Untitled

[04:43] <~Avalon> same intolerance we've been against

[04:43] <~Avalon> we've been doin

[04:43] <~Avalon> so it's just like

[04:43] <&Kaitlyn> umm, that word means nothing these days

[04:43] <~Avalon> i want to create that safe haven hugbox

[04:43] <~Avalon> but i can't with this platform

[04:43] <~Avalon> with this foundation

[04:43] <&Kaitlyn> and the difference is

[04:44] <&Kaitlyn> when you say something like that to PVT_Palazzo, we know it's in light spirit. When sinirc crew stirs up shit it's because they just want to cause trouble and make people feel uncomfortable

[04:44] <&Kaitlyn> they have malice behind their words

[04:44] <&Kaitlyn> you don't

[04:44] <&Kaitlyn> there's a huge difference

[04:44] <~Avalon> can't be in the middle over it though

[04:44] <~Avalon> it's too ambiguous

[04:45] <&Kaitlyn> no

[04:45] <&Kaitlyn> not really

[04:45] <&Kaitlyn> not at all

[04:45] <~Avalon> another part of the ideal was free speech

[04:45] <&Kaitlyn> free speech is one thing

[04:45] <&Kaitlyn> but people also have the right not to be constantly bullied

[04:46] <~Avalon> that's true too

[04:46] <&Kaitlyn> you understand, Avalon, that when you have overlapping ideals like this, you can't *always* follow every one of them. It just isn't possible. Sometimes the ideals come into conflict

[04:46] <~Avalon> right

[04:46] <&Kaitlyn> and when that happens, you have to decide which of them is more important

[04:46] <&Kaitlyn> and peoples' right to feel safe

[04:46] <&Kaitlyn> is more important than peoples' right to free speech

[04:46] <&Kaitlyn> it's kind of like the old saying

[04:47] <&Kaitlyn> "your right to throw your fist ends where my nose begins"

[04:48] *** Cybaiotron (~hnnngh@Rizon-1EAED4DE.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) joined

[04:48] <&Kaitlyn> So yes it's okay to have all of those ideals

[04:48] <Cybaiotron> okay what

[04:48] <&Kaitlyn> but the fact is, *sometimes* they will come into conflict

[04:48] <~Avalon> Cybaiotron, i'm discussing the future of the channel

[04:48] <&Kaitlyn> and at that point you have to choose one over the other

[04:48] <~Avalon> with Kaitlyn

[04:48] <~Avalon> cause i kinda ruined it today

[04:48] <&Kaitlyn> and doing so is *not* hypocritical

[04:48] <Cybaiotron> alright :/

[04:48] <Hokey> Cybaiotron, u ding dong

[04:48] <Hokey> where you been

[04:48] <Cybaiotron> everywhere

[04:49] <Cybaiotron> but here

[04:49] <&Kaitlyn> Other galaxies?

[04:49] <~Avalon> Cybaiotron, I want your input on it

[04:49] <&Kaitlyn> Is there life in them?

[04:49] <~Avalon> you've seen SinIRC crue do their thing

[04:49] <Cybaiotron> yeah

[04:49] <~Avalon> and basically

[04:49] <~Avalon> paulson told me what's up

[04:49] <~Avalon> and now i'm shocked

[04:49] <~Avalon> still.

[04:49] <&Kaitlyn> what, specifically did paulson tell you?

[04:49] <~Avalon> he quoted me

[04:50] <~Avalon> i'm paraphrasing here

[04:50] <~Avalon> but basically that #channel3 is a place where we come to speak our minds without fear of retaliation or judgment from others

[04:50] <~Avalon> etc.

[04:51] <&Kaitlyn> speaking your mind is one thing

[04:51] <Cybaiotron> huh

[04:51] <&Kaitlyn> bullying is quite another

[04:51] <~Avalon> yeah

[04:51] <~Avalon> and what of the argument that we need to like

[04:51] <~Avalon> have a "thicker skin" about it

[04:52] <~Avalon> because tbh you can call me Mister Avalon or whatever. i don't personally care. but i remember a time earlier in my transition when i would.

