DF Game Club: Papo & Yo (part 2 plus devchat)

(06:38:48) Permafry_42: Hi Cheese!
(06:39:32) Cheeseness: Hey hey
(06:39:52) Cheeseness: Rommel from Minority Media says he's going to try to join us if he can :)
(06:40:06) Permafry_42: Chat says he's already in the chat room
(06:41:02) Cheeseness: Oh, hi Minority_Rommel :D
(06:42:41) Syd [Mibbit@hide-50DE3BC8.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] entered the room.
(06:43:04) Cheeseness: Hey Syd
(06:43:15) Permafry_42: Hi Syd!
(06:43:15) Syd: Hey
(06:43:26) Minority_Rommel: Hi Cheese :)
(06:43:33) Cheeseness: Glad you could make it
(06:44:25) Minority_Rommel: Glad to be here
(06:45:10) Fhqwhgod [Mibbit@hide-E477651F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room.
(06:45:32) Fhqwhgod: hats are awesome
(06:45:39) Cheeseness: I pre-record the intro and outro, so apologies for not introducing you
(06:45:42) Cheeseness: Hey Fhqwhgod
(06:46:03) Fhqwhgod: Hey cheese.
(06:46:05) Permafry_42: I love hats too =D
(06:46:32) Permafry_42: I tried to avoid getting them when i did the test run so that I could get them during the tream
(06:46:35) Permafry_42: *stream
(06:47:41) Minority_Rommel: Wait, are you podcasting at the same time?
(06:48:07) Cheeseness: We stream the game in the background and have a voice intro and outro
(06:48:17) Cheeseness: Which we normally use to introduce guests and stuff
(06:48:29) Minority_Rommel: oh ok, that's cool :)
(06:48:54) Cheeseness: Are you on Twitter, Minority_Rommel?
(06:50:11) Minority_Rommel: I host Minority's account on Twitter @we_are_minority
(06:50:19) Cheeseness: Cheers :)
(06:52:27) Permafry_42: So I think i found what was partly to blame for the stream going in and out in the past. Hopefully the stream should be more stable now.
(06:52:51) Minority_Rommel: What's the link to the stream?
(06:53:15) flesk: Hi.
(06:53:20) Cheeseness: It should automatically appear on the Game Club web page
(06:53:41) Cheeseness: But if that's givign you any trouble at all, the Twitch account is here http://www.twitch.tv/dfgameclub/
(06:53:47) Cheeseness: (although we use this chat)
(06:53:52) Permafry_42: For today I'm planning to play until the end of chaper 4, leaving the last chapter for next week
(06:53:59) Cheeseness: Okeydokey
(06:54:22) Permafry_42: (We already got through chapter 1 and a little more than half of chapter 2 last week)
(06:54:42) flesk: Minority_Rommel: You wouldn't happen to know why the Linux version of Papo & Yo isn't on Steam? Steam integration works with the DRM free version on Humble Bundle, so it seems like it shouldn't be much work to put it on Steam.
(06:55:19) Minority_Rommel: Ah, the classic question! :P
(06:55:35) flesk: I mean like achievements and displaying that you're in game. Those things work.
(06:55:41) flesk: You hear that a lot?
(06:55:57) Cheeseness: Ha ha, we've got a few Linux users in here (myself included! :D )
(06:56:51) Cake [Mibbit@hide-1544CE8F.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(06:56:57) Permafry_42: Hi Cake!
(06:57:03) Cake: hello! ^^
(06:57:18) Cheeseness: Hey Cake
(06:57:25) Cheeseness: Hey beansmyname ^_^
(06:57:36) beansmyname: Hey Cheeseness! o/
(06:57:57) Permafry_42: Hi beansmynae!
(06:58:08) Permafry_42: *beansmyname
(06:58:51) Nemoder [Mibbit@BA841B0.14033B26.59B2A97B.IP] entered the room.
(06:58:54) Cheeseness: Hey Nemoder
(06:58:59) Nemoder: \o/
(06:59:10) Permafry_42: Hi Nemoder!
