[2:04:08 PM] Maruno: Do you think the way we survey the plot and all plot-related things should be left up to Anon? When we already have a plan for it?
[2:04:20 PM] Jabberwockxeno: ??
[2:04:30 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Why, is something going on in thread
[2:04:56 PM] Maruno: A couple of "muh Dicks Sue" shitposters.
[2:10:53 PM] empty: Maruno, yes.
[2:11:25 PM] empty: I also have no clue what muh Dick Sue is suppose to mean.
[2:11:54 PM] empty: Also, literally just this. Not all of plot. I never said that.
[2:12:03 PM] Maruno: "lol lets have Ricardo gatecrash the Elite Four and kick the Champion out of the way to battle you"
[2:12:11 PM] Maruno: Completely unrealistic behaviour.
[2:13:13 PM] Maruno: [2:12 PM] empty:

<<< Also, literally just this. Not all of plot. I never said that.The plan we have for "all of plot" includes the R/R part. You're still suggesting we change it just because some pillocks are whining.
[2:13:23 PM] Sam Spade: Shots fired at Notch.
[2:13:37 PM] Jabberwockxeno: I'm confused, maruno, what's going on, exactly?
[2:14:48 PM] empty: "lol lets act like assholes and ignore legitimate opinions of equal peers because me and another guy have an opinion and we want to keep our shitty oligarchy remaining"
[2:17:47 PM] Sam Spade: https://i.imgur.com/cE8PPsT.png
[2:18:00 PM] empty: I'm creating a survey regardless and I won't let this lie. Just thought I'd try to do this cooperatively in a usual manner first.
[2:18:15 PM] Jabberwockxeno: ?
[2:19:13 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Anyways, Maruno, I would explain WHY you are handling plot in the way you are handling it in more detail, in thread

Also, if people want the process to change, and it isn't retarded, I'd be open to changing it, depending on the merits of it
[2:19:23 PM] Maruno: You're not in Plotchat, you have nothing to do with it.
[2:20:05 PM] Maruno: The matter has only just been brought up. Try at least giving us a chance to discuss it first before you make some daft survey.
[2:20:45 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [2:19 PM] Maruno:

<<< You're not in Plotchat, you have nothing to do with it.Was this directed at me or empty?

In any case, both of you are acting a little hotheaded
[2:21:58 PM] Maruno: Empty, but I suppose it applies to you both.
[2:22:08 PM] Maruno: Jumping to a survey is definitely way too premature.
[2:23:20 PM] empty: Read the thread Majora. Or consult your memory.
[2:23:55 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [2:22 PM] Maruno:

<<< Jumping to a survey is definitely way too premature.agreed 100%
[2:24:00 PM] empty: I'd say it's post mature. People have voiced opinions to a no from the same two people for mor than a month.
[2:24:09 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [2:23 PM] empty:

<<< Read the thread Majora.I did
[2:24:41 PM] Jabberwockxeno: I think maruno should be more open to listneing to what they want, but I also think they and you need to understand more why plotchat has choosen to do it this way
[2:25:05 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Surveying plot is really fucking complex
[2:25:23 PM] Jabberwockxeno: I can apperciate that, I spent more then 5 months trying to do it
[2:25:28 PM] Jabberwockxeno: I know how hard it is
[2:26:11 PM] Maruno: I'm certainly open, but I haven't yet heard anyone give any reasons for changing the plan.
[2:26:39 PM] Maruno: They said consistency, I said it'll be resolved afterwards, nothing more was said.
[2:27:07 PM] Jabberwockxeno: well I also haven't had my daily caffine drinky yet, so I might be misunderstanding the thead
[2:27:13 PM] Jabberwockxeno: i'll re-read it in a few mins
[2:27:54 PM] Maruno: bbl, Doctor Who.
[2:29:41 PM] Sam Spade: Ew, Who
[2:34:30 PM] empty: You'd be missing 95% of the threads this has been brought up in if you think this thread is sufficient to gain an understanding.
[2:43:48 PM] Jabberwockxeno: http://i.4cdn.org/v/1411234462345.gif
[3:01:47 PM | Edited 3:03:38 PM] empty: What is the plot surveying procedure? Carson's latest post detailing the schedule does not align with the procedure outlined on the wiki page?
[3:06:14 PM] Carson Daly: basically it's exactly the same as it currently is, except on the listed chart on the wiki, it's hard to describe the way minor changes are happening
[3:06:22 PM] Carson Daly: but basically there will be constant minor change submissions throughout the NPC surveys
[3:06:40 PM] empty: The wiki explicitly says that NPC and minor changes submissions will be simultaneous
[3:06:50 PM] empty: Reality has explicitly not done that
[3:06:56 PM] empty: Is that the only change?
[3:07:30 PM] Carson Daly: NPC and Minor Changes can be simultaneous, there's nothing stopping that
[3:07:35 PM] Carson Daly: and in fact, they will be
[3:07:52 PM] Carson Daly: as Minor Change Series 2 submissions will be constant after Oct. 3 and will overlap with NPC submissions
[3:08:28 PM] empty: So same general timeline but steps all changed?
[3:08:34 PM] Carson Daly: no, not at all
[3:08:40 PM] Carson Daly: we finished the outline
[3:08:47 PM] empty: Then didn't follow it
[3:08:50 PM] Carson Daly: now we're starting minor changes
[3:09:15 PM] Carson Daly: we need to get the more 'major' minor changes out of the way before opening NPC submissions to make sure that NPCs don't get radically changed by the first round of minor changes
[3:09:43 PM] Carson Daly: then, once the biggest things have been modified (moving locations, cutting whole chunks of plot in and out, etc), we'll start NPC submissions and continue to allow minor changes submissions
[3:10:11 PM] Carson Daly: this way NPCs will be in line with the most popular minor changes (which would have been submitted and finished in Round 1), but we can still have a second round of minor changes if, after seeing who the NPCs end up being, people want to change things
[3:10:15 PM] Carson Daly: it's the best of both worlds
[3:17:40 PM] Carson Daly: it seems to me like a bunch of Ricardo fanboys wanted the entire plot to center around Ricardo, and now that none of the authors wrote that (and of course, they couldn't be assed to write it themselves), they're freaking out that Ricardo dominating the plot is becoming less and less feasible (even though technically, it could still totally happen)
[3:19:47 PM] empty: it seems to me like you're projecting with no knowledge of what people think because you haven't surveyed it
[3:19:55 PM] Carson Daly: we don't survey how to survey
[3:20:05 PM] Carson Daly: there are so far 0 legitimate reasons to put R/R before NPC
[3:20:12 PM] Jabberwockxeno: hey carson
[3:20:14 PM] empty: to you
[3:20:15 PM] Jabberwockxeno: i'm reading the thread
[3:20:25 PM] Carson Daly: no, at all
[3:20:26 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:20 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< there are so far 0 legitimate reasons to put R/R before NPCI agree with this
[3:20:27 PM] Carson Daly: there has not been a single one
[3:20:31 PM] Jabberwockxeno: carson
[3:20:32 PM] Jabberwockxeno: wait
[3:20:34 PM] Jabberwockxeno: hold on
[3:20:35 PM] Jabberwockxeno: pls
[3:20:37 PM] Carson Daly: feel free to give me one single good excuse whatsoever empty
[3:20:54 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:20 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< there are so far 0 legitimate reasons to put R/R before NPCI agree with this, but I also don't see a reason NOT to, They are totally unrelated and have 0 impact on each other
[3:20:57 PM] Jabberwockxeno: am I missing something?
[3:21:37 PM] Jabberwockxeno: also, that new dbz game confirmed for maste rrace
[3:21:39 PM] Jabberwockxeno: git hype carson
[3:22:06 PM] empty: [3:21 PM] Jabberwockxeno:

<<< [3:20 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< there are so far 0 legitimate reasons to put R/R before NPC— Carson Daly, Today 3:20 PMI agree with this, but I also don't see a reason NOT to, They are totally unrelated and have 0 impact on each otherTo you
[3:22:15 PM] Carson Daly: give me one
[3:22:17 PM] Carson Daly: any one reason
[3:22:19 PM] Carson Daly: any at all
[3:22:42 PM] Carson Daly: it's not that i haven't seen one i agreed with. i just haven't seen one at all
[3:22:49 PM] Sam Spade: Wonder when XV will go up on the Store
[3:23:22 PM] empty: give me a shred of something not indicative of oligarchical egomania
[3:23:26 PM] empty: any
[3:23:28 PM] empty: any at all
[3:24:49 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Can both of you stop being babbies
[3:24:55 PM] Jabberwockxeno: and give some of the pros and cons
[3:25:04 PM] Carson Daly: pros of doing NPC before R/R:
[3:25:52 PM] Carson Daly: -we already wrote what the characters do, so we need to find out who they are
-that way, since NPCs are actually part of the main plot (because the authors made them), they can be encompassed in main plot minor changes
-that way, the rounds of minor changes that must take place after NPC stuff won't be marred by the terrible shitstorm of focusing on R/R events
[3:26:13 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:25 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< -that way, the rounds of minor changes that must take place after NPC stuff won't be marred by the terrible shitstorm of focusing on R/R eventsclarify on this
[3:26:16 PM] Jabberwockxeno: give me an example
[3:26:42 PM] empty: give proof that will happen too
[3:26:43 PM] Carson Daly: once we determine who the Champ and ET Leader are, we will need to have a round of minor changes that allows for changes to the outline while taking those characters into account
[3:26:57 PM] Carson Daly: anons have openly stated that once R/R is included, that's all they'll vote on
[3:27:01 PM] Carson Daly: i'll go find it in foolz in a second
[3:27:12 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:26 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< once we determine who the Champ and ET Leader are, we will need to have a round of minor changes that allows for changes to the outline while taking those characters into accountah
[3:27:13 PM] Jabberwockxeno: okay
[3:27:17 PM] Jabberwockxeno: that's good enough
[3:27:19 PM] Jabberwockxeno: thanks carson
[3:27:20 PM] empty: Good for those one or twoshitposters
[3:27:26 PM] Carson Daly: so if R/R get put in before that happens, it will make it very convoluted
[3:27:35 PM] Carson Daly: empty, go look through the sruvey results, people bluntly stated as such
[3:27:38 PM] empty: I'm glad we don't conventionally chose procedure based on the comments of shitposters
[3:27:51 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:27 PM] empty:

<<< Good for those one or twoshitpostersEmpty, I want you to trust me, carson, and maruno, Based on what little he just said, that's more then enough to justify how they are doing this
[3:28:22 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Voter bias is a huge concern for plot
[3:28:50 PM] Carson Daly: anyways, empty, whether or not you agree with all of my reasons
[3:28:56 PM] Carson Daly: you still have not provided a single con to doing it this way
[3:28:58 PM] empty: nah, I don't trust any of the three of you as far as I can throw you
[3:28:59 PM] Carson Daly: or a single pro to doing it your way
[3:29:11 PM] Carson Daly: so you know, you can complain all you want, but you need to back up your complaints
[3:29:12 PM] Carson Daly: so do that
[3:29:43 PM] Carson Daly: weird, skype doesn't show me that you're typing anything
[3:29:51 PM] Carson Daly: i thought you had loads of solid reasoning for your complaining
[3:29:57 PM] Carson Daly: you know, because my idea is so terrible
[3:30:03 PM] Carson Daly: and you are so much more attuned to how plot surveying works
[3:30:29 PM] SNS: Oh god chat is salty today
[3:30:41 PM] empty: I don't need to talk to you here. I don't need to provide any further reasoning. I've talked to you in thread as part of dozens of people in thread for months.
[3:30:47 PM] empty: Nothing further is required.
[3:30:48 PM] Carson Daly: link any one
[3:30:50 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:28 PM] empty:

