Asie 02/02/2015

I started with this in The Forge channel:

<LexManos> TLDR: asie and crew wanted to force J8 in 1.7, I said no and explained why, They ASMed FML to do it, I got pissed, Said shit I shouldn't, things exploded.
<Chimaine> Prophet, there's no spy here. logs for this channel are publicly available
<flappyy> ^
<LexManos> mm those who are banned probably are scraping them
<Chimaine> ofc
<flappyy> have been for a loong time
<LexManos> Nothing I can do.
<LexManos> For those who are listening Let me make this clear!
<Chimaine> if you were banned from a channel, you would want to know what's going on in there too ;)
<flappyy> Chimaine: depends
<LexManos> Coremods: I fucking hate them, but they are a nessasary evil. Forge will NEVER nativly support sush things as the Rift. As such Coremods to add cool new features are great. However I hate how they are used by some people in the community to screw things up. So, do i wish I could moderate them so that only those who have a good reason to do them use them? Yes. Can I, or will I ever do anything that prevents people from making
<LexManos> Coremods? No Will I take steps to protect FML from coremodding? Possibly, I have not decided yet, but if I do it will ONLY be FML/Forge as there are proper channels to go through if you want changes made to them.
<LexManos> BuildCraft: Its a good mod, I was, and still am friends with most of the original members and deal with them on a daily bases. I have a personal issue with Asie because he loves to poke drama out of me. Sadly this last instance I dropped BC's name when I mean Asie/Nova specifically.


Asie proceeded to PM me and this is the full conversation:

<asie> apology accepted. doesn't matter that you still hate me - i was never mad about that. i decided to just pack my stuff and leave the community altogether, permamently, if that changes anything.
<asie> is there anything you would like me to clear up before i take leave into the aether?
<LexManos> There is nothing you can clear up, the drama is done, and people are running with it. However, if you have any control over NovaAPI or its people. Directing them in the correct way to go forward is probably the best idea. There isn't much I can do about people hopping on the 'Fuck Lex/Forge' bandwagon. But that always exists.
<asie> Okay, let me clear a few things up.
<asie> Nova API was never meant to replace Forge.
<asie> It was supposed to be an abstraction layer to make modding easier for us and newbies
<LexManos> Never imagined it to, I figured it was a Bukkit/Sponge competitor.
<asie> Not really.
<asie> Sponge has a far smaller scope.
<asie> We plan to abstract things on a higher level as to support other Minecraft clones in the future.
<LexManos> Let me make this clear, as people don't seem to understand my stance on this.
<asie> Anyway... The coremod was supposed to stay private and the only reason it got linked to FML was calclavia's fatal mistake. We did not plan to release it without contacting you first.
<asie> We did it so we could develop without bothering you
<asie> and wanted to keep it quiet until it was time to release.
<asie> The commit name was unfortunate, I do agree
<asie> The reason we did it on 1.7.10 is familiarity with that version, mostly - we wanted to ensure NOVA works before moving to 1.8 which we still did not fully understand
<LexManos> Forge is NOT a abstraction layer, it {might} get some things twards that extent in the future but nothing close to a full blown system. As that is not Forge's mandate. So Full blown abstraction projects are GOOD and a complement to Forge. NOT a competitor/threat.
<asie> I am aware.
<asie> I do agree that this conflict was unfortunate
<asie> And I am really happy with that you apologized for the violent outbreak, it was the only thing I was annoyed about
<asie> I am okay with you banning NOVA team members from #mcforge or even your personal dislike with me
<asie> as I clarified in my blog post a few hours after the thing
<asie> I am aware also of my past as a drama queen and attention whore in early-mid 2014
<asie> I worked hard to change it over the months, but I do agree I still do some things wrong
<asie> And I decided the best solution is to just pack up and leave.
<asie> My reputation is basically gone at this point, except amongst that "vocal minority" who would rather see you gone. And that's unfortunate.
<asie> I respect you and value your input
<asie> you have corrected me on quite a few wrongs in the past
<LexManos> People expect to much from Me/Other heads of projects. We are human. Personally i've struggled my entire life with anger and at times, especially when provoked, it overflows. Sadly there is nothing I can do after the fact.
<asie> You can. That apology means a lot
<asie> and I am doing all I can to make sure everyone hears it
<asie> You struggled with anger, I struggled with annoying others
<asie> and still do
<LexManos> As for the banning of Nova members. IF they wish to talk about there Minecraft related abstraction. Then they can come in, however, there are some fundamental things about Minecraft that just needs to be accepted.
<asie> I don't think we really need to, to be honest. We can figure things out as we go.
<asie> Generally, the question is: since Forge on Minecraft 1.7.10 is no longer supported anymore, what direction should we take our 1.7.10 release in?
<asie> And is there anything we can do to ensure that you can easily reject NOVA-containing logs?
<LexManos> I'll apply the same rule I apply to everyone else. If they start drama I ban. Its not a personal thing. It's simply I dont like drama in my rooms. And by no means am I kicking them out of the community or anyhting. I don't have that power and I wouldn't use it if I did. When I ban someone it's simply removing them from me.
<LexManos> Sadly there is no 'easily reject ___ logs' as you know far well getting users to post logs is a pain.
<LexManos> If I had a system that forced them to that would be awesome.
<asie> What I see many projects do is just reject any kind of support via non-official means, that is, a bug tracker
<asie> That's what I did for BuildCraft, generally. All issues have to go through the GitHub issue tracker or I will simply forget about them
<asie> And if someone doesn't post logs, I tell them to and mark the issue as waiting for input
<LexManos> As for what Nova should do about 1.7.10, I would suggest you simply port to 1.8. This is a fundemental thing that I have to say. To say 'you should stay on 1.7' would be detramental to trying to get the community to move forward. So sadly, I have to take a hard stance on it.
<asie> I'm not staying on 1.7.10
<asie> Remember that NOVA works in such a way that it has multiple wrappers for one API
<asie> We can just make a 1.7.10 version and keep it there while we work on 1.8 too
<asie> What we wanted to do is do both
<LexManos> If you can manage both, but vocally maintain that 1.8 is the active target then i'd say go for that.
<asie> That sounds good, yes
<LexManos> As I explained before, 1.7 has fallen into the 'Bug fixes only' stage. So any MAJOR bugs can be fixed. But no new features. Sounds mean but its just how dev works.
<asie> It's very much fine
<asie> Any other requests you have for us?
<LexManos> Just don't ASM FML/Forge.
<asie> Should we instead contact you if we have any issues?
<asie> There might be some hooks we need in the future
<LexManos> And if you find another game that people are hopping onto, let me know. I'm always looking for something new to crack into.
<LexManos> Submit hook requests the normal way, through Github, the better explained/sample mods the better.
<asie> That is, via me. I have learned a lot over the year or so and I think, despite our often disagreements, I think we can talk on a civil manner
<asie> I cannot vouch for that for the other team members
<LexManos> But remember as stated, 1.7 is bugfixes only, 1.8 is new hooks/features.
<asie> I know
<asie> anyway, the tweets I made about the situation clearing up are gaining traction
<asie> I also informed the FTB forums
<asie> the situation should hopefully calm down in a few hours.
<LexManos> As for the other team members, If they poke me, I will probably get pissed. Its simply how I work and there are few in the community that I give any slack to. Having to deal with as much as I do it's ... hard... I don't have the patience for it.
<asie> If you want to vent, feel free to contact me. I know how it feels like to need to vent to someone and I had to vent a lot for the past 2 days
<LexManos> However, if they file a github issue which is fully articulated and non-agressive/harassing then it'll be assesed as all issues are.
<asie> One final question. Is there a chance that I be unbanned from #minecraftforge, under the rule that I don't bring any drama?
<asie> (Which shouldn't be hard, as I pretty much quit Minecraft at this point)
<LexManos> maybe.
<LexManos> I do unbans on a monthly bases
<asie> It just hurt me that a few people are spreading complete lies about me
<asie> such as my involvement in the "Sponge schism"
<LexManos> If i've forgotten you by next month then the ban comes off.
<LexManos> I don't kno what did or did not happen in Sponge. I'm not touching that with a 10' pole
<asie> Good.
<asie> Thanks for the talk.
<asie> I'm glad we can live in peace once more.
<LexManos> As a note, for full disclosure of everyhting that happens in this situation.
<LexManos> Are you adverse to me posting this conversation in full.
<asie> I am perfectly okay with that and actually wanted to ask you about the same
<LexManos> Alright.
<asie> Simply to clear things up.
<asie> People have said many lies about you and me both in this situation
<asie> (However, if you post it on Twitter, beware that I cannot currently retweet you)
<LexManos> People always lie, its fucking annoying.
<asie> (You blocked me ~3 months ago for reasons I understand, just like I understood your dislike of me over time)
<LexManos> I know, i've blocked you, and quite a few people on twitter. Twitter is annoying, as I use it to contact important people, and it goes to my phone. So I'm very liberal with who I block because I don't like people buzzing my phone with drama.
<asie> Okay, then I'll just repost.
<LexManos> Anyways anything further needed to discuss?
<asie> Not right now. If there's any issue NOVA has, or anything I need to talk about
<asie> I'll contact you... somehow.
<asie> Not sure how.
<asie> Probably GitHub for any formal requests
<LexManos> Formal requests through github for MC 1.8+ is the way to go.
<LexManos> It has the added benifit of keeping things in a list, unlike IRC where things dissapear into the logs.
<LexManos> Anyways gunna consider this closed, this will be the last line of my pastebin. I will send one more message with the link to my pastebin after this.