap for everyone:

he's pissed off the Big Pharma lobby
by stopping the kickbacks to doctors,

and all the various benefits and perks.

He's pissed off the financial institutions

by increasing and promoting
Islamic banking,

which is now taking off in Turkey,

with Islamic banks currently holding

something like $26 billion dollars
in assets,

and by 2017 estimated somewhere
between

$80 and $120 billion dollars in assets.

-- so it is exploding right now.

And thirdly, he's pissed off the
Zionists by speaking out

about the Israeli occupation of Gaza
and what's going on there right now.

Those are some pretty powerful
enemies, as you say.

And as you say, it's difficult to see what
benefit he is going to get out of this.

Certainly we can understand how
a regular Prime Minister,

just by maintaining the status quo,

wins all around.

He gets to keep all of his friends in
Big Pharma and the powerful lobbies

who will keep him in power.

The public doesn't know any different,

because they've never seen
anyone act really different,

so they don't really care.

He manage to maintain his power,

and certainly aggrandize himself
and his wealth while he does so.

So it's obvious why most politicans
go along with the status quo.

It's head-scratching... it's great,
but it's head-scratching

when a Prime Minister like
Erdoğan comes along

and actually goes against them,

especially after having been a
serviceable puppet in the past.

It's quite a turn-around that's going on.

The only thing that I can think
of in this regard

in terms of a benefit for it,

is that, is this a political play for him?

Does he believe that by doing
these things,

he's going to win the support
of the public, at least?

Or, more of the support of the public,

in order to continue his Prime
Minstership?

Is this an election gambit, or is
there something deeper going on?

Well, if you look at the practice,
let's say, with the Islamic Bank,

that has been in effect since 2002,

and he has remained popular.

So it's been going on for, now, 12 years.

The move against the Big Pharma

and these horrifying terrible
practices, kickbacks:

that was done in 2011.
That's three years ago.

And interestingly, one of his big
enemies who has had a fall-out with him,

that's imam mullah Fethullah Gülen,
who's sitting in Pennsylvania,

the CIA man we've been talking about:

his newspaper, main newspaper...

-- who has been attacking Erdoğan for the past year and a half non-stop --

Zaman:

if you see one of the articles I sent to
you was written by Zaman and promoted

and how great he was in 2011.
That was before the fall-out.

That was before he declared Erdoğan
his enemy.

Because CIA told Gülen, saying,
"We don't like what this guy is doing."

So these are not recent moves,

because we know that he's been
suffering with some of the scandals.

And I believe they were true:

I don't believe those tapes were
made-up tapes.

I believe the people who recorded
those corruption-related conversations,

those people were among those
sponsored by the big powers:

the CIA, the Big Pharma, the military-
industrial complex.

But I don't dispute that they were
authentic: it happened.

And nothing would whitewash that.

So, that aside: he hasn't been doing
any of this stuff recently,

since those scandals and these
Gezi Park protests:

all those things are only a
year-and-a-half, two years old.

These moves that we just taked about,

they have been going on for
years and years,

and the pharmaceutical was 2011.

So the answer is no.

But does he hope that the Turkish people

would think within their own conscience,

and say... first, let's look at
the alternatives there:

people who are gonna run against
him for these Presidential elections.

Let's look back in the history,
and then say:

"These things that he has done: "

"have they been for our good?
For our benefit?"

With no perceived advantage financially,
I would say even internationally:

because look at the number of enemies
he created. This is like...

this equals committing suicide.

In fact, some people that I talked with
who consider themselves knowledgeable

and knowing things from the inside

-- I don't know how knowledgeable
they are --

they said if he wins the
Presidential elections,

the next thing is going to be, they're
going to take him out.

They said, "There's gonna be an
assasination."

They're gonna assassinate Erdoğan,
especially if he becomes the President.

Because all the other things failed.

Leaking the tapes, all the newspaper
campaigns,

all the campaigns by the lobby,
the military-industrial complex:

everything to this point has failed, so
the only option that leaves those enemies

is taking him out by the assassination.

