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  1. [7:35 PM] l.m: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&p=229856&sid=6eced39b813e31d09bb643586bd630f5#p229497
  2. [7:35 PM] l.m: This. Hurts.(edited)
  3. [7:35 PM] l.m: A lot
  4. [8:07 PM] Doram: It was all in good fun, and as miffed as I felt about losing as a Runouwian, Raz bowed out, stayed in character, and was perfectly civil afterwards.
  5. [8:07 PM] Doram: That quote from the timeline says that we all felt it was the best April Fools ever.
  6. [8:08 PM] Raiyuuni: pretty much
  7. [8:08 PM] Doram: Raz is not a bad guy, and I have been defending him this entire time.
  8. [8:09 PM] Doram: That was a JOKE, and many people took it WAY too seriously, obviously.
  9. [8:23 PM] Doram: Also, I don't remember if I said it or not, but remember when I said that XNR3 wanted to come back, and we said sure? WEll, I did get another email from him revealing that the new account he made was Forgotten.
  10. [8:33 PM] Raiyuuni: what a twist
  11. [8:45 PM] l.m: Lmfao
  12. [8:46 PM] l.m: So he indeed was forgotten
  13. [8:46 PM] l.m: As in left in the past
  14. [8:46 PM] l.m: People change
  15. [8:46 PM] l.m: ... I wonder if it's also true for You Know Who
  16. [8:48 PM] Venexis: wait who was XNR3 lol. XNR3 was the acronym of the names of the three main guys, or something
  17. [9:07 PM] Doram: no, I got an email at runouwadmin from him, and we discussed it, and after I had said that we had agreed that it was ok that he come back, he said that he had already just recently registered under a different username, and I said it was OK at the time, and just asked for the username. I was pretty sure I brought it up at the time, and everybody was fine with it, but I mentioned it again, since someone mentioned XNR3's rampagae, and he was on and made embarassedc noises, at which point, I said that it was already forgiven, and it was fine, just a distant memory that we are not holding against him.
  18. [9:07 PM] Doram: I have stuff to do , I will be back later.
  19. [11:06 PM] Raz: as a normal user i feel like i am being harassed and to add, actually hurt for once in this entire debacle and as staff i feel, as my higher ups and people i can trust with problems i might have, like it is your job to do something about it(edited)
  20. [11:06 PM] Raz: good luck staff
  21. [11:14 PM] l.m: So. Uh. You guys up for permaban?
  22. July 23, 2016
  23. [1:23 AM] Raz: (http://shrinktheweb.snapito.io/v2/webshot/spu-ea68c8-ogi2-3cwn3bmfojjlb56e?size=800x0&screen=1024x768&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supermariobrosx.org%2Fforums%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D75%26p%3D229856%26sid%3D6eced39b813e31d09bb643586bd630f5%23p229894 in case a mod deletes it which i have reason to believe they might)(edited)
  24.  
  25. [1:23 AM] Venexis: that's a hell of an image
  26. [1:27 AM] Venexis: also even zoomed in all the way it's impossible to read
  27. [1:27 AM] Raz: oj made a pastebin too http://pastebin.com/GxEbp9tS
  28. Pastebin
  29. [quote="Supershroom"]Reposting this with better clarification an...
  30.  
  31. [1:28 AM] Venexis: alright this might be a stupid-ass question but uh
  32. [1:28 AM] Venexis: is this a game
  33. [1:28 AM] Raz: i guess so
  34. [2:19 AM] MoDreamz: so Shroom made a "game" that was very thinly veiled insults towards half the staff?
  35. [2:20 AM] MoDreamz: aka the half that he didn't get on with?
