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Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B Part 2 Subtitles [EN] Raw DFXP

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  18. <p begin="00:00:00.369" end="00:00:11.909">&#9834; (intro music) &#9834;</p>
  19. <p begin="00:00:11.909" end="00:00:13.800">Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. <br/>Welcome.</p>
  20. <p begin="00:00:13.800" end="00:00:15.819">This is James Corbett of <br/>CorbettReport.com.</p>
  21. <p begin="00:00:15.819" end="00:00:20.232">It is currently the 8th of February, 2013<br/>here in the Land of the Rising Sun,</p>
  22. <p begin="00:00:20.232" end="00:00:22.089">and tonight we are joined once again</p>
  23. <p begin="00:00:22.089" end="00:00:24.792">on the line from the western<br/>United States</p>
  24. <p begin="00:00:24.792" end="00:00:27.245">by our old friend Sibel Edmonds</p>
  25. <p begin="00:00:27.245" end="00:00:29.505">of BoilingFrogsPost.com.</p>
  26. <p begin="00:00:29.505" end="00:00:31.279">And for those of you who missed</p>
  27. <p begin="00:00:31.279" end="00:00:33.013">our recent conversation with Sibel</p>
  28. <p begin="00:00:33.013" end="00:00:34.866">on Operation Gladio</p>
  29. <p begin="00:00:34.866" end="00:00:37.327">and how that relates<br/>to the current war on terror,</p>
  30. <p begin="00:00:37.417" end="00:00:39.185">I would wholeheartedly suggest</p>
  31. <p begin="00:00:39.185" end="00:00:43.087">you go and re-acquaint yourself,<br/>or acquaint yourself, with that interview.</p>
  32. <p begin="00:00:43.087" end="00:00:45.133">A ton of fascinating information</p>
  33. <p begin="00:00:45.133" end="00:00:46.413">in that first interview,</p>
  34. <p begin="00:00:46.593" end="00:00:48.820">and this is the second interview</p>
  35. <p begin="00:00:48.820" end="00:00:51.705">in what promises to be a series <br/>of interviews on this subject</p>
  36. <p begin="00:00:51.705" end="00:00:53.490">as we continue exploring deeper</p>
  37. <p begin="00:00:53.490" end="00:00:56.010">into Operation Gladio Plan B</p>
  38. <p begin="00:00:56.290" end="00:00:59.188">and how that ties in to the current <br/>War on Terror.</p>
  39. <p begin="00:00:59.188" end="00:01:02.491">So Sibel, thank you once again <br/>for your time tonight.</p>
  40. <p begin="00:01:02.493" end="00:01:03.350">Sure.</p>
  41. <p begin="00:01:03.530" end="00:01:05.295">Well, let's pick up</p>
  42. <p begin="00:01:05.465" end="00:01:07.233">where we left off last time.</p>
  43. <p begin="00:01:07.233" end="00:01:10.415">We really did cover quite a bit<br/>about the ultranationalists</p>
  44. <p begin="00:01:10.427" end="00:01:13.658">and how that was used<br/>in Operation Gladio in Turkey</p>
  45. <p begin="00:01:13.658" end="00:01:16.309">in the 1960s, 70s, 80s,</p>
  46. <p begin="00:01:16.309" end="00:01:19.243">and how that leads into the<br/>current time-frame.</p>
  47. <p begin="00:01:19.243" end="00:01:22.158">And we talked a bit about<br/>the current era, the War on Terror.</p>
  48. <p begin="00:01:22.158" end="00:01:24.585">But let's start getting more<br/>into that specifically.</p>
  49. <p begin="00:01:24.695" end="00:01:27.360">And there's a couple of news stories<br/>that have just occurred</p>
  50. <p begin="00:01:27.360" end="00:01:28.555"> in the last couple of weeks<br/></p>
  51. <p begin="00:01:28.555" end="00:01:31.826">that might provide a good starting point<br/>or an entr&#233;e to this conversation.</p>
  52. <p begin="00:01:31.826" end="00:01:36.375">And I want to start with the recent <br/>bombing, in Ankara, of the US Embassy.</p>
  53. <p begin="00:01:36.455" end="00:01:38.982">And people might have followed this story,</p>
  54. <p begin="00:01:38.982" end="00:01:41.103">but some of the details that have <br/>come out are</p>
  55. <p begin="00:01:41.103" end="00:01:43.722">-- or at least the way they're being<br/>framed in the mainstream media --</p>
  56. <p begin="00:01:43.722" end="00:01:45.141">are quite interesting.<br/>For example,</p>
  57. <p begin="00:01:45.141" end="00:01:47.610">we have this from <span tts:fontStyle="italic">The Times of Israel</span><br/>from last week:</p>
  58. <p begin="00:01:47.930" end="00:01:51.253">"Turkey: Embassy bombers cling<br/>to Cold War ideology."</p>
  59. <p begin="00:01:51.261" end="00:01:54.379">And it says,<br/>"Some speculate that the DHKP-C"</p>
  60. <p begin="00:01:54.379" end="00:01:58.143">"targeted the old 'imperialist' nemesis<br/>of leftist radicals everywhere"</p>
  61. <p begin="00:01:58.143" end="00:02:00.223">"in efforts to oust Assad."</p>
  62. <p begin="00:02:00.233" end="00:02:02.164">And this article starts by saying,</p>
  63. <p begin="00:02:02.164" end="00:02:03.348">"Long before al-Qaeda,"</p>
  64. <p begin="00:02:03.348" end="00:02:05.236">"when the Cold War gripped the world,"</p>
  65. <p begin="00:02:05.286" end="00:02:08.172">"leftist terrorists staged <br/>spectacular attacks"</p>
  66. <p begin="00:02:08.172" end="00:02:10.485">"in a doomed campaign <br/>to overthrow governments"</p>
  67. <p begin="00:02:10.630" end="00:02:12.982">"and impose their vision<br/>of a socialist utopia."</p>
  68. <p begin="00:02:12.982" end="00:02:16.265">"The bulk of these extremist groups<br/>eventually drifted into oblivion,"</p>
  69. <p begin="00:02:16.265" end="00:02:18.298">gutted by police pressure, internal rifts,</p>
  70. <p begin="00:02:18.298" end="00:02:21.733">and an ideology undercut <br/>by Communism's fall.</p>
  71. <p begin="00:02:22.097" end="00:02:24.992">"In Turkey, one cult-like group <br/>didn't get the memo."</p>
  72. <p begin="00:02:25.023" end="00:02:27.369">And it goes on to talk about <br/>how this group</p>
  73. <p begin="00:02:27.452" end="00:02:32.017">-- the Revolutionary People's<br/>Liberation Party Front, or the DHKPC --</p>
  74. <p begin="00:02:32.017" end="00:02:33.792">is responsible for this bombing.</p>
  75. <p begin="00:02:34.002" end="00:02:35.975">Sibel, what do you make of this bombing </p>
  76. <p begin="00:02:36.015" end="00:02:38.492">and how it's being framed right now</p>
  77. <p begin="00:02:38.492" end="00:02:43.158">in terms of this Cold War ideology<br/>leftover of the socialist radicals?</p>
  78. <p begin="00:02:43.844" end="00:02:45.308">It's very interesting, </p>
  79. <p begin="00:02:45.308" end="00:02:48.239">because you can't really get to the <br/>bottom of what's going on there.</p>
  80. <p begin="00:02:48.239" end="00:02:51.006">As you said, with all these <br/>conflicting reports</p>
  81. <p begin="00:02:51.006" end="00:02:53.370">that is coming out on this attack.</p>
  82. <p begin="00:02:53.630" end="00:02:56.670">And as far as Turkey and Turkish media</p>
  83. <p begin="00:02:56.670" end="00:02:58.355">and the Turkish government goes,</p>
  84. <p begin="00:02:58.355" end="00:03:00.498">whenever they say "left"</p>
  85. <p begin="00:03:00.498" end="00:03:01.598">and "the communists"</p>
  86. <p begin="00:03:01.598" end="00:03:02.659">and "these groups"</p>
  87. <p begin="00:03:02.659" end="00:03:03.657">and "these cults,"</p>
  88. <p begin="00:03:03.657" end="00:03:05.553">they're always talking about Russia.</p>
  89. <p begin="00:03:05.793" end="00:03:10.067">And another way they framed<br/>this latest incident was</p>
  90. <p begin="00:03:10.086" end="00:03:12.834">tie it, again, to Syria and to Assad.</p>
  91. <p begin="00:03:12.860" end="00:03:16.188">Because these people are very pissed<br/>off, they are very angry:</p>
  92. <p begin="00:03:16.188" end="00:03:19.477">the Turkish government's support<br/>of the United States</p>
  93. <p begin="00:03:19.477" end="00:03:23.368">and the foreign influence there to Assad.</p>
  94. <p begin="00:03:23.768" end="00:03:25.722">And, well, let's see:</p>
  95. <p begin="00:03:25.832" end="00:03:27.084">they are Communist,</p>
  96. <p begin="00:03:27.244" end="00:03:28.539">they are leftist,</p>
  97. <p begin="00:03:28.709" end="00:03:30.614">they are pro-Assad.</p>
  98. <p begin="00:03:30.614" end="00:03:34.351">And so... and then we have had<br/>one superpower </p>
  99. <p begin="00:03:34.351" end="00:03:35.818">-- or former superpower -- </p>
  100. <p begin="00:03:35.818" end="00:03:37.716">who has been stepping in and saying,</p>
  101. <p begin="00:03:37.716" end="00:03:39.889">"No, you can't attack Syria,"</p>
  102. <p begin="00:03:39.889" end="00:03:42.255">and has been an obstacle</p>
  103. <p begin="00:03:42.255" end="00:03:45.608">to some of our plans for Syria.</p>
  104. <p begin="00:03:45.608" end="00:03:47.993">And that is, who? Russia.</p>
  105. <p begin="00:03:47.993" end="00:03:51.110">So... so it starts coming all together,</p>
  106. <p begin="00:03:51.110" end="00:03:54.185">and in a way maybe it's an <br/>indirect message</p>
  107. <p begin="00:03:54.185" end="00:03:57.820">-- because I'm sure they get the direct<br/>message through different channels --</p>
  108. <p begin="00:03:57.820" end="00:03:58.945">to Russia, saying:</p>
  109. <p begin="00:03:58.945" end="00:04:01.461">"OK, well, we're gonna have<br/>some of these incidents,"</p>
  110. <p begin="00:04:01.461" end="00:04:04.691">"and you're gonna start looking<br/>really bad internationally."</p>
  111. <p begin="00:04:04.691" end="00:04:07.231">And so that's what it looks like.</p>
  112. <p begin="00:04:07.461" end="00:04:12.904">The <span tts:fontStyle="italic">most important</span> thing<br/>in terms of timing on this</p>
  113. <p begin="00:04:12.989" end="00:04:15.711">is the recent report</p>
  114. <p begin="00:04:16.171" end="00:04:19.134">-- the mainstream media is not<br/>really playing it big yet,</p>
  115. <p begin="00:04:19.140" end="00:04:20.945">not in the United States.</p>
  116. <p begin="00:04:20.945" end="00:04:23.858">It's <span tts:fontStyle="italic">huge</span> in Turkey, and it's very big</p>
  117. <p begin="00:04:23.931" end="00:04:25.967">in the rest of the Middle East.</p>
  118. <p begin="00:04:26.447" end="00:04:29.015">All these Arabic publications:</p>
  119. <p begin="00:04:29.345" end="00:04:32.433">from Egypt, to Saudi Arabia, </p>
  120. <p begin="00:04:32.433" end="00:04:33.699">to even Pakistan.</p>
  121. <p begin="00:04:33.979" end="00:04:37.547">And that is: the recent arrest</p>
  122. <p begin="00:04:38.367" end="00:04:41.307">-- and immediate <span tts:fontStyle="italic">release</span> of --</p>
  123. <p begin="00:04:41.757" end="00:04:44.447">Bin Laden's son-in-law.</p>
  124. <p begin="00:04:44.877" end="00:04:47.487">Well, this guy, Bin Laden's son-in-law,</p>
  125. <p begin="00:04:47.487" end="00:04:49.623">since 2000 actually has been</p>
  126. <p begin="00:04:49.623" end="00:04:51.626">most wanted internationally.</p>
  127. <p begin="00:04:51.916" end="00:04:56.495">And if you recall, Bin Laden</p>
  128. <p begin="00:04:56.495" end="00:04:58.880">really never directly claimed</p>
  129. <p begin="00:04:58.880" end="00:05:00.486">responsibility for 9/11.</p>
  130. <p begin="00:05:00.566" end="00:05:03.750">It has never been this clear claim</p>
  131. <p begin="00:05:03.750" end="00:05:05.906">of responsibility for 9/11.</p>
  132. <p begin="00:05:06.366" end="00:05:08.459">On the other hand, this guy,</p>
  133. <p begin="00:05:08.459" end="00:05:09.722">Bin Laden's son-in-law...</p>
  134. <p begin="00:05:09.722" end="00:05:15.140">-- who's supposed to be among top five<br/>al-Qaeda leaders and number two</p>
  135. <p begin="00:05:15.140" end="00:05:20.578">spokesperson for so-called al-Qaeda:<br/>and this is Bin Laden's son-in-law --</p>
  136. <p begin="00:05:20.641" end="00:05:24.176">he is the one who did the <br/>highest number</p>
  137. <p begin="00:05:24.179" end="00:05:27.096">of these so-called videos that <br/>kept popping up</p>
  138. <p begin="00:05:27.291" end="00:05:30.713">between 2001, 9/11, and 2008.</p>
  139. <p begin="00:05:30.813" end="00:05:33.066">At least six or seven videos</p>
  140. <p begin="00:05:33.486" end="00:05:36.871">came out that this guy<br/>was saying, "OK, we did great,"</p>
  141. <p begin="00:05:36.871" end="00:05:40.828">and in some ways claiming <br/>responsibility for 9/11,</p>
  142. <p begin="00:05:40.908" end="00:05:44.057">and then coming and threatening<br/>over Iraq and everything.</p>
  143. <p begin="00:05:44.085" end="00:05:47.616">So this guy has been wanted,</p>
  144. <p begin="00:05:47.876" end="00:05:49.319">and the rumor has been</p>
  145. <p begin="00:05:49.409" end="00:05:51.689">-- or had been until recently --</p>
  146. <p begin="00:05:51.689" end="00:05:54.512">that he was in Iran, of all places.</p>
  147. <p begin="00:05:54.512" end="00:05:55.934">Now you have to remember,</p>
  148. <p begin="00:05:55.934" end="00:06:00.251">Iran has <span tts:fontStyle="italic">never, ever</span> had good relations</p>
  149. <p begin="00:06:00.251" end="00:06:02.168">-- or <span tts:fontStyle="italic">any</span> relationship --<br/>with al-Qaeda.</p>
  150. <p begin="00:06:03.178" end="00:06:06.504">There were certain geographic <br/>locations in Iran</p>
  151. <p begin="00:06:06.504" end="00:06:09.281">that had a high level of activities,</p>
  152. <p begin="00:06:09.281" end="00:06:12.271">but that area is considered<br/>the no-man's zone:</p>
  153. <p begin="00:06:12.271" end="00:06:14.349">and that is Sistan and Baluchistan.</p>
  154. <p begin="00:06:14.929" end="00:06:17.585">And that is shared by Pakistan as well.</p>
  155. <p begin="00:06:17.585" end="00:06:21.144">And we know that Khalid Sheikh <br/>Mohammed has been active there,</p>
  156. <p begin="00:06:21.499" end="00:06:22.886">including Bin Laden,</p>
  157. <p begin="00:06:22.886" end="00:06:24.374">Bin Laden's son-in-law.</p>
  158. <p begin="00:06:24.444" end="00:06:27.275">On and off, this region<br/>has been very important.</p>
  159. <p begin="00:06:27.275" end="00:06:30.324">And this region <span tts:fontStyle="italic">also</span> has been very <br/>important for the United States.</p>
  160. <p begin="00:06:30.324" end="00:06:33.096">We have been doing <span tts:fontStyle="italic">a lot</span> of things <br/>in Baluchistan.</p>
  161. <p begin="00:06:33.366" end="00:06:36.139">Baluchistan, just like Xinjiang <br/>that I mentioned,</p>
  162. <p begin="00:06:36.139" end="00:06:39.552">is <span tts:fontStyle="italic">another</span> area that you don't<br/>hear much report.</p>
  163. <p begin="00:06:39.651" end="00:06:42.344">All we know as Americans, in general,</p>
  164. <p begin="00:06:42.344" end="00:06:44.442">is that there are all these<br/>terror incidents;</p>
  165. <p begin="00:06:44.442" end="00:06:46.560">there are people who want <br/>independence;</p>
  166. <p begin="00:06:46.560" end="00:06:49.807">Pakistan: they're abusing them, they're <br/>oppressing them, and...</p>
  167. <p begin="00:06:50.327" end="00:06:51.678">And so, anyhow:</p>
  168. <p begin="00:06:51.938" end="00:06:54.017">Baluchistan, Sistan, but not Iran.</p>
  169. <p begin="00:06:54.247" end="00:06:56.542">You're looking at Sunni factions</p>
  170. <p begin="00:06:57.212" end="00:07:00.080">-- and these are the Wahhabis;<br/>this is Bin Laden.</p>
  171. <p begin="00:07:00.523" end="00:07:02.325">You're looking... Iran's Shias.</p>
  172. <p begin="00:07:02.455" end="00:07:04.565">Iran and Bin Laden and...</p>
  173. <p begin="00:07:04.565" end="00:07:06.393">-- or, so-called al-Qaeda --</p>
  174. <p begin="00:07:06.393" end="00:07:09.753">they've never had <span tts:fontStyle="italic">anything</span> jointly.<br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Nothing.</span></p>
  175. <p begin="00:07:09.753" end="00:07:13.621">In fact, during the time<br/>when I was in the FBI after 9/11,</p>
  176. <p begin="00:07:14.351" end="00:07:17.280">we -- the United States --<br/>we tried very hard</p>