So if Turkish people were to think and say,

"Do we want to really isolate this guy
and say, 'Go, go hang by yourself!' ?"

Because if a nation does that

-- I don't care which nation it is:
Turkey, Afghanistan, US, wherever --

if people do that, I think those... then
I would say people, that kind of people,

deserve all the corruption and the
horrendous things that happen to them.

So if they are thinking -- and a lot of
people that I spoke with,

I would say 65, 70 percent of them,

especially those from
the workers' group...

-- these are the construction workers --

they are pro-Erdoğan.

And they were saying he's been good
to them.

Or his practices, or his administration.
has been good to them.

I'm not saying person Erdoğan.
They've been happy.

The majority of the people I talk who
are really strongly against Erdoğan,

Prime Minister Erdoğan, anti-Prime
Minister Erdoğan:

they were the wealthy people who like
grey-area businesses and operations.

And again, in Turkey, it's a very common
theme: you see that a lot.

People, they don't like to deal straight.

They like to go this way.

And they have money, and advantages
at stake with Erdoğan's policies.

And they happen to be rich, high society,
what they call elite.

Not intellectually elite:

a lot of them are just...
there's nothing upstairs there.

but the jewellery... I mean, out of touch
with what Turkey's about.

This is like, they are their own class.

You see them... in Turkey we call them
high society:

they just pose for paparazzi.

And nobody knows where their money
came from.

There's no business, really, no career,

but they're rich. Either through
inheritance,

through parents who've been corrupt:

you see those people speaking up.

And then you see some people
who are in the middle.

Who are obviously being influenced
by what they are reading.

because if you read all those
publications sponsored, written,

produced by the military-industrial
complex-related institutions,

or Fethullah Gülen's, CIA's Fethullah
Gülen, his publications in Turkey,

but everything we have in publication
in the US has been anti-Erdoğan,

to the state I have not, in the past
one-and-a-half years,

I haven't read a single article talking
about anything positive about the guy.

He's been the pure evil.

He's almost been placed in the same
category

as Bush's Axis of Evil.

North Korea, Iraq, Iran? I think now the
axis has four.

One of them has been Erdoğan for the
past one-and-a-half years.

Their influence, and they are great:
they're saying,

"He is going to make us Islamic."

And I want to give another quick
example of this.

One high-society rich ultrasecularist
family, husband and wife with kids,

they were telling me that they
are outraged

how he's gonna ban alcohol in Turkey,

because one of the first moves as
a warm-up to that that he's doing:

he put a legal age for alcohol, 18.

And now he's enforcing.

It was there, the law, but it was never
enforced by the law enforcement,

that if you go, even with your kid
as parents to a bar or restaurant,

and you as parents order your kid
beer or wine or whiskey,

they can override you as parents and
say, "We can't. She is not 18."

"You see that, Sibel? That's sharia law!"

I said, "Woo-hoo! We have had sharia
law in the US for a long time: "

"Plus, our starts at the age of 21."

Well, what they do is, they interpret this
kind of policy that is being enforced

as a sign of Prime Minister Erdoğan
bringing sharia law.

Well, do we have sharia law in the
United States? (laughs)

Because they said, "Well, how
about as parents?"

"I'm a very modern person, mother
or father, and I want to say,"

"'It's OK, I want my son to drink the
wine in this bar.'"

"They're saying no, I don't have
that right."

I said, "Well, in the United States,
our sharia law is 21."

"Not only that: they will call and
report you"

"to this fascist organization called
CPS: Child Protective Services."

"They will drive there,
they will arrest the parents,"

"they will take the kid away from them.
Put them in a foster home,"

"and then they have to go
and hire an attorney"

"and fight for years in court trying to
get their child back, for that practice. "

We haven't had that in Turkey.

You haven't had that.

So I think we have... if it is a sharia
law, it's a sharia practice,

then we have been practicing something
far beyond sharia in the United States.