(06:59:30) Minority_Rommel: flesk, it was a matter of which resources we were able to pool where. It's still on our to-do list. ;)
(06:59:33) Nemoder: I heard somebody mentioned linux
(06:59:40) Cheeseness: heh
(06:59:50) beansmyname: Hi Permafry!
(06:59:54) beansmyname: Nemoder!
(07:00:41) Cheeseness: Minority_Rommel: If there's anything we can do to help raise enthusiasm/priority for that particular task, let us know ^_^
(07:00:54) flesk: Minority_Rommel: Good to hear. :) It doesn't matter much to me personality (other than that it would be convenient), but it seems like you're missing out on the added visibility you'd get from having a Linux version there.
(07:01:14) Nemoder: This game is one of the most solid Linux ports I've played, would be great to see it on steam too
(07:01:25) Cheeseness: Definitely the most solid UE3 title
(07:01:27) Permafry_42: Out of curiosity Rommel, do you know why you aren't able to collect hats on the first run of the game?
(07:01:45) Minority_Rommel: flesk, I know! :) Believe me, we all wish we had clones in the closet!
(07:01:47) Nemoder left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(07:02:04) Cheeseness: Permafry_42: Are we nearly ready to start? ^_^
(07:02:11) Nemoder [Mibbit@BA841B0.14033B26.59B2A97B.IP] entered the room.
(07:02:19) Permafry_42: Yup; want me to start now then?
(07:02:27) Fhqwhgod: do eeet
(07:02:27) Cheeseness: Yeah, let's do it!
(07:03:14) Permafry_42: Sounds good, starting in 3
(07:03:16) Permafry_42: 2
(07:03:19) Permafry_42: 1
(07:03:33) Permafry_42: k let me know when you see the logo
(07:03:53) Cheeseness: Looks good :)
(07:04:11) Syd: Yeah, it's livfe
(07:04:19) Syd: *live
(07:04:28) Cheeseness: heh, we should allow time for the ad to finish for those who aren't using adblock
(07:04:57) Minority_Rommel: Permafry_42 The hats were meant as a funny relief from the more serious tone of the story. We thought that including them on the first run would distract from the story. So, we thought it would be cool to add a bit of replay value.
(07:05:16) Permafry_42: makes sense
(07:05:22) GameClubFan_414670 [Mibbit@hide-DCBBEA31.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(07:05:23) Syd: You'd think Twitch would run ads at the bottom of the player like Youtube does instead of totally blocking the screen with them.
(07:05:30) Cheeseness: I felt a bit like an indication that the dolls would do something later would have helped. It felt a bit confusing to not get any feedback when discovering them for the first time
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(07:05:36) Cheeseness: Syd: I know, right
(07:06:41) Cheeseness: This house tilty puzzle was a bit fun
(07:06:48) Permafry_42: yeah love it
(07:07:45) Permafry_42: love that graffiti btw
(07:08:43) Minority_Rommel: The graffiti art is actual real-life graffiti pieces
(07:08:52) Cheeseness: Where was it sampled from?
(07:09:18) Minority_Rommel: We bought licenses from several graffiti artists from throughout Latin America
(07:09:39) Minority_Rommel: And they agree to have their pieces put into the game
(07:09:43) Minority_Rommel: *agreed
(07:09:49) Cheeseness: Ah, that's so nice to hear - most people wouldn't bother trying to licence art that's in public spaces
(07:09:58) Sven_Q45 [Mibbit@hide-F5A41769.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room.
(07:10:03) Cheeseness: Hey Sven_Q45
(07:10:04) Syd: Hey Sven_Q45
(07:10:08) Sven_Q45: Again too late. :(
(07:10:10) Sven_Q45: Hi.
(07:10:11) Minority_Rommel: Basically, all the graffiti you see exists in a city somewhere in Latin America :)
(07:10:36) Minority_Rommel: Hi Sven_Q45
(07:10:41) Cheeseness: Are the artists credited?