  36. [2:23 AM] MoDreamz: "is that game lowkey taking shots at some people on Runouw"
  37. [2:23 AM] MoDreamz: define lowkey
  38. [9:26 AM] Raiyuuni: subtle, I assume
  39. [9:26 AM] Raiyuuni: which this is completely not
  40. [1:01 PM] Karyete: as flattering as it is that Shroom thinks I'm impartial and down-to-earth
  41. [1:02 PM] Karyete: I still feel like it's nothing more than sucking up to the staff who don't already despise him
  42. [1:03 PM] Karyete: oh my god some of the stuff he's posted there is downright insulting
  43. [1:04 PM] Karyete: doesn't seem like he did a very good job of disguising his bias towards certain staff
  44. [1:53 PM] -Zero: Just read through this, and I can tell that most of the stuff he said there are not only downright offensive, and obciously directed towards certain members, but if he had written this over at the forums, it'd be more than enough for a permaban
  45. [1:54 PM] -Zero: Nothing of this is news for me because he constantly PM'd me saying everything about these members
  46. [1:55 PM] -Zero: But he's not even trying to hide it anymore: He openly hates such members
  47. [1:57 PM] -Zero: Really, for not only harassing staff but normal members, and I'd say more were the LL site issues relevant to this problem, a permaban is well deserved by now
  48. [6:37 PM] Venexis: I mean, I'm asking if it's a game because games are inherently not serious things and although it definitely seems offensive, if the names were removed, there'd be no issue whatsoever. So I guess I'm just wondering, is it an easily rectified solution of changing names, or something that shouldn't really be a problem at all because artistic liberty is a thing that sometimes results in exaggeration or creation of traits for plot purposes, something that Npro's game does as well?
  49. [6:39 PM] Venexis: Secondary question- do people actually frequent the SMBX forums out of interest in the forums or the game or simply to collect ammo to fuel some anti-Shroom group, cuz uh
  50. [6:39 PM] Venexis: last I'd heard not many people gave a shit about them and the people who did were trying to distance themselves
  51. [6:41 PM] Venexis: It's pretty fuckin weird that this was discovered the day of? a day after? it was posted, is all
  52. [6:49 PM] Raz: mega found it
  53. [7:10 PM] Raz: also the difference between npro's game and shroom's is that shrooms is just direct insults of every single person he obviously doesn't like, npro is very careful to not insult anyone or otherwise be offensive
  54. [7:10 PM] Raz: (he also sent PMs to everyone asking their permission and about roles too)
  55. [7:11 PM] Raz: i don't think npromin needed to insult anyone to get the point of the roles across
  56. [7:17 PM] Raz: and regardless "it's just a game" or "artistic liberty" is not a valid excuse here, shroom could've left out the descriptions for each character entirely as they have no affect on the roles themselves. it's obviously intended to be defamation of the people he insulted as even the "good" or "neutral" characters in the mother razzia plot have insults in them such as MoD and MK
  57. [7:24 PM] Raz: I don't see how this can be defended at all, he obviously went in it with the intentions of making us look like shitty people and before it's somehow twisted so it's OUR fault, let me make it clear that no one that he attacked has EVER done anything to this caliber or anywhere NEAR this caliber to him
  58. [7:25 PM] Raz: especially in front of people who have no idea who we are who now think every one of the accused members are shitty people
  59. [7:27 PM] Raz: in fact, none of the members he attacked who left the forum because of people like him have even thought or talked about him since they left
  60. [9:45 PM] Venexis: It's lore. Lore requires reasons for things. Saying the roles themselves are still coherent without any justification for why Runouw/Razzia would want to kill off the other is something that a lot of people are not going to get. You might as well pick any arbitrary group of characters, give then any arbitrary reason for not getting along, and go with that... which kinda goes against the point of the thread, which seems to be asking for "are there any more interesting mafia character sets". The only issue here I'm seeing is that there's names matched to traits that people aren't happy with.
  61. [9:46 PM] Venexis: Squares hate triangles because I don't fuckin know, the universe is blue. Not the type of thing that people want to play.
  62. [9:47 PM] Raz: So this is acceptible because it's a game
  63. [9:47 PM] Raz: am i interpreting this right
  64. [9:48 PM] Venexis: No, I'm just trying to find the real issue. If the names were changed, nobody has any convincing argument for disliking it.
  65. [9:48 PM] Raz: The damage was done, the intentions were clear(edited)
  66. [9:48 PM] Raz: I don't give a shit if the names were changed
  67. [9:49 PM] Raz: And neither should anyone here, regardless of whether you were one of the people attacked or not
  68. [9:50 PM] Venexis: I'll put it this way, then. If there were no names from the start, and we had to guess who was which role, then that's our problem if we self-insert into "bad guys".
  69. [9:51 PM] Venexis: There was no reason to guess who was which role because if they were unnamed from the start, obviously the intent was to discourage that
  70. [9:51 PM] Raz: Okay, sadly, that wasn't what happened
  71. [9:51 PM] Raz: now what's the plan of action
  72. [9:52 PM] Raz: let him slide
  73. [9:52 PM] Raz: it was a harmless game
  74. [9:52 PM] Venexis: well, for 6 more days, yes.
