Nixon Petersen Watergate Investigation April 16 1973

Audio file for this conversation can be found at nixonlibrary.gov:
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/forresearchers/find/tapes/tape038/038-082.flac

Transcript is by uploader.

Clip with audio and accompanying transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntnaxK6lOoY

APRIL 16, 1973: NIXON AND PETERSEN, 8:58-9:14 A.M., CAMP DAVID TELEPHONE

The President now knows that the Watergate scandal may engulf him. John Dean will testify to the grand jury about the involvement of White House staff in the cover-up. Dean has already told the President that his two top aides, H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, will most likely be going to jail. In this conversation, Assistant Attorney General Henry Petersen, shares far too much about the on-going investigation with the man who was behind the cover-up. Fred LaRue, friend and assistant to former Attorney General John Mitchell, has already starteed confessing and told Mitchell that it's all over. LaRue was at the fateful meeting in Key Biscayne in which the plan for breaking into Democratic headquarters was presented. Though LaRue hasn't admitted that Mitchell signed off on the project, he has admitted that it couldn't have gone ahead without Mitchell's approval. Petersen shares with the President what he expects to happen next, such as Judge Sirica personally interrogating the suspects, and what he knows of the process of the cover-up.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hello?

PETERSEN: Yes sir, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Check it out with your kids?

PETERSEN: Oh, they're here and we got together with them.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, that's good.

PETERSEN: They all just called it, "The president's going right on the news at nine o'clock."

PRESIDENT NIXON: (laughs) Well, I wanted to get you in bed earlier than last night. And I want to get to bed too. Let me say first, that, uh, I just want to know if there are any developments that I should know about, and second, that of course anything you tell me, I think I told you earlier, will not be passed on.

PETERSEN: I understand, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Because I know the rules of the grand jury.

PETERSEN: Now. LaRue [Fred LaRue, John Mitchell's friend and assistant] was in. And LaRue was rather pitiful. He came down with O'Brien [Paul O'Brien, lawyer with the president's re-election committee]. And said, "do you want private counsel and do what you did." He told John Mitchell that it was all over.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He said he told John Mitchell that?

PETERSEN: Yes. He, LaRue, admits to participating in the subornation and obstruction of justice. He admits being present...Dean says he was, at the third meeting.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who was present at the meeting, Henry? I don't remember.

PETERSEN: He and Mitchell.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He and Mitchell alone?

PETERSEN: And he says-

PRESIDENT NIXON: LaRue and Mitchell? I didn't...meeting I seem to have missed. Dean was not there at that meeting.

PETERSEN: Dean tells us about it. I'm not quite certain if Dean was present or not. The meeting was down at Florida.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh that. I heard about a meeting, I think you told me about that.

PETERSEN: And he's reluctant to say, at this point, that Mitchell specifically authorized the budget for the meccaniche dropping at that point. But I think he's going to come around...going to John Mitchell. He admits that it could not have been activated without Mitchell's approval however. O'Brien they didn't get to. He called back around five o'clock, and said he was having difficulty getting a lawyer. He finally got a lawyer in Colson's law partner.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Colson's law partner?

PETERSEN: Yeah. The United States Attorney's Office took issue with it, and threatened to go to the judge on a conflict, and then he-

PRESIDENT NIXON: -got another one.

PETERSEN: -he got another lawyer. He'll be back tomorrow.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, you got two today with LaRue.

PETERSEN: Now, the- on additional information-

PRESIDENT NIXON: LaRue had said he had told Mitchell that it was all over-

PETERSEN: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: When did he do that?

PETERSEN: Just recently. Today, yesterday, day before.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see.

PETERSEN: Throw in the sponge. We talked earlier today about this Ehrlichman. Now, a little additional detail on that. Liddy confessed to Dean on June 19.

PRESIDENT NIXON: June 19.

PETERSEN: Dean then told Ehrlichman.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Liddy confessed that he...the deal, or what?

PETERSEN: That he was present at Watergate. Then you also asked about Colson. Colson and Dean were together with Ehrlichman when Ehrlichman advised about the...Hunt to get out of town. Thereafter...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Colson was there?

PETERSEN: Colson was there. So he's going to be in the grand jury.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmhmmm.

PETERSEN: With respect to Haldeman, another matter. In connection with the payments, money, after June 17, Mitchell approved Dean to activate Kalmbach. Dean said he didn't have that authority, and he went to Haldeman. Haldeman gave him the authority. He then got in touch with Kalmbach to raise the money, the details of which we really don't know as yet.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right.