(07:11:34) Sven_Q45: Hi.-
(07:12:15) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness hmm, good question. Don't remember if they're in the end-of-game credits, but we've made sure to give them props on the Internetz, like here: http://www.weareminority.com/in-papo-yo-graffiti-is-part-of-the-experience/
(07:12:41) Cheeseness: Ah, sweet. Thanks for the link!
(07:13:11) Glog78 [~Oknown_an@hide-1DEB7EEA.pools.vodafone-ip.de] entered the room.
(07:13:12) Minority_Rommel: sure thing
(07:13:17) Cheeseness: Hi Glog78
(07:13:32) Glog78: Hi Cheese how are you doing ?
(07:13:43) Cheeseness: Not to bad - we're just chatting about Papo & Yo ^_^
(07:13:55) GameClubFan_842415 [Mibbit@hide-6BB89FF5.baf.movistar.cl] entered the room.
(07:14:28) Glog78: It's in my library never played it much i think
(07:14:29) Permafry_42: what was the idea for the surrealist puzzles?
(07:14:34) Permafry_42: *from
(07:15:10) Cheeseness: Minority_Rommel: There's a bug that myself and many other Linux users (maybe all?) seem to have encountered where Monster's head will get a bad pose(it gets spun around into his armpit). Is that a known issue? If not, where's the best place to report that? :D
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(07:15:45) Cheeseness: The bendy turf is pretty cool
(07:15:46) Minority_Rommel: Permafry_42 in the puzzles, we wanted to go back to what it was like being kids, using our imagination, creating worlds from simple things like chalk and cardboard boxes
(07:16:04) Cheeseness: The chalk scribble style is so charming
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(07:16:16) Sven_Q45: Cheeseness The best place is the DF game club. ;)
(07:16:24) Cheeseness: heh
(07:16:50) Cheeseness: I thought this spinning key puzzle was neat - a bit distanced from the other stuff in the game so far
(07:16:57) Permafry_42: never saw the lose animation before
(07:16:59) Cheeseness: Although it'd be a nightmare for anybody with a lot frame rate
(07:17:20) beansmyname: Actually, lower frame rate made it easier. :D
(07:17:29) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness didn't know Monster was a contortionist! I can ask the programmers this week, if they've heard about Monster being into yoga on the Linux version.
(07:17:37) Cheeseness: Cheers :D
(07:18:23) Permafry_42: i've bee forgetting to get the hats XD
(07:18:25) Cheeseness: beansmyname: Did you get a screenshot at all?
(07:18:38) Minority_Rommel: Sorry not sorry about saying this, but I say this at least once any time I see someone play Papo & Yo: I love Quico ::)
(07:18:44) Cheeseness: :D
(07:19:07) beansmyname: No, but I will. Saw it again when Monster was angry and was too busy running away.
(07:19:09) Cheeseness: He makes me a little sad
(07:19:27) Minority_Rommel: Me too Cheeseness
(07:19:44) Cheeseness: It feels very much that the game that we play through is an escapist fantasy
(07:20:13) beansmyname: I love this stage!
(07:20:18) Cheeseness: Yeah, this was neat
(07:20:47) Cheeseness: Box hat is best hat
(07:20:57) beansmyname: This game does so many things right. Varying puzzles, moderate difficulty, good cues to keep the player headed in the right direction, lots of feels.
(07:21:04) Cheeseness: I haven't tried, but can you do this without triggering the frogs?
(07:21:08) Cheeseness: Yeah
(07:21:26) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness in a way, it is. This is someone I don't get to talk about very often in gaming circles, but children that grow up in poor households in Latin America often invent and play games to forget their problems, like being hungry, or not wanting to go home to an abusive parent, for instance.
(07:21:41) Cheeseness: Right
(07:22:06) Cheeseness: It's almost a little distressing to play through, but at the same time it's very charming
(07:22:10) Cheeseness: That's a powerful combination
(07:22:13) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness the idea of Quico escaping through a closet into his mind came from that.
