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other Highlights from 3rd November 2012

a guest Aug 13th, 2015 12 Never
  1. (06:42:25) Anikitan: are we only issuing temp bans for ban evasion now?
  2. (06:42:34) Anikitan: and by we i mean you
  3. [...]
  4. (06:42:39) Anikitan: and by you i mean mods
  5. [...]
  6. (06:44:52) VCR_Working: yes
  7. (06:45:08) VCR_Working: they completely removed all permas
  8. (06:45:11) VCR_Working: from us
  9. (06:45:11) Anikitan: really?
  10. (06:45:16) Anikitan: how come?
  11. (06:45:23) VCR_Working: they never said
  12. (06:45:29) Anikitan: weird
  13. (06:45:29) VCR_Working: likely overuse
  14. (06:45:45) VCR_Working: the only permas left
  15. (06:45:49) VCR_Working: are for cp
  16. (06:46:04) Anikitan: that doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever
  17.  
  18. (06:51:03) Anikitan: oh hey
  19. (06:51:11) Anikitan: you can still request for ban evasion [perm]
  20. (06:51:19) Anikitan: in the report queue
  21. (06:51:27) Anikitan: just not from the inline extension
  22. (06:51:51) Azatsu: but moot did say he didn't want us to do that
  23. [...]
  24. (06:55:12) Anikitan: then how are you supposed to issue a temp ban for ban evasion from the report queue? its not even in the dropdown list
  25. (06:55:21) VCR_Working: new.php
  26. (06:55:24) Anikitan: oh
  27. (06:57:07) Anikitan: the request ban button doesn't even work for me on new.php
  28. (06:57:09) Anikitan: ;_;
  29. (06:59:04) Azatsu: inline
  30. (06:59:05) Azatsu: extension
  31. (06:59:32) Anikitan: >mfw i have to open 800 post threads on a 512k connection to ban request one post
  32. (07:06:30) Azatsu: that's how life is
  33. (07:06:32) Azatsu: ):
  34.  
  35. (08:16:09) +duanemoody: uh, where's the option for "/b/ content outside of /b/" in ban requests
  36. (08:16:29) +duanemoody: kdel, magz, menchii, zorpheus
  37. (08:19:11) +duanemoody: seriously, now I'm not supposed to BR for porn despite it being an option, and I *can't* BR for furry or guro
  38. (08:19:32) +duanemoody: did i wake up and take crazy pills by mistake
  39. (08:21:56) +duanemoody: mvb, alternative, zanok is there a policy change i should have read about somewhere
  40. (08:29:56) Azatsu: a
  41. (08:29:58) Azatsu: moot removed
  42. (08:29:59) Azatsu: it
  43. (08:30:17) +duanemoody: and did lord moot explain what we were supposed to do
  44. (08:30:19) Azatsu: and he said that you're supposed to delete guro, loli and furry
  45. (08:30:21) Azatsu: not ban
  46. (08:30:35) +duanemoody: so what exactly is bannable besides CP
  47. (08:30:53) +duanemoody: because at this rate advertising and off-topic aren't going to last much longer
  48. (08:32:14) Azatsu: <+AoC> while you're changing the BR system, please add up the global 3 rules broken up in several reasons. We still need to be able to cover furry, loli, racism, guro. Let's say that trolling, flames, uncalled for catchphrases, macros and indecipherable replies are not enough to call for bans given how 4chan has evolved over the years.