PETERSEN: So Kalmbach is also going to a grand jury...to be called. And I think those are the only additional developments.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What is your situation with regard to negotiation with Dean and your negotiation with regard to Magruder?

PETERSEN: Well, they...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Trying to get the timing, you see, with regard to whatever I say.

PETERSEN: Magruder's lawyers are still waiting to get back to us. They're very much concerned with Judge Sirica. And they're not so much concerned about Erwin. Now, their immediate concern is Sirica and they want that ironed out first.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What do they want ironed out?

PETERSEN: That he won't go to jail before the rest of them.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oof. I see. If he confesses.

PETERSEN: That's right. That's pending...with Judge Sirica.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Which you gotta have, I suppose.

PETERSEN: Titus [Harold Titus, Justice Department Attorney] knows him better than any of us. Titus will probably handle that aspect of it. Gotta be done, he's liable to blast us all publicly.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Sirica, right.

PETERSEN: And then we'll see, then we'll take up the Erwin...

PRESIDENT NIXON: Doesn't seem to be a major issue. Main thing is Sirica is concerned. Erwin thing will become moot, in my opinion.

PETERSEN: The other concern we have on that issue is, how we charge.

PRESIDENT NIXON: How we charge...

PETERSEN: ...in terms of Magruder, in terms of the prejudicial publicity, and naming the individuals. One of the things that concerns us is, is we don't feel we oughta put Haldeman, Ehrlichman in there, as unindicted co-conspirators at this point, but we're afraid not to. If we don't, and it gets out, you know, it's going to look like a big cover-up again. We're having to wrestle our way through that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Whether you indict Haldeman and Ehrlichman along with the others, huh?

PETERSEN: Well, we'd name them at this point only as unindicted co-conspirators. If anybody's named as an unindicted co-conspirator in that indictment is, in all probability, going to be indicted later on.

PRESIDENT NIXON: So, you gotta make a determination-

PETERSEN: Secondary issue is if we're going to have enough corroboration to make those statements.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That statement would be made, uh, as I understand it, uh, you were telling me, if uh...

PETERSEN: In open court.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You mean, in open court, you'd make a statement, the others you'd name them at that time?

PETERSEN: Well, no, we wouldn't do it in those terms. We'd simply do it in terms of feeding the facts to the court.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That would be done publicly. Would you name Mitchell then too?

PETERSEN: Well, we would have to. You see the problem is-

PRESIDENT NIXON: It would all be done in open court.

PETERSEN: That's right. Once we do that, or even if we don't, Sirica's habit and custom, and he's certainly going to do it in this case, is to interrogate the defendant himself.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right. The defendant who pleads guilty.

PETERSEN: That's right. If he interrogates Magruder, then leaves out the Ehrlichman Haldeman facts, and we haven't mentioned them or included them in the conspiracy charge, then we're all going to have a black eye.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I get your point.

PETERSEN: So these are the things we're trying to work out.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (laughs) You got quite a plate full, you probably won't get it tomorrow, will you?

PETERSEN: I doubt it. I doubt it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmhmmm. What about Dean now, in his case, you're still negotiating, huh?

PETERSEN: We're still tying down facts with him. We want to get as much as we can.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Basically with him, you gotta get enough facts to justify giving him immunity, right?

PETERSEN: To make the decision, yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Depends on how much he tells you, is that it?

PETERSEN: Right. And how much of it- More than that, how much we can corroborate.

PRESIDENT NIXON: If you can't corroborate enough, he doesn't get off, is that it?

PETERSEN: Well, if we can't corroborate it, that's right, we can't very well immunize him, put him head to head against a witness who's going to beat him.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see. His people are playing pretty tough with you, then.

PETERSEN: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I guess we'd do that too, I suppose.

PETERSEN: I think so.

PRESIDENT NIXON: -for him to do that. Let me see if I get the facts in...you'll have Strachan in tomorrow?

PETERSEN: Yes, we expect him to come in with his lawyer.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Second point is, that, let me see, the 19th you say, Dean says...

PETERSEN: On the 19th, Liddy confessed to Dean.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Dean says that.

PETERSEN: Dean says that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Liddy confessed to him, and he told Ehrlichman.

PETERSEN: He told Ehrlichman.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmmm. That's a new fact, isn't it?

PETERSEN: Yes sir. That's a triply important fact, I think. New disclosure made by either one of them.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Either Dean or Ehrlichman.