  177. <p begin="00:07:17.280" end="00:07:21.142">to find <span tts:fontStyle="italic">something</span> to link Iran to 9/11.</p>
  178. <p begin="00:07:21.292" end="00:07:23.946">And they couldn't.<br/>They couldn't even make it up:</p>
  179. <p begin="00:07:23.946" end="00:07:25.640">I mean, it was that far-fetched.</p>
  180. <p begin="00:07:25.650" end="00:07:27.547">However, the rumor has been</p>
  181. <p begin="00:07:27.547" end="00:07:31.804">-- and I have no idea how it started:<br/>usually we don't have any idea </p>
  182. <p begin="00:07:31.804" end="00:07:36.168">how these things start; it just gets to<br/>be placed out there, then it circulates --</p>
  183. <p begin="00:07:36.168" end="00:07:40.598">was that Bin Laden's son-in-law<br/>went to Iran; he was arrested in Iran;</p>
  184. <p begin="00:07:40.598" end="00:07:44.524">and Iran is holding several key<br/>al-Qaeda members,</p>
  185. <p begin="00:07:45.714" end="00:07:50.352">in either prisons<br/>or some sort of house arrest in Iran.</p>
  186. <p begin="00:07:50.595" end="00:07:53.750">Never confirmed;<br/>never a shred of evidence.</p>
  187. <p begin="00:07:53.850" end="00:07:55.406">Anyhow, in October</p>
  188. <p begin="00:07:55.406" end="00:07:56.643">-- uh, in February,</p>
  189. <p begin="00:07:56.643" end="00:07:59.013">that would be on February 2nd or 3rd,</p>
  190. <p begin="00:07:59.013" end="00:08:00.689">here is the headline saying,</p>
  191. <p begin="00:08:01.489" end="00:08:07.064">"Bin Laden's son-in-law was arrested <br/>in Turkey by Turkish authorities."</p>
  192. <p begin="00:08:07.164" end="00:08:10.620">And he was...<br/>-- and this is Bin Laden's son-in-law --</p>
  193. <p begin="00:08:10.620" end="00:08:12.961">he was staying at this five-star hotel</p>
  194. <p begin="00:08:13.231" end="00:08:16.674">only two blocks from the<br/>Presidential Palace.</p>
  195. <p begin="00:08:16.674" end="00:08:18.717">In a way, hiding there, in a five-star...</p>
  196. <p begin="00:08:18.717" end="00:08:23.241">-- it's a penthouse room,<br/>according to the Turkish media.</p>
  197. <p begin="00:08:23.739" end="00:08:25.885">And how did this happen?</p>
  198. <p begin="00:08:25.955" end="00:08:28.441">So, you have Bin Laden's son-in-law</p>
  199. <p begin="00:08:28.441" end="00:08:31.778">-- one of the top five al-Qaeda leaders <br/>most wanted,</p>
  200. <p begin="00:08:31.778" end="00:08:34.608"> or wanted by the international <br/>community --</p>
  201. <p begin="00:08:34.788" end="00:08:37.821">and he is in this penthouse<br/>in this hotel</p>
  202. <p begin="00:08:37.821" end="00:08:39.787">in capital city of Turkey,</p>
  203. <p begin="00:08:40.477" end="00:08:42.626">two blocks from the Presidential Palace.</p>
  204. <p begin="00:08:43.186" end="00:08:48.088">And the story that Turkish government<br/>fed to the media was,</p>
  205. <p begin="00:08:48.088" end="00:08:50.036">"This is how it happened:" They...</p>
  206. <p begin="00:08:50.036" end="00:08:52.089">-- this is "they" being the<br/>Turkish government --</p>
  207. <p begin="00:08:52.089" end="00:08:54.744">they got a call from the CIA.</p>
  208. <p begin="00:08:55.104" end="00:08:56.209">And CIA said,</p>
  209. <p begin="00:08:56.209" end="00:08:59.757">"We want to give you a very <br/>important information!"</p>
  210. <p begin="00:09:00.277" end="00:09:01.475">"Bin Laden's son-in-law,"</p>
  211. <p begin="00:09:01.475" end="00:09:06.232">"our most wanted guy, he..."<br/>-- maybe with a backpack or something,</p>
  212. <p begin="00:09:06.232" end="00:09:08.464">the guy who was staying in a <br/>five-star hotel --</p>
  213. <p begin="00:09:08.464" end="00:09:11.522">"he crossed the border..."<br/>(laughs) "from Iran,"</p>
  214. <p begin="00:09:11.992" end="00:09:13.837">"recently entered Turkey."</p>
  215. <p begin="00:09:13.837" end="00:09:15.532">"In fact, we know where he's staying: "</p>
  216. <p begin="00:09:15.532" end="00:09:18.204">"here is the name of his hotel,<br/>and his room number."</p>
  217. <p begin="00:09:18.357" end="00:09:20.425">And Turkish authorities, they said,<br/>"Whoo!"</p>
  218. <p begin="00:09:20.492" end="00:09:22.630">So they stormed the hotel room,</p>
  219. <p begin="00:09:22.630" end="00:09:24.093">the penthouse unit</p>
  220. <p begin="00:09:24.093" end="00:09:26.013">two blocks from the Presidential Palace.</p>
  221. <p begin="00:09:26.363" end="00:09:29.500">They took this guy and questioned him;</p>
  222. <p begin="00:09:29.500" end="00:09:31.202">interrogated him.</p>
  223. <p begin="00:09:31.202" end="00:09:33.621"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Temporarily</span>, they held him.</p>
  224. <p begin="00:09:34.071" end="00:09:36.243">And again, it's very interesting:</p>
  225. <p begin="00:09:36.243" end="00:09:40.273">it's not a regular criminal<br/>or terrorism-related police station;</p>
  226. <p begin="00:09:40.575" end="00:09:42.005">it's in a totally different</p>
  227. <p begin="00:09:42.005" end="00:09:44.816">political, intelligence-related station</p>
  228. <p begin="00:09:44.816" end="00:09:46.640">that they held him.</p>
  229. <p begin="00:09:46.950" end="00:09:52.900">Then they said they don't have any<br/>evidence indicating that this guy</p>
  230. <p begin="00:09:53.230" end="00:09:56.276">-- Bin Laden's son-in-law,<br/>the internationally most wanted guy,</p>
  231. <p begin="00:09:56.276" end="00:09:58.400">al-Qaeda's number four or number five --</p>
  232. <p begin="00:09:58.650" end="00:10:00.824">has done anything against Turkey, </p>
  233. <p begin="00:10:00.824" end="00:10:04.381">or has threatened Turkish security<br/>in any way.</p>
  234. <p begin="00:10:04.541" end="00:10:07.026">And because of that, they were <br/>going to release him.</p>
  235. <p begin="00:10:07.936" end="00:10:11.785">Then the articles -- these newspapers in <br/>Turkey -- they are saying,</p>
  236. <p begin="00:10:11.785" end="00:10:13.745">"Well, the US said,<br/>'But, we want him!'"</p>
  237. <p begin="00:10:13.752" end="00:10:15.164">"'We want him in Guant&#225;namo!'"</p>
  238. <p begin="00:10:15.164" end="00:10:18.813">"'I mean, this guy: imagine <br/>how much information he has on 9/11!'"</p>
  239. <p begin="00:10:19.153" end="00:10:22.469">"'As you know, we've never been able<br/>to have anyone in court.'"</p>
  240. <p begin="00:10:22.469" end="00:10:25.241">"'They're either dead or they<br/>have disappeared.'"</p>
  241. <p begin="00:10:25.241" end="00:10:26.653">"'Not a single person!'"</p>
  242. <p begin="00:10:26.823" end="00:10:29.226">"'So we want him.<br/>Give this guy to us.'"</p>
  243. <p begin="00:10:29.226" end="00:10:30.931">And Turkey said,</p>
  244. <p begin="00:10:31.201" end="00:10:34.906">"Uh, sorry, we don't have this<br/>extradition treaty with you."</p>
  245. <p begin="00:10:35.097" end="00:10:38.063">"And as we said, this guy<br/>hasn't done anything to us."</p>
  246. <p begin="00:10:38.063" end="00:10:40.423">"'So we are not gonna give him,<br/>hand him to you."</p>
  247. <p begin="00:10:40.423" end="00:10:43.346">And the CIA and the State Department,<br/>the US Government, said,</p>
  248. <p begin="00:10:43.346" end="00:10:47.433">"Oh, OK." Hmm...<br/>"We are not happy, but fine."</p>
  249. <p begin="00:10:48.583" end="00:10:49.527">Now, as I said...</p>
  250. <p begin="00:10:49.527" end="00:10:52.897">Definite... and keep in mind,<br/>this is the same CIA that has</p>
  251. <p begin="00:10:52.897" end="00:10:56.251">abducted citizens from other countries<br/>that they have nothing to do with</p>
  252. <p begin="00:10:56.251" end="00:10:58.681">-- including, famously, Italy and <br/>other places --</p>
  253. <p begin="00:10:58.681" end="00:11:01.174">and flown them halfway across the world <br/>to torture them.</p>
  254. <p begin="00:11:01.174" end="00:11:02.012">Exactly.</p>
  255. <p begin="00:11:02.012" end="00:11:04.196">But they won't do that with<br/>this person, apparently.</p>
  256. <p begin="00:11:04.196" end="00:11:06.565">First of all, it's Turkey. <br/>And Turkey has been </p>
  257. <p begin="00:11:06.565" end="00:11:10.151">one of our <span tts:fontStyle="italic">top</span> allies in detaining</p>
  258. <p begin="00:11:10.151" end="00:11:12.044">-- most of them innocent --<br/>people.</p>
  259. <p begin="00:11:12.144" end="00:11:16.109">Putting them in these black sites<br/>and torturing them.</p>
  260. <p begin="00:11:16.142" end="00:11:18.026">Taking them into Guant&#225;namo.</p>
  261. <p begin="00:11:18.026" end="00:11:20.443"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Since when</span> we are paying attention</p>
  262. <p begin="00:11:20.443" end="00:11:22.635">to some sorts of international rules</p>
  263. <p begin="00:11:22.635" end="00:11:24.678">like extradition treaties?</p>
  264. <p begin="00:11:24.678" end="00:11:26.108">After all, as you said,</p>
  265. <p begin="00:11:26.108" end="00:11:27.651">we had our Gulfstream</p>
  266. <p begin="00:11:27.651" end="00:11:31.698">with our CIA psychopaths with ski masks</p>
  267. <p begin="00:11:31.698" end="00:11:34.047">landing in Sweden and saying,</p>
  268. <p begin="00:11:34.047" end="00:11:36.899">"We want that guy, that guy, that guy."<br/>And Sweden says, "Yes."</p>
  269. <p begin="00:11:36.899" end="00:11:40.259">And they just put chains <br/>around their ankles</p>
  270. <p begin="00:11:40.259" end="00:11:42.433">and they hand them over.</p>
  271. <p begin="00:11:42.433" end="00:11:44.486">No evidence sought.</p>
  272. <p begin="00:11:45.606" end="00:11:47.086">This is what we've been doing.</p>
  273. <p begin="00:11:47.086" end="00:11:49.199">And then we -- basically, it's out</p>
  274. <p begin="00:11:49.199" end="00:11:53.497">that 99% of people in Guant&#225;namo, we<br/>have <span tts:fontStyle="italic">no</span> evidence against these people.</p>
  275. <p begin="00:11:53.497" end="00:11:55.638">They had <span tts:fontStyle="italic">nothing</span> to do with al-Qaeda.</p>
  276. <p begin="00:11:55.638" end="00:11:58.357">Now yet, based on our <span tts:fontStyle="italic">own claim</span>,</p>
  277. <p begin="00:11:58.357" end="00:12:01.394">this is one of the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">top</span> al-Qaeda people.</p>
  278. <p begin="00:12:01.394" end="00:12:04.204">Basically it was, what? Bin Laden, <br/>Zawahiri, </p>
  279. <p begin="00:12:04.204" end="00:12:06.164">Mullah Omar from the Taliban side.</p>
  280. <p begin="00:12:06.164" end="00:12:09.285">This guy is number four or number five,<br/>and is wanted.</p>
  281. <p begin="00:12:09.309" end="00:12:11.450">Turkey says,<br/>"We're not gonna give him to you."</p>
  282. <p begin="00:12:11.450" end="00:12:15.489">And none of our rendition stuff <br/>applies to this:</p>
  283. <p begin="00:12:15.489" end="00:12:16.984"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">We don't want this guy.</span></p>
  284. <p begin="00:12:16.984" end="00:12:18.902"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Why</span> don't we want this guy?</p>
  285. <p begin="00:12:18.962" end="00:12:22.047">And that is the question that people <br/>should be asking.</p>
  286. <p begin="00:12:22.257" end="00:12:24.640">But then again: where is it?</p>
  287. <p begin="00:12:24.640" end="00:12:28.265">-- the news and analysis of this incident <br/>here in the United States</p>
  288. <p begin="00:12:28.265" end="00:12:31.939">for people to even look at and then <br/>ask the question?</p>
  289. <p begin="00:12:31.939" end="00:12:33.874">But again: again, very important,</p>
  290. <p begin="00:12:33.874" end="00:12:36.252">because you are looking at,<br/>again, Turkey.</p>
  291. <p begin="00:12:36.900" end="00:12:42.048">You're looking at a high-level, now,<br/>so-called "al-Qaeda" leader.</p>
  292. <p begin="00:12:42.498" end="00:12:45.450">And as we get into the topics</p>
  293. <p begin="00:12:45.450" end="00:12:47.230">from where we left last time,</p>
  294. <p begin="00:12:47.480" end="00:12:50.236">you keep seeing this same pattern.</p>
  295. <p begin="00:12:50.236" end="00:12:52.525">You're gonna keep seeing the <br/>same pattern <span tts:fontStyle="italic">again</span>.</p>
  296. <p begin="00:12:52.525" end="00:12:55.205"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Another</span> top guy that we declared later</p>
  297. <p begin="00:12:55.205" end="00:12:58.020">as top al-Qaeda financier and terrorist,</p>
  298. <p begin="00:12:58.020" end="00:13:00.999">and that was Yasin al-Qadi.</p>
  299. <p begin="00:13:01.269" end="00:13:03.638">And the name, people may recognize it</p>
  300. <p begin="00:13:03.638" end="00:13:07.547">via P-Tech and the P-Tech incident.</p>
  301. <p begin="00:13:07.547" end="00:13:10.163">Well: Yasin al-Qadi, after 9/11</p>
  302. <p begin="00:13:10.163" end="00:13:11.941">-- without being touched --</p>
  303. <p begin="00:13:11.941" end="00:13:15.664">he left the United States, went for a while -- for about six to eight months -- </p>
  304. <p begin="00:13:15.664" end="00:13:18.341">and lived in Albania. He has <br/>Albanian passport.</p>
  305. <p begin="00:13:18.341" end="00:13:20.786">From Albania, he went to Turkey.</p>
  306. <p begin="00:13:21.306" end="00:13:25.548">And while he was in Turkey,<br/>he still operated.</p>
  307. <p begin="00:13:25.548" end="00:13:27.959">He was totally, completely operational.</p>
  308. <p begin="00:13:27.959" end="00:13:30.162">And the United States did <br/>the same thing.</p>
  309. <p begin="00:13:30.162" end="00:13:33.781">They asked Turkey, they said,<br/>"We want this guy. We want al-Qadi."</p>
  310. <p begin="00:13:33.781" end="00:13:37.334">"Look, he is wanted; his financial <br/>network is wanted."</p>
  311. <p begin="00:13:37.334" end="00:13:39.075">And same thing: Turkey said,</p>
  312. <p begin="00:13:39.075" end="00:13:42.098">"Oh, sorry. There is nothing here<br/>that indicates"</p>
  313. <p begin="00:13:42.098" end="00:13:45.699">"he has done anything criminal or <br/>terrorist-related here in Turkey."</p>
  314. <p begin="00:13:45.699" end="00:13:47.322">"We're not gonna give him to you."</p>
  315. <p begin="00:13:47.322" end="00:13:50.941">And so he very nicely settled there</p>
  316. <p begin="00:13:50.941" end="00:13:53.003">with all his operations and networks,</p>
  317. <p begin="00:13:53.003" end="00:13:54.909">and he's been operational.</p>
  318. <p begin="00:13:54.909" end="00:13:57.288">And now, currently, he is in the <br/>United Kingdom. </p>
  319. <p begin="00:13:57.288" end="00:14:01.616">Because he basically brought these <br/>lawsuits against the United Nations,</p>
  320. <p begin="00:14:01.616" end="00:14:03.079">and finally...</p>
  321. <p begin="00:14:03.079" end="00:14:05.915">-- a few months ago, or a year ago --</p>
  322. <p begin="00:14:05.915" end="00:14:07.936">United Nations said,</p>
  323. <p begin="00:14:07.936" end="00:14:11.590">"OK, well, fine: he's not <br/>really a terrorist."</p>
  324. <p begin="00:14:11.880" end="00:14:15.149">"Nobody has anything evidence<br/>or anything, either,"</p>
  325. <p begin="00:14:15.896" end="00:14:17.805">"for the arguments of terrorist or not."</p>
  326. <p begin="00:14:17.955" end="00:14:20.974">But again, you're looking at Turkey.<br/>And when you start looking,</p>
  327. <p begin="00:14:20.982" end="00:14:22.886">you're gonna see a lot of <br/>these characters.</p>
  328. <p begin="00:14:22.886" end="00:14:26.982">We're gonna see a lot of these people <br/>ending up in Turkey</p>
  329. <p begin="00:14:26.982" end="00:14:30.229">and being protected in Turkey <br/>with <span tts:fontStyle="italic">our</span> OK.</p>