  49. (08:32:14) Azatsu: <~moots> i would prefer most of those things be deleted and not banned for
  50. (08:32:46) +duanemoody: good, now the people whose content is deleted can just repost it
  51. (08:33:26) +duanemoody: and all i really need is to send BRs for reposting
  52. (08:33:34) +duanemoody: this is so much more intelligent
  53. (08:34:37) Azatsu: the issue was that
  54. (08:34:42) Azatsu: rule 3 was being overused
  55. (08:34:50) Azatsu: and it flooded mod's ban request's queue
  56. (08:34:55) +duanemoody: boo fucking hoo
  57. (08:35:08) +duanemoody: i'm sorry the mods had to do their job
  58. (08:35:30) +duanemoody: we streamlined it already and they're still bitching
  59. (08:35:45) +duanemoody: maybe they'd like to janitor the boards themselves
  60. (08:36:31) +duanemoody: every time i get on this computer the first thing i do is go to the reports
  61. (08:36:46) +duanemoody: i do not send BRs for everything that's reported
  62. (08:36:56) Azatsu: also for some reason all of the requests for permabans were removed
  63. (08:37:17) +duanemoody: and i have practically never asked for those
  64. (08:37:25) Azatsu: I'm just telling you
  65. (08:37:32) Azatsu: I almost never asked for those too
  66. (08:37:34) Azatsu: only for ban evasion
  67. (08:37:47) +duanemoody: and i'm telling moot that if he wants to make my job shittier he can do it himself
  68. (08:38:42) +duanemoody: we had reasons removed, we had options removed, i got told anime was /co/ and the other janitor is a shitposter
  69. (08:39:20) +duanemoody: he gave me this position because i bitched about sexism and now i don't even have a category for controlling that
  70. (08:39:45) +duanemoody: people do not take deletion seriously
  71. (08:41:01) +duanemoody: if he wants to remove bans from everything that isn't CP he should just say so
  72. (08:41:17) +duanemoody: i'll quit, but at least he'll be honest about it
  73. (08:42:06) +duanemoody: and for the record, IRC is a retarded place to post policy changes
  74. (08:42:20) +duanemoody: he runs a forum, we have an internal board
  75.  
  76. (08:46:53) +duanemoody: ok, it's not constructive to argue this point
  77. (08:46:58) +duanemoody: for me to argue it
  78. (08:47:25) +duanemoody: i'm still irritated that our options are reduced but our responsibilities are not
  79.  
  80. (08:55:25) +duanemoody: the solution to bad moderation tools is NOT GO INTO IRC
  81. (08:55:36) +duanemoody: the solution is FIX THE TOOLS
  82. (08:56:02) +duanemoody: IRC should be a last resort
  83. (08:56:19) +duanemoody: because i guarantee the shit i will have to deal with will require it chronically
  84. (08:56:49) +WalterWhite: What tool is broken? Sure, that one ban request got removed. moot is probably saying that you don't need to keep ban requesting people for petty words. The only tool that is broken in my opinion is the "new.php" but even that is replaced by vanilla reports page and I've really grown to like vanilla reports.
  85. (08:57:20) +duanemoody: i'm not ban requesting for petty words, i'm looking at guro and furry
  86.  
  87. (08:58:39) +RapeApe9k: and then, without bans and mutes, they just repost their shit saying U MAD JANITOR??
  88. (08:58:45) +WalterWhite: Yes, I know this.
  89. (08:58:45) +duanemoody: if the management is not aggressive about that, my job turns to shit and i quit
  90. (08:58:55) +WalterWhite: You are taking this too seriously man.
  91. (08:59:00) +WalterWhite: Have you not read /j/?
  92. (08:59:08) +RapeApe9k: we are doing this job because we care
  93. (08:59:14) +WalterWhite: And so am I.
  94. (08:59:24) +duanemoody: we are doing this job because /co/ is now in danger of becoming hate central
  95. (08:59:47) +duanemoody: and i was a regular for years before it started doing this
  96. (09:00:03) +WalterWhite: I'm pretty sure we all were.
  97. (09:00:20) +duanemoody: i have trolls who are dedicated to turning board members against each other
  98. (09:00:41) +duanemoody: if you want to see /co/ turn into /v/ just say the word
  99. (09:00:41) +WalterWhite: Maybe not /co/ but 4chan in general. However, you cannot take this to the extreme of "my job is shit and I quit".
  100. (09:01:01) +duanemoody: deletion is a shit tool without anything else to back it up
  101. (09:01:08) +duanemoody: do not even try to debate this
  102. (09:01:11) +WalterWhite: It's not.
  103. (09:01:21) +duanemoody: deletion of a single post? fine
  104. (09:01:57) +duanemoody: when a mod's queue is full of repost BRs will we get another "we removed that because there were too many of them"?