But this is just a small example of this
[xx] panic,

because the mainstream media
circulates it:

"Sharia law, he's Islamist, he's gonna
take Turkey into the mullah,"

"Ayatollah Khomeini's era. He's gonna
make women cover up their heads,"

and all those things.

But when you ask them to
give you examples,

and they give you these examples,

you kind of shake your head and say,

this is more like a panic kind of a thing:

public panic artificially created
that you see,

but not any signs of sharia law.

In fact, one may argue that the laws
we have in place with the military coup,

and even with some under Ataturk,

to say it's illegal for Turkish woman
to wear hijab,

to schools or workplace:

look, in the United States, Muslim
women can go to universities and work

and wear their saris. They can wear
their veils and their scarves.

Turkey is 97 percent Muslim country,

so when the government enforces
a law that says

we make it illegal for you to wear it,
to have a choice to wear it,

well, I wonder what is really
fascistic here?

I mean, when you think of it
under those terms,

all he did was saying now they
are allowed:

if they want to wear it, they can
wear it.

What we had before was wrong,
for any nation: not only for Turkey.

People should dress the way they
want to dress.

He removed the dress code.

He did not put in place a dress code.

He says people should be free
to wear their hijabs

The governments before, the
militaries before,

they said it is illegal for that
Turkish woman to wear hijabs.

Well, that is a dress code.

And again, some people, because
of the propaganda,

they can't distinguish between the two.

One, it's removing the code,
not bringing the code in there.

And again, that goes back to
public education

and why it's important for
people to access alternative media

and engage in critical thinking.

Well, sadly, I think that we all
know how that works

with the propaganda media.

And we've seen that so many times.

It's like when the propaganda
media freaks out

about the homophobic tendencies
of the Russian government,

but somehow overlooks all of the
US allies that put homosexuals to death.

That's fine, but the alleged
Russian government abuses

are just over the top.

And so there's a lot going on here,

and I guess the question
ultimately becomes

that you talked about how there is a
positive and a negative side to the ledger

when you're looking at Erdoğan.

he's not an angel descended from heaven
to rule benevolently over everyone,

but he has made these positve steps,

and we do need to support those
positive steps

as an example... if nothing else,
an example for the rest of the world,

of what is possible in standing up
to the bankers

and the pharmaceutical companies,
and the Zionists, et cetera.

But that does raise the question:
how do we support those positive policies?

And not suppor the negative ones?

Do you believe that the Turkish
people should re-elect Erdoğan

and then continue protesting him?
Or how does that work?

Oh, God. That is the... really,
that's a tough question.

Because you know how I feel
about voting and the system.

I don't vote. I'm like, I don't...

I don't engage in the game they
set up for me here in the United States.

And I'm not going to cast any vote,

because even though I have
my citizenship, still, in Turkey,

I have my Turkish passport,

I'm not going to vote.

I can vote, but I'm not.

So I don't want to come across as somone

who's advocating...

if I were living in Turkey, and if
voting was compulsory

like it is in Australia: you have to vote,
otherwise you're going to go to jail

I consider that horrifying,

and Australians, when I was there
last year, they were arguing with me,

saying, Americans would participate
in their politics, you Americans,

far more if they made it compulsory
like our nation.

And I'm like [xx].

Anyhow: if it were compulsory, if I
were living in Turkey,

if I had to vote: if they put a gun,
they say, "You have to vote."

"You have to pick somebody"

I would put down his name.

First of all, there is no one out there
that even comes close to viable.

That's for voting. So if people say
what is your advice,

I would say, that would be...
under those circumstances .

However, I haven't researched.

I'm sure... I mean, I'm assuming,
but I'm pretty sure in my assumption,

that this is not only Erdoğan.

There are other people within Prime
Minister Erdoğan's administration,

obviously, who have been good.

One person single-handedly can't come

and say, "I'm gonna put this law
and enforce."

You have to have enforcers.

You have to push the Turkish Parliament
on this, et cetera.

Meaning, there are some good people
there...