  330. <p begin="00:14:30.229" end="00:14:34.277">Because, as we said: take a look<br/>at the recent reports</p>
  331. <p begin="00:14:34.277" end="00:14:36.453">and see how Turkey has been</p>
  332. <p begin="00:14:36.453" end="00:14:39.357">very, very readily complying</p>
  333. <p begin="00:14:39.357" end="00:14:41.328">with all these illegal practices</p>
  334. <p begin="00:14:41.328" end="00:14:43.654">of black sites, rendition.</p>
  335. <p begin="00:14:43.774" end="00:14:47.860">And you will see that on one hand<br/>they've been doing it</p>
  336. <p begin="00:14:47.860" end="00:14:48.861">-- but why? --</p>
  337. <p begin="00:14:48.861" end="00:14:51.758">with the so-called "important" characters.</p>
  338. <p begin="00:14:51.808" end="00:14:54.980">Turkey has been a great haven<br/>for these people,</p>
  339. <p begin="00:14:54.980" end="00:14:59.034"> to go and continue their network <br/>and their operations.</p>
  340. <p begin="00:14:59.200" end="00:15:02.619">Well, let's focus in on that al-Qadi case <br/>for a little bit</p>
  341. <p begin="00:15:02.619" end="00:15:04.573">because it is such a fascinating story.</p>
  342. <p begin="00:15:04.573" end="00:15:07.146">And of course, immediately<br/>in the wake of 9/11,</p>
  343. <p begin="00:15:07.146" end="00:15:09.275">the US was putting together its list</p>
  344. <p begin="00:15:09.275" end="00:15:10.893">of specially-designated terrorists</p>
  345. <p begin="00:15:10.893" end="00:15:13.879">and specifically looking at <br/>financiers of terrorism.</p>
  346. <p begin="00:15:13.881" end="00:15:17.144">And al-Qadi made that list<br/>in October of 2001.</p>
  347. <p begin="00:15:17.144" end="00:15:19.894">So immediately after 9/11,<br/>he's put on that list.</p>
  348. <p begin="00:15:19.894" end="00:15:23.132">And as you indicate, in the last<br/>four to five years </p>
  349. <p begin="00:15:23.132" end="00:15:25.279">he's managed to clear himself <br/>from blacklists</p>
  350. <p begin="00:15:25.279" end="00:15:28.544">in Switzerland, the European Union,<br/>the United Kingdom,<br/></p>
  351. <p begin="00:15:28.654" end="00:15:31.564">and has managed to fend off lawsuits</p>
  352. <p begin="00:15:31.564" end="00:15:33.264">from 9/11 victims' family members</p>
  353. <p begin="00:15:33.264" end="00:15:34.983">for any culpability -- so far.</p>
  354. <p begin="00:15:34.983" end="00:15:37.032">But he has not yet been removed</p>
  355. <p begin="00:15:37.032" end="00:15:39.434"> from the US specially-designated<br/>terrorists list.</p>
  356. <p begin="00:15:39.434" end="00:15:42.526">And part of the investigation<br/>that <span tts:fontStyle="italic">put</span> him on that list</p>
  357. <p begin="00:15:42.536" end="00:15:46.382">goes back to an FBI investigation<br/>from the late 1990s</p>
  358. <p begin="00:15:46.382" end="00:15:48.343">called Operation Vulgar Betrayal,</p>
  359. <p begin="00:15:48.343" end="00:15:50.802">which was led by a couple of agents</p>
  360. <p begin="00:15:50.802" end="00:15:53.021">that were in that FBI Chicago office.</p>
  361. <p begin="00:15:53.631" end="00:15:57.032">I don't know what you're <span tts:fontStyle="italic">able</span> to say<br/>about those investigations,</p>
  362. <p begin="00:15:57.032" end="00:15:59.809">but perhaps you can tell us<br/>a little bit about that story.</p>
  363. <p begin="00:16:00.149" end="00:16:02.094">Sure. The agents</p>
  364. <p begin="00:16:02.094" end="00:16:04.933">-- Robert Wright and also John Vincent --</p>
  365. <p begin="00:16:04.933" end="00:16:08.825">they became members of <br/>our organization,</p>
  366. <p begin="00:16:08.825" end="00:16:11.051">National Security Whistleblowers<br/>Coalition.</p>
  367. <p begin="00:16:11.051" end="00:16:14.521">And because Robert Wright<br/>was still working...</p>
  368. <p begin="00:16:14.521" end="00:16:16.350">-- he is <span tts:fontStyle="italic">still</span> working with the FBI --</p>
  369. <p begin="00:16:16.350" end="00:16:17.360">and during this time,</p>
  370. <p begin="00:16:17.360" end="00:16:19.105">-- this would be 2003, 2004 --</p>
  371. <p begin="00:16:19.105" end="00:16:22.673">he was under a lot of retaliation<br/>and punishment for what he did</p>
  372. <p begin="00:16:22.683" end="00:16:26.722">by coming and <span tts:fontStyle="italic">exposing</span><br/>this terrorist network,</p>
  373. <p begin="00:16:26.722" end="00:16:29.295">including their investigation;</p>
  374. <p begin="00:16:29.295" end="00:16:31.893">and the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">fact</span> that the United States <br/>government</p>
  375. <p begin="00:16:31.893" end="00:16:37.462">-- this wasn't the FBI itself, but<br/>entities such as the White House, </p>
  376. <p begin="00:16:37.462" end="00:16:40.767"> and the State Department, <br/>and the CIA --</p>
  377. <p begin="00:16:40.767" end="00:16:46.229">they were forced to shut down<br/>this very, very important investigation</p>
  378. <p begin="00:16:46.229" end="00:16:48.470">that, again, would have led us</p>
  379. <p begin="00:16:48.470" end="00:16:53.069">to all the actors and the evidence</p>
  380. <p begin="00:16:53.069" end="00:16:55.631">that were involved, later, in 9/11.</p>
  381. <p begin="00:16:56.001" end="00:16:58.623">So, this guy was under retaliation,</p>
  382. <p begin="00:16:58.623" end="00:17:00.262">so he couldn't become, officially,</p>
  383. <p begin="00:17:00.262" end="00:17:02.402">a member of my organization,<br/>our organization,</p>
  384. <p begin="00:17:02.402" end="00:17:04.253">National Security Whistleblowers<br/>Coalition.</p>
  385. <p begin="00:17:04.253" end="00:17:07.315">But his partner... because these two <br/>guys, they did all this... </p>
  386. <p begin="00:17:07.315" end="00:17:11.303">they chased these bad guys together<br/>in Chicago Field Office</p>
  387. <p begin="00:17:11.943" end="00:17:13.865">-- and that would be John Vincent --</p>
  388. <p begin="00:17:13.865" end="00:17:17.524">he, by then, was retired; <br/>and <span tts:fontStyle="italic">he</span> joined our organization,</p>
  389. <p begin="00:17:17.524" end="00:17:21.737">and he and I had a lot <br/>of discussions on this,</p>
  390. <p begin="00:17:21.737" end="00:17:25.271">and we worked together on all this:<br/>whistleblowers on 9/11-related issues.</p>
  391. <p begin="00:17:25.271" end="00:17:31.009">And again, John Vincent was one of <br/>many, many high-level agents</p>
  392. <p begin="00:17:31.449" end="00:17:34.174">who went to the 9/11 Commission.</p>
  393. <p begin="00:17:34.174" end="00:17:35.076">And they said,</p>
  394. <p begin="00:17:35.076" end="00:17:37.994"> "Let us present you with the evidence"</p>
  395. <p begin="00:17:37.994" end="00:17:40.820"> "of all the things that hasn't<br/>been out yet."</p>
  396. <p begin="00:17:40.820" end="00:17:42.882">"that is related to 9/11."</p>
  397. <p begin="00:17:43.342" end="00:17:46.856">And like many others,<br/>he had been excluded.</p>
  398. <p begin="00:17:46.856" end="00:17:48.435">Same thing with Agent Wright:</p>
  399. <p begin="00:17:48.435" end="00:17:53.019">the FBI said the 9/11 Commission <br/>is <span tts:fontStyle="italic">not allowed</span> to question him.</p>
  400. <p begin="00:17:53.019" end="00:17:55.900">So he was never interviewed by 9/11.</p>
  401. <p begin="00:17:55.900" end="00:18:00.569">And he's a very key guy,<br/>with a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">key</span> operation,</p>
  402. <p begin="00:18:00.569" end="00:18:04.120">and a key investigation<br/>of that operation.</p>
  403. <p begin="00:18:04.120" end="00:18:05.984">And same thing with John Vincent.</p>
  404. <p begin="00:18:05.984" end="00:18:07.734">So this is happening, </p>
  405. <p begin="00:18:07.734" end="00:18:10.861">and as I said, I keep saying,<br/>"Chicago," and "Chicago."</p>
  406. <p begin="00:18:10.861" end="00:18:12.625">Because with Plan B, with Gladio,</p>
  407. <p begin="00:18:12.625" end="00:18:15.905">a lot of the operational</p>
  408. <p begin="00:18:15.905" end="00:18:21.151">and logistic aspects of Gladio Plan B</p>
  409. <p begin="00:18:21.151" end="00:18:24.122">was being conducted <span tts:fontStyle="italic">from Chicago</span>.</p>
  410. <p begin="00:18:24.502" end="00:18:27.529">Chicago is the top, the best,</p>
  411. <p begin="00:18:27.529" end="00:18:30.443">the easiest city for money laundering,</p>
  412. <p begin="00:18:31.263" end="00:18:37.910">Because of <span tts:fontStyle="italic">huge</span> level of corruption<br/>within the local...</p>
  413. <p begin="00:18:37.910" end="00:18:39.525">the state government, Illinois,</p>
  414. <p begin="00:18:39.525" end="00:18:42.316">but also Chicago political figures.</p>
  415. <p begin="00:18:42.316" end="00:18:44.431">And again, it came out that <br/>Dennis Hastert</p>
  416. <p begin="00:18:44.431" end="00:18:47.175">-- very little of it has come out --</p>
  417. <p begin="00:18:47.175" end="00:18:49.671">but it is the easiest place to...</p>
  418. <p begin="00:18:50.171" end="00:18:53.063">for these operations, it's a very<br/>good base in the US.</p>
  419. <p begin="00:18:53.063" end="00:18:55.595">And I want to emphasize:<br/>one thing that I realized</p>
  420. <p begin="00:18:55.595" end="00:19:00.574">from some of the questions <span tts:fontStyle="italic">I</span> got <br/>on Gladio Plan B was that...</p>
  421. <p begin="00:19:00.574" end="00:19:04.979">how does it even...<br/>how can we even claim</p>
  422. <p begin="00:19:04.979" end="00:19:09.669">that US is involved with this, <br/>Gladio operations,</p>
  423. <p begin="00:19:09.669" end="00:19:11.878">because it was Italian?</p>
  424. <p begin="00:19:12.568" end="00:19:17.115">We... the United States,<br/>has an <span tts:fontStyle="italic">office</span> in the Pentagon.</p>
  425. <p begin="00:19:18.175" end="00:19:20.544">This office has a number,<br/>has a specific name.</p>
  426. <p begin="00:19:20.544" end="00:19:23.682">It's not called the<br/>"Gladio Plan B Office,"</p>
  427. <p begin="00:19:23.682" end="00:19:27.511">but it is a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">designated section</span><br/>in the Pentagon</p>
  428. <p begin="00:19:27.511" end="00:19:32.973">that <span tts:fontStyle="italic">only</span> deals with these <br/>Plan B operations for Gladio,</p>
  429. <p begin="00:19:32.973" end="00:19:35.674">which is the... via Turkish actors,</p>
  430. <p begin="00:19:35.674" end="00:19:38.196">and all the stuff we are doing <br/>in Caucasus.</p>
  431. <p begin="00:19:38.196" end="00:19:41.104">And before that, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">that same office</span></p>
  432. <p begin="00:19:41.104" end="00:19:44.378">-- physical office, section of Pentagon --</p>
  433. <p begin="00:19:44.378" end="00:19:47.910">dealt with the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">previous</span> operations<br/>of Gladio.</p>
  434. <p begin="00:19:47.910" end="00:19:52.788">Not only until 1989:<br/>all the way up to 1995, 1996.</p>
  435. <p begin="00:19:52.788" end="00:19:56.096">So there is actually <br/>a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">physical division</span>: an <span tts:fontStyle="italic">office</span>.</p>
  436. <p begin="00:19:56.145" end="00:19:59.036">So it's not some <span tts:fontStyle="italic">assumption</span>, <br/>or some <span tts:fontStyle="italic">conclusion</span>:</p>
  437. <p begin="00:19:59.036" end="00:20:02.322"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">There is an office.</span><br/>There is a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">division</span>, OK?</p>
  438. <p begin="00:20:03.429" end="00:20:05.147">Now, with Chicago:</p>
  439. <p begin="00:20:05.887" end="00:20:09.094">this is when I was working with the FBI,</p>
  440. <p begin="00:20:09.094" end="00:20:12.694">and you said October for Qadi<br/>leaving the United States.</p>
  441. <p begin="00:20:12.694" end="00:20:14.264">And again: he left;</p>
  442. <p begin="00:20:14.264" end="00:20:17.472">a lot of Bin Laden family members,<br/>business associates: </p>
  443. <p begin="00:20:17.472" end="00:20:19.307"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">they</span> left, without being questioned.</p>
  444. <p begin="00:20:19.307" end="00:20:21.147">Qadi was not questioned either.</p>
  445. <p begin="00:20:22.707" end="00:20:27.172">Starting from the two, three days <br/>after 9/11, </p>
  446. <p begin="00:20:27.172" end="00:20:31.354">we had this quota that we had to meet,<br/>the FBI had to meet.</p>
  447. <p begin="00:20:31.354" end="00:20:34.359">And that was to round up as many<br/>people as possible</p>
  448. <p begin="00:20:34.359" end="00:20:37.053">-- immigration violation, even <br/>the tiniest one --</p>
  449. <p begin="00:20:37.053" end="00:20:39.972">to show in the newspaper all the<br/>arrests we were making </p>
  450. <p begin="00:20:40.362" end="00:20:42.507">and interrogations that we were <br/>conducting. </p>
  451. <p begin="00:20:42.507" end="00:20:47.442">And these were nobody. This was some<br/>guy who violated a traffic rule.</p>
  452. <p begin="00:20:47.442" end="00:20:50.088">and they realized his Green Card <br/>was expired. (claps)</p>
  453. <p begin="00:20:50.088" end="00:20:53.977">"He's -- he may be involved in 9/11. <br/>We're gonna interrogate him."</p>
  454. <p begin="00:20:53.977" end="00:20:57.047">And taking all the resources<br/>away from the FBI,</p>
  455. <p begin="00:20:57.047" end="00:21:01.085">while you had all these top people<br/>with Bin Laden last names;</p>
  456. <p begin="00:21:01.085" end="00:21:04.203">Bin Laden's known associates; Qadi:</p>
  457. <p begin="00:21:04.203" end="00:21:07.666">nobody ever questioned them;<br/>nobody ever detained them.</p>
  458. <p begin="00:21:07.670" end="00:21:11.237">They just had their first-class tickets,<br/>or they had their private jets, <br/></p>
  459. <p begin="00:21:11.237" end="00:21:13.764">and they just were out of here when<br/>they wanted.</p>
  460. <p begin="00:21:14.074" end="00:21:16.213">Nobody touched them. OK?</p>
  461. <p begin="00:21:16.213" end="00:21:18.385">That's another very important side of,</p>
  462. <p begin="00:21:18.385" end="00:21:23.311">aspect of all this 9/11 enigma.</p>
  463. <p begin="00:21:23.311" end="00:21:27.153">So, this is when they are chasing</p>
  464. <p begin="00:21:27.153" end="00:21:33.692">-- in mid- to late-1990s, John Vincent <br/>and Agent Robert Wright --</p>
  465. <p begin="00:21:33.692" end="00:21:35.904">they are chasing Qadi</p>
  466. <p begin="00:21:35.904" end="00:21:38.214">under Counterterrorism Division.</p>
  467. <p begin="00:21:38.214" end="00:21:40.457">They were with Counterterrorism<br/>Division.</p>
  468. <p begin="00:21:40.457" end="00:21:43.919">But a lot of the work also involved...</p>
  469. <p begin="00:21:43.919" end="00:21:48.328">-- because it spilled over to the <br/>White-Collar Crime Division</p>
  470. <p begin="00:21:48.328" end="00:21:50.734">for the FBI Chicago Field Office.</p>
  471. <p begin="00:21:50.734" end="00:21:54.093">Because a lot of Qadi and <br/>these terrorists</p>
  472. <p begin="00:21:54.673" end="00:21:56.218">-- so-called terrorists --</p>
  473. <p begin="00:21:56.218" end="00:21:57.616">they were also involved</p>
  474. <p begin="00:21:57.616" end="00:21:59.579">in a massive amount of <br/>money laundering,</p>
  475. <p begin="00:21:59.579" end="00:22:02.018">and there were a lot of financial <br/>aspects of it.</p>
  476. <p begin="00:22:02.018" end="00:22:05.072">So you have Chicago Counterterrorism<br/>involved with this;</p>
  477. <p begin="00:22:05.072" end="00:22:09.208">you have Chicago White-Collar Crime<br/>Division involved with this.</p>