  105. (09:02:19) +WalterWhite: Who knows? It's not our concern.
  106. (09:02:23) +duanemoody: the fuck it isn't
  107. (09:02:27) +WalterWhite: It's not.
  108. (09:03:12) +duanemoody: i'll go cool off
  109.  
  110. (12:10:52) +AoC: I really wish moot knew how to lead. He wants to have the last word on 4chan policies but he doesn't know how to communicate properly
  111. (12:13:34) %dongfix: well
  112. (12:13:49) %dongfix: he's done a good job for 9 years
  113. [...]
  114. (12:14:54) +AoC: I would say adequate job at best.
  115.  
  116. (12:18:48) +RapeApe9k: So my understanding of this situation is: Too many BRs = mods overwhelmed. Current solution: Reduce ability to file BRs.
  117. (12:19:11) +RapeApe9k: This doesn't really address the underlying problem.
  118. (12:19:24) %dongfix: reduce ability? what
  119. (12:19:52) +RapeApe9k: we can't ban request for loli, guro, trolling, racism, flaming, etc
  120. (12:19:59) +AoC: we're still upset over losing BR for global 3 dong. At least we got the ban evasion BR back
  121. (12:20:01) +RapeApe9k: no global #3 other than dubs
  122. (12:20:09) %dongfix: l o l
  123. (12:20:16) %dongfix: i will have to ask moot about that
  124. (12:20:21) +RapeApe9k: good luck
  125. (12:20:37) +RapeApe9k: I still don't think that's the core problem.
  126. (12:21:02) +RapeApe9k: What the heart of the matter is, is that it's nigh impossible to properly vet candidates for janitor/mod in an anonymous environment.
  127. (12:21:07) +AoC: the issue is the lack of communication between Outer/Inner Party
  128. (12:21:16) +RapeApe9k: Other than just watching them for months or years, and judging based on performance.
  129. (12:21:28) +AoC: when kami asks us to please cut down on a request that is not being helpful, we do
  130. (12:21:28) %dongfix: isn't that what happens anyway
  131. (12:22:27) +RapeApe9k: With this long vetting process it's going to be very difficult to scale the number of mods.
  132.  
  133. (12:26:49) +AoC: Yes, the moderation system can't scale up with the increased poster numbers because it relies on a single bottleneck that is "moot's sense of trustworthiness"
  134. (12:27:20) +AoC: which is good in the sense that it keeps harmful power hungry people away from a position where they can be a danger to the boards
  135. (12:27:41) +AoC: but it's far too slow and inconsistent
  136.  
  137. (12:52:55) VCR_Working: was that whole dev banned thing resolved
  138. (12:53:21) +AoC: not that I know of. Dave just bowed out since it was out of his depth
  139. (12:53:31) VCR_Working: hue
  140. (12:53:54) VCR_Working: still wondering who's doing that was...
  141. (12:54:11) +AoC: let's do what the rest of 4chan already does
  142. (12:54:17) +AoC: Blame invisibro
  143.  
  144. (18:03:24) +AoC: man, at least we get moot posting here now
  145. (18:03:31) +AoC: 2010 was hell
  146. (18:03:47) +duanemoody: you mean when he still believed canv.as was going to amount to anything
  147. (18:03:48) +AoC: which by the way is my general suggestion:
  148. (18:04:20) +AoC: if things ever gets beyond tolerance levels, just go for a sabattical rather than quiting because moot doesn't care if you stay or go
  149.  