<<< nah, I don't trust any of the three of you as far as I can throw youI don't blame you, but do you trust that I am good at recongizing potential problems in the future and deciding ways to mitigiate them?
[3:30:51 PM] Carson Daly: any single reason
[3:31:40 PM] empty: [3:31 PM] Jabberwockxeno:

<<< [3:28 PM] empty:

<<< nah, I don't trust any of the three of you as far as I can throw you— empty, Today 3:28 PMI don't blame you, but do you trust that I am good at recongizing potential problems in the future and deciding ways to mitigiate them?no
[3:31:53 PM] Jabberwockxeno: sigh
[3:31:54 PM] Jabberwockxeno: well
[3:31:54 PM] empty: [3:30 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< link any one[3:30 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< link any one
[3:32:00 PM] empty: http://boards.4chan.org/vp/thread/21021677/vp-makes-a-game-pokemon-sage#top
[3:32:07 PM] Carson Daly: oh the OP?
[3:32:11 PM] Carson Daly: show me where there's a reason there
[3:32:11 PM] Carson Daly: i don't see it
[3:32:18 PM] Carson Daly: quote it for me
[3:32:36 PM] Maruno: Carson, calm your attitude.
[3:32:50 PM] Maruno: It's possible to be civilised about this.
[3:33:04 PM | Edited 3:33:21 PM] empty: People provide their reasons, you provide your rebuttal. This shows no conclusive value of doing either way. Simply shows you disagree and people disagree with you
[3:33:05 PM] Carson Daly: tell that to empty, who continues to act like he has any ground to stand on
[3:33:14 PM] Carson Daly: i provided a list of pros
[3:33:17 PM] Carson Daly: you didn't dispute any of them
[3:33:21 PM] Carson Daly: you didn't provide any of your own
[3:33:23 PM] *** SNS has changed the conversation topic to "Salt Chat - Half-Assed Thread: http://boards.4chan.org/vp/thread/21021677 | Spreadshit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14I7jNGHDukZmAffQ-3IIBOMLBglo6G5JjqWrt0L1MJc/edit#gid=0" ***
[3:33:44 PM] Carson Daly: that's called a "one-sided argument"
[3:35:36 PM] Dewd: Wanna hear a pizza joke?
[3:35:41 PM] empty: yes
[3:36:12 PM] Sam Spade: inb4 ceepee
[3:36:20 PM | Edited 3:36:36 PM] Dewd: Ok but im warning you, its extra cheesy
[3:36:22 PM] Dewd: : ^)
[3:37:28 PM] SNS: God dammit QB I laughed
[3:37:53 PM] Dewd: im disappointed
[3:39:07 PM] WorldWibe: Goddamnit carlos
[3:41:33 PM] Jabberwockxeno: emoty
[3:41:35 PM] Jabberwockxeno: *empty
[3:41:45 PM] Jabberwockxeno: why do you want to survey ricardo and rival stuff now
[3:41:50 PM] Jabberwockxeno: what advnatages does it have
[3:42:09 PM] Carson Daly: >inb4 i don't need to talk to you, just read the thread
[3:42:24 PM] Dewd:  i don't need to talk to you, just read the thread
[3:43:00 PM | Edited 3:43:09 PM] Jabberwockxeno: The burdern of proof is on you, empty. You and the thread are the ones demanding a change to the esbtalished process, you all have to provide reasons, and thus far, I have read none.