  478. <p begin="00:22:09.208" end="00:22:11.799">Meanwhile, I'm in Washington, DC.</p>
  479. <p begin="00:22:11.799" end="00:22:15.071">The main operation I'm translating<br/>for has to do</p>
  480. <p begin="00:22:15.071" end="00:22:19.419">with the Washington, DC Field Office's<br/>Turkish counterintelligence, </p>
  481. <p begin="00:22:19.419" end="00:22:21.123">Agent Dennis Saccher.</p>
  482. <p begin="00:22:21.123" end="00:22:24.544">Again, if you read... if you have read my <br/>book, or if you read my book, </p>
  483. <p begin="00:22:24.544" end="00:22:27.866">you will see all the detailed<br/>description of this.</p>
  484. <p begin="00:22:27.866" end="00:22:31.726">However, because I was the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">only one</span><br/>translating</p>
  485. <p begin="00:22:31.726" end="00:22:34.730">for Turkish and Turkic languages,</p>
  486. <p begin="00:22:34.730" end="00:22:37.896">I also worked with field agents</p>
  487. <p begin="00:22:37.896" end="00:22:42.628">from other cities and towns</p>
  488. <p begin="00:22:42.628" end="00:22:45.994">-- and that included Chicago in Illinois.</p>
  489. <p begin="00:22:45.994" end="00:22:52.256">And that became my second-biggest <br/>case that I was working with;</p>
  490. <p begin="00:22:52.256" end="00:22:54.821">and that was with Agent Joel Roberts.</p>
  491. <p begin="00:22:54.821" end="00:22:57.198">And this guy, he was not with</p>
  492. <p begin="00:22:57.198" end="00:22:59.218">the Counterterrorism Division<br/>in Chicago.</p>
  493. <p begin="00:22:59.218" end="00:23:04.333">He had <span tts:fontStyle="italic">his</span> case that he's been chasing<br/>since 1996 in Chicago,</p>
  494. <p begin="00:23:04.333" end="00:23:08.317"> but that was under <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Turkish</span><br/>Counterintelligence,</p>
  495. <p begin="00:23:08.317" end="00:23:11.117">with targets that were... [laughs] <br/>-- included --</p>
  496. <p begin="00:23:11.123" end="00:23:13.166">the person we discussed here:</p>
  497. <p begin="00:23:13.166" end="00:23:15.965">Abdullah &#199;atl&#305;, who was living <br/>in Chicago,</p>
  498. <p begin="00:23:15.965" end="00:23:17.405">and &#199;atl&#305;'s associates.</p>
  499. <p begin="00:23:17.405" end="00:23:19.932">These are all NATO Plan B,</p>
  500. <p begin="00:23:19.932" end="00:23:23.274">Gladio Plan B operatives that</p>
  501. <p begin="00:23:23.274" end="00:23:26.205">were doing a lot of things in Chicago,</p>
  502. <p begin="00:23:26.205" end="00:23:27.923">and they had their base in Chicago.</p>
  503. <p begin="00:23:27.923" end="00:23:30.560">And we discussed that:<br/>they went to Xinjiang from there;</p>
  504. <p begin="00:23:30.560" end="00:23:33.135">they went to Azerbaijan<br/>for assassination attempt.</p>
  505. <p begin="00:23:34.625" end="00:23:38.579">So while these agents in Chicago<br/>for Turkish Counterintelligence</p>
  506. <p begin="00:23:38.579" end="00:23:41.361">-- they are chasing these <br/>Turkish terrorists,</p>
  507. <p begin="00:23:41.361" end="00:23:45.826">narcotics, criminal, espionage <br/>entities --</p>
  508. <p begin="00:23:45.826" end="00:23:47.801">a lot of that overlaps </p>
  509. <p begin="00:23:47.801" end="00:23:52.898">with what Agent Wright and John<br/>Vincent were chasing with al-Qadi,</p>
  510. <p begin="00:23:52.898" end="00:23:56.353">and these were the mostly <br/>Arabic-speaking</p>
  511. <p begin="00:23:56.353" end="00:24:01.657">and Saudi Arabia-rooted individuals<br/>who have...</p>
  512. <p begin="00:24:01.657" end="00:24:03.398">again, there were a bunch of things.</p>
  513. <p begin="00:24:03.398" end="00:24:04.883">There were financial crimes,</p>
  514. <p begin="00:24:04.883" end="00:24:07.323">terrorism-related, et cetera.</p>
  515. <p begin="00:24:07.323" end="00:24:12.986">In Washington, DC, again, it was<br/>certain diplomatic targets with Turkey.</p>
  516. <p begin="00:24:12.986" end="00:24:14.686">Those overlap.</p>
  517. <p begin="00:24:14.686" end="00:24:19.682">So the most important thing<br/>for people to get in this is:</p>
  518. <p begin="00:24:19.695" end="00:24:23.218">we are not even looking at<br/>one big investigation,</p>
  519. <p begin="00:24:23.218" end="00:24:25.293">all these agents working together.</p>
  520. <p begin="00:24:25.503" end="00:24:28.087">They were chopped up and divided.</p>
  521. <p begin="00:24:28.807" end="00:24:32.788">But because I worked in the <br/>central place,</p>
  522. <p begin="00:24:32.788" end="00:24:35.375">and even other field offices</p>
  523. <p begin="00:24:35.375" end="00:24:37.675">-- whether it's someone <br/>in Illinois, Chicago,</p>
  524. <p begin="00:24:37.675" end="00:24:39.069">or someone from New Jersey --</p>
  525. <p begin="00:24:39.069" end="00:24:41.388">they were sending <span tts:fontStyle="italic">their</span> material <br/>to me</p>
  526. <p begin="00:24:41.388" end="00:24:44.841">-- or the Turkic portion of it,<br/>or Turkey-related portion of it --</p>
  527. <p begin="00:24:44.841" end="00:24:49.109">I was in this position to see<br/>all the dots being connected,</p>
  528. <p begin="00:24:49.109" end="00:24:51.017">and going to my agent and saying...</p>
  529. <p begin="00:24:51.017" end="00:24:53.069">-- to Dennis Saccher in <br/>Washington DC --</p>
  530. <p begin="00:24:53.069" end="00:24:57.975">and saying, "You may want to talk with<br/>this guy, Robert Wright,"</p>
  531. <p begin="00:24:57.975" end="00:24:59.991">"or Joel Roberts in Chicago,"</p>
  532. <p begin="00:24:59.991" end="00:25:04.656">"because they have the other pieces<br/>of what you're working on."</p>
  533. <p begin="00:25:04.656" end="00:25:08.646">And that's exactly what took place<br/>with some of these investigations,</p>
  534. <p begin="00:25:08.646" end="00:25:10.252">these agents, while I was there.</p>
  535. <p begin="00:25:10.252" end="00:25:14.284">Because I was the central person,<br/>they started connecting the dots.</p>
  536. <p begin="00:25:14.284" end="00:25:17.732">So I'll leave it here before I make<br/>things more complicated.</p>
  537. <p begin="00:25:17.982" end="00:25:21.046">All right. Well, let's focus on...</p>
  538. <p begin="00:25:22.176" end="00:25:24.944">the national aspect of this.</p>
  539. <p begin="00:25:24.944" end="00:25:27.383">Of course, you were looking specifically<br/>at Turkic, </p>
  540. <p begin="00:25:27.383" end="00:25:30.047">Turkish diplomatic targets of the FBI,</p>
  541. <p begin="00:25:30.047" end="00:25:31.857">and that was related to some of this.</p>
  542. <p begin="00:25:31.857" end="00:25:34.638">But you mentioned that al-Qadi<br/>had an Albanian passport.</p>
  543. <p begin="00:25:34.638" end="00:25:36.429">Is that particularly relevant?</p>
  544. <p begin="00:25:36.429" end="00:25:38.096">Uh, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">yes</span>. It is.</p>
  545. <p begin="00:25:38.096" end="00:25:40.414">Because -- <span tts:fontStyle="italic">absolutely</span>.</p>
  546. <p begin="00:25:40.414" end="00:25:43.565">Because... same whether it's<br/>Abdullah &#199;atl&#305;,</p>
  547. <p begin="00:25:43.565" end="00:25:45.361">whether it's al-Qadi,</p>
  548. <p begin="00:25:45.361" end="00:25:50.492">whether it was some of these<br/>other Turkey... Turkish <span tts:fontStyle="italic">NATO operatives</span></p>
  549. <p begin="00:25:50.492" end="00:25:54.280"> that we were monitoring within the FBI.</p>
  550. <p begin="00:25:55.280" end="00:25:58.298">In... between early 1990s</p>
  551. <p begin="00:25:58.298" end="00:26:00.774">till about 1996, '97,</p>
  552. <p begin="00:26:00.774" end="00:26:05.367">the biggest focus of these operatives<br/>was on the Balkans.</p>
  553. <p begin="00:26:05.367" end="00:26:07.664">And we know what was happening <br/>during this time:</p>
  554. <p begin="00:26:07.664" end="00:26:09.572">we had Bosnia, we had Kosovo.</p>
  555. <p begin="00:26:09.572" end="00:26:13.906">I mean, this was when these <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">mujahideen</span>s were being mysteriously...</p>
  556. <p begin="00:26:13.906" end="00:26:15.919">-- nobody ever gets into the details --</p>
  557. <p begin="00:26:15.919" end="00:26:18.457">they cross the borders and<br/>they end up in the Balkans.</p>
  558. <p begin="00:26:18.457" end="00:26:20.391">How do they end up in the Balkans?</p>
  559. <p begin="00:26:20.391" end="00:26:23.722">Coming from Pakistan, Egypt,</p>
  560. <p begin="00:26:23.722" end="00:26:27.025">Saudi Arabia, via Turkey</p>
  561. <p begin="00:26:27.025" end="00:26:29.764">into this region and fighting.</p>
  562. <p begin="00:26:29.764" end="00:26:32.583">So... and this was...</p>
  563. <p begin="00:26:32.583" end="00:26:34.638">when I say they are all connected,</p>
  564. <p begin="00:26:34.638" end="00:26:36.765">Abdullah &#199;atl&#305; and Qadi,</p>
  565. <p begin="00:26:36.765" end="00:26:39.220">well, a lot of the focus</p>
  566. <p begin="00:26:39.220" end="00:26:42.651">during that early portion of mid-1990s</p>
  567. <p begin="00:26:42.651" end="00:26:44.688"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">was</span> on the Balkans.</p>
  568. <p begin="00:26:44.688" end="00:26:46.933">And this was when these individuals</p>
  569. <p begin="00:26:46.933" end="00:26:50.237"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">were</span> going to that region <br/>and coming back,</p>
  570. <p begin="00:26:50.237" end="00:26:53.894">and the networks were <span tts:fontStyle="italic">bringing</span><br/>these <span tts:fontStyle="italic">mujahideens</span></p>
  571. <p begin="00:26:53.894" end="00:26:56.896">-- not al-Qaeda, they were <br/>not called al-Qaeda --</p>
  572. <p begin="00:26:56.906" end="00:26:59.295">from those regions into...</p>
  573. <p begin="00:26:59.295" end="00:27:02.940">And if you look at...<br/>later, to Fethullah G&#252;len,</p>
  574. <p begin="00:27:02.940" end="00:27:04.752">and <span tts:fontStyle="italic">madrasas</span> and mosques by him,</p>
  575. <p begin="00:27:04.752" end="00:27:08.837">again, you will see Fethullah G&#252;len<br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">all over</span> this region.</p>
  576. <p begin="00:27:08.837" end="00:27:10.403">Same thing.</p>
  577. <p begin="00:27:10.403" end="00:27:12.386">And another interesting aspect is,</p>
  578. <p begin="00:27:12.386" end="00:27:14.670">this is the period of time where</p>
  579. <p begin="00:27:14.670" end="00:27:18.906">a lot of Albanians poured<br/>into the United States.</p>
  580. <p begin="00:27:19.436" end="00:27:24.142">And this was when they started<br/>really establishing themselves</p>
  581. <p begin="00:27:24.142" end="00:27:27.374">as the most ferocious </p>
  582. <p begin="00:27:27.374" end="00:27:31.946">and strongest mafias in <br/>the United States.</p>
  583. <p begin="00:27:32.136" end="00:27:35.589">And again, a lot of <span tts:fontStyle="italic">their</span> activities</p>
  584. <p begin="00:27:35.589" end="00:27:37.648">were centered in <br/>-- where? --</p>
  585. <p begin="00:27:37.648" end="00:27:39.463">Chicago.</p>
  586. <p begin="00:27:39.463" end="00:27:44.830">Because the network that brought<br/>the heroin to Europe,</p>
  587. <p begin="00:27:44.830" end="00:27:46.827">it was Turkish-Albanian network.</p>
  588. <p begin="00:27:46.827" end="00:27:49.139">So this is...<br/>once it comes out of Turkey,</p>
  589. <p begin="00:27:49.139" end="00:27:52.453">it goes into the Balkans; it goes through <br/>Brussels; it goes to Egypt; but then </p>
  590. <p begin="00:27:52.453" end="00:27:56.244">it comes to the United States. United <br/>States is a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">huge</span> market for heroin.</p>
  591. <p begin="00:27:56.244" end="00:27:59.435">And if you look at this particular period, </p>
  592. <p begin="00:27:59.435" end="00:28:02.327">you would see the top mafia operators</p>
  593. <p begin="00:28:02.327" end="00:28:04.319">in the United States were Albanians.</p>
  594. <p begin="00:28:04.319" end="00:28:05.861">And this was when Italians said,</p>
  595. <p begin="00:28:05.861" end="00:28:10.358">"Well, even we don't -- or won't -- <br/>mess with these Albanians."</p>
  596. <p begin="00:28:10.358" end="00:28:12.677">Well, who are these Albanians, exactly?</p>
  597. <p begin="00:28:12.677" end="00:28:14.685">And how were they able to bring...</p>
  598. <p begin="00:28:14.685" end="00:28:17.112">and how come every time we...</p>
  599. <p begin="00:28:17.112" end="00:28:20.442">-- the FBI, together and sometimes <br/>jointly with DEA --</p>
  600. <p begin="00:28:20.442" end="00:28:22.026">there would be an operation,</p>
  601. <p begin="00:28:22.256" end="00:28:24.764">they would go completely untouched?</p>
  602. <p begin="00:28:25.694" end="00:28:27.152">Untouched, whether...</p>
  603. <p begin="00:28:27.152" end="00:28:31.102">when the actors involved were Turkish,<br/>or they were Albanians.</p>
  604. <p begin="00:28:31.102" end="00:28:34.546">Now, with Turkish actors, <br/>we had several incidents</p>
  605. <p begin="00:28:34.546" end="00:28:36.109">while I was in the FBI.</p>
  606. <p begin="00:28:36.109" end="00:28:39.124">There would be a joint sting operation,</p>
  607. <p begin="00:28:39.534" end="00:28:43.847">They're gonna have a bust: and this is <br/>FBI and DEA, joint operations.</p>
  608. <p begin="00:28:43.847" end="00:28:46.286">They know the location,<br/>they know the actors,</p>
  609. <p begin="00:28:46.286" end="00:28:48.686">and 9:30 AM, they're gonna be there.</p>
  610. <p begin="00:28:48.686" end="00:28:50.497">They're gonna bust these guys, right?</p>
  611. <p begin="00:28:50.497" end="00:28:52.769">They get into their SUVs and the vans</p>
  612. <p begin="00:28:52.769" end="00:28:56.373">-- and this includes my agents,<br/>some of the agents <span tts:fontStyle="italic">I</span> work with --</p>
  613. <p begin="00:28:57.143" end="00:28:59.327">they're gonna meet their DEA counterparts</p>
  614. <p begin="00:28:59.327" end="00:29:01.369">and make the bust, right?</p>
  615. <p begin="00:29:01.839" end="00:29:03.424">15 minutes before the bust,</p>
  616. <p begin="00:29:03.424" end="00:29:04.773">while they are on the way,</p>
  617. <p begin="00:29:04.773" end="00:29:08.672">they get a call from the top tier, <br/>top layer in the FBI</p>
  618. <p begin="00:29:08.672" end="00:29:10.171">saying, "Operation finished."</p>
  619. <p begin="00:29:10.171" end="00:29:13.320">"Over.<br/>Come back to the office,"</p>
  620. <p begin="00:29:13.320" end="00:29:15.177">"and get the DEA's guys off this."</p>
  621. <p begin="00:29:16.447" end="00:29:20.309">And the agents would be absolutely <span tts:fontStyle="italic">livid</span>,</p>
  622. <p begin="00:29:20.309" end="00:29:23.261">saying, "What!" and "Why?"</p>
  623. <p begin="00:29:23.261" end="00:29:28.711">"Well, it's because the State Department<br/>told us they have diplomatic immunities,"</p>
  624. <p begin="00:29:28.711" end="00:29:31.016">"and it will be a diplomatic incident."</p>
  625. <p begin="00:29:31.456" end="00:29:34.935">Now, the first question people<br/>should ask is:</p>
  626. <p begin="00:29:34.935" end="00:29:37.515">how in the world did the CIA</p>
  627. <p begin="00:29:37.515" end="00:29:39.375">and the State Department in each case,</p>
  628. <p begin="00:29:39.375" end="00:29:43.958">how did they find out about the fact<br/>that we were monitoring them</p>
  629. <p begin="00:29:43.958" end="00:29:46.195">and there would be a <br/>sting operation, right?</p>
  630. <p begin="00:29:46.195" end="00:29:48.601">And this is, again, another topic</p>