  150. (18:13:20) +duanemoody: reddit can be bigger retards than us with no effort
  151. (18:13:37) +duanemoody: tumblr is full of offensive people and the offended
  152. (18:13:44) +duanemoody: facebook has white trash all over it
  153. (18:14:11) +duanemoody: we're better off competing on content
  154. (18:14:15) +duanemoody: not assholery
  155. (18:14:39) +duanemoody: and don't even get me started with SA and fark
  156. (18:14:46) +RapeApe9k: >SA
  157. (18:14:56) +RapeApe9k: that place is just sad
  158. (18:15:03) +RapeApe9k: it's like a palative care ward
  159. (18:15:12) +duanemoody: it's the ghost of christmas future
  160. (18:15:14) +RapeApe9k: terminally ill but just won't fucking die
  161. (18:15:19) +duanemoody: look carefully at it
  162. (18:15:38) +RapeApe9k: 4chan's post rate keeps increasing, SA's keeps falling
  163. (18:15:48) +duanemoody: don't measure success by post rate
  164. (18:16:20) +duanemoody: i know a comic book company that every 18 months does something outrageous that spikes sales for roughly 11 months and then has to do it again after losing readers
  165. (18:16:55) +duanemoody: if i learned anything in economics it was the fallacy that a short term improvement is a long term trend
  166. (18:17:26) +duanemoody: of course that's not to say that lowtax isn't fucking himself in the ass
  167. (18:17:57) +duanemoody: i'll shut up now
  168.  
  169. (18:22:40) +AoC: Well, let's see if we get lucky tonight and get a moot sighting
  170. (18:23:10) +Azatsu: Maybe we're not supposed to know
  171. (18:23:21) VCR_Working: why
  172. (18:23:28) +AoC: And I stand by what I've said earlier, the man has never been a good leader and an adequate admin at best
  173.  
  174. (18:23:55) +AoC: keeping things in the dark is not the best way to handle policy, specially when you hide it from the people volunteering for you
  175. (18:24:16) VCR_Working: with a bunch of rule changes due to certain issues, and only speculation as to why
  176. (18:25:33) %kami`: ?
  177. (18:26:12) VCR_Working: oh don't mind us, just venting about changes
  178. (18:26:20) VCR_Working: there's not much we can do about it either way
  179.  
  180. (18:53:55) %kami`: what I'm trying to say is that
  181. (18:54:06) %kami`: just because mods are supposedly 'inner party'
  182. (18:54:17) %kami`: doesn't mean that we have much say in what happens
  183. (18:54:37) %kami`: especially after what I told you some weeks ago
  184.  
  185. (22:03:17) %dongfix: board culture is not a thing
  186. (22:05:39) +AoC: bullshit
  187.  
  188. (22:07:05) %dongfix: it is a method for old users to exclude new users from forming their own ideas
  189. (22:07:26) +Azatsu: I wouldn't say it's always like that
  190. (22:08:00) +Azatsu: if you follow the pure definition of culture, OC threads are a plethora of board culture
  191. (22:08:07) %dongfix: what
  192. (22:08:24) +Azatsu: well, you know
  193. (22:08:46) +fsdfdsf: If new users sitck around for more than a week they'll learn the board culture.
  194. (22:08:48) +Azatsu: cul·ture/ˈkəlCHər/
  195. (22:08:48) +Azatsu: Noun:      
  196. (22:08:48) +Azatsu: The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
  197. (22:10:00) +AoC: greentext blogging flies in some boards, it's shot down in /jp/. People inside a board build upon shared experiences from eventful threads or going fads. There's a clear difference between a poster from /a/ and /v/, mostly on what they consider as acceptable
  198. (22:10:14) %dongfix: sure
  199. (22:10:23) +AoC: it's foolish to think all of 4chan is uniform and seeks each board for its topic rather than the userbase itself
  200. (22:10:29) %dongfix: but when you're demonised for doing something that they don't consider "board culture" it needs to be eradicated
  201. (22:10:33) +AoC: which is why /sp/ is such an interesting enclave
  202. (22:10:50) +Azatsu: Ah
  203. (22:10:57) +Azatsu: That kind of board culture
  204. (22:10:59) +Azatsu: doesn't exist
  205. (22:11:02) +AoC: that's elitism, which is a different story
  206. (22:11:06) +Azatsu: I was more looking at stuff like OC
  207. (22:11:11) %dongfix: they are basically the same thing
  208. (22:11:17) %dongfix: on topic content is not board culture
  209. (22:11:20) %dongfix: it's on topic content
  210. (22:11:22) +AoC: "we don't climb the ladder, you dumb fucking new monkey" and all that
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