PETERSEN: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmmm. Dean say this?

PETERSEN: He called me this evening. I'm not quite sure when Dean said it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You see, the point is, Dean didn't tell me that. That's the thing that discourages me.

PETERSEN: Well, Mr. President you have to remember, that we're debriefing him on what transpired over the last eighteeen months.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see.

PETERSEN: It's very difficult to get it all in-

PRESIDENT NIXON: I know, I'm not talking about you, but I'm talking about what he didn't tell me, you see. That's a key fact that he should have told me, isn't it.

PETERSEN: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmmm. Hmmmhmmm. And let's see, the 19th...and uh, the Haldeman thing, you have there again, so I get that in my mind.

PETERSEN: Let me got back over my notes, the principal thing that I wanted to point out to you on Haldeman is that Dean went to Haldeman to get authority to go to Kalmbach-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Oh yes. Yesyesyes. After Mitchell told him to go to Haldeman.

PETERSEN: Mitchell told Dean to simply activate Kalmbach to handle the money.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see.

PETERSEN: Dean then went to Haldeman. To get the authority to contact Kalmbach-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Come in!

PETERSEN: And thereafter, Kalmbach took care of the money. Now, details on the $350,000 dollars which you knew about-

PRESIDENT NIXON: I knew about the fund, I didn't know how it all went. (Unintelligible.)

PETERSEN: That is related to us as money over which Haldeman exercised control. That money was delivered to LaRue to be used for payments. A portion of it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Some of it. Right. I think Haldeman would say that's true. I think he would, I don't know, we'll see. You should ask, I guess, Kalmbach.

PETERSEN: The point of it is, it went to LaRue, instead of going to the Committee [Committee to Re-Elect the President] directly. And Haldeman and LaRue apparently did not give a receipt. Haldeman had requested it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think that LaRue was the...at least the member of the finance committee, I think that was the point...I asked Haldeman, "Who'd this money go to?", he said, "It went to LaRue." LaRue was a member of the committee, of Stans' committee, I don't know what that is. Is that correct, or do you know that?

PETERSEN: I don't know that. All I know is, he works for John Mitchell. I'll check on that though.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Went to Mitchell?

PETERSEN: I said, all I know is LaRue worked for Mitchell.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah. I think he worked for the finance committee, but you oughta check that out.

PETERSEN: I will.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Kay, the main thing I need, of course is something on...wait, you're not going to have anything tomorrow, put them in court-

PETERSEN: I don't think so.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Tomorrow, you'll just continue to develop the evidence.

PETERSEN: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I think, therefore, no statement would be in order, at the present time. Against one today, it just didn't seem to be, I thought it would, I just had to make my own determination, I thought it would jeopardize maybe the prosecution you know, who knows.

PETERSEN: (Unintelligible.) More questions than answers.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's right. We don't want to say anything until there's a big break in the case, and everybody starts-

PETERSEN: I'll tell you one thing, Mr. President, you oughta know. I had a call from Ron Ostrow of the L.A. Times.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Hmmmhmmm.

PETERSEN: Decent man and a reasonably good acquaintance. I think a reporter of character, if there are any.

PRESIDENT NIXON: (laughs)

PETERSEN: And he said that they had reports out on the White House that you said, his words, two or three people in the White House were going to be thrown to the wolves. And he asked, "Is there anything to it?" I said, "There isn't anything I can tell you about it." I just can't say anything about it. I don't want to confirm it, I don't want to deny it.

PRESIDENT NIXON: So they're going to write a story on that.

PETERSEN: I don't know. But I mention it only because it's...

PRESIDENT NIXON: It's out, yeah.

PETERSEN: It's beginning to percolate.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Must have come from, where, the U.S. Attorney's office, you think?

PETERSEN: I doubt it, because, I had not told them. Unless they drew their own conjectures. Made their own conjectures.

PRESIDENT NIXON: U.S. Attorney...Hmmmhmmm...they're thinking in terms of the Haldeman-Ehrlichman thing, and Dean, I suppose.

PETERSEN: I don't know what he was thinking about.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Where does the Colson thing come in again? I didn't get that one down.

PETERSEN: Colson was present when Ehrlichman issued the order for Hunt to get out of the country.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I get it fine. Okay, so you call him too.

PETERSEN: Yes sir.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Right. K, if anything comes up, call me, even if it's the middle of the night, okay?

PETERSEN: I will indeed.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Thank you.

PETERSEN: Thank you.