(07:23:35) Minority_Rommel: The first time I played and came across a cardboard hint box, seeing Quico putting it on his head instantly reminded me of myself.
(07:24:10) Cheeseness: Minority_Rommel: Do you know whether the Linux port used the vendor provided Linux version of Wwise, or whether workarounds emulating Wwise functionality were used like Frozenbyte did for Trine 2?
(07:25:12) Cheeseness: There's something poignant about "fun" representing unpleasant situations and vice versa
(07:25:23) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness unfortunately, I don't know.
(07:25:32) beansmyname: There's your answer to the frog trigger, Cheeseness.
(07:25:34) Cheeseness: Lula :(
(07:25:41) Cheeseness: beansmyname: Oh, I meant from the pipe
(07:25:45) Cheeseness: And it seems it is!
(07:26:12) Cheeseness: I'm pretty sure I mispronounced Alejandra's name in the intro >_<
(07:26:52) Cheeseness: Coming back to this area at this point really makes Lula being broken resonate, I think
(07:27:07) Cheeseness: Especially with that Lula switch down there
(07:27:49) beansmyname: For me, it was Monster's lack of recognition for the act that hurt.
(07:28:00) Cheeseness: Yeah :(
(07:28:10) Cheeseness: Monster seems oblivious to everything though
(07:28:21) beansmyname: Throughout the entire game that theme was personal to me. Monster doesn't recognize the consequences of his actions.
(07:28:43) Permafry_42: i like the rotten friut art
(07:28:54) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness a reflection of how oblivious we can be to who we hurt when we are under the influence of an addition
(07:29:09) Cheeseness: Yeah :(
(07:30:18) Cheeseness: To me there's a little ambiguity about whether Monster's obliviousness is a result of his nature, or whether that's a factor of Quico's father not being present in Quico's fantasies
(07:30:31) Cheeseness: Both are sad and show a lack of empathy
(07:30:47) Minority_Rommel: Right on
(07:31:10) beansmyname: Permafry_42 makes this look really easy.
(07:31:26) Cheeseness: heh, I struggled here - I didn't realise that I needed to throw a frog in there
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(07:31:42) Minority_Rommel: mmm the football field
(07:31:58) Sven_Q45: Interesting. But only today: http://www.amazon.de/MojoTouch-Simon-Sorcerer-20th-Anniversary/dp/B00F2C9KIE/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1413654247&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=simon+the+sorcerer+20th+Anniversary+Edition
(07:32:00) Cheeseness: Oh, nice move Permafry_42. I had to do a lot of running around
(07:32:34) Permafry_42: took awhile to figure it out
(07:33:50) Cheeseness: I get a crash when throwing the second frog in the pipe here, but I haven't had time to look through logs and working out what's going on
(07:34:04) Cheeseness: I wonder how many people played this game and found it confronting
(07:34:16) beansmyname: How so?
(07:35:44) Cheeseness: There are some pretty heavy themes in here for people who're effected by the stuff that it's an allegory for
(07:36:25) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness based on the emails in my inbox, a lot of people :)
(07:36:45) beansmyname: Ahh, yes. There are definite triggers in here but I find that the game approaches them in a way that makes it almost therapeutic to play through.
(07:36:59) Cheeseness: I feel very thankful that I'm not, but Quico's screams still give me chills (amazing voice acting there on the part of Mateo Bellefleur
(07:37:46) beansmyname: Avoiding Quico's screams is one of the reasons I didn't catch the "yoga" screenshot.
(07:38:03) Cheeseness: Not directly impacted on by the stuff that the game represents, that is^
(07:38:24) Minority_Rommel: It's another kind of difficulty level: although on the gameplay level, Papo is straightforward, on the emotional aspect, many people find that it's at God-level
(07:38:39) GameClubFan_565831 [Mibbit@hide-13A7AA72.gdynia.mm.pl] entered the room.
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(07:39:37) Cheeseness: The anamiation was mocapped right?
(07:41:09) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness I'm not sure for the original PSN version, but not for the PC/Linux/Mac ports.
