Mai - 09/30/2016
basically here's what i found out
every dungeon has a set pattern on it
you go through specific rooms in the dungeon to reach the gott statue, and receive specific rewards
i dont know if this applies to normal items
but if you find the pattern to get a rare
clearing the dungeon the same way will always give you the rare
Ourico - 09/30/2016
I wonder if it registers each room switch or just the order in which you initially enter them.
Mai - 09/30/2016
i dont know
Ourico - 09/30/2016
For example, would going back and forth between the same two rooms forty times be a different pattern? I'll test this.
Mai - 09/30/2016
neither i know where this data is stored. the area section of the server save file is currently lots of unknowns to us
i also dont know if this applies to dynamic areas or only user generated maps
the theory was proven on an user generated map
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Being one that you create custom via the AS?
Mai - 09/30/2016
just keep it somewhere inside for the time being, i dont feel like spilling all the beans just yet, the game's not far enough in development for that
and yeah, custom means user generated map, not a random one
aka handmade
Mai - 09/30/2016
i have the notes of the people who ran the level 99 server we have back in the retail days and there's quite a pile of all kinds of tricks in those notes
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Do you know how to get large chunks of area experience in one run?
Mai - 09/30/2016
currently, no
Ourico - 09/30/2016
I'll tell you since you told me the pattern thing.
Mai - 09/30/2016
one theory is that the amount of monsters is a key factor
Ourico - 09/30/2016
It is. On Kirigakure, we clear the field 60+ times, then we do the dungeon.
Getting 2000+ experience in a single run.
Plus the other 11 field types get 10% of that
Mai - 09/30/2016
aside that, the mosnter element seems to be a factor deciding on what type gets the exp
oh
that one
i know that one
but it was supposed to be patched
we never tried it with the current AS version
Ourico - 09/30/2016
It works for us.
Mai - 09/30/2016
it's possible that it's still there yeah
Mai - 09/30/2016
there was talk about japaneses abusing that so they updated the areaserver software for it
we have an older version of it, and i tested it on that to work, but we never bothered to test it with the current one and just assumed it was actually patched :P
talk about oobs on dev end lol xD
oops*
Ourico - 09/30/2016
It's not a huge problem though. The people that know about it include me, Joy, Sipher, MPO, fireless and AirGamer. Compared to the total number of players, that's not a lot. But it is still more people than I initially intended.. For the longest time it was just me, Joy and Sipher.
Mai - 09/30/2016
so far the specifics of the server leveling are vague at bbest anyway, only really confirmed factor there is, is the fact that if you repeat areas that appear in your warp history, the exp gain will diminish
well, to our advantage, a lot of people actually believe that it was removed and patched, because we said so
Ourico - 09/30/2016
That's good.
I wonder if the NPC trade items also count as "rare" items that you could get from dungeon patterns.
Ice Bar, Magnolia Miso, etc.
Mai - 09/30/2016
im not sure
as far as i know they shouldbe tradeable fro offline npc's, but taterz can confirm that
he tested the whole trade thing with the npc's on all levels
if my memory serves me right, a lot of those items are obtained the same way they are in imoq
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Yeah their list of offered items changes as you level up. Their "inventory" also resets if you bounce below the threshhold and back to it.
Mai - 09/30/2016
yeah
Ourico - 09/30/2016
However, I don't know where you would get those special trade items in Fragment. In IMOQ, they came from very specific dungeons.. I guess it's possible that the same dungeons would have them in offline mode. Just need to see the Japanese area names.
Because if matching up area words from the original locations offline does not work, then they probably are just rare online items.
Mai - 09/30/2016
could be
again a thing i havent paid much attention to
i know you get some of the shit like kite's kite from the online events
but there's a good pile of those items, no idea for the rest
and there's not enough events to have one for every item, unless the item reward is random
Ourico - 09/30/2016
That's kind of bizarre. Maybe it's something like one key item can be exchanged for another.
How many events are there?
Mai - 09/30/2016
t omy knowledge, 6
Ourico - 09/30/2016
That's four more than I've seen. Exciting.
Mai - 09/30/2016
it'll take a while before you'll see some of them
the helba event for example, is the one that triggers the online phase databugs
it will only happen on an extremely high level server
Ourico - 09/30/2016
I figured a high level server would be one factor. Possibly also the number of area clears and different character IDs which have accessed the server. The plan for now is to continue grinding and see what we find.
Mai - 09/30/2016
any way, here's a little piece from the notes i got my hands into (apologies for google translate :P)
Stamp area was originally another form (1 main road), but since I have been discovered towards the other players, was not out was the order in which they know a different form. This was calculated to be in the type and number of the same enemy and through the road constructed there. And that the conditions can be replicated if the same by this experiment, it was found that rare is determined by the number and type of enemy.
these guys had a server that had almost 100000 visitors and they arranged multiple custom events and documented data bugs and shit
the server it self is level 99 and has hundreds of custom maps
it's about the most epic piece of relics i ever got my hands into as far as reversing this game goes
in any case, they made maps of custom areas and tested them over and over to determine the fact that certtain pattern on a dungeon will always reward you with a specific rare
, it was found that rare is determined by the number and type of enemy.
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Is it a mistake on Google translate's part that it says " rare is determined by the number and type of enemy"?
Mai - 09/30/2016
so basically the pattern you clear the dungeon at
since the gates always have same enemies
i just worded it bad
but yeah
that's why everyone only gets speed charms and potions
Ourico - 09/30/2016
So it definitely works for custom dungeons. Do we know if the pattern also determines rares from randomly generated areas based on server words?
Mai - 09/30/2016
i have no idea as i havent had time to test this basically at all
Mai - 09/30/2016
i was reluctant to make it visible but since the community wanted it
oh well
yeah
but at this rate things are figured out too fast
the game is turning into some clear in one evening ez mode
i particularly enjoyed the idea of having to play months to get to levle 99 :P
Ourico - 09/30/2016
I assume that area level determines the level of the rare you get, if you get one. Or is that not the case?
Mai - 09/30/2016
most likely yes
since you can only define the item type in gott
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Then I think what I'll do is wait until we can generate level 30+ areas, and then make custom dungeons out of those areas.
Mai - 09/30/2016
testing is the best way to get results atm
reversing the algorithms is possible i suppose but that's a whole load of boring work
we never actually inteneded to do that just for the sake of figuring it out
only once we rewrite it :P
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Where do you define the Gott statue item type?
Mai - 09/30/2016
right click the gott in the map editor iirc
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Hell I couldn't even figure out how to delete a room after adding it.
Right clicking seemed only to rotate it 90 degrees.
Mai - 09/30/2016
selct the room, edit gimmick, edit item