Carson already listed a negative effect of it being done the way you guys want
[3:44:56 PM] EJ: I have an idea
[3:45:09 PM] EJ: Write the r/r and main plot
[3:45:12 PM] EJ: Together
[3:45:13 PM] EJ: Done
[3:45:14 PM] EJ: Ta da
[3:45:17 PM] Jabberwockxeno: EJ
[3:45:18 PM] EJ: Too much work?
[3:45:22 PM] Jabberwockxeno: have you read anything
[3:45:22 PM] EJ: Go fuck yo self
[3:45:23 PM] Jabberwockxeno: at all
[3:45:25 PM] EJ: All in one
[3:45:27 PM] EJ: Boom done
[3:45:31 PM] Jabberwockxeno: Voter bias
[3:45:38 PM] Carson Daly: ej that's the stupidest fucking idea i've ever heard
[3:45:39 PM] EJ: No more bitching about bureaucracy
[3:45:51 PM] EJ: Which you all do
[3:46:04 PM] Carson Daly: "let's take one thing that's super super important, and then take one other thing that will completely dominate every element of the voting process, and slam them together"
[3:46:09 PM] EJ: Trying to micromanage this always leads to arguments
[3:46:16 PM] EJ: Every
[3:46:17 PM] EJ: Single
[3:46:18 PM] EJ: Time
[3:46:27 PM] EJ: And you idiots dont learn from the arguments
[3:46:27 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:46 PM] EJ:

<<< Trying to micromanage this always leads to argumentsArguements are better then voter bias causing shitty fucking things to be voted in
[3:46:29 PM] SNS: What if we just have everyone write a plot
[3:46:34 PM] EJ: ^
[3:46:35 PM] SNS: And we pin them to apples
[3:46:40 PM] SNS: And have a pig decide
[3:46:55 PM] Carson Daly: that would be less biased certainly
[3:47:01 PM] EJ: If shitty things get voted in so fucking be it
[3:47:07 PM] Carson Daly: but we would have to find a way to make sure that every apple was equally delicious
[3:47:13 PM] EJ: It is /vp/ makes a game
[3:47:30 PM] EJ: What /vp/ decides is what happens
[3:47:42 PM] Carson Daly: what /vp/ decided was to submit a bunch of plots that didn't have R/R integral to the main plot
[3:47:49 PM] EJ: You can try to gussy it up and hide bias
[3:47:52 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:47 PM] EJ:

<<< If shitty things get voted in so fucking be itNot so fucking be it.

As a surveyor, it's YOUR job to set surveys up in a way so that people are voting on the quality of their options, and NOTHING else. By doing what you suggest you are preventing that from happening
[3:47:54 PM] EJ: Because you told them not to
[3:48:11 PM] empty: I think having you rival with you fighting the climactic fight is pretty integral
[3:48:15 PM] empty: but that's just imo
[3:48:27 PM] EJ: Question
[3:48:35 PM] EJ: Why isnt this happening in thread
[3:48:43 PM] EJ: Or in plot chat
[3:48:44 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:48 PM] EJ:

<<< Question
Why isnt this happening in threadit is
[3:48:45 PM] empty: because oligarchy
[3:48:47 PM] Jabberwockxeno: read the threAD
[3:48:50 PM] EJ: Ah
[3:48:54 PM] EJ: Oligarchy
[3:48:59 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:48 PM] Jabberwockxeno:

<<< it is[3:48 PM] Jabberwockxeno:

<<< read the threAD
[3:49:02 PM] Carson Daly: "you do all the same stuff, but also sofia stands next to you!"
[3:49:05 PM] Carson Daly: i can see how that's integral
[3:49:17 PM] EJ: Im going to bring up something
[3:50:29 PM] EJ: Everytime people bitch about taking the project off /vp/, people say no. Yet people always point out how everything happens in skype. So if you guys are going to continue to do substantial work in here, why are we on /vp/
[3:51:52 PM] EJ: Because this isn't a chat for working
[3:51:59 PM] EJ: This is a circlejerk quarantine
[3:52:15 PM] EJ: And it seems you've all lost sight of that
[3:52:33 PM] Carson Daly: no, i just prefer to have conversation with people who are held to standards
[3:52:40 PM] Jabberwockxeno: EJ, it's impossible to disscuss survey processes in thead because the thread doesn't understand it
[3:52:44 PM] Carson Daly: i'm having the exact same conversation in the thread
[3:52:50 PM] EJ: Then take it to plot chat
[3:52:51 PM] *** SNS has changed the conversation topic to "Dicks chat: talk about dicks | Half-Assed Thread: http://boards.4chan.org/vp/thread/21021677 | Spreadshit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14I7jNGHDukZmAffQ-3IIBOMLBglo6G5JjqWrt0L1MJc/edit#gid=0" ***
[3:52:54 PM] Carson Daly: but empty is complaining here
[3:52:59 PM] Carson Daly: so i'm trying to answer his questions here
[3:52:59 PM] SNS: Dicks
[3:52:59 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:52 PM] EJ:

<<< Then take it to plot chatNot everybody is in plotchat
[3:53:13 PM] Carson Daly: i'm addressing people in thread with complaints and i'm addressing people here with complaints
[3:53:16 PM] EJ: This isnt plotchat
[3:53:19 PM] EJ: Its dickchat
[3:53:20 PM] Carson Daly: no, it isn't
[3:53:26 PM] Carson Daly: plotchat is for deciding how plot surveying will work
[3:53:33 PM] Carson Daly: main chat is for people to talk about opinions
[3:53:49 PM] EJ: No it's not
[3:53:56 PM] EJ: This is a chat for the namefags to fuck around
[3:54:02 PM] Carson Daly: oh i didn't realize you were in charge here
[3:54:02 PM] EJ: This isnt for work
[3:54:03 PM] Carson Daly: my bad
[3:54:07 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:53 PM] EJ:

<<< No it's notMain chat is for whatever we want it to be.
[3:54:14 PM] EJ: Except work
[3:54:23 PM] EJ: Because we aren't better than the anons
[3:54:40 PM] Carson Daly: anyone who is held accountable for what they say has a more valid opinion than someone who speaks anonymously
[3:54:42 PM] Carson Daly: that's life buddy
[3:54:49 PM] EJ: And that's all good and all
[3:54:55 PM] Dewd: [3:45 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< ej that's the stupidest fucking idea i've ever heardwhat about the dragon e4 being half dragon, half thief, half ricardo's dad?
[3:54:57 PM] Carson Daly: if you are willing to stand for what you believe in, you get better consideration
[3:54:59 PM] EJ: But this is something tjat has come up begore
[3:55:04 PM] EJ: Before
[3:55:11 PM] EJ: You know what
[3:55:14 PM] EJ: Forget it
[3:55:17 PM] Carson Daly: me addressing empty's unfounded complaints here is not preventing anything from happening in thread
[3:55:19 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:54 PM] EJ:

<<< Because we aren't better than the anonsThat's 100% true. This chat is alo 100% open to anybody who wants to be in here.
[3:55:21 PM] EJ: You'll learn
[3:55:53 PM] Dewd: [3:55 PM] Jabberwockxeno:

<<< Because we aren't better than the anonsi am
[3:56:36 PM] Carson Daly: anyways, EJ, as you can see it doesn't really matter because there was no actual discussion going on
[3:56:51 PM] Carson Daly: "i don't agree with you!!!"
"why? here's reasons i think i'm right"
"it doesn't matter why i just don't!!!"
[4:00:12 PM] WorldWibe: http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1411227526855.jpg
[4:01:20 PM] Jabberwockxeno: [3:56 PM] Carson Daly:

<<< "i don't agree with you!!!"
"why? here's reasons i think i'm right"
"it doesn't matter why i just don't!!!"This is exactly what's happening
[4:01:40 PM] Jabberwockxeno: People are saying they disagree, carson gave reasons why it's being dolne this way, then people aren't refuting those reasons or giving their own
[4:01:56 PM] Carson Daly: but majora you forgot about the most important reason
[4:02:06 PM] Carson Daly: "we can't let people who use names get their way or we've failed as a project!"