(07:41:23) Cheeseness: They would've used the same animation, I'd assume?
(07:42:02) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness Quico's animation on the ports is more fluid and improved, and his face is animated, unlike the PSN version. But the improvements were not mocapped.
(07:42:14) Cheeseness: Ah, I see. Nice :)
(07:42:52) Permafry_42: i remember messing this part up a lot when i played the psn version
(07:43:06) Permafry_42: forgot to get rid of frogs
(07:43:14) Nemoder: what were the hardest parts to create design-wise?
(07:43:15) Minority_Rommel: I've never tried playing Papo on multiple monitors. Has anyone tried?
(07:43:27) Cheeseness: I have multiple monitors, but I play everything windowed
(07:44:16) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder you mean from the technical point of view, or creative-wise?
(07:44:32) Nemoder: creative
(07:44:44) Syd: I don't have enough monitors for playing a game across multiple screens. Since I only have two, the bezel would be right in the middle.
(07:45:16) Cheeseness: You definitely feel hampered without Lula whilst platforming
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(07:46:01) Permafry_42: hats make this scene a bit more silly lol
(07:46:05) Cheeseness: lol
(07:46:41) Permafry_42: its interesting that anger is used to save lula
(07:46:54) Minority_Rommel [Mibbit@hide-20EB788B.mc.videotron.ca] entered the room.
(07:46:59) Cheeseness: Welcome back, Minority_Rommel
(07:47:00) Minority_Rommel: Sorry, browser crashed :/
(07:47:06) Cheeseness: Darn
(07:47:13) Cheeseness: Permafry_42 was just saying that it's interesting that anger is used to save Lula
(07:48:30) Cheeseness: The music is pretty cool
(07:48:32) GameClubFan_612747 [Mibbit@hide-5B0AA96D.dk.customer.tdc.net] entered the room.
(07:48:39) Minority_Rommel: Permafry_42 how so?
(07:48:58) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder I'm sorry, my browser crashed, can you re-elaborate on your design question?
(07:49:14) Nemoder: ah, what was the hardest creative design to come up with?
(07:49:20) Permafry_42: it was also anger that killed lula; more of a story question than anything else
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(07:52:20) Cheeseness: Quico's willingness to manipulate Monster feels a little un-empathetic as well
(07:52:54) Cheeseness: This game has sadness on so many levels
(07:53:05) Permafry_42: the cutscenes in this section are fantastic
(07:53:06) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder I think that from Vander's perspective (Vander is our creative director for this game), the hardest in creative design wasn't technical, but more about how the design could be used to convey his personal experiences as a child.
(07:53:10) beansmyname: I disagree. I think it's Quico's attempt to convert something horrible into something positive.
(07:53:43) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder as for what was harder design-wise, I think that each one of our artists had a different challenge at that level.
(07:54:09) Cheeseness: beansmyname: To me it feels that they're not on the same wavelenth though, that neither of them, that they're not really comprehending what's going on in each other's lives/worlds
(07:54:13) Nemoder: ya that makes sense, I'm a bit lost on what some of the levels are trying to convey, though the emotional part of it always comes through pretty well
(07:54:28) Minority_Rommel: Permafry_42 one way of seeing it is a different take on one's desire for revenge when something/someone we deeply cherish is taken from us
(07:54:29) Cheeseness: (you can have good intentions without being empathetic)
(07:54:40) beansmyname: ahh, understood.
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(07:58:03) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder personally, I like to hear how different people experience the levels. It always changes based on their experiences. It's also a challenge for us to tell a story from the perspective of a boy who grows up and lives in a place often unfamiliar to players.
(07:58:14) Sven_Q45 [Mibbit@hide-F5A41769.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room.
(07:58:22) Sven_Q45: Heck I need a new mouse!
(07:59:06) beansmyname: Monster beating his chest as show of strength after tossing Quico is one of those little touches that make this game such a wonder for me.
(07:59:23) Cheeseness: Yeah...