-- I don't know who they are --

within Prime Minister Erdoğan's
administration. Let's find out.

And for me, too: I want to find out who
these people are behind the scenes.

Maybe they are not so much behind
the scenes;

maybe I did not have enough time
with my Turkish sources.

But maybe they are, some of them,
they are public faces.

Let's look at those people, too.

Wouldn't it be great to have those
goods in one person,

without some of those corruption
scandals, et cetera?

Well, of course: absolutely.

Let's find out about those, too.

But he goes, that means his
administration will go,

meaning some of these good people

-- which are so rare, because
I've never come across

really good people in the politics:
really I haven't --

those are gonna go. And we have
lost this tremendous opportunity.

I believe Turkey being successful in
implementing these incredible, brave laws

-- pharmaceutical, et cetera, with the
banking --

eventually, it has a way of spreading
around.

Because you're gonna... looking at
some other nations,

maybe, first, neighboring countries,

who say, "Why can't we have people
who can do things like that here?"

And then people in the "first-world"
countries will say,

"We really are in bad shape! I mean,
if it's being done in these nations,"

"why in the world... supposedly we
have these great democracies;"

"we are the great, democratized
Western world: "

"why aren't we searching to have
people within our political system"

"who actually work for the people?"

I mean, Obama works for the
insurance companies,

and the pharma, and the
military-industrial complex.

The guy before him, the guy before him:
they would never dare,

even for political gesture, they
would say,

"We need to, little bit, tweak here
and there. some of those laws,"

"and maybe put some amendments
to those laws"

"that make it maybe a little bit... give
the illusion of... blah-blah -- "

With cutting the... cut kickbacks:
maybe we make it...

They never... they always talk like that.

Why don't you say, say "It's illegal?"

"It has to be outlawed! "

Very simple: and then do it.

So that gives us hope here in the US,
people in the UK,

all over the Western world: we have
been the victims of the Big Pharmas

that has had the strings to their puppets,

who happen to be our leaders.

So this may say that it's possible.

At least, it raises the possibility that
once in a while,

there pops up a person -- a man or
a woman -- who has the guts to do this.

Even at the risk of being assassinated.

Do you think he doesn't know,
Prime Minister Erdoğan,

that he's on the list to be assassinated,
most likely? Of course!

People say... In the United States, they
say, "There are a lot of good things..."

especially during the first couple of
years of Obama,

"There are a lot of good things that
he wants to do,"

"but he knows, just like Kennedy, he
will be assassinated by the CIA."

"This is why he's not doing what he
really wants to do."

Well, true or not true

-- I'm not gonna say they're all
wrong about this --

he is what he is, he's doing what
he's been doing.

Meaning this whole notion of
public servant,

"You are there to serve the people's
interests,"

is not there.

If it's your life interest, remaining
alive, becoming rich,

have billion-dollars book deals et cetera,

then you are not there as a
public servant.

In this case, in Turkey, we are a
little bit -- actually, greatly --

seeing the notion of public servants.

He's doing it for the benefit
of the people.

And I don't know: I used to,
when I was nine, ten years old,

I used to read Zapata.

We believed in these people who would
come with their sword

and say, "I'm gonna do something
for the people."

Well, here's Erdoğan there with his sword,

and he hasn't been backing off.
He's been going, so let's support him.

And let's support the awareness,

and help the awareness in the
other countries, including the US,

of people perceiving something
totally different happening in Turkey.

And then, let's say, "How can we
do things like that?"

Turkey is doing it: I think we should be
doing the same, similar kinds of things.

And practice these kinds of nice stuff
for a change.

There you go. And as you say,

it's not rocket science here. I mean,
it's quite simple: just make it illegal.

And it can be done; and it has been
done in Turkey.

Again, very interesting developments.

I guess just finally, again, for people
who don't really know about the system,

so the first round of the voting will be
on the 10th of August,

and if there is no simple majority,

there will be a second round of voting
on August 24th.

What is the sense on the ground right now?