  75. [9:53 PM] Raz: lmao
  76. [9:53 PM] Raz: this is a joke
  77. [9:53 PM] Venexis: I instituted a grace period for this exact reason, and his game was posted 2 days before I posted my thing, so.
  78. [9:53 PM] Venexis: I mean if we want to play that game I'm completely fine but uh, I didn't want to do ANY retroactive punishment for exactly this reason.
  79. [10:06 PM] Venexis: Realistically though what would you guys do? He's banned. A ton of people are super anal about not speaking to him at all. What would you do that violates neither of those things, while also communicating to him that there's a problem with it, while ALSO not violating proper punishment procedures?
  80. [10:06 PM] Venexis: Someone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
  81. [10:10 PM] Raz: Maybe our procedures need to be rewritten, because clearly we didn't account for the fact that people could still be awful even when banned.
  82. [10:12 PM] Raz: and maybe you guys need to permaban him and clarify to the site why you guys decided to break proper procedures and do such a thing, cause otherwise you guys are letting someone do these awful things and your only excuse for not doing anything is a "grace period"
  83. [10:14 PM] Raz: and you know what something tells me the site won't even mind that you guys broke protocol when you clarify what shroom has done and said
  84. [10:17 PM] Raz: and don't get me wrong, a permaban isn't an instant solution and he won't just go away immediately. but clearly neither is pardoning everything he's already done and letting him stay on the site before he inevitably causes another problem in the future(edited)
  85. [10:18 PM] Venexis: I dunno, nobody's said anything bad about a clean slate. But theoretically speaking, I go and perma him right now.
  86. [10:18 PM] Raz: and how do i know he's gonna cause another problem? half the normal users have realized what shroom has done and they have some problem with him now and even when banned he's still causing problems
  87. [10:18 PM] Venexis: Then what?
  88. [10:18 PM] Venexis: None of this is going to stop, he's not doing it here anymore.
  89. [10:19 PM] Venexis: We can't do any more than a perma, like, the system literally does not have a "nuke from satellite orbit" option or anything
  90. [10:19 PM] Raz: It's not the staff's problem if he's doing it on other sites and we've banned him the highest ban possible
  91. [10:20 PM] Raz: But maybe I, as a individual might want to do something about it
  92. [10:20 PM] Raz: not as a member of runouw but just someone who cares for the wellbeing of another site from having the same problems that we had
  93. [10:21 PM] Raz: cause hey, the staff on SMBX forums seem pretty understanding as well https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/206275982443806720/206278000298295297/Screenshot_2016-07-23_at_00.14.56.png
  94.  
  95. [10:21 PM] Raz: (that pm wasn't sent to me)
  96. [10:22 PM] Venexis: Has whoever it was sent to taken them up on the offer?
  97. [10:23 PM] Raz: no, I wanted to make sure it was seen and maybe give shroom a chance to remove it after seeing your new post on our forum
  98. [10:25 PM] Venexis: 'cuz I know this grace period and stuff is coming off as super bullshit at times and honestly, that stance is entirely correct. If this situation was possible to resolve into a black and white situation, it would be that easy. It's just gone on for so long and become such a vast and multifaceted issue that any black and white easy solution will at best take care of one tiny aspect of it- meanwhile every other aspect keeps making life miserable for everyone
  99. [10:26 PM] Venexis: Is everyone still miserable now? Yeah. No question about that. But maybe, eventually, a little bit of bullshit that results in as much ambiguity as possible being stripped away will let people enjoy things here again. That's the reason I'm being so hardline with this stuff
  100. [10:27 PM] Venexis: Even a long shot is preferrable to no shot, IMO
  101. [10:29 PM] Venexis: Because no shot means everyone leaves. All the good stuff we had here at one point just disappears. Nobody will ever walk through the doors to our forum again, because it'll become a ghost town like XNR3 is now... and I'll be fucked if I don't put in an attempt to avoid that.
  102. [10:31 PM] Raz: No shot is what we're leading to right now
  103. [10:32 PM] Raz: I don't think many of the users are in a good position about shroom right now and neither were we a year ago when there were 3 months between conflicts with shroom and the anger each time made it seem like there wasn't a 3 month gap between each argument
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