(07:59:35) Cheeseness: It's terrifying though
(08:00:02) Cheeseness: Does it represent some pride on Monster's part, or Quico's assumption that it's conscious/intentional behaviour
(08:02:24) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness child beating is something still widespread in Latin American culture. My interpretation, from personal experience, of Monster's chest beating is Quico's dad saying "I'm the boss in this household. You're just a kid."
(08:03:03) Sven_Q45: Why is there nearly every week (:D) a firework?
(08:03:09) Minority_Rommel: Cheeseness So I guess it's a bit of both
(08:03:17) Cheeseness: Yeah
(08:04:03) Minority_Rommel: Trivia: Alejandra's language is not an existing language
(08:04:14) Cheeseness: Hmm, interesting!
(08:04:36) Syd: I gotta head out a bit early. See you all around!
(08:04:37) Minority_Rommel: Though I wish it were. Sounds pretty cool
(08:04:43) Cheeseness: Thanks for coming Syd
(08:04:44) Syd left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(08:04:44) Minority_Rommel: Take care Syd
(08:05:20) beansmyname: Once again, Permafry_42 making it look really easy.
(08:05:38) Sven_Q45: Yes I guessed that it´s a fantasy language. :)
(08:05:46) Permafry_42: Thanks beans =D
(08:05:58) Minority_Rommel: I hate this part
(08:06:36) Permafry_42: we'll have to end it here
(08:06:43) beansmyname: Kudos for not showing her demise. Seems to make the moment that much more poignant.
(08:06:50) Cheeseness: Whelp, that makes me hope even more that Alejandro was Quico's imaginary friend
(08:06:58) Permafry_42: Thanks to everyone for joining us!
(08:07:05) beansmyname: Good place to stop. Thanks for streaming, Permafry_42!
(08:07:09) Cheeseness: Permafry_42: Did you get the updated outro?
(08:07:14) Cheeseness: Ha, that's a nope
(08:07:23) Minority_Rommel: Was cool hanging out with y'all
(08:07:24) Permafry_42: oh sorry XD
(08:07:26) Cheeseness: Thanks heaps for coming, Minority_Rommel!
(08:07:27) beansmyname: Thanks for joining us, Minority_Rommel!
(08:07:31) Glog78: thanx alot
(08:07:36) Cheeseness: Thanks for streaming, Permafry_42
(08:07:36) Minority_Rommel: Thanks for having me over!
(08:07:49) Permafry_42: Yeah extra thank yous to Rommel =D
(08:07:56) Minority_Rommel: Have a great weekend y'all
(08:08:02) Cheeseness: Cheers!
(08:08:10) Cheeseness: Everybody is welcome to hang around and continue chatting about the game, of course
(08:08:11) flesk: Thanks Minority_Rommel and Permafry_42.
(08:08:12) Minority_Rommel: Thank you :)
(08:08:28) flesk: And Cheeseness for organizing things.
(08:08:33) Cheeseness: And I'd like to encourage everybody to leave some thoughts on the game in the forum thread :D http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/15040/
(08:08:36) Nemoder: when is papo & yo 2 -- The Happy Ending coming out? ;)
(08:08:45) Minority_Rommel: I'll be heading off, still lots to do! But I loved hanging out and chilling for a second!
(08:08:55) beansmyname: Yes, thank you Cheeseness for organizing and inviting Minority_Rommel.
(08:09:05) Permafry_42: I can't wait to play the ios game when it gets its pc release
(08:09:06) Minority_Rommel: Nemoder I keep getting that question ;) My lips are sealed :P
(08:09:12) Cheeseness: As always, a pleasure ^_^
(08:09:13) Nemoder: =)
(08:10:13) Minority_Rommel: A great evening to everyone, see you around!
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(08:12:23) beansmyname left the room (quit: Quit: they say he found peace at the end).
(08:13:16) Permafry_42: I'll be going too now. Thanks again for everyone who could join us!
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(08:13:44) Cheeseness: I'll wrap up the chat log. Thanks to everybody for coming :)