Is Erdoğan ahead in the polls,
or do we know?

If he stays alive, and if there is
no major rigging or anything,

the statistics shows that he has it.

I mean, it's like, slam-dunk situation.

And of course it won't hurt for
more people, of course,

who thought maybe they wouldn't vote,
et cetera,

to maybe say, "I will go and support."

So that is given, as far as everything...
even in the Western media.

even those anti-Erdoğan, they're
saying it's a slam-dunk.

It's going to happen.

Because people are happy.

For anybody who keeps using democracy

and wanting to export democracy
as an excuse,

US should be the first one to applaud
and say,

"Whoo! Finally we have democracy
on the ground."

It's just that they don't like the
democracy when it's not their puppet.

It's like there's a condition
called democracy,

they keep asking for it, the
United States.

This is democracy. The worker
class, people in the villages,

maybe not in the fancy areas in Istanbul,

they want this man. They want the
Prime Minister. They've been happy.

Really, they've been happy. I mean,
there are people,

they are saying, this never has
happened in Turkey.

This is the first time we are
seeing this happening.

I mean, I heard a taxi driver, said,

"You know what? I don't care:
steal $10, $20 million dollars;"

"do some good for public."

"We had all these leaders who stole
hundreds of millions dollars,"

"didn't do a single good for public."

Very simple way of thinking, not a
very correct way of thinking,

but you have the workers class who
are not elite and highly educated,

they are just telling you, in plain,
simple language,

"I like it. I've never had it in my
country. I want to keep it while I can."

So, they want him.

The question is, what's going to happen
afterwards,

once he becomes the President?

They are trying to...

shifting certain things around
to give more power to the Presidents.

Because in Turkey, Presidents
have been mainly symbolic figures.

It's the Prime Minister.

So, we can change the Constitution.

Let's turn it this way, now let's say
it goes this way and not that way.

There's a talk that that may happen.

And as I said: it's the practices

and the people with Erdoğan
within the administration

who have made these good
things happen.

So I guess there should be
encouragement and push,

at least by the public: applaud
loud enough,

hopefully some people will hear,
even outside Turkey,

to say, "Let's continue these policies.
Let's not back off."

I don't know how they're gonna
pressure him.

I just... if they haven't been able to,

if they haven't succeeded

-- meaning the US, the CIA,
the military-industrial complex --

to have him stop doing these things
and to back off up to this point,

I don't know how they're gonna
succeed afterwards.

So... and also it shows with
Prime Minister Erdoğan:

he has been vindicated.

He's able to look at these people who've
been trying to knock him down and say,

"Guess what? Despite all the hundreds of
millions of dollars, billions of dollars,"

"all your propaganda media: look,
I'm still standing!"

"Because the public, their vote of
confidence is with me."

That is... again, that is incredible.
I've never seen anything like this.

I just keep thinking... I'm asking people,
I haven't seen anything like this.

And I hope it will show that
it can be done,

and I hope we won't end up with
something dramatic and awful happening.

But people have won, so far .

At least let me put it this way:

some people, they say the notion of
having majority rule is a horrible thing.

Because what about the minority?

The majority of people in Turkey,
they are happy.

They like him. They want him.

They are supporting him.

And that's the fact.

And personally, as someone outside Turkey,

I'm looking, and I say, "Kudos."

I mean, I don't know what to say.

If my father were alive today, he would
be applauding these practices.

Maybe he wouldn't have applauded him
as a person.

He would have applauded these practices.

And let's applaud these practices.

All right. Well, as early as next week,

we might be referring to
President-Elect Erdoğan,

and maybe a couple of weeks
from now,

the assassinated President-Elect
Erdoğan.

No? Well, we'll see, again, how this
turns out.

Again, very interesting. I hope
people are keeping an eye on it,

even with all of the other things
happening in the world right now.

So of course we will continue to
cover this

as the developments continue to occur.

So, Sibel Edmonds, BoilingFrogsPost.com:

thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you James.

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