Ourico - 09/30/2016
Oh shit, never knew about this. Thanks.
Mai - 09/30/2016
but yeah, the truth is we dont really know much about how shit works, since most of our time has been spent on repairing the outside of the game and rewriting the areaserver software
things like this are cool but unnecessary for gameplay
teh first and foremost goal is and always was to get the game and all it's standard functions up and running in english
after that figure shit out
build8 was just an exception :P
the UI did take a lot more time than we planned it to though
oh also
i dunno how relevant it is but the areas they made for this on the level 99 server were pretty nuts
https://youtu.be/yXVSVxrCVu8?t=1709
YouTube
Muguster
.Hack//Frägment Online - Corrupted Area + Data Bug gameplay


this is a real data bug event that happened on that server
Ourico - 09/30/2016
This event was on a level 99 server?
Mai - 09/30/2016
yup
the area is a custom map made on that server
just look at the monsters on the gates lol
this was one of the early tests i made
most likely the first time a data bug area was accessed ever since the retail server closed
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Really weird to see such low level and high level monsters in the same dungeon.
But it doesn't seem as challenging as it should have been.
Mai - 09/30/2016
the point was more like that every room of the dungeon had gates to give you 4  spectrs
because the server hosts knew that this way they get rares
another piece of secret i've yet to make public
data corruption only happens on custom maps. if a server doesnt have a custom map they will never happen
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Guess we'll have to make some custom maps then.
Mai - 09/30/2016
the server savedata in itself does not hold mapdata for normal maps, it's all dynamically generated
however, it will store all the room data of a custom map
including the header that includes whether or not it's gate hack locked and what virus cores are required to hack it
the corrupted area that was contained within the level 99 server had this, which is the reason i was able to reverse engineer it and implement it into my own server
when i took joy to kill the turtle the other day, this finally happened

i saw it happen on the level 99 server but it took me more than 100 attempts to make it happen on an artificial data corruption
the meaning is that once you have a data corrupted area which is not used, it will spread on the server
another interesting tidbit
while my server level is 28, it hardly contains areas higher than level 20
the corruption changed the custom map it corrupted into level 29 dungeon
i still dont know what triggers it on a server that doesnt have a corrupted area to begin with
that's what i need a high level server for
one that is actually leveled to high level instead of having it's stats hacked
we made hacked level 99 servers
and this never happened
so we're missing something
Mai - 09/30/2016
the server actually tracks a lot of things normal users dont see
it logs numbers of people who use it, and names of people who use areas
for what purpose, no one knows
but why would it log all that for no reason, it's not displayed anywhere either
either way, i'll get back to work, enjoy figuring that shit out :P
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Thanks for the info. I'll digest this all tomorrow.
Mai - 09/30/2016
it's a lot of owrk to test that, atleast keeps your crew busy xD
now im more interested of seeing what are you gonna tell your goons in order to make them run dungeons in specific pattenrs and not question the purpose of it xD
Mai - 09/30/2016
they can complain all they want, if they wanna play on our server they have to deal with me anyway :P
i just find it hilarious that people blame me for being strickt and butthurt and whatnot because of all the bs rules on the channell
if you take a moment to look, you'll notice i never added a single rule there, neither do i care about them
that's all bell's work
people can cheat or try to cheat all they want, i cant stop them no matter what i say really, i always just said that they're alone with their whining afterwards if they do
i have yet to ban anyone from the server, but once i do, that is the end of it :P
and not like cheated chars can go online anyways
my cat couldn't either if i had not whitelisted it :P
Ourico - 09/30/2016
Yeah, I know it's Bell's little um.. disaster I guess.
Mai - 09/30/2016
he's a bit eager
it took him a lot of work to get into the dev team and he's kinda trying much to stay there