  631. <p begin="00:29:48.601" end="00:29:50.204">that is not really talked about,</p>
  632. <p begin="00:29:50.204" end="00:29:52.267">and that is Colleen Rowley.</p>
  633. <p begin="00:29:52.267" end="00:29:55.541">And one of the things, maybe,<br/>we will do for this video:</p>
  634. <p begin="00:29:55.541" end="00:29:58.107">I will find that interview...</p>
  635. <p begin="00:29:58.107" end="00:29:59.695">-- or, the article --</p>
  636. <p begin="00:29:59.695" end="00:30:01.536">where Colleen Rowley came and said,</p>
  637. <p begin="00:30:01.536" end="00:30:06.601">"I'm not joking: I believe, in FBI,<br/>there were so many moles;"</p>
  638. <p begin="00:30:06.601" end="00:30:10.622">"and some of these moles were <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">al-Qaeda-related</span> moles:"</p>
  639. <p begin="00:30:10.622" end="00:30:14.536">"because that's the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">only explanation</span><br/>I have been able to come up with."</p>
  640. <p begin="00:30:14.536" end="00:30:16.452">And this is Colleen Rowley's, OK?</p>
  641. <p begin="00:30:16.452" end="00:30:19.083">-- senior FBI, currently retired --</p>
  642. <p begin="00:30:19.083" end="00:30:20.350"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">her</span> quote.</p>
  643. <p begin="00:30:20.790" end="00:30:23.888">Well, that was the thing:<br/>we had the moles;</p>
  644. <p begin="00:30:23.888" end="00:30:28.460">and people immediately assumed<br/>they would be Russian moles...</p>
  645. <p begin="00:30:28.460" end="00:30:31.726">I mean, even with this Jan Dickerson<br/>case: Turkish moles?</p>
  646. <p begin="00:30:31.726" end="00:30:34.649">These are the moles who work <br/>for foreign governments.</p>
  647. <p begin="00:30:35.119" end="00:30:37.320">That's not... that was not the case.</p>
  648. <p begin="00:30:37.320" end="00:30:40.164">Or in <span tts:fontStyle="italic">these</span> cases, that was not the case.</p>
  649. <p begin="00:30:40.164" end="00:30:43.029">Because in <span tts:fontStyle="italic">these</span> cases, we had moles</p>
  650. <p begin="00:30:43.029" end="00:30:45.236">-- whether within the management,<br/>within the...</p>
  651. <p begin="00:30:45.236" end="00:30:48.965">whether within the headquarters,<br/>or within the translation divisions --</p>
  652. <p begin="00:30:48.965" end="00:30:51.216">that were placed there strategically</p>
  653. <p begin="00:30:51.216" end="00:30:53.318">by the State Department and the CIA.</p>
  654. <p begin="00:30:53.318" end="00:30:57.543">CIA wanted to know at any given <br/>moment what FBI was doing,</p>
  655. <p begin="00:30:57.543" end="00:31:00.461">how much they had, and what they <br/>were planning to do.</p>
  656. <p begin="00:31:01.011" end="00:31:02.008">On the other hand,</p>
  657. <p begin="00:31:02.008" end="00:31:03.764">if you look the other way and say,</p>
  658. <p begin="00:31:03.764" end="00:31:07.274">"How many people from the FBI<br/>had penetrated the CIA?"</p>
  659. <p begin="00:31:07.274" end="00:31:10.043">you would get this:<br/>Zilch. Zero.</p>
  660. <p begin="00:31:10.043" end="00:31:12.784">So, right: there's a sting operation --</p>
  661. <p begin="00:31:13.314" end="00:31:17.532">-- maybe maximum of six, seven,<br/>ten people know about this --</p>
  662. <p begin="00:31:17.532" end="00:31:20.821">and the top-layer guy in the FBI says,</p>
  663. <p begin="00:31:20.821" end="00:31:22.888">"You're coming back to the headquarters."</p>
  664. <p begin="00:31:22.888" end="00:31:25.190">"We are calling off the operations. <br/>They have..."</p>
  665. <p begin="00:31:25.190" end="00:31:27.074">-- the targets that you're <br/>about to bust --</p>
  666. <p begin="00:31:27.074" end="00:31:30.283">"they have diplomatic immunities."<br/>"Who said that?" "State Department."</p>
  667. <p begin="00:31:30.283" end="00:31:32.515">"How does State Department know?"</p>
  668. <p begin="00:31:32.515" end="00:31:36.152">There is nothing there.<br/>No explanation on that.</p>
  669. <p begin="00:31:38.242" end="00:31:40.565">How many DEA agents know about this?</p>
  670. <p begin="00:31:40.565" end="00:31:43.549">I would say at least a dozen of DEA<br/>agents today </p>
  671. <p begin="00:31:43.549" end="00:31:47.108">would tell you about several incidents <br/>where the State Department, CIA</p>
  672. <p begin="00:31:47.108" end="00:31:49.011">would come and prevent their operations,</p>
  673. <p begin="00:31:49.011" end="00:31:51.468">when they would get close in the<br/>sting operations.</p>
  674. <p begin="00:31:52.101" end="00:31:53.815">They would tell me about cases</p>
  675. <p begin="00:31:53.815" end="00:31:55.515">where the CIA, State Department,</p>
  676. <p begin="00:31:55.515" end="00:31:59.048">would actually go <span tts:fontStyle="italic">tip off the targets</span></p>
  677. <p begin="00:31:59.048" end="00:32:02.195">that the DEA was after, or the FBI.</p>
  678. <p begin="00:32:02.415" end="00:32:04.057">There are dozens of cases:</p>
  679. <p begin="00:32:04.057" end="00:32:06.470">not only within the Turkish department,<br/>but in...</p>
  680. <p begin="00:32:06.470" end="00:32:10.316">-- and I do have many DEA, <br/>former DEA agents --</p>
  681. <p begin="00:32:10.316" end="00:32:12.229">it's a norm. It would...</p>
  682. <p begin="00:32:12.229" end="00:32:15.303">if you were to ask senior DEA agents,</p>
  683. <p begin="00:32:15.303" end="00:32:19.013">the biggest enemies you have<br/>in doing your job</p>
  684. <p begin="00:32:19.135" end="00:32:22.964">-- preventing you from going <br/>after the big guys or doing real busts;</p>
  685. <p begin="00:32:22.964" end="00:32:25.294">I'm not talking about street-level<br/>drug dealers --</p>
  686. <p begin="00:32:25.294" end="00:32:28.396">they would tell you,<br/>"Yeah, State Department; a.k.a. CIA."</p>
  687. <p begin="00:32:29.415" end="00:32:31.170">I can <span tts:fontStyle="italic">guarantee</span> you that.</p>
  688. <p begin="00:32:31.170" end="00:32:34.108">And same thing was the case <br/>with the FBI.</p>
  689. <p begin="00:32:34.108" end="00:32:40.030">So basically, that was what was <br/>happening with...</p>
  690. <p begin="00:32:40.030" end="00:32:41.403">whether it was narcotics...</p>
  691. <p begin="00:32:41.403" end="00:32:43.475">when I all along kept saying...</p>
  692. <p begin="00:32:43.475" end="00:32:46.928">Look, as a whistleblower, they try<br/>to portray you</p>
  693. <p begin="00:32:46.928" end="00:32:50.000">as someone who has... who's disgruntled.</p>
  694. <p begin="00:32:50.000" end="00:32:52.203">And you're going after your bosses</p>
  695. <p begin="00:32:52.203" end="00:32:55.873">who fired you or didn't promote you.</p>
  696. <p begin="00:32:55.873" end="00:32:57.491">If you look at my case</p>
  697. <p begin="00:32:57.491" end="00:32:59.228">-- I mean, in the book, you will see</p>
  698. <p begin="00:32:59.228" end="00:33:02.542">some stupid little bureaucrat<br/>like Mike Feghali --</p>
  699. <p begin="00:33:02.542" end="00:33:04.656">and my answer is saying <br/>he was a nobody.</p>
  700. <p begin="00:33:04.656" end="00:33:07.964">He was a little guy with some <br/>bureaucratic psychosis, OK?</p>
  701. <p begin="00:33:08.764" end="00:33:13.030">I kept saying that the people who <br/>came with the state secrets privilege,</p>
  702. <p begin="00:33:13.030" end="00:33:15.191">-- the people who prevented <br/>our investigations --</p>
  703. <p begin="00:33:15.191" end="00:33:18.052">were State Department, CIA.<br/>State Department, CIA:</p>
  704. <p begin="00:33:18.052" end="00:33:20.051">well, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">they</span> didn't fire me!</p>
  705. <p begin="00:33:20.051" end="00:33:22.547">If you look at some of <br/>the individuals' names</p>
  706. <p begin="00:33:22.547" end="00:33:24.369">that kept coming out during my case...</p>
  707. <p begin="00:33:24.369" end="00:33:27.342">-- Marc Grossman: well, what did <br/>Marc Grossman do to me?</p>
  708. <p begin="00:33:27.342" end="00:33:30.245">I have never met this guy face-to-face.</p>
  709. <p begin="00:33:30.245" end="00:33:32.891">And you would think, why would somebody...</p>
  710. <p begin="00:33:32.891" end="00:33:37.310">-- he didn't fire me; he didn't demote <br/>me; he didn't have anything to do </p>
  711. <p begin="00:33:37.310" end="00:33:41.809">with all the torture I was put through <br/>in the FBI before I was fired --</p>
  712. <p begin="00:33:41.809" end="00:33:43.988">why in the world I would name people</p>
  713. <p begin="00:33:43.988" end="00:33:47.416">like Dennis Hastert or Marc Grossman?</p>
  714. <p begin="00:33:47.416" end="00:33:50.501">Yet if I want to go and get revenge</p>
  715. <p begin="00:33:50.501" end="00:33:54.086">-- or if I'm after revenge <br/>or I'm disgruntled --</p>
  716. <p begin="00:33:54.086" end="00:33:57.123">I'll be going after the guys<br/>like Muellers, and...</p>
  717. <p begin="00:33:57.123" end="00:33:59.966">or, even beneath them, Feghali.</p>
  718. <p begin="00:33:59.966" end="00:34:03.183">But all along I've been saying, with 9/11</p>
  719. <p begin="00:34:03.183" end="00:34:05.981">-- before, after, during --</p>
  720. <p begin="00:34:05.981" end="00:34:07.614">we were the FBI. </p>
  721. <p begin="00:34:07.614" end="00:34:11.898">I know FBI does a lot of bad things now<br/>with civil liberties-related issues.</p>
  722. <p begin="00:34:11.898" end="00:34:14.229">But when it comes to terrorism<br/>and criminal stuff,</p>
  723. <p begin="00:34:14.229" end="00:34:16.642">it was always the State Department <br/>and the CIA.</p>
  724. <p begin="00:34:17.172" end="00:34:20.059">You were putting a lot on the line by</p>
  725. <p begin="00:34:20.059" end="00:34:23.110">even bringing up these people <br/>and doing this.</p>
  726. <p begin="00:34:23.110" end="00:34:27.732">So for people who are on<br/>the outside of this looking in,</p>
  727. <p begin="00:34:27.732" end="00:34:30.414">what are the ways that they can start</p>
  728. <p begin="00:34:30.414" end="00:34:32.857">to put some of these pieces together</p>
  729. <p begin="00:34:32.857" end="00:34:34.924">from the sources that are<br/>already out there?</p>
  730. <p begin="00:34:34.924" end="00:34:37.138">Because a lot of these pieces<br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">are</span> on the table</p>
  731. <p begin="00:34:37.148" end="00:34:39.354">and all they need to do is <br/>to be put together.</p>
  732. <p begin="00:34:39.354" end="00:34:42.119">So how do we start linking names<br/>like this from the outside</p>
  733. <p begin="00:34:42.119" end="00:34:44.764">with the publicly-available information <br/>that we have?</p>
  734. <p begin="00:34:44.764" end="00:34:47.603">As you said, with research.</p>
  735. <p begin="00:34:47.603" end="00:34:50.066">For example, one of the things<br/>I tried to do...</p>
  736. <p begin="00:34:50.066" end="00:34:51.964">that's how we actually ended up</p>
  737. <p begin="00:34:51.964" end="00:34:56.153">organizing ourselves as National <br/>Security Whistleblowers Coalition.</p>
  738. <p begin="00:34:56.153" end="00:34:58.629">What brought us together was,</p>
  739. <p begin="00:34:58.629" end="00:35:00.724">I took that [9/11] commissioners' report.</p>
  740. <p begin="00:35:00.724" end="00:35:05.183">And I said, "This is <span tts:fontStyle="italic">bull!</span> "</p>
  741. <p begin="00:35:05.783" end="00:35:09.350">And so many facts had been <br/>intentionally omitted,</p>
  742. <p begin="00:35:09.350" end="00:35:10.916">the ones that were given to them.</p>
  743. <p begin="00:35:10.916" end="00:35:13.491">Or people were prevented by <br/>the Commission themselves:</p>
  744. <p begin="00:35:13.491" end="00:35:16.200">"Don't give us this fact. We are not<br/>gonna interview you."</p>
  745. <p begin="00:35:16.200" end="00:35:20.278"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Time Magazine</span>'s Woman of the Year,<br/>Colleen Rowley, right?</p>
  746. <p begin="00:35:20.278" end="00:35:23.485">With Moussaoui, Zacarias Moussaoui <br/>case:</p>
  747. <p begin="00:35:23.485" end="00:35:27.182"> 2002, she became well-known.</p>
  748. <p begin="00:35:27.182" end="00:35:30.830">Well, this was even before<br/>9/11 Commission had <span tts:fontStyle="italic">started</span>.</p>
  749. <p begin="00:35:30.830" end="00:35:33.671">9/11 Commission didn't interview <br/>Colleen Rowley.</p>
  750. <p begin="00:35:33.671" end="00:35:36.003">They said they were not going to<br/>interview her.</p>
  751. <p begin="00:35:36.233" end="00:35:39.453">And, as you said, Robert Wright;<br/>John Vincent.</p>
  752. <p begin="00:35:39.453" end="00:35:41.093">So what I did was:</p>
  753. <p begin="00:35:41.093" end="00:35:44.145">during my own case, I started meeting</p>
  754. <p begin="00:35:44.145" end="00:35:46.054">and coming across these high-level</p>
  755. <p begin="00:35:46.054" end="00:35:48.971">-- not like me, I was just a language <br/>specialist in the FBI</p>
  756. <p begin="00:35:48.971" end="00:35:50.781">for six, seven months --</p>
  757. <p begin="00:35:51.011" end="00:35:54.857">these were the people with the FBI<br/>for 25 years, 20 years:</p>
  758. <p begin="00:35:54.857" end="00:35:57.673">high-level agents, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">senior</span> agents,</p>
  759. <p begin="00:35:57.673" end="00:36:00.292">whether it's DEA or the FBI. </p>
  760. <p begin="00:36:00.292" end="00:36:05.677">Well, initially it was <br/>10, 11, 12, 13 of us,</p>
  761. <p begin="00:36:05.677" end="00:36:10.207">and before long there were like 70, <br/>65-70 of us.</p>
  762. <p begin="00:36:10.517" end="00:36:14.920">I said, "I'm going to go, I'm gonna say<br/>there is a press conference."</p>
  763. <p begin="00:36:14.920" end="00:36:16.755">"I'm gonna throw this in the trash can."</p>
  764. <p begin="00:36:16.755" end="00:36:20.643">And I'm gonna tell the media that<br/>I went to them; I took them documents;</p>
  765. <p begin="00:36:20.653" end="00:36:25.098">I took them specific file information;<br/>I took them names of witnesses </p>
  766. <p begin="00:36:25.098" end="00:36:27.330">including informants, because<br/>they have clearance</p>
  767. <p begin="00:36:27.330" end="00:36:29.926">-- and these are the 9/11<br/>Commission investigators,</p>
  768. <p begin="00:36:29.926" end="00:36:31.702">they all had Top Secret clearance --</p>
  769. <p begin="00:36:31.702" end="00:36:34.641">meaning that was when, inside a SCIF,</p>
  770. <p begin="00:36:34.641" end="00:36:36.774">I could give them detailed information.</p>
  771. <p begin="00:36:36.774" end="00:36:39.542">I would never, right now, talk about <br/>some informant's name. </p>
  772. <p begin="00:36:39.542" end="00:36:41.041">That would be nefarious,</p>
  773. <p begin="00:36:41.041" end="00:36:44.834">Even if that person is a scumbag,<br/>I'm gonna cause his death, or her death:</p>
  774. <p begin="00:36:44.834" end="00:36:45.885">I'm not gonna do that.</p>
  775. <p begin="00:36:45.885" end="00:36:50.330">I did it with 9/11 Commissioners,<br/>because I went inside the SCIF;</p>
  776. <p begin="00:36:50.330" end="00:36:53.296">and the protocol says,<br/>"Look, they have clearance."</p>
  777. <p begin="00:36:53.296" end="00:36:55.470">I can even give them the phone number,</p>
  778. <p begin="00:36:55.470" end="00:36:58.435">the address of the informants <br/>and everything.</p>
  779. <p begin="00:36:58.435" end="00:37:02.237">So I did. It's not here;<br/>it says, "deferred to the IG."</p>
  780. <p begin="00:37:02.237" end="00:37:04.981">IG investigation was <span tts:fontStyle="italic">already</span><br/>completely classified.</p>
