Peter Joseph Stefan Molyneux debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaP2GJvZlWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUtv5E6CkLE

PJ
14:51 at the root of our survival there's Malthusian presence
17:55 state is tool in the game of competition
21:24 necessity to draw power and discount well-being of others

	SM
	23:20 if you discount well-being of customers you're out of bussiness

PJ
25:26 scarcity and competition - that is true face of the market economy

	SM
	26:33 counters with government

PJ
27:58 of course it's government, natural outgrowth, there are no rules
coercion and voluntarism - these concepts are short-sighted, structural violence
34:00 is the result of gaming of competition and advantage
36:21 market system reinforces inequality more than anything else
39:13 mass murder originating from market system competitive propensity for growth and constant wealth imbalance

	SM
	39:25 income tax, how mass market engages in mass murder?

PJ
39:58 it creates inequality

	SM
	40:14 cellphones, market is trying to provide cheaper and better goods to the people
	inequality because of the growth of the state

PJ
42:03 inherent inequality, necessity for ppl to get advantage so they can survive at the expense of others

	SM
	43:31 how market is producing mass murder?

PJ
43:36 based on scarcity, assumption of having on gain at the possible expense of others

	SM
	43:44 market based on respect for property rights, non-initiation of force
	scarcity is a fact of nature

PJ
43:57 not as a fact of nature as it has been

	SM
	44:12 scarcity is not foundation of the free market, scarcity is a fact of reality

...

PJ
coming back to the point, this system perpetuates inequality
46:42 you're supposed to be put on the pedestal for gaining while others suffer

	SM
	46:59 in a free market you gain while other ppl suffer is foundationally incorrect
	exchange voluntarily we are both better off
	as long there's no force or fraud

PJ
49:06 in a vacuum this holds true
market coerces labour for income
act of trade is coercive because ppl have to trade to survive

	SM
	53:57 it's to their advantage to trade
	division of labour is economically productive
	55:20 free market is voluntary exchange and state is initiation of force

PJ
56:00 state is outgrowth of market
57:37 non-aggression principle becomes moot in the wake of what the system is generating
59:17 state is outgrowth of market
within the state there is mechanism of market
interest in self-preservation, differential advantage, basic gaming strategy

	SM
	59:58 market doesn't create the state, there is a competition because of the state
	in the free market it would not possible to do so

PJ
1:02:40 if the interest is there to create some type of power consolidation to maintain differential advantage

	SM
	1:03:20	in a free society it's expensive to create a state, render themselves uncompetitive

PJ
1:04:51 underlying ethic of the system these types of abuses
1:05:21 assuming that there's inevitable infallibility of the entrepreneurs
that if they see the state they are going to run and use it to their advantage
the very core value disorder inherent in they interest do that, to basically want coercion
implies that every single entrepreneur is interesting in gaining whatever type of advantage they can
the tendency of that is going to persist regardless [of the state]

	SM
	1:06:51 "not caring for the interest of others" - if you are a business owner you have a lot of ppl to worry about
	win-win for the customers and for you
	1:09:59 self-interest is wrapped up in the satisfaction of customers

PJ
1:11:55 system pressure generation predicated on scarcity
everyone is struggling for profit efficiency
there will be winners and losers

	SM
	1:14:14 you are freed up to do sth that is more productive

PJ
1:15:20 employees suffered extensively

...

	SM
	1:22:13	owners like to take care of their stuff, governments don't really care

PJ
1:27:10 if it's not structurally in then it's not going to manifest
you can't expect moral impositions to persevere in the wake of system that it's
predicated on the exact opposite incentive system

	SM
	1:29:22 governments are short-sighted when it comes to long-term economic sustainability

PJ
1:29:35 it doesn't matter who owns it
it matters what the process is and what is necessary to keep the profit going
1:32:45 battle for market share, war mentality, it might be very civil

	SM
	1:33:35 that kind of sociopathic mass murderer in the same category as someone who starts convenience store

PJ
1:33:48 it's the act of actual competition against others


[further on they keep repeating themselves]