[04:52] <~Avalon> and when using the wrong pronouns intentionally would make me like, cry. a lot.

[04:52] <~Avalon> but i also see where they are getting at

[04:52] <~Avalon> so it's hard

[04:55] <Hokey> vaginas and index fingers

[04:55] <Cybaiotron> well, i don't know... if they want a channel like that, why don't they make one themselves? seeing how you want to change #channel3, that is

[04:55] <&Kaitlyn> Avalon. The claim that we simply need to have a "thicker skin" is ridiculous. That's like punching someone in the gut and telling them it's their fault it hurts because they just need to grow abs of steel.

[04:57] <~Avalon> well like

[04:57] <~Avalon> what hurts me and what hurts you might be two different things

[04:58] <~Avalon> i am willing to take full responsibility for this though

[05:00] <~Avalon> maybe it's just too much change at once for me, Kaitlyn

[05:00] <~Avalon> i mean, #channel3 is changing, my job is changing, my living situation is changing

[05:00] <~Avalon> fuck, my hair is changing

[05:00] <&Kaitlyn> take full responsibility for what?

[05:00] <~Avalon> ruining #channel3

[05:01] <~Avalon> even if the idea to have #channel3 be LGBT friendly was a good one

[05:01] <~Avalon> i handled it poorly

[05:01] <&Kaitlyn> Avalon

[05:01] <&Kaitlyn> it isn't ruined

[05:01] <&Kaitlyn> seriously

[05:01] <&Kaitlyn> it's just changing

[05:01] <~Avalon> it's dead for days

[05:01] <~Avalon> and days

[05:01] <~Avalon> and days

[05:01] * Hokey builds a coffin

[05:01] <~Avalon> and it's my fault

[05:01] <Hokey> WAH

[05:01] <Hokey> WAH

[05:01] <~Avalon> i killed it

[05:02] <Hokey> WAAAHHHHH

[05:02] <~Avalon> oops.

[05:04] <~Avalon> even if the idea was good, the ideal behind #channel3 didn't allow for it and would need to be changed

[05:04] <~Avalon> an ideal that is ...oh a year old now

[05:04] <~Avalon> and it's just being tested now

[05:04] <~Avalon> anyone else have any thoughts as to where you'd like to see this channel go?

[05:05] <~Avalon> cause i'm out of ideas.

[05:10] <Cybaiotron> i, frankly, do not give a shit... the IRC channel isn't supposed to be the whole entire fucking community, just an extension of communication within it

[05:11] <Hokey> thongs and big asses

[05:12] <~Avalon> Cybaiotron, that's a good point too

[05:13] <&Kaitlyn> Avalon

[05:13] <&Kaitlyn> you just have to set priorities on the ideals of the channel

[05:13] <Cybaiotron> nat, i think if you really want to help your website and IRC channel, you should try to get people you haven't known for years to post on it and contribute to the community as a whole and then maybe you should let the actual chan3 community shape the IRC channel for itself... maybe i don't know what i'm talking about, but whatever :I

[05:13] <Hokey> sleeptime

[05:14] <Cybaiotron> otherwise, this is just #chantoplist or some shit

[05:14] <~Avalon> Cybaiotron, good idea

[05:14] <~Avalon> yeah pretty much

[05:14] <&Kaitlyn> the problem was that robertpaulson came in and called you a hypocrite because it was impossible to maintain all of those ideals at once

[05:14] <&Kaitlyn> with them there trying to bully everyone

[05:14] <~Avalon> well

[05:14] <~Avalon> i think i have an actual copy of what i wrote originally

[05:14] <&Kaitlyn> in situations like that you have to make a decision

[05:14] <~Avalon> let me look it up

[05:14] <&Kaitlyn> and by the way, Avalon

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> if someone wants to criticise me, I'm perfectly fine with that and will take no offense to it whatsoever

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> but that isn't what they were doing

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> they were just purely trying to stir up shit

[05:15] <~Avalon> http://chan3.org/news.php?p=rules

[05:15] <~Avalon> exactly what i wrote

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> "Trolling" will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. While it is in everyone's best interest to safeguard the freedom of speech, we must also take into consideration the safety and emotional well-being of our community. Use your own discretion and common sense.