  781. <p begin="00:37:05.861" end="00:37:07.546">Well, all these agents joined me.</p>
  782. <p begin="00:37:07.546" end="00:37:09.715">They said, "We want to do the <br/>same thing."</p>
  783. <p begin="00:37:09.715" end="00:37:11.648">So during that press conference</p>
  784. <p begin="00:37:11.648" end="00:37:14.315">they all came and they stood <br/>right next to me</p>
  785. <p begin="00:37:14.315" end="00:37:16.096">and they did the same thing.</p>
  786. <p begin="00:37:16.096" end="00:37:17.725">These are the senior agents:</p>
  787. <p begin="00:37:17.725" end="00:37:21.299">FBI, DEA, Pentagon.</p>
  788. <p begin="00:37:22.589" end="00:37:26.528">So that's... and I released the report</p>
  789. <p begin="00:37:26.528" end="00:37:28.202">-- people can go and research --</p>
  790. <p begin="00:37:28.202" end="00:37:30.791">and it lists their names. Whether...</p>
  791. <p begin="00:37:30.791" end="00:37:33.157">there's Tony Shaffer with Able Danger</p>
  792. <p begin="00:37:33.157" end="00:37:35.184">that nobody has an answer to this day;</p>
  793. <p begin="00:37:35.184" end="00:37:38.383">whether it's John Vincent<br/>and Agent Wright;</p>
  794. <p begin="00:37:38.383" end="00:37:40.339">whether it's Colleen Rowley:</p>
  795. <p begin="00:37:40.339" end="00:37:41.772">they're all on that list.</p>
  796. <p begin="00:37:41.772" end="00:37:43.245">People who came and said,</p>
  797. <p begin="00:37:43.245" end="00:37:47.115">"It's a huge cover-up. All this <br/>information has been omitted."</p>
  798. <p begin="00:37:47.115" end="00:37:52.070">And this information <span tts:fontStyle="italic">includes</span> moles <br/>in the FBI</p>
  799. <p begin="00:37:52.070" end="00:37:54.168">from the CIA and the State Department.</p>
  800. <p begin="00:37:54.168" end="00:37:58.204">It <span tts:fontStyle="italic">includes</span> the terabytes of data <br/>being destroyed.</p>
  801. <p begin="00:37:58.204" end="00:38:00.564">It... and these people would testify <br/>under oath.</p>
  802. <p begin="00:38:00.564" end="00:38:02.618">As I said, these are not disgrunt--...</p>
  803. <p begin="00:38:02.618" end="00:38:06.760">Agent Vincent: he <span tts:fontStyle="italic">retired</span> from the FBI.</p>
  804. <p begin="00:38:06.760" end="00:38:09.888">Nobody fired him. So nobody can come <br/>and accuse this guy of,</p>
  805. <p begin="00:38:09.888" end="00:38:13.252">"He's disgruntled because he's saying <br/>that," or, "He's a whack-job."</p>
  806. <p begin="00:38:13.252" end="00:38:14.673">Well, he's highly-decorated.</p>
  807. <p begin="00:38:14.673" end="00:38:17.887">If he's a whack-job and you<br/>decorated him highly,</p>
  808. <p begin="00:38:17.887" end="00:38:20.804">there's something really wrong <br/>with you. (laughs)</p>
  809. <p begin="00:38:21.054" end="00:38:22.300">So, it's out there.</p>
  810. <p begin="00:38:22.300" end="00:38:23.878">They can go, they can see.</p>
  811. <p begin="00:38:23.878" end="00:38:26.167">And a lot of these cases include...</p>
  812. <p begin="00:38:26.167" end="00:38:30.051"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">not</span> "the lack of imagination."</p>
  813. <p begin="00:38:30.051" end="00:38:32.179">(laughs) <br/>-- that's what they said --</p>
  814. <p begin="00:38:32.179" end="00:38:35.446">Or, "they couldn't connect the dots."</p>
  815. <p begin="00:38:35.446" end="00:38:39.628">Or, "there were these walls and the<br/>information was not being sh--";</p>
  816. <p begin="00:38:39.628" end="00:38:43.535">"It was all bureaucratic incompetence, <br/>bungling."</p>
  817. <p begin="00:38:43.815" end="00:38:46.933">Did we have tons of bureaucratic bungling?</p>
  818. <p begin="00:38:46.933" end="00:38:48.070">Oh, yeah!</p>
  819. <p begin="00:38:48.070" end="00:38:51.681">Did any of these have <span tts:fontStyle="italic">anything</span> to do<br/>with bureaucratic bungling?</p>
  820. <p begin="00:38:51.681" end="00:38:53.761">Oh, no! <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Absolutely</span> no.</p>
  821. <p begin="00:38:53.761" end="00:38:54.931">And they would tell you,</p>
  822. <p begin="00:38:54.931" end="00:38:57.986">"Yes, there were State Department,<br/>the CIA."</p>
  823. <p begin="00:38:58.416" end="00:39:01.739">And even with the White House, it gets <br/>very interesting;</p>
  824. <p begin="00:39:01.851" end="00:39:04.641">because I know "the evil Bush"<br/>we talk about a lot.</p>
  825. <p begin="00:39:04.641" end="00:39:06.409">A lot of these...</p>
  826. <p begin="00:39:06.859" end="00:39:10.356">-- that includes Agent Wright's case,<br/>John Vincent's case --</p>
  827. <p begin="00:39:10.546" end="00:39:13.525">took place in late 1990s, mid-1990s.</p>
  828. <p begin="00:39:13.525" end="00:39:17.372">So you're looking at the Clinton <br/>administration <span tts:fontStyle="italic">and</span> Bush administration.</p>
  829. <p begin="00:39:17.372" end="00:39:20.602">You're looking at a Democrat, <br/>and you're looking at a Republican.</p>
  830. <p begin="00:39:20.882" end="00:39:23.794">And so, it's not partisan.</p>
  831. <p begin="00:39:24.334" end="00:39:29.766">It doesn't go only through two evils,<br/>Cheney and Bush. It...</p>
  832. <p begin="00:39:31.628" end="00:39:35.864">And this is very important<br/>to talk about briefly here.</p>
  833. <p begin="00:39:35.864" end="00:39:37.328">When I'm talking about this...</p>
  834. <p begin="00:39:37.328" end="00:39:42.591">-- Gladio Plan B, these cases, Clinton, <br/>Bush administration --</p>
  835. <p begin="00:39:42.591" end="00:39:44.929">one of the biggest reasons I believe</p>
  836. <p begin="00:39:44.929" end="00:39:47.651">a lot of people don't get it, and don't <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">want</span> to get it...</p>
  837. <p begin="00:39:47.651" end="00:39:53.391">-- and this is in the United States; with <br/>most of our foreign viewers, that doesn't</p>
  838. <p begin="00:39:53.391" end="00:39:57.772">seem to be the case as much; but <br/>especially with the United States --</p>
  839. <p begin="00:39:57.772" end="00:40:02.366">is, we are conditioned to look at things</p>
  840. <p begin="00:40:02.366" end="00:40:08.540">as very classic "black hat guys, <br/>and the guys in white hats."</p>
  841. <p begin="00:40:09.480" end="00:40:15.381">Now, you get these guys in black hats<br/>versus other guys in black hats?</p>
  842. <p begin="00:40:15.391" end="00:40:18.278">It just doesn't go through.</p>
  843. <p begin="00:40:18.278" end="00:40:22.501">It just... this automatic wall comes up,<br/>and they're like,</p>
  844. <p begin="00:40:22.501" end="00:40:25.568">"Uh, well, because... what the Russians<br/>are doing is really bad;"</p>
  845. <p begin="00:40:25.568" end="00:40:27.999">"And here's what Israel is doing, <br/>and it's really bad;"</p>
  846. <p begin="00:40:27.999" end="00:40:30.644">"And here's US. Here are these... the <br/>State Department?"</p>
  847. <p begin="00:40:30.644" end="00:40:33.946">"Democrats? Republicans? Clinton? Bush?"</p>
  848. <p begin="00:40:33.946" end="00:40:34.874">"<span tts:fontStyle="italic">No!</span>"</p>
  849. <p begin="00:40:34.874" end="00:40:39.463">That doesn't fit our paradigm.<br/>Because we have to say,</p>
  850. <p begin="00:40:39.463" end="00:40:43.335">"PNAC, Bush and Cheney, versus <br/>the good Democrats,"</p>
  851. <p begin="00:40:43.335" end="00:40:46.756">"and they were the ones that did... <br/>-- now, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">that's</span> simple. That's easy."</p>
  852. <p begin="00:40:46.756" end="00:40:51.342">"I can go for that. I can <span tts:fontStyle="italic">really</span> put <br/>my support behind that."</p>
  853. <p begin="00:40:52.562" end="00:40:54.991">Including, like what you were <br/>talking about with...</p>
  854. <p begin="00:40:54.991" end="00:40:56.392">and this is Common Cause,</p>
  855. <p begin="00:40:56.392" end="00:40:59.526">the NGO that was set up here,</p>
  856. <p begin="00:40:59.526" end="00:41:01.673">the website during the <br/>Bush administration.</p>
  857. <p begin="00:41:01.673" end="00:41:03.107">It was Soros-funded.</p>
  858. <p begin="00:41:03.107" end="00:41:06.150">It becomes very easy. And it's like,</p>
  859. <p begin="00:41:06.150" end="00:41:07.784">"Give me the black hat guys"</p>
  860. <p begin="00:41:07.784" end="00:41:09.467">"and tell me these are the white,"</p>
  861. <p begin="00:41:09.467" end="00:41:11.011">"and I can follow you."</p>
  862. <p begin="00:41:11.231" end="00:41:12.230">If you come</p>
  863. <p begin="00:41:12.230" end="00:41:14.820">-- whether you're Sibel Edmonds <br/>or if you're Colleen Rowley --</p>
  864. <p begin="00:41:14.820" end="00:41:15.884">and you say,</p>
  865. <p begin="00:41:15.884" end="00:41:17.886">"Yeah, but it involved this<br/>administration,"</p>
  866. <p begin="00:41:17.886" end="00:41:19.771">"this administration, this <br/>administration;"</p>
  867. <p begin="00:41:19.771" end="00:41:24.132">"Democrats and Republicans;<br/>Allies and non-allies,"</p>
  868. <p begin="00:41:24.922" end="00:41:26.905">then I'm gonna say it's crazy.</p>
  869. <p begin="00:41:26.905" end="00:41:30.120">Then I'm gonna say it doesn't make<br/>sense to me.</p>
  870. <p begin="00:41:30.120" end="00:41:32.256">And it's <span tts:fontStyle="italic">always</span> been this way.</p>
  871. <p begin="00:41:32.256" end="00:41:35.539">And you have covered in your program</p>
  872. <p begin="00:41:35.539" end="00:41:38.068">these episodes on education:</p>
  873. <p begin="00:41:38.068" end="00:41:40.695">it is framed that way from the<br/>beginning for us.</p>
  874. <p begin="00:41:40.695" end="00:41:42.801">I mean, even with the test-taking.</p>
  875. <p begin="00:41:42.801" end="00:41:45.499">One quick example would be,</p>
  876. <p begin="00:41:45.499" end="00:41:48.376">Watergate incident and what <br/>happened with Nixon.</p>
  877. <p begin="00:41:48.376" end="00:41:50.869">There is this classic narrative.</p>
  878. <p begin="00:41:50.869" end="00:41:52.820">And we have some good guys,</p>
  879. <p begin="00:41:52.820" end="00:41:55.725">we have guys that we believe <br/>they have white hats.</p>
  880. <p begin="00:41:55.725" end="00:42:00.449">I mean, Bob Woodward was there, <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Washington Post:</span> they were fantastic.</p>
  881. <p begin="00:42:00.449" end="00:42:02.533">They carried a lot of these.</p>
  882. <p begin="00:42:02.533" end="00:42:04.751">It makes it very sexy;</p>
  883. <p begin="00:42:04.751" end="00:42:06.467">it makes it very Hollywood-ish.</p>
  884. <p begin="00:42:06.467" end="00:42:09.695">Imagine a Hollywood movie when you<br/>don't have guys with white hats?</p>
  885. <p begin="00:42:09.695" end="00:42:11.574">They're all black hat guys?</p>
  886. <p begin="00:42:11.574" end="00:42:14.649">So, you want to give a test?<br/>This is the classic you give them.</p>
  887. <p begin="00:42:14.649" end="00:42:16.181">And there's one answer.</p>
  888. <p begin="00:42:16.181" end="00:42:17.774">Because with those tests,</p>
  889. <p begin="00:42:17.774" end="00:42:19.393">and multiple-options tests,</p>
  890. <p begin="00:42:19.393" end="00:42:21.341">they can't say, "This, however..."</p>
  891. <p begin="00:42:21.341" end="00:42:23.561">You can't put a "however" or "but." </p>
  892. <p begin="00:42:24.451" end="00:42:28.967">You can't start bringing in some<br/>critical-thinking elements and say,</p>
  893. <p begin="00:42:29.527" end="00:42:31.862">"All right, now, it's interesting: "</p>
  894. <p begin="00:42:31.862" end="00:42:34.106">"because look at <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Washington Post</span> "</p>
  895. <p begin="00:42:34.106" end="00:42:37.688">"before Watergate and long <br/>after Watergate: "</p>
  896. <p begin="00:42:37.688" end="00:42:40.234">"why there was such an <br/>aberration there?"</p>
  897. <p begin="00:42:41.324" end="00:42:43.179">What has -- really --<br/>Bob Woodward done?</p>
  898. <p begin="00:42:43.179" end="00:42:47.606">He's been the mouthpiece of White <br/>Houses from Bush to Obama</p>
  899. <p begin="00:42:48.156" end="00:42:50.586">and he has millions of dollars.</p>
  900. <p begin="00:42:50.586" end="00:42:55.111">I went to his house in Georgetown: <br/>he was one of the first reporters I...</p>
  901. <p begin="00:42:55.111" end="00:42:58.632">I got introduced to during my case:<br/>before, even, my case came out.</p>
  902. <p begin="00:42:59.082" end="00:43:02.342">His kids are going to private schools:<br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">he is the system.</span></p>
  903. <p begin="00:43:02.342" end="00:43:04.995">He is the CIA's <span tts:fontStyle="italic">darling</span>, OK?</p>
  904. <p begin="00:43:05.505" end="00:43:09.118">And, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Washington Post</span> : <br/>Iran-Contra, what did they do?</p>
  905. <p begin="00:43:09.219" end="00:43:11.853">They had their opportun-- ...</p>
  906. <p begin="00:43:11.853" end="00:43:14.226">if it was was the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Washington Post</span><br/>and reporters,</p>
  907. <p begin="00:43:14.226" end="00:43:16.567">it happened during this time with <br/>Watergate.</p>
  908. <p begin="00:43:16.567" end="00:43:19.105">It didn't happen before; <br/>it didn't happen after.</p>
  909. <p begin="00:43:19.105" end="00:43:22.415">You see... because the classic way is,</p>
  910. <p begin="00:43:22.415" end="00:43:25.125">you get people like Gary Webb <br/>and Iran-Contra.</p>
  911. <p begin="00:43:25.125" end="00:43:28.546">If you're a good reporter, you do your<br/>job, that's what happens to you.</p>
  912. <p begin="00:43:28.546" end="00:43:32.293">Not become a multimillionaire <br/>scumbag Bob Woodward.</p>
  913. <p begin="00:43:32.923" end="00:43:36.177">And then, looking at it this way</p>
  914. <p begin="00:43:36.177" end="00:43:37.290">-- from this angle --</p>
  915. <p begin="00:43:37.290" end="00:43:38.545">that makes you think and say,</p>
  916. <p begin="00:43:38.545" end="00:43:40.818">"Really, let's look at Watergate."</p>
  917. <p begin="00:43:40.818" end="00:43:44.803">And based on some of the documents<br/>that have been, already, public;</p>
  918. <p begin="00:43:44.803" end="00:43:47.109">based on some people who <br/>have already talked:</p>
  919. <p begin="00:43:47.109" end="00:43:49.933">Is it what they tell us it was about? </p>
  920. <p begin="00:43:49.933" end="00:43:52.198">Was it true that there were <br/>some elements</p>
  921. <p begin="00:43:52.198" end="00:43:54.633">saying they wanted to see Nixon gone?</p>
  922. <p begin="00:43:54.633" end="00:43:55.680">OK, they really...</p>
  923. <p begin="00:43:55.680" end="00:43:58.744">Well, they wanted to get caught, at any <br/>rate. I think that much is apparent from</p>
  924. <p begin="00:43:58.744" end="00:44:02.532">...or someone in that operation wanted <br/>to get caught, at some point.</p>
  925. <p begin="00:44:02.532" end="00:44:06.748">And absolutely, they were handed<br/>that story on a golden platter.</p>
  926. <p begin="00:44:06.748" end="00:44:10.271">Unfortunately, we're running out of time;<br/>and we've lost your video feed, </p>
  927. <p begin="00:44:10.271" end="00:44:12.703">unfortunately, for those watching<br/>the video of this.</p>
  928. <p begin="00:44:12.703" end="00:44:16.360">So I hope you people will put up <br/>with the frozen image.</p>
  929. <p begin="00:44:16.360" end="00:44:17.919">But Sibel, let's...</p>
  930. <p begin="00:44:17.919" end="00:44:21.630">in the final few minutes we have here <br/>with you today, why don't we get to some</p>