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> there you go

[05:15] <&Kaitlyn> you weren't even breaking your own ideal

[05:16] <&Kaitlyn> you already had this right in there

[05:17] <&Kaitlyn> So RobertPaulson didn't even know what he was talking about when he called you a hypocrite

[05:17] <&Kaitlyn> and you haven't even done anything against this channel's ideals or rules

[05:17] <&Kaitlyn> they are the only ones who have

[05:17] <&Kaitlyn> hence why they were banned

[05:18] <&Kaitlyn> also

[05:18] <&Kaitlyn> >Our well-known "empty banlist" policy is an ideal, not a rule.

[05:18] <&Kaitlyn> again

[05:18] <&Kaitlyn> banning them wasn't even breaking your own rules

[05:18] <&Kaitlyn> >There are times of which a user might be banned for a clear infraction of the channel3 rules. We do not ban simply because we "do not like" someone, or because someone has a certain favor in the community. Clear infractions, however, might result in a temporary or permanent ban from any or all of chan3.org. Ban appeals are to be handled by me.

[05:20] <~Avalon> :|

[05:20] <~Avalon> channel still dyin

[05:20] <&Kaitlyn> 19 people in here who aren't bots

[05:20] <&Kaitlyn> I don't see how that constitutes dying

[05:20] <~Avalon> no one talks

[05:20] <~Avalon> they all talk on sinirc

[05:20] <&Kaitlyn> #hurr has dropped down to that number before and never has it been dying

[05:20] <~Avalon> it's not about the number though

[05:20] <~Avalon> it's the activity

[05:21] <&Kaitlyn> true

[05:21] <&Kaitlyn> But just because the most active people were the sinirc crew doesn't make it a bad thing that they are now gone.

[05:21] <&Kaitlyn> And the reason that everyone else was so inactive for so long

[05:21] <&Kaitlyn> probably had a lot to do with sinirc being here

[05:22] <&Kaitlyn> So all we need to do now is maybe bring some fresh people in, stimulate the conversation a bit and let the channel grow and become active again

[05:23] <~Avalon> well

[05:23] <~Avalon> cybaiotron did have a point

[05:23] <Cybaiotron> oh, did i?

[05:25] <~Avalon> yeah you did

[05:25] <Cybaiotron> well, okay then :I

[05:25] <&Kaitlyn> yes, that we need to bring new people in

[05:25] <&Kaitlyn> people that we haven't all known for a long time

[05:25] <~Avalon> right

[05:25] <~Avalon> but

[05:26] <~Avalon> the community shapes itself

[05:26] <~Avalon> i imposed my will over them

[05:27] <&Kaitlyn> no

[05:27] <&Kaitlyn> you set out a set of rules and ideals

[05:27] <&Kaitlyn> and you followed those

[05:27] <&Kaitlyn> there's nothing wrong with doing that

[05:27] <~Avalon> i miss the days when it was simpler

[05:29] <&Kaitlyn> well it's a lot simpler again now that they are gone

[05:35] *** Robby quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!)

[05:41] <~Avalon> well

[05:41] <~Avalon> all i can do now

[05:41] <~Avalon> is build up, right?

[05:42] <&Kaitlyn> yes

[05:42] <&Kaitlyn> and, this channel isn't dead, or ruined

[05:42] <&Kaitlyn> just changing

[05:42] <&Kaitlyn> and in need of fresh blood