  931. <p begin="00:44:21.630" end="00:44:24.824">of the questions and comments that <br/>came in from our last conversation?</p>
  932. <p begin="00:44:24.824" end="00:44:27.168">We've had a lot of feedback from<br/>people about it, </p>
  933. <p begin="00:44:27.168" end="00:44:30.679"> and I want to address some of these <br/>people's questions and concerns.</p>
  934. <p begin="00:44:30.679" end="00:44:32.151">For example, we had...</p>
  935. <p begin="00:44:32.151" end="00:44:34.138">from someone called Errol E.:</p>
  936. <p begin="00:44:34.138" end="00:44:38.850">he wrote in to take issue with some <br/>of the things</p>
  937. <p begin="00:44:38.850" end="00:44:41.664"> that we brought up in the<br/>last conversation,</p>
  938. <p begin="00:44:41.664" end="00:44:43.991">including his contention that the idea</p>
  939. <p begin="00:44:43.991" end="00:44:48.469">to implement the Islamist cults as actors <br/>of Gladio did not come up</p>
  940. <p begin="00:44:48.469" end="00:44:51.514"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">after</span> the Susurluk scandal, but was <br/>long prepared beforehand.</p>
  941. <p begin="00:44:52.014" end="00:44:54.451">And I was wondering if you could <br/>address that idea:</p>
  942. <p begin="00:44:55.131" end="00:44:57.717">is there something <span tts:fontStyle="italic">to</span> the fact that this <br/>was something</p>
  943. <p begin="00:44:57.717" end="00:45:00.301"> that had already been in existence<br/>before Susurluk?</p>
  944. <p begin="00:45:00.301" end="00:45:04.925">And if so, then what was, really, the <br/>changing incident there?</p>
  945. <p begin="00:45:04.925" end="00:45:06.161">What really took place?</p>
  946. <p begin="00:45:06.581" end="00:45:11.080">Of course! I mean, first you can start<br/>with 1980s in Afghanistan,</p>
  947. <p begin="00:45:11.080" end="00:45:15.556">With <span tts:fontStyle="italic">mujahideens</span> and our partnership <br/>with al-Qaeda...-- not al-Qaeda, actually:</p>
  948. <p begin="00:45:15.556" end="00:45:17.616">because there's no such thing,<br/>"al-Qaeda" --</p>
  949. <p begin="00:45:17.616" end="00:45:19.627">with <span tts:fontStyle="italic">mujahideen</span> and Bin Laden,<br/>back then.</p>
  950. <p begin="00:45:19.627" end="00:45:22.591">Then you're looking at all the<br/>religious cults</p>
  951. <p begin="00:45:22.591" end="00:45:24.620">-- even in Iran, OK?</p>
  952. <p begin="00:45:24.620" end="00:45:25.952">That's another thing,</p>
  953. <p begin="00:45:25.952" end="00:45:27.882">and that is for another program.</p>
  954. <p begin="00:45:27.882" end="00:45:31.442">People, they say, "OK, Iran, <br/>Islamic Revolution,"</p>
  955. <p begin="00:45:31.442" end="00:45:33.573">but it's so much more into...</p>
  956. <p begin="00:45:33.573" end="00:45:36.777">I was there;<br/>my father was right in the thick of it.</p>
  957. <p begin="00:45:37.218" end="00:45:39.028">It's not the story presented here.</p>
  958. <p begin="00:45:39.028" end="00:45:41.330">First of all, there <span tts:fontStyle="italic">was</span> no <br/>"Islamic Revolution."</p>
  959. <p begin="00:45:41.330" end="00:45:42.847">The initial revolution in Iran</p>
  960. <p begin="00:45:42.847" end="00:45:44.676">was actually carried out, organized,</p>
  961. <p begin="00:45:44.676" end="00:45:47.615">mainly by Social Democrats<br/>and the leftists</p>
  962. <p begin="00:45:47.615" end="00:45:48.560">-- the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">Hezb-e Tudeh</span>.</p>
  963. <p begin="00:45:48.560" end="00:45:50.235">But I'm not gonna get into that.</p>
  964. <p begin="00:45:50.235" end="00:45:52.264">We have been doing that...</p>
  965. <p begin="00:45:52.804" end="00:45:55.489">before us, the United Kingdom,</p>
  966. <p begin="00:45:55.489" end="00:45:57.226">the Brits have been doing this.</p>
  967. <p begin="00:45:57.226" end="00:46:00.992">This has been a classic approach, using...</p>
  968. <p begin="00:46:00.992" end="00:46:03.444">-- and especially by the British Empire --</p>
  969. <p begin="00:46:03.444" end="00:46:04.869">using <span tts:fontStyle="italic">religion.</span></p>
  970. <p begin="00:46:05.439" end="00:46:07.284">So that part of it is not new.</p>
  971. <p begin="00:46:07.284" end="00:46:09.337">And even some of these elements</p>
  972. <p begin="00:46:09.337" end="00:46:12.274">early on in 1990s, sure.</p>
  973. <p begin="00:46:12.274" end="00:46:14.385">But they were not prioritized,</p>
  974. <p begin="00:46:14.385" end="00:46:19.635">and they did not become NATO's <br/>-- Gladio's -- adopted new plan.</p>
  975. <p begin="00:46:19.635" end="00:46:22.891">That is: were they being used by the<br/>CIA? Yes. </p>
  976. <p begin="00:46:22.891" end="00:46:28.494">Were they being used by the British <br/>intelligence agencies? Absolutely.</p>
  977. <p begin="00:46:28.494" end="00:46:30.714">But it was not prioritized.</p>
  978. <p begin="00:46:30.714" end="00:46:32.923">And again, we have Gladio</p>
  979. <p begin="00:46:32.923" end="00:46:35.310">-- and this is <span tts:fontStyle="italic">specifically</span> Gladio --</p>
  980. <p begin="00:46:35.310" end="00:46:40.671">going through the military<br/>and ultranationalist factions.</p>
  981. <p begin="00:46:40.671" end="00:46:45.309">It was after Susurluk when <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">NATO, Gladio</span> adapted.</p>
  982. <p begin="00:46:45.309" end="00:46:47.357">Because before that it was...</p>
  983. <p begin="00:46:47.357" end="00:46:50.971">they were being implemented,<br/>but <span tts:fontStyle="italic">not by NATO</span>.</p>
  984. <p begin="00:46:50.971" end="00:46:53.359">And it was not part of Gladio's operation.</p>
  985. <p begin="00:46:53.389" end="00:46:55.493">It wasn't, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">absolutely</span> it wasn't.</p>
  986. <p begin="00:46:55.493" end="00:46:57.933"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">That</span> became <span tts:fontStyle="italic">after</span> Susurluk incident.</p>
  987. <p begin="00:46:59.313" end="00:47:01.760">Then we have a question in from John S.<br/></p>
  988. <p begin="00:47:01.760" end="00:47:03.847">And he writes:<br/>"When Dickerson and Grossman"</p>
  989. <p begin="00:47:03.847" end="00:47:05.901">"were yanked home out of Turkey<br/>following Susurluk,"</p>
  990. <p begin="00:47:05.901" end="00:47:09.611">"it may seem very obviously linked to<br/>that scandal, and I'm sure it totally is."</p>
  991. <p begin="00:47:09.611" end="00:47:11.530">But how do we know? Or <span tts:fontStyle="italic">do</span> we know?</p>
  992. <p begin="00:47:11.530" end="00:47:14.693">"Again, how much is reasonable <br/>conjecture and logical conclusion,"</p>
  993. <p begin="00:47:14.693" end="00:47:18.091">"and how much is something more than <br/>that: information statements, documents,"</p>
  994. <p begin="00:47:18.091" end="00:47:19.921">"links to Gladio, et cetera?"</p>
  995. <p begin="00:47:19.921" end="00:47:23.056">(Sibel): Sure. And again, part of <br/>this question</p>
  996. <p begin="00:47:23.056" end="00:47:26.027">is caused by... partly by the fact</p>
  997. <p begin="00:47:26.027" end="00:47:28.938">of all the secrecy and classification. <br/>That's one. </p>
  998. <p begin="00:47:28.949" end="00:47:31.844">But then, for people not knowing the <br/>whole picture</p>
  999. <p begin="00:47:31.844" end="00:47:35.278">because they haven't looked at this case,<br/>they haven't looked at this book...</p>
  1000. <p begin="00:47:35.278" end="00:47:40.124">because you start with Grossman<br/>and with Dickerson.</p>
  1001. <p begin="00:47:40.124" end="00:47:45.160">However, later, they...<br/>-- at least Grossman --</p>
  1002. <p begin="00:47:45.160" end="00:47:47.741">was part of the FBI's investigations.</p>
  1003. <p begin="00:47:47.741" end="00:47:51.648">And even though he was, first, number<br/>three guy in the State Department,</p>
  1004. <p begin="00:47:51.648" end="00:47:53.627">and ended up being number two guy,</p>
  1005. <p begin="00:47:53.627" end="00:47:56.770">his job actually was with NATO </p>
  1006. <p begin="00:47:56.770" end="00:47:59.535">and these operations in Central Asia <br/>and Caucasus.</p>
  1007. <p begin="00:47:59.535" end="00:48:01.111">And they don't know that.</p>
  1008. <p begin="00:48:01.111" end="00:48:03.881">The other thing that this question</p>
  1009. <p begin="00:48:03.881" end="00:48:05.692">-- the person who asked the questions --</p>
  1010. <p begin="00:48:05.692" end="00:48:08.235">is disregarding is...<br/>with Dickersons, though,</p>
  1011. <p begin="00:48:08.235" end="00:48:10.706">he was sent to NATO, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">then</span> to the <br/>United States.</p>
  1012. <p begin="00:48:10.706" end="00:48:12.073">When my case case came out,</p>
  1013. <p begin="00:48:12.073" end="00:48:14.074">when he was under investigations,</p>
  1014. <p begin="00:48:14.074" end="00:48:16.318">when the court case was still proceeding</p>
  1015. <p begin="00:48:16.318" end="00:48:17.329">-- my court case --</p>
  1016. <p begin="00:48:17.329" end="00:48:19.709">and the Congress was at the beginning,</p>
  1017. <p begin="00:48:19.709" end="00:48:22.281">initial stage of its investigations:</p>
  1018. <p begin="00:48:23.641" end="00:48:25.980">even though the judge had banned him,</p>
  1019. <p begin="00:48:25.980" end="00:48:27.781">Dickerson got on the plane</p>
  1020. <p begin="00:48:27.781" end="00:48:29.655">and he said he has a new job,</p>
  1021. <p begin="00:48:29.655" end="00:48:30.588">he's going to NATO.</p>
  1022. <p begin="00:48:30.588" end="00:48:35.269">So he was sent to NATO Brussels: <br/>he escaped, while under investigation.</p>
  1023. <p begin="00:48:35.269" end="00:48:37.081">And this was completely supported</p>
  1024. <p begin="00:48:37.081" end="00:48:39.681">by the Pentagon's Gladio division.</p>
  1025. <p begin="00:48:39.681" end="00:48:40.629">And then he went</p>
  1026. <p begin="00:48:40.629" end="00:48:44.490">-- and this would be end of August,<br/>early September 2002 --</p>
  1027. <p begin="00:48:44.490" end="00:48:46.463">where did he end up? Brussels.</p>
  1028. <p begin="00:48:46.463" end="00:48:48.495">Where did he end up? NATO Brussels.</p>
  1029. <p begin="00:48:48.495" end="00:48:50.896">Not only that. One of the things...</p>
  1030. <p begin="00:48:50.896" end="00:48:55.162">-- again, if they had read my books, <br/>they wouldn't even have this question --</p>
  1031. <p begin="00:48:55.162" end="00:48:57.593"> one of the things that happened is...</p>
  1032. <p begin="00:48:57.593" end="00:48:59.320">first thing that happened, </p>
  1033. <p begin="00:48:59.320" end="00:49:03.836">before the FBI was stopped and <span tts:fontStyle="italic">I</span><br/>became the target of retaliation,</p>
  1034. <p begin="00:49:03.836" end="00:49:06.798">there was a damage assessment<br/>on the espionage</p>
  1035. <p begin="00:49:06.798" end="00:49:09.922">to see how much information<br/>-- intelligence --</p>
  1036. <p begin="00:49:09.922" end="00:49:13.529">we had lost due to the spies in the FBI.</p>
  1037. <p begin="00:49:14.482" end="00:49:18.509">How much documents, and <br/>informants' safety, et cetera.</p>
  1038. <p begin="00:49:18.509" end="00:49:21.932">Well, the top one, two, three, four...</p>
  1039. <p begin="00:49:21.932" end="00:49:25.413">the top <span tts:fontStyle="italic">four</span> targets of the FBI within<br/>this period</p>
  1040. <p begin="00:49:26.033" end="00:49:29.491">-- even though they still had more <br/>official time left</p>
  1041. <p begin="00:49:29.491" end="00:49:34.217">from their official positions overseas --</p>
  1042. <p begin="00:49:34.217" end="00:49:37.806">they were removed. And they were <br/>sent... -- not to Turkey:</p>
  1043. <p begin="00:49:37.806" end="00:49:39.385"> they were sent to NATO.</p>
  1044. <p begin="00:49:39.385" end="00:49:41.414">I would ask them to look at</p>
  1045. <p begin="00:49:41.414" end="00:49:43.437">this very important guy, for example,</p>
  1046. <p begin="00:49:43.437" end="00:49:46.762">in Turkish consulate in Chicago</p>
  1047. <p begin="00:49:46.762" end="00:49:48.304">and Chicago consul.</p>
  1048. <p begin="00:49:48.304" end="00:49:49.530">Where did he end up?</p>
  1049. <p begin="00:49:49.530" end="00:49:53.418">Again, he had more left <br/>-- more time left -- in his term.</p>
  1050. <p begin="00:49:53.418" end="00:49:57.586">However, he was given a very high-level <br/>position in NATO in Brussels.</p>
  1051. <p begin="00:49:57.586" end="00:50:01.670">So you're looking at criminal top targets <br/>who ended up in NATO</p>
  1052. <p begin="00:50:01.670" end="00:50:03.872">-- including Dickersons.</p>
  1053. <p begin="00:50:04.712" end="00:50:09.408">And so, that is not to take one or two <br/>or three incidents</p>
  1054. <p begin="00:50:09.408" end="00:50:11.444">and say, "These people are there."</p>
  1055. <p begin="00:50:11.444" end="00:50:13.581">That's one. And the second thing is:</p>
  1056. <p begin="00:50:13.581" end="00:50:16.452">FBI's operations <br/>-- counterintelligence --</p>
  1057. <p begin="00:50:16.452" end="00:50:18.283">has <span tts:fontStyle="italic">already established that</span>.</p>
  1058. <p begin="00:50:18.613" end="00:50:20.362"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">I</span> didn't call it Plan B.</p>
  1059. <p begin="00:50:23.482" end="00:50:26.656">The file that has to do with Grey Wolves</p>
  1060. <p begin="00:50:26.656" end="00:50:29.356">turned into Gladio Plan B operations.</p>
  1061. <p begin="00:50:29.356" end="00:50:30.502">And this is why...<br/></p>
  1062. <p begin="00:50:30.502" end="00:50:35.345">this was the reason these investigations,<br/>operations, had to be stopped</p>
  1063. <p begin="00:50:35.345" end="00:50:37.354">by the State Department and Pentagon.</p>
  1064. <p begin="00:50:37.354" end="00:50:41.297">And this was why they didn't want<br/>any of these to proceed in courts.</p>
  1065. <p begin="00:50:41.297" end="00:50:44.210">Because they didn't want <br/>anyone to know</p>
  1066. <p begin="00:50:44.210" end="00:50:46.671">that this was the operation...</p>
  1067. <p begin="00:50:46.671" end="00:50:48.107">they were carrying it out.</p>
  1068. <p begin="00:50:48.107" end="00:50:50.146">Including their operations together</p>
  1069. <p begin="00:50:50.146" end="00:50:52.280">with Bin Laden and the <span tts:fontStyle="italic">mujahideen</span>:</p>
  1070. <p begin="00:50:52.280" end="00:50:54.117">part of the NATO operation.</p>
  1071. <p begin="00:50:55.717" end="00:50:57.850">OK, time for one more quick question.</p>
  1072. <p begin="00:50:57.850" end="00:50:59.279">We have a question from Emery:</p>
  1073. <p begin="00:50:59.279" end="00:51:02.878">"How does Sibel consider the <br/>Ergenekon trials in light of Gladio?"</p>
  1074. <p begin="00:51:02.878" end="00:51:06.599">"What does she make of the claim<br/>that it is a US-backed operation"</p>
  1075. <p begin="00:51:06.599" end="00:51:08.821">"to replace the secular<br/>nationalist establishment"</p>
  1076. <p begin="00:51:08.821" end="00:51:11.209"> "with a more pliant Islamic <br/>capitalist establishment,"</p>
  1077. <p begin="00:51:11.209" end="00:51:13.314">"using the G&#252;len movement?"</p>
  1078. <p begin="00:51:14.234" end="00:51:17.761">Uh, 100 percent, I believe.</p>
  1079. <p begin="00:51:17.761" end="00:51:20.921">And anyone who knows and who <br/>understands</p>
  1080. <p begin="00:51:20.921" end="00:51:24.091">and who is analyzing this objectively<br/>would tell you:</p>
  1081. <p begin="00:51:24.091" end="00:51:28.697">Ergenekon is completely, 100 percent,<br/>a US plan -- a US-backed plan.</p>
  1082. <p begin="00:51:28.703" end="00:51:30.879">Look, I will give a very quick example.</p>
  1083. <p begin="00:51:30.879" end="00:51:35.213">In 1997, this <span tts:fontStyle="italic">same</span> administration,<br/>Turkish regime,</p>
  1084. <p begin="00:51:35.213" end="00:51:37.509">the Turkish government, AKP government</p>
  1085. <p begin="00:51:37.509" end="00:51:41.045">-- which, these are all G&#252;len's guys:<br/>Erdo&#287;an and Gul; </p>
  1086. <p begin="00:51:41.045" end="00:51:43.572">the Islamic, current Islamic people --</p>
  1087. <p begin="00:51:43.902" end="00:51:46.295"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">they won</span> the election.</p>
  1088. <p begin="00:51:46.295" end="00:51:49.811">And... in 1997, their party won <br/>the majority, </p>
  1089. <p begin="00:51:49.811" end="00:51:52.773">both popular and... everything, right?</p>
  1090. <p begin="00:51:52.777" end="00:51:56.199">However, this was not exactly <br/>during the time</p>
  1091. <p begin="00:51:56.199" end="00:51:59.295">the United States had <span tts:fontStyle="italic">switched</span><br/>from the military secularists.</p>
  1092. <p begin="00:51:59.295" end="00:52:01.313">So the military in Turkey said,</p>
  1093. <p begin="00:52:01.313" end="00:52:04.065">"Too bad! They have the majority <br/>of votes,"</p>
  1094. <p begin="00:52:04.065" end="00:52:07.305">"but we're not gonna let them <br/>get into power."</p>
  1095. <p begin="00:52:07.305" end="00:52:10.495">So you know what they did, right?<br/>The Turkish military shut down AKP.</p>
  1096. <p begin="00:52:10.495" end="00:52:12.387">They took Erdo&#287;an; they put him in jail.</p>
  1097. <p begin="00:52:12.387" end="00:52:14.036">They said, "Vote doesn't matter." </p>
  1098. <p begin="00:52:14.036" end="00:52:17.890">"If you vote and it's not our guy who gets<br/>the majority, we'll put them in court."</p>
  1099. <p begin="00:52:17.890" end="00:52:20.881">The military in Turkey can never, <br/>ever, ever do anything...</p>
  1100. <p begin="00:52:20.881" end="00:52:22.153">-- they can't even pee --</p>
  1101. <p begin="00:52:22.153" end="00:52:24.776">without the permission from<br/>the United States.</p>
  1102. <p begin="00:52:25.456" end="00:52:27.555">Same thing... I mean, this is no different</p>
  1103. <p begin="00:52:27.555" end="00:52:31.228">from the military under... in Egypt <br/>under Mubarak.</p>
  1104. <p begin="00:52:31.378" end="00:52:34.521">The military regimes we install,<br/>they are not answerable </p>
  1105. <p begin="00:52:34.521" end="00:52:37.592">to the Presidents or the kings<br/>that we have installed.</p>
  1106. <p begin="00:52:37.592" end="00:52:41.038">They are answerable to the United <br/>States: as simple as that.</p>
  1107. <p begin="00:52:41.038" end="00:52:42.747">Same thing with the Iran revolution</p>
  1108. <p begin="00:52:42.747" end="00:52:45.151">-- and I'm not gonna call it <br/>"Islamic Revolution."</p>
  1109. <p begin="00:52:45.151" end="00:52:47.893">Shah's military, they all put <br/>their guns down...</p>
  1110. <p begin="00:52:47.893" end="00:52:50.496">-- and I hate the Shah. He tortured <br/>my father, OK?</p>
  1111. <p begin="00:52:50.496" end="00:52:53.540">Who told them to put down their guns?</p>
  1112. <p begin="00:52:53.540" end="00:52:55.473">Suddenly, boom! They put their...</p>
  1113. <p begin="00:52:55.473" end="00:52:57.788">and they told Shah he was on his own.</p>
  1114. <p begin="00:52:57.788" end="00:52:59.377">He escaped, and before he died,</p>
  1115. <p begin="00:52:59.377" end="00:53:02.452">Shah said, "It was the United States' <br/>wish."</p>
  1116. <p begin="00:53:02.452" end="00:53:05.174">They said to the military,<br/>"Don't support or protect him."</p>
  1117. <p begin="00:53:05.804" end="00:53:09.169">So, when the United States believe<br/>you're fair game and it's over,</p>
  1118. <p begin="00:53:09.169" end="00:53:10.280">it's over, babe!</p>
  1119. <p begin="00:53:10.280" end="00:53:13.751">Now in this case, the military in 1997, <br/>they said,</p>
  1120. <p begin="00:53:13.751" end="00:53:17.557">"You're not allowed with the green lights<br/>from the United States." What changed?</p>
  1121. <p begin="00:53:17.557" end="00:53:21.200">Five years later, the same party<br/>-- the same man --</p>
  1122. <p begin="00:53:21.200" end="00:53:23.127">gets the same number of votes.</p>
  1123. <p begin="00:53:23.127" end="00:53:26.092">And, lo and behold!<br/>Nobody puts them in jail.</p>
  1124. <p begin="00:53:26.092" end="00:53:27.296">They get into power.</p>
  1125. <p begin="00:53:27.296" end="00:53:30.430">And starting within the first two, <br/>three years,</p>
  1126. <p begin="00:53:30.430" end="00:53:32.063">they start picking the top...</p>
  1127. <p begin="00:53:32.063" end="00:53:35.188">-- not top <span tts:fontStyle="italic">military</span> guys. <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Military</span> got divided:</p>
  1128. <p begin="00:53:35.188" end="00:53:40.988">those who were willing to go along with<br/>the US NATO Operation Plan B,</p>
  1129. <p begin="00:53:40.988" end="00:53:43.375">including this administration;</p>
  1130. <p begin="00:53:43.375" end="00:53:48.085"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">and</span> the segment that was still <br/>ultranationalist and secularist.</p>
  1131. <p begin="00:53:48.085" end="00:53:51.569">And the United States gave the green <br/>light, saying, "Go after them."</p>
  1132. <p begin="00:53:51.859" end="00:53:54.444">Without the United States giving the <br/>green light</p>
  1133. <p begin="00:53:54.444" end="00:53:56.467">saying, "Yes, you can do it,"</p>
  1134. <p begin="00:53:56.467" end="00:53:58.172">no way you would see that! </p>
  1135. <p begin="00:53:58.172" end="00:54:01.093">And again, what kind of aberration are <br/>we talking about?</p>
  1136. <p begin="00:54:01.093" end="00:54:05.788">Between 1997 and 2002,<br/>the military got enlightened, and...</p>
  1137. <p begin="00:54:05.808" end="00:54:08.296">(laughs) and we had a real democracy.</p>
  1138. <p begin="00:54:08.296" end="00:54:11.769">This time, the ones who got the majority<br/>in fact came into power.</p>
  1139. <p begin="00:54:11.769" end="00:54:15.323">That's the difference five years make. </p>
  1140. <p begin="00:54:15.323" end="00:54:18.877">Makes such a huge... (laughs)</p>
  1141. <p begin="00:54:18.877" end="00:54:23.652">Well, Sibel, I'm afraid time flies when <br/>you're having fun and kicking butt</p>
  1142. <p begin="00:54:23.668" end="00:54:25.907">-- and we have had a lot of fun today.</p>
  1143. <p begin="00:54:25.907" end="00:54:28.657">So unfortunately, time is just about up.</p>
  1144. <p begin="00:54:28.657" end="00:54:30.903">And once again, this is a conversation</p>
  1145. <p begin="00:54:30.903" end="00:54:34.632">that is not going to end anytime soon, I<br/>think; we have a lot more to discuss.</p>
  1146. <p begin="00:54:34.632" end="00:54:37.730">But is there any final things that you'd <br/>like to leave people with</p>
  1147. <p begin="00:54:37.730" end="00:54:40.201">from what we've talked about today?</p>
  1148. <p begin="00:54:40.201" end="00:54:42.802">Uh, one quick final note.</p>
  1149. <p begin="00:54:42.802" end="00:54:46.249">And that's... it's so disheartening; <br/>it's very disappointing.</p>
  1150. <p begin="00:54:46.249" end="00:54:49.022">Because, as I said: in the United States,</p>
  1151. <p begin="00:54:49.022" end="00:54:51.046">people are so conditioned</p>
  1152. <p begin="00:54:51.046" end="00:54:54.478">to frame their minds around<br/>this "white hat, black hat."</p>
  1153. <p begin="00:54:54.478" end="00:54:56.230">And things are set up this way;</p>
  1154. <p begin="00:54:56.230" end="00:54:58.729">and when things are outside<br/>that paradigm,</p>
  1155. <p begin="00:54:58.729" end="00:55:01.134">they just cannot <span tts:fontStyle="italic">absorb</span> it.</p>
  1156. <p begin="00:55:01.134" end="00:55:03.948">And one of the unfortunate things and <br/>disheartening things </p>
  1157. <p begin="00:55:03.948" end="00:55:07.100">that I have observed with some of the <br/>comments is... it's...</p>
  1158. <p begin="00:55:07.100" end="00:55:10.122">and this <span tts:fontStyle="italic">destroyed</span> the<br/>9/11 Truth Movement.</p>
  1159. <p begin="00:55:10.122" end="00:55:13.552">There are people who are <span tts:fontStyle="italic">eating</span><br/>each other within the movement.</p>
  1160. <p begin="00:55:13.552" end="00:55:15.466">It's like, "It's LIHOP!" "It's MIHOP!"</p>
  1161. <p begin="00:55:15.466" end="00:55:17.484">"If it's LIHOP, it can't be MIHOP,"</p>
  1162. <p begin="00:55:17.484" end="00:55:19.650">or "If it's MIHOP..."<br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">Hop, hop!</span></p>
  1163. <p begin="00:55:19.652" end="00:55:22.553">It's... and they get into some semantics,</p>
  1164. <p begin="00:55:22.553" end="00:55:24.429">and they get into some...</p>
  1165. <p begin="00:55:24.429" end="00:55:26.743">and they are <span tts:fontStyle="italic">self-destroying.</span></p>
  1166. <p begin="00:55:26.743" end="00:55:31.809">I don't know how much of it is caused by <br/>planted elements,</p>
  1167. <p begin="00:55:31.809" end="00:55:33.480">to have this division.</p>
  1168. <p begin="00:55:33.480" end="00:55:37.009">I don't know how much of it is the<br/>natural course of...</p>
  1169. <p begin="00:55:39.860" end="00:55:42.181">I think it's devolving in some ways.</p>
  1170. <p begin="00:55:42.181" end="00:55:45.673">But I am attributing a lot of this <br/>with this...</p>
  1171. <p begin="00:55:45.673" end="00:55:49.866">I guess, decades of <br/><span tts:fontStyle="italic">systemic conditioning</span>,</p>
  1172. <p begin="00:55:49.866" end="00:55:52.956">for people to say,<br/>"This is how you view the world;"</p>
  1173. <p begin="00:55:52.956" end="00:55:55.715">"this is how you view things; this is how<br/>you answer."</p>
  1174. <p begin="00:55:55.715" end="00:55:59.124">"Buts" and "howevers," or "this and <br/>also:" </p>
  1175. <p begin="00:55:59.124" end="00:56:03.813">we don't... we want to get rid of these.<br/>The answer is either A, B, C, D:</p>
  1176. <p begin="00:56:03.813" end="00:56:06.963">LIHOP; MIHOP; No/Nothing; <br/>Israel...</p>
  1177. <p begin="00:56:06.963" end="00:56:11.143">And they need to, first, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">put that away</span>.</p>
  1178. <p begin="00:56:11.143" end="00:56:16.376">Open it up, take in the entire picture;<br/>critically think about it.</p>
  1179. <p begin="00:56:16.376" end="00:56:22.564">And if they want to refuse a certain<br/>theory or certain explanation, that's fine.</p>
  1180. <p begin="00:56:23.004" end="00:56:24.915">But it's very disheartening.</p>
  1181. <p begin="00:56:24.915" end="00:56:27.383">and I'm hoping that we will get</p>
  1182. <p begin="00:56:27.383" end="00:56:30.094">more and more people with open minds</p>
  1183. <p begin="00:56:30.094" end="00:56:32.515">watching this thing and thinking.</p>
  1184. <p begin="00:56:32.515" end="00:56:35.927">And first, get rid of all the<br/>old conditionings.</p>
  1185. <p begin="00:56:35.927" end="00:56:37.437">And I know it's hard to do,</p>
  1186. <p begin="00:56:37.437" end="00:56:40.733">but it's very disheartening -- especially <br/>for some of the journalists </p>
  1187. <p begin="00:56:40.733" end="00:56:42.601"> and people who've been trying<br/>very hard.</p>
  1188. <p begin="00:56:42.601" end="00:56:46.767">I know many whistleblowers have given<br/>up because they got <span tts:fontStyle="italic">disgusted</span>:</p>
  1189. <p begin="00:56:46.767" end="00:56:53.410">of being attacked, and their major<br/>revelations being completely obscured</p>
  1190. <p begin="00:56:53.410" end="00:56:56.397">by some <span tts:fontStyle="italic">stupid</span><br/>-- excuse my language --</p>
  1191. <p begin="00:56:56.397" end="00:56:59.279"><span tts:fontStyle="italic">really idiotic</span> semantics and details.</p>
  1192. <p begin="00:56:59.279" end="00:57:04.100">And so, again, I encourage people<br/>to put everything aside. </p>
  1193. <p begin="00:57:04.100" end="00:57:05.950">Absorb, and do your own research.</p>
  1194. <p begin="00:57:05.951" end="00:57:09.775">Because there's <span tts:fontStyle="italic">plenty</span> out there<br/>to see with this regard,</p>
  1195. <p begin="00:57:09.775" end="00:57:11.835">with what we are discussing today.</p>
  1196. <p begin="00:57:11.835" end="00:57:13.964">And that would be it for me for this<br/>evening.</p>
  1197. <p begin="00:57:13.964" end="00:57:16.298">Well, I think that's very well-put, </p>
  1198. <p begin="00:57:16.298" end="00:57:19.196">and it's an apt description<br/>of this conversation we're having.</p>
  1199. <p begin="00:57:19.196" end="00:57:22.176">Because I hope that this starts<br/>to give people a view</p>
  1200. <p begin="00:57:22.176" end="00:57:24.274"> of the broader, broader, <span tts:fontStyle="italic">broader</span> picture;</p>
  1201. <p begin="00:57:24.274" end="00:57:26.015">because this is such a large thing</p>
  1202. <p begin="00:57:26.015" end="00:57:28.583">that it can't be put into one of those<br/>little boxes</p>
  1203. <p begin="00:57:28.583" end="00:57:32.755">that, I think, makes it a neat little story<br/>to tie everything together.</p>
  1204. <p begin="00:57:32.755" end="00:57:35.379">I think there's a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">lot</span> of different<br/>elements involved here.</p>
  1205. <p begin="00:57:35.379" end="00:57:38.416">It's a <span tts:fontStyle="italic">lot</span> more complicated than many <br/>people are giving credit for.</p>
  1206. <p begin="00:57:38.416" end="00:57:42.149">So I think we're going to have to continue<br/>delving into this, piece by piece.</p>
  1207. <p begin="00:57:42.149" end="00:57:45.606">So that's going to do it for this <br/>particular version of the conversation.</p>
  1208. <p begin="00:57:45.606" end="00:57:48.898">Once again, I do appreciate all the<br/>comments and feedback I'm getting in</p>
  1209. <p begin="00:57:48.898" end="00:57:52.573"> via the website; and as we continue this<br/>conversation with Sibel, we will again </p>
  1210. <p begin="00:57:52.573" end="00:57:56.247">attempt to get to some of your questions <br/>and comments. So keep them coming in, </p>
  1211. <p begin="00:57:56.247" end="00:57:58.589">and keep spreading the word <br/>about this information, </p>
  1212. <p begin="00:57:58.589" end="00:58:01.696">but we'll leave it there for now. Sibel Edmonds, BoilingFrogsPost.com:</p>
  1213. <p begin="00:58:01.696" end="00:58:03.403">thank you, as always, for your time.</p>
  1214. <p begin="00:58:03.403" end="00:58:04.550">And thank you, James.</p>
  1215. <p begin="00:58:04.550" end="00:58:07.137">&#9834; (theme music) &#9834; <br/>(James -- voiceover): This video </p>
  1216. <p begin="00:58:07.137" end="00:58:10.434">is brought to you by the subscribers <br/>of BoilingFrogsPost.com.</p>
  1217. <p begin="00:58:10.434" end="00:58:12.572">For more information on this<br/>and other topics,</p>
  1218. <p begin="00:58:12.572" end="00:58:14.224">please go to BoilingFrogsPost.com. </p>
  1219. <p begin="00:58:14.224" end="00:58:16.896">For more information and commentary <br/>from James Corbett,</p>
  1220. <p begin="00:58:16.896" end="00:58:18.727">please go to CorbettReport.com.</p>
  1221. <p begin="00:58:18.727" end="00:58:20.279">[Captions by "Adjuvant"]<br/>[CC-BY 4.0]</p>
  1222. </div>
  1223. </body>
  1224. </tt>
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